Complaint Review: Ash Industries; Todd Ash - Tucson Arizona

If your looking for Todd Ash, check Arizona with his brother Tris, or maybe at his mothers home in Las Vegas NV.  You could write him a letter at 8243 Horseshoe Bend Lane, Las Vegas NV 89113.  Its really sad that with all the opportunities this silver spoon trust fund child had, that he ended up such a loser.  His parents made a mint in Virginia and Kansas and moved to Las Vegas.  Todd on the other hand just failed at everything he did.  The true example of someone that just sucks at life.  Anyways, almost everything that is posted on his sites from Billionaire or Trident is probably his brother Tris, who is a sad representation of another silver spoon child that could have had everything, but screwed it up too.  His family has rental companies, oil producing trusts and such and these two children couldnt make a dime on anything.  The apple and orange fell quite far from this tree.  It is amazing how these two men could screw up with their failing internet scams and scamming utility and environment saving ideas.  Believe me, they would take a dollar from anyone if it meant their scam could continue another day. And just for the record, they dont have the money to even file a court case, so dont worry about their so called claims to prosecution and such...believe me, they dont have the gas money to put in their water logged washed up benz to drive down to the court house to file :) 

Instead of replying here, Todd Ash (falsely representing himself as consumer Billionaire) has started a new thread (http://ripoffreport.com/reports/0/404/RipOff0404913.htm), accusing me of all sorts of nonsense. See also my response at that page. Chris

Once again, I feel there is a need to respond to the latest post by Todd Ash (aka Billionaire) because, as usual, there are a number of things to correct, clarify, or comment on. As James Stein said above, Ash "always fails to provide real actual proof of what he says". Todd Ash is the owner of advertisingandselling but continues to falsely represent himself here as a user/consumer of this program.

If advertisingandselling "has been sold and is a matter of public record", where is the evidence? According to whois, advertisingandselling is still owned by Todd Ash (http://www.who.is/whois-com/ip-address/advertisingandselling.com/). Further, he is still trying to sell it through godaddy for $50,000 where the current end date is 2 January 2009 (https://auctions.godaddy.com/trpItemListing.aspx?ci=1136&miid=11837248). I don't believe advertisingandselling has been sold. I don't think anyone would buy it.

I can't speak for what James Stein is or isn't. All I've done is to report what he has said to me, with his permission (see my previous post). However, when I Google "James Stein" with turnkey setup and scam, and similar, there are very few hits - mainly a handful referring to an alleged $7,000 scam (posted by Todd Ash?), including a youtube post (by Todd Ash?; it's his style, and it contains a lot of the words, phrases and clauses he uses) that has been there since mid 2007 and has attracted 581 views but no one has added a comment.

I'm not sure if good things said by one network marketer about another network marketer necessarily shows that the latter is a good person. At least one of the four guys Todd Ash mentions has been in serious trouble with the law. Another has become rather hot under the collar, including name calling, trying to defend his reverse funnel system against people who are saying it's a scam (http://www.gator-byte.com/2007/10/reverse-funnel-system-scam/). There are many adverse comments on all four of them and their programs. However, there are plenty of favourable comments too. But these usually tend to come from people who have bought into these schemes and are promoting them like mad by various means to recruit more members. Network marketing or multi-level marketing (MLM) is a dodgy industry. It's well known that the only people who make money are the owners of the various schemes and sometimes those at or near the top of the chain, while the vast majority lose. Basically, MLM is all about a few people making large or moderate amounts of money and many people losing small amounts of money. Often there is really no product involved in these schemes, or if there is it's often merely window dressing or can be hard to find. In these cases, nothing is actually being produced. Funds are simply transferred up the line, leaving the vast majority of participants out of pocket. Everyone can't become rich from these schemes - it's mathematically impossible. Reason: money doesn't grow on trees. Promotional material on these schemes tends to be long on hype and short on substance.

Contrary to what Todd Ash keeps saying, I'm not trying to make the internet work for me (I earn my income from other sources), although I do have a bit of a look (and a laugh) from time to time at some of the crazy programs and the rhetoric of their owners. This is the first time I've been here in quite a while. I am here to report how I was ripped off by Todd Ash through advertisingandselling when I was dabbling in a bit of affiliate marketing back in 2006, and as a warning to others to avoid internet money making schemes as few benefit and most lose, whether it's MLMs, cash gifting, web surfing (where the money will always run out sooner or later; usually sooner), paid to click sites, typing at home / data entry, reading emails, stuffing envelopes, or whatever. I've read in several places that an estimated 95-97% of internet money making programs and schemes are scams (I'd say it's closer to 100%). Watch out for all the fake review sites too (often the source of the 97% or thereabouts claims), saying this or that program or handful of programs are the ones to use and all the others don't pay or are useless (the other 97%); some of these sites recommend one or two programs that might include an MLM scheme, or a couple that basically introduce the purchaser to Clickbank and Adwords, which you can do for free anyway. These sites are put together by the owners of the schemes, and maybe sometimes affiliates, and are simply a marketing ploy. But people live in hope that there is some magical internet program out there that will generate them large amounts of easy money; there isn't (except for the owners).

Todd Ash accuses me of being negative. It's got nothing to do with being negative; it has more to do with reality. The only person who is looking bad here is Todd Ash. He is the one trying to gain exposure all over the net. The more posts he makes here, the greater the number of web pages unfavourable to him that can be found by people doing web searches on "Todd Ash" and advertisingandselling and scam or rip-off etc etc. The other reason Todd Ash is blasted all over the internet is due to self-promotion, including a large number of network marketing articles he has written to numerous article sites. I am not trying to be "somebody" on the internet or anywhere else; if that makes me a "nothing" who doesn't know anything, then that's fine; but Ash comes up with a lot of odd comments and strange assumptions. I have degrees in economics (honours) and management/marketing (masters) and have worked in both the real world and government, and as a consultant to both, for a long time. Perhaps if I ran a traffic exchange site, neglected it and its members, and didn't pay them, I'd be "somebody" and be back in the loop. I should also point out that the Alexa ranking for toddash.com remains on the wrong side of three million. This is hardly a big deal or reason to be called "somebody". Advertisingandselling.com has fallen steadily over the last two years, to a ranking of 9.5 million, advertisingandselling.net to 16.2 million, and advertisingandselling.biz to 7.9 million. The only reason Todd Ash (and others) can run these and other schemes is because most people have proper jobs and earn real money that allows them to (unfortunately) buy into these schemes.

I checked out the legality of Todd Ash's use of the name Ash Industries with the Arizona Secretary of State office. They replied as follows: "In Arizona there is no legal requirement to register a DBA, it is done at the discretion of the individual or legal entity as a matter of public record. A search of our records did not reveal a registration for 'Ash Industries'." This isn't the norm. Most places require a DBA (doing business as; some jurisdictions use "trading as" or "operating as") statement, the benefits being to protect consumers and to guard against two businesses using the same name and the obvious confusion this can result in. Using a DBA usually requires that the name doesn't contain the legal name of the owner. On this basis, it's still possible that Todd Ash uses the name Ash Industries illegally (unless it's different in Arizona). I also note that Ash uses Todd Ash Inc. A search of the Arizona Corporation Commission listings found no organisation called Todd Ash Inc as a trade name, corporation or LLC. To use "Inc.", an organisation must be a legal corporation (i.e. you can't say you're incorporated if you're not). But regardless of all this, when I Google "Todd Ash" and "Ash Industries", all I get are five hits, all of which are unfavourable. Two relate to this site; one goes to Ventrino Forum which has a lot of adverse posts on Ash and advertisingandselling; and the other two go to the (((Redacted)))

The Ventrino site (http://forum.ventrino.com/index.php?act=Print&client=wordr&f=18&t=2345) is quite revealing (I had to use the html version). The first post, by Allbusiness (2 May 2006), says the following: "I hate to be messenger of bad news. But you should be aware that there is a company taking advantage of its paid members. It took 14 emails, and some not-so-kind-words, before they finally made a very very lame reason (your account is under investigation for having multiple accounts) why they not paying me the $351.00 that they own me. I come to find out that they have used these tactics on other members as a mean of not paying their members. How in the heck is it benefiting anyone to have multiple accounts where you have to paid? There is absolutely no benefits, except for them - they get more money. This was the best they could do, I guess. Participate at your own risk. The company is www.AdvertisingandSelling.com. Here are the other companies that they own and operate: www.exposemywebsite.com, interactivetrafficexchange.com, Seaching.com, SellingandAdvertising.com. I could go on-and-on, but I'm exhausted dealing with these crooks. It are companies like these which make our jobs a lot harder. BTW: I have proof if you need it." [advertisingandselling.com became advertisingandselling.net later in 2006]

Another person, savvyinvestor (2 May 2006), says: "At least they reply to your emails. They just ignored me and wipedout my withdraw history. $350 gone. They were pretty sneaky too. At first they set the withraw at $50 when I got close they increase it to $100, then 150, all the way up to $350. These jokers had no intention of paying. Lying cheating bastards."

Having "multiple accounts" was one of the things Todd Ash accused me of too (in October 2006) when he got fed up with me chasing up payment (see earlier posts). I doubt he paid anyone. How many people are involved, only Ash would know. At one stage he was boasting of over 25,000 users (email to members dated 22 July 2006). I don't think it would have been anywhere near this number. Judging by the number of sites on advertisingandselling around that time (there were 413 paid to clicks on 8 July) and you had to have a url to be a member, he may have had up to a few hundred members; it may have been less because a proportion of members would have had more than one url on the site; you can currently have up to 10. I can only assume that Todd Ash hasn't got the money to pay members. If he's doing as well as he makes out, he would surely pay members rather than leave himself open to adverse comments in various forums, which is hardly the publicity he would be looking for as someone who seems to be seeking fame and fortune through the web.

The Ventrino Forum page also has posts by myself, James Stein and others.

The C(((Redacted)))was listing Ash Industries (and Todd Ash) in a list of companies suspected of fraudulent practices, at (((Redacted))) but the mention is now at (((Redacted))). I see Todd Ash has posted there, in response to my post. I will respond to this another time. Further, Todd Ash's Ash Industries is listed as a "suspicious company", at ((Redacted)))

For other sites with adverse comments on Todd Ash and advertisingandselling, see my second post, above.

I can find no evidence that Todd Ash is a director, president, ceo, etc of any Fortune 500 company or any other business apart from his own websites. One of these looks like it might be a real business, http://www.hydrogenoperated.com. I was going to congratulate Todd on this and wish him well. However, I decided I should first have a closer look. When you Google the phone number at the top of the home page (1 877 476 9172), you not only find that website, but also a whole bunch of other sites offering a reverse funnel system free phone consultation with Todd Ash, some of which include his home videos. Thus this business has no separate phone number, but shares one with an MLM related scheme. Scroll down and you see a photo of a nice factory or workshop. But somehow it doesn't look right. It looks like it's sitting on the back of a platform, with a background of virgin bush that just doesn't look real. The brickwork is fuzzy, yet the business name is quite clear. Also, the camera is not looking at that part of the building front-on but at an angle of perhaps about 45 degrees. The letters of the business name should therefore be much thinner in appearance at this angle. Thus it looks like the name has been added to the picture. The two trees either side of the front door don't look real either; their edges are too sharp and they're a funny unnatural shape. These may have been added in too. There is some funny smudgy stuff around the Think Green sign too. "Think Green" is actually a registered trademark of an organisation called Waste Management (see http://www.thinkgreen.com). Todd Ash might be committing trademark infringement here and may need to check this out. Anyway, the photo just below it, of the inside, shows two large doors next to each other that can only be at the back of the building, but the outside shot doesn't seem to show a way of getting round there; it may have been erased to allow for the bush background. Further the business name on the wall of the inside photo is clearly crooked, running downhill, and the pattern on the wall looks fuzzy around this area. Thus it looks like the name might have been added to this photo too.

What's more there's no address given for this building, and no address given anywhere on the website. A search of the Arizona Corporation Commission gives two addresses for Hydrogen Generated LLC: a residential one and an agent/physical address. Google Street View shows that the latter is in a busy commercial district in Tucson and is nothing like the website photo, so it must be an agent address. Thus no physical address is given anywhere. Nor is there a name of a person on this site. "Todd Ash Inc." appears near the bottom of the privacy policy page (see above for discussion on this name). Most of the purchase agreement is the same as that of the Internet Law Compliance centre, word for word, and I'm checking with them to see that Ash has sought and obtained permission to use it. He boasts of thousands of customers from over 90 countries (which I can't believe) and the site includes the Australian flag among others. This must be the Australian connection in his post above. You have to order through Paypal and receive a kit in the mail. The whole thing just doesn't add up. I wonder if Todd Ash just buys these kits from somewhere and onsells them for a profit, all done from the back room at home. I'd be surprised if he's sold more than 1 or 2 of these things, partly because of the product itself and partly because of the whole set up he uses to market them. The Alexa ranking of the site is close to 1 million and I'd say it would be attracting more curiosity visitors than anyone else. By the way, I've read that the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is after those promoting this stuff.

There are numerous web comments criticising this sort of product, and quite a few supporting it. I came across an interesting and revealing web page about this business of Todd Ash's at (((redacted))). Following a few posts rather sceptical of the product, Ash hops in pretending to be a customer, just like here, and uses the name Billionaire, again just like here, and says the product is excellent, etc, etc, the same as he said of advertisingandselling above. He says the product is backed by a Fortune 500 company. This must be the Fortune 500 connection Ash mentions above. Anyway, more sceptical posts from different people follow, and Ash gets quite hot under the collar with them. They come back laughing with more posts and there's plenty of name calling and mud slinging on both sides (Ash angrily; others in jest). At one stage, he forgets himself and puts down another poster as a "9-5er". (If Todd Ash really did have a proper business, he'd be working 9-5 and probably much longer.) Ash then comes back as another customer, Dr.HHO.phd (I'm laughing out loud by now), and proceeds to spin a story and then blast anyone and everyone who dares to question the product. (It can only be Todd again - the style, word choice, syntax, punctuation, tone, etc are too close to Billionaire's to be anyone else; Billionaire = Todd Ash = Dr.HHO.phd.) Next day he comes back again as Billionaire. Then there are a few more interesting posts by others. You'd think that if Todd Ash had thousands of customers, he'd be able to find 2 or 3 happy to defend/endorse the product rather than having to resort to pretending to be two customers himself. He doesn't seem to like to post as himself.

I'm amused by the analogy between McDonald's and dodgy internet schemes. At McDonald's, you get something in return for your money, you know exactly what you're getting, the service is good, they have been there a long time, and they are stable. It seems that McDonald's is everything that internet money making schemes aren't. Perhaps the point of comparison is junk food and junk internet programs.

I'm not sure who's off to prison and who's avoiding prison in the internet industry. I had a look at the North Carolina public records but didn't find anything on James Stein; much of it requires payment though. Various Google searches didn't turn up anything about any class action against him either. And Todd Ash is the loser again, because when I Google "James Stein" and "class action", I find nothing on any class action brought against Stein apart from Ash's mention here which happens to be second in the list of search results and is headed up Rip-off Report: Ash Industries; Advertisingandselling.net, .com ..., this very web page, with all the adverse comments on Todd Ash and advertisingandselling. James Stein doesn't seem to know anything about this issue and doesn't live in North Carolina.

Somehow Todd Ash is a member of HONESTe Online. It says to "view/post customer comments for this HONESTe Online member", so I did, on 27 September 2008, as follows:

"I find it ironic that Todd Ash is a member of Honesteonline. I was a paid member of his advertisingandselling.net paid-to-click traffic site in 2006. The site promised payment of $350 when that threshold was reached. I reached it three times but never received a cent. There was little or no support from admin and many clicks were broken. In the end, I contacted BBB of Southern Arizona. Ash responded with nonsense that I violated the can spam act, phished, and had multiple accounts. BBB is still after basic information from Ash. For quite some time, he was trying to sell the site on ebay for millions, although it wouldn't be worth anything. He claims to have sold advertisingandselling for $5.5 million, yet several months later he is still listed as the owner and is still trying to sell it at godaddy for $50,000. I believe he uses the name Ash Industries illegally. See http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/350/RipOff0350382.htm for further insights into Todd Ash where he pretends to be a customer and has posted three times. He will probably deny any wrongdoing and will make up stories."

Within hours, Todd Ash emailed me the following angry response. I'm not sure what he means by the first sentence; it's quite clear in my post that I was complaining about Todd Ash and advertisingandselling rather than about some other site of his that he happens to have with HONESTe Online, and any complaints about an individual would not have to be restricted to this other site, which happens to be http://www.hydrogenoperated.com. I wasn't going to mention it here, in fairness to Ash, until I did some research into it, above. The phone number on his honesteonline page (5208296028) is the same as the one used on the whois page for advertisingandselling.com, along with other contact information for Todd Ash.

"Hello, AdvertisingandSelling.com has nothing to do with the site you are complaining about.You are way out of line Chris and if your actions continue to be menacing I will bring Legal Action Against You In Australia As Well As ,New York City, Tucson,Arizona and Los Angeles, California. You will be required to show up for each court hearing and if you fail to appear you will be found guilty of the charges I bring against you.My legal team is ready to move on this if your actions persist.Slandering my name,in this case is a Federal offence. This is not the forum to discuss AdvertisingandSelling.com . I never took any money from you and you never paid any money directly to me,and you could never prove that you did.Anyway stay out of my way or I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT ! Todd Ash"

I replied to him on 28 September 2008 as follows:

"Todd, I didn't like the threatening nature of your email via Honesteonline. I have done nothing wrong. By the way, I have an email from you dated 18 March 2006 with subject of "Deposit notification": "Hello, A deposit in the amount of $84.00 has been made to your account and is readily available.Thank you for using our sevice. http://www.AdvertisingandSelling.com Thank You. Staff" Also, I have an email from Stormpay dated 17 March 2006 with all the details of the transaction. As I've said in a couple of posts, I'm not worried about the $84. What I do worry about is people on the net doing the wrong thing. Chris"

I should have also pointed out that for something to be slanderous, it has to be malicious, false, and defamatory. In law, malice is where there is evil intent to commit a wrongful act injurious to others. The meaning of false is obvious. Defamation is the wrong of injuring someone's reputation without good reason or justification. I'd say I would definitely score 0 out of 3 and I'm sure any legal person would think the same way. I could certainly press charges against Todd Ash (and so could many others, it seems), although I don't intend to.

I have all the emails that advertisingandselling sent me and all the emails I sent them. As I've said before, there was little support from Admin and many clicks were broken, usually month after month. There were wrong expiry dates, lost credits, missing sites, anomalies in what different grades of investors got for their money, and broken clicks. In fact there were so many broken sites (including some that locked up my computer and I had to reboot) that I emailed Todd Ash on 8 July with a list of what was wrong with each one. Out of 413 paid to clicks, there were 142 sites (more than a third) with problems, including no counter, blank screens, old sites (e.g. "page cannot be found"), error messages of all descriptions including fatal error messages, counter kept running, nothing to click on, clicks buried behind other clicks, no separate window, etc, etc. At the same time, Todd Ash was trying to sell advertisingandselling on eBay for millions.

Details of how I chased up payment in 2006 and Todd Ash's responses are as follows: 4 May: I reached the payout threshold of $350. 25 May - 2 July: I chased up payment three times by email (25 May, 11 June, and 2 July) and 10 times through the advertisingandselling system, both methods always resulting in an automatically generated email from them. (I have all these emails, plus the later ones when I was chasing up payment after reaching the threshold a second and third time.) 2 July: I reached the payout threshold of $350 for a second time. 3 July: I finally heard from advertisingandselling and their story was that "We are unable to locate your last payout info,it may have been lost in our last records dump.There is no way for it to be retrieved ..." and I was compensated with an Investor account. 24-28 July: I chased up the second payment by email on 24, 26 and 28 July as well as three times through the system on 24, 25 and 27 July. 28 July: I got an email from advertisingandselling saying "We just processed a payment in the amount of $350.00. You should receive it in 7-10 days. ... we have discoverd the missing payment and are issuing it now ...". I received nothing. 11-23 August: I chased up payment again, emailing advertisingandselling 10 times - on 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 23 August. 23 August: I received an email from advertisingandselling saying "Checks have been mailed and you should have received it by now. We will look into this to see what the delay is. I have reviewed the records and your check was issued. ..." Again, I received nothing. 31 August - 30 September: I emailed Todd Ash, chasing up payment every day during this period, thus asking for payment 31 times. 7 September: I reached the payout threshold of $350 for a third time and was soon adding reference to this one to the daily email request for payment. 30 September: After 31 requests for payment in 31 days, I decided the best way to get a response from Todd Ash was to send about 75 emails in 10 minutes. He sent an email on that same day, saying "We have temporarily suspended your account for spamming us. Your account shows that you have a balance of $13.14. We remember when the site stats were dumped and information was lost and unable to be retrieved. We upgraded your account to Investor to compensate you for said losses.Now your account will remain under suspension for 10 days . Their are no records indicating we owe you any money,however we will look into it." (I explained to them what spam is and isn't.) 30 September - 11 October: I requested payment another 10 times, by email on 30 September and daily from 3 to 11 October. 12 October: I received an email from advertisingandselling saying, "We have answered your email already, please stop sending us email or we will report you for spam to your ISP. Your account has been terminated for violation of our t.o.s. and we now consider the matter closed." There was no spam, and no violation of terms of service. All I was doing was chasing up payment. In all, I requested payment 70 times.

When I reported Todd Ash and advertisingandselling to the Better Business Bureau and elsewhere, Todd Ash made up a story about me using multiple accounts, phishing their system, and violating the can spam act (see my second post above for exactly what Ash told BBB). It was all nonsense of course (see my earlier posts), but I suppose Todd Ash had to get rid of me somehow, because it was clear he had no intention of paying. I had known that advertisingandselling was a scam for some months by then, but I guess I wanted to prove it beyond any doubt by reaching the payout threshold a third time to see what happened. If Todd Ash had not come up with such blatant lies to BBB, I may never have bothered pursuing this issue any further. This and other responses by Ash have led me to revisit this thing from time to time, do more research, and post to different sites, such as here.

As an indication of how wretched the advertisingandselling site was, here is part of what I emailed to two colleagues on 26 June who were also members of this site: "... I put in for a check on 3 May, after reaching $350, and haven't received anything and there's no mention of it in Withdraw history. I've been unable to renew my membership or upgrade - Deposit cash doesn't work. I can't change my paid to clicks or introduce new ones (I'm still advertising onlineearningcenter, which disappeared three months ago). I lost 5000 auto credits trying to buy a paid to click. A lot of the paid to clicks are broken and the first ten pages of paid to clicks suddenly disappeared a little while back. ..." One of them emailed me back saying he hadn't been paid either (see my second post above).

About the only thing advertisingandselling was proficient at was sending out endless automatic emails about contests, account balances, inactive accounts being deleted, "special offers", etc. (I have all these emails too.)

It's black and white as to who has done wrong here. If Todd Ash (aka Billionaire) posts again, hopefully he will come back with some sensible comments, perhaps including some evidence for what he says, rather than spinning stories and making out that I'm the culprit or the problem or whatever rather than himself. It would be great if Todd Ash got himself a proper job and got back into the loop instead of sitting in the back room at home dreaming and scheming. The internet would be a better place.

 CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

AdvertisingandSelling.com has been sold and is a matter of public record. As for James Stein Of Turnkeysetup,he is a very well known scammer. While I was at the Marketer Mastermind Convention I met some of the biggest names in the business. For instance, Frank Kern,Ewen Chia,Jonathan Budd,Eban Pegan just to name a few. Eban Pegan makes over $20 million a year on the internet and he had nothing but great things to say about Todd Ash. It seems to me that you are simpy a disgruntled person who can't seem to make the internet work for him so you spend your time downplaying somebody elses work. It is people like you,the negative people, that myself and other successfull internet marketers stay away from. Negativity is bringing you down and you are only making yourself look bad. Todd Ash's name is blasted all across the internet for a reason.That reason is because he is somebody and you are nothing ! For the record I did as you said and called the Tucson Arizona Business Licensing Department and It Appears That You Are Wrong. Todd Ash Is CEO of several corporations and one of his companies is Ash Industries it is a D.B.A. if you know what that means and I seriously doubt it because you have know idea how to due business online or in the real world ! I happen to know that he sits on the Board of Directors of a Fortune 500 company,thats a fact! He also does business "Down Under" right underneath your nose ! It appears to me that this guy is like Visa,everywhere you want to be ! You should learn to think before you speak or in this case write. I think of this like Mcdonalds with over 1 billion served. You will find millions of people who hate the food chain,nevertheless they are still in business.You should stop wasting your time with this and move on. To let you know that James Stein of Turnkeysetup is on his way to prison very soon not just for his dealings with Todd Ash however for a class action law suit filed against him in North Carolina,this is from N.C. Public Records. Just Setting The Record Staight ! The Billionaire

I feel I am forced to post once again. I contacted the owner of www.turnkeysetup.com (see above) to get their view and received an email on 17 August 2008. He states: "I really have no need to post on the ripoffreport site but there are 2 comments on your post. Both those comments was posted by Todd Ash himself. For your information though and maybe you should post some of this to rebut what he posted. 1. http://www.ashindustries.com/ - Is a registered license business that is copywritten and todd ash uses the name illegally as todd ash has no registered business. Call Tuscan AZ court house you will find out he has no registered business on file. 2. His traffic has dropped massive because when you [i.e. he] ripped me off I posted that on my .com domain name as you have seen. Todd being an idiot decided to advertise in a bunch of ffa link site saying I was a scam and he advertised turnkeysetup.com the very site that talks about him being a scam. Well when he posted to all these sites he used my email so I emailed each and everyone and explained the truth and shown them the proof. Bottom line here is because he tried to make me look bad he only made himself look bad and thus the drop of traffic. Also he stalked me for over 2 years (yes there is a police report) he spent so much time stalking me that he did not spend the time on his own business and again traffic dropped. 3. advertisingandselling has not been sold to nobody. The post claims $5.5 million but the site is not worth $10 and any company knows that as a company is not stupid and they know how to do their research. Nobody forks out $5 million without doing research. Also if his site was sold then why is it still in his name - http://whois.domaintools.com/advertisingandselling.com 4. Todd Ash has always tried to talk a good game but fact is he always fails to provide real actual proof of what he says. This right here makes what he says hard for others to swallow because he can not prove what he says. Again as you know he is a scam and ripped off alot of people, I wish you luck in informing others about his scam websites. As for your money, you will never see it because todd ash can not afford to pay it because he dont make any money." He also says: "I have full screenshots, emails, police reports, and many other proofs about Todd Ash and his business practices which many people have seen." Pretty harsh stuff! But what does Ash expect? Re no. 1 above, it seems the real Ash Industries is a manufacturer of industrial tools in Louisiana. Re no. 2 above, this might explain why advertisingandselling had so many broken clicks and other problems and little support from admin in 2006. Todd Ash certainly comes up with a lot of unfounded accusations (violating the can spam act; phishing his site for email addresses; having multiple accounts), odd assumptions (jealous of him; that I've failed as an internet marketer; that I've been hired to make accusations against him), wrong information (his site pays like clockwork; it was sold for millions; it was in Forbes; no negatives about advertisingandselling on the web; sites are highly ranked) and other strange things (records lost in a records dump and can't pay; checks have been mailed and you should have received yours by now; pretending to be a consumer here rather than the owner of the site; comments like "always watching"). I've addressed many of these issues in earlier posts here. Rather than being jealous, I feel a touch sorry for him, if that's possible. Regarding the assumption that I failed as an internet marketer, I dabbled in Adwords and did a bit of websurfing in 2006, very much on a part-time basis. I made a few dollars from both but it was the number of dodgy programs and sites that put me off. And no one's hired me - I had to laugh at this. Also, it may surprise Ash that many people quite like their day jobs, myself included. It's interesting that Ash continues to pretend to be a consumer or customer of advertisingandselling here rather than the owner. "Billionaire" is actually Todd Ash - see http://video.yahoo.com/people/1629011 or Google "todd ash" and "billionaire" and it's the 2nd and 4th sites as at 27 September 2008. And only Todd Ash could have the inside knowledge of Ash and advertisingandselling shown in his three posts above. Besides, this is his writing style too - word choice, capitalisation, etc. He still owns advertisingandselling (see http://www.who.is/whois-com/ip-address/advertisingandselling.com) and is still trying to sell it for $50,000 through godaddy (see https://www.tdnam.com/trpItemListing.aspx?ci=1136&miid=11837248, until October it seems), somewhat less than the millions he was trying to sell it for on eBay. But as the owner of www.turnkeysetup.com points out, prospective buyers do their research. As well as Google searches, Alexa rankings, etc, I'm sure they would hop in as a member and see how the sites work (or don't work), whether it pays, etc. Interestingly, who.is lists advertisingandselling.com as costing $5.99 a year and taken (by Ash), and Ash's five other advertisingandselling sites as ranging from $5.89 to $9.99 a year. Sites with generic names (like advertisingandselling) are worth next to nothing. Sites with more specific names are worth a bit more (e.g. advertisingcalendars.net is $488; advertisingcentral.net is $1,660). I can understand why he wants to divest himself of advertisingandselling. He's obviously put a fair bit of time and money into it; yet its Alexa ranking continues to plummet [.net is 11 million +; .com is 5.4 million; .biz is 5 million; all falling]. He should perhaps cut his losses and forget about it. He's all over the net, writing various internet marketing articles to just about every article site, telling everyone he "Is An Entrepreneur and A Master Of Network Marketing". Also, I see he's a member of honesteonline.com (http://www.honesteonline.com/members/consumerpage.php?company=2164&link=1846) where, until recently, he was using the name Ash Industries. The other problem is he's in an industry (MLM) that is full of dodgy programs and doesn't really have a good reputation. Its operators usually try and keep a low profile. I guess it makes it easier to disappear into thin air if things get a bit hot. Todd Ash, on the other hand, seems to be promoting himself as much as possible, although interestingly, the Alexa ranking of his own site, http://www.toddash.com, has fallen to 5.4 million. Will be interesting.

I feel I am forced to post once again. I contacted the owner of www.turnkeysetup.com (see above) to get their view and received an email on 17 August 2008. He states: "I really have no need to post on the ripoffreport site but there are 2 comments on your post. Both those comments was posted by Todd Ash himself. For your information though and maybe you should post some of this to rebut what he posted. 1. http://www.ashindustries.com/ - Is a registered license business that is copywritten and todd ash uses the name illegally as todd ash has no registered business. Call Tuscan AZ court house you will find out he has no registered business on file. 2. His traffic has dropped massive because when you [i.e. he] ripped me off I posted that on my .com domain name as you have seen. Todd being an idiot decided to advertise in a bunch of ffa link site saying I was a scam and he advertised turnkeysetup.com the very site that talks about him being a scam. Well when he posted to all these sites he used my email so I emailed each and everyone and explained the truth and shown them the proof. Bottom line here is because he tried to make me look bad he only made himself look bad and thus the drop of traffic. Also he stalked me for over 2 years (yes there is a police report) he spent so much time stalking me that he did not spend the time on his own business and again traffic dropped. 3. advertisingandselling has not been sold to nobody. The post claims $5.5 million but the site is not worth $10 and any company knows that as a company is not stupid and they know how to do their research. Nobody forks out $5 million without doing research. Also if his site was sold then why is it still in his name - http://whois.domaintools.com/advertisingandselling.com 4. Todd Ash has always tried to talk a good game but fact is he always fails to provide real actual proof of what he says. This right here makes what he says hard for others to swallow because he can not prove what he says. Again as you know he is a scam and ripped off alot of people, I wish you luck in informing others about his scam websites. As for your money, you will never see it because todd ash can not afford to pay it because he dont make any money." He also says: "I have full screenshots, emails, police reports, and many other proofs about Todd Ash and his business practices which many people have seen." Pretty harsh stuff! But what does Ash expect? Re no. 1 above, it seems the real Ash Industries is a manufacturer of industrial tools in Louisiana. Re no. 2 above, this might explain why advertisingandselling had so many broken clicks and other problems and little support from admin in 2006. Todd Ash certainly comes up with a lot of unfounded accusations (violating the can spam act; phishing his site for email addresses; having multiple accounts), odd assumptions (jealous of him; that I've failed as an internet marketer; that I've been hired to make accusations against him), wrong information (his site pays like clockwork; it was sold for millions; it was in Forbes; no negatives about advertisingandselling on the web; sites are highly ranked) and other strange things (records lost in a records dump and can't pay; checks have been mailed and you should have received yours by now; pretending to be a consumer here rather than the owner of the site; comments like "always watching"). I've addressed many of these issues in earlier posts here. Rather than being jealous, I feel a touch sorry for him, if that's possible. Regarding the assumption that I failed as an internet marketer, I dabbled in Adwords and did a bit of websurfing in 2006, very much on a part-time basis. I made a few dollars from both but it was the number of dodgy programs and sites that put me off. And no one's hired me - I had to laugh at this. Also, it may surprise Ash that many people quite like their day jobs, myself included. It's interesting that Ash continues to pretend to be a consumer or customer of advertisingandselling here rather than the owner. "Billionaire" is actually Todd Ash - see http://video.yahoo.com/people/1629011 or Google "todd ash" and "billionaire" and it's the 2nd and 4th sites as at 27 September 2008. And only Todd Ash could have the inside knowledge of Ash and advertisingandselling shown in his three posts above. Besides, this is his writing style too - word choice, capitalisation, etc. He still owns advertisingandselling (see http://www.who.is/whois-com/ip-address/advertisingandselling.com) and is still trying to sell it for $50,000 through godaddy (see https://www.tdnam.com/trpItemListing.aspx?ci=1136&miid=11837248, until October it seems), somewhat less than the millions he was trying to sell it for on eBay. But as the owner of www.turnkeysetup.com points out, prospective buyers do their research. As well as Google searches, Alexa rankings, etc, I'm sure they would hop in as a member and see how the sites work (or don't work), whether it pays, etc. Interestingly, who.is lists advertisingandselling.com as costing $5.99 a year and taken (by Ash), and Ash's five other advertisingandselling sites as ranging from $5.89 to $9.99 a year. Sites with generic names (like advertisingandselling) are worth next to nothing. Sites with more specific names are worth a bit more (e.g. advertisingcalendars.net is $488; advertisingcentral.net is $1,660). I can understand why he wants to divest himself of advertisingandselling. He's obviously put a fair bit of time and money into it; yet its Alexa ranking continues to plummet [.net is 11 million +; .com is 5.4 million; .biz is 5 million; all falling]. He should perhaps cut his losses and forget about it. He's all over the net, writing various internet marketing articles to just about every article site, telling everyone he "Is An Entrepreneur and A Master Of Network Marketing". Also, I see he's a member of honesteonline.com (http://www.honesteonline.com/members/consumerpage.php?company=2164&link=1846) where, until recently, he was using the name Ash Industries. The other problem is he's in an industry (MLM) that is full of dodgy programs and doesn't really have a good reputation. Its operators usually try and keep a low profile. I guess it makes it easier to disappear into thin air if things get a bit hot. Todd Ash, on the other hand, seems to be promoting himself as much as possible, although interestingly, the Alexa ranking of his own site, http://www.toddash.com, has fallen to 5.4 million. Will be interesting.

Attention Chris Pearce: Todd Ash Is High Profile Marketer and Entreprenuer ! Advertising and Selling is a viable name and is prime internet "Real Estate" . As I have stated before I have used them and I have always been paid on time. I have also used the AdvertisingandSelling.com ad service and have very powerful results. Could it be you are just upset in your own failure as an internet marketer and are just looking for someone to pin your failure on. Todd Ash has been training people to market online for years and I have heard nothing but good things about him and all of the companies that he owns. I would not blame him if he took legal action against you for slandering his good name and reputation . I doubt that he would do that because I know that he is not greedy or spiteful. I would suspect that someone has hired you to make these accusations to damage his business however I believe that your efforts are unsuccessful,he is too big for you to conquer. I happen to know that he is about to launch a new online company that is going to blow the doors off of the MLM business and create 1,000's of millionaires ! Thats the word in cyberspace ! A friend of a friend told me this and this person is in the know and also a very high profile internet entreprenuer ! I also know that the site was on Ebay for a while and was not kicked off,Todd Ash merely stopped advertising the company sale there. Ebay had nothing to do with it not being for sale any longer. As I mentioned before the company has been sold and the whois information may have not been updated yet, however I am sure that it will be in the near future. You should give it a rest already. Billionaire in the know

Attention Chris Pearce: Todd Ash Is High Profile Marketer and Entreprenuer ! Advertising and Selling is a viable name and is prime internet "Real Estate" . As I have stated before I have used them and I have always been paid on time. I have also used the AdvertisingandSelling.com ad service and have very powerful results. Could it be you are just upset in your own failure as an internet marketer and are just looking for someone to pin your failure on. Todd Ash has been training people to market online for years and I have heard nothing but good things about him and all of the companies that he owns. I would not blame him if he took legal action against you for slandering his good name and reputation . I doubt that he would do that because I know that he is not greedy or spiteful. I would suspect that someone has hired you to make these accusations to damage his business however I believe that your efforts are unsuccessful,he is too big for you to conquer. I happen to know that he is about to launch a new online company that is going to blow the doors off of the MLM business and create 1,000's of millionaires ! Thats the word in cyberspace ! A friend of a friend told me this and this person is in the know and also a very high profile internet entreprenuer ! I also know that the site was on Ebay for a while and was not kicked off,Todd Ash merely stopped advertising the company sale there. Ebay had nothing to do with it not being for sale any longer. As I mentioned before the company has been sold and the whois information may have not been updated yet, however I am sure that it will be in the near future. You should give it a rest already. Billionaire in the know

Attention Chris Pearce: Todd Ash Is High Profile Marketer and Entreprenuer ! Advertising and Selling is a viable name and is prime internet "Real Estate" . As I have stated before I have used them and I have always been paid on time. I have also used the AdvertisingandSelling.com ad service and have very powerful results. Could it be you are just upset in your own failure as an internet marketer and are just looking for someone to pin your failure on. Todd Ash has been training people to market online for years and I have heard nothing but good things about him and all of the companies that he owns. I would not blame him if he took legal action against you for slandering his good name and reputation . I doubt that he would do that because I know that he is not greedy or spiteful. I would suspect that someone has hired you to make these accusations to damage his business however I believe that your efforts are unsuccessful,he is too big for you to conquer. I happen to know that he is about to launch a new online company that is going to blow the doors off of the MLM business and create 1,000's of millionaires ! Thats the word in cyberspace ! A friend of a friend told me this and this person is in the know and also a very high profile internet entreprenuer ! I also know that the site was on Ebay for a while and was not kicked off,Todd Ash merely stopped advertising the company sale there. Ebay had nothing to do with it not being for sale any longer. As I mentioned before the company has been sold and the whois information may have not been updated yet, however I am sure that it will be in the near future. You should give it a rest already. Billionaire in the know

Attention Chris Pearce: Todd Ash Is High Profile Marketer and Entreprenuer ! Advertising and Selling is a viable name and is prime internet "Real Estate" . As I have stated before I have used them and I have always been paid on time. I have also used the AdvertisingandSelling.com ad service and have very powerful results. Could it be you are just upset in your own failure as an internet marketer and are just looking for someone to pin your failure on. Todd Ash has been training people to market online for years and I have heard nothing but good things about him and all of the companies that he owns. I would not blame him if he took legal action against you for slandering his good name and reputation . I doubt that he would do that because I know that he is not greedy or spiteful. I would suspect that someone has hired you to make these accusations to damage his business however I believe that your efforts are unsuccessful,he is too big for you to conquer. I happen to know that he is about to launch a new online company that is going to blow the doors off of the MLM business and create 1,000's of millionaires ! Thats the word in cyberspace ! A friend of a friend told me this and this person is in the know and also a very high profile internet entreprenuer ! I also know that the site was on Ebay for a while and was not kicked off,Todd Ash merely stopped advertising the company sale there. Ebay had nothing to do with it not being for sale any longer. As I mentioned before the company has been sold and the whois information may have not been updated yet, however I am sure that it will be in the near future. You should give it a rest already. Billionaire in the know

Further to my post at top, I would like to respond to the two posts above. I believe they were both written and posted by Todd Ash himself, of Tucson, Arizona, owner and operator of advertisingandselling. I'm glad he's a member of his own scam - he deserves it. There are plenty of negative comments about advertisingandselling on the web. See for example: http://www.killerstartups.com/Marketing/advertisingandselling-com-advertisers-publishers (see comments from those saying it is a useless site, uses cheap/stolen software, and is very similar to other sites; I have no reason not to believe any of this - I certainly had all sorts of operational problems with the site, and yes, it's very similar to some other sites) http://www.turnkeysetup.com/ (this site is dedicated to advertisingandselling, is headed "Fraud alert: warning you before you get scammed" and contains "Todd Ash scam info"; when you Google advertisingandselling, it is the first site on the list) http://getpaidforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=466350 (see comment from another person who wasn't paid) http://www.moneymakergroup.com/lofiversion/index.php/t44819.html (see further negative comments from people; includes a longer version of my post at the top of this page; I reproduce it below as it gives further insights into this shonky operation) http://www.getpaidforum.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t430150.html (includes several posts that indicate the site isn't paying; also includes a view that Ash is/was spamming) Further evidence that advertisingandselling doesn't pay is in an email from my sponsor at advertisingandselling. He was the one who introduced me to advertisingandselling. Later, when it became clear that they weren't paying, I contacted the sponsor and these were his replies (I still have the emails). On 26 June 2006, he wrote: "Hi Chris Sad but true. You are not the only one - I have paid as prefered partner from the first day - Unfortunate I have promoted a lot so I have 92 innocent people in my downline that might have lost theire money. My problems 1. My account says Basic (I paid for preferred partner) 2. first demand for $400 was made very shortly after I started - shows in the back office as PayPal - I never got anything on my Paypal account, but a mail telling me that the first payout had to be by check - Of course I never received a check. 3. 2nd payout demand for $350 never showed up in the back office and of course I never received anything. Have used all kinds of methods to try to get an answer without success. So maybe it's time to tell our downline not to put any money into Advertising and selling. What's your thoughts Best regards xxx" Then on 7 July 2006, he wrote: "Just asked for my 3rd withdrawal (did not receive any of the 2 first ones) This is what they informed when confirming my withdrawal: Withdrawal Request Successfully Processed - Site Admin will process payment within 24 to 48 hours. Will keep you informed if I receive a check Best regards xxx" I heard nothing more. I also have all the emails I sent to advertisingandselling and the few they sent me (plus their automatically generated ones - there were plenty of those). Ash Industries isn't a member of the Better Business Bureau (any wonder). But at http://tucson.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=72&bbb=1286&firm=20004503, BBB of Southern Arizona states: "BBB has requested basic information from this company but has not received a response." There is no evidence that Forbes has published anything on advertisingandselling. A search at http://search.forbes.com/search/, which includes forbes.com, Forbes Magazine, ForbesLife, Best of the Web, Associated Press, HealthDay, Optionetics, Thomson Financial News, PR Newswire, Business Wire, and Reuters, on "advertisingandselling", "Ash Industries" and "Todd Ash" for any dates produces no results. As far as I know, the only time Ash has come close to a mention in Forbes was in an article on work from home scams that was being put together by Forbes in late 2006. BBB of Southern Arizona had given me the name of a Forbes journalist who was putting this article together and I sent them some information. I'm not sure if the article was ever finalised or published. The who.is page http://www.who.is/whois-com/ip-address/advertisingandselling.com/ still lists Ash as the registrant, administrative contact and technical contact for advertisingandselling, and I believe this includes advertisingandselling.com, .net, .org, .info, .us, and .biz. On this page, who.is also lists about 30 "premium" domains with similar names to advertisingandselling for sale from $500 to $2,000. It also lists about 40 other domains with similar names to advertisingandselling, each for sale at $5.99. Despite this, for quite some time, Ash was trying to sell advertisingandselling on eBay for millions. I warned eBay about the site and it doesn't appear there any more. The www.advertisingandselling.com site is currently for sale through GoDaddy.com at https://www.tdnam.com/trpItemListing.aspx?ci=1136&miid=11837248 for $50,000 (I warned Godaddy too but they can't do anything). Here Ash boasts that it is "listed #1 On Yahoo Out Of 900,000,000 Million Sites !" He probably means 900 million but it's still rubbish. With Yahoo, if you type in advertisingandselling as a keyword and advertisingandselling.com as the site, it comes up as a ranking of 1. But what else would you expect? Alexa rankings reveal that advertisingandselling.com is currently ranked a bit lower than 5 million, .net and .biz are ranked a bit lower than 4 million, while the other advertisingandselling sites don't rank. The rankings have fallen steadily after peaking around 30,000 a few years back, so I guess we should all be thankfully that it's sinking. Current membership levels at advertisingandselling range from $13 to $20 for "basic", "executive" and "advanced", so at least Ash is extracting far fewer dollars from people these days. I've never heard of James Stein (see Ash's post above). When I Google James Stein, there are quite a few of them. Perhaps one of them or some other James Stein has had problems with advertisingandselling. For further insights into advertisingandselling, I reproduce my post of 11 December 2006 from http://www.moneymakergroup.com/lofiversion/index.php/t44819.html below: "Poor old advertisingandselling. Anyone had problems with this site? I've had heaps. Many sites were broken for months and months, admin hardly ever responds, credits are lost, and it doesn't pay despite saying it pays when you reach the $350 threshold. I joined it in Feb 2006 and clicked away for most of the year, reaching the payout threshold three times. First time, they 'lost' the details in a 'records dump' and I was 'compensated' with an Investor account. The second and third times - well, I kept emailing and emailing and emailing, chasing up payment. I got a very occasional response saying that checks had been mailed and I should have received mine by now, or that they had found the missing payment and were sending it now. Nothing happened. (I've never had problems with other checks from the US, by the way.) Finally, out of frustration, I emailed them 75 times in 10 minutes. They thought this was spam (I have since advised them what spam is) and suspended me for 10 days. I kept emailing them one a day; then, when I was into day 12 (sic) of my 10 day suspension, I was terminated and they said they owed me nothing! I advised the Better Business Bureau of Southern Arizona of their antics and that I thought the whole thing was a scam and a fraud. Advertisingandselling came back to BBB with this gem: 'We are not a member of the Better Business Bureau and are under no obligation to provide any information concerning this incident, however we will make a statement concerning this matter just for clarification and for our civic duty. Mr. Pearce was found in violation of the can spam act which he is well aware of as well as email phishing our system illegaly to obtain email addresses without our consent.He was also using mutiple accounts which is strictly prohibited. He was warned several times concerning this matter and was non responsive.Advertising and Selling business practices are company policy and not open to the public.Our terms of service state we can terminate any account without explanation at any time especially if you are found in violation of our terms. Mr. Pearson agreed to these terms when joining and makes him subject to them as well.As stated in our email to Mr. Pearson, we now consider the matter closed .' I just laughed. I advised BBB that I'd never heard of the can spam act (I'm in Australia). I Googled it and it seems to have something to do with pornography! I wouldn't know how to phish - I'm not a computer expert by any means. I don't have my own site, and this is the first time I have posted anything on a forum. As for 'mutiple' accounts, I only have one email address and have never had another one. There were no 'warnings' and it's advertisingandselling who are the very definition of non-responsive. I also complained to the US Postal Inspection Service and Tucson police. Further, a major magazine is writing an article about work from home sites to avoid and I believe advertisingandselling are getting a few mentions. (Note in their BBB response that they couldn't get my name right - they added 'son' to it twice.) I have also been in touch with eBay, filling them in about this site. Believe it or not, advertisingandselling have been trying to sell the site for amounts ranging from $2 million to $11.5 million. It's a traffic exchange site. There's nothing much else there, despite there being about five other sites in the group (.net, the main one now, also .com, .biz, and others). The owners seem to think the name alone is worth that amount. There is also no money coming into the site these days. There used to be about three payment processors and members had to pay a membership fee. But the payment processors disappeared from the site one by one, no doubt because they knew the site wasn't paying and lost patience. It's now free (with members paying a membership from their earnings), though it still says it will pay $350. Where would it get the money from? So who would buy a traffic exchange site of broken clicks, little response from admin, no income, and which doesn't pay (especially for up to $11.5 million)? You'd have to be worse than totally mad. Does it mean I can set up a traffic program (called, for example, advertisingandsales.com, which isn't registered), neglect it, not pay members, then a year or two later try and sell it for millions on eBay? It's a joke. Anyway, eBay was already investigating this item and has now removed it. The Investor accounts are now not looking too good - members were allegedly going to be paid 10 times the value when the site was sold. Don't hold your breath. I think the only thing that will happen to advertisingandselling is that it will disappear in coming months. Its Alexa ranking has fallen from a peak of around 30,000 to nearly 300,000 over several months. I once sent advertisingandselling a spreadsheet analysis of the 400 or so paid to clicks, with details of what was wrong with each click (over a third didn't work, or didn't have a counter, were old sites, or gave various virus warnings or error messages, sometimes locking up my computer). I offered to do this for $40, which was added to my account (but it's all play money, it seems). Instead of fixing the broken clicks, they suddenly emailed everyone sometime later to say that all sites are being deleted due to pop-ups etc and members will need to resubmit sites. Most members must have flown by then, because after a few weeks, only about 65 paid to clicks had been added. Don't believe the blurb above. It's old. The membership types are different. The bit about $10 a click is nonsense. They are all 1-3 cents, though there were a few at 5 cents ages ago, which would be okay if the site paid. Steer clear of this site. Besides, traffic exchange sites are well known for generating a lot of traffic but few sales. It stands to reason - there are a lot of people in there trying to sell products but not too many buyers or prospective buyers. Anyone else willing to share their advertisingandselling experiences?" I have no intention of taking legal action against Ash for fraud, libel, or anything else. I just want to warn others. Chris

Chris Pearce: Attention You really are full of beans. I am a member of that traffic exchange and they have payed me like clockwork. They are always paying attention. I can only believe that if they say you are a spammer or a phisher than you are one. By the way the company has been sold for more than $5.5 million dollars and the story can be found in Forbes Magazine. I have an Elite membership with AdvertisingandSelling.net which entitles me to a portion of the sale of the company and I have already been paid and I made alot of MONEY and I am happy to post this message! Billionaire in the know

Attention Chris Pearce: I had an account with them and they always payed like clockwork. I have used them since they started and have never had any problems. I can say this thought that they are paying attention and if they said you are a phisher(which also makes you a spammer) than more than likely you are ! This May Not Make You Happy: Advertising and Selling has been sold to a much larger entity for over $5.5 million dollars.I know this because I read a story about Todd Ash and Ash Industries in Forbes Magazine and other financial reporting companies. The company that has purchased Advertising and Selling wants to remain anonymous. So Chris Pearce of Australia, you should look before you leap.Making statements that you have made without any proof to backup your statements is unfounded and in this case you could be held liable. Contacting local authorities and the BBB which has no control over any business is ridiculous as you have no solid evidence to back up what you say. You have only your word.In the United States you have to have the burden of proof to take any actions against a company. I have done some investigating of my own and have not found any negative information about this company anywhere other than here.I hope that you are not tied in with James Stein because that would make your story even less believable. Anyway, the site you have mentioned has been sold to a major corporation so it seems that if what you say is true or is not, is irrelevent. The company has been sold and I think you are just upset to see Todd Ash of Ash Industries make a ton of money ! Somebody In The Know and Always Watching