Complaint Review: THE TEAM/TOD - Grand Blanc Michigan

From the research I have done on this endeavor the best I can come up with is at the very most 7% of sales. Most people on the lower level of the sales feild will be lucky to see and income of 2%. This is only after they meet the minimum sales quota of150 points on the system the company uses. This system rewards you greater if you sign other people up, rather than selling actual goods.

Please keep in mind that if you compare this to other marketing groups (Tupperware, Pampered chef, for example) whose average income percentage is somewhere are 15-20% on product alone. They offer incentives to build a group of sellers but their added income from doing so is much lower than from selling products alone.

My advice would be to use some of their info to better yourself but if you want a part itme gig for some extra dough sell tupperware. There is also a steak and beer MLM that men love to be involved with.

Best of luck to everyone!

Well... I must say that reading these reports makes me sad. There is sooo much hate here. I have been involved with TEAM for a little over two years now. The first year I was deployed and didn't do anything with the business. The second year, I got on system and started to learn and grow. Man did I have a lot of broke thinking to get out of my head!!! I still was skeptical and didn't do hardly any of the actual work to build the business, and because of that I got the equal results, not much of anything, except for the TEAM that my upline was building for me as a part of their business. Recently, when the TEAM broke away from Quixtar, a lot of my past beefs that I had got answered. It was in fact Quixtar that was not allowing the TEAM to answer all the questions with all their legal binding crap. Some people love him, some people hate him. His name is Orrin Woodward. In a little over a week he will be rolling out a benchmarking anaylisis on the top 29 companies in the industires and what makes them good or bad. You can bet that Quixtar will be on that list, along with many other well recognized companies. Orrin's idea is to find a business that has lower than Wal-Mart prices. Quixtar's prices were about 3 times Wal-Marts! But yet offers all the products that Wal-Mart does, not just a few products or services like Mona-Vie or YTB, or Mary Kay or any of those other ones. If your interested in this benchmark study of the industry, it will be in St Louis on the 22nd of Feb at the Edward Jones dome. Come check it out! Details on much of what I am talking about here can be found on Orrin's Blog. I think its orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com If you want to understand him better, and see what kind of man he really is, check out that site. You won't find that he is like some of the other Quixtar Leaders that are just all about the money. But, don't take my word for it, check it out for your self! As for the TEAM. The TEAM has transformed to solely a Leadership Development Service Provider. It is now marketed to major corporations for the development of their top executives. One of the books that Orrin and Chris wrote, Launching a Leadership Revolution, made it to #1 on the Wall Street Journals best selling busines list. You can really tell how greedy Orrin and Chris are when it comes to the profits of this book. They are giving 100% of all profits ever made to charity! That is because they understand that passage that says 'the LOVE of money is the route of all evil.' In a short time, (once all the legal mess from Quixtar gets cleared up) TEAM will be happy to share with everyone their profit sharing program, (Quixtar wouldn't allow it before) as it is totally and completely fair. Orrin has wanted for a long time to show everyone exactly where the money goes for the CD's or the Seminars, and now that Quixtar is out of the picture they FINALLY CAN! So as many people have looked at TEAM in the past and thought it was solely a part of Quixtar, or felt like they were trying to walk uphill with a elephant (Quixtar) on their back. I would simply say, take another look at TEAM. Is there work involved, YES, Is it something for nothing, NO, but it is getting Better and BETTER!!

I have one thing to say, if you read every single report on "The Team" you will see that Kevin from Altadena has to respond to every single report with the same exact babble. My thought is, if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, well you know the rest. It is crazy to even try to understand where these so called "christians" are coming from, it is nothing more than a cult. I went to one meeting and was absolutely furious, I called them out on their so called tactics, guess that was the wrong thing to do huh? Well all I can say is if someone is that stupid to fall for this mumbo jumbo, then they really do get what's coming to them. Good luck to all you future 30 year old retirees, I'm sure you have a bright future ahead of you!

i use to be in the team like this gentlemen, but apparantly we have to very different perspectives, this person seems to have missed the whole point (an revealed his intentions) of why he got in and then got out, he complains about the tools but never shares his experience with them, did he every use them himself??? i would not think so, let me share my side and maybe if there is someone reading this they can take it for what its worth. i was in the team also, i am no longer with the team, i had personal challenges, and they were MY CHALLENGES AND PROBLEMS not anyone on the teams, the tools that this gentlemen is talking about were books and tapes, these books and tapes were instruments in helping other people get what they wanted from the business, anyone see the difference already? those books (that you can buy from any book store) were full of principals that helped me with my thinking, the tapes were from the people who applied those principals and were instumental in teaching me about the business with the application of the principals, i never had enough ambition to do that, but i took the principals and applied them to my job my marriage and to my children, and even though im not building the business anymore, i will get contacted by someone on the TOD and sometimes they are a little rough around the edges and sometimes they are selfish, but i believe and know that if they keep at it they wont be rough around the edges and wont be self serving anymore, i do tell them i was in at one point and tell them to keep going at and to learn more, because that is what made a difference for me. hope it helps anyone and this gentlemen too.

Hello, "Anonymous" I've been following the "TEAM" (formerly known as "Team of Destiny") for a few years now. In light of the recent events that have taken place, I must address a previous comment that you made: "Even if they end up being wildly mistaken about Orrin Woodward and co., they would never seek to rip us off." TEAM King-pins, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, were just terminated from Quixtar about a week ago for running and promoting a deceptive, greedy business model and threatening to create their own, competing MLM program. Therefore, as nice as Mr. Woodward and his church gang may seem, his true face has finally been turned from the shadows. Here are some recent facts and reports you should immediately read: "Woodward was reportedly the instigator of the reintroduction of a "stacking" strategy where IBOs focus on building one leg at a time (depth) rather than focus on building width first. This involved sponsoring people downline of each other. From what I understand, the corporation had tacitly approved the strategy, as long as the IBOs involved met and agreed. Internet reports have said that some teams were however ignoring this requirement, and furthermore taking the "one leg" strategy to extremes - building as many as 50 or more levels deep before starting a second leg. This dramatically decreases bonuses (and profitability) for new IBOs. Furthermore, there were reports the strategy had resulted in a lot of new applications, but little new volume. - IBOFightBack The Truth about Amway and Quixtar" Pretty sick, isn't it? Now I understand why Orrin and the gang consistently told his TEAM that they held records for recruitment and expansion. All those new reps were coming in at such impressive rates. too bad they never generated any PV due to the dysfunction and carelessness of the training program and its leaders. Also, when you stack 1 person on another and 1 on another and on another, etc. all the way to 50 people, new representatives miss out on crucial bonuses; however, someone gains from the overall inefficient chain of people. Care to guess who?! If you said "Orrin, Chris, or any of the guys (or gals) at the top," you're right! Some people are already ignorantly retorting back with comments such as, "But Orrin was such a good man and constantly donated money to church and charities!" Oh? So, what I'm essentially hearing is that it doesn't really matter how you earn the money as long as you give it away to church? "Cheat, lie, manipulate the masses- and then spread our influence beyond Michigan- we've got to deliver food to Africa and save the whales!" Come on, folks! Orrin knew exactly what he was doing. "Stacking" is ONLY an acceptible, profitable MLM arrangement to a distinct degree. It's also not some new, genious invention created by Orrin and his leadership team. I know solid, honest training programs for other MLMs that also implement "stacking" into their team concept. The strategy can be effective, because it allows each representative to reap quick bonuses and feel encouraged to stay motivated and continue building the business. However, the stacking number usually ends at 10, and hardly ever is recommended after the chain reaches 15 people. Once the chain grows too deep, it's time to create a secondary chain; otherwise, you're just throwing your hard earned commission down the drain. Finally, in case there is any doubt, you can verify the above explanation by a letter to the TEAM's founders from the official management of Alticor's QUIXTAR: "After working with Team training organization founders, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, on issues related to the teaching by the organization on positioning of the business as the Team opportunity, the practice of stacking, or inappropriate depth-building, the use of unauthorized business support materials, and because they told Company executives that they intend to begin soliciting IBOs to join their new competing MLM, the Company has terminated Woodward and Brady's Quixtar businesses. Jim Payne Executive Vice President and Managing Director Quixtar Inc." To answer your last question, Anonymous: "I guess my question to fellow skeptics is: Is there a possibility that one can run a Team business in an ethical way that ends up hurting no one?" In my honest opinion, yes, you would have that opportunity; especially since the name "Quixtar" is being retired, and "Amway" is returning to North America. If you want to create an ethical business model, you will probably have to create your own training team with other dedicated individuals. It may take a lot of time and hard work, but if done right, you may reap the rewards. All those people who were deceived, stepped-on, and lied to by the TEAM leaders are going to need someone or some new community to lead them out of darkness; it could be you! What you would need to do is listen to Amway's co-founder Rich DeVos' "Directly Speaking" Tapes, consisting of a Volume I and II. These tapes were produced in 1983, and stressed the moral and ethical problems that were rising in Amway during the 70s and early 80s. Rich carefully describes how to correct the inappropriate avenues that King-Pins were driving on; furthermore, he explains the difference between business training programs that run "illegal tool systems" and economical, acceptible systems. You will learn a lot from these tapes, and although they are old, I recommend trying to find them on e-bay. It's worth the $7-15 cost you may incur. You can probably find "Directly Speaking II" online in MP3 format and listen for free. Just use google, and see what you come up with. I know I've listened to "Directly Speaking II" at least 20 times, and it's pretty easy to differentiate DeVos' high hopes for his empire's future from the pond scum that plague Quixtar today. Rich DeVos was one heck of a role model. It's a true shame that people were too stubborn and greedy to listen to him and change their business around for the better in the 80s. And also remember: Quixtar/Amway is certainly NOT the only arena generating profit for fellow entrepreneurial-minded people such as yourself. Do some research; bump heads (but not literally!) with people who share your dream. You never know what alternative paths you may find. Good luck! I wish you the best in your endeavors.

First of all, I am really wary of consumer scams and cults. I especially hate Scientology and its criminal tactics. I wish more people would wake up to Scientology's evils and try to wipe out this phony religion. I have been reading the posts on Team in this forum with a little alarm, since my wife and I have now attended two recruitment meetings -- a small gathering with about a dozen people and a larger rally at a hotel with about 200 people. A couple we trust introduced us to Team. Even if they end up being wildly mistaken about Orrin Woodward and co., they would never seek to rip us off. That said, it does bother me most of the guys at the meetings dressed the same: dark suit, white shirt and red tie. That's kinda creepy. Also, some of the people I've met are a little too Christian for my taste. (Unless I'm a priest, I'd rather leave God out of business altogether.) And, of course, the whole MLM approach seems like a giant pyramid scheme. And yet: My attitude for now is to keep an open mind. What if my wife and I can actually run this business on the side, make some good money for ourselves and our friends, and save some cash for a rainy day? My day job is fine. I write for an ad agency, which I enjoy doing more than most things. But I can't ever see myself making really big bucks at it. So, if I never change what I do and how I think, I worry that I will be in essentially the same financial circumstances in 20 years that I'm in now. We own a nice house but have too much credit-card debt and have been bad at saving for retirement. Our net worth is laughable, and that's completely our fault. But now, I really want to break those bad habits. At least Team is getting me to think differently about money, financial freedom and spending my time more productively. The people you meet at Team events talk a lot about financial planning and doing better -- and they at least have a plan to raise their net worth. They don't present the plan as a get-rich-quick scheme, either. They are up in front in saying there is some hard work ahead. I guess my question to fellow skeptics is: Is there a possibility that one can run a Team business in an ethical way that ends up hurting no one? I may just end up trying to do exactly that.

If one looks at the success rate for people who buy gym memberships, it would be a clear scam. There is no doubt, when a whole industry has nearly a 90% failure rate, it has to be a scam. Right? Or is it that the beneficial effects of diet and exercise are irrefutable and the results lie with the gym members themselves. For the people who do not get results fall along a continuum of those who quit right away and those who don't quit, but follow a regiment that would never lead to success. Those closer to the latter category probably don't seek advice nor follow it. The same is true for the Team business, except that the success rate is substancially higher than gyms. Nevertheless, like the gym, ultimately success is to follow a proven regiment and to seek advice and training from people who have the success. You see, I floundered in the Team business and with the gym for a lot longer that I care to admit to, but on both fronts I am experiencing much better results because I sought after the right advice and training. I am much healthier and have a growing business. I understand those who experience frustration -- I did. What I found that works for me is to take the bull by the horns for I am the only one responsible for my success. And to complain is to no avail. Thanks, I hope this helps anyone seeking information. If you are not likely to work the Team business as hard as you would work a gym to get in great physical shape, you won't get in great financial shape.

Here is the Video I was talking about in the previous posting. cpserverp4.com/bo/dateline_quixtar.wmv If you decide to take the 20+ minutes and watch the video, one of the top guys states he got in volved for 5 reasons. Money, Money, Money, Money, Money. Anyone ever heard this passage? The love of money is the root of all evil.

My wife and I were approached by a coworker of hers about starting 'the Business'. We decided to walk away, but before making any decisions of your own, I will recomend some reading for you and anyone interesed in the true lies about 'The Team' or 'Quixtar' formerly, Amway. I personally viewed the dateline NBC one year investigation on these businesses, but if you haven't here is the link to the MSNBC where you can read about it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/

I've been studying the basic methodologies incorporated into this "business" for a few years now. More importantly and relevant to this particular discussion, I've witnessed the blind, foolish feelings of "trust" and "faith," to the point where all realism is essentialy discarded. It never fails: Whenever someone describes a true horror story as a result of this toxic pyramid, some IBO pushing 100 PV and MAYBE earning $100 a month through some bland series of recruitment tactics has to arrive with the basic, ignorant, misguided quote- "It's not the system's fault. It must be YOUR fault; you didn't try hard enough." I guess 98% of these reps will have to learn the hard way. Brainwashing is hard to combat. How about I share a story with you that centers around two former, very successful IBOs in the TOD (now more commonly referred to as "The Team"). One of my best friends became involved in this "opportunity" during the Summer of 2003. I was invited to a meeting, colors and sparks flew, yada yada...eventually, it let me to a lot of research and shocking discoveries. I declined the opportunity, but decided to attend an "open meeting" on occassion for amusement. During this experience, I kept a close eye on my friend's "business budy," Ron, who was a new Platinum. Six months later, my friend and I meet up at the local YMCA gymnasium. I inquire about his buddy's status, to which he immediately lowers his head and smirks. "It's over," is all he initially said. Later on, he went on to describe how his upline and role model had gone from Platinum to zero in about 2 months. Furthemore, his upline had said to him (and I quote): "The money is in the tools business. I allowed myself to be manipulated by them for too long. I am sorry I dragged you into this." Those are the words of an Ex-Platinum achieving $3,500 per month, folks. No typical rebuttal of "he didn't have the dream" could apply or even make full sense in this case. This man just so happened to discover the true nature of this program upon achieving one of their coveted levels of success.

hee hee hee, you're so cute, Andy. Be sure to post in 6 years, when you've retired. I won't be holding my breath. RipOff Report will be here in 6 years, I fully expect, however lololol. There are none so blind as those who will not see. When straight answers to simple questions are inexplicably denied to a newcomer, that's what's known as a RED FLAG, Andy. You are so far from the first to make this "I'll be retired before I'm 30!" statement, and strangely enough, I've yet to meet a 30 year old retiree, due to this business, or any other of a similar nature. Yes, there ARE people that young who have retired, but not from this kind of scam. If you know of any, please post their names, and the business that provided them that opportunity. Surely if they have been so successful as to accomplish retirement in a mere 6 years or less, with this business or a similar one, they won't mind being publicized to counter the negative impressions that abound regarding TEAM, specifically. I'm not even requiring they be under 30! Just retired from amassing a lifetime income, independent of Social Security, corporate pensions or inheritances!, due to this business, or similarly structured types of businesses. Listen to the people who have walked the same path you are on. Don't waste your youth and energy on entities that are so not deserving of such things. You will only be 24 once, but you may have many years to regret ignoring the truth of those who tried to tell you what reality is, and you refused to see it. But still, I will mark this report, and check it for your retirement party announcement.

the team is real. TO ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T AGREE, THAT IS OK BECAUSE WE LIVE IN AMERICA, AND YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION. the team is great for me because the "system" is teaching me different ways to look at life. and how to be a leader and instill hope in people that want to have hope. this buisness is not for everybody. we are looking for people that are HONEST, TEACHABLE,HAVE INTEGERITY , AND WANT MORE OUT OF LIFE. this is not a get rich quick scam. it takes hard work and dedication. but me personally, i believe in what i am doing, and i feel that i have found a way to help me retire before i am 30 years old. i am 24. NOW I WILL BE RETIREING IN 6 YEARS, DOES ANYBODY ELSE KNOW OF ANYTHING THAT CAN TAKE A LESS THAN AVERAGE 24 YEAR OLD BOY AND TURN HIM INTO A 30 YEAR OLD MAN WITH MORALS AND STRONG BELIEF IN HELPING OTHERS MAKE A POSITIVE CHANGE IN THIER LIFE. well THIS IS IT!!!! it might not be perfect, BUT ITS THE BEST. there is nothing else like it. to anybody out there that is thinking about joining the team, or has joined and can't get their questions answered, the person you are dealing with just doesn't have the information to give you a correct answer. so my suggestion to you, is ask who their upline leader is. and if they cant give you the information you need, the go to their up line. and if they cant help you this buisness probably is not for you. if this buisness does not work for you, dont get mad and point the finger, just understand and realize that you couldn't change the way that you think to match the way that true wealthy people think. REAL WEALTH IS TIME AND MONEY.......NOT ONE OR THR OTHER!!!

"For the new person out there, go to an open meeting and talk to the person who brought you, get all the facts before you make an informed decision." It would be nice to get all the facts before you make an informed decision, but getting facts from the Diamonds in TEAM regarding this business is harder that pulling teeth. Try finding out how much they make on their motivational system vs their actual Quixtar income per month and you'll get the runaround, the "It's my personal business", and "It's none of your business". Excuse me! You want me to invest in your business and it's none of my business?!? Of course as a new TEAM member you are never told that the real money in this business comes from the motivational tools and seminars. Oh they'll tell you in the first few meetings that the tools are "Strictly optional", but when your fully in you'll get the "Sure Tools are optional, but so is success" and "I don't know anyone who has made it to Diamond without support from the tools". That is about the only truthful statement you'll hear from TEAM "Nobodys made it to Diamond without support from the tools" because you will get no support from your upline and higher ups without fully participating in the tapes, books, functions and seminars. Yes, you'll never even have a chance in this business without participating in the tool scam. Even if you do fully participate you'll have a very slim chance. Australian Amway Executive Diamond Trevor Chatham - The chances of a person making substantial income from an Amway business are very remote - A substantial income from an Amway business, even if achieved, is unlikely to be able to be maintained Former Diamond Don J. Lorencz I joined Amway in Alberta Canada in February 1989 and was part of the True North, Wilson, Yager organizations and soon after I built my business to the diamond level I realized that the Crawfords, Towers, Wilsons and Yagers of this world appeared more interested in 'getting rich' off of selling tapes, books and function tickets to 'their group' than they did in ever helping anyone build their Amway business! Oh Yeah Raymond, Quixtar and Amway distributorships are basically the same. So much so that all the Amway Diamonds just transfered their business to Quixtar when Quixtar was created in 1999. Same Motivational Origanizations, Same Diamonds, same tool system, basically the same compensation plan, same base products with a bunch of affiliate online stores mixed in which pay extremly low PV compared to the Amways products they sell. Basically Amway went from Catalog shopping to an online shopping company under a new company called Quixtar. Quixtar and Amway are both owned by the same parent company.

I'm not saying that it is a rip off, but I just had a meeting with a some what friend of mine and I feel that the very way that the guy tricked me into meeting with them was deceitful even though I'm still open minded I can't get any straight answers from the guy. I ask what are we selling, he tells me that we are not selling anything then I ask what are we doing he goes on this long story about how this was started and whats the benefits of it but never tells me what I asked about. I just have no choice but to think that its some trickery going on if your reps can't answer a straight question. someone if you have a straight answer let me know because it sounds like a Avon or Amway in sheep clothing.

I have comments about 2 of the reports. First of all: If you do not put in the effort to build the business, it will not work. Second, you are not required to keep a trunk of tools, they are strictly optional. If you just sell the tools and never listen to them, you will never go anywhere. Being in it for 7 years you should be diamond already, because your not don't blame it on the business, blame it on yourself, your the only one to blame. This is a duplicatable business. The other one is about not spending time with your family, wife, and kids, there is no one in this business who would tell you to jeopadize you family and not be there for them. I work my business plus take care of my wife and kid. I never miss an event or special date of any kind and I'm doing just fine. Orrin Woodward has never missed a baseball game or any other activity for his kids. So don't try to blame other people for your mess ups. These are the most honest, kind, and caring people I've ever met. They are true christians, they help out whenever they can, they are not out to just make money they are out to make a difference in peoples lives so they can live stress free and so they can do what God intended them to do. There are no guarntees in life, the same applies to business. If you had a dream big enough both of you would be retired by now. The only thing wrong with the business was yourself. I don't mean to come off harsh but this is the best business you could be in. It's not the perfect business but it's the best. We all need to know where the blame should go, you guys just need a bigger dream and motivation. We are always here for you if you would like to give it another try. For the new person out there, go to an open meeting and talk to the person who brought you, get all the facts before you make an informed decision.

No slander here just the facts. I got involved with the "Team of Destiny" later to be renamed simply "The Team" for no ever really explained reason from anybody. I paid the start-up cost $242ish then got a start-up kit $30 then hours and hours and hours of my life on top of working my 40hr job. That was June 05 stayed at it (showing plans as much as possible) (listened to system cds and read system books)(attended weekly opens and monthly seminars)for approxiamately a year and a half. I got pumped up, I got pumped up, I got pumped up !!! I started becoming a different person spent more and more time away from my newly married girfriend and newborn child. I only talked about the business and discovered everything had some connection to the philosophy of the business. I lost closeness with my real family and friends. I went dream building and dreambuilding and dreambuilding and contacting and contacting and contacting to frustration beyond frustration hidden behind a smile or (positive mental attitude), "up when your up up when your down" crazy crazy crazy. I'm filing a ripoff report of about $5500+/-, and a loss of life with those whom I never had to "go powerplayer" with to be my friends.

Hello im responding to the comments about the team/tod im new to this and i havent paid the $265 yet i have to many questions about this and not too many answers.I've been attending meetings on tue night and its the same thing over and over again, so my question is this how real is it and can you make money doing it any info will help.

Hello im responding to the comments about the team/tod im new to this and i havent paid the $265 yet i have to many questions about this and not too many answers.I've been attending meetings on tue night and its the same thing over and over again, so my question is this how real is it and can you make money doing it any info will help.

Hello im responding to the comments about the team/tod im new to this and i havent paid the $265 yet i have to many questions about this and not too many answers.I've been attending meetings on tue night and its the same thing over and over again, so my question is this how real is it and can you make money doing it any info will help.

The person who wrote this states that they were involved for 7 years, but being involved and actually building your business are two totally different things. The TEAM does not require you to purchase tools or stock your trunk, that is optional, but so is success. These tools, as tools used in any other trade (ie. plumbing, or building trades, etc) when used properly, will yeild results. If you only purchased tools and left them in your trunk, you never used them to build your business. There are many people who have been in the business 3 - 7 years, who treated this as a business and when out there and built it, who have far exceeded anything you could amaging. Anyone who is serious about building a business and willing to put in some extra time up front, can have 24 hours a day with their family for the rest of their life, or you can continue to be away from your family 40-90 hours a week for the rest of your life working for someone else and helping them get rich. I myself, prefer to work for myself and make myself rich so that I can live my priorities (ie, My GOD, My Wife, and my children). Notice there is nowhere left in there for my JOB. So continue to work your JOB, because while your doing that, if you notice, you are not with your family anyway.