Complaint Review: Biegler Ortiz & Chan - Sacramento California

You're welcome. It's been a pleasure.

Thanks for your "wisdom." It speaks for itself.

What is there for me to deal with? So far, you have given nothing. Your original case stunk or you wouldn't have lost the case on an MSJ. You haven't provided one single that of information that could lead to the conclusion that your appellate lawyer ripped you off. You are not qualified to know what arguments your lawyer should have raised on what is statistically an up hill battle. I've provided you with statistics from the Court of Appeals website that show nearly 90% of all appeals. Although you have been directed on ways to find another attorney to give you opinions on the legal malpractice issues, apparently without success. If you can defend it, don't bring it.

What is there for me to deal with? So far, you have given nothing. Your original case stunk or you wouldn't have lost the case on an MSJ. You haven't provided one single that of information that could lead to the conclusion that your appellate lawyer ripped you off. You are not qualified to know what arguments your lawyer should have raised on what is statistically an up hill battle. I've provided you with statistics from the Court of Appeals website that show nearly 90% of all appeals. Although you have been directed on ways to find another attorney to give you opinions on the legal malpractice issues, apparently without success. If you can defend it, don't bring it.

You don't even address what I've given so far. It serves no purpose to debate with people that selectively only see what fits their preconceived notions. We can't have a valid discussion in these circumstances. People that read this post can see for themselves how this "debate" is going and decide for themselves. I think it's fairly obvious and will leave it at that. Have the last say. I'll give you that unless your last response is just too far from the truth to not respond. I hope not because this (pointless by now) discussion will never end otherwise.

People also file ripoff reports without supporting evidence, making claims they cannot prove and not posting facts to support their claims. If you someone posts a ripoff report about an attorney, they should at least post enough information so that other can judge if a ripoff has truly occurred. In this instance, the information posted so far does not demonstrate a ripoff or how the outcome should have been different.

Also unfortunately, people make assumptions, take them as fact, and jump to conclusions based on their leanings, also without evidence to support them, while ignoring other aspects of a complaint. Please don't feel too badly about this report being where it is.

Each appeal is different, but some can involved evidence, procedure or both. In this case, the original poster lost the case in the trial court on a motion for summary judgment. That means the court ruled that there was at least one important element of her case that she could not prove by admissible evidence and denied her claim. When appeals court is hearing an appeal from a plaintiff who has lost an MSJ, it reviews the the same papers and evidence considered by the trial court. It is not bound by the trial court's ruling, so appealing an MSJ is usually easier than other types of appeals. The appeal was partially granted, but she still lost main part of the case. Unfortunatley, this report is sitting out there when there is no evidence to support the original claim that the appeal should have come out differently.

Each appeal is different, but some can involved evidence, procedure or both. In this case, the original poster lost the case in the trial court on a motion for summary judgment. That means the court ruled that there was at least one important element of her case that she could not prove by admissible evidence and denied her claim. When appeals court is hearing an appeal from a plaintiff who has lost an MSJ, it reviews the the same papers and evidence considered by the trial court. It is not bound by the trial court's ruling, so appealing an MSJ is usually easier than other types of appeals. The appeal was partially granted, but she still lost main part of the case. Unfortunatley, this report is sitting out there when there is no evidence to support the original claim that the appeal should have come out differently.

Each appeal is different, but some can involved evidence, procedure or both. In this case, the original poster lost the case in the trial court on a motion for summary judgment. That means the court ruled that there was at least one important element of her case that she could not prove by admissible evidence and denied her claim. When appeals court is hearing an appeal from a plaintiff who has lost an MSJ, it reviews the the same papers and evidence considered by the trial court. It is not bound by the trial court's ruling, so appealing an MSJ is usually easier than other types of appeals. The appeal was partially granted, but she still lost main part of the case. Unfortunatley, this report is sitting out there when there is no evidence to support the original claim that the appeal should have come out differently.

I may be mistaken, but aren't most appeals procedural and do not involve more evidence? Testimony would be evidence. Therefore, I will accept your input as factual.

At the time of my post I had only checked with the State Bar and my local yellow pages. No one looked at my situation to make a decision. What's transpired since then I won't discusss in this thread with you. As far as you providing "input and resources", please direct your efforts toward others in this forum. I believe this thread with you and me has run its course.

Actually, I did post another message, but it must have been a little too harsh. You are not qualfied to judge whether or not any of the arguments that you WANTED your attorney to make would have changed the outcome of the your appeal. I've tried to provide input and resources for you consideration. That fact that you cannot get someone to take you case speaks volumes to me.

This minnow does not relish facing a very uneven fight, which is how this law firm chooses to respond to my complaint and warning. Any legal action against me would be in the public domain however, follow-up publicity to this report. However, to stave off any shark bites I'll say now that, without admitting any wrongdoing or insincerity on my part, I retract the above posts. ;)

Now I suspect why the lawyer volunteering his input did not continue with this thread. Today I got a nasty letter from attorney Paul Chan, saying that if I do not remove my postings and post a retraction, he will commence with legal action against me for defamation and seek all appropriate remedies, including punitive damages. As far as removing these posts - that's out of my hands, as stated by the moderator. The posts cannot be deleted. Mr. Chan states that my intent was to harm his reputation in his community. That is incorrect. My intent is to prevent others from experiencing what I did - to warn them to insist on being involved every step of the way in litigation. Mr. Chan reiterated in his letter information that I am well aware of, but does not address the main issue that I write of above - failing to contact the defendant on my behalf on how I would pay them back after I asked him to - in response to him asking me. Nonetheless, if anything I stated in these posts is wrong, I retract it. In light of the fact that I cannot comply with his demand to remove the posts, Mr. Chan has the opportunity to rebut anything that was written, and I wish he would. If I'm wrong, this is where it can be explained. I say that anything and everything stated here that is wrong is retracted. I can't say what or why.

You don't say what relationship, if any, you have with the attorney who has left his "advise". Have you not read what I wrote? I had virtually _NO_ input to what my attorny did, much less did I micromanage. Nor did he keep me informed. I left him alone because he was so confidant when I hired him. To make a statement such as I don't know how to accept advice - have you reached the bottom of the barrel of what you can possible think of to invalidate someone who dares to criticize a lawyer? You sound like a lawyer - you sound just like the first poster in fact. Praising him in fact for his nonsensical advice. You claim it's "apparent" I don't know how to accept good advice or helpful information. Do you just _assume_ that's what I got from my attorney? If you're talking about your - I mean - the first poster's input, please point out what specific advice or helpful information you refer to. Please don't "guess" that if someone says something I don't want to hear, that I think it's worthless. You have nothing to back it up. Your cheap shots, qualified with "perhaps" and "I guess" only illustrate where you're coming from. What are your views on an attorney being asked by the defendant to negotiate payment of fees, the attorney saying he'd do it, and then not doing anything? That's just one of many things the attorney didn't do that he said he would. You rebuttals are broadbrushed, way off the mark and mean-spirited.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. I do however, see a trend setting in here. Perhaps the reason the attorney did not win the case is because the client wants to micro-manage her case instead of allowing the PROFESSIONAL do what he's paid to do. When someone pays me to repair their car, I let them sit and talk to me if they want. The minute they start telling me HOW to fix something, I stop what I am doing and go do something else. If they are so good at fixing it, why pay me? I hire attorneys for various reasons and I do not try to tell them what to do. They know more about our pathetic judicial system than I do. Apparently, this individual doesn't even know how to accept good advice or helpful information. I guess if it's not what she wants to hear, it must be worthless. I, on the other hand, appreciate the info you provide Carl in all of these threads. You don't sugarcoat it and it seems to be very straightforward. Thank you.

You're arguments are arrogant, emotional and illogical. You suggest that since I'm not an attorney I _can't_ know whether arguments were left out. You have not read the appeal nor do you have any information about my case. You also suggest that I think I know the law better than my attorney or even you. Those are your words, not mine. I am entitled to an opinion without it meaning I know the law better then my attorney, or even you. I also never said that appeals are not labor intensive. There is a matter of degree involved. Certainly it's possible for an appeal to be sloppy and minimally constructed. Whether or not an appeal is labor intensive does not mean that every appeal is done with an intent to do a good job with a successful outcome. Oh, and excuse me for not being clear, when I said I contacted the county Bar I meant to imply it was to find a lawyer, and I did use their referral service, I had no other reason to contact them. Your final statement "You have NO idea whatsoever." Sheesh. And you wonder why lawyers are held in such disdain? I didn't start out with that opinion, nor do I feel that way about all of them, just most of the ones I've been in contact with - up to this very point.

I don't have specific statistics on the how often MSJs are granted vs. denied, but any experienced litigator can tell you they are an uphill battle. I am relying on 12 years of experience. I have filed successful MSJ's, I have filed unsuccessful MSJs, I have successfully opposed MSJs and I have unsuccessfully opposed 1 or 2 MSJs. And I have observed lots of other lawyer's experience with MSJ. As for the statistics on appeals, they are availble at www.courtinfo.ca.gov. It is actually more like 90% (another typo). In 2002-01 for example, 88% of all appeals with either affirmed in full or affirmed with modifications, 8% were reversed and 2% were dismissed. You are not an attorney. How can you possibly know that the arguments that were "left out" had any impact on the outcome of the appeal? You seem to think you know the law better that your appellate attorney and better than me for that matter. You have no basis upon which to base your opinion that the appeals are not labor intensive. You have NO idea whatsoever. And I didn't tell you to contact the State Bar, I said the lawywer referral service for the Sac. County Bar Association. , I , but it

You indicate above that your initial rebuttal was based primarily on your belief that summary judgments are rarely granted. I'd like to know the source of that statistic along with your earlier statement that 96% of appeals fail. The lawyers I've worked with do _not_ share your view. In my experience MSJs are almost always _granted_. Both lawyers I used unequivocally felt that the summary judgment arguments in my case were flat out wrong, even that it seemed like assistants wrote it for the judge's quick review. Other cases were wrongly being tossed out - according to my lawyer - by the only two judges that were considering all of them. Maybe by making us plebeians jump through another expensive hoop saves the State money. I personally know of at least one person who's wrongfully-tossed MSJ caused him to throw in the towel. Yes, your last statement has many illustrative typos. I assure you that my lawyers brief was not marred simply by typos. He left out many arguments that could have changed the outcome. He seemed to have copied a statement from the MSJ defense one that I wrote for my previous lawyer into a nonsensical statement that actually helped the defense instead of me, and which they used. He didn't let me look at the appeal before he filed it and didn't let me know he filed it until months later. He must not have even read it over before submitting it, let alone anyone else. I emphatically instructed him verbally and in writing to correct the statement, and he wrote that he would. After the appeal failed he admitted that he did not. You go on to say appeals are very time-consuming and briefs are VERY laborious. I've read them. That's what lawyers are paid for and it doesn't follow that a lot of time was necessarily spent on them. My appeal AND the brief I saw were sloppy, very incomplete and seemed rushed. Sure it had typos, but the problems with it went well beyond typos. Additionally, my lawyer crowed that I didn't owe the state a nickel. I had written and verbally told him about fees associated with the early phase of my litigation, which he seemed to have forgotten. The defense sent him a letter asking him to either arrange with me to make payments or they'd place a lien on my house. He sent me a copy of it with a letter offering to negotiate on my behalf to make the arrangements. I never was contacted directly by the State. I immediately contacted him via phone message and letter asking him to please try to remove the fee but to let the defendant know I would make monthly payments otherwise. He didn't respond to that or to another letter I wrote him two weeks later asking for status. He couldn't be bothered with the whole thing evidently. I found out about the liens when I got nervous and contacted the County a couple weeks later. As far as your suggestion to contact the State Bar for a referral to a legal malpractice lawyer I've done that to no avail, not surprisingly. I had one lead that was too busy to take another case. Perhaps someone who reads this will be so kind as to make a suggestion to me.

I will answer one of your last question first. Yes, I am an attonrey. I have defended other Calfornia lawyers in legal malpractices cases. I also have a limited amount of experience with appeals and I have argued one case before the Court of Appeal in San Diego. My impression of the relative merits of is based on primarily on the fact that you lost your case on summary judgment in the trial court. Summary judgments are rarely granted, which means the trial judge said either you had no proof to support an important part of your or that the defendants had an abosolute defense. It isn't any bias, it is an opinion based on the available evidence and my knowledge of the legal standards applied to a motion for summary judgment. Appeals are very time consuming and drafting briefs is VERY laborious. Your lawyer submitted two briefs. Typing mistakes happen, and anybody who reads my posts here will tell . The key issue is whether or not the mistakes in the brief were prejudicial your appeal. Did your lawyer fail to raise arguments that might have chnaged the results? Typos might be aggravating and even unprofessional, but not necessarily the source of the decision against your appeal. You might also have a malpractice claim against your attorney on the appeal if they improperly advised you on the possibility of winning on appeal. You can start by calling the lawyer referral service for the Sacramento County Bar Association for an attorney referral.

I want to add that I've already used local phone directories and the CA Bar Association with no luck in finding a legal malpractice attorney, except a couple of instances of firms that could not take a case at this time. I think legal malpractice attorneys are few and far between - for obvious reasons - and that lawyers in general know that - thus their power to do whatever they want no matter how unethical.

I want to add that I've already used local phone directories and the CA Bar Association with no luck in finding a legal malpractice attorney, except a couple of instances of firms that could not take a case at this time. I think legal malpractice attorneys are few and far between - for obvious reasons - and that lawyers in general know that - thus their power to do whatever they want no matter how unethical.

I want to add that I've already used local phone directories and the CA Bar Association with no luck in finding a legal malpractice attorney, except a couple of instances of firms that could not take a case at this time. I think legal malpractice attorneys are few and far between - for obvious reasons - and that lawyers in general know that - thus their power to do whatever they want no matter how unethical.

Thank you for your attention to my complaint. You admit that the decision was not available for you to review - not to mention my attorney's brief - and that further comment was difficult. Further on though you state that "they clearly did a lot of work." Can you clarify what it is that gives you that impression? My appeal was filed and a brief was submitted. The brief, by the way, was not offered to me for review before it was filed - in fact, I can't imagine anyone, including my lawyer, even reread it, because it had grievious errors in it - sentences that didn't make sense. When I finally got a copy I insisted that he correct the mistake in the brief that conveyed the opposite of the truth, and he said he would. After the appeal lost, he said he had not corrected it after all. Also, he told me I didn't owe the defendant "a nickel." He had forgotten about costs from the first phase of my litigation, which I had brought to his attention verbally and in print. He received a letter from the defendant's attorney asking for communication regarding how I was to pay it else they would place a lien against my house. My lawyer asked me in a letter if I wanted him to handle that and I immediately told him verbally and in writing to please try to get thoses costs dismissed also but to tell them I'd make monthy payments otherwise. He simply ignored me - again - even when I wrote a couple weeks later to ask for status. Yet you state at the end of your rebuttal that based on what's available - what you previously said would be difficult to comment on - that it sounds like I didn't have much of a case and I was lucky to get the relief from the appeal I did receive. I sense a little bias here - let me guess, you're a lawyer? I could add many details to illustrate how my lawyer's brief left out the major arguments of the appeal and was a bare minimum he could get away with. It seems that he never planned for the appeal to win. I also, Sir, would be interested in the source of your statement that 96% of appeals fail. If so, I wonder why my lawyer didn't give me that statistic - rather he said he though my appeal would prevail - before he took my money that is. I welcome your suggestion to seek a malpractise attorney to look into my dealings with the earlier lawyer. Can you suggest where I might find one? Thanks.

It is not clear to me that you have been ripped off in this case. There is also nothing from your post that would indicate whether or not you had a really strong case or if the quality of representation. Unfortunateley, the Court of Appeal's decision is no longer available on the website, so further comment is difficult. However, I was able to look up some information about the timeline of your and gather some information of general interest. From what I gather, you lost your case in the trial court on a Motion for Summary Judgment. It appears that you were disatisfied with yoru trial attorney and hired another law firm to handle the appeal. You lost the appeal. Your appeal was filed on 12/30/03 and your attorney's initial brief was filed on 08/30/04. Oral argument was waived and a decision was rendered on 02/10/05. In the grand scheme of things, that's fairly typical for an appeal. I can say that the law firm did not "take your moneu and do next to nothing". They fully prosecuted the appeal to the conclusion. Oral argument on appeals have very little impact on the case because it is almost always decided on the written record. They clearly did a lot of work, but I am not able to access their briefs or the court's opinion, so I cannot comment on the quality of the work. It is clear that the trial court had ordered you to pay attorney's fees and that burden was lifted from. However, every prevailing party is entitled to recover "costs" or the litigatino expense like filing fees, etc. You only could have avoided that by having a competely sucessful reversal of the trial court's judgment. About 96% of all appeals fail, but you did get some benefit from the work. You wold need to consult another appelate specialist for an opinion the quality of representation you received. You might also consider consulting a malpractice lawyer to see if you have a claim against your first attorney. Based on what's available, it sounds like you didn't have much of a case and you were lucky to get the relief from the appeal that you did receive.