Complaint Review: Toyota of Cleveland - cleveland Tennessee

Michael - Again you raise some excellent points. I know, from a friend who was a car salesman for 2 years, that the management places high demands (and thus, pressure) on their salespeople. As he told me, if you didn't have enough "x's" in your bracket on the monthly sales display, you were in deep. In the end, sales wasn't his thing and he moved on to something else. Like I said before, I am all for the dealership and its salesperson to make a sound profit on my purchase. The problem (this really applies to the pre-owned cars, which I stick to due to depreciation) is the great unknown about car values. I am currently in the market for a new vehicle (need a 4-wheel drive ride due to a new job and its attendance responsibilities), and so far have been scorned when I pulled out the Blue Book and the NADA guide. From a consumer standpoint, it can become very confusing in figuring out what is a fair value for a vehicle for both parties. Recently a friend of mine suggested I invest in the Galves monthly periodical, which will give you wholesale (i.e. auction) values. From there, you can add on...say 3,000 or so (depending on the condition, mileage, etc. of what you are looking at) and figure that you are getting the car at a decent price and the dealership and its salesperson should be happy with the profit. Of course, the car market is always changing and nowadays it seems that the higher the MPG a car gets, the higher price it is commanding. Anyway, I hope to ultimately come to a price that will satisfy everyone. I understand your viewpoint.....and, upon reconsideration, I think that us consumers need to keep in mind that the person at the other side of the desk needs to make a living as we all do. There's no doubt that the auto sales industry is littered with shady characters who will rip customers off in a second, but there are an equal, if not more, amount of salespeople who just want to earn a living and do what is right by their customers. I think the best thing for everyone is to share the good experiences at dealerships and, as what happens here, share the negative ones so those who tanish the industry are held accountable. Thanks again for your thoughts...certainly give reason to pause and think.

But it's not the whole story in the instance of your example regarding your Xterra. The dealership might have given you 11,500 for the car, and lets say they put another 700 or so in for reconditioning. They now own the vehicle for 12,200. The vehicle goes out on the lot with a price of 19,499... but that doesn't mean they sell it for that. This would represent a profit margin of approximately 7,300. I can assure you there's very little chance they got anywhere near that for your car. More than likely they got something around 14,000 to 15,000. This would net them, if we split that down the middle, about 2,300. That's a relatively fair profit on a used car in my opinion. If indeed the Xterra 'booked' for a retail price of 19,000 or so, then you should have negotiated a little harder on the trade value. But all that isn't really important. My father used to collect baseball cards. The old man would spend literally hours every night organizing and cataloging his cards. Marking the value in the corner, putting them in boxes depending on team, year, who won the world series, etc. At one point he had so many cards they filled every closet in the house, all the attic floor space, under every bed... Finally I was tired of tripping over the d**n things and I asked him, "Dad, what are all these stupid cards worth, anyway?" He just shrugged and said, "Whatever someone is willing to pay for them." Dealerships and consumers can ask anything they like for the sale price of a car as there aren't any legal exceptions to markup (with an exception or two as it relates to advertising). Just because something is written on the window doesn't make it the fair number on a car. And as for your response to my comment that customers couldn't care less as to if a sale is a good deal for a salesperson, well, I'll stick by what I said. Show me a customer who, if a salesperson says "Mr. Customer, I know my manager agreed to sell you this car for 10,000, but my commision would be much better if you bought it for 12,000. Do you mind if I increase this a little?", will agree to the higher price. I can assure you no one cares if a salesperson makes a good living or not. More often than not, oddly enough, the salesperson himself rarely cares. All he or she wants to do is close this deal and move on to the next one and doesn't even ask management how much he's making. I agree people more than likely don't walk into a dealer with the sole purpose of taking money out of the salesperson's pocket, but that's only because they're not thinking about the salesperson. They're walking into a business with the express purpose of getting a price as low as it can be and still having someone agree to sell it. They're shopping for their best deal and aren't even a little worried about the guy on the other side of the desk. This is just the nature of the beast. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just stating how I personally perceive it. It's an adversarial relationship between the customer and the salesperson. I see the industry slowly changing to something not quite as much of a 'smoke and mirror' show, so hopefully we'll get to a point where things will be a little more streamlined for everyone.

Michael - I think you raise some very good points in response to Chris's views. I take exception, however, to your assertion that all customers don't care that salespersons have mouths to feed and need to make a living. You may perceive your customer's attitudes as such....but this perceived indifference stems from the whole bargaining process that the car industry started (if you look into the history of car sales you will find how this phenomenon started to be very interesting). I don't think that people walk into dealerships thinking - "I'm going to drive away with a car that leaves the salesperson with zero commission...I bet he'll be evicted this month." People are simply looking to get the best deal on the car that they are looking for. If a dealership is willing to cut into its profit (or the salesperson, as the case may be), then so be it. If someone walks in with an absurd offer (which I'm sure happens quite often)for a car, the dealership need only to say - "Sorry, but we cannot sell you this vehicle for that price." But keep in mind that they are seeking a price on a vehicle...not to wreck someone's financial livlihood. Perhaps you might consider what many dealerships offer people as "fair" trade-in values for their cars. I have traded in 2 cars in my lifetime, and in both instances received far less than I thought I would. I received the same rationale for the price I was given - they were both models that didn't sell well and would sit on the lot for ages. In all likelihood, the dealership (these were separate dealers, by the way) would take a loss by giving me what they offered, but they wanted my business so they were willing to "take a hit." To use one of my experiences as an example, I traded in a 2000 Nissan Xterra and received $11,500 for it. I drove off in my new car and, upon returning for service to repair a defect a month later, found my Xterra sitting on the lot with "Sale of the Week $19,499" on it. Do I blame the dealership for maximizing its profits? No. I know dealerships have overhead and yes, the salesperson has to make a living. But think about what this does to the mindset of the consumer. Of course people are free to sell their car privately...a lesson to be learned after trading-in. I'm all for the dealership and the salesperson to make a sound commision on a sale. Take the above example into consideration, however, and realize, that it is a two-way street. In regards to the original report - if the dealership guaranteed that the car would only have 300 miles on it, then delivery should not have been accepted if it had a couple hundred more. Of course this was up to the buyer's discretion, but it is not unrealistic to assume that the car was going to be shipped to the dealer and thus not incur additional mileage.

That attitude went out of the business in the late 80's and early 90's, Chris. I understand you think you deserve to make more money with less hassle, but it's just plain never going to happen in the car business. Your attitude is antiquated, my friend. You should likely look into doing something else because you're never going to make a living in the car business with an attitude like yours. I've been doing this for 15 years, and over those years, the industry has changed. If every car you're selling is a 'flat', then you can either do one of two things: work harder or leave the business. If you think the customer really cares what you make, or if you have a family to feed, you're deluding yourself. Do you really care when someone sits in front of you with an income of around 20,000 a year and you let them leave with a payment of $500.00 per month? Thirty percent of their monthly income is spent on the car you sold them... do you tell them you don't think that's a very good move financially? When someone buys a car do you call them the following day? You work for Toyota, so I'm going to assume you do. But... why do you call them? Do you call them because you really care if they're happy or because your Sales Manager makes you call them? Your attitude is 'the customer owes me for my time'. You really need to change your thinking if you plan to make a career of this. The customer doesn't owe you a d**n thing, you owe them your attention and your service. I can promise you where you work there's a dealership on either side of your building. Likely there's a Nissan and Honda store up the street a bit. Intrinsically, what you're selling is more or less the same as what Nissan and Honda offer. A Camry, Accord and an Altima are all approximately $21,000. Do you really think your Toyota is so much better than either of the other two products a customer should have to deal with your crappy attitude (to say nothing of your ability to communicate... you should really take a class on how to write)? My first week in the car business over 15 years ago my manager said something I'll never forget. Customers don't drive up and down the highway looking for a car, they drive up and down looking for a car salesman. Maybe if you offer your clients something other than shoddy communication skills and a smarmy attitude, you'll go further in the industry.

some people are never happy listen i sell toyotas, they are independently proven every year to be the best value on the road, and also have one of the smallest mark ups, maybe if you wanted to by that car with no miles you should have a... ordered it and waited for a couple months, or b...took one on the lot because no sales man can garentee miles on a car he can not see. and you know what for what he made on selling you that car and going throught the trouble to get it, which if you payed full msrp was about 300 dollers , and lets be real here for you to waste your time and complain about a car you have no ligitimate problem with he made 100 flat, go give him an extra 100 for wasting his time and while your at it send me a hundered to cause i just sold a car to a customer just like you today, you customers are allways complaining about some thing if its not miles its price, and for anyone to say they bought a car and got ripped off by there salesman is wrong. that sales man has a family too, you dont work for free why should he, besides the tax you pay on cars is prob. 4 times what the dealership makes on you. and again if you fell you got ripped off when buying a new car its prob. cause you bout the wrong car not cause you payed to much, msrp is what the cars worth, you dont ask for a discount when you pay an 800 percent mark up on a drink at resurant do you, of course not, you dont go to the grocery store and ask for discounts on food do you , and finaly for all those people who think say there sales person ripped them off, remember, every doller i take off cost me money, so step in my shoes, when you bring up my invoice cost not only do you insult me, becouse i dont work for free nor do you, but your rippong me off

I am very sorry for the difference of a few hundred miles on the persons vehicle. Myself, I bought a 1996 Toyota Tacoma from Robert Lawson around 1997 or 1998. This truck is a 5 speed. All these years that I have had it and other than regular maintenance, I have only had to replace a starter. I think that is pretty darn good for a vehicle that has almost 100,000 miles on it. I would like for the person who had 700 miles on their vehicle but was told there was 300, to know that they don't need to worry since I was told that if you do regular maintenance to the vehicle, you will have very few repairs, up to sometimes 300,000 miles. I may be able to find out since I haven't had time to look for a newer one that is just like the one I have! This is the best vehicle I ever owned and my niece and sister have had very good luck with there toyota's also. Thank you so much for long lasting Toyota's. Around 1984 I bought a Firenza Oldsmobile here in Cleveland from the Oldsmobile Dealership and it only had around 26 miles on it. I was being towed on an average of at least once a week and had over 39 bills over a period of a year and a half. This included the engined being replaced once, and I the second time it blew up, I just told them to come get it. Toyota's are great!!!!!!!!!!!! Yours truly,

This is truly an amazing post. I have no way of knowing the whole story, but based on your limited posting, what I assume happened was that they located the car you wanted at a dealer in KY, rather than you having to wait for one from the factory. They then looked at the distance between the two locations and told you that the car would have 300 miles on it. Happens all the time.

Upon delivery, the car had 700 miles on it - and you apparently accepted delivery anyway. Very likely it had been test driven by potential buyers at the other dealer. In fact, didn't YOU test drive a car at your dealership? But your dealer would have no way of knowing the miles at any rate. The only way to GUARANTEE miles on a car is to wait for one to be taken off the factory truck.

But regardless of the circumstances, let's just look at raw numbers. The car had 400 more miles on it than you expected. That's true. Fair enough - assuming that Toyota has a decent warranty similar to Nissan or Infiniti (60K miles and 4 years) you just lost .0066 of your warranty. That's 66 hundredths of one percent !!
Are you really expecting to be reimbursed for this amount? If so, ask for a set of floor mats or something. That's more than adequate payment for something they had absolutely no control over. Good lord, get real here!