Complaint Review: Wachovia Bank Atlanta - Lawrenceville Georgia

To Jim: AGAIN, this is about customer service and what is reasonable expectations of responsibility for both the consumer and Wachovia. There was no way for me to properly convey my experience without the additional "ramblings" as you put it. I did not expect to change the banking industry. You must be very naive to believe that someone would think they could. However, rather than reaching out in forums such as these and providing your quasi-expert ruling, perhaps you should stick to your particular area of expertise, whatever that may be-and I hope to God it's not customer service. I wasn't attempting to establish a "case" as much as I was reaching out to get Wachovia's attention, or perhaps some helpful information, such as the last rebuttal. Unfortunately there are very few mediums available in which to do this. Nothing you have said thus far has convinced me that the services that Wachovia has provided in this instance were acceptable. It IS unreasonable for one party to be penalized for their mistakes, but then laugh off the blunders of another simply because they are a large institution. If they intend to be administrators, that's fine, but I did not expect or agree to this level of banking relationship, therefore they should neither be advertising or charging for a providing a level of customer service that they don't offer. The world is based upon change, and automating to a level that customer service falls to the wayside may be fine for you, but your'e right, it's MY money. Wachovia touts customer service, IN WRITING, and that is what they should provide.

Yes I work for Wachovia, so I would like to correct some items her that are wrong. The order for processing is as follows: 1. Deposits/credits for that posting day 2. Debits for that posting day (yes they are largest to smallest) 3. Fees for tha posting day 4. Pending deposits for the next business day (which would be deposits made after cutoff time or direct deposits for that day) As for transfers or any deposit made to your account. please do not spend it until after it is available. Any check or money order MAY be placed on deposit hold. cash & direct deposits are never placed on hold. We do NOT charge OD fees on service fees. Example, if you use a non-Wachovia ATM to withdraw money and that transactions puts your balance into the negative, you will receive an OD fee on the withdrawal but not on the $2 service fee for using the non-Wachovia ATM. The difference in OD fees and NSF fees. If you have an OD fee on your account, that means that something(s) that were paid came through that day that put your bakance into the negative. If you see a NSF fee on your account, that means something(s) that were returned unpaid came through the previous business day. A check for $200 is presented on the 8th when your balance is $150. It is returned unpaid. Your direct deposit or other credit goes in on the 9th and when the posting is done for the 9th you will see your deposit and then the NSF fee. On the email alerts, what level did you set them at? Did you ask to be notified when your account reached or certain balance or how did you set that up? You can contact Wachovia and ask for a code on your account that will allow your Debit card to be authorized only to your available balance. It will not stop all ODs but should cut them down drastically. The reason you may still get an OD is we don't know about checks or automatic debits until they post. So if your available balance on tuesday is $200, you can go buy groceries and spend $125. But if the check you wrote last Friday for $90 comes in, you're going to get fees. This is why keeping a register with ALL transactions is necessary. I hope this information helps.

Yes I work for Wachovia, so I would like to correct some items her that are wrong. The order for processing is as follows: 1. Deposits/credits for that posting day 2. Debits for that posting day (yes they are largest to smallest) 3. Fees for tha posting day 4. Pending deposits for the next business day (which would be deposits made after cutoff time or direct deposits for that day) As for transfers or any deposit made to your account. please do not spend it until after it is available. Any check or money order MAY be placed on deposit hold. cash & direct deposits are never placed on hold. We do NOT charge OD fees on service fees. Example, if you use a non-Wachovia ATM to withdraw money and that transactions puts your balance into the negative, you will receive an OD fee on the withdrawal but not on the $2 service fee for using the non-Wachovia ATM. The difference in OD fees and NSF fees. If you have an OD fee on your account, that means that something(s) that were paid came through that day that put your bakance into the negative. If you see a NSF fee on your account, that means something(s) that were returned unpaid came through the previous business day. A check for $200 is presented on the 8th when your balance is $150. It is returned unpaid. Your direct deposit or other credit goes in on the 9th and when the posting is done for the 9th you will see your deposit and then the NSF fee. On the email alerts, what level did you set them at? Did you ask to be notified when your account reached or certain balance or how did you set that up? You can contact Wachovia and ask for a code on your account that will allow your Debit card to be authorized only to your available balance. It will not stop all ODs but should cut them down drastically. The reason you may still get an OD is we don't know about checks or automatic debits until they post. So if your available balance on tuesday is $200, you can go buy groceries and spend $125. But if the check you wrote last Friday for $90 comes in, you're going to get fees. This is why keeping a register with ALL transactions is necessary. I hope this information helps.

Yes I work for Wachovia, so I would like to correct some items her that are wrong. The order for processing is as follows: 1. Deposits/credits for that posting day 2. Debits for that posting day (yes they are largest to smallest) 3. Fees for tha posting day 4. Pending deposits for the next business day (which would be deposits made after cutoff time or direct deposits for that day) As for transfers or any deposit made to your account. please do not spend it until after it is available. Any check or money order MAY be placed on deposit hold. cash & direct deposits are never placed on hold. We do NOT charge OD fees on service fees. Example, if you use a non-Wachovia ATM to withdraw money and that transactions puts your balance into the negative, you will receive an OD fee on the withdrawal but not on the $2 service fee for using the non-Wachovia ATM. The difference in OD fees and NSF fees. If you have an OD fee on your account, that means that something(s) that were paid came through that day that put your bakance into the negative. If you see a NSF fee on your account, that means something(s) that were returned unpaid came through the previous business day. A check for $200 is presented on the 8th when your balance is $150. It is returned unpaid. Your direct deposit or other credit goes in on the 9th and when the posting is done for the 9th you will see your deposit and then the NSF fee. On the email alerts, what level did you set them at? Did you ask to be notified when your account reached or certain balance or how did you set that up? You can contact Wachovia and ask for a code on your account that will allow your Debit card to be authorized only to your available balance. It will not stop all ODs but should cut them down drastically. The reason you may still get an OD is we don't know about checks or automatic debits until they post. So if your available balance on tuesday is $200, you can go buy groceries and spend $125. But if the check you wrote last Friday for $90 comes in, you're going to get fees. This is why keeping a register with ALL transactions is necessary. I hope this information helps.

I have not spent one day working in the banking industry - though I have spent a lifetime having to deal with them both personally and professionally. I would put you among the several thousand people in this country who need a banking for dummies course. More people in this country throw away their money in NSF fees and they wonder why they're so poor. For example, failure to do simple things like a simple check register cost people who think they're being ripped off hundreds, if not thousands, per month. These same individuals then claim the bank took food off their table. The truth in most cases - they took food off their own table by not exercising something as simple as tracking how you spend your money. Many of the complaints you cite regarding deposit holds have been a part of the banking industry for more years that you have been banking. Nothing you cite in your OP and your subsequent rambling is anything new - and a reason why a banking for dummies course should be a part of your education. For example, you stated: -How does a deposit showing as processing in the AM, manage to have checks and subsequent NSF fees PRECEDE it the following morning? -Does ANYONE consider a $35 NSF fee on transactions under $10 reasonable? That is 350%, and in some instances more, the amount of money they are loaning you. Don't even TRY to say it works the other way around Banks have a limit to their generosity on the determination of whether to pay or return a check. Ours just happens to be items totaling 3 times the NSF fee and no more, unless of course they can spot (or delay) an incoming deposit. -Missing NSF alerts, or the hide-and-seek , then presto-change-o rules for the power of attorney letter 1. A deposit is generally shown as either "pending" - that's how most banks show deposits set to post. However, as already indicated in my response to you, banks post (a) checks first, (b) fees next, and (c) deposits and other credits last. This is part of your agreement with the bank and is policy with your account at Suntrust as well. Credit Unions operate differently because they don't have shareholders to answer to. Each account holder is a shareholder - so the need for making additional profit isn't there. 2. An NSF fee is made to be punitive so people don't overdraw their account. It doesn't matter whether you're buying a $1.00 candy bar or furniture totaling thousands. Each NSF transaction conducted when you don't have any money in the account is a fixed fee. That's why I recommend a CU - because if you happen to post numerous transactions when you don't have money, it will cost you one fixed fee per day. Of course, if you don't replenish the account by the next day, it will cost you another fixed fee, but at least you have control on when to replenish the account. If you can't manage money well, you might try that. 3. The other items you reference is jibberish. It reminds me of the commercial with the different insurance agents having you fill out different forms for the same company and the same insurance. Yes, someone probably messed up with the wrong Power of Attorney form - but that's about it. On the other hand, if you kept a register, you might not need an NSF alert either. -It is, at the very least, unscrupulous for a bank officer to agree to waive fees then later inform me that it was contingent upon our signing new business. Bankers sell services - they are salespeople just like anyone else and they were swinging a deal with you. They're trying to hook you up into more services so that it becomes more difficult for you to leave the banking relationship. When you walk into a bank and you see large signs with all of their services, they're not boasting. They want you to take advantage of the services - period. You may as well have walked into a used-car dealership. The bank is not your friend - they are a business. "After re-reading both my original complaint and this response, I'm now inclined to clarify my stance. This is not about the laws it is about being unreasonable, unfair, and offering ABYSMAL customer service." No, it is about having a better attitude and outlook on your money and you don't have it. The bank has human beings working for them, but they are an impersonal entity. You need to look at your money as yours and how do I safeguard it. How do I keep others from taking it from me? If you want customer service, you'd have better luck finding it at the DMV or the Post Office than at a bank. I mean it happens on occasion, but then a broken clock is right twice a day as well. Banks base their business on agreements, policies and procedures, and statutes designed to regulate them and the people who work there follow those policies to a tee. Fairness has little to do with it. Customer Service extends to the agreements, policy and procedures, and that's it. Do I excuse the banks for poor customer service? Yes, because I don't place customer service as something they offer to account holders. They administer my accounts. That is all they do. You need to get that into your head that your money is yours and it belongs to no one except you. If you spend more than you have, then you're just giving more money to the bank - bottom line. "We have paid thousands for services we that are being withheld from us. Is that not the legal definition of theft?" No, it is not. If you paid thousands in banking fees - you're a fool. Your fees don't go to pay for more employees - those fees are additional income to the bank. If you and 100 account holders like you never have another NSF check, the number of employees doesn't decrease. So those fees do not involve customer service in any way. Those fees are punishment for spending money you don't have. Your sob story is another example of your need for a banking for dummies class. You agreed to pay those fees when you signed up for the account. Accordingly, thievery involves an involuntary conversion of your assets. You gave them your own money up in a voluntarily way by overdrawing the account. Take some responsibility for your money. No one else will!!

Thanks for the suggestion on the CUs, Jim. I'll definitely look into it. So exactly how long have you worked in the banking industry? Apparently I failed to state my case dispassionately enough that is the only conclusion I can draw as to why I would have scored the banking for dummies rebuttal posted here. Yes, we are aware of these facts, which is the sole reason we have not dumped Wachovia thus far. All banks are basically the same, agreed. I'm confident, though, that were we discussing JIM's money and were Jim sustaining his life on a $40 candy bar, which hours later became a $110 candy bar, and then a $150 candy bar..repeatedly, he would tire of it just as quickly as we. I don't believe that I accused computers of being conspiratorial that's just silly. But I do feel that any company utilizing such means is not above human review based on reason. And call me old-fashioned, but I think $35 a pop, compounded exponentially at an astronomical rate, should buy me a personalized, human explanation and at least a modicum of customer service. My complaint is not unique, but based upon the poorest of customer service. In true evasive banker fashion, Jim glossed over my most specific points; -Mellon's site states that it takes 2-3 days for a transfer to appear on my account. Even being conservative, it should not take an additional two days to post to my account. And exactly how does one obtain detailed information on funds transfers? -How does a deposit showing as processing in the AM, manage to have checks and subsequent NSF fees PRECEDE it the following morning? -Does ANYONE consider a $35 NSF fee on transactions under $10 reasonable? That is 350%, and in some instances more, the amount of money they are loaning you. Don't even TRY to say it works the other way around Banks have a limit to their generosity on the determination of whether to pay or return a check. Ours just happens to be items totaling 3 times the NSF fee and no more, unless of course they can spot (or delay) an incoming deposit. -Missing NSF alerts, or the hide-and-seek , then presto-change-o rules for the power of attorney letter -It is, at the very least, unscrupulous for a bank officer to agree to waive fees then later inform me that it was contingent upon our signing new business. After re-reading both my original complaint and this response, I'm now inclined to clarify my stance. This is not about the laws it is about being unreasonable, unfair, and offering ABYSMAL customer service. INTENT is the watchword here. No, technically you probably can't label these scurvy tactics as illegal. When banks hide behind and point fingers at computers as being the true culprits, as Jim has done, consumers can do nothing. Because you can't prove malicious intent from a computer. Hell, Wachovia employees won't even muster the integrity to speak with us for fear it will offend their delicate sensibilities. And as long as they don't speak with consumers personally, intent to defraud can't be determined. We can all just pretend these are simple mistakes. Or miscommunications. And mistakes are not actionable, right Jim? I know -The computer did it. The crux of the problem, however, is this; it is not a machine that is spending MY money. I am supposed to be a CUSTOMER. Is this how Wachovia treats customers? I did not sign up for an account with some nameless, faceless electronic clearinghouse. Consumers CHOOSE to do business with local banks capable of fair, reasonable, and personalized service. That is certainly and clearly NOT what we have received, nor what we paid Wachovia for. In this context, yes, we have been ripped off. We have paid thousands for services we that are being withheld from us. Is that not the legal definition of theft? As long as Wachovia and other banks can avoid accountability, and are allowed to twist and mangle federal laws to maximize THEIR profits without regard to fairness or reason, and people such as Jim condone it, we consumers are expected to simply swallow the spoonfuls of bullcrap they feed us, confident we can do nothing. A thief by any other name.

Many of the items you discuss as 'things we've seen' are things computers do - not humans. Computers don't do things in a conspiratorial manner. They do nothing but process transactions, and they've been programmed to: 1. Process all debits first in descending dollar order, per your agreement with them. 2. Process all their fees next. 3. Process all credits and deposits last. Nothing you've posted so far seems like the bank did anything wrong. In fact, some of the transactions as you describe them seem to correspond exactly to Federal Law requirements, so I'm not so convinced I see rip-off here. You get an NSF fee for the same amount regardless of the transaction. If you buy a candy bar with a debit card and you're already overdrawn - whamo that candy bar cost you almost $40. You will only get an NSF fee if the dollar amount in your account is less than zero - not if the balance is low. Again, it's all computerized and the computer knows to properly hit you for an NSF when your balance is in the red. It is what it is. Holding deposits is the bank's right and a requirement under Federal Law to protect banks against those who would con a bank. These laws have been on the books for as long as I can remember and the holds used to be longer (well over a week), so a 2-3 day turnaround is far better than what it was, though the bank has the right to hold a deposit for a week if there is a problem with the deposit. I have had deposits held for over 2 weeks before the deposits cleared...... NSF by mail is a requirement as well. If you have online banking, it's there as well so you would know when it happens. The snail-mail is for your written records. The courts have already determined the issues you question in the bank's favor per the agreements they have with their customers, so a lawsuit is out. If you want some really good advice, drop both banks (Wachovia and Suntrust) and switch over to a CU. You'll find the number of NSF's drop and they post in order of when something is received, not in $ order. Best of luck.