Complaint Review: Kandy Hall Whinny Farms - Burns Oregon

A brief "reply" to the Whinney Farms long statement.  Not stated in my previous "Ripoff Report" is why my wife and I did not want to return the puppy to Whinney Farms.  We did not trust that it would be well-cared for by Whinney folks. 

Due to the puppy not showing any behaviors very typical of "purebred" Border Collies, a family from St. Helens [Oregon] area came to meet the puppy and loved it.  A few days later, my wife and I drove pup to St. Helens [from Camas] and the family warmly accepted her. 

We informed Whinney Farms several times that we would not be "returning" pup to them because we did not trust them to care for her adequately. 

We ended up getting a true "purebred" Border Collie shortly after the pup moved to St. Helens.

Regardless of her claims of refunding money, we gave up asking simply because she has none.We purchased several working dogs from her. She runs nothing more than a back alley puppy mill. We figured out later on. Her vehicles are always on the brink of catastrophic failure. It adds to her poor me story which she has ridden for over 5 years.

The only thing that will stop that monster is a judge's gavel. Kandy is in it for herself and nothing more, her dogs are mutts minus one maybe two. DNA testing can prove 90 percent of her "pure" stock would show it. As for her claims of "slander", well why not listen to the claims she makes about the abusive men and how her slander affects them and their jobs.

They are probably buried out on her little farm somewhere with a hole in their heads knowing her hateful demeanor! Dont let her fool you. The only thing pure that kandy hall offers is her hatred and greed. That too ladies and gentleman is a fact. I'm sorry you were taken by her claims. But we can't sit by idly anymore.

In brief, I'm amazed how some people can "twist" and "deny" the truth.  Whinny's response is loaded with udistortions, obfuscations and cover-up.  Several things Whinny commited to failed to see the light-of-day.  Whinny is a "master" at manipulating people to her financial advantage. 

Enough said, run, don't walk away, from any dealings with Whinny Farms.       

I am rather disappointed that this online slander was posted BEFORE any proven facts were established, and a satisfactory remedy obtained. Upon receiving your msg that you felt your puppy wasn't purebred, I'd assured you she was. I had no reason to believe otherwise! But, your claim did cause us to immediately begin researching your statement. After all - this was our very first litter of ABCA puppies!

After doing some reasearch, we learned that ABCA Border Collies are preferred by people who want proven working stock dogs. It wasn't until we downloaded a doggy-based ancestry program into our computer to track bloodlines, that we realized these older lines combined several breeds within the foundation of ABCA working dogs, including dogs that were ROM'd into the registry on working merits alone, which included dogs with ABCA, NASD, ISDR, and even N/R stock in their lineage!

Regarding the pup you acquired from us:

We acquired what was a breeding pair (plus an additional female for our other male) from another breeder. Waiting for Randi (your pups mom), to show estrus for breeding, she instead started showing pregnancy...we were elated! Waiting for this first litter wouldn't take long now! The puppies were born, and we notified the original owner of their birth, and we marveled at their colors. Original owner stated she'd had some "appear" black that were actually chocolate, as they did show red tinting in their coats...excitement builds!

We marketed the pups...you'd originally inquired about an unregistered older female pup at $200- with delivery to meet option an additional $50-dollars. We replied with link to view all pups, so you could be sure to get your pick. You chose Lizzy with an extra $200-for papers. ($50-dollars is our flat rate to alleviate our delivery costs, and is not a part of puppy's cost, it is buyers choice to opt for delivery to meet them, and we gladly take a whole day off to travel to meet buyer as a courtesy. Should buyer wish to pick up their puppy, the $50-dollars is not charged). $200-dollars was the base puppy price for this puppy too. So, all together, this totalled $450-dollars, which you agreed to, and we made arrangements to travel.

Some times goes by and you insist she isn't purebred Border Collie and perform a test that is designed to tell you what your unknown puppy might be. I researched the test and learned it had been unreliable in some cases per Veterinarians. On the other hand, maybe it was showing the descendants of ABCA Border Collie lineage? To know the truth, we'd need to do more definitive testing, I contacted the most reliable Laboratory in the US for animal genetics testing, and ordered swabs. Upon receiving the swabs, we discover you have already begun your case of vicious slander against us! All over the West Coast! And we don't even have the facts yet since the swabs weren't even here yet!

We received the swabs, and asked you to swab your puppy - AT OUR EXPENSE - you absolutely REFUSED, but continued your slanderous claims! And...you REFUSED to return your puppy for a full refund! All the while claiming that I refuse to repay you! You adamantly stated that you were KEEPING your puppy, but demanded in excess of $810-dollars back, with threats of up $5000-dollars in what you believe to be obtainable damages!

If you are not satisfied with your purchase, or the purchase is defective - you return it for a full refund! I encouraged you to do this, so we could get to the bottom of this ourselves, and still be able to satisfy you. It is unethical to keep your purchase AND demand in excess of a full refund!

You threatened to sue us, and the breeders before us, and the breeders before them (due to the fact that I provided you with extended ancestry of the puppy showing it's mixed heritage within the breed) using these pedigree certificates that I provided to you... as "proof"! It is highly possible that the problem you are having with the "purity" of ABCA Border Collies is a decision on the part of the registry to include dogs that excelled in their program, regardless of their purity in heritage, but within certain registry standards.

This is NOT my decision to assume the blame for! Our program was to breed ABCA Border Collies to ABCA Border Collies to produce ABCA Border Collies! I've since been told by other Border Collie enthusiasts that it's common knowledge that working Border Collie's don't have breed "purity" due to the nature of the breed being devoped by a mixture of other breeds, and further stating that your public claims against us were just cruel and unfortunate.

Now...throughout this whole ordeal, we've discovered that some things we were investigating weren't adding up. Taking that into consideration, we did more research in that direction (instead of lineage). We'd also made arrangements to recall/exchange pups with another buyer from that litter. They were very happy that we proved ourselves reputable breeders, and chose to become satisfied buyers! Too bad you were more interested in slander than satisfaction!

Turns out that finally...on Jan 9th of 2018, we made the discovery of what we believe is the truth regarding this litter - which is - that this litter may have been sired by another male altogether at the original owners! He is not available for testing, and we are fairly certain he had to be the sire since we've finally obtained photos of him to compare to these pups. Certain enough to send ABCA a formal letter requesting them to CANCEL the Registration Certificates for this litter! This would've been good information to know first hand! It would've saved us all a load of grief! The pups would've sold for the normal unpapered price of $250-each with delivery to meet, or $200-and you pick up puppy here at the ranch.

Yes, we made the mistake of assuming the parentage of this litter, as we'd acquired a breeding pair from a breeder, and we were not cautioned otherwise that anything could be wrong with the parentage of this litter. We were even assisted in acquiring forms to register this litter as breeder, thereby assuming full responsibility.

We are truely very sorry, we honestly did not realize this puppy was sired by another male, or she wouldn't have even been papered! We take great pride in our honesty and integrity, and we have numerous happy & repeat customers! Do you really think we would gamble the reputation of a solid family business on a mere puppy sale!?! In 30-years time, we've had a couple clients (and possibly ex's) seek revenge and destruction of our good name over restitution, and sadly I think this may be another of those cases.

We have made several attempts to either exchange you for another puppy, but you REFUSED, or to REFUND your purchase monies upon return of the puppy - which you also blatantly REFUSED! Instead, you demand in excess of your money back, while remaining adamant that you are keeping your puppy since "you love her & she is a part of your family" while you increase your slander of us all over the west coast!

Then, we notice the puppy "you love & is a part of your family" has GOT to go - advertised for FREE! Then you start re-posting more slander against us! We offered you a FULL REFUND of the puppy price for this puppy back! Doesn't make sense! Why re-home her for FREE when you're offered a FULL REFUND to simply return her? To add more merit to your slander?!?

If you REFUSE to be satisfied, there's really nothing more I can do. I had to leave this reply here, since this is where you wish people to seek the truth from. I am fully willing to REFUND a portion of your purchase, less the agreed delivery expense and of course the balance of the puppy since the puppy is NO LONGER AVAILABLE to RETURN to us! I do however think it's only fair that you put as much effort into a PUBLIC retraction as you have put into trying to destroy the credibility of our good name (slander was unnecessary to obtain satisfaction). The damages you have caused us are not repairable by our REFUND to you. I still personally believe that you saw an opportunity take advantage of me as I'd confided in you about our struggle since my brain injury. You appeared to be kind and consoling, even offering to assist troubleshooting my truck, as it was overheating so badly to even make the delivery. Maybe that was a clue I didn't see until now, that this transaction should've never happened. Regardless, it did, and I feel like you exercised an opportunity to invest $450-to try and cause me to to repay up to $5000- and publicly shame myself (per your email demands), knowing I was in no shape to defend myself. We would NEVER knowingly or intentionally falsely represent anything! We have no reason to, a family farm is not ever a "get rich quick" thing, it's daily providing a service and working your butt off for very little compensation because it's what you love to do - putting smiles on people's faces is the reward.

What you've posted in your slander, differs from your demands & threats to us. You made it very clear (privately to us) that you sought our personal and family business demise over restitution, while posting (publicly) how wronged you were by us to cause our family business to suffer and fail. I hope that someday you'll find a cure for this mindset that will cause you peace & satisfaction. All we've ever wanted was a happy & satisfied customer.

That said and off my chest, I understand there is still a huge amount of slander being circulated, and this is my final attempt at recompense. Please find yourself as courteous in receipt of your REFUND as you were about the puppy purchase and post, post, post away on every site you can - THAT THIS UNINTENTIONAL MISTAKE HAS BEEN RECTIFIED!

Thank-You

PS: I'm not totally sure what name REFUND payments should be sent to, as several different names have been utilized by you in our communications. We will use the one posted here.