- Report: #95810
Complaint Review: Optionetics - Belmont California
-
Author Not Confirmed
Why?
Optionetics
1301 Shoreway Rd, Ste 125 / Belmont, CA 94002 Belmont, 04002 California, U.S.A.
Phone:
888-366-8264
Web:
N/A
Categories:
Business Rating:
(0)
Tell us has your experience with this business or person been good?
Optionetics lies misrepresents and exploits Belmont California
*REBUTTAL Owner of company: 100% incorrect
*Consumer Comment: This is going to be fun
*Consumer Comment: This is going to be fun
*Consumer Comment: This is going to be fun
*Consumer Comment: This is going to be fun
*Consumer Suggestion: There is only one way to make money in the stock market. You trade on inside information. If you don't have the contacts for that, forget it.
*Consumer Comment: My reply was to Joseph
*Consumer Comment: Make complaint to California Consumer Affairs
*Consumer Comment: Speaking of truths... do you show consumers this history PRIOR to taking their money? NO
*REBUTTAL Individual responds: And the truth is ...
Jacqueline is right in calling Optionetics on their fraudulent actions. Whether or not she was right in her math is a moot point; I did the required number of trades, many of which were even the trades that their "experts" recommended in their overpriced and essentially useless publications, and still was denied the refund that they'd promised.
Here's their scam in brief: they guarantee to refund your $2995 if you don't make at least $9,000 in the first six months, provided you've made at least an average of 6 trades per month. This guarantee is made not only verbally by the presenter at the free introductory seminar; they even give you an embossed certificate stating it, AND it's right there on their website.
BUT then have you sign a statement(when you pay for the seminar) that includes a version of the "Refund Guarantee" that is trickily worded so that it's virtually impossible to claim; AND, you also are signing a statement that you agree that these, and only these words constitute the guarantee.
They leave themselves several outs. As Jacqueline experienced, there's no definition of "trades." But that's nothing. Even if you do all the trades they require, and EVEN if you ONLY do trades THEY THEMSELVES have recommended, there are still two dirty tricks they use.
The first is that the fake guarantee's wording makes it sound like you're supposed to send them your trading records AFTER seven months have passed. But the real, small-print guarantee that you sign says you have to claim the guarantee BEFORE the end of the 7th month. Even if you manage to figure this out, it's extememly difficult to beat them at their own game; given the amount of time it takes, at the beginning when you start trading, to open a brokerage account, attend the paid seminar, buy software and/or publications, and decide on a trade to place, there ends up being a TINY window, IF ANY, between the end of your first six months of trading and the end of the seventh month after you signed the small-print, ripoff "guarantee."
Now, suppose you were able to do all that. Their last line of deceitful defense is that the wording of the ripoff guarantee doesn't say, like the fake guarantee, that you have to have used their recommended strategies. It says you have to PROVE that THEIR STRATEGIES CAN'T be used to make $9K in six months. Well, OF COURSE you can't prove that; they can point to any number of their people who trade in huge volumes and may have grossed (not even netted) $9K within a six month period.
Bottom line, they PURPOSELY MISLEAD their customers. They have no intention whatsoever of making good on their guarantee.
Oh, and there's another clause; they say you can get your money back if you decide not to take the class; all you have to do is return the materials before noon on the first day of your seminar. Well, the seminars are all set up so that the lunch break doesn't happen till around 1 pm. I have not heard of this happening, but now that I know what the people of Optionetics are really like, I fully expect them to say "Sorry! It's past noon!"
Now. Let's say you've gotten involved in Optionetics, gotten fired up with enthusiasm (they're EXPERTS in encouraging that), believed that the people are as nice as they act (the lower-level employees probably actually are, but they're not the ones who are responsible for the scams), and therefore give them a break about the fake guarantee. [Believe it or not, MANY optionetics customers do that. They just cannot make themselves see that the emperor is stark naked, and even decry people who complain about the scam -- see the optionetics discussion boards for examples.]
There's still a big problem. What they do is teach you the ropes of options trading in just enough detail that you TOTALLY believe "it OUGHT to work!" I was one of those people -- I had an answer for every skeptical question asked by my concerned friends and family. What I didn't have was enough experience with the stock market to know that NOBODY, but NOBODY, has anything that even approaches a sure-fire method.
I studied options trading and related subjects intensively, at least 8 or 9 hours every day, for at least 10 months. I am NOT a beginner (one thing they say is, you don't have to be smart to profit -- "we know of a 13-year old who's making GREAT money for his parents using our system!!"). But trust me, dumb or smart, beginner or not, it is NOT as straightforward as they continually imply. Options pricing is so complex, in fact, that the people who developed the system won a Nobel prize for it! There are so many complex details that contribute, you're lucky to profit even if a trade DOES go the way you hope it will.
Not to mention the MANY trades that don't go your way -- and, when they don't, you really lose big-time, because the "exit strategies" Optionetics recommends are simplistic to the point of idiocy.
One thing Optionetics does is peddle a number of publications that supposedly have fool-proof trades recommended by their experts. Most cost around $1,000 a year (one per week). I purchased five of them as part of a package. At first, they'd publish their results: "9% overall profit over the last X months" or whatever. Then they started doing so badly that they were posting losses, even the one put out by the famous head of optionetics, George Fontanills (famed for his successful Hedge Fund, which I understand he's ALSO given up -- anyone can make a profit when the market's going sharply up or down, it's like hitting the side of a barn -- but those conditions haven't existed for several years now). So anyway, now they just neglect to publish their "expert" results. But still are selling the quack medicine at outrageous prices.
Oh, and if you mention that most of your LOSING trades are ones you got from their publications, their response is, "well, did you place ALL the trades we recommend, or cherry-pick through them?" Which is pure b.s., because first of all, even on average, you wouldn't have profited in many cases by placing all their trades; second, nowhere is it recommended that you do so; third, there's no way most people even have the capital to have so many trades on at once; and fourth, even George (whom they disgustingly refer to as "guru") recommends not placing more than about five trades at a time! Oh, those people -- they just keep shovelling the cr*p your way.
If you're determined to try options trading, then at least do your study using free or reasonably-priced resources (like books.) Please don't support these charlatans. If you do, and you have positive results, you will be a member of a tiny majority of people who just happen to have lucked out.
Joseph
San Diego, California
U.S.A.
Here's their scam in brief: they guarantee to refund your $2995 if you don't make at least $9,000 in the first six months, provided you've made at least an average of 6 trades per month. This guarantee is made not only verbally by the presenter at the free introductory seminar; they even give you an embossed certificate stating it, AND it's right there on their website.
BUT then have you sign a statement(when you pay for the seminar) that includes a version of the "Refund Guarantee" that is trickily worded so that it's virtually impossible to claim; AND, you also are signing a statement that you agree that these, and only these words constitute the guarantee.
They leave themselves several outs. As Jacqueline experienced, there's no definition of "trades." But that's nothing. Even if you do all the trades they require, and EVEN if you ONLY do trades THEY THEMSELVES have recommended, there are still two dirty tricks they use.
The first is that the fake guarantee's wording makes it sound like you're supposed to send them your trading records AFTER seven months have passed. But the real, small-print guarantee that you sign says you have to claim the guarantee BEFORE the end of the 7th month. Even if you manage to figure this out, it's extememly difficult to beat them at their own game; given the amount of time it takes, at the beginning when you start trading, to open a brokerage account, attend the paid seminar, buy software and/or publications, and decide on a trade to place, there ends up being a TINY window, IF ANY, between the end of your first six months of trading and the end of the seventh month after you signed the small-print, ripoff "guarantee."
Now, suppose you were able to do all that. Their last line of deceitful defense is that the wording of the ripoff guarantee doesn't say, like the fake guarantee, that you have to have used their recommended strategies. It says you have to PROVE that THEIR STRATEGIES CAN'T be used to make $9K in six months. Well, OF COURSE you can't prove that; they can point to any number of their people who trade in huge volumes and may have grossed (not even netted) $9K within a six month period.
Bottom line, they PURPOSELY MISLEAD their customers. They have no intention whatsoever of making good on their guarantee.
Oh, and there's another clause; they say you can get your money back if you decide not to take the class; all you have to do is return the materials before noon on the first day of your seminar. Well, the seminars are all set up so that the lunch break doesn't happen till around 1 pm. I have not heard of this happening, but now that I know what the people of Optionetics are really like, I fully expect them to say "Sorry! It's past noon!"
Now. Let's say you've gotten involved in Optionetics, gotten fired up with enthusiasm (they're EXPERTS in encouraging that), believed that the people are as nice as they act (the lower-level employees probably actually are, but they're not the ones who are responsible for the scams), and therefore give them a break about the fake guarantee. [Believe it or not, MANY optionetics customers do that. They just cannot make themselves see that the emperor is stark naked, and even decry people who complain about the scam -- see the optionetics discussion boards for examples.]
There's still a big problem. What they do is teach you the ropes of options trading in just enough detail that you TOTALLY believe "it OUGHT to work!" I was one of those people -- I had an answer for every skeptical question asked by my concerned friends and family. What I didn't have was enough experience with the stock market to know that NOBODY, but NOBODY, has anything that even approaches a sure-fire method.
I studied options trading and related subjects intensively, at least 8 or 9 hours every day, for at least 10 months. I am NOT a beginner (one thing they say is, you don't have to be smart to profit -- "we know of a 13-year old who's making GREAT money for his parents using our system!!"). But trust me, dumb or smart, beginner or not, it is NOT as straightforward as they continually imply. Options pricing is so complex, in fact, that the people who developed the system won a Nobel prize for it! There are so many complex details that contribute, you're lucky to profit even if a trade DOES go the way you hope it will.
Not to mention the MANY trades that don't go your way -- and, when they don't, you really lose big-time, because the "exit strategies" Optionetics recommends are simplistic to the point of idiocy.
One thing Optionetics does is peddle a number of publications that supposedly have fool-proof trades recommended by their experts. Most cost around $1,000 a year (one per week). I purchased five of them as part of a package. At first, they'd publish their results: "9% overall profit over the last X months" or whatever. Then they started doing so badly that they were posting losses, even the one put out by the famous head of optionetics, George Fontanills (famed for his successful Hedge Fund, which I understand he's ALSO given up -- anyone can make a profit when the market's going sharply up or down, it's like hitting the side of a barn -- but those conditions haven't existed for several years now). So anyway, now they just neglect to publish their "expert" results. But still are selling the quack medicine at outrageous prices.
Oh, and if you mention that most of your LOSING trades are ones you got from their publications, their response is, "well, did you place ALL the trades we recommend, or cherry-pick through them?" Which is pure b.s., because first of all, even on average, you wouldn't have profited in many cases by placing all their trades; second, nowhere is it recommended that you do so; third, there's no way most people even have the capital to have so many trades on at once; and fourth, even George (whom they disgustingly refer to as "guru") recommends not placing more than about five trades at a time! Oh, those people -- they just keep shovelling the cr*p your way.
If you're determined to try options trading, then at least do your study using free or reasonably-priced resources (like books.) Please don't support these charlatans. If you do, and you have positive results, you will be a member of a tiny majority of people who just happen to have lucked out.
Joseph
San Diego, California
U.S.A.
10 Updates & Rebuttals
George
Miami,Florida,
U.S.A.
And the truth is ...
#2REBUTTAL Individual responds
Sat, January 21, 2006
Dynetech is one of Florida's most respected up and coming companies. They specialize in direct response marketing and have many different clients. Just like any advertizing agency. So obviously you use different corporate or marketing names as they are seperate clients. You use different phone numbers to track marketing results or divert the calls to the correct departments. All of this is normal business used by any successful business. Optionetics specializes in trading research and publishing such information. In a third party relationship Dynetech help with marketing. Sometimes the truth is simplier than the aliases used by the same person on this site attempting to discredit me. If anyone has any questions please contact Optionetics. We are still waiting for our first call from any of these alias posters.
Fyi
Greensboro,North Carolina,
U.S.A.
Speaking of truths... do you show consumers this history PRIOR to taking their money? NO
#3Consumer Comment
Sat, December 03, 2005
Hi Richard, Thanks, not sure how I missed listing you in my previous post, I mean, there are just so many of you to keep up with - but glad to make the update and set the record straight. Optionetics 255 Shoreline Drive Suite 100 Redwood City, CA 94065 Telephone: (888) 366-8264 (ask for Richard) OR (650) 232-1414 Ms. Amy Morris, Director of Marketing, Principal Type of Business: Sales Presentations OR try Tony Clemendor.COO Optionetics http://www.optionetics.com Your business is Sales Presentations - funny this doesn't say Income Specialists or something that would give credibility in your company's ability to make others the fortunes you advertise. But NO - your type of business is Sales Presentations ... your true responsibility in the scheme of Dynatec after all is making the sale, raking the money in and keeping it. You are under the Dynatech umbrella of companies: Dynetech Corporation 255 S Orange Ave Ste 600 Orlando, FL 32801 David Early, President with other contacts of: Mr George Fontanills, Pres.-Optionetics) Mr. Mark Gonzalez Mr Robert Hall Mr. Christopher A. Hudson Mr. Laurence J Pino, Esquire-Director Laurence J Pino-Chairman & CEO Mr Laurence J Pino-Chairman & CEO Ms. Cathy Simmons-Adm. Assistant Mr. Michael Stewart Mr Lance Strauss The above involved in these types of businesses(to name a few): Sales Presentations Business Opportunity Cos. Computers-Sys Designers & Consult Investment Advisory Service Motivational/Self Improve Training Training Programs You (Optionetics) are simply one of the many DBA's of Dynatech. Curious: Joseph wrote the report, your response was directed to George - & you couldn't find him in your data base - WELL daaaaaaah - WHATEVER... I've read some of the complaint reports and they are so similar to any that you read regarding training/coaching services. Huge promises of big money to get you to sign up, then when complaints come in each one says the same thing. It's a business, not a get rich quick scheme, no promises of income - bla, bla, bla - every excuse in the book not to be accountable for income claims made that make your business sound wonderful, easy, the money will start flowing in tomorrow. Make sure you read copy & paste the links (listed below)for background info on Laurence J. Pino, CEO/Dynetech Corp. I was @?%^%#&* when I saw Citrus Collection Agency listed at the same FL address. Isn't that outragous ???-- here Larry is an attorney, selling consumers services, getting them to commit to his programs, and when it doesn't work out for the consumers, they aren't making money like the seminar claimed they would make with his programs, they are losing money and can't pay the original purchase - he uses his in-house collection agency - and has his gurus say - oh, it isn't our fault, we made no promises, everyone should keep trying, we're not the bad guys - Ya Right. Here is the scoop: Lots of info - hope it helps those looking for it & needing it. Phone numbers are cross referenced below for each business name. Staggering how many there are, Businesses + DBA's. If companies are trust worthy, run ethical business practices - then WHY do they have to keep changing business package titles and business names - it is Ridiculous. Business Names with this SAME Texas address: 4X Made Easy / ForeX Commodities Made Easy GlobalTec Solutions, LLP Options Made Easy MarketPlace Pro Wizetrade 15601 N Dallas Pkwy Suite 200 Addison, TX 75001 Mr. Jeff Johnson, Chief Operations Officer or Principal Each has their own BBB report even though they have the same address, check it out for your self to see who names are listed with each. Dynetech Corporation DBA's: Global Tech, Optionetics (see separate address above), Securities Trading Corporation, Techwerks, 255 S Orange Ave Ste 600 Orlando, FL 32801 Orange County Laurence J. Pino Chairman & CEO Mr. David Early, President or Principal Contact for all listed below Other Business Names with this SAME Florida address: 4X Made Easy American Cash Flow Corporation (ACFC) DBA's: American Cash Flow Association, American Cash Flow Corporation, American Cash Flow Institute, American Cash Flow Journal Complaints to Ms. Patricia T. Wilson Citrus Collection Agency, Laurence J Pino CEO Emerald Capital Group Inc., Complaints to Ms. Patricia T. Wilson International Acceptance Company DBA: International Acceptance Corp, Citrus Collection Agency, Laurence J Pino CEO Kessler Real Estate Institute DBA's: International Acceptance Co., International Acceptance Corp. DBA Business Skills Corporation MyAuctionCo.com One Minute Millionaire Institute DBA Life Skills Corp. Options Made Easy Robert Allen Institute -. DBA Business Skills Corporation Wizetrade Want to know about Laurence J. Pino, Dynetech Corporation CEO, go to: http://www.papersourceonline.com/newswk.htm & http://www.lawyerlounge.com/forum/forum.php?id=P767 June 2003 -The 2nd web reference, scroll down & read last 3 paragraphs: [2] ACFA, ACFI, NMII, DCFI among other names, all founded by Pino & received reprimand by Florida Bar Assoc for misusing an investor's funds. Last paragraph = Tennessee Cease & Desist Order charged ACFC & related businesses for operating an illegal securities scheme 1996 General of Tennessee sited Pino for similar tactics under DCFI which paid fines for violating Tennessee Consumer Protection Act Websites: www.robertalleninstitute.com http://acfa-cashflow.com/ acfwebpartner.com goes to -- http://www.cashflowpro.com/ http://cashflowindustry.com/ http://www.americancashflow.com/ http://www.americancashflowindustry.com/ http://www.dynetech.com/ http://www.emeraldcapitalgroup.com/ http://www.kesslerrealestateinstitute.com/contents/complete23.php http://www.marketplacepro.com/ http://www.markvictorhansen.com/ http://www.myauctionco.com/ http://www.mymediaworks.com/ http://www.oneminutemillionairesystem.com/ http://www.robertalleninstitute.com/ http://www.techwerks.net/ phone number cross-reference with DBA business names. (407) 206-6580 = Dynetech Corp (407) 206-6581 = Dynetech Corp (407) 206-6582 = Dynetech Corp (407) 425-7831 = Dynetech Corp (407) 648-9499 = Dynetech Corp (407) 649-1903 = American Cash Flow Corp, Citrus Collection Agency, Dynetech Corp, International Acceptance company, Kessler Real Estate Institute, One Minute Millionaire Institute, Robert Allen Institute (407) 649-8488 = Dynetech Corp (407) 843-4866 = American Cash Flow Corp (800) 253-1293 = Dynetech Corp & Wizetrade (800) 253-1294 = American Cash Flow Corp. (800) 348-0156 = Dynetech Corp & One Minute Millionaire Institute (800) 348-0158 = Dynetech Corp & ACFC / American Cash Flow Corp (800) 499-9444 = Dynetech Corp & Kessler Real Estate Institute (800) 713-6901 = Dynetech Corp & American Cash Flow Corp (800) 713-6902 = Dynetech Corp & Emerald Capital Group Inc (800) 809 1274 = Citrus Collection Agency (800) 809-1279 = Dynetech Corp, Emerald Capital Group Inc, International Acceptance Co. (800) 809-1281 = Dynetech Corp & Robert Allen Institute (800) 809-7301 = Dynetech Corp & MyAuctionCo.com (800) 874-0388 = Dynetech Corp (407) 206-6500 (FAX) = Dynetech Corp, ACFC & 4X Made Easy (407) 206-6501 (FAX) = Dynetech Corp (407) 206-6508 (FAX) = Dynetech Corp & American Cash Flow Corp (407) 422-7425 (FAX) = American Cash Flow Corp (407) 649-1903 (FAX) = Dynetech Corp, ACFC, Citrus Collection Agency, International Acceptance Company, Kessler Real Estate Institute, One Minute Millionaire Institute & Robert Allen Institute (407) 843-4866 (FAX) = American Cash Flow Corp 866 260-4900 = Commodities Made Easy (888) 304-8881 = Wizetrade (888) 366-8264 OPTIONETICS (888) 720-5200 = 4x Made Easy, Global Tech LLC (888) 988-7100 = Options Made Easy (972) 387-4728, (972) 387-4729 (FAX), = 4x Made Easy, Commodities Made Easy, Global Tec Solutions, LLP, Options Made Easy, Wizetrade (972) 387-4830 = Wizetrade
Keith
North Vancouver,British Columbia,
Canada
Make complaint to California Consumer Affairs
#4Consumer Comment
Thu, November 24, 2005
Hi, I am also a complainant against Optionetics at top of page (North Vancouver, Canada) and have just mailed my complaint to the State of California Consumer Services Agency. The more of us making complaint, the more effectively that agency will react, Please make time to go to their web site and download the General Complaint form and send it in with all necessary documentation to your case. Look for State of California State and Consumer Services Agency. Telephone: 1-800-952-5210 Address. Department of Consumer Affairs, Correspondence Unit, 400 R Street, Suite 1080, Sacramento, California, 95814
John
Baltimore,Maryland,
U.S.A.
My reply was to Joseph
#5Consumer Comment
Thu, November 03, 2005
My reply was to Joseph, not you Paul, so I will treat your post independent of his. Paul, since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you tell us how the market works? I will note that there is far more inside info floating around out there, but you make it sound like it no one gets rich through the market. While it's true Warren Buffett buys companies, not stock, the medium he uses is still the market. Please explain why he would amass 300 million shares of Coke, if everyone trades on inside info? There's nothing spectacular about Coke. It's not the cure for cancer. The stock isn't going anywhere. I found a recent statistic that out of the roughly 239 million people in the US, 89 million are involved in the market. So they must ALL be trading on insider info according to you. Oh wait, just the rich ones. I wonder, what's your source for inside info since you claim it's the only way to make money? Please don't deprieve us of that professional knowledge. If it's just a belief of yours based on say experience, well I can make sweeping statements that fire is hot. But that's just my experience. So to all reading this, I ask you. Is Paul right and the market is simply a place where contacts exchange insider info to get rich? Or is the 89 million people right that the market actually does work and Paul is simply a conspiracy theory hobbyist? The ONLY thing Paul may be right on is that there is much info out there on the market. Go to the library, read this and that. The way to make money is to be good at whatever one does, whether it be trading stocks, selling software, operating a gas station, playing poker etc etc.
Paul
Anaheim,California,
U.S.A.
There is only one way to make money in the stock market. You trade on inside information. If you don't have the contacts for that, forget it.
#6Consumer Suggestion
Sun, October 30, 2005
All the professionals in the market have contacts for information. They develop these contacts over years of working in the stock market. Only a complete idiot studies charts and graphs. Or, worse yet, buys special software that analyzes thousands of companies and looks for trading signals. All that nonsense is strictly amateur hour. So is this idiot who is running his options seminar. All he is doing is charging you three grand and then showing you how to gamble with your money. The only way to trade and come out ahead is by using inside information. Think Martha Stewart and Imclone. She owned the stock. She got a tip is was about to take a dive. She sold off 4000 shares while it was still high. That is how professional investors trade everyday. The only difference is that nobody ever catches them at it. If you don't have a source for information, forget it. You have about the same chance as you'd have by drilling for oil in your back yard. If you want to know more about the market, or options in particular, buy a book. Or, borrow one from the local library. Every crackpot out there thinks he has a proven system for profitable trading. There are tons of books on the subject. The way to make money is by sticking with something that you know and understand. Start a business based on the information you learned in your job. At least that way, you have a decent chance at success. Bet on something that you know and understand. That's how you make money. Leave the options trading to the pros and the crackpots with their systems.
John
Baltimore,Maryland,
U.S.A.
This is going to be fun
#7Consumer Comment
Sun, October 30, 2005
Let me see where to start. I won't hit on the refund as it is a company thing and also I believe I have addressed it somewhere on this site in another thread. Let me start with the lunch break issue you have brought up. Have you EVER been to a 2 day seminar? I have been to multiple, and ALL of them always had lunch start dead on at 12. If not, they let you know they are going to run over the time limit. Also, what's stopping you from just leaving before 12? Optionetics does teach you quality information on options. However they never say this is ALL you need to know to succeed in trading. EVERY educational company and/or brokerage states Past performance is no guarantee for future performance. Optionetics merely teaches you the framework and the best ways to apply it, how you decide to actually apply it is up to you. I do post on the discussion boards and I know what it takes to make it in trading as do many other who are NOT affliated with optionetics. Do you? Ok, so you studied for 8 hours a day for 10 months, I will assume your statement of not a beginner is correct. If so, then you and I see eye to eye on skill levels. Then you will know what is needed to be profitable trading options. If so you are on that level, you know that it is NOT as simple. Optionetics, like I said above, never states it was that simple. In fact in reply to your statement that option pricing is complex, sure it can be, but if you profit you profit. Because of that, I question your skill level, and your money management practices. Optionetics clearly states your exit points and you risk tolerance. You get out when it is hit end of story. As for the last 3 paragraphs, if you really claimed to not be a beginner, you then know something about probalities and statistics in options trading. You then know one CANNOT predict the market, and that ANY trade can profit or lose. Could the publications simply be wrong? Just because those giving the trades in the publications may have more experience and knowledge doesn't mean they are gods and are never wrong. Better yet, let me ask YOU a question. What's YOUR track record? The more I read your completely asinine post, the bigger impression I get is that you have simply been unsuccessful and is looking for someone to blame. Go read on Jesse Livermore if you are simply discouraged. BTW, I didn't just use optionetics material, I also have read many books on options. Optionetics simply puts you up that learning curve that much faster. I love the way you bash optionetics, claiming you are not a beginner, who are you, Wade Cook? Since you are SO knowledgeable why don't you tell me how a collar is similar to a bull call spread?(I'll go easy on you). Even your last sentence is unrealistic. So your telling me ALL the market makers and etc on the CBOE don't make some good money? If you have been successful since your post, then excuse my 1 year late post. It was at the time of reading that you were just talking sh*t.
John
Baltimore,Maryland,
U.S.A.
This is going to be fun
#8Consumer Comment
Sun, October 30, 2005
Let me see where to start. I won't hit on the refund as it is a company thing and also I believe I have addressed it somewhere on this site in another thread. Let me start with the lunch break issue you have brought up. Have you EVER been to a 2 day seminar? I have been to multiple, and ALL of them always had lunch start dead on at 12. If not, they let you know they are going to run over the time limit. Also, what's stopping you from just leaving before 12? Optionetics does teach you quality information on options. However they never say this is ALL you need to know to succeed in trading. EVERY educational company and/or brokerage states Past performance is no guarantee for future performance. Optionetics merely teaches you the framework and the best ways to apply it, how you decide to actually apply it is up to you. I do post on the discussion boards and I know what it takes to make it in trading as do many other who are NOT affliated with optionetics. Do you? Ok, so you studied for 8 hours a day for 10 months, I will assume your statement of not a beginner is correct. If so, then you and I see eye to eye on skill levels. Then you will know what is needed to be profitable trading options. If so you are on that level, you know that it is NOT as simple. Optionetics, like I said above, never states it was that simple. In fact in reply to your statement that option pricing is complex, sure it can be, but if you profit you profit. Because of that, I question your skill level, and your money management practices. Optionetics clearly states your exit points and you risk tolerance. You get out when it is hit end of story. As for the last 3 paragraphs, if you really claimed to not be a beginner, you then know something about probalities and statistics in options trading. You then know one CANNOT predict the market, and that ANY trade can profit or lose. Could the publications simply be wrong? Just because those giving the trades in the publications may have more experience and knowledge doesn't mean they are gods and are never wrong. Better yet, let me ask YOU a question. What's YOUR track record? The more I read your completely asinine post, the bigger impression I get is that you have simply been unsuccessful and is looking for someone to blame. Go read on Jesse Livermore if you are simply discouraged. BTW, I didn't just use optionetics material, I also have read many books on options. Optionetics simply puts you up that learning curve that much faster. I love the way you bash optionetics, claiming you are not a beginner, who are you, Wade Cook? Since you are SO knowledgeable why don't you tell me how a collar is similar to a bull call spread?(I'll go easy on you). Even your last sentence is unrealistic. So your telling me ALL the market makers and etc on the CBOE don't make some good money? If you have been successful since your post, then excuse my 1 year late post. It was at the time of reading that you were just talking sh*t.
John
Baltimore,Maryland,
U.S.A.
This is going to be fun
#9Consumer Comment
Sun, October 30, 2005
Let me see where to start. I won't hit on the refund as it is a company thing and also I believe I have addressed it somewhere on this site in another thread. Let me start with the lunch break issue you have brought up. Have you EVER been to a 2 day seminar? I have been to multiple, and ALL of them always had lunch start dead on at 12. If not, they let you know they are going to run over the time limit. Also, what's stopping you from just leaving before 12? Optionetics does teach you quality information on options. However they never say this is ALL you need to know to succeed in trading. EVERY educational company and/or brokerage states Past performance is no guarantee for future performance. Optionetics merely teaches you the framework and the best ways to apply it, how you decide to actually apply it is up to you. I do post on the discussion boards and I know what it takes to make it in trading as do many other who are NOT affliated with optionetics. Do you? Ok, so you studied for 8 hours a day for 10 months, I will assume your statement of not a beginner is correct. If so, then you and I see eye to eye on skill levels. Then you will know what is needed to be profitable trading options. If so you are on that level, you know that it is NOT as simple. Optionetics, like I said above, never states it was that simple. In fact in reply to your statement that option pricing is complex, sure it can be, but if you profit you profit. Because of that, I question your skill level, and your money management practices. Optionetics clearly states your exit points and you risk tolerance. You get out when it is hit end of story. As for the last 3 paragraphs, if you really claimed to not be a beginner, you then know something about probalities and statistics in options trading. You then know one CANNOT predict the market, and that ANY trade can profit or lose. Could the publications simply be wrong? Just because those giving the trades in the publications may have more experience and knowledge doesn't mean they are gods and are never wrong. Better yet, let me ask YOU a question. What's YOUR track record? The more I read your completely asinine post, the bigger impression I get is that you have simply been unsuccessful and is looking for someone to blame. Go read on Jesse Livermore if you are simply discouraged. BTW, I didn't just use optionetics material, I also have read many books on options. Optionetics simply puts you up that learning curve that much faster. I love the way you bash optionetics, claiming you are not a beginner, who are you, Wade Cook? Since you are SO knowledgeable why don't you tell me how a collar is similar to a bull call spread?(I'll go easy on you). Even your last sentence is unrealistic. So your telling me ALL the market makers and etc on the CBOE don't make some good money? If you have been successful since your post, then excuse my 1 year late post. It was at the time of reading that you were just talking sh*t.
John
Baltimore,Maryland,
U.S.A.
This is going to be fun
#10Consumer Comment
Sun, October 30, 2005
Let me see where to start. I won't hit on the refund as it is a company thing and also I believe I have addressed it somewhere on this site in another thread. Let me start with the lunch break issue you have brought up. Have you EVER been to a 2 day seminar? I have been to multiple, and ALL of them always had lunch start dead on at 12. If not, they let you know they are going to run over the time limit. Also, what's stopping you from just leaving before 12? Optionetics does teach you quality information on options. However they never say this is ALL you need to know to succeed in trading. EVERY educational company and/or brokerage states Past performance is no guarantee for future performance. Optionetics merely teaches you the framework and the best ways to apply it, how you decide to actually apply it is up to you. I do post on the discussion boards and I know what it takes to make it in trading as do many other who are NOT affliated with optionetics. Do you? Ok, so you studied for 8 hours a day for 10 months, I will assume your statement of not a beginner is correct. If so, then you and I see eye to eye on skill levels. Then you will know what is needed to be profitable trading options. If so you are on that level, you know that it is NOT as simple. Optionetics, like I said above, never states it was that simple. In fact in reply to your statement that option pricing is complex, sure it can be, but if you profit you profit. Because of that, I question your skill level, and your money management practices. Optionetics clearly states your exit points and you risk tolerance. You get out when it is hit end of story. As for the last 3 paragraphs, if you really claimed to not be a beginner, you then know something about probalities and statistics in options trading. You then know one CANNOT predict the market, and that ANY trade can profit or lose. Could the publications simply be wrong? Just because those giving the trades in the publications may have more experience and knowledge doesn't mean they are gods and are never wrong. Better yet, let me ask YOU a question. What's YOUR track record? The more I read your completely asinine post, the bigger impression I get is that you have simply been unsuccessful and is looking for someone to blame. Go read on Jesse Livermore if you are simply discouraged. BTW, I didn't just use optionetics material, I also have read many books on options. Optionetics simply puts you up that learning curve that much faster. I love the way you bash optionetics, claiming you are not a beginner, who are you, Wade Cook? Since you are SO knowledgeable why don't you tell me how a collar is similar to a bull call spread?(I'll go easy on you). Even your last sentence is unrealistic. So your telling me ALL the market makers and etc on the CBOE don't make some good money? If you have been successful since your post, then excuse my 1 year late post. It was at the time of reading that you were just talking sh*t.
Richard
Redwood City,California,
U.S.A.
100% incorrect
#11REBUTTAL Owner of company
Tue, November 02, 2004
Hi George: Your statements are quite false. I really don't know where to start so I will hit the highlights. * We have no record of you as a customer. But in case you really are I will comment. * If you did 36 trades and submitted your trading records then you would get a refund. If you did not then contact my office in Redwood City 1-888-366-8264 so I can gather the details. If we made a mistake (which I hope we did not) I will immediately rectify it. This is not a difficult thing we simply count up 36 open and closed trades to determine if you were successful. There is no debate. Contact me please. * We absolutely do not manipulate our lunch time guarantee. If we run over in time the guarantee would be extended. To eaves drop can be deadly. * So you doubt us - lots of wild talk and speculation. OK - so I offer to fly you up to Redwood City from San Diego at my cost just to show you the children's testimonials that are successful (and we can even chat with them if they and their parents consent) get some of them on the phone with you. We can show you thousands of testimonials, meet the staff you think are dishonest, take you for lunch so you can understand why you are wrong about us, talk about your trading experience, talk to the educational publication editors, see how a refund is processed, meet or talk to some customers that are successful that you doubt exist. In other words talk is cheap I am willing to show you first hand that you are wrong about us, wrong about your claims and is our conviction that we are honest people trying to do the best for our customers. Are we human, do we make mistakes? I regret of course. With 1,500 events a year and 40,000+ customers we can drop the ball like any company. But we try to fix any error if indeed we have made a mistake. That may not mean we refund a customer that does not qualify but does mean we reach out to try to find a solution. Having said all this, I am sorry that we disappointed you and that you were not another success story. But I am willing to personally take you under our wing and educate you in any way at our cost so that you can be successful as part of our second part guarantee to give you personal coaching. Filing a report, making wild claims does not make it true. We are honest people that care about our customers - now that is the truth and I am willing to show you first hand that. Please contact us. Thanks for reading.
