Marcie
Glen Allen,#2Author of original report
Mon, August 30, 2004
The following is in reference to my credit card experience discussed previously (see above). Below are excerpts from a letter I received from Bank One after sending my follow-up letter explaining the difficulty of disputing a service prior to it occurring. I had also forwarded ALL documentation to the 'Office of the Comptroller of the Currency' (my original letter to the OCC simply requested them to look into why I had not received any response from Bank One). FYI, in my list of government agencies above I did not state that the 'Customer Assistance Group' was the OCC. The entire address is: Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) Customer Assistance Group 1301 McKinney Street Suite 3450 Houston, TX 77010 Dear Marcie: I am writing in response to the concerns you addressed to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. I appreciate this opportunity to assist you on behalf of the Office of the President at Bank One, Delaware, N.A. I understand that you are dissatisfied with the resolution of your dispute with VanGuard Tours and CRA...As a credit card issuer, we must comply with certain guidelines that govern the dispute process. At times, we find that some of these guidelines may prevent us from achieving the resolutions that our Cardmembers are seeking. ...I sincerely empathize with the frustration you had to endure while on your vacation. While it is unfortunate that the services you were provided were not what you had expected, because the tour was completed, we were were unable to file a dispute against the merchant for the quality of the tour. I understand that Holland America Line Inc. has agreed to extend credit for future travel in the amount of $600.00. In an effort to provide you with a more favorable resolution to your dispute...we are willing to accept an internal loss and credit your account in the amount of $600.00. If you choose to take advantage of this offer, please contact me within two weeks from the date on this letter, to notify us of your acceptance. At that time, we will send the appropriate paperwork for your review and signed acknowledgement... I am going to contact her today to request that she forward the paperwork to see what I am being requested to sign in order to receive the credit. This does not approach the amount that I requested, but it is certainly more than what VanGuard offered (which was NOTHING/ZERO!). Because of a couple of previous conversations along with the original letter from Bank One documented previously, I am confident that it was the letter/s to the OCC that prompted Bank One to extend this offer. If enough people complain to their credit card company and corresponding government agency it could potentially keep them from accepting business from these companies.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#3Author of original report
Wed, August 25, 2004
While doing more research I discovered the following website: http://www.traveltipsmagazine.com/watchlist.html which is a page from 'Travel Tips Magazine' (http://www.traveltipsmagazine.com). The content of the page is below: WATCH LIST The following companies have run advertisements and either refused to pay or bounced checks without restitution. To protect our readers we will not be accepting advertisements, press-releases or postings from these companies. If you have any questions, please e-mail us. Vanguard Tours and Cruises Alexandria, Virginia Insightful Journeys Boston, MA 4 Bears Casino South Dakota Escape Holidays San Diego, CA All in One Tour Service Dallas, TX American Classic Shows Branson, MO
Marcie
Glen Allen,#4Author of original report
Mon, August 23, 2004
I received the following letter yesterday from the 'City of Alexandria, Virginia, Citizen Assistance Office'. Because of the previous conversation documented above I knew it was coming and had already been briefed concerning the contents: This letter is regarding the complaint you filed with this office. Our attempts to mediate this complaint were unsuccessful. Unfortunately, we are not empowered to require the business to resolve your complaint through our office. A copy of "Small Claims Court Procedure" is enclosed for your review, in the event you want to pursue this claim in court. I am sorry this office cannot be of further assistance to you. Your complaint, however, will be kept on file in our public records for three years. Sincerely, Jacqueline Levy Consumer Affairs Administrator (703) 838-4350 Although Ms. Levy and her office are not empowered to do more I would like to thank her for the information she was able to provide. She seemed sympathetic to my plight as her office had received the many complaints specific to 'VanGuard Tours & Cruises' and commented on the lack of regulation in the travel industry. This lack of strong regulation can leave the door open for unscrupulous businesses and business practices.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#5Author of original report
Tue, August 17, 2004
I received a response yesterday (5/17/04) from the 'City of Alexandria, Virginia, Citizen Assistance Office' (see full address previously). The letter stated that VanGuard had replied and to contact the 'Citizen Assistance Office' ((703) 838-4350) if I had any questions. The enclosures that VanGuard supplied the 'Assistance Office' were copies of VanGuard's and Holland America's original responses to me (see letters above) which I had provided the 'Assistance Office' myself when filing the complaint. VanGuard's cover letter was consistent in that they deny any responsibility for anything. Mr. Barnes stated "we presented her case to Holland America and they offered her a substantial travel credit" (I won't even go into that again), and "there is nothing more that we can do". He also included the rebuttal letter above from the Dietrichs that an employee named Don submitted (who's Don?). Anyway, I did make a phone call to the 'Citizen Assistance Office' where I was told that (like the BBB) they were not allowed to provide specific information concerning complaints. However; the person I talked to was able to tell me that VanGuard has numerous complaints filed against them and that one particular person who had seen my complaint online was filing under the "Freedom of Information Act" to obtain my name from their office in order to contact me ([email protected]@AICI). Apparently, the "VanGuard Group's" trip to Alaska was not the only fiasco. I was told he was representing another "VanGuard Group" that went to Normandy and that their complaints were similar to mine, but due to the older average age of the group the situation was even worse (if that's possible). I will update this site as I get more information.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#6Author of original report
Sat, August 14, 2004
I will assume that the Dietrich's of Asheville are real people and actually took the same cruise. That said, you did not state whether they took the second week which consisted entirely of the LAND TOUR. I have already stated that the first week on ship was satisfactory so I fail to see the point you are attempting to make. The Dietrich's issue involves a "mix-up" on board ship ("Based on information we received from a crew member ON THE RYNDAM..."). There were no crew members ON THE BUSES. You also don't provide any details of the "mix-up" (Did the Dietrich's not get chocolate on their pillows one night?). The letter would imply that they are happy with THEIR resolution, but you don't provide any details as to what it was. For example, VanGuard has offered me NOTHING and Holland America has simply offered me a $600.00 discount on a FUTURE cruise. $600 as a percentage of the amount I paid ($10,222) is .05 (yes, that is a period prior to the zero). In addition, I am seeking a resolution to THIS trip, not one in the future. What exactly was the Dietrich's "mix-up"? What exactly was THEIR resolution? What did the Dietrich's pay for their trip? What was the value of their resolution as a percentage of what they paid? The fact is that VanGuard still has an "opportunity to assist" and I would welcome a 50% credit to my VISA account after which I will be more than happy to write a letter containing something along the lines of: "How an agency resolves legitimate complaints is one of the most important indicators of its corporate integrity...."
Don
Alexandria,#7UPDATE Employee
Fri, August 13, 2004
VanGuard received a letter dated July 26, 2004, from Mr. & Mrs. Dietrich of Asheville, NC, who were on this same cruise. The following quote from their letter speaks for itself: "In their 8 July letter to us, Holland America has taken full responsibility for the mix-up involving our traveling group. Based on information we received from a crew member on the Ryndam, we believed the error was VanGuard's. We sincerely apologize for mistakenly blaming this incident on your company...How an agency resolves legitimate complaints is one of the most important indicators of its corporate integrity. Your responsiveness impresses us! We would not hesitate to use or recommend VanGuard in the future." The fact is that Marcie from Glen Allen, VA, did not contact us on our toll-free 800 number when she experienced problems. We were never given an opportunity to assist. The problems were nothing we had control over. We did our best to assist after the fact but remained the target of her anger.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#8Author of original report
Thu, August 12, 2004
In an effort to pursue some degree of justice I have mailed copies of my letter and responses from VanGuard and Holland America to the following: BBB of Metro Washington DC and Eastern Pennsylvania WWW: http://www.dc.bbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (202)393-8000 Fax: (202)393-1198 1411 K St., NW, 10th Floor Washington, DC 20005 -3404 They have notified me of their receipt of my documentation, but I have heard nothing additional thus far. I will update this site when I do. However; I suspect the end result will be similar to the BBB of Oregon and Western Washington below. ************************************************** Better Business Bureau of Oregon and Western Washington WWW: http://www.thebbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (206)431-2222 Fax: (206)431-2211 PO Box 1000 DuPont, WA 98327 - Below is text from my BBB case number followed by additional communication between the BBB and myself. By simply responding (in any manner) to a complaint will result in a "no complaints outstanding" response from a BBB when another consumer calls regarding a company. Although I would still encourage anyone to file reports with a BBB it would appear to me they are essentially powerless and do not provide any useful information to consumers. You be the judge: Complaint filed against: Holland America Line Westours Inc Business Info NAME: Holland America Line Westours Inc BBB MEMBER: YES CONTACT: Ms Tiffany Bergman ADDRESS: 300 Elliott Ave W Seattle, WA 98119 PHONE: 206 281-3535 FAX: 206 281-7110 Consumer rejects business' final offer Activity Date Activity Description 08/12/2004 Consumer rejects business' final offer (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Holland America has not proposed a resolution. NO ONE has called me to work toward a personal solution for me. Holland America has become a company that does not really offer customer service. They want your money but are NOT willing to give you the SERVICE they used to offer as part of the Holland America name and reputation. I am very disappointed in a company I used to hear so many good things about. 08/11/2004 Forward Final Response to Consumer CLT.cf.rtf 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. 08/10/2004 Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business 08/04/2004 Received Consumer Rebuttal (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Discount on a FUTURE CRUISE?? The level of service I paid for on the Alaskan cruise/tour was not delivered. I want the price difference in what I paid for, and what was delivered refunded. I am not asking for all the money back, but instead I am asking for what is fair. It is insulting that a "discount" on a future trip is being offered rather than addressing the current issue. Below is e-mail communication between the BBB and myself: This is in reference to case # 22011531 (Oregon and Western Washington BBB): When one does not receive satisfaction: 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. Where does one go from here? What does the statement below mean? *** We are waiting for the business to respond. They have until August 15, 2004 to respond to this complaint. If they do not respond the complaint will be closed and this will be reflected in their record. *** What information will be available when another consumer calls the BBB and requests information regarding this company? Will other consumers be provided with the detailed information of my complaint in order to make a personal assessment of the company? If not, what is the service that the BBB actually provides to the consumer? (i.e. I am still left dissatisfied and if my detailed case is not available to the public what value does the BBB provide the consumer?). Dear Mrs xxxxxxx, Thank you for your email and response regarding Holland America Line Westours Inc., your concerns are appreciated. The Better Business Bureau is a private neutral third party. By working with each party to more fully understand the other's position, often times we are able to reach a mutually agreeable resolution. The role of the Better Business Bureau is to facilitate communication between businesses and consumers and ensure that all issues have been addressed by the business. As a neutral third party, the Better Business Bureau cannot ask or require the business to agree with the consumer, only that they address the consumer's concerns. Please see the attached BBB Service Guide for a complete list of what the Better Business Bureau offers. Additionally, responding to consumers concerns does not necessarily mean offering anything, it simply means providing their position on the matter, which is all that the BBB can require. We understand that you do not consider the matter resolved and the notes of your case reflect your dissatisfaction and experience. For confidentiality purposes, we do not share the nature of complaints or specific information about customers who filed complaints. Sincerely, Rebekah Crowley Bureau Services Consultant [email protected] Direct fax 206-436-5429 **************************************************************************** City of Alexandria, Virginia Citizen Assistance Office Consumer Affairs Division P.O. Box 178 Alexandria, Virginia 22313 They have sent me a copy of a letter that they sent to VanGuard. The letter was dated July 29th and VanGuard was told to respond to their office within ten days. I currently have not received anything. ******************************************************************************************************************************************* Washington State Attorney General Consumer Resource Center Seattle - King, Snohomish, Clallam and Jefferson Counties 900 Fourth Ave. Suite 2000 Seattle, WA. 98164-1012 Telephone: 206-464-6684 Fax: 206-464-6451 They have copied me on a letter sent to Holland America. I will update when I receive any response. ****************************************************************************************************************************** I have also sent a letter along with all documentation to my credit card company requesting a credit for a portion of the total charged. I received a response from them today. The following is an excerpt from the letter: Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding your credit card account. We are writing concerning your dispute about the charge from Vanguard Tours & Cruises that posted to your account on February 27, 2004. Due to the nature of your dispute, we will need a copy of a valid credit slip from this merchant in order to pursue any type of credit on your behalf. We do understand that you were not satisfied with your trip with this merchant, because you did receive the services provided, we are unable to remove the charge from your account in any amount without a credit slip from the merchant. Also, federal credit card regulations require that we receive written notice of any dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears. This time limit is explained on the back of each monthly billing statement. We received your letter about this charge on July 26, 2004, which is beyond the 60-day time limit. As a result, we regret that we are unable to help you. Sincerely, Elizabeth George, Financial Service Advisor,BankOne Question: Since VanGuard billed for the total 90 days prior to the tour date of 5/28 how would I make "a written notice of dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears" if the service had yet to be rendered? You be the judge on whether this is coincidence or if VanGuard, Holland America, and credit card companies are aware of this. I am still going to pursue it by forwarding my VanGuard invoice along with some degree of logic as to the inability to dispute a service prior to the service actually occurring (maybe I need a crystal ball). Also, the agencies below are suppose to "light a fire" under your credit card company if they don't respond to your issues. Again, responding can simply consist of sending a letter stating "dream on". Customer Assistance Group 1301 McKinney Street Suite 3450 Houston, TX 77010 FDIC Headquarters Telephone number: 202-736-0000 Mailing address: Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 550 17th Street NW Washington, DC 20429-9990 Area of responsibility: All insured banks Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System Division of Consumer and Community Affairs 20th and C Streets, N.W., Stop 801 Washington, DC 20551 For further information you may call us at (202) 452-3693 How to File a Complaint Before writing or calling the Federal Reserve, we encourage consumers to try to settle the problem with the financial institution first. This may involve directly contacting senior bank management or the bank's customer service representative for assistance. If you are still unable to resolve the problem, you may file a written complaint with the Federal Reserve including the following information: Your name, address and daytime telephone number, including area code; Name and address of the bank involved in your complaint or inquiry; Your bank or credit card account number; The name of the person you contacted at the bank, along with the date, if applicable; Description of the complaint. State what happened, giving the dates involved and the names of those you dealt with at the bank. Include copies of any letters or other documents that may help us to investigate your complaint. Please do not send original documents, copies are preferred; and remember to sign and date your letter. It's important to give us as much information about the problem as possible; this will assist us in providing a quicker response to you.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#9Author of original report
Thu, August 12, 2004
In an effort to pursue some degree of justice I have mailed copies of my letter and responses from VanGuard and Holland America to the following: BBB of Metro Washington DC and Eastern Pennsylvania WWW: http://www.dc.bbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (202)393-8000 Fax: (202)393-1198 1411 K St., NW, 10th Floor Washington, DC 20005 -3404 They have notified me of their receipt of my documentation, but I have heard nothing additional thus far. I will update this site when I do. However; I suspect the end result will be similar to the BBB of Oregon and Western Washington below. ************************************************** Better Business Bureau of Oregon and Western Washington WWW: http://www.thebbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (206)431-2222 Fax: (206)431-2211 PO Box 1000 DuPont, WA 98327 - Below is text from my BBB case number followed by additional communication between the BBB and myself. By simply responding (in any manner) to a complaint will result in a "no complaints outstanding" response from a BBB when another consumer calls regarding a company. Although I would still encourage anyone to file reports with a BBB it would appear to me they are essentially powerless and do not provide any useful information to consumers. You be the judge: Complaint filed against: Holland America Line Westours Inc Business Info NAME: Holland America Line Westours Inc BBB MEMBER: YES CONTACT: Ms Tiffany Bergman ADDRESS: 300 Elliott Ave W Seattle, WA 98119 PHONE: 206 281-3535 FAX: 206 281-7110 Consumer rejects business' final offer Activity Date Activity Description 08/12/2004 Consumer rejects business' final offer (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Holland America has not proposed a resolution. NO ONE has called me to work toward a personal solution for me. Holland America has become a company that does not really offer customer service. They want your money but are NOT willing to give you the SERVICE they used to offer as part of the Holland America name and reputation. I am very disappointed in a company I used to hear so many good things about. 08/11/2004 Forward Final Response to Consumer CLT.cf.rtf 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. 08/10/2004 Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business 08/04/2004 Received Consumer Rebuttal (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Discount on a FUTURE CRUISE?? The level of service I paid for on the Alaskan cruise/tour was not delivered. I want the price difference in what I paid for, and what was delivered refunded. I am not asking for all the money back, but instead I am asking for what is fair. It is insulting that a "discount" on a future trip is being offered rather than addressing the current issue. Below is e-mail communication between the BBB and myself: This is in reference to case # 22011531 (Oregon and Western Washington BBB): When one does not receive satisfaction: 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. Where does one go from here? What does the statement below mean? *** We are waiting for the business to respond. They have until August 15, 2004 to respond to this complaint. If they do not respond the complaint will be closed and this will be reflected in their record. *** What information will be available when another consumer calls the BBB and requests information regarding this company? Will other consumers be provided with the detailed information of my complaint in order to make a personal assessment of the company? If not, what is the service that the BBB actually provides to the consumer? (i.e. I am still left dissatisfied and if my detailed case is not available to the public what value does the BBB provide the consumer?). Dear Mrs xxxxxxx, Thank you for your email and response regarding Holland America Line Westours Inc., your concerns are appreciated. The Better Business Bureau is a private neutral third party. By working with each party to more fully understand the other's position, often times we are able to reach a mutually agreeable resolution. The role of the Better Business Bureau is to facilitate communication between businesses and consumers and ensure that all issues have been addressed by the business. As a neutral third party, the Better Business Bureau cannot ask or require the business to agree with the consumer, only that they address the consumer's concerns. Please see the attached BBB Service Guide for a complete list of what the Better Business Bureau offers. Additionally, responding to consumers concerns does not necessarily mean offering anything, it simply means providing their position on the matter, which is all that the BBB can require. We understand that you do not consider the matter resolved and the notes of your case reflect your dissatisfaction and experience. For confidentiality purposes, we do not share the nature of complaints or specific information about customers who filed complaints. Sincerely, Rebekah Crowley Bureau Services Consultant [email protected] Direct fax 206-436-5429 **************************************************************************** City of Alexandria, Virginia Citizen Assistance Office Consumer Affairs Division P.O. Box 178 Alexandria, Virginia 22313 They have sent me a copy of a letter that they sent to VanGuard. The letter was dated July 29th and VanGuard was told to respond to their office within ten days. I currently have not received anything. ******************************************************************************************************************************************* Washington State Attorney General Consumer Resource Center Seattle - King, Snohomish, Clallam and Jefferson Counties 900 Fourth Ave. Suite 2000 Seattle, WA. 98164-1012 Telephone: 206-464-6684 Fax: 206-464-6451 They have copied me on a letter sent to Holland America. I will update when I receive any response. ****************************************************************************************************************************** I have also sent a letter along with all documentation to my credit card company requesting a credit for a portion of the total charged. I received a response from them today. The following is an excerpt from the letter: Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding your credit card account. We are writing concerning your dispute about the charge from Vanguard Tours & Cruises that posted to your account on February 27, 2004. Due to the nature of your dispute, we will need a copy of a valid credit slip from this merchant in order to pursue any type of credit on your behalf. We do understand that you were not satisfied with your trip with this merchant, because you did receive the services provided, we are unable to remove the charge from your account in any amount without a credit slip from the merchant. Also, federal credit card regulations require that we receive written notice of any dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears. This time limit is explained on the back of each monthly billing statement. We received your letter about this charge on July 26, 2004, which is beyond the 60-day time limit. As a result, we regret that we are unable to help you. Sincerely, Elizabeth George, Financial Service Advisor,BankOne Question: Since VanGuard billed for the total 90 days prior to the tour date of 5/28 how would I make "a written notice of dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears" if the service had yet to be rendered? You be the judge on whether this is coincidence or if VanGuard, Holland America, and credit card companies are aware of this. I am still going to pursue it by forwarding my VanGuard invoice along with some degree of logic as to the inability to dispute a service prior to the service actually occurring (maybe I need a crystal ball). Also, the agencies below are suppose to "light a fire" under your credit card company if they don't respond to your issues. Again, responding can simply consist of sending a letter stating "dream on". Customer Assistance Group 1301 McKinney Street Suite 3450 Houston, TX 77010 FDIC Headquarters Telephone number: 202-736-0000 Mailing address: Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 550 17th Street NW Washington, DC 20429-9990 Area of responsibility: All insured banks Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System Division of Consumer and Community Affairs 20th and C Streets, N.W., Stop 801 Washington, DC 20551 For further information you may call us at (202) 452-3693 How to File a Complaint Before writing or calling the Federal Reserve, we encourage consumers to try to settle the problem with the financial institution first. This may involve directly contacting senior bank management or the bank's customer service representative for assistance. If you are still unable to resolve the problem, you may file a written complaint with the Federal Reserve including the following information: Your name, address and daytime telephone number, including area code; Name and address of the bank involved in your complaint or inquiry; Your bank or credit card account number; The name of the person you contacted at the bank, along with the date, if applicable; Description of the complaint. State what happened, giving the dates involved and the names of those you dealt with at the bank. Include copies of any letters or other documents that may help us to investigate your complaint. Please do not send original documents, copies are preferred; and remember to sign and date your letter. It's important to give us as much information about the problem as possible; this will assist us in providing a quicker response to you.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#10Author of original report
Thu, August 12, 2004
In an effort to pursue some degree of justice I have mailed copies of my letter and responses from VanGuard and Holland America to the following: BBB of Metro Washington DC and Eastern Pennsylvania WWW: http://www.dc.bbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (202)393-8000 Fax: (202)393-1198 1411 K St., NW, 10th Floor Washington, DC 20005 -3404 They have notified me of their receipt of my documentation, but I have heard nothing additional thus far. I will update this site when I do. However; I suspect the end result will be similar to the BBB of Oregon and Western Washington below. ************************************************** Better Business Bureau of Oregon and Western Washington WWW: http://www.thebbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (206)431-2222 Fax: (206)431-2211 PO Box 1000 DuPont, WA 98327 - Below is text from my BBB case number followed by additional communication between the BBB and myself. By simply responding (in any manner) to a complaint will result in a "no complaints outstanding" response from a BBB when another consumer calls regarding a company. Although I would still encourage anyone to file reports with a BBB it would appear to me they are essentially powerless and do not provide any useful information to consumers. You be the judge: Complaint filed against: Holland America Line Westours Inc Business Info NAME: Holland America Line Westours Inc BBB MEMBER: YES CONTACT: Ms Tiffany Bergman ADDRESS: 300 Elliott Ave W Seattle, WA 98119 PHONE: 206 281-3535 FAX: 206 281-7110 Consumer rejects business' final offer Activity Date Activity Description 08/12/2004 Consumer rejects business' final offer (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Holland America has not proposed a resolution. NO ONE has called me to work toward a personal solution for me. Holland America has become a company that does not really offer customer service. They want your money but are NOT willing to give you the SERVICE they used to offer as part of the Holland America name and reputation. I am very disappointed in a company I used to hear so many good things about. 08/11/2004 Forward Final Response to Consumer CLT.cf.rtf 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. 08/10/2004 Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business 08/04/2004 Received Consumer Rebuttal (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Discount on a FUTURE CRUISE?? The level of service I paid for on the Alaskan cruise/tour was not delivered. I want the price difference in what I paid for, and what was delivered refunded. I am not asking for all the money back, but instead I am asking for what is fair. It is insulting that a "discount" on a future trip is being offered rather than addressing the current issue. Below is e-mail communication between the BBB and myself: This is in reference to case # 22011531 (Oregon and Western Washington BBB): When one does not receive satisfaction: 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. Where does one go from here? What does the statement below mean? *** We are waiting for the business to respond. They have until August 15, 2004 to respond to this complaint. If they do not respond the complaint will be closed and this will be reflected in their record. *** What information will be available when another consumer calls the BBB and requests information regarding this company? Will other consumers be provided with the detailed information of my complaint in order to make a personal assessment of the company? If not, what is the service that the BBB actually provides to the consumer? (i.e. I am still left dissatisfied and if my detailed case is not available to the public what value does the BBB provide the consumer?). Dear Mrs xxxxxxx, Thank you for your email and response regarding Holland America Line Westours Inc., your concerns are appreciated. The Better Business Bureau is a private neutral third party. By working with each party to more fully understand the other's position, often times we are able to reach a mutually agreeable resolution. The role of the Better Business Bureau is to facilitate communication between businesses and consumers and ensure that all issues have been addressed by the business. As a neutral third party, the Better Business Bureau cannot ask or require the business to agree with the consumer, only that they address the consumer's concerns. Please see the attached BBB Service Guide for a complete list of what the Better Business Bureau offers. Additionally, responding to consumers concerns does not necessarily mean offering anything, it simply means providing their position on the matter, which is all that the BBB can require. We understand that you do not consider the matter resolved and the notes of your case reflect your dissatisfaction and experience. For confidentiality purposes, we do not share the nature of complaints or specific information about customers who filed complaints. Sincerely, Rebekah Crowley Bureau Services Consultant [email protected] Direct fax 206-436-5429 **************************************************************************** City of Alexandria, Virginia Citizen Assistance Office Consumer Affairs Division P.O. Box 178 Alexandria, Virginia 22313 They have sent me a copy of a letter that they sent to VanGuard. The letter was dated July 29th and VanGuard was told to respond to their office within ten days. I currently have not received anything. ******************************************************************************************************************************************* Washington State Attorney General Consumer Resource Center Seattle - King, Snohomish, Clallam and Jefferson Counties 900 Fourth Ave. Suite 2000 Seattle, WA. 98164-1012 Telephone: 206-464-6684 Fax: 206-464-6451 They have copied me on a letter sent to Holland America. I will update when I receive any response. ****************************************************************************************************************************** I have also sent a letter along with all documentation to my credit card company requesting a credit for a portion of the total charged. I received a response from them today. The following is an excerpt from the letter: Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding your credit card account. We are writing concerning your dispute about the charge from Vanguard Tours & Cruises that posted to your account on February 27, 2004. Due to the nature of your dispute, we will need a copy of a valid credit slip from this merchant in order to pursue any type of credit on your behalf. We do understand that you were not satisfied with your trip with this merchant, because you did receive the services provided, we are unable to remove the charge from your account in any amount without a credit slip from the merchant. Also, federal credit card regulations require that we receive written notice of any dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears. This time limit is explained on the back of each monthly billing statement. We received your letter about this charge on July 26, 2004, which is beyond the 60-day time limit. As a result, we regret that we are unable to help you. Sincerely, Elizabeth George, Financial Service Advisor,BankOne Question: Since VanGuard billed for the total 90 days prior to the tour date of 5/28 how would I make "a written notice of dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears" if the service had yet to be rendered? You be the judge on whether this is coincidence or if VanGuard, Holland America, and credit card companies are aware of this. I am still going to pursue it by forwarding my VanGuard invoice along with some degree of logic as to the inability to dispute a service prior to the service actually occurring (maybe I need a crystal ball). Also, the agencies below are suppose to "light a fire" under your credit card company if they don't respond to your issues. Again, responding can simply consist of sending a letter stating "dream on". Customer Assistance Group 1301 McKinney Street Suite 3450 Houston, TX 77010 FDIC Headquarters Telephone number: 202-736-0000 Mailing address: Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 550 17th Street NW Washington, DC 20429-9990 Area of responsibility: All insured banks Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System Division of Consumer and Community Affairs 20th and C Streets, N.W., Stop 801 Washington, DC 20551 For further information you may call us at (202) 452-3693 How to File a Complaint Before writing or calling the Federal Reserve, we encourage consumers to try to settle the problem with the financial institution first. This may involve directly contacting senior bank management or the bank's customer service representative for assistance. If you are still unable to resolve the problem, you may file a written complaint with the Federal Reserve including the following information: Your name, address and daytime telephone number, including area code; Name and address of the bank involved in your complaint or inquiry; Your bank or credit card account number; The name of the person you contacted at the bank, along with the date, if applicable; Description of the complaint. State what happened, giving the dates involved and the names of those you dealt with at the bank. Include copies of any letters or other documents that may help us to investigate your complaint. Please do not send original documents, copies are preferred; and remember to sign and date your letter. It's important to give us as much information about the problem as possible; this will assist us in providing a quicker response to you.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#11Author of original report
Thu, August 12, 2004
In an effort to pursue some degree of justice I have mailed copies of my letter and responses from VanGuard and Holland America to the following: BBB of Metro Washington DC and Eastern Pennsylvania WWW: http://www.dc.bbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (202)393-8000 Fax: (202)393-1198 1411 K St., NW, 10th Floor Washington, DC 20005 -3404 They have notified me of their receipt of my documentation, but I have heard nothing additional thus far. I will update this site when I do. However; I suspect the end result will be similar to the BBB of Oregon and Western Washington below. ************************************************** Better Business Bureau of Oregon and Western Washington WWW: http://www.thebbb.org Email: [email protected] Phone: (206)431-2222 Fax: (206)431-2211 PO Box 1000 DuPont, WA 98327 - Below is text from my BBB case number followed by additional communication between the BBB and myself. By simply responding (in any manner) to a complaint will result in a "no complaints outstanding" response from a BBB when another consumer calls regarding a company. Although I would still encourage anyone to file reports with a BBB it would appear to me they are essentially powerless and do not provide any useful information to consumers. You be the judge: Complaint filed against: Holland America Line Westours Inc Business Info NAME: Holland America Line Westours Inc BBB MEMBER: YES CONTACT: Ms Tiffany Bergman ADDRESS: 300 Elliott Ave W Seattle, WA 98119 PHONE: 206 281-3535 FAX: 206 281-7110 Consumer rejects business' final offer Activity Date Activity Description 08/12/2004 Consumer rejects business' final offer (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Holland America has not proposed a resolution. NO ONE has called me to work toward a personal solution for me. Holland America has become a company that does not really offer customer service. They want your money but are NOT willing to give you the SERVICE they used to offer as part of the Holland America name and reputation. I am very disappointed in a company I used to hear so many good things about. 08/11/2004 Forward Final Response to Consumer CLT.cf.rtf 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. 08/10/2004 Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business 08/04/2004 Received Consumer Rebuttal (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) Discount on a FUTURE CRUISE?? The level of service I paid for on the Alaskan cruise/tour was not delivered. I want the price difference in what I paid for, and what was delivered refunded. I am not asking for all the money back, but instead I am asking for what is fair. It is insulting that a "discount" on a future trip is being offered rather than addressing the current issue. Below is e-mail communication between the BBB and myself: This is in reference to case # 22011531 (Oregon and Western Washington BBB): When one does not receive satisfaction: 08/10/2004 Received Final Response from Business While we regret Mrs. xxxxxxx's continued disappointment, we are not in a position to offer further compensation or a cash refund in this matter. Where does one go from here? What does the statement below mean? *** We are waiting for the business to respond. They have until August 15, 2004 to respond to this complaint. If they do not respond the complaint will be closed and this will be reflected in their record. *** What information will be available when another consumer calls the BBB and requests information regarding this company? Will other consumers be provided with the detailed information of my complaint in order to make a personal assessment of the company? If not, what is the service that the BBB actually provides to the consumer? (i.e. I am still left dissatisfied and if my detailed case is not available to the public what value does the BBB provide the consumer?). Dear Mrs xxxxxxx, Thank you for your email and response regarding Holland America Line Westours Inc., your concerns are appreciated. The Better Business Bureau is a private neutral third party. By working with each party to more fully understand the other's position, often times we are able to reach a mutually agreeable resolution. The role of the Better Business Bureau is to facilitate communication between businesses and consumers and ensure that all issues have been addressed by the business. As a neutral third party, the Better Business Bureau cannot ask or require the business to agree with the consumer, only that they address the consumer's concerns. Please see the attached BBB Service Guide for a complete list of what the Better Business Bureau offers. Additionally, responding to consumers concerns does not necessarily mean offering anything, it simply means providing their position on the matter, which is all that the BBB can require. We understand that you do not consider the matter resolved and the notes of your case reflect your dissatisfaction and experience. For confidentiality purposes, we do not share the nature of complaints or specific information about customers who filed complaints. Sincerely, Rebekah Crowley Bureau Services Consultant [email protected] Direct fax 206-436-5429 **************************************************************************** City of Alexandria, Virginia Citizen Assistance Office Consumer Affairs Division P.O. Box 178 Alexandria, Virginia 22313 They have sent me a copy of a letter that they sent to VanGuard. The letter was dated July 29th and VanGuard was told to respond to their office within ten days. I currently have not received anything. ******************************************************************************************************************************************* Washington State Attorney General Consumer Resource Center Seattle - King, Snohomish, Clallam and Jefferson Counties 900 Fourth Ave. Suite 2000 Seattle, WA. 98164-1012 Telephone: 206-464-6684 Fax: 206-464-6451 They have copied me on a letter sent to Holland America. I will update when I receive any response. ****************************************************************************************************************************** I have also sent a letter along with all documentation to my credit card company requesting a credit for a portion of the total charged. I received a response from them today. The following is an excerpt from the letter: Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding your credit card account. We are writing concerning your dispute about the charge from Vanguard Tours & Cruises that posted to your account on February 27, 2004. Due to the nature of your dispute, we will need a copy of a valid credit slip from this merchant in order to pursue any type of credit on your behalf. We do understand that you were not satisfied with your trip with this merchant, because you did receive the services provided, we are unable to remove the charge from your account in any amount without a credit slip from the merchant. Also, federal credit card regulations require that we receive written notice of any dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears. This time limit is explained on the back of each monthly billing statement. We received your letter about this charge on July 26, 2004, which is beyond the 60-day time limit. As a result, we regret that we are unable to help you. Sincerely, Elizabeth George, Financial Service Advisor,BankOne Question: Since VanGuard billed for the total 90 days prior to the tour date of 5/28 how would I make "a written notice of dispute within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge first appears" if the service had yet to be rendered? You be the judge on whether this is coincidence or if VanGuard, Holland America, and credit card companies are aware of this. I am still going to pursue it by forwarding my VanGuard invoice along with some degree of logic as to the inability to dispute a service prior to the service actually occurring (maybe I need a crystal ball). Also, the agencies below are suppose to "light a fire" under your credit card company if they don't respond to your issues. Again, responding can simply consist of sending a letter stating "dream on". Customer Assistance Group 1301 McKinney Street Suite 3450 Houston, TX 77010 FDIC Headquarters Telephone number: 202-736-0000 Mailing address: Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 550 17th Street NW Washington, DC 20429-9990 Area of responsibility: All insured banks Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System Division of Consumer and Community Affairs 20th and C Streets, N.W., Stop 801 Washington, DC 20551 For further information you may call us at (202) 452-3693 How to File a Complaint Before writing or calling the Federal Reserve, we encourage consumers to try to settle the problem with the financial institution first. This may involve directly contacting senior bank management or the bank's customer service representative for assistance. If you are still unable to resolve the problem, you may file a written complaint with the Federal Reserve including the following information: Your name, address and daytime telephone number, including area code; Name and address of the bank involved in your complaint or inquiry; Your bank or credit card account number; The name of the person you contacted at the bank, along with the date, if applicable; Description of the complaint. State what happened, giving the dates involved and the names of those you dealt with at the bank. Include copies of any letters or other documents that may help us to investigate your complaint. Please do not send original documents, copies are preferred; and remember to sign and date your letter. It's important to give us as much information about the problem as possible; this will assist us in providing a quicker response to you.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#12Author of original report
Fri, July 30, 2004
I just received the following letter via registered mail from VanGuard Tours: We at VanGuard are very surprised and disturbed to learn of your posted complaint on Rip-Off Report.com. As a company that prides itself on customer service, we are outraged that you would attempt to publicly smear our good name, especially in light of the fact that none of your problems are a direct result of VanGuard and especially in light of our extended efforts to plead your case to Holland America. Your complaint alleges that VanGuard in some way cheated you. However, after reviewing your detailed complaint, it is evident that your frustration has been misdirected towards VanGuard. If you review the material (literature, website and video) that you received from VanGuard, you will note that every part of the package explained to you and promised by VanGuard was in fact delivered. When we sold the program to you, we made it clear that the program was to be hosted by Holland America and not VanGuard. In fact, VanGuard never promised to have a VanGuard staff member escort you. As a result, none of the items that you attribute to VanGuard-the buses, the lack of seats in the hotel, the poorly guided tour, the rude staff members, etc.-are attributable to VanGuard or a VanGuard staff member. Rather, each of your complaints relate to a Holland America staff member, a Holland America tour, a specific hotel, a bus or a tour organized by Holland America. When you started experiencing problems, we wish you would have contacted us on the toll-free phone number which we provided to you and which we encourage people to call. If we had been informed of your problems, we could have attempted to immediately fix them. However, since you failed to contact us until after the trip was over, we were not given the opportunity to assist you. Since contacting VanGuard with your frustrations, we have been in contact with Holland America and used our best efforts to make sure that Holland America compensates you in any manner which they are able to. In addition, we have expressed our disappointment to Holland America, with whom we have worked closely over the years. Because none of your frustration is directly attributable to VanGuard or a VanGuard staff member, we would appreciate your immediate retraction and removal of your posted complaint against VanGuard and the VanGuard staff. If you do not remove your complaint from Rip-Off Report.com within 48 hours of receiving this letter, we will be contacting attorneys to determine what legal means we may take in order to protect ourselves and our good name from your smear campaign. Sincerely, Frank W. Barnes President xc: Barbara Stephano, Esquire ============= Per my original letter, many representatives were contacted DURING the trip to express my frustration. Since, as Louise told me when arranging the trip and per your letter above, VanGuard has "worked closely over the years" with Holland America I was sure that VanGuard was being made aware of my complaints as they were occuring. Maybe you don't work as closely as you think. You list in detail everything that VanGuard does not take responsibity for leaving only one thing out: charging my VISA account. This was performed superbly.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#13Author of original report
Fri, July 30, 2004
Dear Marcie, Thank you for the letter regarding your ms Ryndam cruisetour on May 26, 2004. We truly appreciate the valuable feedback you have provided us. On behalf of Holland America Line, we sincerely apologize for the long lines and disorganization that you experienced at some times through the tour. Please be assured that Vanguard has also been in contact with us to relay the issues that have been passed on to them with regards to the tour. Additionally, our senior management has made adjustments in our operational procedures for large groups. We realize this does not erase the frustration you and the others in the Vanguard group experienced, however, we wanted to let you know that these issues are not taken lightly and are not normal for our tours. Additionally, they are certainly not up to our high standards. We understand that you experienced long lines. Again, we are truly sorry for the time you had to spend in these lines. We agree that there should have been a process to make this wait as short as possible so that you could relax in your free time. We need and appreciate your constructive criticism in order to insure that we address and recify any area where our service is less than our commitment to a "Tradition of Excellence." I can assure you that your experience is being reviewed by the appropriate senior management so that we can learn from our mistakes-not repeat them, and improve our facilities and services in Alaska. Please be assured your experience was the exception and we have gone to great lengths to ensure these tours live up to Holland America Line's standards. In an effort to show our concern, we would like to extend a Future Travel Discount to you in the amount of $600.00 total. The value of this certificate may be applied to a new reservation on any Holland America Line cruise or cruisetour, and is combinable with any other applicable discounts. The Future Travel Discount will be mailed under separate cover, and will arrive in approximately three weeks. Beyond our sincere apology and commitment to improve, we hope to earn your trust and confidence to sail with Holland America again in the future. We want to demonstrate the level of service, which you deserve and should expect from Holland America Line. Thanks you again for taking the time to provide us with your comments. We look forware to serving you again in the very near future. Very Truly yours, Debbie Hassinger Special Advisor Office of the Chairman cc: Gaye D. Frieary VP Operations Vanguard Tours & Cruises cc: Tiffany Bergman Supervisor of Customer Relations Holland America Line $10,222, one half of my family's vacation simply horrible, and an offer for a $600 discount on future travel......ponder that one. I want to clarify something that seems to be a theme in both written and oral responses from both VanGuard and Holland America: I purchased a "cruise-tour" for three people (my husband, my mother-in-law, and myself). I did not purchase a "cruise-tour" as three of over 200 people in what keeps being referred to as "The VanGuard Group". Although I realized we were not going to be the only three people on any given "motorcoach"(its a bus), I did not expect to have to fight my way onto one of five buses multiple times a day. As on other tours, I expected to be assigned a bus; get to know some of my fellow passengers that I would see everyday as human beings (not the animals we had been reduced to); and have seats rotated so no one would always have to sit in the back of the bus. This would have minimized the hysteria surrounding boarding. As it was, more time was spent loading and unloading buses than was spent at any given site. This leads me to the following: I also want to make it clear that the first "week" on ship was satisfactory. It was the second half of the trip on land which was a disaster. I don't know if Holland America is new to land tours or if they were expecting VanGuard to provide one tour guide per bus (there were NONE for the 200+ people/five buses). None of this should have been my problem.
Marcie
Glen Allen,#14Author of original report
Fri, July 30, 2004
Dear Marcie, Please be assured that your recent experience with Holland America on your Alaska Cruise-Tour was not acceptable and we are making their top executives aware of the details of their shortcomings. Your report came as a shock and surprise to us. Alaska departures this year, prior to and after your departure, reported no major problems. We have dealt with Holland America Line for over 30 years and have never experienced anything like this. The cruise-tour you pruchased was a package entirely hosted by Holland America from arrival in Vancouver through your departure in Fairbanks. As your booking agent, VanGuard has always offered this program with the greatest confidence and has not found an escort to be necessary. An escort would unnecessarily increase the cost of your trip and could not have prevented the many difficulties with the motorcoaches. The shortcomings you experienced in the various components of Holland America's package were unusual and certainly not up to the usual high standard we have come to expect from them. As a valued customer, we will continue to give you assistance in forwarding your complaints and compensation requests to the appropriate people at Holland America Line. Sincerely, Frank W. Barnes President Essentially, VanGuard takes no reponsibility other than collecting their money. I paid VanGuard NOT Holland America. The service they were willing to provide for over $10,000 was to address an envelope to Holland America, stick a 37 cent stamp on it, put a copy of my letter inside and mail it (I had already done this myself).
Marcie
Glen Allen,#15Author of original report
Wed, July 21, 2004
VanGuard Tours & Cruises 601 N. Fairfax St., Suite 450 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 684-5060 Holland America Line Inc. 300 Elliott Ave. West Seattle, WA 98119 (206) 281-3535
Marcie
Glen Allen,#16Author of original report
Wed, July 21, 2004
VanGuard Tours & Cruises 601 N. Fairfax St., Suite 450 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 684-5060 Holland America Line Inc. 300 Elliott Ave. West Seattle, WA 98119 (206) 281-3535
Marcie
Glen Allen,#17Author of original report
Wed, July 21, 2004
VanGuard Tours & Cruises 601 N. Fairfax St., Suite 450 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 684-5060 Holland America Line Inc. 300 Elliott Ave. West Seattle, WA 98119 (206) 281-3535
Marcie
Glen Allen,#18Author of original report
Wed, July 21, 2004
VanGuard Tours & Cruises 601 N. Fairfax St., Suite 450 Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 684-5060 Holland America Line Inc. 300 Elliott Ave. West Seattle, WA 98119 (206) 281-3535