Complaint Review: MSG LIMITED (Mark A Schutte) - Springfield Ohio

 Those are great questions, if I had a nickel for every time someone had asked them I could buy & sell Donald Trump!! The answer is that unless your gun is PHYSICALLY stolen from you (taken from your car or house, etc.) it is not considered theft under U.S. law. Because I voluntarily sent my gun to an FFL, even if I later request it back I have to go to civil court to get it because the police and FBI and BATFE do not consider that theft. As long as the FFL properly logs the firearm into his records he has not violated any BATFE regulations, and they will not get involved or help in any way---they will tell you to take him to court (same with the police and any other Law Enforcement agency).

Many years ago a friend of mine sold his car to someone. The price was $2,000 and he took a $500 cash downpayment and accepted a note for the balance from them as they would not have the rest of the money for a week or so. He got their Drivers License info and they signed the note in front of a witness, but very stupidly he released the Pink Slip to them before they paid the balance. They disappeared from town and when he went to the police to file a report for theft of his car, they refused to take one or in fact do anything! They said that since his car was not physically taken from him but instead he voluntarily gave it up, it was a civil matter and he had to take this person to court! He and I were shocked but when we spoke to an attorney he verified that was the way the law worked, it cannot be "theft" if you give/sell something of yours to a person and they later refuse to pay for it and/or return it. Amazingly firearms are included in this definition of theft, and so that is why Law Enforcement and all these other agencies will not do anything at all despite the blatantly obvious criminal actions performed by Mark.

The bottom line is that Mark is aware of this, and so ALL of his victims have been people from out of state who live 1,000 - 2,000 miles away and have no recourse but to hire an attorney and take him to local municipal court. I am the first and only one to spend the time & money to actually do it, he totally counts on his victims just giving up because its not worth it given the amount they lost. He made a huge mistake with me, and I will not let this go until he has been held accountable even if it takes 10+ years before the Bench Warrant for his arrest is enforced!!

What I don't understand,, if you're there and you've demanded all your property back, why isn't that considered theft at ground zero, even grand larceny espcially under your $ amount? Why doesn't the local police or the ATF think that's enough to file charges? Evidently he hasn't or refuses to show them or you his inventory. 

Who'se side are they on, the gun grabbers?? It's insanity.

Please let me know how this turns out with the cross examination.  I'd like to learn more about how people have to jump through hoops of fire to get others to notice wrong doing.

Best,

J

 I and several others contacted the State Attorney General's Office about Mark, as well as the Department of Consumer Affairs, BATFE and several other agencies---none of them would help. I finally got my shotgun back when BATFE (the Columbus field office) got so many complaints about Mark they sent someone out to investigate him. I spoke with the Agent on the phone, he told me "Mark should not be in business, but I do not have the authority to shut him down". BATFE only gets involved if someone is illegally producing fully automatic weapons or if your firearm is physically stolen, if an unscrupulous FFL like Mark will not give it back you have to take him to civil court like I did. The agent "suggested" to Mark that he return everyone's guns but could not force him, and in fact I had to pay the shipping (for a second time) to get it. Because my judgement is registered with the court I am guaranteed to be a top ranking creditor when Mark finally does go down, I am patient and can wait! The better part is that we are serving him again for what is called the Debtor's Examination (where my attorney cross examines him under oath about his assets), and if he once again does not show up the judge will issue a bench warrant for his arrest. That does not ever go away, he could be randomly pulled over 10 years from now (or be renewing his drivers license for example) and he will be arrested and arraigned before a judge for failure to appear in court. THAT will be well worth the wait, seeing him in jail is worth much more to me than the money he owes all of us!! Like you said he is so delusional he probably thinks he can keep this "house of cards" going forever, but the day of reckoning is coming soon!

This is the line he fed me, that wasn't to imply or give the illusion that he was telling the truth.  After he told me the cell towers were down in Mexico, the reason he couldn't email or return my calls.. It was one line then the next.  Give him elbow room and he'll stay there all day.  That being said, you're likely dealing with an unstable character. In other words, he could be so far under water and still actually believe the con game will continue on indifinetly.

The only way you're going to recover is as you say the powers that be will need to act - shut him down and force him to sell off his assets to cover all the peeps taken.

That's an inevitability, the question is when and how patient you can be while it melts down.

You should also file a report with the Springfield State Attorneys Office if you haven't done so and the Investigative unit from that areas ATF which I believe is in Columbus.  We're talking about FA's and what he advertises or claims to do requires a license.  I'm willing to bet they would be interested in a case like this. 

You'll be getting some emails I promise and his daily operations will become should we say more difficult.

 Do you have any independent evidence that Mark is on the verge of bankruptcy, or just his word?? I ask because he has told me and scores of other people so many lies & falsehoods that it would fill a 6,000 page book, I will provide just one example here. He claimed he did not show up in court because he was never served, I won the judgement last year and he also claimed just last month that he had no idea a court judgement was registered against him. I know for an absolute fact both of those statements are bold faced lies, and here is why.

The process server that served him swore to the court he was served (they lose their job and go to jail if they lie), and the judgement I won showed the day AND exact time that Mark was served papers! He was sent a copy of the judgement by registered mail and signed for it, but he now claims he had no idea any of this had happened?!?! C'mon, that is total baloney and I have the paperwork to prove it! So, be very very wary of believing ANYTHING he told you about his supposed lack of cash and assets, do you have any proof of his claims from any independent sources?

If not, I would not believe a word. As long as he has any assets that are worth $8,000 or more (second car, shop tools, personal property, real estate, bonds, etc.) we can seize them and sell them to satisfy the judgement, so I am not stopping until I have exhausted every possible option as I will hold this criminal accountable for his actions! Sorry to hear of your loss, but please do not believe ANY of Mark's claims & stories unless you can substantiate them somewhere else!!

Thanks, kept kicking myself that I didn't come here first, won't make that mistake again! was waiting quite some time to get some feedback.. sorry to hear your predicament and also that you still have to recover the judgement,, must have had some sleepless nights to say the least. 

Short of sending a full docket to the investigative unit of the ATF which was next, I ended up having to file a report with the Springfield state attorneys office: recovered the piece after all the stories, disappearing accounts and unanswered everything, just an overall horrible experience.  I was forced to make arrangements to recover my service fee from my bank and paypal rather than Mark providing something he doesn't have and had to up-front the return shipping, etc.  Less than Zero, a negative balance sheet at MSG Limited.

Mark said his attorney asked him to file bankruptcy, but he has decided to snake Peter to pay Paul and continue to finance the same Ponzi scheme that was already in full swing.  So the new customers will experience the same thing you have, but these poor people don't know that yet.. lol

Absolutely no doubt there are going to be all sorts of leans placed against his sinking ship, but I sincerely hope you can recover your end and receive satisfaction. 

Best!

J

 Like you I was ripped off by Mark Schutte, and I hired a local attorney who took him to court. I won a $7,700 judgement against him (as he did not show up in court) and am now working on collecting it. If you never got your money back from him, contact Jacob Jeffries of Daniel and Jeffries LLC in New Carlisle, Ohio. They are located just a few miles from Mark and will sue him at a reasonable cost and get you a judgement like they got for me! I don't think I can list their E-mail or phone number here as it will be redacted, but just do a goggle search on "Daniel and Jeffries, Attorneys at Law" in New Carlisle, OH and you will find their contact info.

Update to last report: Sprinfield Police said he does not answer.. how would have thought that? They are unable to file a report unless you file civil charges officially which I am unable to do from South Florida.  I would think the Police would be interested with all the reports here and some of you likely have already filed locally in Springfield to recover your items and/or shut this place down.. no rhyme or reason not to send a car out to check out these stories.. who is protecting this Thing?

It is likely as has been indicated by other victims that Mark A Schutte may be building illegal untraceable guns from our stolen stash and selling underground or on the street at huge profits.. the reason he went to Cancun when he had all these orders to fill, never planned to fill them.  I would think the Authorities and even the FBI would be interested in a case like this.

I'm going to send a complete history of my dealings straight to the Investigative Unit in Springfield next week if I do not here back from the Officer that said he would continue to check out my story.

Anything you guys can add would be helpful.. sorry that you were all taken since some of you lost way more than I have.

An Officer is attempting to phone Mr. Schutte to question him.

I offered him a "Good Luck"