Complaint Review: Independence Van Lines - Oakland Park Florida

As I said, it only took me about 60 seconds to discover they are a broker only.  Here is the website you should have looked at:

https://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/CompanySnapshot.aspx

This is a website run by the Federal Government.  Go ahead and plug in DOT number 3102373 for Independence.  It says VERY clearly on the federal government website that they are a broker for HHG (household goods) ONLY.  Even if you don't have the knowledge I do as someone who used to work in the moving industry, all you had to do is google "checking DOT numbers" and this site pops up.  They have no authority to do household good moves.  You'll also see the number of power units they have; power units = trucks (trucks come in various sizes, hence the term "power units").  The number of trucks = 0.  ZERO.  They have no trucks.  There would have been no way for them to do a move for you if they have no trucks.  How can that quote even be considered legitimate IF they have no authority to do a move and no trucks to perform the move.

Accordingly, providing me a copy of your quote and asking me where it says they're a broker is a meaningless exercise for the reasons I just stated.  All it tells me is that you didn't do your research.  When you got a quote, you should have looked up the DOT number on the FMCSA website I provided.  Once you see broker - the quote should have ended up in the garbage.  If the Federal Government indicates they're only a broker and have no authority to do a move, then the entire quote is bullsh*t.  The entire quote is a lie.  Since the website pointed to these guys as legit movers, the entire website should have been called into question - I mean you asked for movers only, and the website provided you a broker.  BTW, the MC number they provided has one too many zeroes; the correct number is MC-78045.  In addition, brokers can also have MC and DOT numbers - those numbers are not exclusive to companies who can only move HHG.

So, how do I know the initial website you went to is a site full of scammers?  My experience working for a legitimate mover in California.  I've also dealt with a moving website creator many years ago, and the individual who wrote me back indicated they do no research on any of the movers on their site.  If they say they are a mover, the website assumes they are, so long as they pay the website to appear as a mover.  That's pretty much standard operating procedure for these guys.  Independence pays to be listed, just as they pay to be members of the BBB, and they do their advertising - if you will - on consumer feedback sites.

You'll also notice the address for Independence is in Florida.  The state of Florida is the capital of scam movers; many of the scam movers are based in Florida.  The state really does nothing to clamp down on these guys, so they're able to exist out there.  Truthfully, this is a really old scam that's existed for more than 40 years.  The reason it works is because consumers generally aren't aware or knowledgeable about moving, especially interstate moving, so the scammers write contracts favorable to them only, and then lie about such things as insurance, when items will be picked up, when they will be delivered, where is my stuff, and so on.  They can't be sued because contractually, not only do they have the consumer over a barrel with the terms and conditions, but then they have the customer's signature all over every document purporting to agree to everything.  The internet has only made scam movers richer.

Just so we make this clear in the interest of full disclosure:  I have never worked for a scam mover.  EVER.  I have volunteered my time years ago to help those who were in hostage load situations, as well as helping consumers understand the moving process.

Unless there is a class action lawsuit, I am will not engage in any further contact with Independence Van lines- every where I check, they list themselves as a moving company- not broker.

They practice deception. Even if I knew they were brokers, they owed it to me, as a client to do due diligence on my behalf before throwing me and my belongings to the wolves- Scammers and cheaters do this- don't call yourself a broker.

I have financial brokers- they call themselves brokers and they practice ethical behavior and stand behind their contracts- Independence Van lines did no such thing.

I am assuming the postive ratings on YELP were paid for by the company- how do you go from wonderful, perfect, heavenly- to 0 stars and warnings?

And there still is no excuse for Ray's comments- when I only wanted our belongings- he is the worst of the worst-

I am unable to transfer the document from my email to this site so I will do it piecemeal:

ndependence Van Lines 3411 Nw 9th Avenue Suite 708 Oakland Park FL 33309 US DOT: 3102373   MC: 0780045   Customer

Rep: Johnt Phone: 888-254-3494  Ext. 954-237-3497 Email: [email protected] Web: https://independencevanlines.com/

Moving From Moving To Carol Hutchinson  204 Pauma Ct    Bakersfield, CA 93309  Phone: 8183520661   [email protected] Carol Hutchinson 50 Ruby Ave    Eugene, OR 97404      

Relocation Details Job No: T4157239  Estimate Date: 06/14/2018  Representative: Johnt   Move Type: Residential Long Distance, 760 miles   Estimated Volume: 2000 lbs. (286 cf.)

$0.70 per lbs   Move Day:  Wednesday/Thursday  Move Date:   06/27/2018-06/28/2018  1st Available Delivery: 06/30/2018  Reference By: Equatemedia-Premium   Created on: 06/14/2018  Relocation Estimate  Total Tariff  $2885.00 Tariff Discount: 51.47% -$1485.00 Basic Estimate Price  $1400.00 Fuel Surcharge: 9.00 %  $126.00 30 days free storage   $0.01 Coupon Discount: 20.00 % - $305.20 Binding Estimate   $2029.20 Connecting Move Discount  - $1000.00

his estimate includes the following services to be performed by the carrier:

• Professional Door to Door service. 
• Expert advice and guidance throughout the course of your move.
• Disassembly of all standard furniture required for safe transportation.
• Reassembly for all items disassembled by the movers on the day of pick-up.
• Wrapping of all furniture with quilted moving blankets.
• Itemized inventory indicating condition at origin.
• Loading & unloading of all goods.
• All transportation, taxes, tolls, mileage, and fuel surcharges.
• Standard cargo protection up to $10,000 based on 0.60 cents per lb per article; if selected at the time the estimate is prepared, estimated cost of the full value protection option at varying deductible levels (these are only estimates and the actual cost is determined by your selection on the carriers bill of lading according to carriers tariff).
• No elevator charges.
• No charge for packing tape and moving pads.
• No date change penalties if your request is made more than 7 business days before your originally scheduled pick-up date. (Summer Rates are subject to change)

Please let me know in this contract where it says the company is only a broker.

The first two guarantees in the estimate,Professional service and expert advice, are blatantly untrue. This is your contract- not something I made up.

Notice the DOT number and MC number

I had received multiple estimates for this move. The estimate from this company was about the same as all the others- not cheaper- there were, incidentally cheaper offers , but John was so on the ball and ready to make all the arrangements, making three way phone calls- 

You must have looked at a different site- No where on their web page that I saw  does it say they are brokers.

Secondly, Where does is show that the initial site was a scam? You knew it because you are scamming. I checked the BBB for Independence and it showed a DOT number

I thought I was speaking with a moving company- but, I got taken- blame the victim because I had never dealt with movers before and didn't realize it was such a scam.

Fine, I will take the reimbursement of 0.60 on the pound- its not about the money- the furniture will never be the same- what this is about is attempting to put companies such as yours out of business. 

Don't try to absolve yourself and your company of any blame. Like telling me you are a thief and I should have known you were a thief- 

And if you were actually representing me (because you say you are a broker) then you didn't do due diligence on the moving company you shuttled the job to- and you didn't inform me that D United Logistics would be handling the move. 

Shame on me, alright- but doubly shame on you. 

I researched Independence Van Lines- I never researched D United Logistics because I was unaware of the company until our belongings were on the truck and the young man told us so- If Indendence is a broker- and it doesn't say that on their web site and even their web site shows pictures of Independence VAn Lines trucks, why do they even show pictures of trucks if they are only brokers? No, you didn't do any research on Independence.  Plain and simple.  I went to the DOT website, plugged in their DOT number and it quickly revealed they are a broker and cannot do a move.  So why do they have trucks on their site?  Because they probably used to do moves.  But a mover like this can decide to not renew their authority which leaves them as brokers. 

They need to do due diligence on the companies they contract with- at what point was I going to research? When the furniture is loaded on the truck and I said I would call Independence Van Lines for a date that the furniture will arrive and the man (mover) tells me- oh no- we're  D United Logistics" Is that when?  Had you done research on Independence before you even called them, you would have known they were a broker, so if you didn't want a broker, then you would have called someone else, right?. Their job as broker is to line you up with a mover.  I agree they should have looked into the authority for your mover to move you, BUT they don't do it because brokers generally don't have to, just like websites don't have to verify whether their mover lost their authority to do a move.  As I said, the reality is you chose a website that houses nothing but scam movers to do a move.  Since they do no research either, the likelihood you were going to find a legit mover there is near zero.

I agree I was stupid to contract with Independence Van Lines (let's not even call them a Van Lines because they are not) and I am not expecting any monetary damages- other than the claim I will be filing with their claims department for the damages to furniture and the missing items. Because that is what is says on the Independence Van Lines Contract- that our goods are insured by their company up to $10,000.  Your problems on that front are only starting.  Now I would hope they provide you with replacement in light of the load falling in a lake.  However, if you check your contract, movers cannot generally provide insurance because they are generally prohibited by law to sell you insurance.  What they sell is valuation which they provide payment for lost or damaged items at $0.60 per pound.  Valuation is not the same as insurance.  It means for example your $100 lb. oak table would get a maximum reimbursement back of $60.  However, your leverage in this situation is that D United moved without an authority, which is illegal and would subject the owner to heavy fines and criminal charges.  Perhaps you can work out a deal to get your full value in exchange for not reporting them to the authorities.

What I would love to see is that companies such as this be made to be up front about their scam- tell you up front that they are brokers only and they will take your money (oh, yeah, John was hot for that reservation fee)  will find a moving company-any moving company and you will not be forewarned about which company and they will not do any due diligence so that the day of the move, when your house is packed and you are ready to leave you will discover a company you never heard of shows up  Why would a con man be upfront about a scam?  Some companies have no problem being just brokers, but many scam movers are both brokers and movers.  They have that one truck, remember, and then decide whether your truck will end up on a rental, or on their one truck, or farmed out to another company.  All represent revenue sources to the scam mover.

You keep focusing on Independence as the problem.  They aren't the problem - they're the symptom.  The website you went to - where you found these guys - that's the problem.  As long as people go to websites like this, you will see complaints about moving.  Tell people about the website and how they house nothing but scam movers - now that would be helpful.

The moving industry people I know talk about the fact that consumers want their moves to be:

a.  Fast

b.  Cheap

c.  Done right

It's a nice thought.  In reality, a legitimate mover can generally do one (c) and sometimes (a).  It can never do b, in the summer it can't do (a) and certainly it can NEVER do all 3.  Moving is not inexpensive.  Intensive labor, fuel costs, and variations within every move, make the costs higher than the majority of consumers can afford.  It is the reason companies like U-Haul are in existence.  Going to a website to find a budget mover....invites the people you ended up dealing with.

When I started researching companies for the move, I used Budget move.com- asking for movers-not brokers  So?  You're now depending on a scam website to update users on the tens of thousands of movers across the country who status as a mover may change from one quarter to the next?  Let me share with you how many times this website updates its listing of qualified movers:  ZERO.  You may have asked for a mover, not a broker, and Independence may have been a mover at one point, but they aren't now, and they have zero obligation to provide that information back to the website.  It took me one minute to research the DOT number of the mover you chose.  Had you done that, it would have not only shredded the credibility of the mover, but it should have shredded the credibility of the website you were on.

I was never told Independence Van lines (why Van lines if not a moving company) was a broker- they did not reveal this at anytime- they contracted for the move- I did the only due diligence that I knew how to do- Better Business Bureau- and Yelp.  Because they probably used to have the authority to perform moves, but they don't now.  The company is either in the process of shutting down - which means the owner will reopen with a new authority, new DOT number, and no complaints.  It's a common scam tactic.  The BBB is member driven and will promote their members; even this website thinks very poorly of the BBB.  This means the BBB is not a good source of information on a mover.  Movers often write their own Yelp and other consumer-based reviews, so that isn't a good source either.  Searching the internet for complaints on a mover is a really bad idea because scam movers shut their doors when too many complaints get filed, and then reopen under a new name with no complaints.  Your complaint will be outdated - in all likelihood - in a matter of months or maybe a year.  The only source of good information is the Federal Department of Transportation and the FMCSA website.  Here's another really good reason why, other than discovering they're a broker only:

Let's say you find out your mover is a real mover, but has only one truck - as many small scam movers do.  This means their only source of revenue is that one truck.  Now....if you book with them, you are either dependent on that one truck for your move, or your move is going to end up on a rental truck, or your move is going to be brokered out.  Since they're dependent on that one truck for ALL of their revenue, ask yourself are you going to be that lucky your move is going on that truck?  No, probably not.  So the only way they make money on that one truck is if they gouge you - they have to - otherwise they don't stay in business.

If you really wanted to do research on moving in general, I would have recommended www.movingscam.com.  You will find thousands of people with stories similar to yours and legit movers who volunteer their time to help guide you on what to look out for.

They lied to me, they hid the fact that they subcontracted and they refused to help me with the mover- they subcontracted with a company that I found out later had lost their DOT license- As I said, the broker has no obligation to you once they find you a mover.  They, as a broker, are also not obligated to find out whether the mover that won the bid to do your job - has a valid DOT license.  As I also said, researching the DOT would have revealed Independence to be a broker.  The moderators on the website I gave you would have been able to give you this information in about 15 seconds.  The would have also told you about staying away from Budget Move.com and staying away from any website to find a mover.

Unscrupulous, lying, and underhanded - Yes that would describe every scam mover.  However once they close their doors and open as New Van Line Company (whatever the new name is), your complaint won't help the next person.

INdpendence Van lines web site and contract  indicates  they are a moving company- the Yelp reviews that I saw didn't mention that Independence was a broker, not a moving company.

I was told several times by John Thompson, a very high pressure individual, that "they" would handle the move- Why would I assume that he was speaking about what ever rip off organization he could dump our furnishings on, and not Independence Van Lines? I look back now and realize all the people I was hearing from, during this time, regarding the move were most likely brokers, and I was stupid enough to trust old John and all his glib lies

I researched Independence Van Lines- I never researched D United Logistics because I was unaware of the company until our belongings were on the truck and the young man told us so-

If Indendence is a broker- and it doesn't say that on their web site and even their web site shows pictures of Independence VAn Lines trucks, why do they even show pictures of trucks if they are only brokers?

They need to do due diligence on the companies they contract with- at what point was I going to research? When the furniture is loaded on the truck and I said I would call Independence Van Lines for a date that the furniture will arrive and the man (mover) tells me- oh no- we're  D United Logistics" Is that when?

Again, the snarky comments from your company along the lines, you give us your money and entrust us with your belongings but we owe you no due diligence with the companies we will give your job to- nor do we have to tell you who will be doing the move so you can do due diligence yourself and then, contact Independence and tell them to find another mover,, nor do we have to help you get your items back when the company Independence contracted with, does deliver the belongings.

 I agree I was stupid to contract with Independence Van Lines (let's not even call them a Van Lines because they are not) and I am not expecting any monetary damages- other than the claim I will be filing with their claims department for the damages to furniture and the missing items. Because that is what is says on the Independence Van Lines Contract- that our goods are insured by their company up to $10,000

What I would love to see is that companies such as this be made to be up front about their scam- tell you up front that they are brokers only and they will take your money (oh, yeah, John was hot for that reservation fee)  will find a moving company-any moving company and you will not be forewarned about which company and they will not do any due diligence so that the day of the move, when your house is packed and you are ready to leave you will discover a company you never heard of shows up

- Why would anyone looking for a moving company call a broker instead of just dealing with the moving company???

And, again, my last interaction with Ray, as a Independence Van Lines representative, shows exactly what they think of their customers- suckers.

When I started researching companies for the move, I used Budget move.com- asking for movers-not brokers

I was never told Independence Van lines (why Van lines if not a moving company) was a broker- they did not reveal this at anytime- they contracted for the move- I did the only due diligence that I knew how to do- Better Business Bureau- and Yelp

Never in any of the documentation is the company listed as a broker- in fact, I have a contract with Independence  and a contract number- from their offices- that they would do the move- not a subcontractor

They lied to me, they hid the fact that they subcontracted and they refused to help me with the mover- they subcontracted with a company that I found out later had lost their DOT license-

Unscrupulous, lying, and underhanded.

Or did you just decide to go with a mover based on price?  If you had looked up the DOT number for Independence, the mover that appears on your complaint, you would find that Independence Van Lines is a broker - thy have no Federal Authority to perform a move.  Since they're only a broker, there's no way they would have been able to perform your move.  This is what happens when you don't do research - and you choose a mover based in Florida to do a move from Bakersfield to Eugene.  These are the perils when you decide to select a mover off of the internet instead of using the yellow pages.  Yes, moving is very low technology and scammers count on your ignorance of low-tech to pretend to be legit movers.

Once a broker finds a mover to perform a move, they have no obligation to follow up on your move - in this case, you were stuck with D United Logistics.  Their job was to find you a mover, they did, and their job ended.  They brushed you off, as you said, because their obligation ended when D United picked up your items.  So do you need a broker to do a move?  NO.

Now the guys that moved you.....their website fails to provide their DOT number or their FMCSA number.  I mean they may be registered, but they may not be either.  But that's what happens when you contract with a broker.  They have no obligation to follow up and check the DOT or FMCSA number of the people they broker your move to.

Moving is not an inexpensive venture.  Choosing a mover off of the internet can be far more expensive than if you had simply selected a legit mover like Mayflower, United, North American, Atlas, Bekins, and a few others... these movers have agents in cities across the US.  They may be more expensive, but then.....look at your furniture.