- Report: #457826
Complaint Review: Harry's On The Hill - Asheville North Carolina
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Harry's On The Hill
819 Patton Avenue Asheville, 28806 North Carolina, U.S.A.
Phone:
828-348-0611
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Harry's On The Hill In Asheville Refuses To Rectify An Incorrectly Performed Repair. Had a timing chain installed which led to catastrophic engine failure. Asheville North Carolina
*Author of original report: Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
*Author of original report: Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
*Author of original report: Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
*Author of original report: Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
*Consumer Comment: Year, make, model, engine, blah blah blah
I took my vehicle to Harry's on the Hill to have a new water pump installed. They successfully upsold me on having the timing chain replaced as well. When the vehicle was returned to me, I noticed that it was running strangely, bogging down, and had little power. Not realizing that these symptoms are connected with an incorrectly installed timing chain, I checked all the fluids, added a quart of oil and continued using the vehicle. Before even a few hundred miles had been driven on it, it experienced catastrophic engine failure.
I took the car to another mechanic to have the starter replaced, not realizing what was happening, who discovered the actual issue. Once I discovered this (he only took the starter off, put on a new one and removed it when it turned out to not be the issue), I immediately had him stop work and had the car towed back to Harry's to be looked at. The service department there refused to investigate the vehicle beyond noting that the battery was dead and the starter removed, yet still felt justified in stating that the issue was certainly my fault. The service manager was extremely rude and belligerent in doing so - a charge that is corroborated by the other user review on this site. He told me that it was "impossible" for it to be the timing system, because it would have been missing so badly I would have brought it back before I made it out of the parking lot. He also told me to ask any 10 mechanics about this, and *all* of them would tell me the same thing.
So, I went and asked, and the very first three spoke all told me exactly the opposite. When I returned and informed the service manager of this fact, he became even more rude and actually went as far as physically threatening me.
I have spoken with five different mechanics and found multiple sources which all state that the behavior of the vehicle was exactly what you would expect with a timing chain that is installed incorrectly. See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.pontiac/browse_thread/thread/1780cae034176792?pli=1
"Being a former ASE certified mechanic I would say that the replacement timing
chain may have something to do your current trouble if it wasn't install
properly."
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/350-chev-timing-compression-vac-help-82970.html
"Everything you have described is indicative of a jumped chain or incorrectly installed set of gears..
Low Compression, followed by low vacuum is the clue.."
(Note that this requires a mechanic to notice, not 'driving out of the parking lot'.)
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/04/DontBeRetarded/index.php
"Fouled plugs, lack of power, hard restarts, and a roasting intake manifold with normal water temperature. All of the above were symptoms that lead us to believe that the cam in our 460 had been degreed incorrectly." (None of these are noticeable by driving out of a parking lot.)
http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/9095-change-cam-chain-tensioners.html
"Symptoms could be *as little as low power* - to as big as the pistons hitting the valves." (Emphasis mine)
Lastly:
http://seductiveautosports.tripod.com/fiero_troubleshooting_guide.htm
The only people who are claiming that it is not the timing chain installation are the people who have a financial stake in it not being so, and those people have already lied about the issue as confirmed by multiple other mechanics. There would be no reason to lie about this if they did not recognize that they were at fault. For example, the article from Ford lists "Fouled plugs, lack of power, hard restarts, and a roasting intake manifold with normal water temperature" as symptoms of an incorrectly installed timing chain - only the second would have caused a normal person to return the car "before leaving the parking lot", quote-unquote, and only then if it was to the point where it interfered with normal driving.
Interviewed confirming local shops: Shook's (two mechanics), The Organic Mechanic (two mechanics).
Interviewed confirming independent mechanic: One.
Confirming web pages: Five.
Grand total of corroborating sources: Ten. The exact number that the service manager told me would say precisely the opposite.
Lou
Asheville, North Carolina
U.S.A.
I took the car to another mechanic to have the starter replaced, not realizing what was happening, who discovered the actual issue. Once I discovered this (he only took the starter off, put on a new one and removed it when it turned out to not be the issue), I immediately had him stop work and had the car towed back to Harry's to be looked at. The service department there refused to investigate the vehicle beyond noting that the battery was dead and the starter removed, yet still felt justified in stating that the issue was certainly my fault. The service manager was extremely rude and belligerent in doing so - a charge that is corroborated by the other user review on this site. He told me that it was "impossible" for it to be the timing system, because it would have been missing so badly I would have brought it back before I made it out of the parking lot. He also told me to ask any 10 mechanics about this, and *all* of them would tell me the same thing.
So, I went and asked, and the very first three spoke all told me exactly the opposite. When I returned and informed the service manager of this fact, he became even more rude and actually went as far as physically threatening me.
I have spoken with five different mechanics and found multiple sources which all state that the behavior of the vehicle was exactly what you would expect with a timing chain that is installed incorrectly. See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.pontiac/browse_thread/thread/1780cae034176792?pli=1
"Being a former ASE certified mechanic I would say that the replacement timing
chain may have something to do your current trouble if it wasn't install
properly."
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/350-chev-timing-compression-vac-help-82970.html
"Everything you have described is indicative of a jumped chain or incorrectly installed set of gears..
Low Compression, followed by low vacuum is the clue.."
(Note that this requires a mechanic to notice, not 'driving out of the parking lot'.)
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/04/DontBeRetarded/index.php
"Fouled plugs, lack of power, hard restarts, and a roasting intake manifold with normal water temperature. All of the above were symptoms that lead us to believe that the cam in our 460 had been degreed incorrectly." (None of these are noticeable by driving out of a parking lot.)
http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/9095-change-cam-chain-tensioners.html
"Symptoms could be *as little as low power* - to as big as the pistons hitting the valves." (Emphasis mine)
Lastly:
http://seductiveautosports.tripod.com/fiero_troubleshooting_guide.htm
The only people who are claiming that it is not the timing chain installation are the people who have a financial stake in it not being so, and those people have already lied about the issue as confirmed by multiple other mechanics. There would be no reason to lie about this if they did not recognize that they were at fault. For example, the article from Ford lists "Fouled plugs, lack of power, hard restarts, and a roasting intake manifold with normal water temperature" as symptoms of an incorrectly installed timing chain - only the second would have caused a normal person to return the car "before leaving the parking lot", quote-unquote, and only then if it was to the point where it interfered with normal driving.
Interviewed confirming local shops: Shook's (two mechanics), The Organic Mechanic (two mechanics).
Interviewed confirming independent mechanic: One.
Confirming web pages: Five.
Grand total of corroborating sources: Ten. The exact number that the service manager told me would say precisely the opposite.
Lou
Asheville, North Carolina
U.S.A.
5 Updates & Rebuttals
Robert
Ft Eustis,Virginia,
U.S.A.
Year, make, model, engine, blah blah blah
#2Consumer Comment
Mon, June 08, 2009
Seriously...Why can people NEVER provide the mere basics with their complaint? The OP has provided several different engines as being the same, when none are. Now...How about the basics?
Jacob
Asheville,North Carolina,
U.S.A.
Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
#3Author of original report
Sun, June 07, 2009
I filed a dispute for Harry's on the Hill Pontiac Cadillac Buick GMC Asheville NC with the BBB. In their response, the service manager, Frank Leccese, lied multiple times to protect themselves from responsibility for their incorrectly performed repair. To summarize: 1. He said that the vehicle had been driven for three months and 1500 miles when it had only been driven for 5.5 weeks and 400 miles. 2. He claimed that I had said the check engine light didn't come on, when I said that I didn't see it, wasn't looking for it, and that it needed to be checked. 3. He claimed that the vehicle was "disassembled". Only the starter was taken off. 4. Claimed that I would not give the qualifications of the mechanic who discovered the problems, when I gave him the mechanic's phone number and told him to ask. It would really be nice if I could get one straightforward and honest interaction from Harry's on the Hill!
Jacob
Asheville,North Carolina,
U.S.A.
Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
#4Author of original report
Sun, June 07, 2009
I filed a dispute for Harry's on the Hill Pontiac Cadillac Buick GMC Asheville NC with the BBB. In their response, the service manager, Frank Leccese, lied multiple times to protect themselves from responsibility for their incorrectly performed repair. To summarize: 1. He said that the vehicle had been driven for three months and 1500 miles when it had only been driven for 5.5 weeks and 400 miles. 2. He claimed that I had said the check engine light didn't come on, when I said that I didn't see it, wasn't looking for it, and that it needed to be checked. 3. He claimed that the vehicle was "disassembled". Only the starter was taken off. 4. Claimed that I would not give the qualifications of the mechanic who discovered the problems, when I gave him the mechanic's phone number and told him to ask. It would really be nice if I could get one straightforward and honest interaction from Harry's on the Hill!
Jacob
Asheville,North Carolina,
U.S.A.
Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
#5Author of original report
Sun, June 07, 2009
I filed a dispute for Harry's on the Hill Pontiac Cadillac Buick GMC Asheville NC with the BBB. In their response, the service manager, Frank Leccese, lied multiple times to protect themselves from responsibility for their incorrectly performed repair. To summarize: 1. He said that the vehicle had been driven for three months and 1500 miles when it had only been driven for 5.5 weeks and 400 miles. 2. He claimed that I had said the check engine light didn't come on, when I said that I didn't see it, wasn't looking for it, and that it needed to be checked. 3. He claimed that the vehicle was "disassembled". Only the starter was taken off. 4. Claimed that I would not give the qualifications of the mechanic who discovered the problems, when I gave him the mechanic's phone number and told him to ask. It would really be nice if I could get one straightforward and honest interaction from Harry's on the Hill!
Jacob
Asheville,North Carolina,
U.S.A.
Harry's on the Hill Asheville - Lied to the BBB in our dispute.
#6Author of original report
Sun, June 07, 2009
I filed a dispute for Harry's on the Hill Pontiac Cadillac Buick GMC Asheville NC with the BBB. In their response, the service manager, Frank Leccese, lied multiple times to protect themselves from responsibility for their incorrectly performed repair. To summarize: 1. He said that the vehicle had been driven for three months and 1500 miles when it had only been driven for 5.5 weeks and 400 miles. 2. He claimed that I had said the check engine light didn't come on, when I said that I didn't see it, wasn't looking for it, and that it needed to be checked. 3. He claimed that the vehicle was "disassembled". Only the starter was taken off. 4. Claimed that I would not give the qualifications of the mechanic who discovered the problems, when I gave him the mechanic's phone number and told him to ask. It would really be nice if I could get one straightforward and honest interaction from Harry's on the Hill!
