Complaint Review: Bill Heard Chevrolet - Scottsdale Arizona

Some car dealers want many to think that most car dealers are on the up and up when it comes to how they operate. Well let's find some F&I Clown that can explain about the following. Take a good look at this below Rip Off Report and let's see if we can get some F&I Clown explain how a car buyer's credit application got JACKED WITH before it got sent to a bank for a loan approval. www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff140682.htm Next we can go back to 11/20/04 and read the following Rip Off Report. Can we say funny credit application? Go look at the picture of this car buyer's credit application. I told this car buyer to contact her auto lender and ask for a copy of the credit app that they got from the car dealer. I told Miss Bass that I felt that she would get a FAT SURPRISE in the mail once she got it. Needless to say I was right. SO MUCH FOR FULL DISCLOSURE right Mr car dealer's employee? www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm So many car dealer's sales staff and many F&I CLOWNS want to come to this web site and try to hang some "WINDOW DRESSING" that many in the auto industry are on the UP and UP. Many Rip Off Reports tell me the exact opposite. Now I think that it's time I post some more helpful info for car buyers. Read the below and see how many car dealers are getting SPANKED in New York for their reported deceptive ways. www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/dec/dec17b_04.html What can we call this informative reading Mr car dealer's employee? www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/may/may20a_05.html How should we label this reading? www.oag.state.ny.us/press/1999/sep/sep30e_99.html Can we call this one "UNWANTED STUFFING"? Mr car dealer's employee? www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/aug/aug31a_04.html Can we say car dealer gets put in a FREEZER? www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/dec/dec13e_01.html How do we label this informative reading? www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/sep/sep15a_04.html The lawsuit filed in Jefferson County State Supreme Court alleges that Sterling Auto, Inc. and its owner, Larry J. Gotham, Jr. have repeatedly and persistently sold vehicles without having title, leaving the purchasing consumer unable to get his or her car registered with the State Department of Motor Vehicles. www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2000/oct/oct26a_00.html Spitzer's Office Obtains Over $1.3 Million In Relief For Consumers www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/mar/mar15b_04.html Rockland County auto dealer will pay nearly $125,000 in refunds to settle allegations that it imposed a hidden fee on more than 2,000 new car buyers. In the settlement, the affected consumers will each receive a payment of $61, and the dealer will also pay $22,000 in civil penalties and costs. www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/feb/feb28b_02.html Please HELP ME Mr car dealer's employee! Somebody told me that many use FULL DISCLOSURE now days. Can we say "NONE FULL DISCLOSURE Mr car dealer's employee? In settling the investigations, both auto dealers agreed to pay $1,500 to each consumer who unwittingly purchased former rental vehicles without proper notification. DeNooyer Dodge will pay restitution to at least twelve consumers and Haynes Ford will pay restitution to at least nine consumers, resulting in $33,000 in refunds in total. www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/jul/jul20c_04.html Please somebody HELP ME, I need some NEW meds! I am being lead to believe that there are many honest car dealers out there. I hope somebody can clear up my F**KED UP thinking. O POOP I found some more informative reading. PLEASE when can I find some good reading about a car dealer. PLEASE somebody help me. I can only find INFORMATIVE reading. Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced a lawsuit against a Monroe County used car dealer for engaging in illegal business practices including selling vehicles with rolled back odometers. www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/may/may30b_01.html Spitzer's office alleged that at least four auto dealers promoted auto auctions and used false and misleading claims in their advertisements. Many of these deceptive campaigns were developed by an independent auto ad promoter who was also a target of today's enforcement actions. www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/jan/jan14a_02.html

Dealerships today are required by law to fully disclose all loan documentation to a car buyer. This includes the finance contract, the title application (which would, by the way, list the lender in question), and would best serve themselves by filling out the payment, term, rate, and lender on a seperate document from the contract itself to further ensure the consumer knows what they are signing. The days of just signing a contract at a 'roundabout' rate, or heaven forfend, a blank contract, are long over. Any dealerships still practicing this sort of nonsense will quickly find themselves on the wrong end of a lawsuit and lose astronomical amounts of money. The privacy and disclosure laws in place now require a car dealership to operate in an above board manner. Bank contracts are no longer filled out with over-inflated trade values for out of equity consumers. The trade value shown is the trade value received and the negative will now appear on the contract. The smoke and mirrors show, thankfully, is becoming a thing of the past. Obviously this is something which will take a little time to become industry-wide, but I can assure you it's well on the way to getting there. For instance, lets take a deal I signed up today. The customer signed in no less than 3 seperate places regarding the term, rate, and payment for their new vehicle. They signed in no less than 4 places, including a form specifically to disclose just this, that they understood they were out of equity on thier trade and exactly what the trade appraisal and loan payoff were. The customer signed in no less than 2 places as to who thier lender was and when the first payment would come due. They received from me a menu offering all the options on their contract (Life/health insurance, extended warranty, gap insurance, alarms, etc) with specific prices for each item, what each item would individually and collectively add to thier payment, and allowed them to select what they wished to add to the contract (gap and warranty in this instance). The loan was approved prior the the customer sitting down with me at my desk to go over all this information. The loan approved will be the loan he gets, unless the bank which had already closed for the day gives him a better rate on Monday, at which point I will call him back to let him know this... as I promised him I would when I told him there was a chance his payment might go lower. My dealership was profitable in the sale of the vehicle, although not ridiculously so. Everything was done with the customers full understanding, since I said the same thing regarding the prices on each and every thing on an average of three times. Never once did I talk fast or attempt to gloss over information regarding how much anything was costing him. The customer was happy, the dealership was happy, and the lender was happy. The customer had questionable credit, but he was treated like every single person I ever help - with respect and with his interests in mind. This is how it should be done. This is how it will be done everywhere eventually. I attribute this to people like yourself who have questioned the negative things which have happened in the past in my industry. You should be proud you have helped to make this a better business. Having said that, you should also realize many of the instances where you have attacked dealerships there is quite likely more than one side to the story. Very often customers are just as much to blame as dealers when it comes to miscommunication. Open your mind to the possibilities a bit. I like to think that I, someone you had written off as just another scum-bag F&I Clown, have represented myself in a professional and consumer-oriented manner. Perhaps you could be wrong about other men and women in the car industry as well?

Mike, in Barnegat you said "All you really have to do is call the loan company this dealership is attempting to get your paperwork through. Simply tell them you feel you were rushed through the paperwork process and weren't properly disclosed all the numbers." How is a car buyer going to find out the name of the lender that is looking at the car deal? You and I both know that car dealers F&I Clowns "Fire Shot guns" to car buyers credit reports all the time. No car dealer's F&I CLOWN is going to tell the buyer which lender is going to be the loan company until WAY AFTER the paper is hung. Most of the time car buyers DO NOT KNOW who they are going to make their payments to until they get a payment book in the mail. Car buyers need to NEVER drive the new car home until they get copies of EVERYTHING they sign, including a copy of the credit application they filled out. Many car dealers have their sales staff fill out the credit applications. Many dealers want the hand writing on the credit applications to NOT be the car buyer's hand writing. That way they can change it behind the car buyer's back to make it PRETTY in the eyes of the lenders. "White OUT" is used by many car dealers. They only want the buyers signature on the credit application. Again take a LONG HARD LOOK at this Rip Off Report below. This car buyer needed a good lawyer on her side. www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm We also have to keep a close eye on how some car dealers operate. Want proof? Look at the second picture in this Rip Off Report. Do you thing this lady knew what happened to her credit application before it got faxed to her lender? www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm I know how many car dealers treat car buyers that DO NOT want to drive the car home right away. They wait until the car buyer leaves the dealership, They then have one of their sales staff drive the new car to the car buyers home, park it in the car buyer's drive way and lock the keys in it and JET BACK to their SLED SHOW! Anybody say anything, they say the car buyer/shopper drove it home! The big problem is that many auto lenders love the big money they make from car dealers. They tend to look the other way when RED FLAGS pop up as to fishy documentation. Let's both agree that most of the time F&I Clowns do not show and tell car buyers everything the day of purchase! They wait until after the deal is carved in stone, then let the cat out of the bag! Stick in the car dealer before they stick it in you!

Thanks for backing me up there Rob- if you're the Rob I think you are I hope everything is going ok with you! As for this situation, we're obviously in limbo as to the resolution since the original poster never came back to tell us what happened. I think I'll just go ahead and post for him since I basically know how this ended... Sometime between the Monday when they spoke to the GM and the following Monday when they were supposed to come in to speak with the next person up the chain the finance office let the desk know they had an unfundable contract due to unverifiable insurance and the customer was called to return the truck and pick up their trade. This is the problem with Spot Deliveries, there's just too much up in the air with the deal. Many car dealerships, including mine, have ceased the practice of Spot Deliveries for exactly this reason. At the end of the day, regardless of what kind of dealership you're doing business with (A good one or a bad one), they're all in business to make money. If a salesperson, a desk manager, a finance manager, and a detail employee are all tied up with the delivery for the industry average of about 2.5 hours, and that same vehicle will potentially be returned a day or so later, the company is making a very bad business decision. With the advent of tools like Dealertrack and Route 1, there is no reason why a contract cannot be immediately approved by a lender, so signing blank contracts (in and of itself exceedingly illegal) is a practice which does not need to be done. Signing up without insurance is also foolish on the dealer's part- how will they finalize a contact without it? Sure, almost every dealer is signed up with some kind of Temporary Insurance (or Spot Insurance to use the industry term), but there are very few lenders which will fund based on Temp Insurance. And even if you are funded on Temp Insurance, you're still required to be able to prove to Motor Vehicle the customer was delivered with full coverage insurance in effect at the time. In New Jersey, at least, the Motor Vehicle Liscense, which is required to issue temporary plates, is in jepardy if you deliver a car without full coverage insurance. The business is changing, if we want it to or not. Those people in the business who are still running a dealership like it's 1986 are slowly but surely going to be phased out by attrition. If they cannot adjust their thinking to the new approach to the car business, they're going to either lose their jobs, or lose their dealerships. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting three car dealers in most places, so customers aren't limited to only one or two choices on where to do business. They have all the options in the world, as they should. If you don't feel comfortable with the purchase, simply walk out and go to a reputable store. Those managers and salespeople who refuse to adjust will pay the price. We're a service industry, like any other. People have to be given a fair deal, a fair contract, and dealt with in a respectable manner. Anything other than that, and a customer can and should just walk away.

Thanks for backing me up there Rob- if you're the Rob I think you are I hope everything is going ok with you! As for this situation, we're obviously in limbo as to the resolution since the original poster never came back to tell us what happened. I think I'll just go ahead and post for him since I basically know how this ended... Sometime between the Monday when they spoke to the GM and the following Monday when they were supposed to come in to speak with the next person up the chain the finance office let the desk know they had an unfundable contract due to unverifiable insurance and the customer was called to return the truck and pick up their trade. This is the problem with Spot Deliveries, there's just too much up in the air with the deal. Many car dealerships, including mine, have ceased the practice of Spot Deliveries for exactly this reason. At the end of the day, regardless of what kind of dealership you're doing business with (A good one or a bad one), they're all in business to make money. If a salesperson, a desk manager, a finance manager, and a detail employee are all tied up with the delivery for the industry average of about 2.5 hours, and that same vehicle will potentially be returned a day or so later, the company is making a very bad business decision. With the advent of tools like Dealertrack and Route 1, there is no reason why a contract cannot be immediately approved by a lender, so signing blank contracts (in and of itself exceedingly illegal) is a practice which does not need to be done. Signing up without insurance is also foolish on the dealer's part- how will they finalize a contact without it? Sure, almost every dealer is signed up with some kind of Temporary Insurance (or Spot Insurance to use the industry term), but there are very few lenders which will fund based on Temp Insurance. And even if you are funded on Temp Insurance, you're still required to be able to prove to Motor Vehicle the customer was delivered with full coverage insurance in effect at the time. In New Jersey, at least, the Motor Vehicle Liscense, which is required to issue temporary plates, is in jepardy if you deliver a car without full coverage insurance. The business is changing, if we want it to or not. Those people in the business who are still running a dealership like it's 1986 are slowly but surely going to be phased out by attrition. If they cannot adjust their thinking to the new approach to the car business, they're going to either lose their jobs, or lose their dealerships. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting three car dealers in most places, so customers aren't limited to only one or two choices on where to do business. They have all the options in the world, as they should. If you don't feel comfortable with the purchase, simply walk out and go to a reputable store. Those managers and salespeople who refuse to adjust will pay the price. We're a service industry, like any other. People have to be given a fair deal, a fair contract, and dealt with in a respectable manner. Anything other than that, and a customer can and should just walk away.

Thanks for backing me up there Rob- if you're the Rob I think you are I hope everything is going ok with you! As for this situation, we're obviously in limbo as to the resolution since the original poster never came back to tell us what happened. I think I'll just go ahead and post for him since I basically know how this ended... Sometime between the Monday when they spoke to the GM and the following Monday when they were supposed to come in to speak with the next person up the chain the finance office let the desk know they had an unfundable contract due to unverifiable insurance and the customer was called to return the truck and pick up their trade. This is the problem with Spot Deliveries, there's just too much up in the air with the deal. Many car dealerships, including mine, have ceased the practice of Spot Deliveries for exactly this reason. At the end of the day, regardless of what kind of dealership you're doing business with (A good one or a bad one), they're all in business to make money. If a salesperson, a desk manager, a finance manager, and a detail employee are all tied up with the delivery for the industry average of about 2.5 hours, and that same vehicle will potentially be returned a day or so later, the company is making a very bad business decision. With the advent of tools like Dealertrack and Route 1, there is no reason why a contract cannot be immediately approved by a lender, so signing blank contracts (in and of itself exceedingly illegal) is a practice which does not need to be done. Signing up without insurance is also foolish on the dealer's part- how will they finalize a contact without it? Sure, almost every dealer is signed up with some kind of Temporary Insurance (or Spot Insurance to use the industry term), but there are very few lenders which will fund based on Temp Insurance. And even if you are funded on Temp Insurance, you're still required to be able to prove to Motor Vehicle the customer was delivered with full coverage insurance in effect at the time. In New Jersey, at least, the Motor Vehicle Liscense, which is required to issue temporary plates, is in jepardy if you deliver a car without full coverage insurance. The business is changing, if we want it to or not. Those people in the business who are still running a dealership like it's 1986 are slowly but surely going to be phased out by attrition. If they cannot adjust their thinking to the new approach to the car business, they're going to either lose their jobs, or lose their dealerships. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting three car dealers in most places, so customers aren't limited to only one or two choices on where to do business. They have all the options in the world, as they should. If you don't feel comfortable with the purchase, simply walk out and go to a reputable store. Those managers and salespeople who refuse to adjust will pay the price. We're a service industry, like any other. People have to be given a fair deal, a fair contract, and dealt with in a respectable manner. Anything other than that, and a customer can and should just walk away.

Thanks for backing me up there Rob- if you're the Rob I think you are I hope everything is going ok with you! As for this situation, we're obviously in limbo as to the resolution since the original poster never came back to tell us what happened. I think I'll just go ahead and post for him since I basically know how this ended... Sometime between the Monday when they spoke to the GM and the following Monday when they were supposed to come in to speak with the next person up the chain the finance office let the desk know they had an unfundable contract due to unverifiable insurance and the customer was called to return the truck and pick up their trade. This is the problem with Spot Deliveries, there's just too much up in the air with the deal. Many car dealerships, including mine, have ceased the practice of Spot Deliveries for exactly this reason. At the end of the day, regardless of what kind of dealership you're doing business with (A good one or a bad one), they're all in business to make money. If a salesperson, a desk manager, a finance manager, and a detail employee are all tied up with the delivery for the industry average of about 2.5 hours, and that same vehicle will potentially be returned a day or so later, the company is making a very bad business decision. With the advent of tools like Dealertrack and Route 1, there is no reason why a contract cannot be immediately approved by a lender, so signing blank contracts (in and of itself exceedingly illegal) is a practice which does not need to be done. Signing up without insurance is also foolish on the dealer's part- how will they finalize a contact without it? Sure, almost every dealer is signed up with some kind of Temporary Insurance (or Spot Insurance to use the industry term), but there are very few lenders which will fund based on Temp Insurance. And even if you are funded on Temp Insurance, you're still required to be able to prove to Motor Vehicle the customer was delivered with full coverage insurance in effect at the time. In New Jersey, at least, the Motor Vehicle Liscense, which is required to issue temporary plates, is in jepardy if you deliver a car without full coverage insurance. The business is changing, if we want it to or not. Those people in the business who are still running a dealership like it's 1986 are slowly but surely going to be phased out by attrition. If they cannot adjust their thinking to the new approach to the car business, they're going to either lose their jobs, or lose their dealerships. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting three car dealers in most places, so customers aren't limited to only one or two choices on where to do business. They have all the options in the world, as they should. If you don't feel comfortable with the purchase, simply walk out and go to a reputable store. Those managers and salespeople who refuse to adjust will pay the price. We're a service industry, like any other. People have to be given a fair deal, a fair contract, and dealt with in a respectable manner. Anything other than that, and a customer can and should just walk away.

Actually, Michael in Barnaget is correct. He's in the business. As am I. Without full coverage insurance, the bank WILL NOT fund the loan. No ifs ands or buts. Some of us ARE here to help. Also, blowing the customer interview will get a nice FED EX package going back to the dealer with all the loan information involved.

Many banks will hold the car buyer's feet to the fire. They want the business that the car dealers are bring to them. Banks get Ripped off all the time from car dealers and they do look the other way because all of the money they make on car loans. Read this Rip Off Report. Look at all 3 photos and make sure you understand what the car dealer did to the buyer in the forth contract. Call it "kicking the trade" and not telling the car buyer. Trade-in lands in a REPO HOLE! Also look at the second photo REAL GOOD. I have a copy of this credit application. I also had a meeting with this car buyer. I told her to ask the bank for a copy of the credit app that the bank got from the car dealer. The car buyer got a shock when she got a copy of her credit app in the mail. www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm Car dealers know that most AG's offices do not have the man power to go after car dealer scams and Rip Offs. So they do what ever they want to car buyers, Knowing that nobody will do any thing to them. Want PROOF? Look at this next Rip Off Report and ask yourself what federal law is being broken? Count how many new cars that DO NOT have a MSRP. Then ask what law was it that was passed in 1958 that says all new cars must have a car maker's MSRP on all NEW CARS! www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff38266.htm many car buyers need to re-think their thinking when it comes to car buying. Many banks are in bed with car dealers. Thats where their big money comes from.

Mike, all you really have to do is call the loan company this dealership is attempting to get your paperwork through. Simply tell them you feel you were rushed through the paperwork process and weren't properly disclosed all the numbers. Before you get off the phone, tell the finance company you DO NOT have insurance. The bank won't fund the contract for the dealer, and you can rest assured the dealer will be calling you to try to work something out pretty quickly. Further, DO NOT under ANY circumstances drive this vehicle anywhere. Right now you're on the correct side of the law, but if you drive the truck, you're breaking the law. Make sure the bank knows you're uninsured, and that the dealer never called to verify insurance. Plain and simple, the Dealer will have to call you to try to get insurance put in place. Just tell the dealer you can't afford it. Eventually they're going to have to come and get their truck back from you since they can't get funded. Hope this helps!

Mike let me explain some things to you. First their IS NO 3 day cooling off period in this state. Many of your local new car dealers go together and made sure that a 3 day law would NEVER PASS in this state. Your best luck would be that the dealer not be able to get your finacing approved. They then will call you back to the dealership and ask you to resign NEW doc's that would be a new contract or ask you to give them your new sled back to them. This second happend many times in this state. It's called a "Spot Delivery" If they get your loan approved, make about 4 payments and they contact your lender and ask them to send you a copy of the credit application that they got from your friendly car dealer. You might get a big FAT SURPRISE in the mail. If you get a big surprise in the mail you have a GREAT LAW SUIT. It's called BANKING FRAUD. Many local car dealers are doing it. Like to know more about what I am telling you? go to this report. Look at all of the pic's in this below report REAL GOOD, Might help you! www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm