Complaint Review: Market Trends - Internet

This is Giovanni here. I put this down as a rebuttal because Lamont's comments are offensive, and vague, so I need to make sure that the air is clear. I also would like to take this occasion to ask the editor here how Market Trends rebuttal has made its way here, since I don't see the following: solid arguments; lack of insult; productive criticism. Be as it may, here are my re-rebuttals to this individual that runs Market Trends. "This is A Case Of Sour Grapes." I paid November 21st. I was unable to receive what I was told I was going to receive for the next 70 days. Only "confrontational" messages were answered, most of the others were ignored. I was told that my order was shipped at least 3 times, but nothing ever got here. I never received an explanation for any of the shipping instances. I was given a partial refund unilaterally, even though I never asked for it (I wanted the product); the refund was not for the total I paid. I received apologies together with a partial refund. He defines this a "case of Sour Grapes". "I Will Say One Thing And One Thing Only because The Rip Off Report Puts Up Any bodys complaint Whether It Is True Or Not. This Person Is An Out And Out Liar. And very Uncooperative." Market Trends calls me a liar, but Lamont doesn't explain why. As you can see, he has not rebuttaled anything I wrote, he simply says that I am a liar and that he gave me my money back. If he wants to make claims of this sort, I guess the minimum I should expect is that he shows some proof of my lies. As you can see, he doesn't tell how the story went (nor does he object to anything I reported in both my previous writings -and Lamont, if you're going to do it now, I guess it is a little late...), he simply calls me names and repeats that he gave me my money back. I can only guess one thing: that he called me a liar because I said that he/they were running a scam (and by the way, I said that in our correspondence, hoping he would actually answer my messages, not here on this report directly). Now, I am interpreting from what he says that he is not a scam because I received a (partial) refund. I would like to explain to him and everyone reading this that a scam is perpetrated when somebody makes false promises with the objective of gaining advantage from the situation. The outcome of the scam isn't always positive for the scammer, but that doesn't mean that the scam is not a scam. Quick example: I put a car for sale on ebay, but I don't have that car. I manage to get somebody to buy it and to send me the money for it. I fail to deliver the car (I don't have it), the person gets a hold of me, pressures me and I finally cave in and hand the money back. My operation was still a scam. Lamont's promises were false (he has not delivered what promised) and he has gained from that situation (still has 3.62 CDN of my money, plus he was able to hold the total -about 45 CDN- for 70 days, which helps with interests when you're in business). I am still willing to be proven wrong, but the only way he can do that is by delivering what he promised me; if he does, I'll make sure the entire world knows; until then, I don't have anything else to go with. If you go back to my messages, you'll see that I have continued offering him the opportunity of demonstrating to me that my accusations to him (running a scam) were false; I have persistently invited him to ship what I paid for. But he simply ignored it. If you look at his messages and his rebuttal, you'll see that he doesn't expressly say that he did ship my package, that he doesn't understand what has happened to it; he simply uses subtle references to suggest to you that he shipped (for instance, he says he contacted US mail for non delivery -in regards to what? He doesn't say; could be some other package...). If you go back to our correspondence, you'll see that he never, in any message he sent me, refers to being in the process of contacting the post office to investigate what happened. In none of the instances, you see him saying that he's puzzled, that the package should have already arrived (or anything along that line). One example is in the matter of my messages dated last week. He did not respond to them but if he had shipped and was in the process of verifying what was happening, he would have let me know, but he never responded to those messages! He calls me another name: uncooperative. Facts once again: Nov 21st I paid in the next 70 days I was told package was shipping in the next little while at least 3 times, but I never received anything. Jan 30th I received refund for most of what I paid, not all (I never asked for a refund). If you go back to the messages I exchanged with Lamont, you can decide for yourself if i am uncooperative (and therefore Lamont's epithet is correct) or I am cooperative (and therefore Lamont is a liar that dares calling me a liar). "They Have Been re-credited Through Their credit Card Because They kept complaining. We Have Complained To The Post Office With No Avail For Non Delivery." Last time he said he'd ship (and supplied tracking number) was some 10 days before my final complaint. His delivery should have taken 5 days to arrive. Should I have simply kept my mouth shut and continued to wait for another 70 days? I am not sure what he means with the complaint to the post office, but I know (USPS will tell you this, you don't have to trust me) that the delivery system he used cannot be tracked, so that number cannot be used for tracking purposes. You can read his email where he says, give it a couple of days, and it'll be there! Was he simply ignorant about this delivery system, or was he deliberatly lying? It must be one of the two, I'll let you pick. But if he was ignorant, why would he not look into it? "So They Were Given A Refund. In Addition We Don't Handle Credit Cards. In Order For A Customer To Purchase Any Of Our Products They Must Submit it Themselves, With Their Own Credit Cards. This Protects Them And Us From credit Card Fraud So how Is That Possible For Us To Have A Credit Card Fraud. Ridiculous!" I have written to him a lot and to this site almost as much, but I don't think I said he was running a credit card scam. I said that he had all the bells and whistle to make the operations look good, like a company that handles credit card payments, I don't think you could evince from my message that I wanted to suggest he was running a credit card scam. Once again, Lamont is lying, since he has issued me a partial refund, not a complete refund (and by the way, he ignores this discrepancy as well!) " We Have Nothing More To Do With This Person As They Are Very Nasty. We Noticed being In business As Long As We Have, Every Now And Then You Run Into People Like That. Consumate Complainers, And Everything Out Of Their Mouth Is Negative. When You Are Trying To Appease A Customer This Is Very Difficult. And No Matter What You Say, They Will Constantly Call You Liars, And Scam Artists." Lamont here sustains that I am nasty, I complain and everything out of my mouth is negative. I sent him 2 types of messages: very polite and nice ones, and flaming ones. When I started my contacts with Lamont, I was always nice and I never received any attention. It was only after my first flaming message that he responded to me directly for the first time. I was always polite to him anytime I replied to his messages. There are quite a few of our messages in my update and you can certainly see the pattern. I learned that the only way to get Lamont to answer your messages is by telling him that you'll uncover his operations. Just to cite 2 examples, look at my messages from last week (it is Feb 1st today) and you'll see. Note as more than one time I beg him to respond to my message without me having to use "threats" to receive an answer. Judge for yourself, see if his statements constitute a close and acceptable description of me through what I wrote, or if he is...lying? "Service Is Not Synonymous With Abject Subjugation." Well well Lamont must have learned this from somebody else, and he must like it a lot, since he's used it twice in this matter in about 2 days! I invite you to look at the facts (unfortunately, you only have my report to go by, because Lamont limited his rebuttal to insulting me -liar, always negative, complainer-). Look at the facts and then decide if what Lamont wrote is appropriate or if it sounds like a joke, when applied to this matter. "But before We Leave Here Is One For The Companies listed On The Ripoff report. We Know You All Can't Be What These People Are Saying You Are. As We Are A Victum Of The Ripoff report Also." Lamont seems to think that people (and companies that are run by people) are infallible. Apple makes great products? There's no way they could do one thing wrong! His logic is: if you are XXXMart, you have so many customers, there is no way you ever screwed anything or anybody! What can I say? You comment for yourself. He also seems to think that since he's in good company here, then he cannot have done what I say. ...You guessed it, judge for yourself. "Even Though We Did The Right Thing by Refunding Customers." I am not going to comment on another pending report that somebody else has filed here against him, I am honest and correct, so I'll simply talk about mine: his refund was for less than what I paid. It is a fact, I have 2 receipts that contain different numbers and the one of the refund is lower than the one of the payment. So, he gave me a partial refund. I also believe -I am not sure however- that he should have refunded the interest accrued on that sum and he didn't do that either. Regarding the "doing the right thing" I believe -opinion here- that the right thing is to satisfy the customer. I asked for the product, I never asked for a refund, he decided to unilaterally send me some of my money back. His statements don't quite add up: first he says that he sent a refund because I was a bad customer, then he said he did the right thing by refunding me. LAMONT, YOU GAVE ME A PARTIAL REFUND... In Addition I've Checked This Website Out And Every Company We Know Of Is Listed Here. Including Wal-Mart, Carlton Sheets, The Hilton Hotels, etc. Just Take A Look People. C'mon, It Can't All be True! This Will be Our Last rebuttal For The Ripoff Report. We Will Never Return To This Site Again, And We Advise Any Company To Do The Same. This is along the line of what I said before. As far as the intelligence of this comment goes, you be the judge. "We Have Nothing More To Say Here Except, We Will Continue In Business Just Like We Have For 21 Years. Just Watch!" And this means what? I think Saddam was in business for over 20 years, but I think most of his customers were pretty dissatisfied with his way of running the business... Most car companies that sell cars in North America have been in business for way more than 20 years and they still sell lemons, it is a proven fact. Is Lamont suggesting that there are no lemons, just bad drivers? Does he want to revolutionize the way the world deals with problematic cars? I want to conclude this rebuttal with a few question and with the invitation to Lamont to stay with the questions and answer them straight, without offending me or anyone else. 1) Would you explain what happened each of the times (except for the last one) you said you shipped and I did not received anything? 2) Would you explain exactly what happened the last time you said you were going to ship? 3) Would you explain why you gave me a tracking number that cannot be used to track things? 4) Would you explain why you sent me a refund since I never asked for one? 5) Would you explain why you sent me a partial refund instead of a complete one? 6) Would you explain why you only initiated a thread of communications after "flaming" messages and ignored all the nice ones that asked for information? 7) Would you explain why you called me a liar without even remotly attempting to back up what you said? 8) Would you explain why you write every word with a captial initial and use hardly any punctuation? 9) Would you commit to sending me the difference (what you still owe me)? 10) Would you explain to me why you feel that I was out of line, given the circumstances (what would you have done if you were me and I were you)? 11) Would you explain what you would have done if I wouldn't have "flamed" you and would have stuck with nice messages that you regularly ignored? And lastly again I hope the editor will not post rebuttals like "he's this and he's that" and allow only factual statements, or at least statements that have some explanation.

This is A Case Of Sour Grapes. I Will Say One Thing And One Thing Only because The Rip Off Report Puts Up Any bodys complaint Whether It Is True Or Not. This Person Is An Out And Out Liar. And very Uncooperative. They Have Been re-credited Through Their credit Card Because They kept complaining. We Have Complained To The Post Office With No Avail For Non Delivery. So They Were Given A Refund. In Addition We Don't Handle Credit Cards. In Order For A Customer To Purchase Any Of Our Products They Must Submit it Themselves, With Their Own Credit Cards. This Protects Them And Us From credit Card Fraud So how Is That Possible For Us To Have A Credit Card Fraud. Ridiculous! We Have Nothing More To Do With This Person As They Are Very Nasty. We Noticed being In business As Long As We Have, Every Now And Then You Run Into People Like That. Consumate Complainers, And Everything Out Of Their Mouth Is Negative. When You Are Trying To Appease A Customer This Is Very Difficult. And No Matter What You Say, They Will Constantly Call You Liars, And Scam Artists. Service Is Not Synonymous With Abject Subjugation. But before We Leave Here Is One For The Companies listed On The Ripoff report. We Know You All Can't Be What These People Are Saying You Are. As We Are A Victum Of The Ripoff report Also. Even Though We Did The Right Thing by Refunding Customers. In Addition I've Checked This Website Out And Every Company We Know Of Is Listed Here. Including Wal-Mart, Carlton Sheets, The Hilton Hotels, etc. Just Take A Look People. C'mon, It Can't All be True! This Will be Our Last rebuttal For The Ripoff Report. We Will Never Return To This Site Again, And We Advise Any Company To Do The Same. We Have Nothing More To Say Here Except, We Will Continue In Business Just Like We Have For 21 Years. Just Watch! Lamont Braxton Market Trends

Hello hello. Today I sent Market Trends an email exposing all my sour feelings towards what had happened until now. I also let them know that I had put this report here and that I had also contacted the Better Business Bureau and the publication that carried the ad that I read. I also informed them that I had pretty much copied the report I have put here in both those contacts. I also told them that I felt they were a scam, since they had just told me they would ship tomorrow, they gave me a tracking number and I am not getting anything. Now, just for everyone's information, here are the messages that I exchanged with them in the last few days. Bear with me, as this is peculiar to understand why I am upset and what business/person you deal with when it comes to this company. I'll refrain myself from commenting as much as I can, as I feel it would take away from the facts. The only alterations to the messages are omissions of names and adresses, credit card receipt and the likes. I also have omitted all the automated responses I received any time I sent them a message, as they are irrelevant as you can imagine. I believe I have not omitted any of their messages or mine and I guess you'd realize if I did, since the correspondence would seem somewhat unclear in that case. I am willing to correct any imperfection although I am pretty sure there aren't any. All these emails are original I have no problem providing anyone with the originals. I will start with the one that initiated our second last contact (keep in mind they had just told me around the 8th that between 13th and 18th I would receive the package). On Jan 18 I wrote: "OK. No intention to harass you. I have a copy here of what you responded to me. I guess it says between the 13th and the 18th of the month I would receive my package. Just to let you know, I did not receive anything (just went to check my mailbox 5 minutes ago). Now, maybe there are some mail delays, which I am willing to accept, however, I must know from you if you have shipped, when you shipped and I want to know what means of shipment you have used. I am sorry if I don't trust you, but nothing that you have told me so far has been true; Original shipment days were a lie (in fact, you hadn't shipped until a bit more than a week ago); When you finally responded to me the first time, you said my shipment was going to go out the next day, but it never did (once again, you hadn't shipped until a bit over a week ago); Your last contact (which I have included here) states that I was going to receive my package by today, and I didn't. So, I hope you can communicate with me and answer the questions above, and I hope you can do that by tonight. If I don't receive any answer, by tonight, I'll go ahead with what I told you I was going to do last week. Enough is enough. Giovanni" To this email, I was answered with this one, dated Jan 18: "We Are Sorry, But There Was A Huge Mix Up With Your Orrder. Please Tell Us The Detauils Of Your Order And If You Are Still Interested We Will Make Sure It Is Ship By Some Other Means With Bonuses. But If Not We Will issue You A refund. We Are Honest And Somehow Your Orders Were Mixed Up With Someone Elses. Help Us Correct This Problem. Give Us Your Full Address, The Orders You Placed, What date It Was Placed Through What Company (2CO0, paypal Etc. We Will Communicate With You What We Will Do To resolve. O.K.? Market Trends" To which I responded with this, same day: "Hi, and thank you for the reply. I have attached the original order, the date I received this receipt through email was Nov 21st 2005. I am not going to add my address since it is already included in the receipt I have attached, no part of that information has changed in anyway. I don't believe you need me to re-attach our correspondence, as I imagine you have it anyway, but if you do need it, by all means, let me know, I will forward you all the messages I sent you and all the replies (different from automated) that you sent back to me. If there is anything else you need to know, I am on my computer already, so I'll receive your communications immediately, which means I could respond to your requests in a very timely manner, so maybe we can resolve this quickly. Now, as far as resolving this problem, the last time you responded to me (last week, I believe) you said you were going to ship together with my original order, the "A Free Home Business Information Package. HBC#B50 In Which We Pay You To Mail Our Circulars Weekly.". Now, you were asking me to cooperate and resolve this through email. I am fine with it, I still want the package(s). The problem is, I have been waiting for 2 entire months, the idea of having to wait even until next week, just brings me down (and unless you ship tomorrow with same day or next day delivery, I won't get it until next week). So, I am going to make you 2 proposals, in order of preference, hoping that you'll be able to fulfill at least one of them. 1) My original order was for home based typing business. I am assuming that what I'd receive is simply information. Based on this assumption, I would like to ask you if you could email me that set of documents, so I can get started immediately; as far as the bonus you were going to send with it, I am willing to wait whatever it takes for it to ship (a few days, a week, 6/7 business days, whatever it is convenient to you and constitutes your "standard delivery" for such a package). 2) Send everything today/tomorrow, with either same day/next day delivery guaranteed, so I'll get started over this weekend. I believe that the first proposal should be the most convenient for both of us, since your shipping costs wouldn't be affected, while sending something through email shouldn't be a problem (unless there is no way you have or can make an electronic copy of your material); this would be great for me, since I'd get going quickly. As far as the second proposal, I understand the increased costs for you and -although I'd like to go with that as a second option- I would much rather save you the money and get the original in electronic copy and the rest within your normal means of delivery (first option). Now, if neither of these can be carried out (for whatever reasons), I would be really disappointed, but since I paid for something 2 months ago, at this point I want to get it and I am willing to listen to your "counter offer". One thing I would like you to keep in mind is that, although I really appreciate the bonus you said you are going to send me, I already have a job, which doesn't leave me with insane amounts of time to do other things, so, if you were going to offer me anything else over and above these two packages, I really don't know how I could benefit from it, since I'd have to either stop living and do all these Home Based Business things, or I would simply have to leave it in a corner and not use it. I am eager to start this so that I can benefit from extra cash to spend on "pleasures of life", like hobbies or trips. So, I would much rather go with my first option and be happy that way. Lastly, if my original order is not available any longer, let me know what you have, I'll get back to you immediately and we'll work something out. Like I said, let me know, my email is on and I am in front of the computer. Sincerely, Giovanni PS the original receipt is attached below. (follows the original)" To which they replied with this, the same day (Jan 18) "Thanks For Your Cooperation. We Will Send Your Packages (Both) Tomorrow, Only We Will Send It Via Global Priority Delivery, This Takes Up to 5 Days For Delivery. Unfortunately We Cannot Digitally Send It To You As They Are Physical Tangible Products Market Trends Publishing" To which I responded: "OK. I understand the necessity of physically shipping, no problem about that. I would like to ask you for at least one thing. If you send this, would you be able to get a tracking number and send it to me, so I can analyze and verify its progress over the days? I hope you can at least meet this request of mine. As for the rest, I guess it'll do. Sincerely, Giovanni" To which they responded (same day) "Yes, we will use the postal system Global Priority Delivery # LX919816055US Market Trends Publishing" To which I replied (same day): "Thank you very much. I hope this will resolve all these problems and all the waiting. I hope I am going to be happy with what I will get, as it has been a long wait. Once again, thank you, I'll let you know when this arrives. Sincerely, Giovanni" After trying to track the package (maybe a little too quickly on my behalf, I'll admit), I sent them an email on the 19th: "Hi, I have tried to use this shipping number and it looks like it is either wrong or that you have not shipped yet. Could you please give me some more information? I don't mean to be on your case, but you already know how long it has been and going by what you gave me, this package hasn't been shipped, or you gave me the wrong number. If the number is wrong, could you give me the right one? If not, when is this going to leave your place? Thank you, Giovanni" Which was replied, same day, as follows: "Giovani, You Must Calm Down A Little. The Number We Gave You is Correct. But Give It A few Days, And It Will Show Up In The System. This is What The Postal System tells Us. We Are Both Now At Their Mercy Now Give It A Few Days, Even By Monday And I'm Sure it Will Show Up." I sent this reply shortly after: "OK, I apologize. Thank you for the info. Take care, Giovanni" I kept trying to use the tracking number for several days, without any luck. In the meantime, I wrote to USPS, they said that if there were no information on their site, then there wasn't any available through the phone. On January 26th I "caved in" again and attempted to contact them with this message: "Hi once again, this is Giovanni. I have tried to check on this shipping number for 6 business days and I do not receive any information. Now, you told me you gave me the right number, so I am going to assume that I am checking on the wrong shipping company. Since you didn't tell me which company you were going to ship with, I have checked UPS, FedEx, DHL and first of them all, USPS. None of these companies seem to carry this number, even the format itself is not correct, at least for those I just wrote above. Needless to say, I have not received anything. I would really appreciate it if you could shed some light on this. What is the carrier, exactly? Do I have to call to use your tracking number (and that explains why I am not getting any response on the internet)? I understand that 6 days may not be enough to receive the package, but I also was unable to track this for the entire week and 6 days is already within the time frame for a delivery. I am contacting you today, Thursday, in the hope that I can at least get some information by Friday, before I have to wait until next week (once again!). I just want to remind you that it has been now 67 days since I paid." One day went by, I felt (maybe wrongly so) that given the situation I should have received more attention than your average customer, so I attempted to contact them again, with this message (Jan 27th): "OK. I sent you a message yesterday, asking for some clarification. You, once again, ignored me. Another day went by, another week has gone, next possible delivery will be Monday January the 30th. You have supplied me with a mysterious tracking number, which I wasn't able to use with any of the most common carriers. I asked you for some help yesterday. You decided not to respond. According to what you said to me last week, the shipping would take 5-6 business days. Today marks the seventh day and I don't see anything. I would like to think that after waiting over 2 months, after having to raise my voice to get an answer instead of being ignored, after having patiently been waiting you would be at least a bit more polite and understanding in regards to this matter. You have told me that you have made a mistake. I have not done nothing wrong. All I asked last time we talked, was for you to give me a number I can track the package with. You sent me a number that doesn't work. I don't know if you think I am paranoid, but once again, I smell the fraud. So far, I have heard only stories. Then I got a tracking number that doesn't work. I asked once again for help, I was ignored again. WOULD YOU TELL ME WHAT IS GOING ON WITHOUT ME THREATENING OR WILL YOU REALLY IGNORE UNLESS THREATENED?" Giovanni This attempt to get some feedback went unanswered. I decided to wait until Monday, see what was coming in the mail, then go from there. Here's my mail from Jan 30th: "Hi, this is Giovanni again. I sent you 2 messages last week, without threats and, surprise, surprise, you didn't answer! I checked my mail today and there is nothing in there either. My order receipt shows that I paid Nov 21st. Today it is Jan 30th. This makes it 70 days after payment and no delivery yet. I have asked for a tracking number and the one you gave me did not work. USPS's website shows no record of this package. You said to me in a previous email, give it a couple of days and it'll show. I have now called them and they told me that such delivery system is not trackable, so there is nothing they can tell me in regards to this package; this means you lied to me. January the 18th you said you were going to ship (next day) and you gave me the "ghost" tracking number. This makes today 8 days from your alleged shipment. You told me it was going to take 5-6 business days. I have come to the conclusion that you are a scam. I gave you some 4/6 second chances, but you repeatedly failed to deliver (literally). I am going to put up a website and make sure that everybody knows about the way you deal with customers (oops! i should have said victims). I am also going to contact the publication I saw your ad on and tell the story to them, asking as much as I can, to publish it and uncover your lousy scam. Have a good day, Giovanni" After not receiving anything from them again, I checked my mail yesterday (Jan 31st) and noticed nothing in there from them. I contacted this site, started this report, contacted the Better Business Bureau giving them the same information, contacted the publication I read their ad on and told them again my experience, then I proceeded to attempt to contact Market Trends again. I was pretty irate, so I sent them this message, hoping I would receive some feedback on the entire matter: "Hi, this is Giovanni, again, and again, and again... I see that you lied to me again and now you are ignoring me. I have done a bit of research and it turns out that I am not the first person you have robbed. I was on ripoffreport.com and I found out that another person from Canada has been "taken" by you in a way that sounds very similar to mine. I have to say, you're pretty good. Nice "commercial" page, real address, even a real credit card collection electronic system! I am impressed. I see you have written a rebuttal to his claim, I wonder if you're going to write a rebuttal to mine! I'd really like to see what kind of manipulation you can come up with! I mean, you told me you were shipping the next day at least three times, and I didn't get anything either time! I wonder how you can rebuttal that! I also wonder how you're going to rebuttal the fake tracking number you sent me! Just so you know, I have already written a report at ripoffreport.com and I have also put a complaint in at the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and I have informed the publication I read your ad on of what is going on with you. This is just the beginning. I read that the other Canadian guy is working with somebody to shut your site down. I hope I can get in touch with him somehow, so we can join forces and maybe improve the result. My next steps will be to contact authorities that have "heavier legal weight", so I can really get to the bottom of this. I hope you understand, it is not a matter of 40 dollars. The matter is that you have wasted almost 2.5 months of my time, that I could have used to do something else, without having to use my energy for something like this. What puzzles me is that if you needed to take my 40 bucks (or whatever it is, I don't even remember), why didn't you just stop responding the first time? You could have saved yourself all the emails I sent between now and then. I really liked the "we've been in business for xx years, we're not going to be intimidated by anyone!" Well, if you've been running this successfully all these years, in spite of the fact that you either scam or your service and delivery take just a bit longer than Halley's comet to come around again, what should you be afraid of? I guess nothing, you're right. And what about "god bless" and all that stuff? don't you even feel bad about it? I am really disgusted. Well, I guess you'll have a few people contacting you shortly, so I hope your long time running business won't be running so brilliantly anymore soon... Regards, Giovanni" I went out, when I came back I found this message from them: "While We Do Apologize For The Delay, We resent Threats. Question, If You Are Disatisfied With Our Company We Will Issue A Prompt Refund. No need For Threats, Just A Prompt Refund. Agree? Market Trends Publishing" To which this one followed without any interjection on my behalf (I was out while these messages were pouring in): "Also, We Are Not A Scam. We Do Sell The Product You ordered but They Go Fast. Again We Are Sorry. Keep In Mind Service Is Not Synonymous With Abject Subjugation." I cannot resist to comment on this last one. I kept everything to the facts, but this deserves a response: "Keep In Mind Service Is Not Synonymous With Abject Subjugation" This statement comes from somebody that has cashed my money on November 21 and has promised me something at least 3-4 times over the last 70 days!!! Back on the report: a third message had followed the last one I put up while I was responding to the two that preceed this paragraph. Here's what they wrote and right after there is my reply, which was sent right after this message was received: "YOU HAVE BEEN REFUNDED AND YOUR E-MAILED BLOCKED. OH, BEFORE WE GO... CHECK US OUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW, EVEN 5 YEARS WE WILL STILL BE IN BUSINESS. THAT WILL BE THE DAY WHEN WE ALLOW TWO REFUINDED CUSTOMERS TO PUT US OUT OF BUSINESS JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. ALSO BE WARNED, IF WE RECEIVE ANY THREATS FROM ANY AGENCY PERTAINING TO YOUR THREAT OUR LAWYERS WILL SUE!!! Market Trends" "OK. Let me see if I get this straight. I was told by you that you were going to ship next day (or within 3/4 days) at least 3 times (if you count the advertisement you have, it makes it 4). If the product was sold out (the first time), why didn't you tell me (and propose some alternative)? If the product was sold out (the second time), why didn't you tell me then (and propose some alternative)? If the product was sold out (the third time), why didn't you tell me (and propose an alternative)? Now, this is what I need to understand: will you agree (and if you don't doesn't matter, since I have all your emails over here that prove that) that you told me on January the 18 that you were going to ship next day and you gave me a USPS tracking number? Will you also agree (and once again it really doesn't matter, because I have your emails to prove it), that after I contacted you asking for clarification on the tracking number (it wasn't showing up anywhere) you told me to give it a couple of days and it would be there? Now, you either shipped the package like you said (with that tracking number or another), or you didn't. If you shipped, then how can you offer me a refund? I am about to get the stuff you sent, right? If you did not ship, then you were lying to me and you scammed me when you said that it was coming and that was the tracking number, right? Now you are asking if I want a refund. I DON'T WANT A REFUND! I WANT WHAT I PAID FOR!!!! I WASTED 2 MONTHS WITH YOU AND IN THE MEANTIME I COULD HAVE GOT SOMETHING ELSE STARTED! WHAT IS GOING TO COMPENSATE ME FOR THAT? AND WHAT ABOUT ALL THE TIME I SPENT TRYING TO CONTACT YOU OR RESPONDING TO YOU? AND HOW IS A REFUND GOING TO PUNISH YOU FOR YOUR LIES? Now, about the "threats". I did not threaten you. I did what I told you I have done and I am going to do what I said I was going to do. These are not threats; this is what my course of action has been so far and what it will be in the next little while. I don't see how exposing my experience (I simply reported facts, you can see that by logging in to that site) is a threat. If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. I wrote the same thing to all the three places I mentioned to you. It is a simple account of the facts. Now, I have something to offer you, it is all I can do (and I am really asking myself why, but I guess there is a lot more good and God in me than there is in you). If you send me what you said you were sending me one week ago tomorrow, with either same day or next day delivery (use whichever carrier you prefer), I will re-contact the three agencies (I contacted) upon receipt of your package (given that it does contain what you told me it is going to contain). I will add a post to the one that is published to clear your "name" and I'll make sure that the BBB knows we resolved our problems. If you cannot do what I asked above, then I will pursue this matter to the best extent I can. I hope you understand once again that this is not a threat, I am simply going to expose my experience (with all the proof you have provided through email) to the authorities and the Internet authorities and they will judge themselves, which means, again, that if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. For the last time, here's what I want: a) You ship tomorrow with same day/next day delivery, you provide me with a tracking number (make sure it works). I will go back and update my complaints so you look good again, since if you satisfy your obligations I have nothing to complain about; b) You don't ship tomorrow, or you don't ship with same day/next day delivery or you don't give me a tracking number or you don't send what I was supposed to get. I will continue to pursue this matter. If you are honest, you are not a scam, you are a good person and something strange has happened, you'll choose a). In that case, I'll make sure everybody knows. If you are not honest, you are a scam, you are not a good person and you are just taking advantage of the situation (and of other people), then you'll choose b) or you'll make up excuses. Note: if you don't have what I asked, see what you can come up with (as an offer), let me know in the next few minutes, I'll evaluate it and I'll get back to you right away. regards, Giovanni PS make sure you answer all those questions, because I need to understand how you can be honest and do those things at the same time (and the explanation better be good)" I then received this message from them: "Giovanni, Firstly, Whether You believe Or Not That We Are Real, Doesn't Matter. We Have Refunded Your Money, And This Case Is Closed. If There Are hundreds Of Complaints About A Company I Can See your Pursuit, But only Two Is Suspect, Especially Since You Have Your REFUND. Internet Online Fraud Division Is For People Who Are Committing CRIMES. We Are Selling Information, NOT COMMITTING CRIMES. We Have Refunded Your Money Through 2CO, And Your Business With Us Is Finished. Maybe We Didn't Handle Things As Swiftly As We Should Have, And That Is Why We Opted To REFUND THE CUSTOMER (YOU). Occasionally, This May Happen. It's not Planned, Sometimes It's The Delivery Of The Post Office. We Have Had A Hand Full Of People Over The Past Year That Swear That We Haven't Mailed A Package And We Know That We Have. So Instead Of Investing More Money In A losing Situation, We Refund The Money. Make Sure If You Pursue Your Complaints With These Agencies That You Allow Them To Read This E-mail. You Must Also Ask Yourself A Question, Out Of The 181,733 visitors To our Website Over The Years Why Is there Such A Small Amount Of Complaints? Simply Because We SEND OUT OUR MATERIALS TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND DISTRIBUTORS. To Do Otherwise Would Be Counter Productive, And Trust Us We Would Surely Be Out Of Business By Now. We Are Not. We Have Made Copies Of The Refund We Issued Through 2CO As Proof That Our Transaction Ended With The Refund. While We Do Apologize For Your Trouble, The Best We Can Do Right Now Is Refund Your Fee. And It Has Been Refunded. We Would Like To Make A Suggestion To You, And By The Way We Do Not Have Anything To Worry About, As We Know Who We Are. But Our Suggestion Is This, Try Finding Companies Online That Have bilked Many, Many People, Perhaps Hundreds And Have Them Investigated. Surely you'll Find They Should Not operate A Business. Many Of Them Never Refund Any Customer. And I Agree, They Do Make It Worse For Legitmate Companies Like Ours. But I being The Owner Of The Company Am A Known Adfvocate For That Which Is Right And I Will Fight until The End Even If It Requires Counter Lawsuits, I Am Capable Of Making This Happen. We Have Your Address And We Have All Of The Information We Would Need To Put Through A Counter Lawsuit. And While We Do Not Want To Do This, If Our Hand Is Forced You Will Surely See That We Are Very Seriouys About Our Business. THIS IS NOT A THREAT, BUT A FACT. We Are In Business To Sell information (Self -Publishing Business) And We Intend To Stay. But I Will End It This Way. We Extend Our Deepest Apologies To You For Any Problems That You May Have Experienced. Thorugh The Post Office Or By Our Slow Delivery. But We Have Made Our Choice In Resolve. A REFUND BACK TO THE CREDIT CARD YOU USED TO PLACE THE ORDER. We Wish You Much Success In Your Future Endeavors." To which I replied with this: "OK, you see, you make some good points, but you fail to explain to me the most important things. First of all, I will put this email with everything I am including in my update of the ripoff site report, to demonstrate to you that I am in good faith. ----On 31-Jan-06, at 9:16 PM, Market Trends wrote: Giovanni, Firstly, Whether You believe Or Not That We Are Real, Doesn't Matter. We Have Refunded Your Money, And This Case Is Closed. If There Are hundreds Of Complaints About A Company I Can See your Pursuit, But only Two Is Suspect, Especially Since You Have Your REFUND.--- I don't think the problem is that I don't believe you are real. I believe the problem is whether or not you deliver what you advertise. And in my case, this has not happened. Regarding the refund, I had already received the communication through 2CO, so I do believe that it has been issued and I am sure that it will eventually come through. Two things about that: 1) I never asked for a refund. Why did you give me one? I repeatedly (even in my last email) asked you to deliver what you promised. You decided to refund me of my payment and unilaterally truncated this transaction/relationship, simply because I was complaining about your failure to deliver what promised. If your refund would have come in mid December, right after the first time we managed to make contact with each other, either because you would tell me that you were somehow incapacitated to deliver what I purchased or because I had said to you "enough, I want my money back", then I really don't see why I would have been upset and I really don't see why I could have felt that someone had done wrong to me. But what you have done -repeatedly, mind you- was to lie to me. Would you admit to this? I have proof here that you told me you would ship in a day. I have proof that you told me it's leaving tomorrow, here's the tracking number. But in any of those instances, you did not ship. Those are lies, unless, that is, you have actually done what you said. 2) I paid 45.77 Canadian. Your refund equals to 42.15 CDN approximately, so you didn't quite refund me, I am short 3.62 CDN. Now, what's 3.62 dollars? Hardly anything, but if I have waited 2 months, being served lies for that time and now I am short the interest on my money, plus 3.62 of my money, then I think you would agree with me that this doesn't quite cut it; if I look at it from your point of view, you held my money for 70 days, then did not even give me all my money back. You felt you couldn't even be bigger than 3.62 CDN, which is probably a bit over 2 US. Which gives me a strange idea that I won't discuss since it would be a speculation and I have been pretty stuck to facts so far. Let me give you an example to explain why I don't think that refunding me does justice. I purchased something from you. This something was to be of my use, so that I could benefit from using it (eg, make extra cash). I was unable for 70 days to make the extra cash and I lost the interest on the money I paid for what I did not receive, for then being refunded 3.62 CDN short. It is like saying this: I get a job, I need to buy a car to get to work, because I cannot do it in any other way. I pay for the car upfront, with the guarantee that the car is functional and will allow me to go to work. Unfortunately, the car doesn't work from the get go. I ask the dealer that sold me the car to fix it, or exchange it with one that works; the dealer agrees to do so; tells me he's doing that; 70 days go by and I have never used the car, the dealer has never fixed it (but said he was fixing it) then never replaced it (but said he was going to replace it). I press the dealer into fixing or changing the car, the dealer suddenly terminates communication and gives me my money back, minus 7% of what I gave him and tells me that we're even, no harm done. Meanwhile, I lost the opportunity of making money with my job for 70 days, I lost time going to the dealer, arguing with the dealer, and I lost 7% of what I gave the dealer when he refunded me and, ultimately, I don't have that job. And what faults (if any) do I have? Now, if this seems right to you, then I guess we live on two different planets. ---Internet Online Fraud Division Is For People Who Are Committing CRIMES. We Are Selling Information, NOT COMMITTING CRIMES. We Have Refunded Your Money Through 2CO, And Your Business With Us Is Finished. Maybe We Didn't Handle Things As Swiftly As We Should Have, And That Is Why We Opted To REFUND THE CUSTOMER (YOU). Occasionally, This May Happen. It's not Planned, Sometimes It's The Delivery Of The Post Office. We Have Had A Hand Full Of People Over The Past Year That Swear That We Haven't Mailed A Package And We Know That We Have. So Instead Of Investing More Money In A losing Situation, We Refund The Money. Make Sure If You Pursue Your Complaints With These Agencies That You Allow Them To Read This E-mail.--- Let me get this straight. I paid, you advertise that it will ship in 3/4 days, no package gets delivered. We finally make contact, you say you're shipping. Nothing gets delivered. I get upset and you tell me that there was a mixup and you'll be sending me what I asked and more, but nothing gets delivered. You also give me a tracking number, but no package. I think I missed another promised delivery, but in any case, let's stick with 3/4 deliveries. Are you telling me that every time you shipped and USPS did not deliver what you sent? Let me get this other thing straight: If you send something to a customer and the customer doesn't receive it you refund the customer's money instead of re-shipping, tracking the package and what not? I may be speculating here, but I gave you 45 bucks or so. If this is a business for you, what you were going to send me costs you less than 45 bucks or you wouldn't make money (and this is without considering that you might be making money on future cooperation with the customer). So, something gets lost in the mail, you lose the package (I don't know, 10 bucks worth? 15?) plus the shipping, plus you refund the money (45 dollars), which puts you out some 70 bucks, instead of spending another 20/25, break even on that transaction and preserve a customer (which in turn will make you make money from there on)? But, ultimately, why didn't you send me the package? ---You Must Also Ask Yourself A Question, Out Of The 181,733 visitors To our Website Over The Years Why Is there Such A Small Amount Of Complaints? Simply Because We SEND OUT OUR MATERIALS TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND DISTRIBUTORS. To Do Otherwise Would Be Counter Productive, And Trust Us We Would Surely Be Out Of Business By Now. We Are Not.--- OK. I don't know any of this. I can believe what you're saying (and why would I, after my experience?) or I could simply say that unless you prove all this, I am not going to believe that this is true, so this objection is meaningless. But if I do believe it, why didn't you send me what I purchased? Why didn't you accept to do what I asked in my last email (ship next day delivery)? Wouldn't this be the best proof that you mean no harm, it was an accident and we'll all live happily ever after? I mean how would this be a big deal? I bet you any money, if you were to ship next day delivery and ask me to give you 1/2 of the delivery money back once I receive the package, I probably would say yes! Once again, I don't see why this solution cannot be taken. One side question is this (and you did not answer to this either in this message): why did you give me a tracking number if you didn't ship? Or are you arguing that you shipped and USPS has lost the package? Would you not in this case at least ask me to wait another 2 days, offer me some sort of a guarantee? I mean, what if I get the package tomorrow? Now you have "refunded" the money to me... This just doesn't make any sense. ---We Have Made Copies Of The Refund We Issued Through 2CO As Proof That Our Transaction Ended With The Refund. While We Do Apologize For Your Trouble, The Best We Can Do Right Now Is Refund Your Fee. And It Has Been Refunded. We Would Like To Make A Suggestion To You, And By The Way We Do Not Have Anything To Worry About, As We Know Who We Are. But Our Suggestion Is This, Try Finding Companies Online That Have bilked Many, Many People, Perhaps Hundreds And Have Them Investigated. Surely you'll Find They Should Not operate A Business. Many Of Them Never Refund Any Customer. And I Agree, They Do Make It Worse For Legitmate Companies Like Ours. But I being The Owner Of The Company Am A Known Adfvocate For That Which Is Right And I Will Fight until The End Even If It Requires Counter Lawsuits, I Am Capable Of Making This Happen. We Have Your Address And We Have All Of The Information We Would Need To Put Through A Counter Lawsuit. And While We Do Not Want To Do This, If Our Hand Is Forced You Will Surely See That We Are Very Seriouys About Our Business. THIS IS NOT A THREAT, BUT A FACT. We Are In Business To Sell information (Self -Publishing Business) And We Intend To Stay.--- Ha! I will comment on this from the end back to the beginning. You would counter sue me? I am sure you are capable of doing that, since anybody can! And for what exactly? Paying you money, being told several times over 70 days that what I ordered is coming (with tracking number included) and not receiving anything? Or for being refunded 7% or so less than what I paid for something I never received? I have told you what I was going to do. I said, I am going to make this experience public. You can go on the site I gave you and read, and rebuttal, if there is anything in there that is incorrect (I am putting in an update which will include our last emails). You think you can sue me for telling my experience EXACTLY HOW IT HAPPENED? You will (at least according to what they say) be contacted by the BBB. They will tell you what I asked: delivery of merchandise as promised. I didn't say I wanted a refund, I didn't say I wanted to "complain about you". I asked to get what I paid for. This just to tell you that I am not speculating, not twisting, not threatening, but simply letting my story out in the open. If you are an advocate for what is right, here's what you do: ship tomorrow, next day delivery, you apologize for the time you took to do your part of this transaction and you ask me to repay. Since you were sending me the mailing business package as well (which depends on your business) you could have paid me less the first time in case I hadn't sent you the money back. If you were an advocate for what is right, then you'd refund the total, not 93% or so of it; actually, you'd calculate the interest and put that in as well. Because that would be the right thing to do (and the legal one as well). If you were an advocate for what is right, then you wouldn't cut me off and send me a refund, while being even pissed off at me??!!! You sound like the fruit seller in Seinfeld: "You're banned!" at least he had a reason to do that, but you... BTW, I do have the partial refund receipt, don't worry about that, I see you sent me 3 emails with the copy of the receipt. Once again, I don't care about the money, I wanted the business(es) you promised (and still do). ---But I Will End It This Way. We Extend Our Deepest Apologies To You For Any Problems That You May Have Experienced. Thorugh The Post Office Or By Our Slow Delivery. But We Have Made Our Choice In Resolve. A REFUND BACK TO THE CREDIT CARD YOU USED TO PLACE THE ORDER. We Wish You Much Success In Your Future Endeavors.--- I thought you were an advocate for what is right. But unilaterally close this with a unilateral decision? Then you say sorry for leaving you hanging for 70 days, here's some of your money back. That really sounds right. And after you hit me with the post office thing? Does that mean that I might be getting a package and I'll have to send it back? I really don't understand you. I'll ask you one more time: could you deliver next day and prove to me with facts that you are about what's right, you are indeed a great business man with a great business? I'll agree to paying the shipping back deducted from my first cheque (given that we agree on the amount prior to shipping). Thank you for wishing me success, i was trying to achieve some of it through your offer (and I guess pass some of that back to you), but it looks like you "don't want it". Regarding any further legal matters, I think you should perfectly know what the situation is. So, if you know that this entire event brings no further responsibility to you than giving me back most of my money, you know this is what I will find out when I inquire, so you don't have to worry about anything, If however that is not the case, then your position changes. You could certainly countersue for... let's see... not being willing to wait another 70 days? Not being satisfied with getting less than what I paid back? Or maybe you're going to bring exchange rate into this? Anyway, this has become an entire mess, thanks to you. I wanted to get my package. You didn't send it. You finally unilaterally cut me off and gave me most of my money back, then told me I had no right to complain about how I was treated by your company. That is all there is to it. I don't know what else to say. I wish you could do/have done your part, so I'd be happy and so would be you. regards, Giovanni PS Is there a reason why every word of your responses bears a capital letter at its beginning? It is a pain to read... PPS Will I get the other 3.62 dollars you still owe me? or will you change your mind and actually accept one of my very fair and reasonable proposals? While elaborating this response, I also received a message titled: PROOF!! Which showed me a receipt of the refund transaction they mention in the last (or last two) messages. To conclude this very long update to my original report, I will say that I have not received a response to my last message I posted above. I will add that I sent it around 10:42 PM and I can understand it was too late to receive an answer to that one. I also believe that I am very likely to not receive one, since this company feels that everything was settled appropriately. What I am going to do is that I am going to weigh my options in regards to how further pursue this matter so that I can be offered an appropriate compensation (I don't even want money, I'd be satisfied with him admitting to all the wrong things he's done (maliciously or non voluntarily, matters very little to me). I bet none of my last requests will be satisfied and I hope I am completely wrong on this last statement.