Complaint Review: Techies - Kanab Utah

This individual did indeed contract us to complete a website.  The original contract, signed & dated by both parties, was to do the following for $600:
1.    Transfer existing website from the then current host to Techies web server
2.    Installation and engineering of client database
3.    Matching login form
4.    Matching signup form
5.    Addition of a restricted area on the site
6.    Email setup
7.    FTP setup
A web hosting contract was set up separately for $400 annually or $38 monthly.   The client made a 50% deposit on the contract as well as one month worth of hosting for a total of $338.  When the contract was signed, the client stated he was going out of town, but wanted us to work on it right away while he was out of contact.  He provided us with a disk of his then current website, on it were about 20 pages, mostly just for structure without content.  He stated that he wanted a couple of new pages added to the site, but did not have the content he wanted added at the signing.  Had he had the content, or at least the specifics of what he wanted added and changed, for the site, we could have included these in the contract.  We cannot add things to a contract that we cannot define.  If the client does not know exactly what they want, we cant know either.  As such, we worked up a contract for what we knew he wanted for sure and could work on while he was away.  As we were working on this contract, the client came in and requested several additions and changes made to the site and provided us with typed documents and MS Word files.  We informed him, both verbally and written in the contract, that any changes not included in the contract would be charged at $55 per hour.

The changes he wanted done to the site required that we heavily rework the code.  Since the original site was written with a program, and not by hand, there were many elements in the code that were not needed and were breaking the code we wrote.  At this point, we realized the code was so poorly written, that we told the client that it would be more cost effective, and look more professional, to create a new website rather than fix and update the existing website.  The client insisted on keeping his work as the foundation for the site despite our recommendations.

Over the course of the work period, the client would present us with either typed documents or word & photo files by disk to add to the website.  Each time he would ask us how much we thought it would cost and we would provide him with a rough, verbal estimate.  When we would complete one set of changes, we would contact the client to inform him of what was completed & request payment for what was finished.  He continued to provide new content however, he only made a partial payment on work we had already completed.

By the time we stopped working on the project, we created 59 new pages, updated all of the existing pages with new content (approx. 20 pages), updated the header code to include the new pages and fix the broken links that existed in the original code provided.  We transposed word documents provided in to web pages and corrected several mistakes in code and text on existing pages.  We also created new graphics where needed.  We were told these changes were more important than the database and the secure area so these changes were to be put on priority.

We were then asked to create a photo gallery.  We were given over 270 photos that we were asked to resize and create thumbnails, making a total of 540 photos.  We also needed to change the format of a large majority of the images.  We then uploaded these photos in to a photo gallery that we provided to the client FREE OF CHARGE.  The gallery, along with the automated administrator tools, if purchased, would cost approximately $3,500.  It is an advanced photo gallery that allows for user comments, on the fly updating and insertion by the client without the need for web coding knowledge. The reason we provided the gallery free of charge was to placate  the client because he felt we were not providing him with ANY service and was slandering our name around town.

25 hours, split between two programmers, were spent doing the updates he requested in writing.  We have timesheets and invoices detailing what was done and how long it took.  On September 30, 2008, we presented the client with an invoice for 16 hours of non-contract work totaling $880.  The client made a payment of $600 at that time.  Another invoice of $440 was given to the client for 8 more hours of work put in to the site, no payment was made.  Had we charged the client the standard per-page price for HTML work, which is the industry standard of $100 per page, his bill would have been $7,900 in addition to the original contract and hosting.  Instead, we charged him strictly by the hour and did the work for a grand total of $1,958 which includes the cost of the original contract and hosting.  This equals a savings of $6,580 plus a free photo gallery. Had the client allowed us to create a NEW site, as we recommended, he would have had a very clean, professional website and it would have cost him less money to complete.  The client still owes us over $1,000 for services already rendered.  We have the fully completed website on our web servers, though not on his domain (due to non-payment), with all changes, FREE photo gallery and secure area with sign up and login.

The contract was signed August 12, 2008, the last invoice issued was November 1st, 2008.  The contract states we would complete the contract within 30 days, that time frame does not apply to additional changes requested outside of the contract.  There were upward of 59 NEW pages created, substantial updates and corrections to existing code and resizing and reformatting of numerous photos as well and the inclusion of an advanced photo gallery in less than 3 months.

The contract between the client and ourselves was terminated by our office due to the clients non-payment and slander.  Based on the signed contract, slander is an immediate cause for voiding the contract.  We heard through several of our regular customers that he slandered our name in a local web design class.  According to our other clients, he stated that we told him we couldnt update his site, he would have to get a new website instead and we were simply trying to milk him of his money.  This is not what we said.  What we told the client was the code on his existing website was so poorly coded, with so many mistakes and broken code that it would be less expensive and faster to have us build a new website.  The site would look better, perform faster and cost less than if we simply corrected his existing site.  This was our basis for cancellation of the contract, not that fact that he harassed our employee.  Both he and his wife came in to our store and asked for an update on the site.  They acted rudely and caused quite a scene.  We have several witnesses to attest to this.

Now I would like to respond directly to the claims our client made, his claims will be in quotations (quote):

"Techies of Kanab, UT agreed to develop a website for a fraternal group that I was representing. I had previously attempted to develop our groups own basic website, with the help of a friend, using dream weaver. The company Techies CEO, Dustin Pederson, agreed that he could do it, giving the impression that it would be no big deal by taking all of our materials and going forward and improving on the work already done. Pederson was aware that I was not very informed about web site design, as he took $338 for server use and getting the site on line. I was given the impression that it would be a simple process to be up and running with a website within a few weeks.

The original contract WOULD have been completed in a couple of weeks, but additional work was requested before we had a chance to complete the contract.

Six weeks later upon reviewing his work, at my insistance, the basic site design was found to be not up to the standards that had been agreed upon. The web site was sloppy and navigation was terrible. Actually, very little had changed except for the content materials being added. Pederson claimed that he had further technical issues which required writing of new code to fix the existing problems. And with adding additional materials to the partially developed web site takes time. He said these issues would not be a big thing for him but would take more time.

We did not create a new website for the client, though we strongly suggested we did, therefore the navigation and the look of the site was as he had given it to us, we simply corrected the code (most of which are not displayed on the web but rather viewable in the source code) and added new pages.  The issues were not difficult, just time consuming.  The two are not one in the same.  It is difficult to engineer a rocket engine and takes a lot of time.  However it is NOT difficult to count every bean in a 50 pound bag, it just takes a lot of time.  Correcting his website was like counting beans, not difficult, just time consuming.  This was explained to the client and it is why we suggested we build a new site.

I explained that our group needed the web site on line ASAP. He was paid $600 to continue.

The $600 was given as a partial payment toward the worked we had ALREADY completed, not for work that was yet to be completed.

He still had not given time or cost projections, but acted as if it was no big deal. Five weeks later nothing had changed, no work done.

We were given numerous updates to be done to the site after this payment was made.  Every time we spoke with the client he would ask how much time and cost was involved with every change he gave us.  Every time we would give him our best guess, but it was simply not possible to give an exact estimate on how much time & money  it would take to complete a project that was continually being added on to.  Work, however, had been done to the site, we have timesheets and invoices and date stamps on the pages created to verify our work.

During this entire time frame of 11 weeks, it was I who innitiated all contacts, I was never provided with any paper work, time sheets or progress reports. When I spoke with Pederson, I was given numerous excuses, that was when my messages were returned. Usually we had to go to his office to try to find out what was going on.

There was quite a bit of communication during the time we were working on his project.  We had to confirm various notes and instructions we were given.  When the client requested documentation, he never came back to pick them up.

After almost 12 weeks and after our latest complaint to his office. Pederson called for the first time on his own, but now, to terminate the agreement. He said his employee had been disrespected by us asking for progress reports.

The client WAS highly disrespectful to our employee, making personal attacks toward them, but was not the basis for our cancellation of the contract.  As mentioned earlier, that was due to his non-payment and slander.

I immediately went to meet with Pederson, he claimed 13 hours of work when actually the basic web site design was essentially the same, still sloppy and not working properly. We were back to square one, nothing that Pederson or his business, "Techies" had done was or will be used on our web site.

The website was substantially improved from the condition it was given to us, the last invoice of 8, not 13, hours was to update the links, which was not written in a basic language but rather in an advanced programming language, and we modified pages per the clients request.  We also resized and reformatted hundreds of photos and uploaded them to the photo gallery we provided free of charge.

He took $938 and gave absolutely nothing in return but empty promises. The site never went on line, we never used his server.

The original $338 was the non-refundable deposit on the original contract.  $600 was a partial payment for work completed.  The site was indeed online, just not under his domain.  It is our policy not to make websites live until they are paid in full.  This policy is clearly stated in our contract.

No time sheets or copies of the original agreement was ever provided. He said I owed him more money for his time, and I insisted that he owed me my money back since he did not actually do anything but create a mess.

All invoices, timesheets and contracts have always been and will always be available for his perusal.  We have even offered to provide copies of these documents several times.  The client does still owe us money for work completed.  We took a very messy website and made it much cleaner than it was.  However, had we created a new website, as we suggested, it would have been much nicer and would have cost much less.

The lesson here is to get all the paper work up front, estimates in writing and do not trust a techie who is nothing more that a geekie looking con man. I am now convinced that I was strung along to get money from me, and when he knew that there was no more coming, He drummed up the excuse of dis-respect of his office employee just to get out of his committment. K-sam Kanab, Utah
U.S.A.

On this one point we will agree, all work should be done off of a contract.  After this client, we learned our lesson.  All web work we have done from that point on has been strictly what is written in the contract, nothing more, nothing less.  If additional work is requested, an additional contract is drawn up.

Since this incident, we have created many other websites for very satisfied clients.  Their names and numbers are available upon request.  If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact us by email: [email protected]  We can even show you his original website provided and what the site was when we were finished with it.
*Note:  The provided image is of the content provided to us, please note the dates on the items span 7/17/08 - 10/20/08.  His expectations of having a website completed in "a few weeks" was impossible as the content was provided over the course of a few months.

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I've dealt with Techies once before. I gave them a specific job and requirements. They responded with a quote, lacking detail. After several emails supplying pieces of the detail, they stopped answering me. At that point, I just walked away from them.

Tis' the nature of the beast. Just having a company does not a professional make. If you're not familiar enough with the technology and don't feel certain about the company, find an intermediary to handle it. Look around your organization and others in the area and ask for such people. For instance, I'm a retired engr., and do free work for local organizations. For development, I'll either steer you towards somebody you can trust, or act as an intermediary to prevent what happened here. I know only one good web developer in town. But there are several other like me around. Check with the Volunteer Center, or the Ham Radio Club, or other similar groups and you'll find me or another who can help you.