Complaint Review: Western Outdoor Adventures LLC - Meeker Colorado

I am very pleased to report that my original complaints about Western Outdoor Adventures LLC have been satisfactorily resolved.  Western Outdoor Adventures has worked to improve the hunting lodge as evidenced by the pictures on their website and the improvements are significant. 

Western has also clarified the hunting opportunities to my satisfaction.  I appreciate the way in which Western addressed my earlier complaints and I would recommend their services to any prospective hunters.  

This complaint from the SC man seems to me to be inaccurate and unfounded.  Any type of complaint or grievance must state a wrong and seek a cure.  This one doesn't. This man's apparent rambleing appears to me to be from a very rookie hunter, who has no concept of western mule deer hunting. He was totally inaccurate on many of his points.

I'm 70 years old, have hunter for over 57 years and have killed over 100 deer in the USA and Canada. I have had many unsuccessful hunts, but not for being unprepared. i hunted with this outfitter about 2 weeks prior to him in the same old farm house.  I guess that he doesn't know how to operate a simple pellet stove!  I ran that stove for a week w/no issues.  Yes, they get clogged, but any idiot can fix that.  It was clean, warm and my complaint is that there was too much food and drink!  Wow! I gained 5 pounds.

This is open range mule deer hunting; not tree stand hunting for a whitetail.  You go out to 'seek and kill' the animal; snow or no snow.  Jeff puts safety first and with snow it becomes dangerous to drive around that ranch.  Weather, time of year, rut and hunter ability predicate what results will be achieved.  I saw 130 deer in 1 1/2 days w/over 15 being shooters on that exact property.  Weather will keep them bedded down as will the rut, when the big bucks are moving at night. We had 4 of 6 hunters kill deer the first morning.  Mine was the smallest  at 155"  The others were about 160" to 175".  Jeff and I  helped a DAV hunter with cancer and on dialiasis, get a super buck!  Jeff was intent that this 70 year old Army vet get a great deer.  He was elated!

 I suggest the rookie SC hunter get some western hunting education and get better than Dollar Store binos!  If he expects a 200"+ buck - guarneteed - he better go to a high fence outfitter! 

 These are pics are deer that were harvested on the same property that Daniel La Morte hunted while he was with us during his stay. But remember he said there was no deer bigger than 120-135

Hey Jeff!

I would like to sincerely thank you, Shey, your boys and your staff for a truly exciting and successful mule deer hunt on October 20th!  In my 57 years of hunting, I have never been so impressed with the quality, organization and detail of your operation.

It was by far not just luck or a chance happening that 4 of 6 mule deer hunters at my ranch location tagged-out on day one with the other 2 having had shot opportunities.  I have learned over the years that many many little details combine in making a trophy opportunity a common occurrence.  You have the finest ranches, with many of your guides living on those ranches; watching the deer all year long. You have outstanding equipment and communication with each other.  Your properties are not over hunted and lastly your dedication to provide the greatest results possible for your hunters is priceless!

I saw over 130 deer in one- and one-half days on one ranch.  About 15 of them being ‘shooters’ (150” or better).  It’s nice to have choices!  I was so impressed with your commitment.  After taking my buck; you said to me – “I have a DAV hunter who needs to get a good buck – lets go help them”.  We did and the result was outstanding.  He shot and exceptional buck and couldn’t stop smiling all day!!  A memory that will last him (and me) for the rest of our lives.

Please feel free to give my phone number to anyone who wants information or a recommendation from one of your hunters.  I will be back next year!

Tom

Hey Jeff,

Just wanted to say thanks again for a once in a lifetime hunt.  To get such a great animal was more than I could have ever hoped for!  Never dreamed in a million years that I would have an opportunity at an animal of that quality.  Still can’t believe it.  On top of that the accommodations and food were both excellent!  I could not have asked for more.

How did the other hunters end up doing?  Any more success throughout the week?

Take Care,

 Matt 

1. Accomodations

1a. This old dilapadated farm house was not occupied.  The owner moved into Meeker.  Prior to the electric outage, the pellet stove only worked intermittently.  Because the heat was not constant, the building was cold.  There was virtually no heat in the upstaris bedroom and the hunter who occupied that bedroom left after two days.  The place was dirty.  Windows were dirty, screens broken and hanging from their supports, obvious outside damage that was not repaird.

1b. We were not moved to the Elk Lodge.  We were moved to a Deer Lodge about 40 minutes away.  We were moved there only after there was no heat, no electricity, no hot water, no generator, and no working space heater.  Jeff Musgrove could not be reached because he was hunting.  The simple solution to a power outage is to have a backup generator, especially in remote farm areas susceptible to power outages.

1c. Even after the electric was restored, there was no hot water.  The morning that we left, there was still no hot water. 

1d. There was one electric heater in the kitchen.  The bedrooms were literally freezing.  I could actually see my breath, it was so cold.  I had to wear a wool tossle cap to bed.  The reason why the pellet stove had to be manually fed was because the system was clogged.  Pellet stoves are gravity fed.  The gravity feed didn't work because the stove was clogged.  Eventually,  the stove stopped working altogether.  The repairman simply cleaned the system and heat was restored.  Jeff Musgrove never inspected or tested this pellet stove before he had hunters occupy this old farmhouse.

1e. The hunter who left after 1 day did so because he was completely frustrated with living conditions and hunting conditions.  This gentleman paid almost $6000 and also paid extra for a 1 on 1.  I can't imagine anyone paying that much money and leaving after one day.  He never mentioned a 200' buck.  He left because it was obvious that there were no deer even in the 160'-180' range as advertised on the website.

1f. There are no pictures of this deer lodge on Western Outdoor Adventures website because Jeff Musgrove is ashamed to show it.  In fact, there are no pictures of any deer lodge on the website.  When you click on "deer lodge pictures" on the website, you get a blank page.  There are no pictures.  Jeff Musgrove said that the pictures were being update by the website designer - that was in November, 2018.  This is February, 2019 and there are still no pictures of any deer lodge.  I checked with several website designers about how long it takes to update pictures - they all said that it takes about 5 minutes.

2. Hunting success

2a. 2 of 5 hunters did not have have shot opportunities.  If they had opportunities, they would have shot a deer.  Why would a hunter not shoot a buck if he had the opportunity?

2b. In Jeff Musgroves rebuttal, he states that the website advertises deer averaging 150"-170".  If you look under his answer to 2h below, he states that the website advertises deer averaging 160"-180".  So which is it?  There were 5 hunters in the old farm house.  3 hunters shot deer.  We scored all 3 deer.  We actually had a tape measure.  These deer scored in the 130"-135" range. 

2c. The deer that I saw the first day of the hunt was a 2x3 - not even close to a 150" deer.  I said that I would shoot that deer if I saw him on the last day because by then I would be so frustated at not seeing a decent buck that I would, out of desparation, shoot thiat little 2x3 buck. Who, in their right mind, would pay almost $6000 for a 2x3 mule deer or for a an old management buck when the deer average 160"-180" ( or is it 150"-170") or is it actually 130"-135" as was actually measured.

2d. So, all prospective hunters with WOA, remeber that if it snows you cannot hunt in any area which requires a vehicle.  This is because Jeff Musgrove won't spend the money to have any damaged trail repaired in the spring.  It is easier to restrict hunter access to the trails and blame it on Mother Nature.  While we didn't lose hunting time, we lost hunting access - so we did not have access to 16,000 acres as the website advertises..  We were able to cover a lot more territory from a vehicle than we were on foot.  This limited our any already small opportunity to see a 160"-180" (or is it 150"-170").

2e. On the last day, we saw a small buck ( probably 125").  I wanted to shoot that buck because by then I was completely frustrated.  Our guide, Danny Renner, asked me to wait until he called Jeff Musgrove.  By the time he contacted Jeff Musgrove the deer disappeared.  Turns out that Musgrove didn't want thaqt deer shot because it would grow up and be a bigger deer next year (get the picture prospective hunters?).  There were other occasions where a similar scenario played out.

2f. My son-in-law shot a 130" deer.  After we tracked and found that deer, the first thing that our guide did was call Jeff Musgrove to advise that a small buck was shot.  It was then that Musgrove threatened our guide with a $6000 fine.  Our guide, Danny Renner, was a fine man.  He was 69 years old. It was then that Danny Renner advised us that he was resigning.

2g. Danny Renner and his wife Mae were wonderful people.  They tried their best to make our hunt enjoyable despite the horrendous conditions.  Mae and Danny moved into our old farmhouse for the last evening, after the heat and electricity were restored.  Fortunately, Mae was not there earlier in the hunt when we had all the problems.  So yes, I was very negative about the living conditions and the lack of hunting conditions.

2h. Again, in Jeff Musgrove's rebuttal, he states that the website advertises deer averaging 150"-170".  If you look under his answer to 2h, he states that the website advertises deer averaging 160"-180".  So which is it?  There were 5 hunters in the old farm house.  3 hunters shot deer.  We scored all 3 deer.  We actually had a tape measure.  These deer scored in the 130"-135" range. Two hunters did not have opportunities to shoot even a 130"-135" deer, because if they did, they would have shot those deer.  Again, if you pay almost $6000 for a supposed opportunity to shoot a 160"-180" deer, why wouldn't you take the shot?  Answer:  Because there wasn't the opportunity.

2i. The two hunters from Texas and Oklahome shot deer that scored 130"-135" on the advice of Jeff Musgrove - we know because we scored those deer.  

Answers to the complaint from Daniel La Morte

1a: This lodge is an older home but very clean and nice. It sleeps six hunters. 2 per room.  The lodge is located at 1928 County Road 34 Meeker Colorado 81641. Its on one of our deer leases. The area had a blackout do to the WREA Electric Co equipment. There is no back up generator on site. The heat at that time was not electric it was a pellet stove, but the fan was electric. The hot water heater was electric.

1b: At the time of the power outage, we moved Daniel La Monte and his son in law over to our Main Lodge for a day so they could stay warm and conformable until WREA Electric Co got the problem fixed. The location of our Elk Lodge is 20 minutes and 10 miles away from where they were staying. Once the problem was fixed, we moved them back out there as we had another group coming into the Elk Lodge for an elk hunt.

1c: When the power came back on the hot water breaker was still tripped and the land owner who we lease from immediately called the electric company and the water pump company to fix the issue.

1d:  Before the power outage, the pellet stove had to be refilled every few hours, like a wood stove.  There were also electric heaters plugged in in some rooms. 

1e:  The hunter who left early did so because he wanted a 200+ buck, which has never been advertised by us.  Once he realized chances were very slim, he left.  This was all before the power outage occurred. He was only there one night, as he also came to the lodge 2 days late due to personal reasons. 

1f:  The pictures of the deer lodge were being updated by our website designer, as we had recently acquired this lodge.  These hunters were told this when they arrived and so rudely asked if they were expected to eat in that house. 

2:  Hunting Success:

2a: Our website advertises a 100% opportunity and which we have been for the last 4 years. If someone doesn’t take home a deer, that is their decision.

2b: The website advertises that we normally take deer from the avg size ranging from 150”-170” with an occasional chance at a bigger buck.  We had eight deer hunters in the time frame of November 2nd thru November 6th and 6 of those hunters all shot deer within 150”- 175” range or a management buck that was going to have to be taken out of our program and that the hunter was happy with their harvest. We do not tell the hunters what deer they must shoot. We tell them what our ranges are to kill unless it is a management buck.

2c. Daniel La Monte did have plenty of opportunities to take a nice management buck or even a mule deer buck that scored over 150”. He saw one on the first day of his hunt and told our guide Danny Renner that if he were to see that deer on the last day of his hunt, he would like to shoot it. It was explained to him Daniel La Monte that we wouldn’t do that as the deer are rutting and may not be around on the last day. So, he understood that, so he passed and never saw anything else that he liked, but he did see over 100 deer a day with us throughout our 16,000 acres he got to hunt. His son in law that was hunting with him choose to shoot an older management buck during his hunt.

Outfitter makes no guarantees as to success on the Hunt or trophy size animals harvested.

This was in the contract also that he signed:

2d: During Daniel La Monte’s hunt we got snow and I did tell the guides that if the roads were unsafe and muddy do not drive on them as we will tear them up bad and that is in our lease that will not tear up the landowner’s ground and respect it as if it was our own. 

This is what our contracts states that he signed before the hunt:

Outfitter is not responsible for hunt interruptions, notwithstanding the fact that circumstances, including but not limited to weather or other acts of God, government action, illness, equipment failure, or other factors beyond the Outfitters control, which may prevent travel, hunting, and packing into or out of hunting areas.

He did not lose any hunting time or days, instead of driving they walked throughout the private land hunting deer.

2e: Danny Renner is a 4-year guide for WOA is a very knowledgeable guide and hunter. He and all the guides call me and brief me on all deer movement and road and weather conditions on all grounds. If there is something that they need an answer on, then they call me. They are paid very well and Shey and I never question their ability to do their job. Daniel La Monte never lost an opportunity to shoot a deer. He chose not to shoot.

2f. We never told any guide he or she would be charged $6000.00 fine for shooting the wrong deer. Now there have been some deer mysteriously taken outside of our ranges and we do talk to our guides about that, but no one has or ever will be fined, because mistakes happen.

2g: Daniel La Monte and his son in law’s guide Danny Renner has been with us for four years and his wife Mae Renner is one of our cooks and he stated he never told Daniel La Monte this and the only stress Danny Renner had was trying to please Daniel La Monte and his son in law in which was very hard to do. Mae Renner told my wife Shey that Daniel was the most negative person/hunter they had ever been around.

2h: Once again the website does advertise that we normally avg 160”-180”, but in this case 8 hunters (5 at the house mentioned, and 3 on this same hunt/same dates/same ground were staying in a smaller bunk house down the road) , with 6 deer taken all scoring over 150”.  Two hunters choose not to shoot anything but had opportunities.

2i: I Jeff Musgrave did guide two hunters myself one being from Atlanta and one from Texas. Just like everyone else in the camp a 200” buck would be nice. They passed on several nice bucks too but when they heard that the weather was coming in, they chose to shoot two bucks around the 150”-160” range because they wanted to leave early and beat the storm. Once again, they were never told what and when to shoot, they chose to shoot those deer.