Complaint Review: Phil Gardner - Daytona Beach Florida

You're partially right, I don't have a very diverse background in aviation.  I had never owned a business. I had never owned a plane. I had never even flown a plane that was not a school plane and I had never dealt with the FAA other than sending in paperwork for my certificates.

I do have a Bachelors degree in Aeronautical Science from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and about 300 flight hours.  But virtually ALL of my flight experience and training has been in new, well maintained aircraft.  I do not have a very diverse background in aviation.  I guess this is what I get for trusting people that do.

Tim had owned and run a banner towing company for many years.  There was about 2 months in between the time Tim made the offer and the time I accepted it.  In that time I did A LOT of research.  I listened to a lot of stories from Tim and he even showed me how profitable it could be on paper.  He knew exactly how to run the business.  As stated in the other report, I bought the plane 2 months before the busy season.  I was kind of sceptical about getting the business started that quickly too, but Tim assured me it could be done (read the other post).  By the way, the plane was in pretty rough shape.

If you don't believe my story, I don't care.  It's all completely true.  I just hope no one else ends up on the wrong side of one of this guys buddies.  Don't make the same mistake I did.  I've learned my lesson and trust me, it will never happen again.

I'm just a college graduate trying to get into my field.  I had my eagerness taken advantage of and it doesn't look like things are getting any better any time soon.  So much for trusting people.  So much for following your dreams...

To expand on my above post.  I just did a search as of today (1/28/2010), just days after the original post.  Here is an unfiltered list of all the 1975 Cessna 172 airplanes listed on www.aso.com as of today.

Obviously I don't know the spec of the plane being discussed, but you can see by the results that the price range quoted by Gardner Aircraft seems in the right ballpark.  Also, take into consideration it sounds like this guy just was asking for a free opinion rather than having the proper mechanical inspections needed to do a full and accurate appraisal.  Lack of dudilgence on his part does not justify this slander.

http://www.aso.com/listings/AircraftListings.aspx?act_id=1&mg_id=22
   
1975     Cessna 172M     $57,500     4180     NC            
   
1975     Cessna 172M     $48,000     1705     FL            
   
1975     Cessna 172M     $46,000     1300     ID            
   
1975     Cessna 172M Skyhawk     $60,000     0     MI            
   
1975     Cessna 172M     $56,000     4500     TN            
   
1975     Cessna 172M Skyhawk     $33,000     3775     NY            
   
1975     Cessna 172M Skyhawk     $55,000     1720     FL            
   
1975     Cessna 172M     $67,500     3389     OH
   
1975     Cessna 172M Skyhawk     $54,000     2675     TX    
   
1975     Cessna 172M Skyhawk     $45,000     6414     MI    
   
1975     Cessna 172M /180 Conversion     $74,500     3727     OR   

I have bought planes from Gardner Aircraft Sales on many occasions and they (Phil in particular) have always been great to deal with.  Phil is one of the most honest and stand up business men I've ever dealt with.  This user's report seems irrational and improbable.  A lot of assumptions were made in order to come to the conclusion that Gardner Aircraft had reason to mislead him.  Additionally, it is very obvious that this person did not do their research and may not be taking the huge dip in the economy into consideration.

I am just a customer of Gardner Aircraft Sales, but they have treated me right in the past and I just couldn't stand by and read such false statements and slander without interjecting the truth.

Phil has been in the aviation and sales industry for over 50 years.  You don't meet someone with this much knowledge and experience every day!  You also don't stay in business this length of time by treating people wrong, so that just goes to show you how inaccurate the original posting must be.

Mark

   I've read this and your other post and I'm having trouble believing that you have any background in aviation.    For the record, I do not have an aviation degree, but I am very familiar with the FAA regulations regarding banner towing.   The information is easily available to anyone who bothers to do even the most cursory check of the FARs and the FAA's own website.  According to you, you expected to hop in a plane and start towing banners right away.   What were you thinking?  As someone who claims to have been starting a business, you appear to have done zero research and zero preparation. 

  As for this claim about the plane, I'm having trouble buying it.   Used aircraft values have plummeted in the last few years, but I'm having a hard time swallowing your claim.  The main reason is that a '75 Cessna 172 that is only worth $10K and change would not be flyable.  This would be obvious to any owner or pilot.  In average condition, such a plane is worth somewhere in the mid $30K range.  Something does not smell right.   Even if the aircraft was in bad shape, it was your responsibility to ascertain its condition before you bought it.   That means hiring an indepedent A&P (preferably an IA) with your own money to perform a prepurchase inspection at the minimum.  For an aircraft that was going to be used commercially, a smart buyer would pay for an annual inspection.  Asking a dealer how much he thinks it's worth falls far short of due dilligence.  In this respect, you have been your own worst enemy.

  Bottom line.   According to your own posts, you appear to have attempted to start an aviation business without knowing the basics about it, or even much about aircraft ownership.   It seems that you were doomed from the start.  Consider yourself lucky that you got out relatively cheaply.   The aviation business is cutthroat, as alluded to by the old saying, "If you want to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large one".  

BTW - I do not know any of the people you have complained about in either of your reports.  My comments have been based solely on what you posted about yourself.  Although you may not have realized it, you were in so far over you head that this venture didn't stand a chance from the start.