Complaint Review: Toyota Motor Sales - Torrance California

Silverfox and Steve, I see you made your way to this site to protect Toyota once again. You've both been defaming me for YEARS as you post to refute my Toyota owner facts. Silverfox is from Canada and Steve is from Florida. Both claimed there was no such thing as a Toyota engine oil sludge problem well before the CSP and lawsuit were publicly announced. I was accused of creating a HOAX single-handedly! Imagine that...little 'ole me making up this who sludge story! Meanwhile, Edmund's Town Hall banned me for gathering more facts while it allowed the "spin doctors" to continue to refute any evidence of a MAJOR TOYOTA ENGINE PROBLEM. Interestingly enough, over 6,000 postings resulted after I was banned. The cat was out of the bag, unfortunately for Toyota. Guess no one at TMC was happy I brought it up on public forums, were they? Let's clear the owner maintenance issue up now. I've been speaking with Toyota customers for almost one DECADE now! This is how long Toyota has been unfarily blaming the Toyota vehicle owners for engine oil sludge since I have been following the matter. Toyota's mistreatment predates this, however. I was not the first to highlight the problem online. Steve Weiss was one of the earliest posters. He got frustrated eventually and moved on. Toyota owners who have maintained their vehicles per the manufacturer's recommendation have still experienced Toyota sludge. Those who used synthetics have also had the problem. It is a completely false (no, deceptive!) statement to say that sludge will not or does not happen in these circumstances. TMC dealerships have been caught lying about this condition as well. Check out Parris Boyd's blogspot to see what else the dealerships are resorting to when they disagree with their "valued customers." Looks like some tempers have caused some Toyota employees to vandalize and steal in response to Toyota owners using their Freedom of Speech rights to let others know. If you wish to see some history on this matter, I suggest viewing the Toyota Sludge video on youtube. Be sure to click on the links there and read the channel page as well. Current Toyota models are showing the same signs of sludge that the original class action lawsuit members' vehicles did. Clearly, the problem of Toyota engine oil sludge has NOT been resolved. Toyota owners are upset, but Toyota continues to look the other way. Check out the Toyota online petition entitled Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution. There are almost 3,000 signatures there now, which is about the total number of sludge victims that Toyota admitted to. Hmmmm...did they miraculously all find my petition? Or, is Toyota just blowing blue smoke at us in an effort to deceive the public? The Toyota owners think it is the latter. Check out the Toyotaoilgel dot com site for important information. The tongue-lashing retribution experienced by those of us who care enough to speak out online about the matter is growing. I recently made some comments on the youtube Prius "harmony" videos. My comments were immediately REMOVED! ToyotaUSA is the one who put the videos up on youtube. Is this Bruce Ertmann, formerly the Toyota Manager of Customer-Generated Media? After a decade in this matter, I can accurately say that the internet information is being manipulated by some entities who wish to SPIN the Toyota engine oil sludge inaccuracies. Two major public complaint forums were permanently disabled in the summer of 2004. Postings about Toyota engine oil sludge was increasing daily with mechanics, oil experts, engineers, Toyota owners, lawyers, etc. chiming in. The Complaint Station for Toyota moderators revealed HACKING on more than one occasion. Toyota was the #1 company, ahead of Wal-Mart, in complaint numbers on that site at the time of the hacking. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Guess someone didn't like the Toyota engine oil sludge matter resurfacing---this time with plenty of very angry Toyota owners who were denied coverage of repair costs under the CSP. Let's not forget that Toyota itself described the CSP as "unprecedented and generous." Really?!? Did they bother to ask the Toyota sludge victims about that? Some of these victims are crying, "Deception and Fraud!" Stay-tuned to this saga as it is far from over! Follow "toyotasludge" on Twitter for updates. The Toyota vehicle owners have been forced to counter the powerful "Toyota protectors" who wish to defame and discredit them if they speak up too loudly. Rest assured, if there is a site where someone is vocalizing, these guys will be there. Check out the counsel dot net site for some vicious attacks on Toyota vehicle owners. Jeff Licquia's blog has evidence of someone impersonating me after first using vulgarities and profanity to attack me in a public forum! The IP address was tracked by the blog author to Canada and Sprint. This "Toyota Protector" used the same IP address and different pseudonyms in the attack. Nothing new there as this has been happening for a DECADE now! Why, even Bruce Ertmann, Customer Service CEO at Toyota at the time, used a pseudonym on his former Toyota Camry Problems MSN site, which included a lot of Toyota engine oil sludge information and pictures. The site creator called him out about it. As you might guess, I've had to develop pretty thick skin over the years. Toyota has failed to acknowledge the online petition despite using companies that monitor what is being said about it on the internet. Isn't this STRANGE?!? Bruce Ertmann's friend, Pete Blackshaw, implies that I have a "disproportionate influence on the internet" in his book (on page 125) entitled "Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000." He fails to address the "Toyota Protector" postings which number in the tens of thousands. We think Pete Blackshaw has it all wrong. Toyota owners who have been wronged won't just tell 3,000. They will tell tens of thousands or more on the internet! Hmmmmm, is this why those pesky "Toyota Protectors" are coming out with such vicious attack posts? Is INTIMIDATION really the only way that those close to Toyota are able to counter this Toyota owner engine oil sludge matter? If so, they will EXPOSED in short order. What do WE, the Toyota owners, suggest to both TMC and the bullying "Toyota Protectors?" We say time to PROPERLY RESOLVE THIS MATTER BY CORRECTING THE ENGINE PROBLEM. Didn't Toyota and its associates learn the grade school lesson about bullies? It isn't nice to treat its Toyota owners this way! How did you ever think you could get away with it?!? Bullies...your turn!

Charlene, If Toyota was making the oil I would agree that it is Toyotas fault. Synthetic oil CANNOT make sludge. Sludge is a petroleum by-product. Toyotas are among the longest lasting cars on the road and have been for like 30 years! Do you know how many Toyotas are running around with no problems? Now figure the percentage of those with problems. It is probably about 1/10th of 1% of the total number sold. You come off as being very informed about engines and oils, so please explain to me EXACTLY what part of an engine PRODUCES sludge? Please be very specific when you tell me what engine malfunction produces sludge. What manufacturing error did Toyota make that produces this sludge. I stand by my position, and have the scientific equasion for sludge. Here it is: Cheap customer buys cheap oil and ruins engine. I have worked on lots of engines and raced lots of cars. I have never seen sludge in an engine that used 100% synthetic oil. Never. I get hundreds of thousands of miles out of all of my cars. But I buy good oil, good filters and change them frequently.

You could, I believe, visit VIT and learn about tribology. Focus on the differences between mineral oils and (real) synthetic oils. Your statement: "Saying that synthetic oil will prevent Toyota sludge is plain misleading. It will not." This is simply pure B.S. Otherwise, Consumer Reports data would also show a chronic Toy engine reliability problem.... and the CR reliability of Toy engines is mostly "much better than average". Rule #1: Never argue with the data. Rule #2: If you do not have data, you are just another dude with an opinion. I started my oil research in 1981 with The Handbook of Tribology simply because I was tired of getting 3000 miles service from 'expensive' mineral oil. Now maybe you would have run that 'expensive' mineral oil for 5000 miles, but I noticed 10 seconds of lifter noise during startup in the morning just as soon as that mineral oil had accumulated 3000 miles of service. Any unexplained change in how a machine operates is bad. I switched to Mobil-1 in 1981 and I never changed back to mineral oil because the M-1 actually cost me less money. This was a result of a trouble-free 7500 mile M-1 oil change schedule... and oh yes, the oil filters cost $5 each. The M-1 plus oil filter over 7500 miles cost me less per mile than did mineral oil plus oil filter every 3000 miles. I overheated a Toy Camry in 1999 because the radiator failed on the NY Thruway. The temp gauge was pegged at beyond hot. I coasted to a rest area, let the engine cool, poured in water, and drove on home, stopping when more water was needed. I replaced the radiator and the engine was fine. The Mobil-1 in that Camry engine did not really have to be changed. Mineral oil would have started to coke and caused the engine to be trashed. Well, good luck on your quest. I do not want to confuse you with any more facts about oils. I do have a new Toy V6 coming.... I will let you know how everything develops.

Steve, reading the posts for 2 hours really isn't enough to know the full picture, I am sorry to say. You really have to be following this matter from the beginning and you must correspond with the ones who are Toyota sludge victims to fully understand what is happening. Toyota specified oil changes every 5,000 miles to every 7,500 miles depending on driving conditions. There was no specification to use synthetic oil in the owner's manual of the sludgemobiles. And, yet, the owners are being penalized for these things now? Many Toyota owners have voiced their concerns about Toyota engines not holding up under normal driving conditions. The engines are not showing the reliability that the earlier model years did (circa 1990). Early engine demise is far too common among these vehicles. Sludge can be caused by a number of conditions. Certainly what an engine does to the oil is critical. There is very high heat in the affected engines, and many owners report scorchingly hot engine surfaces after highway driving. This is just one condition that can exacerbate the break down of the engine oil. In these engines, there seem to be multiple conditions going on at once. It is unfortunate, but these engines are failing well under 100,000 miles in most cases reported by Toyota owners. Consumers are the scapegoats in the Toyota sludge matter. It is unfortunate that Toyota chooses to put the blame squarely on the consumers and yet it refuses to show proof that this is the case. On the contrary, Toyota by now has many owner reports showing that oil changes were done at better than recommended intervals but the vehicles still became clogged with sludge. Steve, have you checked with Toyota on this? Remember, a Toyota spokesperson said that there was not a single case of sludge in a properly maintained Toyota. This is an outright LIE, however. It has happened time and time again. Toyota simply cannot refute this. Saying that synthetic oil will prevent Toyota sludge is plain misleading. It will not. Charlene Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution Vienna, VA

"Heck if you use mobil 1 oil I will bet you could even get 80K out of a Saturn engine." Hmmmm..... But here is Consumer Reports' reliability data: Note that "Much better than average" represents the most favorable rating.... Toy 4Runner V6 Engine '03 Better than average '98, '99, '01, '02, '04, '05 Much better than average Toy Avalon (V6) Engine '98 thru '05 much better than average Toy Camry V6 Engine '98, '00 thru '05 much better than average '99 better than average Toy Camry Solara V6 Engine '98 thru '05 much better than average Toy Highlander V6 Engine '01 thru '05 much better than average Toy Tacoma V6 Engine '98 thru '05 much better than average

Charlene, You are still missing the point! Sludge is a product of petroleum based oils ONLY. You cannot get sludge from a 100% synthetic oil unless there are massive amounts of dirt introduced. And, I have read hundreds of posts on this over the past 2 hours and not one mentioned using synthetic oil. Although I did find some that used 20w50 conventional oil which is totally wrong for this engine. And I found one who had more than 40k miles on the engine and only had done 6 oil changes! And many who were doing 7500 mile oil change intervals with conventional oil! I did not read one post where the owner used nothing but 100% synthetic from day one. Not one post out of hundreds! A simple web search for "Toyota oil sludge problem" will bring numerous results. Since approx. 1999 from what I read, and understand, MOST manufacturers REQUIRE 100% synthetic oil. But like I said before, most people are cheap, and cut corners on the oil they choose for their car. Even my 1996 SAAB 900s owner manual suggests a premium synthetic oil. And guess what? That is all i have ever put in it. Guess what else? It has 171,000 miles on it and runs great! No leaks and no smoke! And NO sludge! And, this engine is designed to run very hot and run at very high rpm's. My 1999 Chevy 3500 with the Vortec 7.4L has it right on the cap! USE ONLY 5w30 100% synthetic oil only! Use of other oils may void your engine warranty. How would sludge be an auto manufacturers fault? Sludge is an oil issue, not a mechanical issue. Talk to any Toyota dealer and I bet they tell you to only use 100% synthetic oil. I have been a mechanic and have worked on and rebuilt hundreds of engines and I have raced cars as well. I have seen the difference between using conventional oils and synthetics. I have never seen sludge with synthetic oil use. Never. Toyota has determined the cause of this problem, but you just don't agree with it! It IS the consumers fault. Wrong oil choices and oil change intervals that are too long! people just don't like to hear this especially when they are trying to get someone else to pay for their repairs!

I agree with the comments regarding the use of synthetic oils. I have a 94 1mzfe engine with 219,000 on it and it runs just fine, does not burn a drop of oil. Since it was new I have used Mobil 1 and this engine is on the list of engines that will sludge up and die early. Heck if you use mobil 1 oil I will bet you could even get 80K out of a Saturn engine.

Steve, unfortunately the victims of Toyota sludge who I refer to include those who did use synthetic oil. While the synthetic oil was better at dissipating the heat, the truth is that many Toyota owners were stunned to learn that good maintenance and synthetic oil did not prevent sludge from developing. The issue of Toyota sludge is far from must a simple owner maintenance issue. Remember, it is Toyota that says that it has never seen a case of engine oil sludge in a properly maintained vehicle, not its loyal customers (see Mike Michels' and John Hanson's public statements). For some reason, Toyota has been compelled to blame the Toyota owners for this condition...much as you have done in your post. For those of us who have followed this matter for about six years now, a generalization by Toyota that the owners are to blame is simply ridiculous and untrue. To the thousands of owners who have experienced the massive engine failure due to sludge, this Toyota generalization is nothing more than a slap in the face. It's bad enough that these owners have had the inconvenience and financial setback, but Toyota's claim is unconscionable. These owners believe that there is an inherent problem witin these Toyota engines that contributes to the formation of engine oil sludge despite proper maintenance. Toyota is aware that owners with good maintenance records have had sludge develop in their engines. This includes some models not covered under Toyotas CSP. So, synthetic oil is not the answer to the Toyota sludge problem. It may help temporarily deter it, but, according to owner experience, it will not prevent it from occurring. But, Toyota knows this, doesn't it?! Charlene Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution Vienna, VA

I think Robert will even agree on this one. The Toyota oil sludge problem is not an engine problem, it is an oil problem. It is caused by using petroleum based oils in a very hot running engine and long oil change intervals. The solution is simple here. Use a PREMIUM 100% Synthetic oil of the proper viscosity. A 5w40 is usually a good choice for these small hot running high revving engines. Oil sludge is a problem associated with the break down of petroleum oils. It probably affects those people who like the $12.99 oil change more than they person who will spend $65 on the good synthetic job. Cheap people do cheap maintenence, then want someone else to blame when things go wrong. And, Robert, I agree now on the valve seal and head bolt thing, but still feel the quoted price was high. I was not thinking of the proper type of engine when I made that statement. And I suggested the Lucas, as I like the additives in it that really do a good job avoiding dry starts. Thanks.

Mary,thank you for posting your experience with Toyota's engine malady. As you mentioned, there are hundreds of Toyota owners making it known that their Toyota engines have failed prematurely and in some cases, for no known reason. There have even been Toyota engine FIRES associated with the vehicles in this group of sludgemobiles. Is anyone in the government looking into the safety issues surrounding Toyota engine oil sludge? One woman was almost killed in a spontaneous Sienna engine fire....years after the fire, she is still recovering. This woman's two prized collies were killed in the fire, though...and they were the woman's companions! Will anyone connect the dots here? What is being done to protect the Toyota owners? Just as you say, owners have noted that Toyota dealerships haven't been interested in hearing about engine oil sludge, premature engine failure, failure of the emissions control components, or any other major engine defect in these Toyota vehicles. Indeed, many a dealership personnel have been downright rude and intimidating to Toyota owners in an effort to drive them away...away from the issue of SLUDGE. Ironically, the ones getting the most grief are the ones who can show records for a well-maintained vehicle. Why would this be? Well, it would be because Toyota is NOT interested in documenting cases of sludge in well-maintained Toyota vehicles. If it documented this, it would have to admit that this is NOT an owner-maintenance issue but rather an engine defect issue. This would interfere greatly in Toyota's climb to the top fiscally, wouldn't it?? Is "Customer Support" (the REAL kind, not just the public promise kind) just lip service at Toyota? Ask the nearly 1700 signers of the "Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution" online petition, and be ready for quite a Toyota owner experience account! Mary, most likely Toyota knows what the failure mode is. Bruce Ertmann, a Toyota CEO currently involved in "Customer-Generated Media," indicated that the information on this group of engines is "proprietary" and that the owners may not have access to it. It seems that many Toyota owners don't even have access to the CSP for Toyota Engine Oil Gelation information....the information that was supposed to be (according to Toyota and Bruce Ertmann) sent to all 3.3 million affeced vehicle owners!! Mr. Ertmann said that the first round of notifications were interrupted and cancelled. The first notification was a letter that was demeaning to the Toyota owners. The second notification was more general, but apparently, many Toyota owners STILL don't have either letter!! So what is this all about?!? Why are Toyota owners being kept in the dark for YEARS? Is this what customer service is all about? Is this what quality vehicles is all about? Is this the way Toyota will continue to do business? How will this company come forward to actually RESOLVE the engine oil sludge problem in its vehicles? Toyota came out with a public promise to repair and REPLACE these engines. So, why isn't it doing this for ALL AFFECTED TOYOTA OWNERS?!? No, this matter is far from over. Toyota sludge victims are FAR FROM ALONE!! Send your CERTIFIED letter to Toyota and ask for full coverage of repair costs. Demand the ORIGINAL sludge letter (not the letter from an attorney's office) and file complaints with the Center for Auto Safety and the NHTSA. Post here and on every auto consumer site available. Create fliers or web sites to share your experience with other "in the dark" Toyota owners. Don't give in to the pressure and intimidation by any of Toyota's dealerships. DOCUMENT instances of intimidation and send this information to Toyota in certified form. Take down quotes made by dealerships, especially if you are deceived about the sludge program. Voice your concerns publicly! Charlene Auto Consumer Advocate Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution Vienna, VA

"Mary, I would try a bottle of Lucas Synthetic oil treatment and some good synthetic oil for a few weeks. You may be suprised. I run only synthetic oils. Big difference." -Lucas only thickens the oil. Valve seals won't cause the rate of oil consumption she has. Look for bad rings. Get a leak-down test. Robert-Jacksonville, "I have never seen an engine yet that I couldn't change the valve seals with the heads on by the method I described. Have you ever done it with the air hose method?" -Yes. You can do that with any pushrod engine, and most OHC engines. Her engine is not "most". She has 4 valves per cylinder, and if one drops in, the head will have to be pulled anyway. There's a reason the "book" calls for it to be done that way. It takes 7.6 hours to replace the camshafts. For the extra 12 hours, you may as well do the job correctly. "And, I have never changed head bolts on a newer low mileage engine. It is an unneccessary expense." -No, it's a very needed expense. The bolts are "torque to yield", and should never be reused. Once they have been stretched, they will no longer be able to be torqued down again. Again, for $100 list, out of a job worth over $2000, it's just good sense to do it correctly. "Furthermore. you can get a set of rebuilt heads on that engine for a lot less ." -I'm with you on that point. Actually, I would tell my customer to just let me send the heads to the machine shop for a good valve-job, and be done with it. Get the heads tanked, and the valves "fixed", so the customer would be better off in the long run. The overall cost would be about the same, since the labor to do the valve-job would include replacing the seals. "And, I am not talking about shop mark up and shop labor, I'm talking about someone doing it themselves, as it is fairly easy.[The vale seals]." -I seriously doubt Mary wants to attempt her own repairs on that engine. A 350 Chevy from the 60-90 era perhaps, but not a 3.0 Toyota engine. "That 19.7 hours labor guide you quoted is including removing the heads. Are you telling me that it is impossible to change those valve seals with the air pressure method I described?" -See above. Yes, it is next to impossible. With 4 valves per cylinder, if even one decides to let air leak past, you risk dropping the valve into the cylinder, and then you have no choice, but to do the job correctly. I watched a guy attempt seal replacement on an Acura V6. That was the funniest week of my life. He thought he could use air too. Ten hours/day, for 5 days. He refused to just pull the heads off. Good time management. "Now, for the water and Ajax treatment. That is insane! I would never do that to any newer car! It worked on those very old low tolerance cast iron bocks with no sensors or computer equipment, but I am positive it would do more harm than good on todays engines." -I told Mary to try it if she was brave. I've done it to a few late model engines. You don't just dump the solution in. You sloooooooowly pour it down the gullet. If you do it too fast, you risk locking the engine up. It doesn't help the "cats", but doing it just once shouldn't kill it(them) either. At worst, it doesn't work, and you may have to replace the "cat" along with any other repair. At best, everything is fine, and for the cost of some water, and cleanser, your engine works properly again. Middle of the road...you have to replace the "cat"...a few hundred dollars. Converters are pretty resilient though, so it should be able to handle it. Keep in mind, Mary is going to end up needing another engine anyway if the rings are bad. A leak-down test(not a compression test) will confirm this issue. Bad rings will also cause massive amounts of "blow-by". Too much "blow-by" will overtax the best PCV system out there. I just don't see valve seals causing this oil consumption. Bad seals generally just give you a little smoke when you start the engine. I just don't believe her seals are the problem. Just out of curiosity, which two cylinders are burning the oil? Has "blow-by" been an issue, and has the PCV system been rerouted in an attempt to slow the consumption down? Is the PCV hose inlet in the same runner as the two cylinders that are fouling out? This is fairly common, and can be fixed by finding another attaching point for the inlet hose...one that recieves it's vaccum signal from ALL of the cylinders. Drilling and tapping a new hole for a fitting may be required. It may behoove you to have the PCV system disconnected to see if it helps. Every issue can be solved...it just takes a little knowledge, patience, and a mechanic who can think "outside the box". Good luck.

Mary, I would try a bottle of Lucas Synthetic oil treatment and some good synthetic oil for a few weeks. You may be suprised. I run only synthetic oils. Big difference. Robert-Jacksonville, I have never seen an engine yet that I couldn't change the valve seals with the heads on by the method I described. Have you ever done it with the air hose method? And, I have never changed head bolts on a newer low mileage engine. It is an unneccessary expense. Furthermore. you can get a set of rebuilt heads on that engine for a lot less . And, I am not talking about shop mark up and shop labor, I'm talking about someone doing it themselves, as it is fairly easy.[The vale seals]. That 19.7 hours labor guide you quoted is including removing the heads. Are you telling me that it is impossible to change those valve seals with the air pressure method I described? Now, for the water and Ajax treatment. That is insane! I would never do that to any newer car! It worked on those very old low tolerance cast iron bocks with no sensors or computer equipment, but I am positive it would do more harm than good on todays engines.

Robert in Florida and Alan in Minneapolis, I tried the solvents (ATF) in my engine last summer. It did not work. My oil consumption only got worse. I also do not have oil sludge in my engine as I check my engine oil every day. It has never been more than 1/2 quart low. I also change my oil frequently. Oil sludge develops when the engine is low in oil. My engine also was manufactured before July 2001 and should have been honored by Toyota's recall policy. I paid an independent mechanic money to research my engine's problem and he placed the blame on a defective engine, which Toyota will replace. We took pictures of the spark plugs, valve seals, engine, etc in which we knew the oil consumption issue was found in two of the 6 cylinders. The head mechanic also instructed me that the Toyota Dealer will refuse to honor the recall and will place the blame on the valve seals. We were told this by a rep from Toyota Customer Service. That is why we took pictures and documented everything. The mechanic told me that I need to be strong and to not let them lie (as they will). He also asked me if I could get my father or brothers to handle this as he felt the dealers will walk all over me as I am a woman. He told me they will lie through their teeth as they are being instructed to do so. I took my car in to Heintz Toyota for the engine recall. My car went through 4 quarts of oil in one week. I also tried showing them my pictures and documentation from Siewerts garage. When I tried they pushed me away and said they do not need to see my pictures or anything else. They also implied that I was ignorant and stupid. 4 days later the dealer called me and told me my car's engine is not covered under the recall policy, because there was not enough oil sludge in the engine. I asked them what is causing my engine to lose 4 quarts of oil in one week? They told me I had two bad valve seals. I know as a fact I do not have two bad valve seals and again tried showing them my pictures, they told me I needed to trust them as they are experts. I asked to trade my car as I felt the valve seals will not fix the engine, they told me my car was worth nothing as it has a major defect in the engine. Now what do I do? There is a petition with over 1500 signatures from unhappy Toyota customers who have been denied on the recall. How many are women? It would be interesting to know. I really feel if my father or brothers handled this the recall would not have been denied. Thanks for your help. Mary

Robert in Florida and Alan in Minneapolis, I tried the solvents (ATF) in my engine last summer. It did not work. My oil consumption only got worse. I also do not have oil sludge in my engine as I check my engine oil every day. It has never been more than 1/2 quart low. I also change my oil frequently. Oil sludge develops when the engine is low in oil. My engine also was manufactured before July 2001 and should have been honored by Toyota's recall policy. I paid an independent mechanic money to research my engine's problem and he placed the blame on a defective engine, which Toyota will replace. We took pictures of the spark plugs, valve seals, engine, etc in which we knew the oil consumption issue was found in two of the 6 cylinders. The head mechanic also instructed me that the Toyota Dealer will refuse to honor the recall and will place the blame on the valve seals. We were told this by a rep from Toyota Customer Service. That is why we took pictures and documented everything. The mechanic told me that I need to be strong and to not let them lie (as they will). He also asked me if I could get my father or brothers to handle this as he felt the dealers will walk all over me as I am a woman. He told me they will lie through their teeth as they are being instructed to do so. I took my car in to Heintz Toyota for the engine recall. My car went through 4 quarts of oil in one week. I also tried showing them my pictures and documentation from Siewerts garage. When I tried they pushed me away and said they do not need to see my pictures or anything else. They also implied that I was ignorant and stupid. 4 days later the dealer called me and told me my car's engine is not covered under the recall policy, because there was not enough oil sludge in the engine. I asked them what is causing my engine to lose 4 quarts of oil in one week? They told me I had two bad valve seals. I know as a fact I do not have two bad valve seals and again tried showing them my pictures, they told me I needed to trust them as they are experts. I asked to trade my car as I felt the valve seals will not fix the engine, they told me my car was worth nothing as it has a major defect in the engine. Now what do I do? There is a petition with over 1500 signatures from unhappy Toyota customers who have been denied on the recall. How many are women? It would be interesting to know. I really feel if my father or brothers handled this the recall would not have been denied. Thanks for your help. Mary

Robert in Florida and Alan in Minneapolis, I tried the solvents (ATF) in my engine last summer. It did not work. My oil consumption only got worse. I also do not have oil sludge in my engine as I check my engine oil every day. It has never been more than 1/2 quart low. I also change my oil frequently. Oil sludge develops when the engine is low in oil. My engine also was manufactured before July 2001 and should have been honored by Toyota's recall policy. I paid an independent mechanic money to research my engine's problem and he placed the blame on a defective engine, which Toyota will replace. We took pictures of the spark plugs, valve seals, engine, etc in which we knew the oil consumption issue was found in two of the 6 cylinders. The head mechanic also instructed me that the Toyota Dealer will refuse to honor the recall and will place the blame on the valve seals. We were told this by a rep from Toyota Customer Service. That is why we took pictures and documented everything. The mechanic told me that I need to be strong and to not let them lie (as they will). He also asked me if I could get my father or brothers to handle this as he felt the dealers will walk all over me as I am a woman. He told me they will lie through their teeth as they are being instructed to do so. I took my car in to Heintz Toyota for the engine recall. My car went through 4 quarts of oil in one week. I also tried showing them my pictures and documentation from Siewerts garage. When I tried they pushed me away and said they do not need to see my pictures or anything else. They also implied that I was ignorant and stupid. 4 days later the dealer called me and told me my car's engine is not covered under the recall policy, because there was not enough oil sludge in the engine. I asked them what is causing my engine to lose 4 quarts of oil in one week? They told me I had two bad valve seals. I know as a fact I do not have two bad valve seals and again tried showing them my pictures, they told me I needed to trust them as they are experts. I asked to trade my car as I felt the valve seals will not fix the engine, they told me my car was worth nothing as it has a major defect in the engine. Now what do I do? There is a petition with over 1500 signatures from unhappy Toyota customers who have been denied on the recall. How many are women? It would be interesting to know. I really feel if my father or brothers handled this the recall would not have been denied. Thanks for your help. Mary

Robert in Florida and Alan in Minneapolis, I tried the solvents (ATF) in my engine last summer. It did not work. My oil consumption only got worse. I also do not have oil sludge in my engine as I check my engine oil every day. It has never been more than 1/2 quart low. I also change my oil frequently. Oil sludge develops when the engine is low in oil. My engine also was manufactured before July 2001 and should have been honored by Toyota's recall policy. I paid an independent mechanic money to research my engine's problem and he placed the blame on a defective engine, which Toyota will replace. We took pictures of the spark plugs, valve seals, engine, etc in which we knew the oil consumption issue was found in two of the 6 cylinders. The head mechanic also instructed me that the Toyota Dealer will refuse to honor the recall and will place the blame on the valve seals. We were told this by a rep from Toyota Customer Service. That is why we took pictures and documented everything. The mechanic told me that I need to be strong and to not let them lie (as they will). He also asked me if I could get my father or brothers to handle this as he felt the dealers will walk all over me as I am a woman. He told me they will lie through their teeth as they are being instructed to do so. I took my car in to Heintz Toyota for the engine recall. My car went through 4 quarts of oil in one week. I also tried showing them my pictures and documentation from Siewerts garage. When I tried they pushed me away and said they do not need to see my pictures or anything else. They also implied that I was ignorant and stupid. 4 days later the dealer called me and told me my car's engine is not covered under the recall policy, because there was not enough oil sludge in the engine. I asked them what is causing my engine to lose 4 quarts of oil in one week? They told me I had two bad valve seals. I know as a fact I do not have two bad valve seals and again tried showing them my pictures, they told me I needed to trust them as they are experts. I asked to trade my car as I felt the valve seals will not fix the engine, they told me my car was worth nothing as it has a major defect in the engine. Now what do I do? There is a petition with over 1500 signatures from unhappy Toyota customers who have been denied on the recall. How many are women? It would be interesting to know. I really feel if my father or brothers handled this the recall would not have been denied. Thanks for your help. Mary

If your Highlander was built before July 2001, you need to contact Toyota. They have replaced 4,000 of these engines free of charge because of bad design. Just do a search on the net looking for Toyota 3.0 problems and you'll find it.

But isn't the "white stuff" in the compression chamber a sign of water getting in? Either way, I say a complete valve and head job should fix the problem, and maybe check the mating surface of the block? The car could have overheated and then been traded in. As far as the tranny fluid, I used that trick to fix a 390 Ford with a stuck valve. Half a quart in the oil and the rest poured down the carb while keeping it at a rev. Smoked like hell for a few minutes and sputtered, then purred like a kitten thereafter.

Try the ATF trick suggested from Robert in FL, and see if that does the trick. You may just have a lot of sludge build up in the engine, what do you have to lose?. If it does work send Robert a nice bundt cake and make sure that you change your oil on a regular basis to prevent this from happening again. I have a 94 camry V6 the 94 version of the 1mzfe engine and I use mobile 1 oil. I think this engine is also one that is on the Toyota terrible engine list.

There are 24 valve seals on that engine. The labor to replace them is 19.7 hours. You also have to remove the heads in order to do the job. The head set on that engine is over $450. Add another $100 for new head bolts, and whatever you want for fluids, and you have a job that comes in around $2200-$2500. I don't know if new valve seals would accomplish anything on Mary's truck, but at the very least, I would get another opinion from a local garage. Dealerships have a habit of finding the worst case scenario...sort of like Transmission shops. Personally, I think the issue is related to the piston rings, not the seals. In that event, buy another engine. Once the heads were off, the dealership would watch how fast oil leaked past the rings, and then try to sell Mary an engine. Mary...you may be able to fix the problem yourself. Instead of adding engine oil, add ATF(Dexron3). Use about 2 qts of ATF to every 3 qts of engine oil. ATF is really nothing more than a 5W base oil, with LOTS of detergent added. It will not damage anything. This is an old trick mechanics have used for decades to free up stuck rings. This should clean the rings enough to make them expand again. They get stuck due to sludge(lack of maintenance). This will also clean the rest of the engine(pretty sweet, eh?). Once they are working again(if they do like they should), you should have no more problems. It will not happen in a week. You should give it about a month(at least 1000 miles). Keep adding ATF and engine oil when the level gets low. Do not overfill the crankcase. OR... If you feel real brave, you can mix up a 1 quart solution of AJAX cleaner and water. It should be about as thick as regular milk. Hold the throttle open at about 2500rpm and slowly add the solution. Do not add it so fast you drown the engine. You want it to lug, but not stall. The scouring powder will deglaze the cylinders and force the rings to reseat. Use this method ONLY as a last resort. It's not good for the catalytic converters. Again, this is an "old school" method of freeing up stuck rings. This method takes about an hour total. Both methods work. The new guys don't know about this stuff, and it won't make money for the dealerships. But, you can bet your bottom dollar, that older guy working at ANY repair facility knows about these two tricks. Good luck.

There are 24 valve seals on that engine. The labor to replace them is 19.7 hours. You also have to remove the heads in order to do the job. The head set on that engine is over $450. Add another $100 for new head bolts, and whatever you want for fluids, and you have a job that comes in around $2200-$2500. I don't know if new valve seals would accomplish anything on Mary's truck, but at the very least, I would get another opinion from a local garage. Dealerships have a habit of finding the worst case scenario...sort of like Transmission shops. Personally, I think the issue is related to the piston rings, not the seals. In that event, buy another engine. Once the heads were off, the dealership would watch how fast oil leaked past the rings, and then try to sell Mary an engine. Mary...you may be able to fix the problem yourself. Instead of adding engine oil, add ATF(Dexron3). Use about 2 qts of ATF to every 3 qts of engine oil. ATF is really nothing more than a 5W base oil, with LOTS of detergent added. It will not damage anything. This is an old trick mechanics have used for decades to free up stuck rings. This should clean the rings enough to make them expand again. They get stuck due to sludge(lack of maintenance). This will also clean the rest of the engine(pretty sweet, eh?). Once they are working again(if they do like they should), you should have no more problems. It will not happen in a week. You should give it about a month(at least 1000 miles). Keep adding ATF and engine oil when the level gets low. Do not overfill the crankcase. OR... If you feel real brave, you can mix up a 1 quart solution of AJAX cleaner and water. It should be about as thick as regular milk. Hold the throttle open at about 2500rpm and slowly add the solution. Do not add it so fast you drown the engine. You want it to lug, but not stall. The scouring powder will deglaze the cylinders and force the rings to reseat. Use this method ONLY as a last resort. It's not good for the catalytic converters. Again, this is an "old school" method of freeing up stuck rings. This method takes about an hour total. Both methods work. The new guys don't know about this stuff, and it won't make money for the dealerships. But, you can bet your bottom dollar, that older guy working at ANY repair facility knows about these two tricks. Good luck.

regarding the Toyota Goodwill recall on the 3 liter V6 engines with model #1MZFE code, here is what I know on this issue: Toyota, in a quest to reduce air emissions, reduced the cooling passages in their engines. By reducing the cooling passages the engine had a more complete burn with lower emissions. This can also create hot and cold zones in certain engines. Two manufacturing lines of the 3 liter V6 engines, had numerous problems (after design change)and the engines started to fail most with oil sludge issues (see Toyota Oil Sludge articles on the internet). These engines were failing and some were still under warranty. The engines were consuming oil, the oil was gelling and costumers complained of white smoke during start up. Toyota insisted the engines were improperly maintained. However, the engine problem only occurred on these two engine codes. In 2002 the problem was some how eliminated. In other words Toyota found the problem, corrected it, but still insisted the engines (with defects) were improperly maintained. In order to avoid a law suite, Toyota offered a Goodwill recall, on these engines, if the owner could produce oil change receipts every 3,000 miles. Many owners, with engine problems, were denied. In 2004 (prior to purchasing my car) Toyota changed the recall policy (forced by impending legal action) to replace defective engines without proof of oil changes. The recall includes engines up to 8 years old and unlimited mileage. Toyota sent out letters to owners of these engines. I never saw nor was made aware of this letter or recall policy. When I purchased the car, in 2004, it was already consuming oil. I brought it to a local Toyota Dealer who denied issues with these engines. I have owned 4 Toyotas. I currently own a 1998 Toyota Camry, and outside of the water pump and timing belt, the car has all original parts and has over 284,000 miles. It is a dam good car. I am also a mechanical engineer and understand the importance of maintaining cars. I believe Toyota sent out defective engines. I happen to be the lucky owner of one of them. My engine has significant internal defects in two of its cylinders, while the other 4 are fine. There is nothing wrong with the valve seals, head gaskets etc. I will have to replace my engine (front block) to repair my car. In order for the customer to get a new engine (offered through the Goodwill Recall program)they must go through a dealer to get approval. The Dealer will deny the recall and place blame on the valve seals. I believed Toyota was an honorable company. I stand corrected.

This shop should be avoided at all cost, if in fact that was an honest quote. The last time I bought valve seals, they were about $2.00 each. That is about $15 max for parts and tax. Where does the other $1985 come in? Labor? Lets make it easy, we will allow the other $85 for valve cover gaskets. Now we have $1900 left over, for what? At $85 an hour that allows just over 22 hours to change 6 valve seals! You could put a complete new set of heads on this engine parts and labor for less than $2000.00! FYI..An experienced mechanic can change valve seals on that engine in less than 2 hours. They simply pull the valve covers, and use an air hose at the spark plug hole, lift the valve, roll off the old seal and roll on the new one, release air. Done. Next.

This shop should be avoided at all cost, if in fact that was an honest quote. The last time I bought valve seals, they were about $2.00 each. That is about $15 max for parts and tax. Where does the other $1985 come in? Labor? Lets make it easy, we will allow the other $85 for valve cover gaskets. Now we have $1900 left over, for what? At $85 an hour that allows just over 22 hours to change 6 valve seals! You could put a complete new set of heads on this engine parts and labor for less than $2000.00! FYI..An experienced mechanic can change valve seals on that engine in less than 2 hours. They simply pull the valve covers, and use an air hose at the spark plug hole, lift the valve, roll off the old seal and roll on the new one, release air. Done. Next.

This shop should be avoided at all cost, if in fact that was an honest quote. The last time I bought valve seals, they were about $2.00 each. That is about $15 max for parts and tax. Where does the other $1985 come in? Labor? Lets make it easy, we will allow the other $85 for valve cover gaskets. Now we have $1900 left over, for what? At $85 an hour that allows just over 22 hours to change 6 valve seals! You could put a complete new set of heads on this engine parts and labor for less than $2000.00! FYI..An experienced mechanic can change valve seals on that engine in less than 2 hours. They simply pull the valve covers, and use an air hose at the spark plug hole, lift the valve, roll off the old seal and roll on the new one, release air. Done. Next.

This shop should be avoided at all cost, if in fact that was an honest quote. The last time I bought valve seals, they were about $2.00 each. That is about $15 max for parts and tax. Where does the other $1985 come in? Labor? Lets make it easy, we will allow the other $85 for valve cover gaskets. Now we have $1900 left over, for what? At $85 an hour that allows just over 22 hours to change 6 valve seals! You could put a complete new set of heads on this engine parts and labor for less than $2000.00! FYI..An experienced mechanic can change valve seals on that engine in less than 2 hours. They simply pull the valve covers, and use an air hose at the spark plug hole, lift the valve, roll off the old seal and roll on the new one, release air. Done. Next.

Toyota issued three, and none of them are for engine problems. They are : 01V228000 SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTS:MASTER CYLINDER 02V208000 FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE:TANK ASSEMBLY:MOUNTING 04V181000 LATCHES/LOCKS/LINKAGES:DOORS:LATCH That's it. Nothing about replacing engines. The engines fail because people don't like maintaining their vehicles.

This is a recall, not a warranty issue. I think the OP did a very thorough job of describing the issues, and the resolutions, and is correct in her opinion that Toyota is dropping the ball on this. If it was me, I would go to another dealer and get rid of that POS and get a decent vehicle.

You bought a used vehicle with 48,000 miles on it and expect the mfg to cover any problems you have, the same as if it is still under the original 3 year/36,000 mile warranty. Did they offer you an extended warranty when you bought the vehicle?