- Report: #150154
Complaint Review: St. Joseph's Hospital And Medical Center - Phoenix Arizona
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St. Joseph's Hospital And Medical Center
350 West Thomas Road Phoenix, 85013 Arizona, U.S.A.
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St. Joseph's Hospital And Medical Center lies and says we owe them $36,000!!! Phoenix Arizona
In the fall of 2001 a family member was diagnosed with a problem that required surgery. As it was not an emergency, we had several months to prepare. We checked with several hospitals in the area but the doctor was pretty adamant that we use St. Joe's.
About the same time our health insurance carrier found a pretext to cancel our coverage. This meant we would have to pay out of our own pocket.
The admissions office at St. Joe's told us that the normal cost for the procedure we needed was around $15,000. But they also said that they would do it for $12,000 if we paid at the time of admission. I assumed that this discount was offered because they would not have to wait months for payment as they do for insured patients. We found this acceptable and scheduled the surgery for about 6 weeks later.
On the morning of the surgery we went to the admissions office and I wrote St. Joe's a check for $12,000. They gave me a receipt for the payment and then performed the surgery.
During the following few days of the recovery period I noticed that we had a private room. We had not requested one but I assumed this was normal.
Recovery was normal and discharge was five days after surgery, which is normal for the type of operation performed.
About a month later we received a bill from St. Joe's stating that we owed them another $36,000! We called their billing department and they said that our $12,000 was just a down payment and that the total charges were $48,000. Remember the private room that St. Joe's gave us on their own initiative and without consulting us? They billed us extra for that.
We never agreed to pay $48,000. We did sign their standard agreement that we are to pay the normal charge for services, but no specific amount was stated. St. Joe's personnel represented to us that $15,000 was the normal charge and we relied on that representation. Obviously, it was false.
St. Joe's never consulted us regarding decisions effecting the bill. For example, they and they alone made the decision to put us in a private room without informing us that there would be a significant extra charge for doing so.
Every time St. Joe's had an opportunity to let us know what the actual charges were they remained silent. They had six weeks beforehand to inform us as to the actual charges and they chose not to do so. They told us $12,000 and accepted that as payment before doing the surgery. The receipt that I was given on the morning I wrote the check says nothing about any additional balances due. The clerk in the admissions office never made any verbal representations that any other amount was due other than $12,000. Our first clue that the actual price was four times what we had been told was when we received that bill a month after discharge.
We have not paid them a cent. St. Joe's turned it over to a collection agency and we told them to piss up a rope. Neither St. Joe's nor the collection agency has filed a lawsuit. The last thing they want to do is submit this scam to the scrutiny of a court of law. They did, however, report the alleged debt to Experian so our credit is screwed. We are now considering going to court and getting a declaratory judgment that we owe them nothing. On the other hand, being denied credit prevents us from acquiring any new debt and if we do nothing the credit report will drop off in a few years.
I did a bit of research after-the-fact and did confirm that $15,000 is about what a hospital gets for the surgery we had performed. But I also found out that most medical providers charge a cash customer 3 to 4 times what they accept from an insurance company for the same service. So if you pay cash you get ripped off.
Larry
Tucson, Arizona
U.S.A.
About the same time our health insurance carrier found a pretext to cancel our coverage. This meant we would have to pay out of our own pocket.
The admissions office at St. Joe's told us that the normal cost for the procedure we needed was around $15,000. But they also said that they would do it for $12,000 if we paid at the time of admission. I assumed that this discount was offered because they would not have to wait months for payment as they do for insured patients. We found this acceptable and scheduled the surgery for about 6 weeks later.
On the morning of the surgery we went to the admissions office and I wrote St. Joe's a check for $12,000. They gave me a receipt for the payment and then performed the surgery.
During the following few days of the recovery period I noticed that we had a private room. We had not requested one but I assumed this was normal.
Recovery was normal and discharge was five days after surgery, which is normal for the type of operation performed.
About a month later we received a bill from St. Joe's stating that we owed them another $36,000! We called their billing department and they said that our $12,000 was just a down payment and that the total charges were $48,000. Remember the private room that St. Joe's gave us on their own initiative and without consulting us? They billed us extra for that.
We never agreed to pay $48,000. We did sign their standard agreement that we are to pay the normal charge for services, but no specific amount was stated. St. Joe's personnel represented to us that $15,000 was the normal charge and we relied on that representation. Obviously, it was false.
St. Joe's never consulted us regarding decisions effecting the bill. For example, they and they alone made the decision to put us in a private room without informing us that there would be a significant extra charge for doing so.
Every time St. Joe's had an opportunity to let us know what the actual charges were they remained silent. They had six weeks beforehand to inform us as to the actual charges and they chose not to do so. They told us $12,000 and accepted that as payment before doing the surgery. The receipt that I was given on the morning I wrote the check says nothing about any additional balances due. The clerk in the admissions office never made any verbal representations that any other amount was due other than $12,000. Our first clue that the actual price was four times what we had been told was when we received that bill a month after discharge.
We have not paid them a cent. St. Joe's turned it over to a collection agency and we told them to piss up a rope. Neither St. Joe's nor the collection agency has filed a lawsuit. The last thing they want to do is submit this scam to the scrutiny of a court of law. They did, however, report the alleged debt to Experian so our credit is screwed. We are now considering going to court and getting a declaratory judgment that we owe them nothing. On the other hand, being denied credit prevents us from acquiring any new debt and if we do nothing the credit report will drop off in a few years.
I did a bit of research after-the-fact and did confirm that $15,000 is about what a hospital gets for the surgery we had performed. But I also found out that most medical providers charge a cash customer 3 to 4 times what they accept from an insurance company for the same service. So if you pay cash you get ripped off.
Larry
Tucson, Arizona
U.S.A.
1 Updates & Rebuttals
Larry
West Sacramento,California,
U.S.A.
Notice of Class-Action Settlement
#2Author of original report
Sun, November 26, 2006
On November 15, 2006, we received a notice from The Superior Court of the State of California, County of San Francisco. This notice told us of a class-action settlement with Catholic Healthcare West, owners of St. Joseph's Hospital in Phoenix, Arizona. Under the terms of the proposed settlement, we would be eligible for a 35% discount from the total bill that the St. Joseph Hospital claims we owe. The case is Adrienne Dancer and Amber T. Howell v. Catholic Healthcare West, Case No. CGC 05 445 624 (part of the Catholic Healthcare West Cases, J.C.C.P. No. 4453). The basic allegation is that Catholic Healthcare West, which operates hospitals in California, Nevada, and Arizona, routinely charged its uninsured patients far more than it charged those who were insured. We filed a request to opt out of the settlement. First, we felt that the facts in our case were substantially different than those before the court. While we were uninsured at the time and St. Joe's billed us for about three times what insured patients pay, we also had entered into a contract for a more reasonable amount and paid that amount in full before entering the hospital. If we did not opt out, we would agree that we owed St. Joseph's sixty-five percent of approximately $46,000, less the $12,000 we paid in 2002. Since we feel that we owe them nothing, we had to opt out to be able to assert our claims. Secondly, even though we now live in California, the claim arose in Maricopa County, Arizona and that should be the proper venue for our dispute with Catholic Healthcare West. Assuming that Catholic Healthcare West billed all of its uninsured patients 300-to-400 percent of what it charged insured patients, the proposed settlement rewards Catholic Healthcare West by granting them a judgment in their favor of as much as 260 percent of normal charge against those who choose to accept the settlement.
