Complaint Review: Giove Law Office - Niagara Falls New York

I am not related to any of these Giove's from the Niasgra Falls, NY area. I am Susan Giove, formerly of Neew York City, but NO WAY related to some scam artists named Giove from upstate New York. In fact, they probably have shortened their real Italian name too that of Giove. I am a real Giove with my family having immigrated from Bari, Italy in the early 1900's. I have my good name & reputation to preserve living here in southern Delaware

If you get your facts correct before posting no one will be "mean and rude". If you are not sure, ask a question. Question for you heather: Do you like a "know it all " that is completly wrong? how would you respond to them? RB

Hi Mark, The answer to your question is, no, Giove can not restart the clock once the debt has been "charged off". The "date of last activity" can only be changed by the origional creditor. Have your Ex pay close attention to her bank account balance because they have ALL her account info and they might make a "mistake" and make a withdraw by "accident". Better yet, stop payment on the check by phone and close that account. If they Sue the defense is easy, tell the court the debt is out of statute and provide documentation from the origional creditor. The origional creditor is must provide this info to you if you request it. The key here is you MUST file a rebuttal, doing nothing will result in a default judgment for giove. if this happens then you are in trouble. I hope this helps you, RB

John, I am full aware of the supply and demand theory and its application to prices. And, I am college educated and have run big business. Big business such as insurance, oil, credit cards etc.. do not truly operate on this principle. They operate on a predetermined profit margin. They will always make at least this predetermined amount of desired profit. That is why we are paying record prices for gas right now. There is NO SHORTAGE in reality. There is no reason for $3+ for a gallon of gas other than a predetermined amount of profit that these companies decided on. Exxon-Mobil posted record profits last quarter and the executive compensation when broken down was just over $190,000 a DAY. WHO NEEDS to be paid that much? Those huge compensation packages are the reason for $3+ a gallon. As far as insurance, I just dropped the company I had for 17 years as they more than doubled my premiums upon renewal. I have no claims in the last 5 years, and no tickets or chargeable accidents ever. I went to another insurance company the same day, and got better coverage for less than I was initially paying the original company before the increase. This has nothing to do with supply and demand, or claims. it has to do with greed and that predetermined amount of profit desired. Credit card companies operate exactly the same way. They have to meet a predetermined profit margin. That is how the real world works in big business.

Wow, I thought the only crooks were the companies ripping people off. Maybe the credit card companies need a Ripoff Report of their own (Oh, I guess they do- they call them call credit reports. Unfortunately credit reports probably don't distinguish between people unable to pay, and people unwilling to pay.) Let's look at one person's rationalization of his theivery (besides the fact that the credit card companies weren't very nice to him.) "(It's ) just like insurance, if no one ever had an accident, and everyone carried insurance. The rates would still be the same. It is called PROFIT. Same as credit card interest and fees. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with losses. It has to do with greed." So, I'm no Harvard graduate. But even a high school education tells me about supply & demand: Let's say that the number/cost of accidents dropped by 90%. Would rates stay the same, or down? Since the insurance companies would be paying only 10% of the claims they used to, wouldn't those insurance companies then compete to get as much as business as they could? Wouldn't this lead to lower rates? Of course it would! That's why people with sports cars pay higher insurance premiums, even if their car is worth less than the neighbor's 4-door!

Aafes, First, I need to ask is that your real name or are you an employee of Aafes? Anyway... Exerpt from my post: "....Until the 14th year when AMEX finally adopted the policy. I had three accounts with them in good standing, the oldest being 12 years and the newest almost 4 years. I was in the middle of a move when they decided to verify and said they couldn't reach me. They cancelled all cards not caring that I had all of my moving arrangements confirmed with AMEX." Your reply: This stinks of a lie. If you truly had your moving arrangements confirmed, they could have easily reached you. It sounds like you were using their money to pay for a move you could not truly afford, they noted large amounts of activity on your account and tried to reach you suspecting fraud - when they could not reach you the inactivated your cards to protect you. Funny how even with the exorbitant interest rate robbery that you say goes on with creditors that as late as 4 years earlier you had once again accepted a new credit line from them. MY ANSWER: You should stick to your NIGHT job on the streetcorner and quit trying to be a detective..FYI...AMEX and BofA were the only 2 cards I kept when I walked away in 2002, and were in perfect standing..My payments were paid ahead, and my AMEX gold had a positive balance reflecting a prepayment for estimated moving expenses...AND the one that was 4 years old was a Corporate Optima card for my business. AND they had a good cell#, efax# and email address for me, as well as a forwarding address I provided. I was taking my 1 month vacation enroute my move. There were no suspicious charges, and my charging pattern was approx what it was every month. Excerpt from my post: "....They left me stranded. I had to make all new arrangements and exhaust my cash that I wanted to save.".. Your reply: .. Oh yes, they left you by the side of the road with all your furniture and no hope. Oh what a shame that you had to pay for your move with YOUR MONEY. They should be so, so ashamed of that. With the amount of credit you appeared to have with them, it sounds like it was high time you paid for something with cash. MY ANSWER: I had plenty of cash which I was spending and had a reserve for my estimated cost of move in on my new home and all the related expenses. I used AMEX for almost everything only due to the good summaries and end of year reports. It made tax time easy. AND 2 of the cards had NO CREDIT LIMIT. The other one ad a $21k limit. I had about $4k charged on it. Not that I really had to explain anything to anyone like you, but your post was so smug and arrogant, I had to set you straight. Please answer my question about the name you use here. Does that represent your career path or were you born in the stockroom of the Base Exchange? [Aafes stands for Army and Air Force Exchange Service].

Ok, you really need to chill. Thank you for correcting me, this is just what I had heard. However, there was no need to be mean and rude. All anyone had to say was please look up your states rules and I would have been good. But everyone is so rude on this website, and the sad thing there was no need for it.

FYI...A certain amount of bad debt is already figured into the cost of unsecured credit. It makes no difference if anyone actually defaults. We are already paying for it. Just like insurance. -You pay for it whether you ever use it or not. -Your premiums reflect all of the people who do not have it, but still drive. And, if no one ever had an accident, and everyone carried insurance..the rates would still be the same. It is called PROFIT. Same as credit card interest and fees. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with losses. it has to do with greed. Just like $3/gallon gasoline.. No shortage...But still $3...+++

FYI...A certain amount of bad debt is already figured into the cost of unsecured credit. It makes no difference if anyone actually defaults. We are already paying for it. Just like insurance. -You pay for it whether you ever use it or not. -Your premiums reflect all of the people who do not have it, but still drive. And, if no one ever had an accident, and everyone carried insurance..the rates would still be the same. It is called PROFIT. Same as credit card interest and fees. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with losses. it has to do with greed. Just like $3/gallon gasoline.. No shortage...But still $3...+++

My ex wife was contacted by Giove and unfortunately she paid 100 check by phone. This for a deliquent accout dating back to 1999 that Suncoast Recovery ( affiliated with Giove) bought in 2005. They contacted by Ex this week. Question: Since she paid the 100, does that start the statute of limitations again, because the collectin manager said he was going to sue. In NC, the SOL is 3 years.

Heather, Statute of Limitations has absolutely nothing to do with credit reporting. Absolutely NOTHING! Statute of Limitations on a debt refers to the period of time that each state allows a creditor or debt buyer to sue and actually win and get a judgement and/or garnishment. SOL varies from state to state. SOL DOES NOT start over each time a debt is sold. Negative reporting DOES NOT start over when a debt is sold. Negative reporting with the exception of bankruptcy is 7 years from last ACTIVITY. That means 1st major delinquency or date of charge off. A debt can change hands 100 times, but the 7 years still goes back to the delinquency with the original creditor. It is ILLEGAL to in any way alter this date. I suggest you get your facts straight before posting advice here. You should go to the FTC website and print out the FCRA and the FDCPA.

"IF everyone paid of all unsecured credit as agreed, we would STILL pay the high fees and interest we do now. This is because these creditors are greedy and will charge whatever the market will bear." - True, the creditors would then charge only what the market will bear - therein lies the rub. Without hundreds of millions in bad debt to write off the market would simply not bear the rates it does now. Additionally if everyone paid off their credit and kept their word, firms like Giove would not exist. "Responsibility goes BOTH ways. Creditors who offer unsecured credit MUST be responsible in lending practices BEFORE they can expect the consumer to be responsible." True. HOwever responsibility INCLUDES being financially responsible as individual. Few things should be purchased on credit cards if they cannot be paid off in a relatively short time period. As stated before there is too much "instant gratification" in our society. Witness this by seeing people paying for purchases, often under $20.00 with their credit cards, and often these purchases are fast food, etc. Hmmm...I wonder how our entire society survived all those years without major credit cards.? "In my 14+ years of spotless credit NOT ONCE did any creditor EVER re-verify creditworthiness or ability to pay. My income was never verified. my assets were never verified." Bullhockey. Just because they did not as you personally for direct information does not mean they did not reverify the information. Often information is reverified through information provided whey you apply for new credit or through employer verification. If you own a home, car or business your "assets" are a matter of public record. As for your abiility to pay, if you made timely, consistent payment you demonstrated that on your own. So, for 14 years these companies, in good faith let you use their money, now you advocate walking away and leaving them holding the bag. "Until the 14th year when AMEX finally adopted the policy. I had three accounts with them in good standing, the oldest being 12 years and the newest almost 4 years. I was in the middle of a move when they decided to verify and said they couldn't reach me. They cancelled all cards not caring that I had all of my moving arrangements confirmed with AMEX." This stinks of a lie. If you truly had your moving arrangements confirmed, they could have easily reached you. It sounds like you were using their money to pay for a move you could not truly afford, they noted large amounts of activity on your account and tried to reach you suspecting fraud - when they could not reach you the inactivated your cards to protect you. Funny how even with the exorbitant interest rate robbery that you say goes on with creditors that as late as 4 years earlier you had once again accepted a new credit line from them. "They left me stranded. I had to make all new arrangements and exhaust my cash that I wanted to save." Oh yes, they left you by the side of the road with all your furniture and no hope. Oh what a shame that you had to pay for your move with YOUR MONEY. They should be so, so ashamed of that. With the amount of credit you appeared to have with them, it sounds like it was high time you paid for something with cash. "These big credit card companies are too arrogant and powerful. We need to bring them down a few notches. The only way to do this is for more to do what I did." Yes, I am certain that all the major card companies just shake at the thought of your name. You really taught them a lesson. No, you didn't. All you managed to do was have your debt written off, and the cost of doing so passed on the those of us who actually pay our bills. "Unsecured credit hurts our economy and is a major factor in inflation." No, what hurts our economy is the fact that people no longer save. If people were financially responsible, did not use credit to buy their toys, vacations etc and pay these debts off LONG TERM we would not be in this situation. People used to save for vacations, furniture, Christmas etc. Now it all goes on the card. Very few Americans save any of their income, that is where our problem comes in. I don't support the attitude of collection agencies, collection attorneys or the credit reporting agencies - however - these businesses would have few clients if people didn't use credit like it was water and then decide to walk away without paying. Say what you want about me, but if you are among those who advocate walking away you are little more than a thief. A hundred years or so ago you would have been in a debtor's prison, and in my opinion if you have walked away from more than a few hundred dollars you still belong there - grand theft. Funny, if I borrowed $5,000.00 from you and paid for a few months and then told you to go screw yourself, you would be furious and would go straight to law enforcement or the courts. If it is YOUR money, it is not okay, but when it belongs to the stockholders of the bank or credit card company, it seems to be okay. "Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, politicians. All three need supervision." - d**k Armey, House Majority Leader (1995-2003).

PA-Heather, I Believe you should GET YOUR Facts Straight! Collection companies are not Gods of debt who can resurect old Dead debts! Read what D and TX-Heather had to say. If you don't believe them google "debt statute of limitations" and I'll bet you learn something. D, those people in europe put people with debts in prison!

PA-Heather, I Believe you should GET YOUR Facts Straight! Collection companies are not Gods of debt who can resurect old Dead debts! Read what D and TX-Heather had to say. If you don't believe them google "debt statute of limitations" and I'll bet you learn something. D, those people in europe put people with debts in prison!

PA-Heather, I Believe you should GET YOUR Facts Straight! Collection companies are not Gods of debt who can resurect old Dead debts! Read what D and TX-Heather had to say. If you don't believe them google "debt statute of limitations" and I'll bet you learn something. D, those people in europe put people with debts in prison!

PA-Heather, I Believe you should GET YOUR Facts Straight! Collection companies are not Gods of debt who can resurect old Dead debts! Read what D and TX-Heather had to say. If you don't believe them google "debt statute of limitations" and I'll bet you learn something. D, those people in europe put people with debts in prison!

I was referring to "re-aging" an account. Probably didn't say that quite clear enuff. So sue me :)~

I was referring to "re-aging" an account. Probably didn't say that quite clear enuff. So sue me :)~

I was referring to "re-aging" an account. Probably didn't say that quite clear enuff. So sue me :)~

I was referring to "re-aging" an account. Probably didn't say that quite clear enuff. So sue me :)~

Heather: You are completely wrong (and D, you are slightly incorrect, although you meant well). Per the FCRA, section 623a(5), the seven year reporting period is based on the date of FIRST DELINQUENCY, meaning the date you first missed a payment. All collection accounts must mirror the DOFD on the original account as the starting date for reporting - no other date can be used or else it is considered reaging the debt (which is illegal). The only thing that can restart a timeclock (for credit reporting purposes) is if you pay off the entire delinquent balance, then start a brand new delinquency on the account sometime in the future (which is impossible to do on a closed collection account). I think D might be confusing restarting the reporting timeclock with re-affirming the debt (which can restart the timeclock for lawsuits). And even the lawsuit timeclock might not restart if you make a payment - you'd have to check your state laws on the statute of limitations for judgements on consumer debt and see what qualifies (full payment, partial payment or admitting the debt). Hope this helps.

Let me correct my grammar. "Statute of Limitations" (sheepish grin)

You're wrong, Heather. Debt Collections agencies cannot re-start the stature of limitations clocks unless you give them money. The original date an item was placed for collections is the start of the stature of limitations clock, and the account can be sold to ten thousand other companies, but the clock keeps running from the original date and cannot be restarted unless you actually give them some money.

Amen Bob! I'm right there with ya, Brutha! We all make mistakes in our lives. I've never met a human being that hasn't made a mistake or two somewhere along the road of life. That dude from Europe assumes we're all a bunch of low lifes and bases his knee-jerk reaction on that. No one here advocates running up debt with the intention of running away from it. We all should pay our debts, unless circumstances make it impossible. These knee cap busting organizations like Giove should be closed down and their owners put in gulag for their crimes. Don't give these companies a DIME!! Especially places like Giove!

Aafes, You really need to study the economics of unsecured lending. Here are the facts. 1). IF everyone paid of all unsecured credit as agreed, we would STILL pay the high fees and interest we do now. This is because these creditors are greedy and will charge whatever the market will bear. 2). Responsibility goes BOTH ways. Creditors who offer unsecured credit MUST be responsible in lending practices BEFORE they can expect the consumer to be responsible. In my 14+ years of spotless credit NOT ONCE did any creditor EVER re-verify creditworthiness or ability to pay. My income was never verified. my assets were never verified. Until the 14th year when AMEX finally adopted the policy. I had three accounts with them in good standing, the oldest being 12 years and the newest almost 4 years. I was in the middle of a move when they decided to verify and said they couldn't reach me. They cancelled all cards not caring that I had all of my moving arrangements confirmed with AMEX. They left me stranded. I had to make all new arrangements and exhaust my cash that I wanted to save. These big credit card companies are too arrogant and powerful. We need to bring them down a few notches. The only way to do this is for more to do what I did. Unsecured credit hurts our economy and is a major factor in inflation.

The truth is that collection agencies and other companies that buy old debt can actually renew the stauates on limitations buy buying the debt. that is how companies can renew on your credit. i believe that you should either pay your debt that you do admit that u owe, or hope that they dont sell the debt cause as long as the collection agency has your debt, they can keep it on your credit.

So what are you trying to say afres? Is this an attempt to shame us? or are you trying to prove to yourself that you are better than some people? I have news for you, YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE THAT POSTED HERE except for tom! YOU ARE A SAD EXAMPLE OF A HUMAN JUST LIKE GIOVE AND COMPANY! I'm the first to admit that I made some mistakes TEN (10) years ago, so is it ok for these SCUM SUCKING BOTTOM FEEDERS to continue to harass me and my wife who was not around then? Is it ok for them to make threats to file criminal charges against us? The answer alres is NO, just because they bought some old debts does not give them the right to harass people. OK I screwed up 10 years ago does that mean I should pay giove? HELL NO, it will not do me or my credit any good to pay them! Furthermore afres, giove VIOLATED THE LAW by reporting me to the credit companies for something that is out of statute! To everyone who had to deal with these SCUM SUCKING BOTTOM FEEDERS, check your credit report NOW! If you see something from giove on it contact me and I will let you know how to join a class action law suit that will slow the SCUM SUCKING BOTTOM FEEDERS at giove down, if there are enough people they might set shut down. What would you do if you were in this situation afres? Would you pay off giove if you knew it would do NOTHING to clear the matter up? Would you just Bend Over and Take It afres? Are YOU THAT STUPID? DO NOT PAY GIOVE, YOU NEED THE MONEY MORE THAN THEY DO !

While I agree that debt collectors are often abusive, misleading and typically corrupt as they work almost solely on a commission basis, this does not justify anyone walking away from a debt. Just WHO do you think pays for bad debts that are never collected. We do, the consumer, in the form of higher prices, increased interest rates, and in our taxes - a good deal of this debt is simply written off at some point. It is typical for a lender to sell a debt to a third party collector for pennies on the dollar. The proceeds from the sale are posted to service the debt, the remainder is written off on business taxes. It used to mean something for a man to "give his word" whether by signature or simple handshake. Attitudes like those displayed by some in this post are why this is no longer the norm - there is no honor remaining. If you borrowed money or charged credit cards and refuse to pay then attempt to hide behind the statute of lmitations - in no uncertain terms you have stolen. Despite the fact you may have seen interest rate increases to what you consider extremes, I would have NO DOUBT the conditions under which the increases were made were spelled out in a cardholder agreement and/or in a subsequent mailing from the creditor. In any event, utilizing credit cards as "financial tools" stinks of unfettered stupidity. This, next to payday lending, has to be one of the most asinine methods of financing I have ever heard. This all, of course, is the cost of EASY CREDIT in our society. I was raised in a time in which obtaining high cost items meant working hard and saving for a long time. With the exception of a home or car I never witnessed my parents or their friends buy anything on credit. Now we have instant gratification - take it home before you pay for it. Quite often the purchase is not used after several weeks. No appreciation is due for something you haven't really worked for or earned. Thus, it has become easy to "walk away and never pay". Those of you who subscribe to this method are sad, sad examples of honorable citizens.

Go to Bud Hibbs website - BudHibbs.com and see what info he has on Giove. There's plenty of info on that bottom feeding group of thugs, enough to make you wanna puke!

Go to Bud Hibbs website - BudHibbs.com and see what info he has on Giove. There's plenty of info on that bottom feeding group of thugs, enough to make you wanna puke!

Look tom, you got things ALL WRONG. No-One here was "braging" about not paying their debts. We are informing people that giove / lenahan collectors are scumbags that use illegal strong arm tactics to collect out of statute debts. End Of Story. btw I'm glad you are gettting "sick to your stomach", I do hope it gets worse.

bob, if its out of stat...well then your right...way to go on not paying your bills back so long that its no longer in stat! GOOD JOB! and just so you guys know GIOVE filed over 4000 law suits already...and have plans in the next year to file that many a month....uh oh....AND GUESS WHAT ELSE!! not all the paper bought is out of stat...i love that you guys are getting one side of the story...the story of "the poor ol' debter" what about the people who run up credit and not pay it back for a living, what about the people that do not pay it back because they never had the money to in FIRST place...do everyone a favor, QUIT BRAGGING ABOUT NOT PAYING YOUR BILLS! it makes me sick to my stomach and it should the rest of the country! Im sorry for those that came across a bad time in their lives and COULD NOT pay thier bills..>BUT thats just a small percentage....the rest well just BAD JUDGEMENT, POOR MONEY MANAGMENT, AND NOT READING THE CONTRACT....to you people i say PAY UP !!!

I was a perfect customer for over 14 years. My payment record was perfect. Not 1 late pay in 14 years. AND, I was not referring to "teaser rates" being raised to higher ones or anything like that. What they did to me was NOT spelled out in ANY agreement. I went from rates of 5-9% to rates of 18-22% overnight! No VALID justification at all. I was not one to pay minimums ever. I made good money and used these cards as a financial tool. I never "borrowed" at 18-22% so why should I be raped like that? They figure they had me over a barrel. I did the only thing I could do after trying everything I could to get it resolved the right way. They truly gave me a take it or leave it attitude, so given 2 choices, I LEFT IT! They made thier own bed. And today, I have everything I need so I could care less about my credit being ruined for a short time. It was well worth it and I would do it again. If credit card companies would not be so greedy and arrogant, they would not have to incur losses like this. I will do everything I can to totally destroy both the unsecured credit industry and the third party collections and debt buying industry. There is no such thing as a good debt collector. You are all bottomfeeding lowlife scumbags and you all cross the line on legality. This world would be alot better off if we suddenly lost half of our lawyers and debt collectors! Giove is on, and has been on the top 10 worst in the nation debt collectors on BudHibbs com. People need to read this stuff and pass it on to everyone they know. Word of mouth is very powerful! Don't let these creeps get away with this crap!

OK, so maybe the comparison is a bit of a stretch, so what! What does my financial situation have to do with ANYTHING, IT"S NONE OF YOUR OR ANYONE ELSES BUSINESS. So What if I'm dead broke and living under a bridge? That does not make it ok for the Scum Bags from Giove to harass me. As Far as being worried goes, I'm not. YOU and your TURD Eating friends at Giove Can't Do Anything to me! IT"S AN OUT OF STATUTE DEBT. The Old " You have a 10,000 debt and if we sue we will sue for 20,000, but we will settle for 2,000 is NOT working! IT"S BS and EVERYONE Giove is calling should know this ! Look how the list of reports about Giove is growing! Tom, HAVE A CRAPPY DAY!

I can not believe you are comparing yourself to Donald Trump. Then difference is Donald has LOTS of assests to sell off. There is a big difference between being cash broke, and being dead broke. You my friend are dead broke. Otherwise you not be so worried about someone calling you to collect on a debt you owe for a couple thousand dollars. (if not less) And by the way just like your debts, im not going anywhere.

Dear Tom DO US ALL A FAVOR ...... GET BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE YA SCUM BAG TROLL. WE KNOW YOU GAME AND WE ARE GOING TO WIN. SO WHAT, I HAD A DEBT, SO DOES DONALD TRUMP, HE HAS MADE A CAREER OUT OF BEING IN DEBT. BTW. how's the weather in ny these days have a crappy day ya IDIOT !

I was only stating that these terms and rate hikes are all in your fine print and terms of service of your line of credit. Are they right in doing so...NO, but that is the company YOU choose to deal with, and you now you must sleep in the bed you made. Thats all im saying quit whinning about the mistakes you made by not covering your own bases. Good lesson learned DONT BORROW!

I was only stating that these terms and rate hikes are all in your fine print and terms of service of your line of credit. Are they right in doing so...NO, but that is the company YOU choose to deal with, and you now you must sleep in the bed you made. Thats all im saying quit whinning about the mistakes you made by not covering your own bases. Good lesson learned DONT BORROW!

I was only stating that these terms and rate hikes are all in your fine print and terms of service of your line of credit. Are they right in doing so...NO, but that is the company YOU choose to deal with, and you now you must sleep in the bed you made. Thats all im saying quit whinning about the mistakes you made by not covering your own bases. Good lesson learned DONT BORROW!

I was only stating that these terms and rate hikes are all in your fine print and terms of service of your line of credit. Are they right in doing so...NO, but that is the company YOU choose to deal with, and you now you must sleep in the bed you made. Thats all im saying quit whinning about the mistakes you made by not covering your own bases. Good lesson learned DONT BORROW!

i clearly stated in my first response that if it was out of stat, then i would understand not paying...but i guess the real "IDIOT" is the one whom did not pay their bill when it was in stat. My whole point to my response was your excitment of not paying your bill...you seem so excited that you got out of paying your bill..it just urked me. Sorry if it offended you....just speakig my mind, and i respect your point of view as i would hope you do mine...but it doesnt seem you do...which brings us full circle to the "idiot" comment again...i guess anyone reading this can judge who the real idiot is.

You are an idiot Tom. Steve clearly said he was paying his bills on time, until they raised his rates... This is happening all too often, people with perfect credit are being scammed by the CC companies because they have 'the right'. That's bullshit. Now, people are being penalized for having GOOD CREDIT. And as far as the OP goes, the debt was old. I was contacted by a junk-debt-buyer for a 13 year old debt for a card I never had. I suppose your solution to this is to pay that too?? Moron. I had a 780 FICA score, I decided to pay off my credit cards and cut them up. Guess what jackass? My score dropped 100 POINTS!! Why? Because I CANCELLED THE CARDS. When speaking to the Credit Bureaus, they say that because I CANCELLED the card, it is no LONGER USED for credit verification. Try and explain that to me you idiot. I spent years building a good credit standing. I will buy this guy's book. I'm tired of working my a*s off for nothing.

The debt is out of statue but they continue to attempt to collect. Where I come from that is a SCAM ! Go on defending the SCUMBAG BOTTOM FEEDERS, it proves that you are an IDIOT.

I dont know what to say. I would never read your book on how you became a prof. thief. This is exactly the thing i am speaking of. If they raised your rates or not, you knew of the situation you were getting your self into by borrowing the money in the first place. I feel no mercy for you because you have a personal vendetta against an industry that you feel has done "you" wrong. But they sure were doing "you" right when you wanted to borrow the money. Way to go on being a deadbeat. And i guess they saw you coming a mile a way when they made you no longer a tier 1, because you did exactly what they assumed you would do. So i guess their system worked. Becasue they I.D'd the typer of person you were, and what you were capable of doing, before you even knew what your going to do. AND THEN YOU DID IT! The only reason i would read your book is to figure out how to borrow money from someone close to you....and then never pay them back. I am willing to bet you would not take that to kindly and nor should you. And i am willing to bet the money you took and have not paid back, they the (banks, company ect. ect. ) did not take it to kindly also.

Tom, I had spotless credit for 14 years with over 35 accounts. I had a 735 credit score. Many of my creditors got greedy and decided to keep pumping my rates. I called and asked why. I was told I carried too much debt, so I was no longer a tier 1 borrower. I got a take it or leave it attitude from 9 out of 10, and guess what? I left it. I walke away from $170,000 in unsecured or undersecured debt. That was in Oct. 2002. Guess what? They still haven't collected. They never will. The 3 who didn't jack me and give me a take it or leave it attitude have been paid on time every month. 2 paid off and closed, and Bank of America still current, still with the same rate and credit limit. I am writing a book titled "Forget Bankruptcy, Just walk away". It will be a how to manual that will crush the banking industry, and will teach a debtor in any situation how to be invisible and untouchable. How to stop debt collectors cold, and how to get paid when the collector violates the law. I'm out for payback.

Tom, I had spotless credit for 14 years with over 35 accounts. I had a 735 credit score. Many of my creditors got greedy and decided to keep pumping my rates. I called and asked why. I was told I carried too much debt, so I was no longer a tier 1 borrower. I got a take it or leave it attitude from 9 out of 10, and guess what? I left it. I walke away from $170,000 in unsecured or undersecured debt. That was in Oct. 2002. Guess what? They still haven't collected. They never will. The 3 who didn't jack me and give me a take it or leave it attitude have been paid on time every month. 2 paid off and closed, and Bank of America still current, still with the same rate and credit limit. I am writing a book titled "Forget Bankruptcy, Just walk away". It will be a how to manual that will crush the banking industry, and will teach a debtor in any situation how to be invisible and untouchable. How to stop debt collectors cold, and how to get paid when the collector violates the law. I'm out for payback.

Tom, I had spotless credit for 14 years with over 35 accounts. I had a 735 credit score. Many of my creditors got greedy and decided to keep pumping my rates. I called and asked why. I was told I carried too much debt, so I was no longer a tier 1 borrower. I got a take it or leave it attitude from 9 out of 10, and guess what? I left it. I walke away from $170,000 in unsecured or undersecured debt. That was in Oct. 2002. Guess what? They still haven't collected. They never will. The 3 who didn't jack me and give me a take it or leave it attitude have been paid on time every month. 2 paid off and closed, and Bank of America still current, still with the same rate and credit limit. I am writing a book titled "Forget Bankruptcy, Just walk away". It will be a how to manual that will crush the banking industry, and will teach a debtor in any situation how to be invisible and untouchable. How to stop debt collectors cold, and how to get paid when the collector violates the law. I'm out for payback.

Tom, I had spotless credit for 14 years with over 35 accounts. I had a 735 credit score. Many of my creditors got greedy and decided to keep pumping my rates. I called and asked why. I was told I carried too much debt, so I was no longer a tier 1 borrower. I got a take it or leave it attitude from 9 out of 10, and guess what? I left it. I walke away from $170,000 in unsecured or undersecured debt. That was in Oct. 2002. Guess what? They still haven't collected. They never will. The 3 who didn't jack me and give me a take it or leave it attitude have been paid on time every month. 2 paid off and closed, and Bank of America still current, still with the same rate and credit limit. I am writing a book titled "Forget Bankruptcy, Just walk away". It will be a how to manual that will crush the banking industry, and will teach a debtor in any situation how to be invisible and untouchable. How to stop debt collectors cold, and how to get paid when the collector violates the law. I'm out for payback.

John, I really like your points, i just want the proof of that, i have looked everywhere and have not seen any stats to match yours. And you know the old saying "96% of all stats are made up on the spot" lol, (not saying your doing such) i just want to see them...let me explain why, in my weekly work, i run into a lot more then 4% of people who dont want to pay, as a matter of fact they are people that took out lines of credit when they were on disability, they were getting public assistance, they took it out in there kids name, ex spouses ect ect ect. Im sure as you know the list goes on and on and on. For my personal self would love to see those stats, can you provide a link where you saw this. I appreciate your responses, and am really enjoying the discussion here (just wanted to throw that last part in)...look forward to your response.

Tom, The American Collectors Association has a wealth of information on statistics. Don't get confused by recovery rates at 96%, that usually won't happen. Simply put, you were discussing moral issues. 96% of debtors would dpay the debt if "they had the means". That suggests that cataclysmic events occured, health problems, divorce, loss of job that keep them from honoring their committment. As a bill collector you have to find ways around the problem where as others choose to make it worst. Tom our words are either tools or weapons to be used for or against us. Debtors put their heads in the sand because they don't know what to say, they are embarassed and ashamed. Collectors can make it worst. I've always said there is never one bill collector calling, there's 20. What you going to say to set yourself apart? There's 10" of money and 2' of bills. Who is the 10" inches going to go to? Not a moral issue, just bad busines, bad planning and bad luck. Understanding the nature of the debtors problems and the industry has allowed me to make 6 figure a year incomes for a while now while no...I repeat no complaints. Deadbeat is a term best used for the 4% that never had the intent to pay. It is unprofitable to spend time on those issues. Most of the people you deal with in society have been raised with a Judeo/Christian upbringing. Most people you run in to are honest aren't they? Debtors are your neighbors and your family and you. Now don't waste time on the 4%. Move on to those that want to pay, separate yourself from the other 19 that are calling by educating yourself about this industry and the debtor you are dealing with. Do it the right way and prosper. The snakes and dinasours of the industry will crawl off to the tar pits and vanish.

nice response john. You bring up a lot of good points. But where are you getting those stats from i am intrested in seeing them for myself. I guess it just frustrates me that a collection agency is called a "SCAM" because of one or a few ect ect persons dealing that company went sour. I am in collection and i really strive to do things the right way. I always offer payment plans to fit someones income, but i feel there are a lot more debters out there that live to find these loop holes, and get out of paying the debt because they believe there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Thats the only reason i question the percentages you brought up. Being that i am on the front line and hear a lot more the 4% tell me they will never pay. Thanks again John for the reponse.

Tom Tomthe answer to your comment is simple. Federal and state law regulates Bill collectors. Contractual law regulates consumers. There is not a moral turpitude clause in these contracts so why address it? On the other hand, owners of collection agencies and attorneys have moral turpitude clauses in their licensing, I know because I have owned collection agencies and have gone through the licensing process that includes FBI back ground checks. It seems fair to address that issue with them. Further Tom there is wording in the FDCPA least sophisticated consumer. What that means is that not everyone has benefit of understanding laws or contracts. That doesn't make them dishonest, just unsophisticated, again not a moral issue. Tom as a bill collector you should know that are far too many collection agencies that collect the bill then don't remit back to the client. You didn't address that. Nor did you mention that debt buyers have a nasty habit of reporting the date of the debt to the credit bureaus from the date they actually bought the debt thus artificially lengthening the statutes of limitations. The Federal Trade Commission has much to say about this and my thoughts on the subject are this. The national statistics and my experience say that 96% or debtors never had the intent to get in the fix they are in. They lose sleep at night and are embarrassed and ashamed. If provided with an opportunity to pay a legitimate debt, they will. The 4% never intended to and you are wasting your time with them. Some collection agencies/attorneys use threats to motivate people to pay and it works and so long as you intend to carry out the lawful threat IE sue, you're ok. Your obligation is to your client and the licensing authorities. People that handle money have a moral obligation, you for example Tom. As a collector you are much better off beating your chest in indignation over what your brothers and sisters in the industry are doing. And in addition try to understand the nature or what it is you do for a living and you will make lots of legitimate money like I have with no compliance issues out there.

Your right, if the debt is out of statue, you could not pay back what is rightfully owed. I dont understand why people use the law and loop holes not to pay back what they have borrowed. What are you teaching the youth. That it is o.k. to borrow and if you can get away without paying for a couple of years then you dont have to pay it back? What happened to doing the "right thing" .....I dont get it...i read all these forums how the collector is the bad guy, but not one states how the real bad guy is the one who borrowed the money and found the loop hole on how not to pay it back....*sigh*

Your right, if the debt is out of statue, you could not pay back what is rightfully owed. I dont understand why people use the law and loop holes not to pay back what they have borrowed. What are you teaching the youth. That it is o.k. to borrow and if you can get away without paying for a couple of years then you dont have to pay it back? What happened to doing the "right thing" .....I dont get it...i read all these forums how the collector is the bad guy, but not one states how the real bad guy is the one who borrowed the money and found the loop hole on how not to pay it back....*sigh*

Your right, if the debt is out of statue, you could not pay back what is rightfully owed. I dont understand why people use the law and loop holes not to pay back what they have borrowed. What are you teaching the youth. That it is o.k. to borrow and if you can get away without paying for a couple of years then you dont have to pay it back? What happened to doing the "right thing" .....I dont get it...i read all these forums how the collector is the bad guy, but not one states how the real bad guy is the one who borrowed the money and found the loop hole on how not to pay it back....*sigh*

Your right, if the debt is out of statue, you could not pay back what is rightfully owed. I dont understand why people use the law and loop holes not to pay back what they have borrowed. What are you teaching the youth. That it is o.k. to borrow and if you can get away without paying for a couple of years then you dont have to pay it back? What happened to doing the "right thing" .....I dont get it...i read all these forums how the collector is the bad guy, but not one states how the real bad guy is the one who borrowed the money and found the loop hole on how not to pay it back....*sigh*