Complaint Review: Progressive Insurance - Chandler Arizona

Damaged 2005 Fountain 29 Fever Offshore Power Boat

This boat was purchased in August 2005 in perfect condition from the original owner with 46 hours on it for $82,000.00. I contacted the dealer who sold and serviced the boat Joe at Malich Motors and they knew of the boat and verified the pristine condition of the boat. The boat was used one season at Lake Tahoe (Lake Tahoe is the cleanest fresh water lake in the western united states).

In 2004 the 2005 Fountain 29 Fever original list price was $138,409.00 plus the trailer a Magic Tilt TALS 2602 list price was around $14,000.00. The boat and trailer was and still is insured by Progressive Boat Insurance for the purchase price of $82K.

This boat has since been maintained in perfect condition, washed every time it went to any of the local Arizona lakes. The oil was changed every other time out. No stress cracks have ever been apparent on any part of this boat.

The incident occurred when we launched the boat just after midnight on May 26th 2007and moored it on its anchor off Windsor Beach at Lake Havasu Arizona. I stayed on the boat for approximately 2 hours attempting to sleep. The anchor seemed solid and hadnt moved for the two hours I was there. I then decided to go to our hotel to get some sleep and return in the morning. Upon returning, which was approximately 7:30AM I found that the anchor had pulled and the boat was on shore being beaten by boat wakes. The boat was straight on shore in sort of a troft. The boat was being lifted and dropped onto the beach sand and rocks continuously by the wakes coming on shore. It took six people approximately 30 to 45 minutes to get it off the beach. The bottom of the boat was heavily damaged the prop and drive was torn up as well. The boat still ran but overheated before getting it back onto the trailer, causing engine heat related problems as well. There was also a 7 deep scratch on the port side of the bow. The boat had 106 hours on it at the time of the incident.

Upon returning to my home in Gilbert Arizona, I contacted Progressive Insurance and they instructed me to bring it to Martin Marine in Mesa and all the repairs would be guaranteed for life. When I arrived I realized that Martin does not service Off Shore Boats, they mainly work on Pontoons and Fishing Boats. I was told that there would not be problem by the Progressive Rep. Christine Muncaster. The boat was dropped off on May 30th 2007 and I picked the boat up on July 14th 2007 for the 2 days of mechanical repairs required. The service manager JT originally told me it would be completed in two weeks, which turned into 6 weeks and then 2 months. Here are copies of documents presented to Paul of Progressive Insurance regarding problems with the work performed by Martin Marine on the mechanical repairs;

2005 Fountain 29 Fever

Problems with Martin Marine (MM) Repairs

Dropped off May 30th, Picked up July 14th

1. Starboard Header heat stains not repaired. Possible need for re-chrome.

2. Prop never sent out for repair MM kept for repair.

3. Starboard Header overheating, burning bellows smells like burning rubber not flushed correctly?

4. Starboard Header clacking sound when silent choice engaged.

5. Starboard Header blowing oil out exhaust caused by overheating on starboard side?

6. Water Pressure @ 12 pounds was 25 pounds before incident not flushed correctly?

7.Engine RPM 4700 to 4800 was 5100 Rev Limiter is at 5100 indicating problem.

8. Water leak in engine compartment possible drive bellows or leaking hose? I was told MM was replacing.

9. Drive oil leaking somewhere? MM did not replace input seal alarm going off, refilled twice at lake.

10. Drive paint not applied correctly chip marks under paint work, paint run from too much paint applied, not prepped correctly, wrinkled after 1st lake run. Did they primer? JT stated on 7/5 and 7/6 he had sanded, primed and painted. This was JT's complete B.S. reason it was not finished when promised. Work was never done as of day of pickup @ 2:00PM Saturday 7/14.

Non Progressive Insurance Issues

11. Trailer Jack does not fit correctly wheel to low, can't remove wheel or fold out of way correctly.

12. Trailer hit in MM lot port forward fender Red paint marks? Previously hit on port aft, same fender. MM never mentioned it.

Martin Marine Repair Issues

Dropped off July 19th picked up Friday July 27th

Prior to returning to Martin Marine I discussed repair issues with Paul from Progressive. I suggested we use another shop. Paul insisted we return to Martin Marine and give them a chance to rectify situation. This is the results.

Meet with Paul from Progressive 10:00AM July 19 at Martin Marine. We presented this list of repairs and JT and Paul agreed they were done substandard. JT from Martin Marine stated he would get right on problems with repairs list. We scheduled Test Run with myself and JT for Friday July 27th at Saguaro Lake. Martin backed boat into stall and pulled drive and water pump immediately, placed boat in lot.

I called JT for status Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Each time we spoke JT stated he was working on the boat. I arrived July 27th Friday Morning at 8:00AM for our scheduled Test Drive and no work had been done at all. The boat was still in lot.

I stated to JT that I was not leaving until boat was finished. I took outdrive to CPR Restorations to refinish drive. The drive was sanded with DA, primed with Mercury green primer provided by JT. Then shot to a nice finish with Mercury Gloss Black provided by JT. After drying time I brought the drive back to Martin Marine. JT had installed the water pump while I was gone with drive. I assisted JT installing drive. He stated that during the week they had pressure tested and found no leaks. I left at 5:30PM with boat. I test drove the boat on Sunday at Saguaro lake.

Newest Problems with Martin Marine Repairs

Found Sunday July 29th

1. Header not repaired; starboard header makes clacking noise when silent choice is on.

2. Header not repaired; starboard header still stained from heat.

3. Outdrive still leaks; gear lube monitor bottle lowers each day out on lake about 1. That is driving up to Saguaro top beach and back, about 6-8 miles. I found seal missing on top drive plug. JT gave me a new plug to repair leak. Now drive leaks only about 1/2 per trip to Saguaro. Better!

4.Outdrive Overheating; I'm not sure root cause, but outdrive must be overheating and pealing paint. Not sure why it peals the paint only on one side?

5. Water Pressure low; Water pressure is only 15 to 18 lbs under power. I have back flushed at least 10 times to try to improve pressure. Pressure is still low but not overheating engine? Runs consistently at 150 degrees. I'm not sure if it is ok or not?

6. Oil from exhaust; Stains under swim platform every time out?

7. Outdrive oil in engine compartment; Not sure where it is coming from?

NOTES; I've decided not to return to Martin Marine. I need a shop that knows how to work on this boat. I spoke with Paul from Progressive and he suggested I return to Martin Marine. I'm not sure where to go with the boat at this point for the mechanical repairs?

The preceding letters were given to Paul of Progressive Insurance and he has not responded, these issues have not been addressed by Progressive! I have since replaced the port trailer fender that was damaged by Martin Marine at my own expense.

During the time the boat was at Martin Marine the fiberglass repairs were looked at by two different fiberglass shops. I was later contacted by Christine Muncaster of Progressive and she stated that there was structural damage to the boat and it may be a manufacturing issue. This boat is still under a five year manufacturer warranty. So I contacted Fountain Powerboats for their assessment of the problem. I then brought the boat to Jim Hess of Phoenix Fiberglass for an assessment. He stated that it may be an impact problem or a manufacturer problem, he was not sure. I took pictures and sent them to Fountain along with a detailed account of the incident. They responded with the attached letter that in their opinion the damage was from impact on the beach. I submitted Fountains response to Christine Muncaster of Progressive. After about a week Christine Muncaster responded, stating that Progressive would in fact pay for all the damages. She did not put this in writing!

I then scheduled with Jim Hess of Phoenix Fiberglass for the repairs. Jim was booked out at least 2 months and I would have to wait. He also stated that it would not make any difference if I used the boat during that time because the mechanical repairs had been completed and it wouldn't make any difference on the fiberglass repairs. I called and asked Christine if that was ok and she stated there would not be a problem.

After several phone calls to Phoenix Fiberglass to schedule a drop off date for repairs, on October 8th, I finally got a date of October 22nd. I contacted Jim Hess on October 18th to verify the appointment. He stated that he had no safe place to store the interior of the boat while the fiberglass repairs were to be performed. We then discussed that I had space in my garage. So the upholstery guy Doug came to my home on October 22nd pulled the interior and stored it in my garage. On October 23rd I dropped the boat off at Phoenix Fiberglass.

Now this is where the fiberglass repair problems really started with Progressive Insurance. I contacted Jim Hess at Phoenix Fiberglass 2 weeks later on November 3rd to check his progress on repairs. I was then told by Jim that Paul from Progressive Insurance was out and stated that Progressive would not pay for the structural damage. Therefore he was instructed by Paul not to start on the repairs. I asked why I was not contacted or notified about the delay. He stated that Paul said he would contact me. I then contacted Christine Muncaster to find out what was going on. Christine stated that she was sorry and that it was her boss that stopped the repairs on the boat as a result of Paul's assessment of the damage. She stated I should contact Paul to discuss it. I reminded her that she had stated that Progressive was paying for all the damages. Christine apologized and said it was out of her control and that it was her bosses call. I then contacted Paul from Progressive and he stated that the structural problems were not being covered by Progressive. I explained to Paul that we had already visited this issue and I had a confirmation from Christine back in August that Progressive was paying for all the damages. Paul stated that he did not care and that we needed to meet to discuss the problems. I then scheduled an appointment to meet with Paul at Phoenix Fiberglass to discuss the issues on November 5th.

During this appointment Paul stated that it could not be ascertained if the structural issues were caused by the beach incident or if they were a manufacturing issue without cutting open the inside floor of the boat. He stated that I needed to authorize Jim Hess at Phoenix Fiberglass to cut the bottom of the boat out to access the problem at my expense. Of which I did authorize. I then asked him about the upholstery guy Doug and who was now responsible for his work. Paul stated it was my problem not his.

On November 12th Jim had the floor cut out and asked me to come down and discuss what he had found, of which I did the next day November 13th. He stated that he thought that the problem was a dry laminate issue. Therefore it was in his opinion, a manufacturer issue. I then looked at the cut out floor and noticed that the wood had been ripped off the stringers by the fiberglass. I phoned Martin Sanborn of Fountain Powerboats for his opinion. I explained what I saw and Martin stated it was obvious it was in fact an impact problem, not a dry laminate manufacturing problem. His opinion was based on the fact that the wood was ripped from the stringers. I then insisted that Jim Hess call and discuss the damage with Martin Sanborn of Fountain. Jim stated that he did not want to call but I insisted he do so.

I then contacted Jim Hess on November 14th to verify that he had spoken with Martin Sanborn. He stated that he did and stated that he needed to talk with Paul from Progressive before we talked further. He stated Paul was coming over to Phoenix Fiberglass later that afternoon.

I contacted Paul from Progressive he wanted to meet with me yet again at Phoenix Fiberglass. I scheduled and meet with Paul on what I believe was November 15th? He stated that in his opinion that the damage was caused by the boat trailer and not the accident. He then explained that there was a slightly warped 2x6 8 foot keel rail (keel rail is on the very bottom of the boat) on the trailer and that he thought that was now the cause of the broken stringers and stress cracks. I of course disagreed with his analysis. The damaged stringers are up on the sides, not in on the keel where the warped rail is located. I also asked how this could magically happen at the same time the boat was beached? Paul of Progressive had no answer for me. I then contacted Martin Sanborn to discuss this latest analysis from Progressive. He explained that it was highly unlikely and that at least 80% of the weight of the boat is on the rear primary rails. I then contacted Joe of Milich Motors in Tacoma, Washington whom is the dealer that sold the boat new. I verified that the trailer was in fact the correct trailer and that it was the one that was sold with the boat when new. Joe also stated that the front rails are more guides that actual support. He also explained that as long as the front of the boat is supported by the bow support and bow eye. There is no way the trailer could cause any stress on the hull. I then contacted Magic Tilt Trailers the trailer manufacturer and verified that it was in fact the correct trailer for the boat. I was getting a bit disturbed at this point because now in my opinion, Progressive was making this excuse which placed Progressive and now the manufacturer Fountain with no liability. I then stated to Paul that I would obtain an attorney to resolve the matter. Which I believe prompted Progressive to hire a survey of the boat on their behalf.

The following week I was contacted by Christine Muncaster asking me to meet Joe Derie of Southwest Passage Marine surveys at Phoenix Fiberglass on November 29th for a survey. She stated that the survey was being done on Progressive's behalf.

I meet with Southwest Passage Marine Surveys on November 29th 2007. I assisted in any way possible with the survey and reviewed the incident to Joe Derie. I asked Joe Derie if I could have a copy of the survey when he completed it and he stated no that the survey was being done for the benefit of Progressive and Progressive would need to give me a copy at their discretion.

At this point, the boat was filthy dirty from being outside and uncovered at Phoenix Fiberglass for the past 5 weeks. I paid Jim Hess of Phoenix Fiberglass for cutting the floor out and brought the boat home to be washed and put away protected undercover.

I contacted Christine Muncaster of Progressive for the results of the survey on December 5th 2007, she stated that the survey was not done and should be available by Friday. It was then faxed to me on December 6th, 2007. The survey attached resulted in the following statement;

"The cracks in the gelcoat and delamination and bonding issues are more than likely due to the vessel being improperly supported by its trailer in those areas. These issues were probably exacerbated by the working and increased stresses on the already stressed hull anytime the vessel proceeded at speed in a seaway."

On January 11th, 2008 I received a letter from Christine Muncaster dated December 17th 2007 stating that Progressive was not paying for the stringer and stress crack damage.

I have since brought the boat to Dan at Sun Valley Fiberglass for an assessment as to the root cause of the damage. Dan has been performing Fiberglass boat repairs for over 30 years and Jim Hess of Phoenix Fiberglass was employed and taught how to repair boats by Dan. According to Dan Jim has been repairing boats for approximately 14 years. Dan reviewed the damage and stated that in his expert opinion the damage was not caused by the trailer but by impact on the beach.

I have also brought the boat to a local boat Trailer Manufacturer VIP Trailers. I spoke with Mike whom has been building trailers for a number of years and he stated the trailer did not cause the damage to the boat.

I contacted Magic Tilt Trailers via email with attached photographs provided by Progressive Insurance whom built the trailer. According to their experts and engineers there is no way the trailer caused the damage to the boat?

Finally I contacted Martin Sanborn of Fountain Powerboats whom built the boat. I sent via email the survey and photographs provided by Progressive Insurance, re-explaining the situation. Verbally Martin has stated that there is no way the trailer not supporting the boat could cause impact damage. I am awaiting his written response.

I contacted Paul at Progressive again regarding the mechanical damage, specifically the header. He stated that he spoke with JT at Martin regarding the header and Paul said JT said the clacking was normal, and that the stains were normal. I then called JT to verify, and he said that he never said that at all. JT told me that Paul did not want to pay for the repairs for the damaged header, stating it was too expensive. I then called Paul back to explain what JT stated and now he wants me to meet him yet again at Martin Marine. Paul has lied to me more that once about this issue and now he wants me to drag the boat yet again to Martin Marine for him to inspect something he has already inspected twice.

I have since brought the boat to Chuck at Extreme Marine to access the mechanical heating issues and oil leak. He explained that the reason the headers are overheating is that they were not properly flushed of sand and rocks from the beach incident. He further explained that there is a bearing failing on the out drive's prop shaft that is causing the paint to peel and oil to overheat which is pressurizing the chamber, pushing oil out through the input shaft seal. The bearing failed due to the boat prop being grounded onto the beach from the incident. Attached is his estimate for repairs.

I have expended countless hours and fuel in both my personal vehicle and truck towing my boat to these expensive and pointless meetings with Paul about both the Mechanical and the Fiberglass issues with no resolution. So far it has been 9 months since the boat was damaged. I have been jerked around by Progressive Boat Insurance with substandard and incomplete mechanical work. I was told by Progressive that the boat was being fully repaired at Progressives expense and then 4 months later told it would not be. I've done many trips to both Phoenix Fiberglass and Martin Marine without accomplishing anything.

Jay

Gilbert, Arizona

U.S.A.

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