Complaint Review: JBC Legal Group Camco RJM Acquisitions - FingerHut NCO Financial Palisades Collections - Nationwide

Most of the information Scott has posted here is readily available from public sources. For example, it was reported in the media that sCAMCO's portfolio had been sold to RJM acquisitions shortly after the Federal authorities shut sCAMCO down. I would assume that, since you claim to know a lot of what was going on at sCAMCO and you indicate that you live in Rockford, you probably worked for them. Not a good recommendation, Nico.

Now how did you know about the debts that the company bought? Sounds like you sell debt to me. You know too much about the portfolio's of alot of the collection agencies out thier you even knew what camco had before i did and that was saying alot since i knew everything that happened thier....Your knowledge in this matter is astounding might i add. I wish to have a word with you if ou have the time.

After reading all of the responses in this thread, I now see some collectors (personaly) in a different light. There are however changes that need to be made and if all Collection Agencies were on the same "fair play" page, perhaps this thread would not exist. I had credit problems and was constantly hounded by collection agencies. I made payments as best as I could. When I was able to get back on my feet, I contacted them all requesting payoff balances. I made the grave mistake of making them via electronic checking account transfers. I pretty much dealt with many of the companies mentioned in this thread, and in most cases received release letters and checking account receipts. NCO provided none of these. About 10 months ago, I called NCO for a payoff balance ($800.00) and set up the lump sum payment. The money was deducted from my checking account and I never heard from them again. Six weeks ago I pulled my Credit reports and found that NCO has been reporting me for the past 10 months for a $15.00 (FIFTEEN DOLLAR) balance. I disputed this with the 3 main agencies only to get a letter stating "the creditor has verified the account." Two weeks ago, I contacted NCO and was passed around and had to call 3 different numbers before I finally was handed to a Supervisor who told me that I had no balance with NCO and that he would immediately send me a release letter. I'm still waiting for the letter. I also asked him about the Credit Report information and he told me to go through the Reporting agencies because in his unit "They do not report to credit bureaus..." Huh? Who the heck was I speaking with??? Anyone? It is worth mentioning that my entire conversation with him was cordial, we even laughed a few times. I thanked him and he apologized for the error. Now what?

This advice is for individuals who have had false or misleading collection accounts placed on their credit reports by collection agencies. This is not for people who defaulted on a debt they could not or would not pay. 1. If there is a legitimate balance owed, contact the agency and insist on a letter stating that the information will be removed once the account is satisfied. Do not settle for a paid collection account, it must be removed entirely. They know how to word the letter so it isn't a written confession to any wrongdoing on their part. If they refuse, tell them that you have no incentive to pay them as this derog only lowers your credit score about 40 points. Therefore, it would be more intelligent to use the funds to pay off an existing credit card debt, which will raise your score, and in three months of timely payments it will be back to where it was. Tell them that if they are not willing to remove the information, you have no basis for further discussion, they can drop dead, and good luck collection two cents from you. 2. Do report them to the Federal Trade Commission, but only if there were legitmate violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act or the Fair Credit Reporting Act. The FTC is bogged down with sour grapes complaints, which slows down the process of putting the low-life agencies like Viking, Superior Asset Management or Risk Management out of business.

After reading a few responses above I have a question. Who buys a bad debt? If these companies see that these people aren't "paying their bills" Why would they be stupid enough to buy these debts?

Gentlemen: you make very good points. I do believe the stat rule regarding SOL and the reporting timelines. Thankyou for the info. I again am a professional collector. The only way i was ever able to be one in the first place was a firm honest belief that if people owe money granted in good faith, they should pay it so the rest of us dont have our rates jacked up. I believe not paying a bill for goods and services negotiated in good faith is a form of stealing -and would put it in the 'white collar ' crime category. I fear that if the system starts breaking down -ie what Tim says about 'the bottom line' vs the right thing to do to protect the industry - then the average consumer will adjust. The last thing we need is every single consumer being experts in FDCPA loopholes. This is because a vast vast majority of all people called do in fact owe the thing and with armed knowledge of the FDCPA -will loophole and stall ad infinitum to not pay the debt they didnt feel like paying in the first place. All people should know their rights - but thats under the assumption they will use their rights in good faith -not just a way to beat the system. The industry should -i think must - take steps to defend the innocent and berate agency/creditor abuse -so that the people who they phone will owe the debt -not stat debt because its 'technically legal' to collect it but otherwize dead. The statute is designed to be an 'automatic cpt 7' but forgets to actually make it illegal to collect. These abuses by agencies who care not about who owes or not - they have horserace 'blinders 'on - and only want to curry more bottom line will eventually wreck the credibility of the industry then everyone will cry 'cease and desist' and have cause to delay or outright stop paying their bills. p.s. -dont get me started on 'credit councelling' Regards

A few things. They do not become the 'new creditor'. The creditor definition only comes into play in some states for the purpose of bonding and licensing. If they collect on a debt for another in xx state then they need a license but if they bought the debt then they do not need one. they STILL have to abide by the fdcpa. SOL=2 things. Reporting sol is from your 1st missed payment you never caught up. If you were late in january, caught up, and went late again in june and never caught up then the date is 7+180 from june. It is easiest to simply add 7 years from the chargeoff date. However, I have found that most of the time CRAs delete 7 years from your 1st miss. I am not 100% sure but I think NY has a 5 year reporting sol. sol for legal action has nothing to do with reporting. nothing. Your date also starts on the date you first missed a payment and never caught up. Selling the debt and most of the time making a payment does not restart this SOL. Some states have provisions that if you enter a new written contract with the collector the sol is restarted so of course sign nothing. In some states a payment would restart the legal sol(not the reporting sol). I believe in wisconsin it is illegal to collect on a debt that is out of statute. People collect on out of stat debt because the profit is huge. However, most companys break the laws with impunity because frankly if you got a call on a 15 year old debt your first reaction would tell them where to go. The collector is almost forced to start the threats of reporting the debt or lawsuits or theft in order to get paid. Camco found out just what a mistake that was and so did NCC.

Per the tax consequences and the jet ski: Yes, the IRS does consider debt forgiveness to be income. The reason why is rather complicated, but it does make sense. It boils down to this: most money that ends up in your hands (i.e. from wages) is taxed initially, and you therefore have a "basis" in that money that will prevent it from being taxed again. Loan proceeds are different. They represent an increase in your bottom line, at the time of disbursement. As such, they COULD be taxed, with a corresponding deduction at the time of repayment. What the IRS (actually congress) has opted to do, instead, is to forego this system of "taxation now and deduction later" and allow loan proceeds to simply remain tax-free as they don't result in an actual increase in finances. BUT, when loan debt is forgiven, there IS an increase in your historical and long-term bottom line. The repayment obligation that prevented the funds from being treated as income initially has vanished. As such, debt forgiveness is rightly characterized as income. The IRS doesn't care that the product purchased with the loan proceeds has been destroyed. Had you purchased this jet ski with your own funds, you wouldn't be able to deduct the cost of the destroyed item (unless it was a capital asset). There is no reason why you should be able to avoid taxation on loan proceeds that do not have to be repayed (although I'll admit this kind of sucks). The good thing is that, at the most, you are still only going to have to pay out 35% of the forgiven amount, and this assumes that you are in the highest tax bracket with no deductions. The bad thing is that you have to pay this amount NOW, whereas loan repayments would be stretched out over time. Tom, I admire your respect for the common man. The law does provide adequate redress for the consumer who is the victim of FCRA violations. The collection agencies, however, are banking on the fact that the majority opf consumers will never take the time to pursue recourse. If perpetrating the fraud brings in $300 per account on the average, and only 5 out of every 100 people will sue, receiving average damages of $900, the "in" is 30K and the "out" is only 4500$. Unfortunately, this is the way that many American businesses see things. It's all about the bottom line. Skirting the law is a business decision. If it's profitable in the long run to violate the law, even assuming that penalties will be assessed, many businesses won't think twice about it.

Per the tax consequences and the jet ski: Yes, the IRS does consider debt forgiveness to be income. The reason why is rather complicated, but it does make sense. It boils down to this: most money that ends up in your hands (i.e. from wages) is taxed initially, and you therefore have a "basis" in that money that will prevent it from being taxed again. Loan proceeds are different. They represent an increase in your bottom line, at the time of disbursement. As such, they COULD be taxed, with a corresponding deduction at the time of repayment. What the IRS (actually congress) has opted to do, instead, is to forego this system of "taxation now and deduction later" and allow loan proceeds to simply remain tax-free as they don't result in an actual increase in finances. BUT, when loan debt is forgiven, there IS an increase in your historical and long-term bottom line. The repayment obligation that prevented the funds from being treated as income initially has vanished. As such, debt forgiveness is rightly characterized as income. The IRS doesn't care that the product purchased with the loan proceeds has been destroyed. Had you purchased this jet ski with your own funds, you wouldn't be able to deduct the cost of the destroyed item (unless it was a capital asset). There is no reason why you should be able to avoid taxation on loan proceeds that do not have to be repayed (although I'll admit this kind of sucks). The good thing is that, at the most, you are still only going to have to pay out 35% of the forgiven amount, and this assumes that you are in the highest tax bracket with no deductions. The bad thing is that you have to pay this amount NOW, whereas loan repayments would be stretched out over time. Tom, I admire your respect for the common man. The law does provide adequate redress for the consumer who is the victim of FCRA violations. The collection agencies, however, are banking on the fact that the majority opf consumers will never take the time to pursue recourse. If perpetrating the fraud brings in $300 per account on the average, and only 5 out of every 100 people will sue, receiving average damages of $900, the "in" is 30K and the "out" is only 4500$. Unfortunately, this is the way that many American businesses see things. It's all about the bottom line. Skirting the law is a business decision. If it's profitable in the long run to violate the law, even assuming that penalties will be assessed, many businesses won't think twice about it.

Per the tax consequences and the jet ski: Yes, the IRS does consider debt forgiveness to be income. The reason why is rather complicated, but it does make sense. It boils down to this: most money that ends up in your hands (i.e. from wages) is taxed initially, and you therefore have a "basis" in that money that will prevent it from being taxed again. Loan proceeds are different. They represent an increase in your bottom line, at the time of disbursement. As such, they COULD be taxed, with a corresponding deduction at the time of repayment. What the IRS (actually congress) has opted to do, instead, is to forego this system of "taxation now and deduction later" and allow loan proceeds to simply remain tax-free as they don't result in an actual increase in finances. BUT, when loan debt is forgiven, there IS an increase in your historical and long-term bottom line. The repayment obligation that prevented the funds from being treated as income initially has vanished. As such, debt forgiveness is rightly characterized as income. The IRS doesn't care that the product purchased with the loan proceeds has been destroyed. Had you purchased this jet ski with your own funds, you wouldn't be able to deduct the cost of the destroyed item (unless it was a capital asset). There is no reason why you should be able to avoid taxation on loan proceeds that do not have to be repayed (although I'll admit this kind of sucks). The good thing is that, at the most, you are still only going to have to pay out 35% of the forgiven amount, and this assumes that you are in the highest tax bracket with no deductions. The bad thing is that you have to pay this amount NOW, whereas loan repayments would be stretched out over time. Tom, I admire your respect for the common man. The law does provide adequate redress for the consumer who is the victim of FCRA violations. The collection agencies, however, are banking on the fact that the majority opf consumers will never take the time to pursue recourse. If perpetrating the fraud brings in $300 per account on the average, and only 5 out of every 100 people will sue, receiving average damages of $900, the "in" is 30K and the "out" is only 4500$. Unfortunately, this is the way that many American businesses see things. It's all about the bottom line. Skirting the law is a business decision. If it's profitable in the long run to violate the law, even assuming that penalties will be assessed, many businesses won't think twice about it.

Per the tax consequences and the jet ski: Yes, the IRS does consider debt forgiveness to be income. The reason why is rather complicated, but it does make sense. It boils down to this: most money that ends up in your hands (i.e. from wages) is taxed initially, and you therefore have a "basis" in that money that will prevent it from being taxed again. Loan proceeds are different. They represent an increase in your bottom line, at the time of disbursement. As such, they COULD be taxed, with a corresponding deduction at the time of repayment. What the IRS (actually congress) has opted to do, instead, is to forego this system of "taxation now and deduction later" and allow loan proceeds to simply remain tax-free as they don't result in an actual increase in finances. BUT, when loan debt is forgiven, there IS an increase in your historical and long-term bottom line. The repayment obligation that prevented the funds from being treated as income initially has vanished. As such, debt forgiveness is rightly characterized as income. The IRS doesn't care that the product purchased with the loan proceeds has been destroyed. Had you purchased this jet ski with your own funds, you wouldn't be able to deduct the cost of the destroyed item (unless it was a capital asset). There is no reason why you should be able to avoid taxation on loan proceeds that do not have to be repayed (although I'll admit this kind of sucks). The good thing is that, at the most, you are still only going to have to pay out 35% of the forgiven amount, and this assumes that you are in the highest tax bracket with no deductions. The bad thing is that you have to pay this amount NOW, whereas loan repayments would be stretched out over time. Tom, I admire your respect for the common man. The law does provide adequate redress for the consumer who is the victim of FCRA violations. The collection agencies, however, are banking on the fact that the majority opf consumers will never take the time to pursue recourse. If perpetrating the fraud brings in $300 per account on the average, and only 5 out of every 100 people will sue, receiving average damages of $900, the "in" is 30K and the "out" is only 4500$. Unfortunately, this is the way that many American businesses see things. It's all about the bottom line. Skirting the law is a business decision. If it's profitable in the long run to violate the law, even assuming that penalties will be assessed, many businesses won't think twice about it.

Tim: Again i profess to be somewhat confused regarding the fdcpa and the fcra . I have been a collector for 16 years -but 15 of those have been in canada!! i fear that phantom debt and misinformed or over zealous items on bureaus are getting to be more and more typical. the reason that it fears me so is because of the way things in the united states operate. Yes there are laws and 'steps' to battle cra fraud . Yes there is class action via federal for the agencies and or creditors who misbehave. But for the average guy like you and i - we could have stuff 'slapped' on our bureaus -thus defaulting us into some high loan category , or eliminating us altogether. Far too often i am hearing of these things, and what is stopping creditors -think fingerhut and the NCO scams - from just doing it to force money out of folks. It takes months for disputes to go anywhere -even online to the big three. Being new to the country, i am aghast that some companies dont give a rats a*s to check the debt before stuffing it on the bureau and once its there - its there until the dogfight is over. And where does it all end? Debtors who play professional victim to avoid paying debt? Real honest and fair people getting their credit ruined? The big three wrapping you up with enough red tape to strech to the moon? companies have to do it over and over and over and get complained over and over and over to ever get shut down. What about the average agencies who screw up only once in a while? What about that poor sap who gets his credit wrecked -until it finally gets resolved (if it does) . How do they get a loan or feel good about the united states business process. I know statistically it is the far exception to the rule -however the checks and balances are dubious and painstaking for the consumer to protect or restore the lost credit . I fear that it is growing scam of agencies and or creditors to report paid, lost 'reaged' or fake debt. Is not only debt, but mortgage companies selling off portfolios to perhaps less than ethical lenders who then change the rules of the mortgage payments -hoping to force the poor people into foreclosure to steal their house. i myself no longer am interested in the 'big chair' (top collector making most commission). I am past my prime . I now seek to purchase texas and florida portfolios . like yourself, I was raised to believe in collections. People owe money -they should pay it so that people who do dont pay more to make up for it. We also believe that our efforts are fair and would never slap fake debt or threaten to sue stat debt or take a dispute that they dont owe it lightly. I am concerned for the image of the industry as a whole. Regards

Even if you settle for pennies on the dollar you will still get a hit from the IRS. I finally paid off a jet ski that was totaled. When the accident happened I called the creditor and requested the number to the insurance agency I was covered under. Each loan payment had a break down of the charges, one was for insurance. I called the insurance company and was told they did not insure jet skis. I called the loan company back and told them I would not pay the loan because it was suppose to be insured, they then said it wasn't. I sent a copy of a pay stub that showed the insurancelong story short, I settled on the amount owed. I paid $2000 instead of the $5000 that was owed. The loan company reported it to the IRS, I got a bill from the IRS for earned income, since I was forgiven the debt of $3000. Check all of your options before settleing.

Tom, Upon further research, it appears that we were both a little right and both a little wrong. Here's how it works: for most derogatories, the rule is that they must be removed within 7 years following a 180 day period commencing on the date that the debt accrued, or when the statute of limitations has run, whichever is LONGER. I had initially misread the statute to mean whichever is SHORTER. So, per my comments, and per FEDERAL law, the 7 year frame is correct, and my SOL frame was incorrect in situations where the SOL is less than seven years. I will conduct further research to see what the relationship is between the FCRA and state laws, which may trump the FCRA in certain situations. Your assertion that the seven year period begins on the date of last activity is also incorrect. It begins on the 180th day after the debt accrues, which, in most cases, will be about the time it is sent to a third party collector. As for collecting past the statute of limitations, there is nothing inherently illegal about trying to collect on a debt that cannot be enforced through the legal process. What IS illegal, however, is levying threats of legal action that cannot be taken in good faith. In other words, the creditor/collector CAN attempt to recover on a debt that is time barred, but if he resorts to threats of a lawsuit he has violated the FDCPA (along with a handful of common law torts).

well done tim Tim: thankyou for your correction. I do admit to being overly optimistic regarding my knowledge of commercial law. I have read the ftcpa and the fcra in its entire genre. I still dont understand what (unruley) agencies are talking about when trying to negotiate stat debt.... you cant sue or report but still try to collect on the poor sap after 15 years? People must REALLY need a paycheck to work that paper. The most confusing issue to myself is still after all these years the idea of an aged debt falling off after (typically ) 7 years. The dispute is the statute in the fcra . It suggests the 7 years be counted from 180 days after deliquient status (bounced check , failure of contract etc)- and exact charge off date for revolving credit - 180 days past due. (both cases are not accompanied by judgement) I was always under the impression that the statute was reset due to 'last payment date ' or 'date of last activity' . Thus paying a bill 6 years old actually reset the thing for another 7 years derogg. I now believe in the former - do you know for sure? regards

Tom, you're giving out some good advice, but allow me to clear up a legal error in your rebuttals. The law requires that negative accounts be removed from your credit report after the staute of limitations has run on the collection, which is dictated by the laws of the state where the debt originated. The statute of limitations will differ depending on the nature of the debt (i.e. simple contract claim, credit card, secured, etc.). Debt collection is an arena where business battles with law. This isn't unusual; there is virtually no field wherein what the lawyers want to do matches up with what the managers want to do. The result is that the enmployees, who are under the direction of the managers and not the lawyers, are misinformed as to what the law actually is. And, for some reason, every layman thinks he knows what the law is, and every lawyer tells you he'll have to look it up. As for dealing with your debts, let's separate the legitimate debts from the illegitimate debts. If your debts are illegitimate, the easy option is to dispute them directly with the CRAs, if they have been reported. If this doesn't work, your only credit-preserving option is to file suit. If they have not yet been reported, you may need to file for a declaratory judgment stating that you do not actually owe the debt to forestall reporting. At any rate, you should not wait until an illegitimate debt is reported to do something about it. As for legitimate debts, pay them off if you can, as fast as you can. If you cannot pay them off entirely, negotiate with the creditors to reduce the amount. Keep in mind that debt collection is heavily embroiled in mathematical economics. To illustrate, assume that the possibility of actually collecting on a $1000 debt is 50%. This debt is worth $500 to the collector (face value x probability of collection). If you pay $600, the agency has earned $100 above the discounted value of your debt. My point: negotiate first! If negotiation doesn't work, your best bet (assuming that you can't pay) is probably bankruptcy. Credit counselling services are basically worthless and, in may cases, will do much more harm to your credit than delcaring bakruptcy. For those of you who feel that you were actually victims of FDCPA or FCRA violations, get yourself some lawyers! Both of these Acts provide for statutory (kind of like punitive) damages and, in may cases, attorney's fees as well.

I have just read about you plight with creditors and /or agencies reporting 'fresh' bureau debt to try to screw you for 7 more years. Here is the facts: A growing number of concerns has recently come to my attention regarding multiple listings for the same debt on credit bureaus. It is just yet another back door way to put pressure on you to pay your bill. The idea is that the creditor has listed it on your bureau. After a time frame, the creditor gives up trying to collect. So it then sells the debt to an agency. These agencies like to claim that since the debt was 'sold' outright to them -they are now the creditor and thus are first party direct creditor to debtor business. The fair debt collection practices actually only applies to hired professionals ( agency -or third party). Technically, a direct creditor is not bound by its laws. However, most direct creditors do adhere to the laws regarding it. Comsumers may have already heard from unruley collectors that they are not 'third party' and the act doesnt apply to them. However, whether companies who buy the debt are bound or not -that is a collection issue and an ownership of debt issue. It is NOT a credit issue. The law clearly stipulates that any debt may or may not be reported, but if and when it does, it stays on for 7 years (depending on state) from the DATE OF LAST ACTIVITY -which is the date it charged off or you last made a payment. whichever is soonest. It is absolutely NOT the date they decide to get around to reporting it. Creditors cannot sell debt back and forth and keep reporting it 100 times as 'new debt' so you now have 100 charge offs on your bureau for the same debt. This is what you do: Phone those butt munchers who listed it as 'new' on your bureau and ask them when the last payment date was on the file and charge off date from the creditor. If they tell you it was more than the allowable time ago (7yrs in ohio -depends on state law) tell them thankyou and you will 'resolve' the issue but need to see the contract you signed. Then hire a commercial lawyer and sue them. If the debt is still valid -still find out when the date of chrg off was , then deduce when it will go statute barred. Either you can wait and get it statute barred -or pay it. The whole point is that 3rd party companies cannot 'reset' the limitations clock because they bought the debt. Also -many agencies have gone to court to prove they are the 'creditor' and LOST . The court has ruled them to still be 3rd party because they do not offer credit and did not offer you any to begin with. They just collect debt. I hope this helps you

I have just read about you plight with creditors and /or agencies reporting 'fresh' bureau debt to try to screw you for 7 more years. Here is the facts: A growing number of concerns has recently come to my attention regarding multiple listings for the same debt on credit bureaus. It is just yet another back door way to put pressure on you to pay your bill. The idea is that the creditor has listed it on your bureau. After a time frame, the creditor gives up trying to collect. So it then sells the debt to an agency. These agencies like to claim that since the debt was 'sold' outright to them -they are now the creditor and thus are first party direct creditor to debtor business. The fair debt collection practices actually only applies to hired professionals ( agency -or third party). Technically, a direct creditor is not bound by its laws. However, most direct creditors do adhere to the laws regarding it. Comsumers may have already heard from unruley collectors that they are not 'third party' and the act doesnt apply to them. However, whether companies who buy the debt are bound or not -that is a collection issue and an ownership of debt issue. It is NOT a credit issue. The law clearly stipulates that any debt may or may not be reported, but if and when it does, it stays on for 7 years (depending on state) from the DATE OF LAST ACTIVITY -which is the date it charged off or you last made a payment. whichever is soonest. It is absolutely NOT the date they decide to get around to reporting it. Creditors cannot sell debt back and forth and keep reporting it 100 times as 'new debt' so you now have 100 charge offs on your bureau for the same debt. This is what you do: Phone those butt munchers who listed it as 'new' on your bureau and ask them when the last payment date was on the file and charge off date from the creditor. If they tell you it was more than the allowable time ago (7yrs in ohio -depends on state law) tell them thankyou and you will 'resolve' the issue but need to see the contract you signed. Then hire a commercial lawyer and sue them. If the debt is still valid -still find out when the date of chrg off was , then deduce when it will go statute barred. Either you can wait and get it statute barred -or pay it. The whole point is that 3rd party companies cannot 'reset' the limitations clock because they bought the debt. Also -many agencies have gone to court to prove they are the 'creditor' and LOST . The court has ruled them to still be 3rd party because they do not offer credit and did not offer you any to begin with. They just collect debt. I hope this helps you

I have just read about you plight with creditors and /or agencies reporting 'fresh' bureau debt to try to screw you for 7 more years. Here is the facts: A growing number of concerns has recently come to my attention regarding multiple listings for the same debt on credit bureaus. It is just yet another back door way to put pressure on you to pay your bill. The idea is that the creditor has listed it on your bureau. After a time frame, the creditor gives up trying to collect. So it then sells the debt to an agency. These agencies like to claim that since the debt was 'sold' outright to them -they are now the creditor and thus are first party direct creditor to debtor business. The fair debt collection practices actually only applies to hired professionals ( agency -or third party). Technically, a direct creditor is not bound by its laws. However, most direct creditors do adhere to the laws regarding it. Comsumers may have already heard from unruley collectors that they are not 'third party' and the act doesnt apply to them. However, whether companies who buy the debt are bound or not -that is a collection issue and an ownership of debt issue. It is NOT a credit issue. The law clearly stipulates that any debt may or may not be reported, but if and when it does, it stays on for 7 years (depending on state) from the DATE OF LAST ACTIVITY -which is the date it charged off or you last made a payment. whichever is soonest. It is absolutely NOT the date they decide to get around to reporting it. Creditors cannot sell debt back and forth and keep reporting it 100 times as 'new debt' so you now have 100 charge offs on your bureau for the same debt. This is what you do: Phone those butt munchers who listed it as 'new' on your bureau and ask them when the last payment date was on the file and charge off date from the creditor. If they tell you it was more than the allowable time ago (7yrs in ohio -depends on state law) tell them thankyou and you will 'resolve' the issue but need to see the contract you signed. Then hire a commercial lawyer and sue them. If the debt is still valid -still find out when the date of chrg off was , then deduce when it will go statute barred. Either you can wait and get it statute barred -or pay it. The whole point is that 3rd party companies cannot 'reset' the limitations clock because they bought the debt. Also -many agencies have gone to court to prove they are the 'creditor' and LOST . The court has ruled them to still be 3rd party because they do not offer credit and did not offer you any to begin with. They just collect debt. I hope this helps you

I have just read about you plight with creditors and /or agencies reporting 'fresh' bureau debt to try to screw you for 7 more years. Here is the facts: A growing number of concerns has recently come to my attention regarding multiple listings for the same debt on credit bureaus. It is just yet another back door way to put pressure on you to pay your bill. The idea is that the creditor has listed it on your bureau. After a time frame, the creditor gives up trying to collect. So it then sells the debt to an agency. These agencies like to claim that since the debt was 'sold' outright to them -they are now the creditor and thus are first party direct creditor to debtor business. The fair debt collection practices actually only applies to hired professionals ( agency -or third party). Technically, a direct creditor is not bound by its laws. However, most direct creditors do adhere to the laws regarding it. Comsumers may have already heard from unruley collectors that they are not 'third party' and the act doesnt apply to them. However, whether companies who buy the debt are bound or not -that is a collection issue and an ownership of debt issue. It is NOT a credit issue. The law clearly stipulates that any debt may or may not be reported, but if and when it does, it stays on for 7 years (depending on state) from the DATE OF LAST ACTIVITY -which is the date it charged off or you last made a payment. whichever is soonest. It is absolutely NOT the date they decide to get around to reporting it. Creditors cannot sell debt back and forth and keep reporting it 100 times as 'new debt' so you now have 100 charge offs on your bureau for the same debt. This is what you do: Phone those butt munchers who listed it as 'new' on your bureau and ask them when the last payment date was on the file and charge off date from the creditor. If they tell you it was more than the allowable time ago (7yrs in ohio -depends on state law) tell them thankyou and you will 'resolve' the issue but need to see the contract you signed. Then hire a commercial lawyer and sue them. If the debt is still valid -still find out when the date of chrg off was , then deduce when it will go statute barred. Either you can wait and get it statute barred -or pay it. The whole point is that 3rd party companies cannot 'reset' the limitations clock because they bought the debt. Also -many agencies have gone to court to prove they are the 'creditor' and LOST . The court has ruled them to still be 3rd party because they do not offer credit and did not offer you any to begin with. They just collect debt. I hope this helps you

i just want to say, i know how u feel, as you can read in my report, ive been screwed by midland cedit (ripley, ny one) and well it finally got paid a year later. well now they tell me it will remain on my credit report for 7 years-- a little hard trying to buy a house with a false judgement on you!! so, just when you think everything is ok, nco financial is trying to sue me for a loan that was over 10 years ago!! oh im sorry, they just reported it, so it makes it new..... so they say! they have a licence to steal, and thats about it. i am so tired of getting it without the vaseline! why is it, that instead of choosing the easy bankrupt way out, im getting more and more screwed by trying to make it right? i could go on and on-- i tell you, im am trying to put together a book on such getting screwed over, and if anyone would like to send me your story, feel free to. send it to po box 595, ripley , ny 14775. if youd like to help me with a donation to help with publishing, id appreciate it. i know i cant afford to advertise, because it costs almost 5000$ just to put it in a national paper, but we need to get even!! thanks for letting me vent, bob

TWO THINGS COLLECTION AGENCIES SHOULD NEVER BET ON, GETTING AWAY WITH HARRASSMENT AND THEIR THREATS, HEY I NEVER THOUGHT OF ARSON AS MY FIRST CHOICE, I THINK YOU MAY HAVE SOMETHING THERE RIC! OF COURSE MURDER DOES COME TO MIND FOR A SECOND CLOSE, IF I WERE TO CHOSE HOW I WANTED TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE BEHIND BARS. YOU MIGHT AS WELL GO ALL THE WAY, BECAUSE IT RANKS UP THERE JUST LIKE MURDER DOES. AN EASY SOLUTION TO THIS IS, AND AS MANY TIMES AS I HAVE SEEN SO MANY VICTOMIZED BY THESE LOW LIFE GOOD FOR NOTHING FREELOADING LEACHES, WHO THINK ITS RIGHT TO BUY ONES LIFE ON A PEICE OF PAPER , THEN FINISH TEARING IT TO SHREADS, LITTLE BY LITTLE UNTIL THEY CAN THREATEN TO TAKE YOU TO COURT AND THREATEN TO TAKE YOUR HOME, OR DRAG YOU INTO COURT, TO INTIMADATE YOU, THEN THEIR WRONG. NO A DAYS RIC MY FRIEND, MOST STATES ALLOW YOU TO RECORD ANY AND ALL CONVERSATION, TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE BUGS WHO DWELL IN ROTTING DUNG, AND THE MORE YOU GET THEM TO SAY, AND TREAT YOU SCHITT. THE MORE AN ATTORNEY WILL TAKE YOUR CASE. THERE IS ALSO THOSES STATES THAT DO NOT ALLOW UNDISCLOSED RECORDING OF CONVERSATIONS, SO WHEN MAKING A RECORDED MESSAGE FOR YOUR MACHINE, HAVE A WOMAN IN THE BACKGROUND SAY, THIS CALL MAY BE MONITERED, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE OR AS YOU SCREEN YOUR CALLS, THEREFORE THEY MAY NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID, AND BEGIN TO HARRASS YOU, AND THEN CLAIM THEY DID NOT, BUT THE PROOF IS ON THE TAPE. PROTECT YOURSELF WHEN IT COMES TO DUNG DWELLERS, THEY HAVE A WAY TO TURN THINGS AROUND TO HIDE THE STINCH THEY WEAR EVERYDAY. ME i WILL ONLY BET ON TWO THINGS IN THIS LIFETIME, WHICH HAS ALWAYS WORKED FOR ME. FIRST, MY MONEY, I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF GIVING IT TO A BUG WHO CRAWLS AROUND ALL DAY LOOKING TO FINISH A PILE OF SCHITT, NO OFFENSE. WHEN ITS MONTHS OLD. SECOND MY LAWYERS, WHOME I'VE ALWAYS PUT MY MONEY DONW ON IN THE RACE TO SURVIVE. ALL ATTORNEYS WHO DEAL WITH THESE KIND OF PEOPLE DO WORK ON CONTINGENCY BASE, OR WORK IT FOR THE PURE ENJOYMENT OF GIVING THEM WHAT THEY DONT WANT, A DAY IN FEDERAL COURT. MOST COLLECTION AGENCY'S CANT AFFORD ATTORNEYS WHO DO FEDERAL, TAKE IT FROM ME. THEY CANT. HITTING THEM WHERE IT HURTS, LIKE THEY WOULD YOU. JUST TO WATCH THEM EAT THAT SCHITT, THEY SEEM TO LIKE EVERY DAY.SCHITT HAPPENS TO THE BEST OF THEM. TRY IT, IT WORKS.

TWO THINGS COLLECTION AGENCIES SHOULD NEVER BET ON, GETTING AWAY WITH HARRASSMENT AND THEIR THREATS, HEY I NEVER THOUGHT OF ARSON AS MY FIRST CHOICE, I THINK YOU MAY HAVE SOMETHING THERE RIC! OF COURSE MURDER DOES COME TO MIND FOR A SECOND CLOSE, IF I WERE TO CHOSE HOW I WANTED TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE BEHIND BARS. YOU MIGHT AS WELL GO ALL THE WAY, BECAUSE IT RANKS UP THERE JUST LIKE MURDER DOES. AN EASY SOLUTION TO THIS IS, AND AS MANY TIMES AS I HAVE SEEN SO MANY VICTOMIZED BY THESE LOW LIFE GOOD FOR NOTHING FREELOADING LEACHES, WHO THINK ITS RIGHT TO BUY ONES LIFE ON A PEICE OF PAPER , THEN FINISH TEARING IT TO SHREADS, LITTLE BY LITTLE UNTIL THEY CAN THREATEN TO TAKE YOU TO COURT AND THREATEN TO TAKE YOUR HOME, OR DRAG YOU INTO COURT, TO INTIMADATE YOU, THEN THEIR WRONG. NO A DAYS RIC MY FRIEND, MOST STATES ALLOW YOU TO RECORD ANY AND ALL CONVERSATION, TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE BUGS WHO DWELL IN ROTTING DUNG, AND THE MORE YOU GET THEM TO SAY, AND TREAT YOU SCHITT. THE MORE AN ATTORNEY WILL TAKE YOUR CASE. THERE IS ALSO THOSES STATES THAT DO NOT ALLOW UNDISCLOSED RECORDING OF CONVERSATIONS, SO WHEN MAKING A RECORDED MESSAGE FOR YOUR MACHINE, HAVE A WOMAN IN THE BACKGROUND SAY, THIS CALL MAY BE MONITERED, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE OR AS YOU SCREEN YOUR CALLS, THEREFORE THEY MAY NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID, AND BEGIN TO HARRASS YOU, AND THEN CLAIM THEY DID NOT, BUT THE PROOF IS ON THE TAPE. PROTECT YOURSELF WHEN IT COMES TO DUNG DWELLERS, THEY HAVE A WAY TO TURN THINGS AROUND TO HIDE THE STINCH THEY WEAR EVERYDAY. ME i WILL ONLY BET ON TWO THINGS IN THIS LIFETIME, WHICH HAS ALWAYS WORKED FOR ME. FIRST, MY MONEY, I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF GIVING IT TO A BUG WHO CRAWLS AROUND ALL DAY LOOKING TO FINISH A PILE OF SCHITT, NO OFFENSE. WHEN ITS MONTHS OLD. SECOND MY LAWYERS, WHOME I'VE ALWAYS PUT MY MONEY DONW ON IN THE RACE TO SURVIVE. ALL ATTORNEYS WHO DEAL WITH THESE KIND OF PEOPLE DO WORK ON CONTINGENCY BASE, OR WORK IT FOR THE PURE ENJOYMENT OF GIVING THEM WHAT THEY DONT WANT, A DAY IN FEDERAL COURT. MOST COLLECTION AGENCY'S CANT AFFORD ATTORNEYS WHO DO FEDERAL, TAKE IT FROM ME. THEY CANT. HITTING THEM WHERE IT HURTS, LIKE THEY WOULD YOU. JUST TO WATCH THEM EAT THAT SCHITT, THEY SEEM TO LIKE EVERY DAY.SCHITT HAPPENS TO THE BEST OF THEM. TRY IT, IT WORKS.

TWO THINGS COLLECTION AGENCIES SHOULD NEVER BET ON, GETTING AWAY WITH HARRASSMENT AND THEIR THREATS, HEY I NEVER THOUGHT OF ARSON AS MY FIRST CHOICE, I THINK YOU MAY HAVE SOMETHING THERE RIC! OF COURSE MURDER DOES COME TO MIND FOR A SECOND CLOSE, IF I WERE TO CHOSE HOW I WANTED TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE BEHIND BARS. YOU MIGHT AS WELL GO ALL THE WAY, BECAUSE IT RANKS UP THERE JUST LIKE MURDER DOES. AN EASY SOLUTION TO THIS IS, AND AS MANY TIMES AS I HAVE SEEN SO MANY VICTOMIZED BY THESE LOW LIFE GOOD FOR NOTHING FREELOADING LEACHES, WHO THINK ITS RIGHT TO BUY ONES LIFE ON A PEICE OF PAPER , THEN FINISH TEARING IT TO SHREADS, LITTLE BY LITTLE UNTIL THEY CAN THREATEN TO TAKE YOU TO COURT AND THREATEN TO TAKE YOUR HOME, OR DRAG YOU INTO COURT, TO INTIMADATE YOU, THEN THEIR WRONG. NO A DAYS RIC MY FRIEND, MOST STATES ALLOW YOU TO RECORD ANY AND ALL CONVERSATION, TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE BUGS WHO DWELL IN ROTTING DUNG, AND THE MORE YOU GET THEM TO SAY, AND TREAT YOU SCHITT. THE MORE AN ATTORNEY WILL TAKE YOUR CASE. THERE IS ALSO THOSES STATES THAT DO NOT ALLOW UNDISCLOSED RECORDING OF CONVERSATIONS, SO WHEN MAKING A RECORDED MESSAGE FOR YOUR MACHINE, HAVE A WOMAN IN THE BACKGROUND SAY, THIS CALL MAY BE MONITERED, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE OR AS YOU SCREEN YOUR CALLS, THEREFORE THEY MAY NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID, AND BEGIN TO HARRASS YOU, AND THEN CLAIM THEY DID NOT, BUT THE PROOF IS ON THE TAPE. PROTECT YOURSELF WHEN IT COMES TO DUNG DWELLERS, THEY HAVE A WAY TO TURN THINGS AROUND TO HIDE THE STINCH THEY WEAR EVERYDAY. ME i WILL ONLY BET ON TWO THINGS IN THIS LIFETIME, WHICH HAS ALWAYS WORKED FOR ME. FIRST, MY MONEY, I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF GIVING IT TO A BUG WHO CRAWLS AROUND ALL DAY LOOKING TO FINISH A PILE OF SCHITT, NO OFFENSE. WHEN ITS MONTHS OLD. SECOND MY LAWYERS, WHOME I'VE ALWAYS PUT MY MONEY DONW ON IN THE RACE TO SURVIVE. ALL ATTORNEYS WHO DEAL WITH THESE KIND OF PEOPLE DO WORK ON CONTINGENCY BASE, OR WORK IT FOR THE PURE ENJOYMENT OF GIVING THEM WHAT THEY DONT WANT, A DAY IN FEDERAL COURT. MOST COLLECTION AGENCY'S CANT AFFORD ATTORNEYS WHO DO FEDERAL, TAKE IT FROM ME. THEY CANT. HITTING THEM WHERE IT HURTS, LIKE THEY WOULD YOU. JUST TO WATCH THEM EAT THAT SCHITT, THEY SEEM TO LIKE EVERY DAY.SCHITT HAPPENS TO THE BEST OF THEM. TRY IT, IT WORKS.

Tom: Thankyou for your candid reply. As a consumer myself, I understand how hard it is to get good rates and sometimes feel as though lenders have us at their mercy. Let me talk for a minuite about paid charge offs and the bad credit that appears for 7 years afterward. The Better Business Bureau is supposed to be a consumer friendly "Moral Bureau' that houses complaints about companies. However what the reality is - the Bureau charges companies fees to be its member. So as will all businesses, the golden rule is to never bite the hand that feeds you. So what can the BBB do when it gets a complaint against a golden client? Well it just cant sit there and do nothing -or us consumers would call it rigged and it would have no credibility. If the BBB has no credibility -then why would companies pay big $$$ in fees every year to belong to it? They pay the fees so they can claim to consumers that their business is legit -and as proof they have a 'clean record'. However, the term 'clean record' in this instance becomes dubious at best. What ends up happening is that the BBB puts its best interests at heart. It plays both sides of the fence to appear to be legit to consumers and 'report' bad businesses -but on the other hand offers a sneaky way out to businesses who do get complaints. If a consumer complains of ill treatment and threatens suit and lodges complaint with the BBB, the bureau then hurries to their client and proposes to 'settle ' or deal with the consumer to end the dispute. When that is arranged, the complaint is wiped out as though it never happened!!!!!!! Therefore , what companies do is treat consumers like crap -and have figured out that only a small percentage lodge complaint with the BBB -then even those are hushed up and settled . So the business goes on treating us like crap - stating for all to hear that they have " A clean Record' -thus never have to change its business practices. My point in all this is this: Why should we as consumers have to pay for our debt crimes 7 years after we pay for it??? business dont. They dont get the record at all. So no -if you have paid a debt - dispute it tooth and nail. As a long seving collector,i can tell you that we dont give a hoot about your credit . The only reason why creditors file with the bureau is actually a backdoor way to collect!! Many , many people pay their long outstanding bills because its on their bureau. Otherwize they wouldnt pay at all. However, after you pay your bill , you may notice you are discarded like yesterdays news. What's in it for the company now? So you may find problems in getting paid in full letters . You might get delays in getting it fixed on your bureau as paid. Why? There is no money in it for us as creditors to do these things. Thus if there is an error , we dont make it a high priority. If your account was charged off -no need to suck up because you arent our customer anymore -and if you have paid the bill -you dont owe us anything . With that being said - if the consumer goes now to the bureau and fights that it should have never been put there in the first place and you paid it in protest , now the bureau sends the info back to the creditor for verification. However, the tables have turned. The consumer wants something now -not the creditor. The creditor has to now reply to the dispute which takes manpower -thus money!!!! - that will not lead to more revenue. Even if the creditor replies within the 30 days -pound away at them again. Dispute it again -and again . Sooner or later it has cost the creditor more and more to keep responding in paperwork and labour that they just give up. This if they respond at all to the first dispute. Remember, if a creditor does not respond to a dispute within 30 days -it MUST come off the bureau as though it was never there. As for paying in full with promise to delete -most collectors dont have the power to make that decision. But i have been asked in the past and i feel its bribery. The thing for consumers is to be carefull not to get a lying collector who pulls a bait and switch -or is vague about the commitment. I would honestly just pay then dispute with bureau because the consumer can get stuff removed on their own without the creditor with the dispute method. However, make sure you whine and moan to high heaven that you dispute the bill -even as you are paying in full. Then wait until its reported as paid , then dispute. When the creditor gets the notice from the bureau and looks in the notes -he will see it was a 'disputed' file and wont want to re open the can of worms. I hope this helps you

I agree...I too have run into a few debts. My main beef is the reporting process. I am more than willing to own up and pay a debt. But, I won't pay a debt if it will remain on my credit. I always opt for a deletion upon full payment. Consumers would be willing to cooperate more if the listing would be removed permanently. If I was a collector, I would list some pros of paying off the debt. I would speak about the importance of credit and paying this off would prove positive in the future. I would actually talk to the consumer and let them know that with a removal of this negative listing, getting a decent vehicle from a prime lender instead of sub-prime, would be much easier. Otherwise, without deletion of the account, I and many other consumers will not pay one red penny. I do like your points though. You as a collector have demonstrated to me that you do care. You have to make ends meet like all of us. I agree that your industry serves a very important role for this economy. Compare it to truck drivers. Without them, you wouldn't receive goods. Without collectors, companies wouldn't receive their monies. Thus, the good consumers foot the bill. Eventually, the company looses too much money and goes bankrupt. I am a debtor. I have owned up to all my bills. I haven't tried the lawsuit route or dispute process by hiring credit repair companies. The only way I would do that is if the listing is paid collection status and I wanted it remove. Otherwise, I pay it off and opt for deletion. Would you consider this immoral? As a collector, do you agree that talking to consumers and offering deletions might increase sales? Thanks for your input.

I am a career collections professional. I have worked in first party (lenders) and third party (collection agencies) for 16 years. I can perhaps shed some light for consumers on collections and what is probably ignored the most. The collection agent themselves. Collection agents are people like you and I who did not grow up wanting to go to 'collector school' but ended up in the industry. The requirement to be a collector is to have a good command of English, basic arithmetic, and be fairly articulate on the phone. The REAL requirements however seem to be dedication to repetitive phone calls, handling high stress, and making quotas. Like any profession, the longer you work in the industry, the more you understand the game and the way it works from the creditor AND the consumers point of view. When a Collector starts in the industry, he is just like any one else in society. He/she pays his bills or perhaps or has had a couple of deliquincies -but usually feels a little bad about it. Once they get on the phone , they call people who do not pay their bills. Its simple. The first while may be intimidating for the new collector to actually ask someone to pay a bill they legally owe. Its sensitive to ask someone about their personal finances. Soon however, the new collector will deal with someone who swears at them and hangs up on them. Try to imagine someone doing that to you. Its not a good feeling. They are just doing a job and dont know the consumer from Adam or Eve. New collectors are introduced to a long long history of abuse by consumers making exuse after exuse for not paying a bill. They get yelled at -screamed and hung up on. They then may finally get someone to actually agree to pay the bill they should have been responsible to pay months (or perhaps years) ago. Then the person just doesnt pay. They lied. It is quite a depressing thing to go thru. Collectors are human beings. It hardens the collector. The new collector starts to 'toughen up' and stop listing to exuses and just demands payment. If you can imagine doing a job where the people you phone dont want to talk to you -lie to you , and swear at you all day long, its probably not too difficult to understand that we as normal human beings will get completely hardened after a while to protect ourselves emotionally. Meanwhile, collections was nothing more nor will ever be anything more than a sales job where the collector 'dials for dollars' . Each collector has a range of files of deliquint accounts and needs to make a quota or else they will literally get fired. It is sad but the bald faced truth is that exactly. Every single collection job i have ever taken has a quota and if it isnt met on a regular basis, your fired. So all it becomes is a numbers game. Each consumer thinks that they collection guy is phoning them alone and their situation is the one that counts. However, for the collector its just a job, and s/he either wants the consumer to just either pay or not -then hurry on to the next phone call. The industry standard is usually around 125 calls per day. The statistics show that the more phone calls made, the higher the dollars collected. Then there is the contact rate. Out of the 125 calls maybe the collector will actually get to talk to 5 or 6 consumers a day. This is due to endless answering machines and other people answering the phone screening calls . There is even consumers who have the gall to answer -but then DENY it is them -so they dont have to talk to the collector. So when the collector finally .... finally actually gets ahold of someone -s/he had better make it count. The rest is about pressure to hit quotas and personality. If the collector is under duress to make quota because they are behind -they will pressure the consumer to pay up and might be quite rude about it as they finally have someone on the phone. The consumer is competely unaware of how the industry works and cant understand why this collector is 'harassing' them with such a tone. The good news for the consumer is that collectors who harass and threaten do not statistically make the most money. They are in constant trouble with management -and the company does in fact have to comply with state and federal statute regarding Fair Debt Practices, and believe it or not -take it VERY SEROIUSLY. The cult of personality is very important in collections and seems to follow this pattern : At first the New Collector is nice and is hurt easily by lying and abusive consumers . This lasts about a year. Secondly, After a year or so the Collector swings the other way and treats consumers like garbage -mostly as way to protect himself against getting yelled at while doing his job. Some of these collectors also start to understand all the collection laws and loopholes and they themselves become 'professional debtors' and stop paying their bills!!!! The third phase happens after the collector has been in the industy 10 years or more. They realize they have no actual power to make anyone pay - they just tell people what their comany or client (third party ) rights are under law if they dont. They 'present a case ' to the consumer about client right to lawsuit and credit bureau which is true. It is not a 'threat' -its just a sales pitch. All creditors DO have the right to lawsuit -and subsequent garnishment -depending on state etc... The consumer is left to decide to pay or not. If they dont - we move on to the next guy who probably will. If bill collectors all acted this way and tell consumers its not personal -just business and the collector themselves dont take the lying personally, they statistically generate much more revenue and consumers often leave the conversation fairly informed . There is no reason for the yelling and threatening consumers. The people who need to get yelled at and threatened have no intention of paying 99 out of 100 times anyway. Let the courts handle them. ( if the balance warrents court action) For the consumer, here are some helpfull tips: If you owe less than $500 to any one company -it will probably never ever see the inside of a court room. There are legal limits that most companies wont go to court for -so dont buy the collector 'threatening lawsuit' 'garnishment' and all this other balony. Legal action is the creditors RIGHT -but if the creditor actually does that or not is dubious for small amounts. It costs money in serving papers and filing fees and attorny fees that the company or agency has to cough up -which is extra loss on top of the debt -to try to get judgement. If you have a collector 'harassing' you - make up your mind if you want to pay -if so tell the collector what you can pay. If he doesnt like it -tell him never to call you again by phone or writing. The Fair Debt Collection Act requires the bill collector to cease and desist trying to contact you in any way -thru employment or relatives or anything. If they ignore your request and try to call -they will get fired and this is TRULY enforced. I have never in my 16 years ever called someone again after they formally announced that they do not ever wished to be contacted again. But this is only for debt under $500 (generally) -that is because the cease and desist does not stop creditors from taking lawsuit action to get judgement. And once judgement is granted -depending on the state -the creditor can in fact seize assets freeze bank accounts and garnish wages. Do not ever , ever fall for the 'consumer protection ' scams that are out there. These companies tell you that they can stop collection calls and reorganize your debt. Well here is the bad news: Under federal statute, there are only 2 common ways a consumer can stop legal action for a bill legally owed. Both of these fall within the sections of the Bankruptcy Act under Chapter 7 and Chapter 13. Both need to be signed off by the court system -either a judge or a Bankruptcy attorney approved by the state. The costs for attorny and costs range to about $1800. Chapter 7 involves wiping out debt altogether -but the consumer must convince the court he has no way of paying at all. Chapter 13 involves reorganizing debt. The court will analyze your ability to pay and come up with a plan to repay your creditors within a set period (up to 5 years) - and your creditors can do nothing about it . They can petition against the chapter 13 , but i have never heard of one creditor suceeding -nor even trying to challenge it in the first place. With that in mind , these non lawyers come along and want a piece of the chapter 13 dollar. They call themselves consumer credit councellors. They charge the consumer a fee to take all their debt into a pool, make the consumer contribute so much per month , and write cease and desist letters to creditors . Most bills are under the 'lawsuit' amount so creditors accept the payments from the credit councellors -which add up to about nothing. The consumer is found to contribute roughy 300 per month into the pool -which the councellor takes a hefty cut off the top for his 'services' labled 'non profit' or otherwise. Thus the remaining $180 or whatever is then divided up between 10 or so creditors and we can all expect $10 per month or usually $20 in 2 month 'dispersements' . This then takes the consumer years and years to pay off -while the councellor keeps making a cut . Very few people actually stick it out for 5 years and default. To combat this , much of the 'fees' for the service come at the beginning of the service so that when the consumers bails out of the $300 payments for similiar reasons to why he cant pay his bills in the first place, the only person who made any cash at all -was the credit councellor!!! Most people who try this method default within a year -most simply just go back and try to deal with the creditor -because they soon realize that they would have had 100% of all that money going to their debt if they just paid it to the creditor!!! However, what is most alarming is the 'unspoken' truth that the councellor fails to tell the scared and deperate consumer...... He is not a Bankruptcy Attorney. Therefore he has no power whatsoever to demand the creditor not sue the consumer. When someone tells me they are going to consumer councelling (if they owe more than $500 ) -i tell them great! but as your creditor -i reject the proposal and will see u in court. Every consumer who hears that gets confused and cant understand it -like consumer credit councellors have a magic wand to stop lawsuits. Secondly, anything that the consumer councellor can do -the consumer himself can do! He can take all his debts into a pool, write cease and desist letters to his creditors , then parcel out payments to creditors monthy. The creditor can only sue -or accept payment. The difference is that 100% of the money will go to the debt. No middle man doing nothing really -except collecting a fat fee. I cant count the number of consumers who call me saying they want to settle their debt -all because they went into consumer councelling and started out owing $5000 dollars and after a year still owe $4500 - despite paying $300 a month. Thirdly is the credit. When an account is written off as a bad debt -it is reported to one or more or all of the 3 major credit bureaus. It is recorded as a 'charge off' That report runs monthy for 7 years from the date of the last activity -which will be the last payment date -or if that was beforehand -the date the company declared to the IRS as bad debt and 'wrote it off' Paying monthy payments on that debt will not change the status of the debt at the bureaus. It will simply indicated it is a bad debt with a balance owed until it has a zero balance. The only way to change that is to settle in full or pay in full to get the debt to a zero balance. Then it is reported as paid and will help your credit. So paying small payments on a charged off account to a consumer credit councellor -or even to the creditor actually DELAYS the time it takes to get the debt to a zero balance. The bad debt will not come off your bureau until it is 7 years from the 'date of last activity' (last payment date counts as this) -NOT the date of charge off as commonly thought. So if it takes 10 years for you to pay it off - count on 7 years AFTER THAT before it comes off your bureau. If fact -it is worse for the consumer to pay a debt that is 4 or more years old. If it is 4 years old -the consumer would have been sued by now if the creditor had decided to do so . So it is sitting somewhere in agency -or back to the creditor again -or out to another agency bouncing around year after year. The consumers credit has been shot for 4 years -so why not just let it sit for another 3 years? Depending on state, the statute of limititaions will only allow 7 years of NON PAYMENT on a debt (without judgement)-then it must be removed as though the consumer NEVER OWED IT. So why would a consumer make a payment on a debt 5 or 6 years old -thus 'resetting' the clock for another 7 years of bad credit? Its a conflict of interest. Paying an old debt is not in the interest of the consumer -and the law needs to change to help the consumer in this regard. The best thing for consumers to do is to get to settlement or balance in full with one creditor,rather than divide up the money between 5 of them. They all say charge off anyway... why not stop the bleeding one at time sooner then have them all bleed for the same long time? So in summary : Collector are people like you and I who have horrible jobs and deal with somewhat irresponsible people who often abuse the system and have no intention of paying which in turn makes the collector treat reasonable consumers who may have a legitimate reason (death in the family , unexpected loss of job etc) worse than they normally would -which pisses these decent people off in return. Consumers ultimetly decide if they want to pay and how - not the collector -and the consumer can demand they shut up and never contact them again. Bankrupty chp 7 and 13 are to help consumers get out from under incredible pressure and suffering quality of life. Consumer credit councellors are middlemen who have no actual function that the consumer cant do themselves for free. Paying off one debt at a time quicky is much better for the consumer credit wize than paying small sums to all creditors. Paying a debt that is more than 4 years old without payment is a conflict of interest to the consumer and hurts them more than it helps. Now remember that there are exceptions to the rule such as getting a loan requires paying off all debt -where the consumer is better of to pay even if old. I hope that i have helped consumers who are mad at the collection and credit process.

Ok I am having the same problem with All-tell a phone company I used in 1996 I finally got eqifax to take it off my report but now its on there again saying opened 2001 different account number. I also have SBC trying to collect with 4 different collection accounts for 238.00 for DSL I never ordered. Palisades which I see is a huge BS company for AT&T I never had as well a cavalry for sprint which I never had. I have sent letters to all these companies demanding that they verify the debt and if they could not to remove it. But they wont and have never contacted me in anyway. So how do I sue? I thought of suing in small claims court. But then how do I collect from them afterwards?? I would love to sue just for the principal of the whole situation. Someone please help me, I am trying to make all this right but the illegal tactics they are doing is wrong and I agree with the last author to SUE SUE SUE. They sure as he!! would sue us if the chance arose. Someone let me know how to get this started or some info would be great

I pay my bills and I still get collection letters for stuff I've never heard of and when I call the collection agency - typically I'm verbally abused. So . . . . I've decided to take the high road and have some fun in the process. Once you learn all the ins and outs of Credit Collection, it's kinda fun to sue them and you can almost make a living at it.

I pay my bills and I still get collection letters for stuff I've never heard of and when I call the collection agency - typically I'm verbally abused. So . . . . I've decided to take the high road and have some fun in the process. Once you learn all the ins and outs of Credit Collection, it's kinda fun to sue them and you can almost make a living at it.

I pay my bills and I still get collection letters for stuff I've never heard of and when I call the collection agency - typically I'm verbally abused. So . . . . I've decided to take the high road and have some fun in the process. Once you learn all the ins and outs of Credit Collection, it's kinda fun to sue them and you can almost make a living at it.

Have you considered just paying your bills? If you are strapped for cash take all that extra energy you have and go get yourself a 2nd/part time job so you can re-pay your obligations. I did it myself 3 years ago -- stop making excuses.

Debt is the easy to fall into, debt-free is a long and tasking road! If you legitimately owe on a bill, regardless of who owns the account, it's in your best interest to pay it or make some type of negotiations with them to settle it. Credit is something we all need now-a-days, if you want a better future, it's wise to pay for your past! CA's use anything they can to collect, but from my own experiences, they don't continue any illegal tactics if they are told the right way...Simply put, request a paper bill, tell them you do not want any more calls from them (mail corispondence (SP) only) and let them know you are keeping written records of all collection calls... I've followed this, no more harassing calls! Occasionally I've had some CA's have their sister agencies try to collect the same debt from me (different name and number, in hopes they won't be found out...), but a simple drafted letter, containing numbers to several attorney's along with Federal laws spelled out for them puts a quick end to it! The laws we have in place are not to allow people to manipulate debt, but to give them a fair chance to rebuild from their mistakes! My advice to Ric is instead of blowing something up, try burning your debts by PAYING THEM! If the CA refuses a payment plan, fine...Refuse to pay them, but make some attempt to satisfy your past...Otherwise you're no better than they are, and that's the reality of it!

I RECENTLY CHECKED MY CREDIT REPORT AND SAW A COLLECTION FROM RJM I HAD NO CLUE AS TO WHAT IT COULD BE. I CALLED RJM TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WAS TOLD IT WAS A FINGERHUT BILL I DID AT ONE TIME HAVE AN ACCT. WITH FINGERHUT BUT PAID IT OFF ON TIME YEARS AGO. I EXPLAINED THIS TO THE WOMEN FROM RJM SHE SAID SHE WOULD INVESTIGATE IT AND CALL ME THE NEXT DAY. SHE DID CALL ME AND APOLIGIZE FOR THEM LISTING IT ON MY CREDIT REPORT AND INFORMED ME THAT IT WAS COMING OFF SHE ALSO FAXED ME A LETTER SAYING IT WAS BEING DELETED OFF MY REPORT. SHE ALSO TOLD ME THAT RJM HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO BUY OLD DEBT THAT FINGERHUT TOLD THEM THEY HAD WHICH WAS REALLY NO DEBT AT ALL AND THAT SHE WAS VERY SORRY FOR MY INCONVIENCE. IT SEEMS RJM GOT RIPPED OFF WHEN THEY PURCHASED ALL THIS FALSE INFORMATION FROM FINGERHUT.

Okay, I am like most people and I get stuff in the mail from a variety of Collection Agencies. However, in my case, it's not because I owed someone some money, but rather they are trying to collect money not due them. There are several attorneys out there who specialize in Fair Debt Collection Practices Act Violations and they are very good at what they do. Most collection agencies know who they are and you can generally do well with them. JBC seems to have the most fun in "creating" debts that never existed. Fortunately there are attorneys out there like Chris Livingston in NC who just love it when this happens. It's a win-win situation for the him and I. The newer tactic seems to threaten litigation and then nothing - check the FTC - this is a serious no-no and you can get $1,000 for each case you file - nice huh? And that is just the statutory damages - most of the collection agencies will settle for higher amounts to keep it out of the court room. They don't want some lawyer who knows what to look for snooping in their files. So, how do you get back at them you ask? SUE SUE SUE SUE SUE After a while, you'll figure out how to do it yourself and then the fun really begin. You can almost make a living suing collection agencies. Not don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about if you have a litigimate debt and you're trying to be a deadbeat. On the other hand, you don't have to be abused either. Good luck and happy collection agency hunting.

Jim, you wrote: RJM is not a collection agency. We purchase the debt from the original creditor. Therefor we are collecting for outselves not an outside party. We follow all FDCPA regulations. We do not make harassing phone calls, we don't make outgoing phone calls at all. We send letters and the consumer calls us. If people would just pay their bills to begin with, they wouldn't be sent to collections. The fact that someone would consider felony arson as a means of solving their problems obviously proves they are mentally unstable. PAY YOUR BILLS AND YOU WON"T HAVE PEOPLE CALLING YOU TO COLLECT ON THEM!!! Jim - Syosset, New York U.S.A. First of all you are a debt collection agency. Second of all, you do make outgoing phone calls. How do I know? A debt collector at your service claimed to be a lawyer trying to sue me, and he did not call me - he called my parents, who live in Virginia not Florida where I reside. To get them to try and give me my contact info, he at first played nice and told them that I had requested some information and he was trying to send it to me. They refused to give out the info. So he kept calling, over and over and over again - claiming I had received paperwork. If, as you claim, you send paperwork and then we call you - that does not explain how this man started calling my parents three weeks before I received any paperwork. MBNA only submitted my account to RJM about four weeks ago, and I received the paperwork about five days ago. Finally, two days ago, he called my mom and told her that he was a lawyer, and that I had 24 hours to contact him - and then he was turning it over to the state attorneys to deal with. She did not know he was a creditor, she was told he was workign with a law firm - and when she inquired what was going on, he told her that I was in a bit of trouble and I had better call him. She was worried sick, and at her age its not good for her to be as worried as she was. She called me crying, saying that I was in trouble and she wanted to know why - she feared the worst - from IRS problems (which I dont have) to lord who knows, and I assured her I was not going to jail for a crime. I also told her that this guy was wrong - I did not request paperwork and I only received it just days earlier - and RJM had only been in possession of my account for a short while. Since I was planning to repay 3/4 of the debt in March when I will be getting a significant grant for college, I felt it was rude and unnerving that this man wanted his commission so bad that he was calling my parents first of all - and second he was telling them that I was in trouble and needed to call him. If, as you claim, we are supposed to call you and you don't make outgoing calls, then how do you explain why this man called my parents so many times? I was upset, and called him back and told him that he would be expecting a letter in the mail from me (which I have sent to him and MBNA) that (1) ordered him to stop calling my parents and harassing them and (2) I planned on repaying the debt when the funds became available in March. I know the laws under the Fair Debt Colletion Act, and I also have a friend who works in debt collection, and I know the tricks and the ploys they use to twist your hands to get you to pay, which is what they were trying to do by harassing my parents. I also know that the debt collection agencies like RJM are pure profit industries - you buy our debts for next to nothing - pennies to the dollar even, from our debtors, and then you try to reap in the entire repayment process- and you also charge us for double jeapardy - meaning that your marks against us and the original debtors marks against us both appear in our credit report. Thats illegal.

This is a copy of the letter of complaint I sent to our friends at Asset Acceptance LLC. They never sent me anything in the mail, I found it on my credit report. BASTARDS! They will go straight to hell! See ya there..... January 23, 2005 Asset Acceptance LLC To whom it may concern, Upon receiving my online credit report I discovered an inaccurate, delinquent charge from an unfamiliar creditor i.e. Asset Acceptance LLC. Having never been extended credit or been given any written notice of debt, or any subsequent explanation as to the origin or nature of the initial charge. Having a history of impeccable credit I became concerned that perhaps an error had been made. Upon further investigation of Asset Acceptance LLC, found a history of questionable and suspect business practices resulting in a series of legal inquiries and litigation. The common pattern seems to be innocent consumers discovering unexplained discrepancies in their credit histories. These phantom debts appear to already be in the collection phase without any documentation as to the original creditor. Asset Acceptance LLC refuses disclosure of basic information to the consumer yet reports payment delinquency to credit reporting agencies such as yourselves. I have no intention of blindly paying a debt simply because it appears on my credit report. Any respectable financial institution would be forthcoming with sufficient documentation in order to clarify the validity of the said charges. Any information or assistance you could offer would be greatly appreciated. I am forwarding a copy of this letter to the Better Business Bureau, the Fair Trade Commission and Asset Acceptance LLC. I am requesting full disclosure of information as to the origin of these charges i.e. date of purchase, original creditor and documentation stating these facts. I have a right to this information, if you are unable to provide it then I demand that charges be removed from my credit history at once.

In it you must have for proof as the debt stating you have no idea what it is for. I would also explain the conversations you have had and how no such account exists. Then in the end of the letter I would demand it be immediately deleted. You then immediately file a dispute with the credit bureaus as 'not mine'. If they refuse to respond then file complaints with the ACA at collector.com or file complaints with their BBB and the attorney general in their state.

My credit report showed a deliquent account from Palisade collections for an old (1999) ATT account. I did not have an account directly with ATT, but with SW Bell. But some of my long distance was billed separetly by ATT. I did not find out about this until I got my credit report recently. I am trying to dig through my old bills to see if there is an outstanding balance, because I may owe it. It's only $38. My only problem is that I have called Palisade and ATT and neither can provide any evidence that this account ever existed, or whether I have an outstanding/unpaid balance. ATT could not even confirm that this account was sent to a collection agency. And the "ATT Account Number" that Palisades provided could not be confirmed as a valid account by ATT--I talked to virtually every department at ATT and no one had record of me, at the address, or phone number in question. So my problem is this: why should I trust that I owe money, if no one has proof? What are the collection agencies obligated by law to provide to consumers that proves there is an outstanding debt?

My credit report showed a deliquent account from Palisade collections for an old (1999) ATT account. I did not have an account directly with ATT, but with SW Bell. But some of my long distance was billed separetly by ATT. I did not find out about this until I got my credit report recently. I am trying to dig through my old bills to see if there is an outstanding balance, because I may owe it. It's only $38. My only problem is that I have called Palisade and ATT and neither can provide any evidence that this account ever existed, or whether I have an outstanding/unpaid balance. ATT could not even confirm that this account was sent to a collection agency. And the "ATT Account Number" that Palisades provided could not be confirmed as a valid account by ATT--I talked to virtually every department at ATT and no one had record of me, at the address, or phone number in question. So my problem is this: why should I trust that I owe money, if no one has proof? What are the collection agencies obligated by law to provide to consumers that proves there is an outstanding debt?

somebody in one of the comments said: Frequently the representatives of these agencies clearly lack the social skills to direct their "life's work" and said energy to something more positive. A mistake that only a severely misguided individual would make, in terms of career choice -- so if you have been a victim of any of these unscrupulous, harassing, misinformed individuals remember "consider the source." I know many, many people with multiple college degrees that find themselves in collections because they either cant find a job in their field or because a job in their field pays ALOT less than a bill collecting job. Its easy to stereotype bill collectors as ignorant people who cant do anything else, but then again that would be no better than stereo typing a debtor as a deadbeat that doesnt want to pay their bills. Most bill collectors i know seperate people who owe money from people who are "debtors" People who owe money and have the desire to pay it are one thing. People who run up 20k credit cards and curse you out the very second you say why you are calling is a completely different animal. A debtor is the person that refuses to even discuss their debt without cursing at you from the opening hello. Or somebody who owes 5k, on a credit card and just bought a brand new mustang and cries broke when you contact them. These are debtors.

i understand where everyone is coming from on both sides. no, no one should say that arson is the answer, but read it again. he's not threatening he's stating what he would like to do. there is a legal difference. and if someone else does it, how small must the mind be to take suggestions from a thread? didn't they try that on ozzy? anyways, onward and forward, i think that everyone is forgetting the bottom line of the fdcpa and the fcra. it has nothing to do with the underlying debt, it is in place to keep the collection agencies and the CRA's within boundaries. if someone was to kill, even if they were provoked they would still be criminally liable. same thing here. although the debt may or may not be valid, they still must stay within the federal and state guidelines or they MUST be held liable. unlike PI and tort which has taken off like wildfire, fdcpa and fcra have been slow leaving the gate, but it will catch on. just you wait. just my opinions and thanks for listening. o yes also i am a jd awaiting results of FL bar.

i understand where everyone is coming from on both sides. no, no one should say that arson is the answer, but read it again. he's not threatening he's stating what he would like to do. there is a legal difference. and if someone else does it, how small must the mind be to take suggestions from a thread? didn't they try that on ozzy? anyways, onward and forward, i think that everyone is forgetting the bottom line of the fdcpa and the fcra. it has nothing to do with the underlying debt, it is in place to keep the collection agencies and the CRA's within boundaries. if someone was to kill, even if they were provoked they would still be criminally liable. same thing here. although the debt may or may not be valid, they still must stay within the federal and state guidelines or they MUST be held liable. unlike PI and tort which has taken off like wildfire, fdcpa and fcra have been slow leaving the gate, but it will catch on. just you wait. just my opinions and thanks for listening. o yes also i am a jd awaiting results of FL bar.

i understand where everyone is coming from on both sides. no, no one should say that arson is the answer, but read it again. he's not threatening he's stating what he would like to do. there is a legal difference. and if someone else does it, how small must the mind be to take suggestions from a thread? didn't they try that on ozzy? anyways, onward and forward, i think that everyone is forgetting the bottom line of the fdcpa and the fcra. it has nothing to do with the underlying debt, it is in place to keep the collection agencies and the CRA's within boundaries. if someone was to kill, even if they were provoked they would still be criminally liable. same thing here. although the debt may or may not be valid, they still must stay within the federal and state guidelines or they MUST be held liable. unlike PI and tort which has taken off like wildfire, fdcpa and fcra have been slow leaving the gate, but it will catch on. just you wait. just my opinions and thanks for listening. o yes also i am a jd awaiting results of FL bar.

i understand where everyone is coming from on both sides. no, no one should say that arson is the answer, but read it again. he's not threatening he's stating what he would like to do. there is a legal difference. and if someone else does it, how small must the mind be to take suggestions from a thread? didn't they try that on ozzy? anyways, onward and forward, i think that everyone is forgetting the bottom line of the fdcpa and the fcra. it has nothing to do with the underlying debt, it is in place to keep the collection agencies and the CRA's within boundaries. if someone was to kill, even if they were provoked they would still be criminally liable. same thing here. although the debt may or may not be valid, they still must stay within the federal and state guidelines or they MUST be held liable. unlike PI and tort which has taken off like wildfire, fdcpa and fcra have been slow leaving the gate, but it will catch on. just you wait. just my opinions and thanks for listening. o yes also i am a jd awaiting results of FL bar.

In today's world your credit report and its contents are reviewed by just more then a company that you applied for credit. Today your car insurance rates, medical insurance, potential employment, and many other issues are based on the state of your credit report. The laws that govern collection agencies, creditors reporting and collection agencies lack the bite required to prevent them from abusing the system. Let's face it; a $1000.00 fine is a drop in the bucket to those who rip of millions of dollars from consumers. Since credit reports are used for just about everything today, hit them where it will do the most good. SUE! SUE! SUE! I don't mean in small claims court, but in federal courts. Sue for defamation of character, mental anguish. Hit them for $5,000,000, let juries decide who is right or wrong, not some uniformed local judge or magistrate. In many cases lower courts are not up on Truth in Lending, Credit reporting, Debt collection or credit card protection, but they all know about defamation law suits. Equally, there are far too few attorneys that know consumer law, and many others won't get involved because the return is too small, with too much time invested. But finding an attorney, who will take 33% of $5,000,000, should be much easier to find. The president has already been set in California against Discover Card. So, if you really feel you have been wronged, and can't get relief through other means, SUE! Understand that I am not a lawyer, but a single consumer who is tired of getting abused by crooked companies who continue to rip off people. They continue in business, by simply making an out court settlement with the government in order to avoid prosecution and continue to do business as usual. Providian National and Fairbanks Capitol are two such companies that settled on the court steps and continue to rip off people. Transunion made a hefty settlement for in accurate reports, but today over 75% of all credit reports still contain false, in accurate or misleading information. Getting them correct this information could take months. Mean while you are paying inflated intrest rates, be denied credit, pay higher insurance rates or be denied employment all because they are allowed to get away with it. Congress wants to help, but lets face it, will take forever and day for them to act. And current laws do not have the impact that they were intended to. Fight Back, SUE!SUE!SUE!

I have to agree with Rick somewhat, not the bombing part but essentially the rest. Credit collections companies can say what they want publically, I have been in the collection business in the past as well as the repossession business. I have also been on the "bad" side of the credit report. I have fought to pay off $11,000.00 in debt from a divorce. Did I go on major shopping sprees? No, I did not. I married a man who quit working while I worked 3 jobs to support us and our kids. While working three jobs he proceeded to turn himself into a junkie. When it became apparent his problem was permanent - I filed for divorce. I got stuck with all the bills, and no child support. Oh but let me say....the courts did rule he was responsible for about $ 6,000.00 of the debt to pay. Do the creditors care what the courts say? Or a divorce decree? Absolutely not! I work and raise three kids without child support and have now finally 4 years later gotten ALL of it paid off, except one small $ 50.00 bill that NCO Financial is reporting to the credit bureaus but when I call - they tell me they have no record of it. Imagine my position with these credit collection places. Did they ever make any attempt to go after him....nope - I was the collectable one. But a word of advice....here is a new and improved tactic these agencies are now using. I had an account through Providian Financial (my ex made cash advances for his little habit). It was due to come off my report in 2003. Ok, not going to pay that one (didn't even make the bill and this one ex was supposed to pay according to divorce decree), so what do you think happened?? Asset Acceptance Corp. bought the loan 6 months before it would come off my report. Do people understand this starts the entire process all over again??? So people who got into bad credit situations out of their control, don't look to these collection agencies to work with you - they will find another way to come after you, whether you are supposed to be responsible for the bill or not. When it comes down to the bottom line, the government lets the collection agencies have all the say and the consumer can go to he&^!! Thanks Uncle Sam......

Jason, What the hell do you mean when you say, "I HOPE THEY PISS OFF A MIDDLE EASTERN AND WELL SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CREDIT BUREAU NETWORK AND COLLECTION AGENCY NETWORK." You are scum of the the scum. You are a racist b*****d and need to take your head out of your a*s. You are a white hillbilly yankee d**k. I don't blame only you for behaving in this manner, it had something to do with the h*e that gave you birth and the alcoholic dead-beat that made her pergnant. This is the language that you at CAMCO are used to and this is what you'll get, you racist p***k.

Melissa, normally I'd side with the collectors. After all, you owe the money, even if it was for medical treatment. Lord knows, medical care is one of the worst bills you can have. And, I don't agree with the nuts above who want to blow up buildings, either. But, in your case, I have some sympathy. So, don't let these people push you around. In most cases, there is little or nothing they can do. Don't pay them s**t next month. Or, send them $100 each. YOU pay what YOU can afford. If that's not good enough, the hell with them. Put some money away for an emergency. Pay for your family's Christmas. Pay the collectors LAST. There's not a d**n thing they can do about that. They should be glad it's you. If I owed the money, they probably wouldn't get a dime. If you get stressed by the calls, hand up. Or, don't answer in the first place. Put these people in their place. Next time, tell them what you can afford! If they don't like it, let them go to hell. Don't agree to any plan you can't handle. Chances are, your credit can't get much worse anyway. You know, if you give up on buying a home, you don't even have to pay them one single dime anymore. The only reason you should pay is to preserve what little credit you still have. If you don't plan to borrow any more, then write these losers off. Either way, don't let the stress get to you. Life is short enough as it is. Don't let them make yours even shorter. Have a good holiday!

Melissa, normally I'd side with the collectors. After all, you owe the money, even if it was for medical treatment. Lord knows, medical care is one of the worst bills you can have. And, I don't agree with the nuts above who want to blow up buildings, either. But, in your case, I have some sympathy. So, don't let these people push you around. In most cases, there is little or nothing they can do. Don't pay them s**t next month. Or, send them $100 each. YOU pay what YOU can afford. If that's not good enough, the hell with them. Put some money away for an emergency. Pay for your family's Christmas. Pay the collectors LAST. There's not a d**n thing they can do about that. They should be glad it's you. If I owed the money, they probably wouldn't get a dime. If you get stressed by the calls, hand up. Or, don't answer in the first place. Put these people in their place. Next time, tell them what you can afford! If they don't like it, let them go to hell. Don't agree to any plan you can't handle. Chances are, your credit can't get much worse anyway. You know, if you give up on buying a home, you don't even have to pay them one single dime anymore. The only reason you should pay is to preserve what little credit you still have. If you don't plan to borrow any more, then write these losers off. Either way, don't let the stress get to you. Life is short enough as it is. Don't let them make yours even shorter. Have a good holiday!

Melissa, normally I'd side with the collectors. After all, you owe the money, even if it was for medical treatment. Lord knows, medical care is one of the worst bills you can have. And, I don't agree with the nuts above who want to blow up buildings, either. But, in your case, I have some sympathy. So, don't let these people push you around. In most cases, there is little or nothing they can do. Don't pay them s**t next month. Or, send them $100 each. YOU pay what YOU can afford. If that's not good enough, the hell with them. Put some money away for an emergency. Pay for your family's Christmas. Pay the collectors LAST. There's not a d**n thing they can do about that. They should be glad it's you. If I owed the money, they probably wouldn't get a dime. If you get stressed by the calls, hand up. Or, don't answer in the first place. Put these people in their place. Next time, tell them what you can afford! If they don't like it, let them go to hell. Don't agree to any plan you can't handle. Chances are, your credit can't get much worse anyway. You know, if you give up on buying a home, you don't even have to pay them one single dime anymore. The only reason you should pay is to preserve what little credit you still have. If you don't plan to borrow any more, then write these losers off. Either way, don't let the stress get to you. Life is short enough as it is. Don't let them make yours even shorter. Have a good holiday!

I dont necessarily agree with the revenge by blowing up buildings thing but I would like to state that something needs to be done from these corupt agencies from ruining innocent victams lives. I had to file disablity and in waiting for ssdi i racked up quit a bit of medical bills over 40K. Well we filed bankruptcy to early and I still had medical bills coming in. My husband and I do not make a whole lot of money and we were told by numerous companies to come up with 4K this month and 4K next month or else. Well this is imposible for us. I had 14 different collection agencies calling me. I got so depressed I did not answer the phone for a year unless it was a number I recognized. I tried to make an affordable pmt arrangement but they refused the idea or just keep pushing. To top it all off they are all on my credit report, which may I add I used to have a 750 credit score until I got sick. Now my husband and I are struggling to get us a house. We pay what we can on the bills and my dad pays some also to help us out. We are not bad people. I feel like it though when all that is in our way of a house is Medical COllections. This is Crap! plan and simple medical bills should not be on credit report. It is not like we have a choice as to go to the hospital or not. Fighting with the credit bureaus is a whole nother story but this is also impossible. I really think the laws need to be tougher on these collection agencies. They should take what people can afford. I mean we have to eat. Also in regards to removing the items. They have not even updated my credit report to this day with the payments i have made. One company has. This is bologna. How the heck am I supposed to get my life back with these people not keeping there end of the bargain. To sum it up there are some people who are just plan out irresponsible and dont care if they have bad debts so they shouldnt complain. Like those who just go on shopping sprees or buy things they cant afford repeateadly. But what about us folks that just had it real rough!! Did I mention my husband also got sick the following year and was off of work for 3 months due to open heart surgery. The stress was too much. I am glad my faith in God is strong or I would probably be dead. So any one out there who is struggling with collection agencies dont give up. Find out your rights and fight back. I did have one honest collection agent tell me my husband could not be garnished for my bills in my state. This was a blessing because they kept threatening garnishment of my husband who is our main provider. Liars! Half of Um. But this lady sounded really sincere plus I was bawling on the phone with her. I just wish there were more agents like this. Thanks for hearing me. I hope something can be done to protect consumers credit in the future. This system is very rocky to me.

I agree with Ric (original author). We have to stop these bad companies from dictating consumers financial lives. They stole our information illegally, used it without our permission to compile a file about us, which they sell to prospective lenders. That in a nutshell means they're making money off of us. They couldn't give 2 craps whether or not we get approved or declined for a loan. Or the interest rate we get on a loan. If someone like Timothy McVeigh came after the 3 credit bureaus, they would have my moral support. The collection agencies are no exception. And the companies who have the nerve to send consumers on the road to bad credit. Credit reporting should be outlawed. If not, someone out there somewhere will have had enough. And before you know it were all enjoying fresh credit! I wont feel one ounce of sorrow. I'll only feel sorrow for the poor millions out there victimized by the credit bureaus for having their personal info stolen, and then being reported as a credit risk. Thus, the people can't enjoy the fulfilling life they should be allowed. So why should employees of the 3 credit bureaus, collection agencies, and the companies who charge erroneous early termination fees enjoy fulfilling lives? They should be put in our shoes for a day and see how they feel.

IF THE COLLECTION AGENCIES ARE RESORTING TO THIS BULL CRAP, REAGING ACCOUNTS (THAT IS ILLEGAL AND YOU CAN FILE SUIT UNDER THE FCRA), HIRING ATTORNEYS TO COERCE PAYMENT OUT OF DEBTORS (ALSO ILLEGAL IF IT IS A TIME BARRED DEBT), AND IF THE ATTORNEY IS NOT LICENSED OR QUALIFIED, THEY ARE NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FILE ILLEGAL LAWSUITS. SEE, THIS IS THE CRAP I HATE. COLLECTION AGENCIES CAN BREAK THE LAW ALL THE TIME, BUT YET, WHEN SOMEONE GETS THE BALLS TO BURN DOWN A COLLECTION AGENCY OR BLOW ONE UP, THEY GO TO PRISON! IT'S CRAP! WE GET BURNED BY THEIR ILLEGAL PRACTICES ALL THE TIME YET THEY NEVER GET IN TROUBLE. BUT WE DO AN ARSON OR EXPLOSION AND WE GET IN TROUBLE. IS THIS A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY TO PROCTECT CREDIT REPORTING AGENCIES AND COLLECTION AGENCIES, ALLOWING THEM TO MAKE ILLEGAL PROFIT (IT IS ILLEGAL TOO, THEY WAY THEY MAKE THE PROFIT BY THREATENING PEOPLE IS ILLEGAL). PLUS I DONT ASK FOR THE CRAS TO HAVE A FILE ON ME. THEY ILLEGALY OBTAINED ONE ON ME, AND THEY ARE MAKING MONEY ON ME. I HOPE THEY PISS OFF A MIDDLE EASTERN AND WELL SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CREDIT BUREAU NETWORK AND COLLECTION AGENCY NETWORK.

I can personally attest to some of the ripoff problems from collection agencies...but there is some hope on this front for consumers. Check with state laws: in many cases once the old unsecured debt has hit a certain age, is considered legally uncollectable. This means that the plaintiff cannot pursue you for legal action in court. The only problem with this is that in many cases, some collections are now resorting back to a tried-and-true system: 11th-hour lawsuits hoping to get you to settle the case at full value. In the case of Asset Acceptance, they have hired "Staff Attorneys," in most cases lawyers who are either greenhorns or could not be picked up by legitimate firms and wanting to make a quick to pay off their student loans fast. What these attorneys frequently do is hit you with a lawsuit, and then they arrange a "stipulation", essentially a coerced payment agreement. Since most people do not the legal means to to fight these suits, they settle for the full price. Here's the b***h of it: they frequently offer to settle out the matter for 30% off of what the total balance is every time you make a payment. The reason is simple: cash flow. These are firms that are often unsatisfied with single-digit profits and want double digit rate of returns. Some tips for you if you sign off on a stipulation: 1. Get the interest rate. Frequently they will knock it WAY down. Most collections agencies start out at 25%, hoping to maximize their 'bang for the buck', and work it down. I got mine down to 2% APY on one and 0% on another. 2. Review the stip offer. Make sure it is within your means. $50 is common, $100 is also common. The more you can pay over the minimum, the more likely they are are to work with you on a DISCOUNTED payoff. 3. Don't let them bully you with multiple lawsuits. In many cases, the same company cannot sue you multiple times if you are showing good faith paying one account you have already settled on. If they insist on a lawsuit, keep your payments as a record and take it to the courtroom. Frequently the judge will tell the agency to stuff it and be patient. 4. NEVER agree to anything over the phone. Agencies are frequently manned by people who can't get a job anywhere else and do ANYTHING to make a buck. I knew of one woman who worked at an agencies simply because she refused to be a dancer and wanted to make a big commission. She quit 6 months later when a supervisor ordered her to threaten a mother whose husband just died. There are plenty of legit agencies who are re-aging credit reports because it simply makes sense to do so because they are owned by a major bank and want a future customer. Some credit card accounts are being bought by "sub prime" lenders and converted into "rebuilder" accounts. Watch who they are from...some names to avoid: -Providian -Hurley State Bank -Cross Country Bank -Plains Commerce Bank -almost any bank based in South Dakota. Good names to work with are: -Capital One -Bank of America (this is rare, but it does happen) -Chase With some of these rebuilder accounts, they offer you no interest on the old debt, and they offer a good interest rate on everything else (typically 5.9-9.9%) As always beware the fees!

I can personally attest to some of the ripoff problems from collection agencies...but there is some hope on this front for consumers. Check with state laws: in many cases once the old unsecured debt has hit a certain age, is considered legally uncollectable. This means that the plaintiff cannot pursue you for legal action in court. The only problem with this is that in many cases, some collections are now resorting back to a tried-and-true system: 11th-hour lawsuits hoping to get you to settle the case at full value. In the case of Asset Acceptance, they have hired "Staff Attorneys," in most cases lawyers who are either greenhorns or could not be picked up by legitimate firms and wanting to make a quick to pay off their student loans fast. What these attorneys frequently do is hit you with a lawsuit, and then they arrange a "stipulation", essentially a coerced payment agreement. Since most people do not the legal means to to fight these suits, they settle for the full price. Here's the b***h of it: they frequently offer to settle out the matter for 30% off of what the total balance is every time you make a payment. The reason is simple: cash flow. These are firms that are often unsatisfied with single-digit profits and want double digit rate of returns. Some tips for you if you sign off on a stipulation: 1. Get the interest rate. Frequently they will knock it WAY down. Most collections agencies start out at 25%, hoping to maximize their 'bang for the buck', and work it down. I got mine down to 2% APY on one and 0% on another. 2. Review the stip offer. Make sure it is within your means. $50 is common, $100 is also common. The more you can pay over the minimum, the more likely they are are to work with you on a DISCOUNTED payoff. 3. Don't let them bully you with multiple lawsuits. In many cases, the same company cannot sue you multiple times if you are showing good faith paying one account you have already settled on. If they insist on a lawsuit, keep your payments as a record and take it to the courtroom. Frequently the judge will tell the agency to stuff it and be patient. 4. NEVER agree to anything over the phone. Agencies are frequently manned by people who can't get a job anywhere else and do ANYTHING to make a buck. I knew of one woman who worked at an agencies simply because she refused to be a dancer and wanted to make a big commission. She quit 6 months later when a supervisor ordered her to threaten a mother whose husband just died. There are plenty of legit agencies who are re-aging credit reports because it simply makes sense to do so because they are owned by a major bank and want a future customer. Some credit card accounts are being bought by "sub prime" lenders and converted into "rebuilder" accounts. Watch who they are from...some names to avoid: -Providian -Hurley State Bank -Cross Country Bank -Plains Commerce Bank -almost any bank based in South Dakota. Good names to work with are: -Capital One -Bank of America (this is rare, but it does happen) -Chase With some of these rebuilder accounts, they offer you no interest on the old debt, and they offer a good interest rate on everything else (typically 5.9-9.9%) As always beware the fees!

I can personally attest to some of the ripoff problems from collection agencies...but there is some hope on this front for consumers. Check with state laws: in many cases once the old unsecured debt has hit a certain age, is considered legally uncollectable. This means that the plaintiff cannot pursue you for legal action in court. The only problem with this is that in many cases, some collections are now resorting back to a tried-and-true system: 11th-hour lawsuits hoping to get you to settle the case at full value. In the case of Asset Acceptance, they have hired "Staff Attorneys," in most cases lawyers who are either greenhorns or could not be picked up by legitimate firms and wanting to make a quick to pay off their student loans fast. What these attorneys frequently do is hit you with a lawsuit, and then they arrange a "stipulation", essentially a coerced payment agreement. Since most people do not the legal means to to fight these suits, they settle for the full price. Here's the b***h of it: they frequently offer to settle out the matter for 30% off of what the total balance is every time you make a payment. The reason is simple: cash flow. These are firms that are often unsatisfied with single-digit profits and want double digit rate of returns. Some tips for you if you sign off on a stipulation: 1. Get the interest rate. Frequently they will knock it WAY down. Most collections agencies start out at 25%, hoping to maximize their 'bang for the buck', and work it down. I got mine down to 2% APY on one and 0% on another. 2. Review the stip offer. Make sure it is within your means. $50 is common, $100 is also common. The more you can pay over the minimum, the more likely they are are to work with you on a DISCOUNTED payoff. 3. Don't let them bully you with multiple lawsuits. In many cases, the same company cannot sue you multiple times if you are showing good faith paying one account you have already settled on. If they insist on a lawsuit, keep your payments as a record and take it to the courtroom. Frequently the judge will tell the agency to stuff it and be patient. 4. NEVER agree to anything over the phone. Agencies are frequently manned by people who can't get a job anywhere else and do ANYTHING to make a buck. I knew of one woman who worked at an agencies simply because she refused to be a dancer and wanted to make a big commission. She quit 6 months later when a supervisor ordered her to threaten a mother whose husband just died. There are plenty of legit agencies who are re-aging credit reports because it simply makes sense to do so because they are owned by a major bank and want a future customer. Some credit card accounts are being bought by "sub prime" lenders and converted into "rebuilder" accounts. Watch who they are from...some names to avoid: -Providian -Hurley State Bank -Cross Country Bank -Plains Commerce Bank -almost any bank based in South Dakota. Good names to work with are: -Capital One -Bank of America (this is rare, but it does happen) -Chase With some of these rebuilder accounts, they offer you no interest on the old debt, and they offer a good interest rate on everything else (typically 5.9-9.9%) As always beware the fees!

I can personally attest to some of the ripoff problems from collection agencies...but there is some hope on this front for consumers. Check with state laws: in many cases once the old unsecured debt has hit a certain age, is considered legally uncollectable. This means that the plaintiff cannot pursue you for legal action in court. The only problem with this is that in many cases, some collections are now resorting back to a tried-and-true system: 11th-hour lawsuits hoping to get you to settle the case at full value. In the case of Asset Acceptance, they have hired "Staff Attorneys," in most cases lawyers who are either greenhorns or could not be picked up by legitimate firms and wanting to make a quick to pay off their student loans fast. What these attorneys frequently do is hit you with a lawsuit, and then they arrange a "stipulation", essentially a coerced payment agreement. Since most people do not the legal means to to fight these suits, they settle for the full price. Here's the b***h of it: they frequently offer to settle out the matter for 30% off of what the total balance is every time you make a payment. The reason is simple: cash flow. These are firms that are often unsatisfied with single-digit profits and want double digit rate of returns. Some tips for you if you sign off on a stipulation: 1. Get the interest rate. Frequently they will knock it WAY down. Most collections agencies start out at 25%, hoping to maximize their 'bang for the buck', and work it down. I got mine down to 2% APY on one and 0% on another. 2. Review the stip offer. Make sure it is within your means. $50 is common, $100 is also common. The more you can pay over the minimum, the more likely they are are to work with you on a DISCOUNTED payoff. 3. Don't let them bully you with multiple lawsuits. In many cases, the same company cannot sue you multiple times if you are showing good faith paying one account you have already settled on. If they insist on a lawsuit, keep your payments as a record and take it to the courtroom. Frequently the judge will tell the agency to stuff it and be patient. 4. NEVER agree to anything over the phone. Agencies are frequently manned by people who can't get a job anywhere else and do ANYTHING to make a buck. I knew of one woman who worked at an agencies simply because she refused to be a dancer and wanted to make a big commission. She quit 6 months later when a supervisor ordered her to threaten a mother whose husband just died. There are plenty of legit agencies who are re-aging credit reports because it simply makes sense to do so because they are owned by a major bank and want a future customer. Some credit card accounts are being bought by "sub prime" lenders and converted into "rebuilder" accounts. Watch who they are from...some names to avoid: -Providian -Hurley State Bank -Cross Country Bank -Plains Commerce Bank -almost any bank based in South Dakota. Good names to work with are: -Capital One -Bank of America (this is rare, but it does happen) -Chase With some of these rebuilder accounts, they offer you no interest on the old debt, and they offer a good interest rate on everything else (typically 5.9-9.9%) As always beware the fees!

First, I could not agree more with Ric regarding the notion of pulling together federal legislation to end the "business" of collection agencies (or whatever other name they may like to call themselves). Frequently the representatives of these agencies clearly lack the social skills to direct their "life's work" and said energy to something more positive. A mistake that only a severely misguided individual would make, in terms of career choice -- so if you have been a victim of any of these unscrupulous, harassing, misinformed individuals remember "consider the source." I would be happy to help write, direct, speak up for the constitutional rights we (as citizens of this democracy) have--including the right to privacy. This, means to me, that any bill incurred with any company is a private matter. It is not something that should be turned into a material good and put up for sale. If medical records are protected from everyone except for patient and doctor or direct care provider, then absolutely financial records (bills) should be treated with equal/if not a higher level of reverence. The reason that identity fraud runs ramped? Is it really that there are people digging through our individual garbage bins in the wee hours of the morning on "weekly garbage night." Or is it perhaps more likely that these identity frauds are taking place because our every piece of financial data is being sold with any past due bill to one of these "hillbilly" operations calling themselves a collection agency. Just how much are these individuals given access to, exactly, and what protects the consumer from these (less than "top of the class" shall we say) folks from selling our social security numbers, names, addresses, etc. to their even less scrupulous cohorts? Hmm... My life experience has been that if it looks like a rat, walks like a rat, smells like a rat... it's probably a rat. Legislation is the answer. Perhaps investigation following the entire shutdown of this industry--which has been a long time coming if you ask me. Anyone out there willing to work with me on putting together something that could be petitioned into a state level proposition, or taken to the federal judicial system for review? Let me know and I am in. S.J.

Many of the problems discussed here can be resolved with a simple law that outlaws the sale or purchase or collection of post statute of limitations debt. The simple fact is that the critical success factor in pursuing such old accounts is intimidation, harassment and deception, all actions already illegal under the Fair Dect Collection Practices Act. The only other way to make money on these accounts is by exploiting consumer ignorance and gullibility. Since many of these old accounts may be held by estates or old spouses it is clear that this is a rotten immoral business. While I hope the FTC cracks down on the Whitewings and Camcos of the world it would really save a lot of law enforcement time and money to outlaw them altogether.

What most people don't realize is that the FDCPA and the Fair Credit Reporting Act are laws that protect both the buyer(of goods and services) as well as the seller(of goods and services). If a buyer defaults on a contract-the seller has all the legal rights to pursue payment-which include judgments, garnishment of wages(according to the individual state laws)and the power to insert negative and derogatory credit information upon the buyer's credit profile. This must be done in a specific time ordered manner(statue of limitations)-again according the individual state's laws. However, if the seller fails to follow these laws and procedures as prescribed by the FDCPA and the Fair Credit Reporting Act with reference to individual state laws-then the seller has ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL NOR LAWFUL RIGHT TO FORCEABLE DEMAND OR THREATEN COLLECTION, whether by themselves or through a collection agency. The above cited laws now protect the buyer. In other words, the buyer now is off the hook.

Thanks for the response. However, we are supposed to close on our house on the 29th and either we pay Allied (even though the company isn't even in contact with us yet, the numbers are just shown on the credit report) or we don't get our house...which we are building. I basically would only have 2 weeks to dispute it, and I think the lender would make us pay anyway because we can't close on the house until we pay it. And we can't really postpone the closing because if we do that gives them the right to consider selling it to someone else. Yeah, it's really confusing. I think I might just have to pay Allied off??

Lindsay, don't go to Allied. Go here: http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/money/fair-credit/fair-crd.htm It explains your rights under the fair credit reporting act. Good luck in buying a home!

yes, sorry to say that was me & i'm not very proud of it either. i made that mistake on my own, no one forced me to get credit cards & run up a debt that i couldn't pay back. and if i could deal directly with citibank & chase i would make arrangments to pay back what i owe. wise money mangement is the lesson here. right out of college with not much income i discovered credit cards. and in the 80's it was so easy to get one. once i had one card - it was even easier to get 1 more. and it was so nice of creditors to let me make minimum payment. hopefully banks & consumers are a bit more careful & savvy about getting credit cards. great that ripoff allows this forum, but to the original writer of this thread, it may not be a good idea to make threats of arson & blowing up collection agencys on a public website. just a thought, please don't go ballastic on me too.

All of these arguments are certainly valid, and if someone owed me money I would try whatever I could to get that money. However, my husband and I are trying to get into a home but our credit report shows that we owe $527 to Allied Interstate because of an unpaid Sprint bill. We've never done business with Sprint and neither Sprint nor the CA contacted us by phone or mail about these alledged charges. We've tried to contact them, but we just get the run around. This is making is very difficult to get into a home and since they haven't answered our calls or letter, and because they have yet to contact us in any way...we don't know what to do. So I see where some of you are coming from (besides the pyrotechnics lol). What can ya do?

As everyone here has pointed out, there's no reason to advocate violence against collection agencies or anyone else. We have laws which protect us from unscrupulous or criminal collection agents. There's no reason to take the law into our own hands. That being said, the sob stories about "what would you do if someone owed YOU money?" are touching... but they're really not germane to the issue at hand. Companies like Camco and their partners-in-crime are buying old debts for less than a penny on the dollar, then trying to get people to pay money they don't owe by bullying, fraud, and empty threats. It's not like "I lent my friend $10,000 and he refuses to pay me back" -- it's more like "I purchased a debt which may or may not exist and which is outside the statute of limitations for any kind of legal collection activity anyway, and now I'm going to try scaring some poor sap into giving me money by threatening his credit report, claiming I'll have him arrested, threatening to call his employer, etc." I've worked collections in the past: I have a pretty fair idea of what you can and cannot do. I don't think that all collections agents are criminals, nor do I have a problem with a collection agency reporting a valid debt to a CRA. I do have a problem with the scams Camco, RMH and a few of their fellow bottom-feeders run. If you're targeted by Camco, send a cease-and-desist, cc'ed to the Illinois Attorney General, your Attorney General, and the FTC. If RMH tries to falsely re-age spurious Fingerhut debts, be sure to contest this with any CRA they abuse... and contact a lawyer about any possible recourse you may have in court. If enough complaints come rolling in, they will either start acting like law-abiding businesses, or they will be shut down like the criminals they are.

If I were a company that planned on purchasing other companies collections. I would make sure that the debts are valid first. I am not the only one that you are trying to collect a debt from that has NO clue where these charges have stemmed from. I guess RJM Acquisitions are just trying to make some extra cash taking advantage of the ignorant. I am sure many people panic at the sight of a collection notice and just pay it. Others, like myself, are not playing your game.

What if you sold your car to a guy? His check bounced. You called, and he gives you the run-around. Next, you see him driving around town in the car he took from you. You follow him into a bar. He's buying drinks for all his friends! He's got plenty of money. What do you do? That's what debt collectors face everyday. People agree to pay. Some lose their job and have no money. Others waste their money, and just won't pay up. If somebody took YOUR money, what would you do to get it back?

First off, knowing I'm going to be cursed out in an endless thread, I must admit that I once worked as a collection agent. Thankfully though, never for any of the companies I so often read about on this site. I would first like to voice my disappointment at this site for letting Ric's post remain here. Second, I hope Ric's post lands him in jail. A call for debtors nationwide to blow up collection agencies...thats way out there, I understand you were probably angry when you posted but c'mon, that's crazy and you know it. If one person gets hurt from your post Ric, you should be held every bit as accountable as the moron who believes you know what you are talking about. Now, where's my soapbox? Ah, here we go. Don't be fooled by the title of Ric's post. As you read, you can see that all 3 of his delinquent accounts seem legit. He just throws in the names of the worst of the worst to get people behind his little pyro crusade. These companies that break the FDCPA & FCRA should be repeatedly sued until they are shut down. No question about it. What I find funny though, is how quickly everyone always posts how to get out of debts without ever questioning whether or not they are actually owed. How often you do see a post from someone about a delinquent account followed by 4 posts about how to get out of it? How about a post on how to properly budget in the future? How about a post on how to negotiate repayment? I'm not talking about the 10 year old fingerhut accounts either, we all know stuff like that is B.S. and should be fought tooth and nail. I'm talking about all the posts from people who abuse the faults in the system then want the world because they feel they are owed something. Yes, high interest rates are B.S. Check every statement. Yes, overdraft fees are B.S. Balance you checking account weekly if needed. Yes, I have felt ripped off from major credit card companies and been taken for a ride by my bank on B.S. charges. Each time though, I learn a lesson, most of the time costly, but that doesn't give me the right to cry about it. For the record, I'm not talking about folks who lost their job, or went on disability and couldn't pay...I'm talking about those people who were aware of their situation and spent spent spent anyway. They log in here and get tip after tip on how to get out it and do it again. When I worked in collections, 90% of the NON-PAYERS abused the system. And no, it wasn't for some of these crap companies you see on this site collecting old debt, this was all recently charged off debt with average interest rates of about 13%...you know, not platinum, but not secured stuff either. People would call in all the time and explain their situation and work out payment plans. Of course we always went for more then they said they could afford, and of course, they never offered their last dollar and we would meet in the middle. But for everyone who I talked to and refused to pay anything...they are abusing the system. It's real simple in America, if you can't afford to pay your bills, file banko and learn a lesson. Then you don't have to pay and all the collection calls stop. Can't afford a banko attorney? File yourself, it's easy and there are probably free legal aid groups and hotlines in your area anyway. Americans are just getting to lazy, that's why I left the collection industry, its so infuriating. I understand beating the system is easy and profitable, but that doesn't make it right. Whew, what a ramble...and I hate reading long posts too...lol Anyway, I feel better now. I'm not even going to reread for errors or to see if I even made sense, I just needed to vent. You know...like Ric. Hope to read everyone's threats and insults real soon.

I will agree with him that nobody should be making this ridiculous arson or other criminal threats. There is never a reason to sink to their level. However, Jim, you are also full of crap. There is a mountain of caselaw that states a collection agency who buys debt is a collection agency. Sure, in some states because you buy debt you do not have to be licensed or bonded. However, the law, and especially the FDCPA, still considers you a collection agency. Asset acceptance, national check control, JBC, ect have all tried to argue in court that the fdcpa does not apply to them because they buy debt. They have all lost. You agency also is scummy. I have seen a ton of complaints(although there are certainly worse off agencys out there) on your company.I would also point out that your company cannot even maintain a clean BBB rating and that takes a special talent. Your biggest mistake was buying all those fingerhut accounts. You simply have no paperwork for most of them and can never validate and fingerhut was a ripoff agency anyway so you just trample all over consumers rights. Please rebutt me. I know more about your company than you do I would be willing to bet.

RJM is not a collection agency. We purchase the debt from the original creditor. Therefor we are collecting for outselves not an outside party. We follow all FDCPA regulations. We do not make harassing phone calls, we don't make outgoing phone calls at all. We send letters and the consumer calls us. If people would just pay their bills to begin with, they wouldn't be sent to collections. The fact that someone would consider felony arson as a means of solving their problems obviously proves they are mentally unstable. PAY YOUR BILLS AND YOU WON"T HAVE PEOPLE CALLING YOU TO COLLECT ON THEM!!!

RJM is not a collection agency. We purchase the debt from the original creditor. Therefor we are collecting for outselves not an outside party. We follow all FDCPA regulations. We do not make harassing phone calls, we don't make outgoing phone calls at all. We send letters and the consumer calls us. If people would just pay their bills to begin with, they wouldn't be sent to collections. The fact that someone would consider felony arson as a means of solving their problems obviously proves they are mentally unstable. PAY YOUR BILLS AND YOU WON"T HAVE PEOPLE CALLING YOU TO COLLECT ON THEM!!!

RJM is not a collection agency. We purchase the debt from the original creditor. Therefor we are collecting for outselves not an outside party. We follow all FDCPA regulations. We do not make harassing phone calls, we don't make outgoing phone calls at all. We send letters and the consumer calls us. If people would just pay their bills to begin with, they wouldn't be sent to collections. The fact that someone would consider felony arson as a means of solving their problems obviously proves they are mentally unstable. PAY YOUR BILLS AND YOU WON"T HAVE PEOPLE CALLING YOU TO COLLECT ON THEM!!!

RJM is not a collection agency. We purchase the debt from the original creditor. Therefor we are collecting for outselves not an outside party. We follow all FDCPA regulations. We do not make harassing phone calls, we don't make outgoing phone calls at all. We send letters and the consumer calls us. If people would just pay their bills to begin with, they wouldn't be sent to collections. The fact that someone would consider felony arson as a means of solving their problems obviously proves they are mentally unstable. PAY YOUR BILLS AND YOU WON"T HAVE PEOPLE CALLING YOU TO COLLECT ON THEM!!!