Anonymus
Southern,#2Consumer Comment
Wed, March 14, 2007
GLAD TO SEE YOU PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY LISTENING TO MY ADVICES AND THAT I AM NOT JUST HERE WASTING MY TIME TRYING TO HELP YOU FOLKS FOR NOTHING: Congratulations! Job well done Patricia. Thanks for following my advice. Glad to see that all the time and effort I spend on this site typing all this stuff out for people who have been cheated is worth all the time and effort it takes me. Glad to see that I'm not just wasting my time trying to help you people. You people are actually doing what I have been recommending. I told you the $870 shipping, administrative, and processing fee Karen Johnson gave you was all bogus BS as well as that stupid tape recording she threatened you with. Karen Johnson is full of it. She needs to be kicked in the box. That was a fraudulent attempt by Karen Johnson to steal your cash and intimidate you from wanting your money back. I don't know how Karen Johnson and the rest of the Mentoring of America gang can sleep at night knowing all the people the defraud and cheat everyday. The people at this company like Karen Johnson are all talk when they start to act tough and actually welcome you to take them to court or not take you seriously. They will always find it easier to just give you your money back than to face another lawsuit on top of all the other ones they have already had filed against them in the recent past once you begin to pound them with formal complaints. MY NEW UPDATED MENTORING OF AMERICA REFUND REVENGE TALLY WITHIN THE LAST 7 MONTHS: For those of you who don't know, I have been keeping tally of MOA refunds I have personally helped cause both on and off this website since the last 7 months after I got Mentoring of America to refund thousands of dollars they cheated me out of. This is my personal revenge to Mentoring of America and their lowly employee JAYDER SALAZAR who cheated me out of $7,000 plus dollars of hard earned money by giving me a fake 100% money back guarantee and other false statements and lies over the phone. My initial goal was to cause Mentoring of America LLC $7,000 in consumer refunds by informing all of you readers here on ROR about the steps I took that worked for me in getting a full refund from these frauds after all previous attempts failed. Refunds that would have otherwise gone undelivered had I not shared my information and knowledge with you people here. I am pleased to see my Mentoring of America refund revenge tally is reaching the $100,000 mark, far surpassing my original goal of $7,000. If anyone out there reading has gotten a refund by following my suggestions on this site from Mentoring of America LLC, please let me know about it. I would like to add your refund dollar amount to my total. That is all I ask in return from you. This is proof that if you stiff the wrong customer like Mentoring of America did me, it can cost you many times over. Patricia from Massachusetts got a full $12,499 refund. See it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff236737.htm Jeff from Massachusetts got a full $6,499 refund. See it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff203813.htm Alexis from Florida got a full $7,485 refund. See it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff203194.htm Kingcia from Florida got a full $14,695 refund. See it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff208959.htm Scott from Florida gets full $7,499 refund. See it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff210786.htm Lloyd from Minnesota got a $9,700 refund. See it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff212345.htm Person that I personally guided and advised over the telephone and via e-mail got a $9,500 refund. GRAND TOTAL OF ISSUED MENTORING OF AMERICA LLC REFUNDS WITHIN THE LAST 7 MONTHS: $74,902.00 This is the amount in refunds that Mentoring of America has had to issue because ROR readers read and implemented my advice and suggestions since the last 7 months on this site. My advice and suggestions are proven to help you get all your thousands of dollars back from the fraudulent John Beck/Mentoring of America. Read it, use it. I did this for all people that have been conned by these frauds. MENTORING OF AMERICA LLC IS VERY FORTUNATE THAT I DON'T LIVE IN UTAH: Would someone who lives in Utah please have a local investigative news team do an undercover investigation and then expose Mentoring of America on live TV? I am sick and tired of seeing Mentoring of America still in business fleecing customers everyday for anywhere between $1,500 and $15,000 per person for the exact same amount of coaching calls, same product, and same service based on people's credit limits, financial situations, or available funds. Mentoring of America is extremely fortunate that I do not live in Utah, or I would have already done everything in my power to make this happen.
Patricia
Fall River,#3Author of original report
Tue, March 13, 2007
Yes I finaly got both my credit cards credited for the full 12,499.00. Thank you for all your help People reading this. If you to got conned by this company than stand up and fight. Don't let them intemidate you. These people live for this. Stand your ground. I have closed my cards and have new one issued. They will be sent to me in about 5 days or so. They sent me the letter and they wanted me to sign it however I will not because that famious saying is still on this letter to by issuing this refund Mentoring of America is in no way stating that they monies were not owed nor that the services were not rendered as promised. Well my cards are refunded and no I will not be signing this or anything else these snakes have to send me. I was fooled once only. Now I will find it hard to trust any company. This was a hard lesson to learn but one I will value for a life time. Again thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Anonymus
Southern,#4Consumer Comment
Sat, March 10, 2007
Utah Telephone Fraud Prevention Act: 13-26-5. Right of rescission -- Cancellation. (1) (a) Except as provided in Subsections (1)(b) and (c), in addition to any right to otherwise revoke an offer, a person making a purchase from a telephone soliciting business required to be registered under this chapter may cancel the sale up to midnight of the third business day after the receipt of the merchandise or premium, whichever is later, provided the solicitor advises the purchaser of his cancellation rights under this chapter at the time any solicitation is made. (b) If the solicitor required to be registered under this chapter fails to orally advise a purchaser of the right to cancel under this section at the time of any solicitation, the purchaser's right to cancel shall be extended to 90 days. (c) If the solicitor required to be registered under this chapter fails to orally advise a purchaser of his true name, telephone number, and complete street address at the time of any solicitation, the purchaser may cancel the sale at any time. (2) Sales shall be cancelled by mailing a notice of cancellation to the telephone solicitor's correct street address, postage prepaid. If the telephone solicitor provided no correct street address, cancellation can be accomplished by sending a notice of cancellation to the division's offices, postage prepaid. (3) (a) If a cancellation involves durable goods, as defined by rule, those goods shall be returned to the seller. (b) If expendable goods are involved, the purchaser shall return any unused portion of those goods. (c) A reasonable attempt shall be made to return goods to the solicitor's correct street address within seven days of exercising the right to cancel, providing the solicitor has provided the purchaser with the address. If the solicitor has failed to give a correct address, no return is required to qualify for a full refund of the purchase price. (d) If the purchaser has used any portion of the services or goods purchased, the solicitor or telephone soliciting business shall receive a reasonable allowance for value given. This allowance may be deducted from any refund due the purchaser. (e) A solicitor shall be jointly and severally liable with the telephone soliciting business for any refund amount due following the cancellation of a sale made by the solicitor. (4) For the purposes of this section, "business day" does not include Sunday or a federal or state holiday. See it here: le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE13/htm/13_1B006.htm
Anonymus
Southern,#5Consumer Comment
Sat, March 10, 2007
Utah Telephone Fraud Prevention Act: 13-26-5. Right of rescission -- Cancellation. (1) (a) Except as provided in Subsections (1)(b) and (c), in addition to any right to otherwise revoke an offer, a person making a purchase from a telephone soliciting business required to be registered under this chapter may cancel the sale up to midnight of the third business day after the receipt of the merchandise or premium, whichever is later, provided the solicitor advises the purchaser of his cancellation rights under this chapter at the time any solicitation is made. (b) If the solicitor required to be registered under this chapter fails to orally advise a purchaser of the right to cancel under this section at the time of any solicitation, the purchaser's right to cancel shall be extended to 90 days. (c) If the solicitor required to be registered under this chapter fails to orally advise a purchaser of his true name, telephone number, and complete street address at the time of any solicitation, the purchaser may cancel the sale at any time. (2) Sales shall be cancelled by mailing a notice of cancellation to the telephone solicitor's correct street address, postage prepaid. If the telephone solicitor provided no correct street address, cancellation can be accomplished by sending a notice of cancellation to the division's offices, postage prepaid. (3) (a) If a cancellation involves durable goods, as defined by rule, those goods shall be returned to the seller. (b) If expendable goods are involved, the purchaser shall return any unused portion of those goods. (c) A reasonable attempt shall be made to return goods to the solicitor's correct street address within seven days of exercising the right to cancel, providing the solicitor has provided the purchaser with the address. If the solicitor has failed to give a correct address, no return is required to qualify for a full refund of the purchase price. (d) If the purchaser has used any portion of the services or goods purchased, the solicitor or telephone soliciting business shall receive a reasonable allowance for value given. This allowance may be deducted from any refund due the purchaser. (e) A solicitor shall be jointly and severally liable with the telephone soliciting business for any refund amount due following the cancellation of a sale made by the solicitor. (4) For the purposes of this section, "business day" does not include Sunday or a federal or state holiday. See it here: le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE13/htm/13_1B006.htm
Anonymus
Southern,#6Consumer Comment
Sat, March 10, 2007
Utah Telephone Fraud Prevention Act: 13-26-5. Right of rescission -- Cancellation. (1) (a) Except as provided in Subsections (1)(b) and (c), in addition to any right to otherwise revoke an offer, a person making a purchase from a telephone soliciting business required to be registered under this chapter may cancel the sale up to midnight of the third business day after the receipt of the merchandise or premium, whichever is later, provided the solicitor advises the purchaser of his cancellation rights under this chapter at the time any solicitation is made. (b) If the solicitor required to be registered under this chapter fails to orally advise a purchaser of the right to cancel under this section at the time of any solicitation, the purchaser's right to cancel shall be extended to 90 days. (c) If the solicitor required to be registered under this chapter fails to orally advise a purchaser of his true name, telephone number, and complete street address at the time of any solicitation, the purchaser may cancel the sale at any time. (2) Sales shall be cancelled by mailing a notice of cancellation to the telephone solicitor's correct street address, postage prepaid. If the telephone solicitor provided no correct street address, cancellation can be accomplished by sending a notice of cancellation to the division's offices, postage prepaid. (3) (a) If a cancellation involves durable goods, as defined by rule, those goods shall be returned to the seller. (b) If expendable goods are involved, the purchaser shall return any unused portion of those goods. (c) A reasonable attempt shall be made to return goods to the solicitor's correct street address within seven days of exercising the right to cancel, providing the solicitor has provided the purchaser with the address. If the solicitor has failed to give a correct address, no return is required to qualify for a full refund of the purchase price. (d) If the purchaser has used any portion of the services or goods purchased, the solicitor or telephone soliciting business shall receive a reasonable allowance for value given. This allowance may be deducted from any refund due the purchaser. (e) A solicitor shall be jointly and severally liable with the telephone soliciting business for any refund amount due following the cancellation of a sale made by the solicitor. (4) For the purposes of this section, "business day" does not include Sunday or a federal or state holiday. See it here: le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE13/htm/13_1B006.htm
Patricia
Fall River,#7Author of original report
Sat, March 10, 2007
I just wanted to thank you for all your help and guidence. Karen asked me why I had did the dispute and why I filled all the complaints I did and why. I told her that she refused to credit me and that all I got was rude remarks, lies and excuses. I also told her that I was not going to accept any less then the full amount because I canceled in the 3 days and still got only a parcile refund offered. I told her I signed nothing and received nothing and therefore I was intitled to all my refund. She asked me if once I received my refund would I drop all these complaints. I told her it did not need to have gone this far if only she had refunded my money when requested. She said its a business. I told her what-ever. I just know she said she issused it today and that I should see it on Wednesday no later. We will see. Once this is over I will be closing out those cards. I can't understand why she made me play hard ball. She did not know who she was playing with and what else I have up my sleeve for the future. Like I said now she wants to play nice and try to act like my freind. What a Joke. Well keep in touch. But again just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart!! Anyone else that has been taken by this company do the same. Fill all those complaints it takes time but it will pay off at the end
Patricia
Fall River,#8Author of original report
Sat, March 10, 2007
I just wanted to thank you for all your help and guidence. Karen asked me why I had did the dispute and why I filled all the complaints I did and why. I told her that she refused to credit me and that all I got was rude remarks, lies and excuses. I also told her that I was not going to accept any less then the full amount because I canceled in the 3 days and still got only a parcile refund offered. I told her I signed nothing and received nothing and therefore I was intitled to all my refund. She asked me if once I received my refund would I drop all these complaints. I told her it did not need to have gone this far if only she had refunded my money when requested. She said its a business. I told her what-ever. I just know she said she issused it today and that I should see it on Wednesday no later. We will see. Once this is over I will be closing out those cards. I can't understand why she made me play hard ball. She did not know who she was playing with and what else I have up my sleeve for the future. Like I said now she wants to play nice and try to act like my freind. What a Joke. Well keep in touch. But again just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart!! Anyone else that has been taken by this company do the same. Fill all those complaints it takes time but it will pay off at the end
Patricia
Fall River,#9Author of original report
Sat, March 10, 2007
I just wanted to thank you for all your help and guidence. Karen asked me why I had did the dispute and why I filled all the complaints I did and why. I told her that she refused to credit me and that all I got was rude remarks, lies and excuses. I also told her that I was not going to accept any less then the full amount because I canceled in the 3 days and still got only a parcile refund offered. I told her I signed nothing and received nothing and therefore I was intitled to all my refund. She asked me if once I received my refund would I drop all these complaints. I told her it did not need to have gone this far if only she had refunded my money when requested. She said its a business. I told her what-ever. I just know she said she issused it today and that I should see it on Wednesday no later. We will see. Once this is over I will be closing out those cards. I can't understand why she made me play hard ball. She did not know who she was playing with and what else I have up my sleeve for the future. Like I said now she wants to play nice and try to act like my freind. What a Joke. Well keep in touch. But again just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart!! Anyone else that has been taken by this company do the same. Fill all those complaints it takes time but it will pay off at the end
Patricia
Fall River,#10Author of original report
Sat, March 10, 2007
I just wanted to thank you for all your help and guidence. Karen asked me why I had did the dispute and why I filled all the complaints I did and why. I told her that she refused to credit me and that all I got was rude remarks, lies and excuses. I also told her that I was not going to accept any less then the full amount because I canceled in the 3 days and still got only a parcile refund offered. I told her I signed nothing and received nothing and therefore I was intitled to all my refund. She asked me if once I received my refund would I drop all these complaints. I told her it did not need to have gone this far if only she had refunded my money when requested. She said its a business. I told her what-ever. I just know she said she issused it today and that I should see it on Wednesday no later. We will see. Once this is over I will be closing out those cards. I can't understand why she made me play hard ball. She did not know who she was playing with and what else I have up my sleeve for the future. Like I said now she wants to play nice and try to act like my freind. What a Joke. Well keep in touch. But again just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart!! Anyone else that has been taken by this company do the same. Fill all those complaints it takes time but it will pay off at the end
Anonymus
Southern,#11Consumer Comment
Sat, March 10, 2007
UTAH CONSUMER PROCTECTION STATUTE: According to Utah consumer protection statutes, Mentoring of America MUST HONOR THE 3 DAY CANCELLATION PERIOD NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY OR TELL YOU. END OF STORY NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. IF YOU WERE NEVER TOLD BY MENTORING OF AMERICA THAT YOU HAD 3 DAYS TO CANCEL THE PROGRAM AND GET A REFUND, THAT TOO IS ANOTHER VIOLATION. THIS IS AGAINST UTAH STATUTE. If you reading this have attempted to cancel within 3 days and Mentoring of America has refused to honor a refund like they did to Patricia and everyone else on this site, Mentoring of America IS VIOLATING UTAH STATUTE and the TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT. Mentoring of America is also in violation if they failed to even tell you that you had 3 days in which to cancel the program and obtain a FULL refund. They do this purposely to a LOT of people. They don't tell them they have 3 days to cancel and get a refund. They just want you cash. Again this is fraud and against Utah statute. THE TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT: Utah Code -- Title 13 -- Chapter 26 -- PROHIBITED PRACTICES states THE FOLLOWING: 13-26-11. Prohibited practices. (1) It is unlawful for any solicitor: (a) to solicit prospective purchasers on behalf of a telephone soliciting business that is not registered with the division or exempt from registration under this chapter; (b) to use a fictitious personal name in connection with a telephone solicitation; (c) to make or cause to be made any untrue material statement, or fail to disclose a material fact necessary to make any statement made not misleading, whether in connection with a telephone solicitation or a filing with the division; (d) to make or authorize the making of any misrepresentation about its compliance with this chapter to any prospective or actual purchaser; (e) to fail to refund within 30 days any amount due a purchaser who exercises the right to cancel under Section 13-26-5; or (f) to fail to orally advise a purchaser of the purchaser's right to cancel under Section 13-26-5 unless the solicitor is exempt under Section 13-26-4. (2) It is unlawful for any telephone soliciting business: (a) to cause or permit any solicitor to violate any provision of this chapter; or (b) to use inmates in telephone soliciting operations where inmates have access to personal data about an individual sufficient to physically locate or contact that individual, such as names, addresses, telephone numbers, Social Security numbers, credit card information, or physical descriptions. A NOTE TO EVERYONE READING AND/OR SEEKING A FULL REFUND FROM JOHN BECK/MENTORING OF AMERICA LLC: The above is just a portion of the Utah statutes that exist to protect you. You should be aware of of them. You can read in detail about the UTAH TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT, THE CONSUMER SALES PRACTICE ACT, BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY DISCLOSURE ACT in the link below: http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/enforcement/statute.html Mentoring of America has already been repeatedly fined by the Utah Division of Consumer Protection for continuing to violate the above 3 statutes I just mentioned. They are known for fraud and ripoffs. Read each statute in detail. Then you can declair that Mentoring of America has violated Utah statute, commited fraud, and must issue you a full refund on top of all your other complaints. PATRICIA YOU ARE DOING GOOD. YOUR $12,499 REFUND IS NEAR: Patricia, keep up the good work. Do exactly as your credit card company told you. DON NOT DROP THE DISPUTE UNTIL ALL $12,499 YOU MONEY IS REFUNDED AND YOU GET THIS ALL IN WRITTING FROM KAREN JOHNSON/MENTORING OF AMERICA. EVERY PENNY. Keep me updated so that I can add your refund amount to my growing Mentoring of America refund revenge tally.
Anonymus
Southern,#12Consumer Comment
Sat, March 10, 2007
UTAH CONSUMER PROCTECTION STATUTE: According to Utah consumer protection statutes, Mentoring of America MUST HONOR THE 3 DAY CANCELLATION PERIOD NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY OR TELL YOU. END OF STORY NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. IF YOU WERE NEVER TOLD BY MENTORING OF AMERICA THAT YOU HAD 3 DAYS TO CANCEL THE PROGRAM AND GET A REFUND, THAT TOO IS ANOTHER VIOLATION. THIS IS AGAINST UTAH STATUTE. If you reading this have attempted to cancel within 3 days and Mentoring of America has refused to honor a refund like they did to Patricia and everyone else on this site, Mentoring of America IS VIOLATING UTAH STATUTE and the TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT. Mentoring of America is also in violation if they failed to even tell you that you had 3 days in which to cancel the program and obtain a FULL refund. They do this purposely to a LOT of people. They don't tell them they have 3 days to cancel and get a refund. They just want you cash. Again this is fraud and against Utah statute. THE TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT: Utah Code -- Title 13 -- Chapter 26 -- PROHIBITED PRACTICES states THE FOLLOWING: 13-26-11. Prohibited practices. (1) It is unlawful for any solicitor: (a) to solicit prospective purchasers on behalf of a telephone soliciting business that is not registered with the division or exempt from registration under this chapter; (b) to use a fictitious personal name in connection with a telephone solicitation; (c) to make or cause to be made any untrue material statement, or fail to disclose a material fact necessary to make any statement made not misleading, whether in connection with a telephone solicitation or a filing with the division; (d) to make or authorize the making of any misrepresentation about its compliance with this chapter to any prospective or actual purchaser; (e) to fail to refund within 30 days any amount due a purchaser who exercises the right to cancel under Section 13-26-5; or (f) to fail to orally advise a purchaser of the purchaser's right to cancel under Section 13-26-5 unless the solicitor is exempt under Section 13-26-4. (2) It is unlawful for any telephone soliciting business: (a) to cause or permit any solicitor to violate any provision of this chapter; or (b) to use inmates in telephone soliciting operations where inmates have access to personal data about an individual sufficient to physically locate or contact that individual, such as names, addresses, telephone numbers, Social Security numbers, credit card information, or physical descriptions. A NOTE TO EVERYONE READING AND/OR SEEKING A FULL REFUND FROM JOHN BECK/MENTORING OF AMERICA LLC: The above is just a portion of the Utah statutes that exist to protect you. You should be aware of of them. You can read in detail about the UTAH TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT, THE CONSUMER SALES PRACTICE ACT, BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY DISCLOSURE ACT in the link below: http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/enforcement/statute.html Mentoring of America has already been repeatedly fined by the Utah Division of Consumer Protection for continuing to violate the above 3 statutes I just mentioned. They are known for fraud and ripoffs. Read each statute in detail. Then you can declair that Mentoring of America has violated Utah statute, commited fraud, and must issue you a full refund on top of all your other complaints. PATRICIA YOU ARE DOING GOOD. YOUR $12,499 REFUND IS NEAR: Patricia, keep up the good work. Do exactly as your credit card company told you. DON NOT DROP THE DISPUTE UNTIL ALL $12,499 YOU MONEY IS REFUNDED AND YOU GET THIS ALL IN WRITTING FROM KAREN JOHNSON/MENTORING OF AMERICA. EVERY PENNY. Keep me updated so that I can add your refund amount to my growing Mentoring of America refund revenge tally.
Anonymus
Southern,#13Consumer Comment
Sat, March 10, 2007
UTAH CONSUMER PROCTECTION STATUTE: According to Utah consumer protection statutes, Mentoring of America MUST HONOR THE 3 DAY CANCELLATION PERIOD NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY OR TELL YOU. END OF STORY NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. IF YOU WERE NEVER TOLD BY MENTORING OF AMERICA THAT YOU HAD 3 DAYS TO CANCEL THE PROGRAM AND GET A REFUND, THAT TOO IS ANOTHER VIOLATION. THIS IS AGAINST UTAH STATUTE. If you reading this have attempted to cancel within 3 days and Mentoring of America has refused to honor a refund like they did to Patricia and everyone else on this site, Mentoring of America IS VIOLATING UTAH STATUTE and the TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT. Mentoring of America is also in violation if they failed to even tell you that you had 3 days in which to cancel the program and obtain a FULL refund. They do this purposely to a LOT of people. They don't tell them they have 3 days to cancel and get a refund. They just want you cash. Again this is fraud and against Utah statute. THE TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT: Utah Code -- Title 13 -- Chapter 26 -- PROHIBITED PRACTICES states THE FOLLOWING: 13-26-11. Prohibited practices. (1) It is unlawful for any solicitor: (a) to solicit prospective purchasers on behalf of a telephone soliciting business that is not registered with the division or exempt from registration under this chapter; (b) to use a fictitious personal name in connection with a telephone solicitation; (c) to make or cause to be made any untrue material statement, or fail to disclose a material fact necessary to make any statement made not misleading, whether in connection with a telephone solicitation or a filing with the division; (d) to make or authorize the making of any misrepresentation about its compliance with this chapter to any prospective or actual purchaser; (e) to fail to refund within 30 days any amount due a purchaser who exercises the right to cancel under Section 13-26-5; or (f) to fail to orally advise a purchaser of the purchaser's right to cancel under Section 13-26-5 unless the solicitor is exempt under Section 13-26-4. (2) It is unlawful for any telephone soliciting business: (a) to cause or permit any solicitor to violate any provision of this chapter; or (b) to use inmates in telephone soliciting operations where inmates have access to personal data about an individual sufficient to physically locate or contact that individual, such as names, addresses, telephone numbers, Social Security numbers, credit card information, or physical descriptions. A NOTE TO EVERYONE READING AND/OR SEEKING A FULL REFUND FROM JOHN BECK/MENTORING OF AMERICA LLC: The above is just a portion of the Utah statutes that exist to protect you. You should be aware of of them. You can read in detail about the UTAH TELEPHONE FRAUD PREVENTION ACT, THE CONSUMER SALES PRACTICE ACT, BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY DISCLOSURE ACT in the link below: http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/enforcement/statute.html Mentoring of America has already been repeatedly fined by the Utah Division of Consumer Protection for continuing to violate the above 3 statutes I just mentioned. They are known for fraud and ripoffs. Read each statute in detail. Then you can declair that Mentoring of America has violated Utah statute, commited fraud, and must issue you a full refund on top of all your other complaints. PATRICIA YOU ARE DOING GOOD. YOUR $12,499 REFUND IS NEAR: Patricia, keep up the good work. Do exactly as your credit card company told you. DON NOT DROP THE DISPUTE UNTIL ALL $12,499 YOU MONEY IS REFUNDED AND YOU GET THIS ALL IN WRITTING FROM KAREN JOHNSON/MENTORING OF AMERICA. EVERY PENNY. Keep me updated so that I can add your refund amount to my growing Mentoring of America refund revenge tally.
Patricia
Fall River,#14Author of original report
Fri, March 09, 2007
I have filed all my complaines and I even call the atnery generals office in MA and filed a complaint,funny thing I didn't know about was because my husband is 60 years old another law is violated to. They did not get into it but I explained the sitiontion to them and they asked me if I was 60 years or older. I told him no but that my husband was and he told was involved in this complaint. The same day I also made a dispute to my credit card-Discover. Al was sending out the notice of my complaint and he had told me that they had 10 days to respond. So quess who call me. Yep it was Karen Johnson and she said she was going to give me my full refund however I needed to drop the dispute. I called Discover and they told me to get it in writing because once I drop the dispute I cannot reopen it unless I get it in writing. So I called Karen and told her that per my credit cards advise I would need it in writing that I will only drop the dispute when my credit card it credit the full amount. She said she would and again asked me if the dispute was dropped I told her no and that it would not until I received it in writting. Karen Johnson changed her attitude with me. Before she was playing hard ball and now she claims that she was always on my side and was always trying to help me Bull. People out there reading this please becareful of this tactic. Make sure you get all the information before dropping any dispute. Don't let your guard down. She said she was electronically crediting my credit cards today and that it should show up by wednesday the latest. We'll see. Once I get my credit I will let you reading know. For now its just the waiting game.
Anonymus
Southern,#15Consumer Comment
Wed, March 07, 2007
Patricia, I have more ammunition for you to help you get a full $12,499 refund. MENTORING OF AMERICA HAS VIOLATED CONSUMER PROTECTOIN STATUTES: Here is a look at the Utah consumer protection statutes that Mentoring of America has violated: In October 2004, the Utah Division of Consumer Protection fined Mentoring of America for violating the following Utah statutes: Mentoring of America violated Consumer Sales Practices Act Telephone Fraud Prevention Act Again in October 2005 the Utah Division of Consumer Protection gave Mentoring of America an administrative fine and made them issue refunds to numerous customers that they ripped off listed on an agreement they went into with the Utah Division. They later violated this agreement. Mentoring of America again violated: Consumer Sales Practices Act Utah Telephone Fraud Prevention Act Business Opportunity Act And YET AGAIN in April 2006 Mentoring of America continues to violate. This time the Utah Division of Consumer Protection filed an amended complaint with the Third Judicial District Court of the State of Utah against Mentoring of America LLC, John Beck Amazing Profits LLC, and Jeff Paul (MOA). Charges filed indicate MOA breached the settlement agreement dated October 28, 2005 by FAILING to file the disclosures required to sell assisted marketing plans; HONOR THE THREE DAY RIGHT TO CANCEL; and reform its business practices. Here once again Mentoring of America violated: Consumer Sales Practices Act Business Opportunity Disclosure Act Telephone Fraud Prevention Act. The Utah Division of Consumer Protection is seeking: damages and restitution for loss suffered by consumers to date. And Mentoring of America still continues to violate the above statutes by not honoring their 3 day right to cancel like they did to you Patricia. Here is a detailed list of what each consumer statute says MOA can't do. Go to the link below, and click on each act that Mentoring of America has violated in the past ( the same acts i just mentioned above), then on each statute number to read it yourself: http://consumerprotection.utah.gov/enforcement/statute.html Anyone else reading this that wants their full refund, go to the above link and read the past acts that MOA has been fined for violating in the past that I just mentioned above. If any of what the statutes mention happened to you, write down the statute number and include this in your consumer complaint to the Utah Division of Consumer Protection. Include the names of the people of Mentoring of America that you spoke with and send the complaint to Utah investigator Ao Pauga. Patricia, make it clear that Mentoring of America is once again in violation of Utah consumer protection statutes by not honoring your 3 day right of cancel. Prove that you did attempt to cancel within the 3 day period by printing out your dated e-mails you had sent to the lowly Randy Austin. The guy who got them and then refused to issue you a refund or cancel after he told you that you had 3 days to do it before you paid. Get these copies to Ao with your complaint. Keep me updated Patricia.
Anonymus
Southern,#16Consumer Comment
Thu, March 01, 2007
Don't listen to Gerry about accepting Karen's handout and letting her steal $800 or so of your cash. That's what Karen IS HOPING and WANTS you do. Karen and MOA wants you to simply quit, throw your hands in the air, give up, and run away with your tail between your legs while she pockets $800 of you cash. Don't let Karen stiff you out of $800 for a non existing fee. If she really had you recorded on tape agreeing that you will not get your money back no matter what, she would not be offering even a partial refund. She is NOT doing anything out of the kindness of her heart. Unless you personally hear this supposed recording and it realy is you 100% agreeing to everything Karen Johnson claims, they have nothing on you. Don't buy any of their BS intimidation and excuses no matter what they are. You need to send their way a fist in a velvet glove. Do that by doing the above steps. No disrespect, but it's clear Gerry has never dealt with this company and/or individuals. Gerry is merely expressing his opinion and that's fine. But I have first hand knowledge here. I have also personaly contributed to over $62,000 in MOA refunds within the last 7 months both on and off this website. For more info, read the success stories of those I have personaly advised/guided on this site to refunds. You have all the tools now Patricia. Go get that $12,499.00 refund and never give up the fight no matter what. Then come back and tell us about it. Keep me updated on the way so that I can best assist you. Then I can add your refund to my growing Mentoring of America refund revenge tally. READ OTHER SUCCESSFULL REFUND PAGES: Jeff from Massachusetts got a full $6,499 refund. See it here: www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff203813.htm Alexis from Florida got a full $7,485 refund. See it here: www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff203194.htm Kingcia from Florida got a full $14,695 refund. See it here: www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff208959.htm Scott from Florida gets full $7,499 refund. See it here: www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff210786.htm Lloyd from Minnesota got a $9,700 refund. See it here: www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff212345.htm
Anonymus
Southern,#17Consumer Comment
Wed, February 28, 2007
Don't forget to send you tape recordings along with your Utah consumer complaint form to investigator Ao.
Anonymus
Southern,#18Consumer Comment
Wed, February 28, 2007
Patricia, I have prepared this just for you. Please read all of the following to get a FULL refund and most importantly do it. I was under the impression that you had already filed a Utah Division of Consumer Protection complaint form with Ao Pauga. That was the first thing you should have done instead of wasting your time talking to Karen Johnson. Karen does not want you to file this because she knows that the more of these complaints people file against her and MOA, the worse it is for the company. Ao has received many so far. Mentoring of America has already been featured on live TV news for fraud and lawsuits filed against them. Now it's time to play hardball with Karen and get her to issue a FULL refund. Here's how: Patricia, what you need to do is hit Mentoring of America with NUMEOURS complaints with different agencies, and from different directions, all at the same time. In addition to filing a consumer complaint with Ao, file the following complaints AT THE SAME TIME. What this does it land numerous complaints on Karen's desk all at the same time. This is what you want. She does not want this because it's bad for her and the company. She will be more willing to issue you a FULL refund this way. So file the following complaints at the same time: 1. FILE A CONSUMER COMPLAINT FORM AGAINST MENTORING OF AMERICA WITH THE UTAH DIVISION OF CONSUMER PROTECTION: Copy and paste this link to your browser for a copy of the consumer complaint form that you need: If the link below appear cut in half, put both halves together on your browser or go to their homepage for one. dcp.utah.gov consumerprotection.utah.gov/downloads/complaintform.pdf A. Print this consumer complaint form out, fill it out completely, sign it, date it, mail and/or fax it into the Utah Division of Consumer Protection office. Their address and fax number is right on the form itself. This is Mentoring of America's main corporate office. Use this address on your complaint form and all other complaints that you file, regardless of which of their other many Utah offices you are dealing with or getting your coaching from: Mentoring of America LLC 752 East 1180 South Suite #200 American Fork, Utah 84003 Phone: 877-704-6346 B. BE SURE to staple to this Utah complaint form, a copy of your CREDIT CARD/BANK ACCOUNT STATEMENTS with the dollar amount Mentoring of America/John Beck has charged you clearly highlighted for Ao to see. C. Also staple a copy of the unsigned "Enrollment Confirmation" page if you have it. Mentoring of America should have sent you an "Enrollment Confirmation" page that they wanted you to sign and return back to them. It's a single sheet of paper that shows the last 4 digits of your credit card(s), the price you paid for everything, the date, their company logo at the top, what you are getting for that price i.e., 10 half hour weekly calls, and a few software Cd's, etc. If you still have it with you and have not signed it, make a copy of it, and also staple it to you complaint form and send it in all together. If this is the case, check "NO" on the Utah complaint form where it asks if you entered any type of written contract. Do not sign this "Enrollment Confirmation" page. And even if you did, just know that nowhere on this page was there any mention of a no refund policy or all sales final anyway. I know this because I still have mine. If you never got an "Enrollment Confirmation" sent to you by Mentoring of America, call them and ask them to send you one in the mail right away. Don't tell them anything else, just that you need one sent for you to sign and return back to them because you never got one. When you get it, KEEP it, DON'T send it back, and DON'T sign it. Make a copy and staple it to your Utah complaint form. This will help your case tremendously. D. Use the "Summary" box of the Utah consumer complaint form to explain in detail your entire situation. BE SURE to include all fake promises their people told you, fake money back guarantees, lies, false statements, never mentioned a no-refund policy, misrepresentations, lack of communication, difficulty reaching them by any means, disconnected and changed phone numbers, as well as the names of any of Mentoring of America and John Beck's people you remember speaking with like Karen Johnson, Crystal, Randy Austin, etc. Also mention Karen's rudeness and intimidation towards you. Make it clear that you want a full refund of $12,499.00 and will accept nothing less than the full amount. That all of your attempts to cancel withing the 3 day cancellation period you were told and given by Randy Austin failed. Mention that you have the dated e-mails from Randy that prove he got the cancelation request in time, and still refused to honor it. That all attempts to resolve the issue directly with Mentoring of America have all failed. Print these e-mails out Patricia and staple them all to your Utah complaint form as proof that you exercised your right to cancel within 3 days, and they refused. Highlight Randy Austin's name and the date. Don't forget to staple copies of your bank/credit card statement with charges highlighted as well as the unsigned "Enrollment Confirmation" page. E. When you see that your complaint form has arrived at the Utah Division of Consumer Protection office by either fax or mail, keep in direct contact with Utah investigator Ao Pauga at 801-530-6601. His first name is pronounced as "Al" as you might already know. This is the investigator who is dealing with Mentoring of America. This is the person you want to verify with that your complaint has been processed, and keep in touch with about it also. This is the person who helped me get my $7,000 plus back, as well numeorus other people on this site I mentioned on other pages who go refunds. #2 FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST JOHN BECK AND ANOTHER AGAINST MENTORING OF AMERICA WITH THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU (BBB.com). A. The more complaints from different directions you file against them, the better. Mentoring of America and John Beck will receive notification when you do this, and they will see that you are not playing games. Again, for Mentoring of America, file the complaint directly against their main corporate office at: Mentoring of America LLC 752 East 1180 South Suite #200 American Fork, Utah 84003 Phone: 877-704-6346 B. Use the BBB complaint summary box to again explain everything you explained in the "summary" box of the Utah consumer complaint form above. Make it clear that you want a full refund of your remaining $6,500. #3 FILE ANOTHER COMPLAINT AGAINST JOHN BECK AND ANOTHER AGAINST MENTORING OF AMERICA WITH THE FEDERAL TRADE COMISSION (FTC.gov). A. Repeat the process here. Explain your situation once again just like you did on your Utah consumer complaint form. Again, make it clear that you want a full refund of your $12,499.00. That all your efforts to resolve the issue to your satisfaction (full refund) directly with Mentoring of America and Karen Johnson have all failed. #4 FILE ANOTHER COMPLAINT AGAINST MENTORING OF AMERICA WITH THE U.S SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION A.K.A SEC.(SCE.GOV). A. After the SEC receives a certain amount of complaints filed against a particular business or company, they will launch an investigation on that company. The SCE has recently done just that against a well known fraudulent pyramid scheme company called "Prosperity Automated Systems" or "PAS". The SCE has crushed, and shut them down and put them out of business for good just recently. I want the same to happen to Mentoring of America LLC out of Utah. If there are enough complaints, it can happen. Here Karen Johnson at first refused to issue a full refund and offered only a partial just like she is doing to you right now trying to keep some of the money. After the numerous complaints took effect, she issued a full refund and fully complied . The outragesouly high shipping, processing, and administrative fees Karen Johnson tells people are bogus and made up BS. There is no such thing. It's an attempt to keep part of your cash. ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff210786.htm Tell Karen Johnson that you know all about the numerous lawsuits that victims of this ripoff have filed in Utah against Mentoring of America LLC. Tell her that it was aired on live TV and that you saw the broadcast video here. Here is the broadcast. Copy and past the link. Just wait for the short commercial to end: wkrc.com/mediacenter/?videoId=10945=9 Also tell Karen Johnson that you know all about the past government action and fines that the Utah Division of Consumer Protection has taken and issued to Mentoring of America LLC over the past several years for continuing to violate consumer protection laws and breaching contracts. Read "Government Action Taken Against Mentoring of America LLC by the Utah Division of Consumer Protection". Read it here: ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff208959.htm Do come back and keep us posted and updated on the situation. At the end,I want to add your $12,499 refund to my growing Mentoring of America refund revenge tally.
Patricia
Fall River,#19Author of original report
Wed, February 28, 2007
I wish I had taped Randy telling me about the money back guaretee but I don't I did not know it was a skam at that time. I do hovever have everything else taped and have told Ao that I have it all on tape. Thank you for your advise and yes I will call her demanding to hear this tape. I would like to know if it does exist. As far as it goes for takining the money and running no way. I want a full refund I can not afford to to pay 800+ for these made up fees. I am willing to wait and fight for what is right. I have made out the report and will be sending it today. And the certified mail receipt that was sent out on the 21th has not been returned to me yet. Still waiting on that to. Will keep you updated on this report as I find out more info. But again thank you for all advise and help Will keep checking and reading
Gerry
Richmond,#20Consumer Comment
Tue, February 27, 2007
First off Patricia, Im sorry to hear you got taken by these dirt bags! However if it were me, Id be inclined to take the offer by them and run! Consider it a lesson! The reason is, that scams such as this will run its course over a set length of time! Then they will either file some sort of bankruptcy, or the people will close shop and either disappear or morph into another scam! Then you'll be left with nothing! Ill bet that this John Beck is just a paid actor who appears on these infomercials. In my opinion, the ones who should be held liable for these scams are the TV stations that give them a platform! This last Sunday I saw their infomercial! Anyway Patricia, Good luck in whatever you decide, I know it must be stressful!
Gerry
Richmond,#21Consumer Comment
Tue, February 27, 2007
First off Patricia, Im sorry to hear you got taken by these dirt bags! However if it were me, Id be inclined to take the offer by them and run! Consider it a lesson! The reason is, that scams such as this will run its course over a set length of time! Then they will either file some sort of bankruptcy, or the people will close shop and either disappear or morph into another scam! Then you'll be left with nothing! Ill bet that this John Beck is just a paid actor who appears on these infomercials. In my opinion, the ones who should be held liable for these scams are the TV stations that give them a platform! This last Sunday I saw their infomercial! Anyway Patricia, Good luck in whatever you decide, I know it must be stressful!
Gerry
Richmond,#22Consumer Comment
Tue, February 27, 2007
First off Patricia, Im sorry to hear you got taken by these dirt bags! However if it were me, Id be inclined to take the offer by them and run! Consider it a lesson! The reason is, that scams such as this will run its course over a set length of time! Then they will either file some sort of bankruptcy, or the people will close shop and either disappear or morph into another scam! Then you'll be left with nothing! Ill bet that this John Beck is just a paid actor who appears on these infomercials. In my opinion, the ones who should be held liable for these scams are the TV stations that give them a platform! This last Sunday I saw their infomercial! Anyway Patricia, Good luck in whatever you decide, I know it must be stressful!
Gerry
Richmond,#23Consumer Comment
Tue, February 27, 2007
First off Patricia, Im sorry to hear you got taken by these dirt bags! However if it were me, Id be inclined to take the offer by them and run! Consider it a lesson! The reason is, that scams such as this will run its course over a set length of time! Then they will either file some sort of bankruptcy, or the people will close shop and either disappear or morph into another scam! Then you'll be left with nothing! Ill bet that this John Beck is just a paid actor who appears on these infomercials. In my opinion, the ones who should be held liable for these scams are the TV stations that give them a platform! This last Sunday I saw their infomercial! Anyway Patricia, Good luck in whatever you decide, I know it must be stressful!
Anonymus
Southern,#24Consumer Comment
Tue, February 27, 2007
If you indeed tape recorded and caught Randy Austins sales pitch and false statement, you need to let Karen Johnson know you have this on tape. That you can prove Randy told you that you can cancel in 3 days. You will absolutely destroy them and their refusal to honor the 3 day cancelation if you take them to court and she will know this if you have this taped. That and the emails you have that prove Randy Austin did get your request to cancel well within the specfied time. Do not accept a partial refund from Karen Johnson. There is no such thing as a processing, shipping, and administrative fee. That is made up. She is simply trying to keep a portion of your money and betting that you will simply take the partial refund and get lost, while she keeps the $800 or so. Do not stop untill you get a full refund. What you need to do is this. You Patricia need to DEMAND that Karen Johnson prove that she has you recorded on tape agreeing to a no refund policy. You must demand that she playback the supposed recording over the phone and let you listen to it. Other people on this site have done so, and MOA could not provide the recordubg because it did not exits. They kept giving excuses as to why they can't let you listen to it, but kept insiting that they had it. Ao need to hear this. You should call Karen Johnson back and tape record the converstation. You need to get her on tape trying to intimimdate you and offering a partial refund again, as well as not honoring their 3 day cancellation you were given by the lowly Randy Austin. Get this on tape. Then send the tapes to Ao Pauga if she does not issue you a full refund. Karen Johnson is full of it. She can give you a full refund. Again, there is no such thing as an administrative, processing, shipping fee of $800. She's trying to keep some of your money and hope that you simply give up, and take what she is handing you and get lost. And she knows that Randy did tell you that you had 3 days to cancel because that is what they are trained to do. Tell people what they want to hear, then deni everything. Their company purposely makes it difficult to do this by not answering or putting you on hold without anyone picking up. Their main goal is to drag out the 3 day period. Read the other complaints and you'll find that Karen Johnson has issued full refunds to those who have followed my suggestions. So she sure as hell can give you back all your money.
Patricia
Fall River,#25Author of original report
Tue, February 27, 2007
Well my credit cards we charged the 12,499.00 today. I called Ao but he was out today will call tomarrow. I also received the fed-ex refund agreement.And that famous statement is in this agreement also " By issuing this refund, Mentoring of America is in no way stating that these monies were not owed nor that the services were not rendered as promised." And they only want to credit me 11,624.00. I'm not signing this bull crap. How can they charge me so much money for nothing???? Hey Anonymus thank you for your rebuttal, Ao claims that the programs are surpose to be different in some way. I told him no that I did not beleive that to be true. So anyone who is reading this and can help me prove MOA wrong. Or can help me or advise me I would be very grateful
Patricia
Fall River,#26Author of original report
Tue, February 27, 2007
Well my credit cards we charged the 12,499.00 today. I called Ao but he was out today will call tomarrow. I also received the fed-ex refund agreement.And that famous statement is in this agreement also " By issuing this refund, Mentoring of America is in no way stating that these monies were not owed nor that the services were not rendered as promised." And they only want to credit me 11,624.00. I'm not signing this bull crap. How can they charge me so much money for nothing???? Hey Anonymus thank you for your rebuttal, Ao claims that the programs are surpose to be different in some way. I told him no that I did not beleive that to be true. So anyone who is reading this and can help me prove MOA wrong. Or can help me or advise me I would be very grateful
Patricia
Fall River,#27Author of original report
Tue, February 27, 2007
Well my credit cards we charged the 12,499.00 today. I called Ao but he was out today will call tomarrow. I also received the fed-ex refund agreement.And that famous statement is in this agreement also " By issuing this refund, Mentoring of America is in no way stating that these monies were not owed nor that the services were not rendered as promised." And they only want to credit me 11,624.00. I'm not signing this bull crap. How can they charge me so much money for nothing???? Hey Anonymus thank you for your rebuttal, Ao claims that the programs are surpose to be different in some way. I told him no that I did not beleive that to be true. So anyone who is reading this and can help me prove MOA wrong. Or can help me or advise me I would be very grateful
Patricia
Fall River,#28Author of original report
Tue, February 27, 2007
Well my credit cards we charged the 12,499.00 today. I called Ao but he was out today will call tomarrow. I also received the fed-ex refund agreement.And that famous statement is in this agreement also " By issuing this refund, Mentoring of America is in no way stating that these monies were not owed nor that the services were not rendered as promised." And they only want to credit me 11,624.00. I'm not signing this bull crap. How can they charge me so much money for nothing???? Hey Anonymus thank you for your rebuttal, Ao claims that the programs are surpose to be different in some way. I told him no that I did not beleive that to be true. So anyone who is reading this and can help me prove MOA wrong. Or can help me or advise me I would be very grateful
Patricia
Fall River,#29Author of original report
Fri, February 23, 2007
On my original Report I put in the wrong date. I placed the order on Saterday Feb 17th Not Nov 17th I have been so worked up about the whole deal that I don't even know what day it is. Like I have asked if you do have any advice to help me out Please let me know. Thank you
Anonymus
Southern,#30Consumer Comment
Fri, February 23, 2007
All the complaints on this site of people having paid anywhere between $1,500 and $15,000 for the exact same product and service should be proof enough. Also, Ao should see this because he receives a bunch of complaint forms about Mentoring of America all with different prices that vary by thousands of dollars. If you leave your email addess on a reply here, I can e-mail you over a scanned copy of my original Enrollment Confirmation page that shows I paid $7,000 for the exact same product and service Mentoring of America charged you $12,499.00 for. If that and all the complaints on this site with different prices is not proof enought to Ao that MOA charges based on credit or available funds, I don't know what is. This is the only way I know of that I would be able to contact you Patricia. I would not advice you leave a telephone number. I still have my original Enrollment Confirmation and am willing to send you a copy so that you can prove to Ao that MOA charges everyone differently based on avaliable credit lines or available funds for the exact same product and service. This is pure fraud and maybe Ao would be able to do something about it.
Patricia
Fall River,#31Author of original report
Fri, February 23, 2007
Since my last report. I called Ao again and told him that Karen Johnson Never returned my call when she said she would in 10 to 15 minutes. I have since sent a registered letter notifying the company in writine that I am using my 3 day ROR to wanted my cards credeted the full $12,499.00 or that I would fill a report with the Division of Consumer Protection in Utah. Ao told me to call her and tell her that if I did not hear from her within the hour that I would start the process. She finally called me and offered me 11,624 stating that the remainder bal of 875 was to off set shipping, administrative and processing fees. I told her that was bull and that I wanted a full refund. She is still telling me that the 3 day ror does not apply in my case and that I should take the offer. That if not she had a case cause I agreed to all sales being final and no refunds. I called Ao and he told me that he could not advise me but if I was not satified with that offer that I could fill a complaint and send him my e-mails and all other back up paperwork that I have. So if anyone is reading this and has any advise please I am eager to read it. I also told Ao that the company was using fraud because there was no set price and that price was based on credit for the same service and materical. He said I would have to prove this. So if anyone out there is willing to come forward with any info to back up my claim it would be helpful and maybe it would finally put this co out of business for good