- Report: #131766
Complaint Review: Sanford Brown Institute Ultrasound Diagnostic Center - Trevose/Philadelphia Pennsylvania
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Sanford Brown Institute Ultrasound Diagnostic Center
3600 Horizon Blvd Trevose PA Trevose/Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
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215-355-4908
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Sanford Brown Institute Ultrasound Diagnostic Center Waste of time and money, Unqualified teachers, low quality students and faculty, lies, no follow through, no consistency, waste of time, anyone who wants to go here can, no security, no accountability Trevose, Philadelphia Pennsylvania
*Consumer Comment: You Go Girl
*Author of original report: when people found out about this site someone printed all the reports and made photo copies and handed them out all over the school
*Consumer Suggestion: I've been to this school that is located in New Jersey
*Consumer Suggestion: Student Loan Mills
*Consumer Suggestion: Student Loan Mills
*Consumer Suggestion: Student Loan Mills
*REBUTTAL Individual responds: I agree with you - but check your facts
*Consumer Comment: You have to read the fine print before you sign!
*Consumer Comment: You have to read the fine print before you sign!
*Consumer Comment: You have to read the fine print before you sign!
*Consumer Comment: Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
*Consumer Comment: Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
*Consumer Comment: Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
*Consumer Comment: Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
The funny thing about this school is that before I even decided to go here I had asked someone who went there before me what is it like? and I remember so vividly her saying don't go there I didn't understand why, I just figured maybe it would be a different experience since she was going at night and I was about to be a full time day student.
BUT she was so right. It doesn't matter if you go during the day, night or weekend you will get the same treatment and that is just that you are a complete number to this school.
I knew it early on even in the admissions process. The admissions rep was so pushy I remember leaving that day and thinking, did I just sign up for this school? they say anything to get you to sign on the dotted line. I remember my rep was like well how soon can you start and I said well I would need a little time to make sure I am ready to be back in school his response to me was well a new class starts on Monday, can you do that? We were having this discussion on a Wednesday evening!!! But I went along with it, it sounded all so good that I didn't want to have to wait till the next classes started which I was told was every 3 months, when actually they start every five weeks.
From the very first day of class I knew early on that it was a mistake. My first class was scheduled to start at 8 am. My teacher didn't even show up until 20 after 8 with no reason for her tardiness. It was just so normal to her it seemed.
I don't even remember what we did the 1st day but I can tell you it was probably sitting there waiting for her while she went to go make copies or whatever her reason for leaving the room was. This behavior continued through out the 9-month process. Teachers are late, they don't show up, they talk to you about gossip about the school, they are unqualified. The list is endless.
And the classes, the classes are suppose to train you to be in the medical field and feel good and confidant. But every class no matter what the subject matter is is only 5 weeks long. You have certain classes like computer applications that is so easy that you finish the material in the 1st week, and then have 4 weeks of just sitting there killing time until your next waste of time class. But the problem is, is that other classes that most people need more help in like
Venipuncture/hematology/phlebotomy that class is only 5 weeks long as well, and EKG's the same thing. There is no way that in a class of 30 people with a retard for a teacher that you can learn how to draw blood from a REAL LIVE PERSON in the field and run an EKG on a possible heart condition patient in 5 weeks, yet you can just breeze right through. The tests are open book, the finals are a joke, you pretty much have to teach yourself. So, then why am I paying $12,000 to teach myself.
There are fights between teachers and students. Students and teachers, Admissions and teachers it's all just one big mess.
Any time you complain it doesn't get taken care of. The 2nd week our class all decided that something just wasn't right. This wasn't turning out like we expected. We never got homework, we never learned a full 2 hours of the subject that was suppose to be taught to us. So we went to administration, and they took time out of their day and sat and talked with us. Writing down all of our concerns, assuring us they would rectify the problem and come back to us with the results. IT NEVER HAPPENED.
You can breeze through and get all A's without so much as attending class, paying attention, studying, doing your homework, missing tests. It was like kinder care.
I would advise anyone who is thinking about going here to NOT GO Find another school or try and go to college. These trade schools just sweep you trough the process and don't really care what you learn.
Everyday it is something new, bomb threats, stolen property, teacher gossip, waiting for your teacher, students doing drugs and stealing supplies, learning that the test you were suppose to have that day isn't happening that day, inept substitute teachers, rules that apply one day and don't apply the next day, and the admission rep who lured you in, I guarantee after 3 months of you being at that school you wont see him or her anymore, they just disappear. Maybe because they know that the person they lured in is going to come to them for answers.
Someone told me not to go here and I didn't listen, listen to me, and don't go. And if you are from around Bucks County/Philadelphia just go to a community college. It will be worth it.
And in other news: this is a report about CEC, which is the parent company of Sanford Brown. The story ran on CBS news (60 minutes) google it yourself if you don't believe me!
(CBS) Are you interested in a new career? Are you looking for specialized training and a high-paying job in computers, fashion or health care? Well, a lot of people must be, because companies selling that dream, the for-profit career colleges, are one of the fastest growing area in the field of education.
It's a multi-billion dollar business with most of the revenues guaranteed by the federal government, and until recently the industry was the darling of Wall Street.
Now, it's under scrutiny, with one of the biggest players facing allegations that it deceived investors, the federal government, and students, who say they've been taught a very expensive lesson. Correspondent Steve Kroft reports.
If you've ever watched daytime TV, you've probably seen one of Career Education Corporation's ads offering students a brand-new life.
Ever think you could be part of this? With the right training, you can!
That one was for the Katharine Gibbs schools, which were bought by Career Education Corporation in 1997, and make up just a small part of its scholastic empire.
A year ago, CEC was one the hottest stocks on the NASDAQ exchange, with five years of record growth and $1 billion in annual revenue. It comes from nearly 100,000 students at 82 different campuses, taking classes in everything from computer animation to the culinary arts.
Brooks College in Long Beach, Calif., offers training in fashion and design, but its graduates have a special nickname for their alma mater: Crooks College.
Why?
Cuz they robbed us, says one graduate.
Everything was a lie, says another.
What was the biggest lie?
Job placement -- 98 percent job placement, several graduates said. They said, like, starting $30,000 a year, $30,000 or more.
Brooke Shoelberg, Chanee Thurston, and Amanda Harris enrolled to study fashion merchandising after the school signed them up for tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, and showed them videos promising to help them get jobs with companies like Giorgio Armani.
Did Brooks College find any of them a job? No, they said.
Did it make an attempt to find them a job? Again, they said no. The school declined to comment, but 60 Minutes knows that all three women graduated near the top of their classes. A year later, none had been able to find the kind of job she was supposedly trained for.
Brooke was managing a telephone store; Amanda was unemployed; and Chanee was selling T-shirts. All of them went heavily into debt to get a two-year degree they now believe has little value.
The school has no credibility with the fashion industry, whatsoever, says Thurston.
Complaints, laid out in a number of lawsuits against CEC by former students, investors, and employees, are now under investigation by the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission.
The lawsuits and the investigations were cited by CEC as the reason for declining a request by 60 Minutes for an on-camera interview.
But there were plenty of other people willing to talk on-camera. One man, who wore sunglasses and a visor, said, I am completely embarrassed that I ever worked at Brooks College or for CEC.
This man, along with two of his former colleagues, Barry Ross and Eric Shannon, used to work at Brooks College. They say there were some dedicated teachers there, but that the administration was more interested in making money than in educating students.
Ross' title was admissions representative. But Shannon says we were really sales people.
Selling the dream, basically, says Ross.
We're selling you that you're gonna have a 95 percent chance that you are gonna have a job paying $35,000 to $40,000 a year by the time they are done in 18 months, says Shannon. We later found out it's not true at all.
Yeah, it wasn't true at all, says Ross.
According to an evaluation report from the Western Association of Schools and Colleges, Only about 38 percent of brooks students ever finish the program, and the average starting salary for all graduates is less than $11 dollars per hour.
The admission counselors told 60 Minutes they were expected to enroll three high school graduates a week, regardless of their ability to complete the coursework. And if they didn't meet those quotas, they were out of a job, which is what the man in sunglasses says happened to him. They all say the pressure produced some very aggressive sales tactics.
In that way, the job was a lot like a used-car lot, because if I couldn't close you, my boss would come in, try to close you, says Shannon.
The enrollment fee was $50. You need three things, says the man in sunglasses. You need $50, a pulse, and you've got to be able to sign your name. That's about it.
You have to sign your name to a government loan form. The government-backed student loans are crucial to the entire industry.
In 2003, they made up nearly 60 percent of CEC's revenues. And in order to be eligible for that money, CEC is required to provide students with accurate information about job placement.
Would CEC exist if it weren't for government loans?
I don't believe that they would be a $1 billion company in 10 years, if it weren't for the federal government loan programs, says Tami Hanson, who was once the national manager in charge of student placement for all of Career Education Corporation's campuses in the United States.
Hanson, who was fired a few months ago, was one of more than 50 current or former employees with whom 60 Minutes spoke at more than a dozen schools. All had variations of the same story.
What was the corporate culture like?
All about the numbers, all about the numbers, says Hanson. Getting students enrolled, getting students in the seats. Keeping students in the seats, getting them passed enough to graduate, and then trying to get them any job we could.
But getting students any job they could did not necessarily mean getting them jobs they were trained for. And she says a job placement could mean just about almost anything.
It may be that, you know, they end up placing them folding T-shirts at the Gap at a fashion, as a fashion grad -- which is fine, but not what they were promised in the beginning, says Hanson.
And a job they could've gotten without paying $15,000 or $30,000, says Kroft.
Actually, it is more like $30,00 $60,000 and $80,000 depending on the program, says Hanson.
Hanson says the quality of education varies from school to school, and that there are some very good programs and highly motivated students who find successful careers. But she says too many students simply don't have the aptitude or the skills necessary to succeed in class or the workplace.
They were not prepared, but at the same time, the instructors were really pressured to pass them through that class to keep them in school, says Hanson.
So CEC could keep collecting the government money? So they could keep the revenue, says Hanson.
CEC has denied these and other allegations in response to various lawsuits, and it says it's made compliance with government regulations and investigating complaints a top priority.
Chairman John Larson wrote 60 Minutes saying, We'll investigate the situations cited in your report and take appropriate corrective action as violations are identified.
And it did not take long to find a violation. To see how the admissions process works, 60 Minutes Associate Producer Jennifer MacDonald, armed with a hidden camera, went to a number of CEC schools in the New York area.
At the Katharine Gibbs School, she began by asking about graduation rates. She was told that 89 percent graduated.
But that wasn't even close. According to the Department of Education's most recent figures from 2003, this school's graduation rate was 29 percent not 89 percent, a difference of 60 points. Federal regulations require that prospective students be given the official statistics in writing prior to enrollment and the admission representative seemed ready to sign MacDonald up.
When MacDonald wanted to know about a career in fashion, this is what she was told: These jobs pay a lot of money. You're looking at, if you take this craft and be very serious about it, you can make anywhere from hundreds of thousands to if you go up to be a designer."
But not everything at Career Education Corporation is fashion or business. Its Sanford Brown Institutes prepare students for careers in health care; training ultrasound and cardiovascular technicians; and medical and surgical assistants.
The admission representative told the associate producer that the school was highly selective. So MacDonald did everything she could to disqualify herself for admission to become a medical assistant, a nine-month program that costs almost $13,000 prepares students for entry-level positions.
When lousy grades and prior drug use weren't enough to get her rejected, she tried a different approach. She told them she had a "problem with blood." The representative told her that 98 percent of our students have a problem with blood. The first day of the module, they don't hand you a syringe and say, 'Go for it.'
The school did require the associate producer to take an admission test. She intentionally flunked it, getting just 7 out of 50 questions correct. But the school allowed her to take another test with different questions. This time, the admission representative said she had doubled her score to 14 out of 50, and that was just good enough to qualify for admission.
Although it was easy to get in, all the counselors told MacDonald she would have to work hard and attend class to complete the course. But Hanson says what CEC is most interested in is tuition.
They want to say that the student comes first, but I think it becomes obvious to anybody that works in the school, that the student does not come first, says Hanson.
Where does the student come? The student comes with how many dollar signs are attached to them. And anything after that is secondary, says Hanson.
CEC is not the only publicly traded career-school operator in trouble with the federal government. Last fall, the Department of Education handed out its largest fine ever -- $9.8 million dollars to the Apollo Group and its University of Phoenix for admitting unqualified students to boost enrollment.
And a year ago, federal agents raided the headquarters and 10 campuses of ITT Educational Services, investigating charges of falsified grades and attendance records.
Nick Glakas is president of the Career College Association, a Washington lobbying group that represents 1,100 career colleges in the United States.
This is not an industrywide problem. And let me address the whole question of being under investigation, says Glakas. Allegations from a legal standpoint are not facts and are not evidence.
Glakas says career colleges are a passport into the middle class for millions of people, a gateway to the American dream.
Twenty-five percent of our students are working adults. Fifty percent are minority. Seventy percent are the first in their family to go to college. This is an extraordinary success story, says Glakas.
Rep. Maxine Waters, who represents the poorest district in Los Angeles, isn't so sure. For the past 15 years, she's been the industry's most persistent critic.
I have seen young person after young person who simply wanted to get trained for a trade, for a job, get ripped off, says Waters.
Why hasn't anything been done? These private post-secondary schools are very sophisticated in its politics, and they actually have members of Congress who protect them, she says.
Over the past two years, career colleges and lending institutions that benefit from government-backed student loans handed out more than a million dollars in campaign contributions to members of the House Education Committee. Half of that money went to the committee's two ranking members: Chairman John Boehner of Ohio and Buck McKeon of California. Both declined requests for interviews.
As for the sales reps whom 60 Minutes spoke with, Barry Ross has filed a discrimination lawsuit against CEC. Eric Shannon now works in finance, and the young man is the sunglasses is selling cars.
And the Brooks College graduates? They feel betrayed. They were sold the idea that an investment in education would change their lives. This investment did, but not in the way they were promised.
My mother told me to declare bankruptcy and I'm only 21, says Thurston. She said it'll go away in 10 years so when I'm 31 I can start my life all over.
But we are all students that did everything we were supposed to, we gave it our all, says Amanda Harris. And we're still jobless. You know, like, it doesn't make sense.
Shannon
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
U.S.A.
BUT she was so right. It doesn't matter if you go during the day, night or weekend you will get the same treatment and that is just that you are a complete number to this school.
I knew it early on even in the admissions process. The admissions rep was so pushy I remember leaving that day and thinking, did I just sign up for this school? they say anything to get you to sign on the dotted line. I remember my rep was like well how soon can you start and I said well I would need a little time to make sure I am ready to be back in school his response to me was well a new class starts on Monday, can you do that? We were having this discussion on a Wednesday evening!!! But I went along with it, it sounded all so good that I didn't want to have to wait till the next classes started which I was told was every 3 months, when actually they start every five weeks.
From the very first day of class I knew early on that it was a mistake. My first class was scheduled to start at 8 am. My teacher didn't even show up until 20 after 8 with no reason for her tardiness. It was just so normal to her it seemed.
I don't even remember what we did the 1st day but I can tell you it was probably sitting there waiting for her while she went to go make copies or whatever her reason for leaving the room was. This behavior continued through out the 9-month process. Teachers are late, they don't show up, they talk to you about gossip about the school, they are unqualified. The list is endless.
And the classes, the classes are suppose to train you to be in the medical field and feel good and confidant. But every class no matter what the subject matter is is only 5 weeks long. You have certain classes like computer applications that is so easy that you finish the material in the 1st week, and then have 4 weeks of just sitting there killing time until your next waste of time class. But the problem is, is that other classes that most people need more help in like
Venipuncture/hematology/phlebotomy that class is only 5 weeks long as well, and EKG's the same thing. There is no way that in a class of 30 people with a retard for a teacher that you can learn how to draw blood from a REAL LIVE PERSON in the field and run an EKG on a possible heart condition patient in 5 weeks, yet you can just breeze right through. The tests are open book, the finals are a joke, you pretty much have to teach yourself. So, then why am I paying $12,000 to teach myself.
There are fights between teachers and students. Students and teachers, Admissions and teachers it's all just one big mess.
Any time you complain it doesn't get taken care of. The 2nd week our class all decided that something just wasn't right. This wasn't turning out like we expected. We never got homework, we never learned a full 2 hours of the subject that was suppose to be taught to us. So we went to administration, and they took time out of their day and sat and talked with us. Writing down all of our concerns, assuring us they would rectify the problem and come back to us with the results. IT NEVER HAPPENED.
You can breeze through and get all A's without so much as attending class, paying attention, studying, doing your homework, missing tests. It was like kinder care.
I would advise anyone who is thinking about going here to NOT GO Find another school or try and go to college. These trade schools just sweep you trough the process and don't really care what you learn.
Everyday it is something new, bomb threats, stolen property, teacher gossip, waiting for your teacher, students doing drugs and stealing supplies, learning that the test you were suppose to have that day isn't happening that day, inept substitute teachers, rules that apply one day and don't apply the next day, and the admission rep who lured you in, I guarantee after 3 months of you being at that school you wont see him or her anymore, they just disappear. Maybe because they know that the person they lured in is going to come to them for answers.
Someone told me not to go here and I didn't listen, listen to me, and don't go. And if you are from around Bucks County/Philadelphia just go to a community college. It will be worth it.
And in other news: this is a report about CEC, which is the parent company of Sanford Brown. The story ran on CBS news (60 minutes) google it yourself if you don't believe me!
(CBS) Are you interested in a new career? Are you looking for specialized training and a high-paying job in computers, fashion or health care? Well, a lot of people must be, because companies selling that dream, the for-profit career colleges, are one of the fastest growing area in the field of education.
It's a multi-billion dollar business with most of the revenues guaranteed by the federal government, and until recently the industry was the darling of Wall Street.
Now, it's under scrutiny, with one of the biggest players facing allegations that it deceived investors, the federal government, and students, who say they've been taught a very expensive lesson. Correspondent Steve Kroft reports.
If you've ever watched daytime TV, you've probably seen one of Career Education Corporation's ads offering students a brand-new life.
Ever think you could be part of this? With the right training, you can!
That one was for the Katharine Gibbs schools, which were bought by Career Education Corporation in 1997, and make up just a small part of its scholastic empire.
A year ago, CEC was one the hottest stocks on the NASDAQ exchange, with five years of record growth and $1 billion in annual revenue. It comes from nearly 100,000 students at 82 different campuses, taking classes in everything from computer animation to the culinary arts.
Brooks College in Long Beach, Calif., offers training in fashion and design, but its graduates have a special nickname for their alma mater: Crooks College.
Why?
Cuz they robbed us, says one graduate.
Everything was a lie, says another.
What was the biggest lie?
Job placement -- 98 percent job placement, several graduates said. They said, like, starting $30,000 a year, $30,000 or more.
Brooke Shoelberg, Chanee Thurston, and Amanda Harris enrolled to study fashion merchandising after the school signed them up for tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, and showed them videos promising to help them get jobs with companies like Giorgio Armani.
Did Brooks College find any of them a job? No, they said.
Did it make an attempt to find them a job? Again, they said no. The school declined to comment, but 60 Minutes knows that all three women graduated near the top of their classes. A year later, none had been able to find the kind of job she was supposedly trained for.
Brooke was managing a telephone store; Amanda was unemployed; and Chanee was selling T-shirts. All of them went heavily into debt to get a two-year degree they now believe has little value.
The school has no credibility with the fashion industry, whatsoever, says Thurston.
Complaints, laid out in a number of lawsuits against CEC by former students, investors, and employees, are now under investigation by the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission.
The lawsuits and the investigations were cited by CEC as the reason for declining a request by 60 Minutes for an on-camera interview.
But there were plenty of other people willing to talk on-camera. One man, who wore sunglasses and a visor, said, I am completely embarrassed that I ever worked at Brooks College or for CEC.
This man, along with two of his former colleagues, Barry Ross and Eric Shannon, used to work at Brooks College. They say there were some dedicated teachers there, but that the administration was more interested in making money than in educating students.
Ross' title was admissions representative. But Shannon says we were really sales people.
Selling the dream, basically, says Ross.
We're selling you that you're gonna have a 95 percent chance that you are gonna have a job paying $35,000 to $40,000 a year by the time they are done in 18 months, says Shannon. We later found out it's not true at all.
Yeah, it wasn't true at all, says Ross.
According to an evaluation report from the Western Association of Schools and Colleges, Only about 38 percent of brooks students ever finish the program, and the average starting salary for all graduates is less than $11 dollars per hour.
The admission counselors told 60 Minutes they were expected to enroll three high school graduates a week, regardless of their ability to complete the coursework. And if they didn't meet those quotas, they were out of a job, which is what the man in sunglasses says happened to him. They all say the pressure produced some very aggressive sales tactics.
In that way, the job was a lot like a used-car lot, because if I couldn't close you, my boss would come in, try to close you, says Shannon.
The enrollment fee was $50. You need three things, says the man in sunglasses. You need $50, a pulse, and you've got to be able to sign your name. That's about it.
You have to sign your name to a government loan form. The government-backed student loans are crucial to the entire industry.
In 2003, they made up nearly 60 percent of CEC's revenues. And in order to be eligible for that money, CEC is required to provide students with accurate information about job placement.
Would CEC exist if it weren't for government loans?
I don't believe that they would be a $1 billion company in 10 years, if it weren't for the federal government loan programs, says Tami Hanson, who was once the national manager in charge of student placement for all of Career Education Corporation's campuses in the United States.
Hanson, who was fired a few months ago, was one of more than 50 current or former employees with whom 60 Minutes spoke at more than a dozen schools. All had variations of the same story.
What was the corporate culture like?
All about the numbers, all about the numbers, says Hanson. Getting students enrolled, getting students in the seats. Keeping students in the seats, getting them passed enough to graduate, and then trying to get them any job we could.
But getting students any job they could did not necessarily mean getting them jobs they were trained for. And she says a job placement could mean just about almost anything.
It may be that, you know, they end up placing them folding T-shirts at the Gap at a fashion, as a fashion grad -- which is fine, but not what they were promised in the beginning, says Hanson.
And a job they could've gotten without paying $15,000 or $30,000, says Kroft.
Actually, it is more like $30,00 $60,000 and $80,000 depending on the program, says Hanson.
Hanson says the quality of education varies from school to school, and that there are some very good programs and highly motivated students who find successful careers. But she says too many students simply don't have the aptitude or the skills necessary to succeed in class or the workplace.
They were not prepared, but at the same time, the instructors were really pressured to pass them through that class to keep them in school, says Hanson.
So CEC could keep collecting the government money? So they could keep the revenue, says Hanson.
CEC has denied these and other allegations in response to various lawsuits, and it says it's made compliance with government regulations and investigating complaints a top priority.
Chairman John Larson wrote 60 Minutes saying, We'll investigate the situations cited in your report and take appropriate corrective action as violations are identified.
And it did not take long to find a violation. To see how the admissions process works, 60 Minutes Associate Producer Jennifer MacDonald, armed with a hidden camera, went to a number of CEC schools in the New York area.
At the Katharine Gibbs School, she began by asking about graduation rates. She was told that 89 percent graduated.
But that wasn't even close. According to the Department of Education's most recent figures from 2003, this school's graduation rate was 29 percent not 89 percent, a difference of 60 points. Federal regulations require that prospective students be given the official statistics in writing prior to enrollment and the admission representative seemed ready to sign MacDonald up.
When MacDonald wanted to know about a career in fashion, this is what she was told: These jobs pay a lot of money. You're looking at, if you take this craft and be very serious about it, you can make anywhere from hundreds of thousands to if you go up to be a designer."
But not everything at Career Education Corporation is fashion or business. Its Sanford Brown Institutes prepare students for careers in health care; training ultrasound and cardiovascular technicians; and medical and surgical assistants.
The admission representative told the associate producer that the school was highly selective. So MacDonald did everything she could to disqualify herself for admission to become a medical assistant, a nine-month program that costs almost $13,000 prepares students for entry-level positions.
When lousy grades and prior drug use weren't enough to get her rejected, she tried a different approach. She told them she had a "problem with blood." The representative told her that 98 percent of our students have a problem with blood. The first day of the module, they don't hand you a syringe and say, 'Go for it.'
The school did require the associate producer to take an admission test. She intentionally flunked it, getting just 7 out of 50 questions correct. But the school allowed her to take another test with different questions. This time, the admission representative said she had doubled her score to 14 out of 50, and that was just good enough to qualify for admission.
Although it was easy to get in, all the counselors told MacDonald she would have to work hard and attend class to complete the course. But Hanson says what CEC is most interested in is tuition.
They want to say that the student comes first, but I think it becomes obvious to anybody that works in the school, that the student does not come first, says Hanson.
Where does the student come? The student comes with how many dollar signs are attached to them. And anything after that is secondary, says Hanson.
CEC is not the only publicly traded career-school operator in trouble with the federal government. Last fall, the Department of Education handed out its largest fine ever -- $9.8 million dollars to the Apollo Group and its University of Phoenix for admitting unqualified students to boost enrollment.
And a year ago, federal agents raided the headquarters and 10 campuses of ITT Educational Services, investigating charges of falsified grades and attendance records.
Nick Glakas is president of the Career College Association, a Washington lobbying group that represents 1,100 career colleges in the United States.
This is not an industrywide problem. And let me address the whole question of being under investigation, says Glakas. Allegations from a legal standpoint are not facts and are not evidence.
Glakas says career colleges are a passport into the middle class for millions of people, a gateway to the American dream.
Twenty-five percent of our students are working adults. Fifty percent are minority. Seventy percent are the first in their family to go to college. This is an extraordinary success story, says Glakas.
Rep. Maxine Waters, who represents the poorest district in Los Angeles, isn't so sure. For the past 15 years, she's been the industry's most persistent critic.
I have seen young person after young person who simply wanted to get trained for a trade, for a job, get ripped off, says Waters.
Why hasn't anything been done? These private post-secondary schools are very sophisticated in its politics, and they actually have members of Congress who protect them, she says.
Over the past two years, career colleges and lending institutions that benefit from government-backed student loans handed out more than a million dollars in campaign contributions to members of the House Education Committee. Half of that money went to the committee's two ranking members: Chairman John Boehner of Ohio and Buck McKeon of California. Both declined requests for interviews.
As for the sales reps whom 60 Minutes spoke with, Barry Ross has filed a discrimination lawsuit against CEC. Eric Shannon now works in finance, and the young man is the sunglasses is selling cars.
And the Brooks College graduates? They feel betrayed. They were sold the idea that an investment in education would change their lives. This investment did, but not in the way they were promised.
My mother told me to declare bankruptcy and I'm only 21, says Thurston. She said it'll go away in 10 years so when I'm 31 I can start my life all over.
But we are all students that did everything we were supposed to, we gave it our all, says Amanda Harris. And we're still jobless. You know, like, it doesn't make sense.
Shannon
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
U.S.A.
14 Updates & Rebuttals
Carla
Franklinville,New Jersey,
U.S.A.
Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
#2Consumer Comment
Mon, September 05, 2005
If you are a part of an organization that you know actively gives the appearance of impropriety, then you are in fact a part of the conspiracy. (Trust me, I have worked in techncial schools and I KNOW what they tell their people to say) That being said.... There is help for students in multiple states as say per the US Department of Education. Because this problem is growing from NJ to DC to CA, certain states have set up contact. PA Education site seems to have the most information at the following site. http://www.pdehighered.state.pa.us/higher/cwp/view.asp?A=5&Q=114719 For those of you that feel you can not contact anyone, now you can contact your local Departments of Education. They even put out an article as they offer to help students such as yourself that went to CEC schools, Sanford Brown and Harrison Career Institute. Some even set up websites and complaint forums. It may have taken time, as it is larger then just the states, its a Federal issue, across the board it appears. But because of people like you. It will happen. This is FEDERAL now. Hang in there and you will be victorious. Truth crushed to the ground shall rise, as no lie can live the test of time. The Federal government decides who is telling the truth now. If Martha Stewrd can be busted NOT for insider trading but lying about insider trading, then what can the Feds do with such a mountain of evidence. Doesn't matter what you "tell your students" as a financial aid officer and "have them read the fine print." You may say its enough to tell the students about the forms and fine print,(and maybe you need to tell yourelf that to sleep at night) but obviously the Feds disagree. Hope this helps! MORE INFORMATION See www.ed.gov for general information about the Department of Education and federal student loan programs, how to repay loans, and applying for a loan discharge under specific circumstances. See http://studentaid.ed.gov for information in English and Spanish about federal student aid. Call (800) 433-3243 for general student aid questions. TO LEARN MORE According to the U.S. Department of Education, students with questions about Harrison Career Institute may call: Delaware Department of Education: (302) 739-4686 Maryland Higher Education Commission: (410) 260-4500 New Jersey Department of Education: (609) 984-5262 Pennsylvania Department of Education: (717) 787-4645 Accrediting Commission Of Career Schools & Colleges of Technology: (703) 247-4212 More oversight needed for vocational schools RELATED STORIES Harrison to reopen Aug. 31 U.S.: School mishandled loans Monday, August 29, 2005 Federal and state regulators rely too much on self-reporting by schools, but some can't be trusted to tell the truth. Private vocational schools thrive off taxpayer-backed student loans. More than half of their students depend on the loan programs to pay for their education, which can sometimes cost more than a four-year program at a public university. These schools serve a useful purpose, as not all students go to college. But some private vocational schools seem to put more effort into getting loan payments than educating students. Usually, federal and state regulators are the last to learn when schools aren't delivering promised job training or opportunities. Regulators rely too heavily on the honor system as schools tell regulators whether they are complying with federal loan and state education requirements. There is too much opportunity for lax compliance or outright cheating. Voorhees-based Harrison Career Institute, a private vocational school, is facing allegations that it mishandled student loans and didn't offer contracted courses. The owner, Harrison Commisso, vigorously denies the allegations and is fighting a proposed $3.6 million fine the U.S. Department of Education plans to impose. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California and other states are reviewing business practices at vocational schools owned by Career Education Corp., including the Sanford Brown Institute in Iselin, Middlesex County. In April, a CBS 60 Minutes report claimed Career Education schools routinely pressured unqualified students to enroll and grossly overstated its graduation and job placement rates. The New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development said it is closely reviewing Sanford Brown's application for renewal. Still, it is rare for the state to go beyond looking over the paperwork when schools renew operating licenses each year as required, a spokesman said. Usually, it takes complaints from several students or school staff to initiate an investigation of business practices. Oversight must be tightened. U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., has tried for 15 years to get Congress to impose more stringent regulation. Waters told 60 Minutes some congressional members protect the schools. As a group, private vocational schools have contributed more than $1 million in campaign contributions to federal officials during the past two years, 60 Minutes found. Half of that money was given to House Education Committee Chairman John Boehner, R-Ohio, and U.S. Rep. Howard P. McKeon, R-Calif. Taxpayers and vocational students need leaders who will protect them. Our elected federal and state officials must hold these schools more accountable for educating students and complying with federal loan regulations. That will happen if voters start holding elected officials accountable for how well vocational schools operate
Carla
Franklinville,New Jersey,
U.S.A.
Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
#3Consumer Comment
Mon, September 05, 2005
If you are a part of an organization that you know actively gives the appearance of impropriety, then you are in fact a part of the conspiracy. (Trust me, I have worked in techncial schools and I KNOW what they tell their people to say) That being said.... There is help for students in multiple states as say per the US Department of Education. Because this problem is growing from NJ to DC to CA, certain states have set up contact. PA Education site seems to have the most information at the following site. http://www.pdehighered.state.pa.us/higher/cwp/view.asp?A=5&Q=114719 For those of you that feel you can not contact anyone, now you can contact your local Departments of Education. They even put out an article as they offer to help students such as yourself that went to CEC schools, Sanford Brown and Harrison Career Institute. Some even set up websites and complaint forums. It may have taken time, as it is larger then just the states, its a Federal issue, across the board it appears. But because of people like you. It will happen. This is FEDERAL now. Hang in there and you will be victorious. Truth crushed to the ground shall rise, as no lie can live the test of time. The Federal government decides who is telling the truth now. If Martha Stewrd can be busted NOT for insider trading but lying about insider trading, then what can the Feds do with such a mountain of evidence. Doesn't matter what you "tell your students" as a financial aid officer and "have them read the fine print." You may say its enough to tell the students about the forms and fine print,(and maybe you need to tell yourelf that to sleep at night) but obviously the Feds disagree. Hope this helps! MORE INFORMATION See www.ed.gov for general information about the Department of Education and federal student loan programs, how to repay loans, and applying for a loan discharge under specific circumstances. See http://studentaid.ed.gov for information in English and Spanish about federal student aid. Call (800) 433-3243 for general student aid questions. TO LEARN MORE According to the U.S. Department of Education, students with questions about Harrison Career Institute may call: Delaware Department of Education: (302) 739-4686 Maryland Higher Education Commission: (410) 260-4500 New Jersey Department of Education: (609) 984-5262 Pennsylvania Department of Education: (717) 787-4645 Accrediting Commission Of Career Schools & Colleges of Technology: (703) 247-4212 More oversight needed for vocational schools RELATED STORIES Harrison to reopen Aug. 31 U.S.: School mishandled loans Monday, August 29, 2005 Federal and state regulators rely too much on self-reporting by schools, but some can't be trusted to tell the truth. Private vocational schools thrive off taxpayer-backed student loans. More than half of their students depend on the loan programs to pay for their education, which can sometimes cost more than a four-year program at a public university. These schools serve a useful purpose, as not all students go to college. But some private vocational schools seem to put more effort into getting loan payments than educating students. Usually, federal and state regulators are the last to learn when schools aren't delivering promised job training or opportunities. Regulators rely too heavily on the honor system as schools tell regulators whether they are complying with federal loan and state education requirements. There is too much opportunity for lax compliance or outright cheating. Voorhees-based Harrison Career Institute, a private vocational school, is facing allegations that it mishandled student loans and didn't offer contracted courses. The owner, Harrison Commisso, vigorously denies the allegations and is fighting a proposed $3.6 million fine the U.S. Department of Education plans to impose. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California and other states are reviewing business practices at vocational schools owned by Career Education Corp., including the Sanford Brown Institute in Iselin, Middlesex County. In April, a CBS 60 Minutes report claimed Career Education schools routinely pressured unqualified students to enroll and grossly overstated its graduation and job placement rates. The New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development said it is closely reviewing Sanford Brown's application for renewal. Still, it is rare for the state to go beyond looking over the paperwork when schools renew operating licenses each year as required, a spokesman said. Usually, it takes complaints from several students or school staff to initiate an investigation of business practices. Oversight must be tightened. U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., has tried for 15 years to get Congress to impose more stringent regulation. Waters told 60 Minutes some congressional members protect the schools. As a group, private vocational schools have contributed more than $1 million in campaign contributions to federal officials during the past two years, 60 Minutes found. Half of that money was given to House Education Committee Chairman John Boehner, R-Ohio, and U.S. Rep. Howard P. McKeon, R-Calif. Taxpayers and vocational students need leaders who will protect them. Our elected federal and state officials must hold these schools more accountable for educating students and complying with federal loan regulations. That will happen if voters start holding elected officials accountable for how well vocational schools operate
Carla
Franklinville,New Jersey,
U.S.A.
Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
#4Consumer Comment
Mon, September 05, 2005
If you are a part of an organization that you know actively gives the appearance of impropriety, then you are in fact a part of the conspiracy. (Trust me, I have worked in techncial schools and I KNOW what they tell their people to say) That being said.... There is help for students in multiple states as say per the US Department of Education. Because this problem is growing from NJ to DC to CA, certain states have set up contact. PA Education site seems to have the most information at the following site. http://www.pdehighered.state.pa.us/higher/cwp/view.asp?A=5&Q=114719 For those of you that feel you can not contact anyone, now you can contact your local Departments of Education. They even put out an article as they offer to help students such as yourself that went to CEC schools, Sanford Brown and Harrison Career Institute. Some even set up websites and complaint forums. It may have taken time, as it is larger then just the states, its a Federal issue, across the board it appears. But because of people like you. It will happen. This is FEDERAL now. Hang in there and you will be victorious. Truth crushed to the ground shall rise, as no lie can live the test of time. The Federal government decides who is telling the truth now. If Martha Stewrd can be busted NOT for insider trading but lying about insider trading, then what can the Feds do with such a mountain of evidence. Doesn't matter what you "tell your students" as a financial aid officer and "have them read the fine print." You may say its enough to tell the students about the forms and fine print,(and maybe you need to tell yourelf that to sleep at night) but obviously the Feds disagree. Hope this helps! MORE INFORMATION See www.ed.gov for general information about the Department of Education and federal student loan programs, how to repay loans, and applying for a loan discharge under specific circumstances. See http://studentaid.ed.gov for information in English and Spanish about federal student aid. Call (800) 433-3243 for general student aid questions. TO LEARN MORE According to the U.S. Department of Education, students with questions about Harrison Career Institute may call: Delaware Department of Education: (302) 739-4686 Maryland Higher Education Commission: (410) 260-4500 New Jersey Department of Education: (609) 984-5262 Pennsylvania Department of Education: (717) 787-4645 Accrediting Commission Of Career Schools & Colleges of Technology: (703) 247-4212 More oversight needed for vocational schools RELATED STORIES Harrison to reopen Aug. 31 U.S.: School mishandled loans Monday, August 29, 2005 Federal and state regulators rely too much on self-reporting by schools, but some can't be trusted to tell the truth. Private vocational schools thrive off taxpayer-backed student loans. More than half of their students depend on the loan programs to pay for their education, which can sometimes cost more than a four-year program at a public university. These schools serve a useful purpose, as not all students go to college. But some private vocational schools seem to put more effort into getting loan payments than educating students. Usually, federal and state regulators are the last to learn when schools aren't delivering promised job training or opportunities. Regulators rely too heavily on the honor system as schools tell regulators whether they are complying with federal loan and state education requirements. There is too much opportunity for lax compliance or outright cheating. Voorhees-based Harrison Career Institute, a private vocational school, is facing allegations that it mishandled student loans and didn't offer contracted courses. The owner, Harrison Commisso, vigorously denies the allegations and is fighting a proposed $3.6 million fine the U.S. Department of Education plans to impose. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California and other states are reviewing business practices at vocational schools owned by Career Education Corp., including the Sanford Brown Institute in Iselin, Middlesex County. In April, a CBS 60 Minutes report claimed Career Education schools routinely pressured unqualified students to enroll and grossly overstated its graduation and job placement rates. The New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development said it is closely reviewing Sanford Brown's application for renewal. Still, it is rare for the state to go beyond looking over the paperwork when schools renew operating licenses each year as required, a spokesman said. Usually, it takes complaints from several students or school staff to initiate an investigation of business practices. Oversight must be tightened. U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., has tried for 15 years to get Congress to impose more stringent regulation. Waters told 60 Minutes some congressional members protect the schools. As a group, private vocational schools have contributed more than $1 million in campaign contributions to federal officials during the past two years, 60 Minutes found. Half of that money was given to House Education Committee Chairman John Boehner, R-Ohio, and U.S. Rep. Howard P. McKeon, R-Calif. Taxpayers and vocational students need leaders who will protect them. Our elected federal and state officials must hold these schools more accountable for educating students and complying with federal loan regulations. That will happen if voters start holding elected officials accountable for how well vocational schools operate
Carla
Franklinville,New Jersey,
U.S.A.
Tell It to The FEDS .. No Matter What "you" or any financial officer says about signing on the dotted line, It's not good enough for The Feds
#5Consumer Comment
Mon, September 05, 2005
If you are a part of an organization that you know actively gives the appearance of impropriety, then you are in fact a part of the conspiracy. (Trust me, I have worked in techncial schools and I KNOW what they tell their people to say) That being said.... There is help for students in multiple states as say per the US Department of Education. Because this problem is growing from NJ to DC to CA, certain states have set up contact. PA Education site seems to have the most information at the following site. http://www.pdehighered.state.pa.us/higher/cwp/view.asp?A=5&Q=114719 For those of you that feel you can not contact anyone, now you can contact your local Departments of Education. They even put out an article as they offer to help students such as yourself that went to CEC schools, Sanford Brown and Harrison Career Institute. Some even set up websites and complaint forums. It may have taken time, as it is larger then just the states, its a Federal issue, across the board it appears. But because of people like you. It will happen. This is FEDERAL now. Hang in there and you will be victorious. Truth crushed to the ground shall rise, as no lie can live the test of time. The Federal government decides who is telling the truth now. If Martha Stewrd can be busted NOT for insider trading but lying about insider trading, then what can the Feds do with such a mountain of evidence. Doesn't matter what you "tell your students" as a financial aid officer and "have them read the fine print." You may say its enough to tell the students about the forms and fine print,(and maybe you need to tell yourelf that to sleep at night) but obviously the Feds disagree. Hope this helps! MORE INFORMATION See www.ed.gov for general information about the Department of Education and federal student loan programs, how to repay loans, and applying for a loan discharge under specific circumstances. See http://studentaid.ed.gov for information in English and Spanish about federal student aid. Call (800) 433-3243 for general student aid questions. TO LEARN MORE According to the U.S. Department of Education, students with questions about Harrison Career Institute may call: Delaware Department of Education: (302) 739-4686 Maryland Higher Education Commission: (410) 260-4500 New Jersey Department of Education: (609) 984-5262 Pennsylvania Department of Education: (717) 787-4645 Accrediting Commission Of Career Schools & Colleges of Technology: (703) 247-4212 More oversight needed for vocational schools RELATED STORIES Harrison to reopen Aug. 31 U.S.: School mishandled loans Monday, August 29, 2005 Federal and state regulators rely too much on self-reporting by schools, but some can't be trusted to tell the truth. Private vocational schools thrive off taxpayer-backed student loans. More than half of their students depend on the loan programs to pay for their education, which can sometimes cost more than a four-year program at a public university. These schools serve a useful purpose, as not all students go to college. But some private vocational schools seem to put more effort into getting loan payments than educating students. Usually, federal and state regulators are the last to learn when schools aren't delivering promised job training or opportunities. Regulators rely too heavily on the honor system as schools tell regulators whether they are complying with federal loan and state education requirements. There is too much opportunity for lax compliance or outright cheating. Voorhees-based Harrison Career Institute, a private vocational school, is facing allegations that it mishandled student loans and didn't offer contracted courses. The owner, Harrison Commisso, vigorously denies the allegations and is fighting a proposed $3.6 million fine the U.S. Department of Education plans to impose. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California and other states are reviewing business practices at vocational schools owned by Career Education Corp., including the Sanford Brown Institute in Iselin, Middlesex County. In April, a CBS 60 Minutes report claimed Career Education schools routinely pressured unqualified students to enroll and grossly overstated its graduation and job placement rates. The New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development said it is closely reviewing Sanford Brown's application for renewal. Still, it is rare for the state to go beyond looking over the paperwork when schools renew operating licenses each year as required, a spokesman said. Usually, it takes complaints from several students or school staff to initiate an investigation of business practices. Oversight must be tightened. U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., has tried for 15 years to get Congress to impose more stringent regulation. Waters told 60 Minutes some congressional members protect the schools. As a group, private vocational schools have contributed more than $1 million in campaign contributions to federal officials during the past two years, 60 Minutes found. Half of that money was given to House Education Committee Chairman John Boehner, R-Ohio, and U.S. Rep. Howard P. McKeon, R-Calif. Taxpayers and vocational students need leaders who will protect them. Our elected federal and state officials must hold these schools more accountable for educating students and complying with federal loan regulations. That will happen if voters start holding elected officials accountable for how well vocational schools operate
Eleanor
Glendale,Arizona,
U.S.A.
You have to read the fine print before you sign!
#6Consumer Comment
Sat, September 03, 2005
I am a financial aid advisor at a technical college not too unlike the one you are describing. The one piece of advice I can give anyone who is looking at attending one of these schools is READ THE FINE PRINT BEFORE YOU SIGN! Do NOT allow the admissions rep push you into signing. If you feel uncomfortable about the situation - LEAVE! You are in no way obligated to that school until you sign the enrollment agreement. Usually schools like this give you one week free before you start getting charged. If you see something strange your first week, TELL SOMEONE! Don't wait until week 7 when you're paying 75% of your first academic year! Also, when you do your financial aid, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE listen to what the advisor is trying to tell you. When I meat with my students, I tell them EVERYTHING, including the statement "You are responsible for paying back any money that is disbursed, even if you do not complete your program or become dissatified with your school." This not only applies to technical and sop-called "career colleges" but it also applies to community colleges, universities, etc. If the Feds disburse the money and it pays for your tuition, you are responsible for paying whatever money was used to pay for your time there. That is not a school rule - that is a FEDERAL rule and it says so on the Financial Aid Entrance Interview you are required to fill out. Bottom line - our school is a good school. The people I work with really do want the students to succeed. Are all of our schools that way? Hell no! But I am lucky to work at a truly good school. I bend over backwards (and sometimes get myself in trouble) for trying to help out my students. You may not like what I have to say or want to hear what I have to say...but dammit, I'm going to tell you anyway. So, hopefully this will help some of you. An attorney will not be able to get your money back. Sorry.
Eleanor
Glendale,Arizona,
U.S.A.
You have to read the fine print before you sign!
#7Consumer Comment
Sat, September 03, 2005
I am a financial aid advisor at a technical college not too unlike the one you are describing. The one piece of advice I can give anyone who is looking at attending one of these schools is READ THE FINE PRINT BEFORE YOU SIGN! Do NOT allow the admissions rep push you into signing. If you feel uncomfortable about the situation - LEAVE! You are in no way obligated to that school until you sign the enrollment agreement. Usually schools like this give you one week free before you start getting charged. If you see something strange your first week, TELL SOMEONE! Don't wait until week 7 when you're paying 75% of your first academic year! Also, when you do your financial aid, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE listen to what the advisor is trying to tell you. When I meat with my students, I tell them EVERYTHING, including the statement "You are responsible for paying back any money that is disbursed, even if you do not complete your program or become dissatified with your school." This not only applies to technical and sop-called "career colleges" but it also applies to community colleges, universities, etc. If the Feds disburse the money and it pays for your tuition, you are responsible for paying whatever money was used to pay for your time there. That is not a school rule - that is a FEDERAL rule and it says so on the Financial Aid Entrance Interview you are required to fill out. Bottom line - our school is a good school. The people I work with really do want the students to succeed. Are all of our schools that way? Hell no! But I am lucky to work at a truly good school. I bend over backwards (and sometimes get myself in trouble) for trying to help out my students. You may not like what I have to say or want to hear what I have to say...but dammit, I'm going to tell you anyway. So, hopefully this will help some of you. An attorney will not be able to get your money back. Sorry.
Eleanor
Glendale,Arizona,
U.S.A.
You have to read the fine print before you sign!
#8Consumer Comment
Sat, September 03, 2005
I am a financial aid advisor at a technical college not too unlike the one you are describing. The one piece of advice I can give anyone who is looking at attending one of these schools is READ THE FINE PRINT BEFORE YOU SIGN! Do NOT allow the admissions rep push you into signing. If you feel uncomfortable about the situation - LEAVE! You are in no way obligated to that school until you sign the enrollment agreement. Usually schools like this give you one week free before you start getting charged. If you see something strange your first week, TELL SOMEONE! Don't wait until week 7 when you're paying 75% of your first academic year! Also, when you do your financial aid, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE listen to what the advisor is trying to tell you. When I meat with my students, I tell them EVERYTHING, including the statement "You are responsible for paying back any money that is disbursed, even if you do not complete your program or become dissatified with your school." This not only applies to technical and sop-called "career colleges" but it also applies to community colleges, universities, etc. If the Feds disburse the money and it pays for your tuition, you are responsible for paying whatever money was used to pay for your time there. That is not a school rule - that is a FEDERAL rule and it says so on the Financial Aid Entrance Interview you are required to fill out. Bottom line - our school is a good school. The people I work with really do want the students to succeed. Are all of our schools that way? Hell no! But I am lucky to work at a truly good school. I bend over backwards (and sometimes get myself in trouble) for trying to help out my students. You may not like what I have to say or want to hear what I have to say...but dammit, I'm going to tell you anyway. So, hopefully this will help some of you. An attorney will not be able to get your money back. Sorry.
A
Los Angeles,California,
U.S.A.
I agree with you - but check your facts
#9REBUTTAL Individual responds
Wed, August 03, 2005
Anthony, your facts are not correct. It is the Republicans who are currently working to give MORE access to Title IV funds to these types of "schools". Most politicians who are currently fighting these scams are Democrats...check out the testimonies at a March 2005 hearing on the matter at http://edworkforce.house.gov/hearings/109th/fc/60minutes030105/wl030105.htm The new bankruptcy bill isn't going to do anything to slow these "schools" down. These "schools" prey on the misinformed to enroll so they can get their money. Many of these students have no idea what the bankruptcy policies are -- and, further, they are fed so many lies, there is no reason for them to suspect that bankruptcy will ever be upon them. That's not to say that some very smart people haven't also been duped, but these schools make a point of providing as little accurate information as possible to enroll their students and subsequently scam them out of thousands of dollars. Now, 20-30 years ago were the Democrats supporting these schools...I don't know. I just know that current legislation isn't helping matters any. There are, in fact, motions being put forth in congress to eliminate certain standing rules that help regulate these types of schools and which would allow them MORE access to government money. This is not an attack on Republicans, Democrats or anyone elsethese are just the facts. Despite who's doing what in Washington DC, the fact of the matter is that there are a LOT of these types of schools scamming people right now. Do some additional searches on this site for ITT Tech, University of Phoenix, American Intercontinental University, etc. For-profit schools are harming many people. Everyone should take the time to do a simple google search on for-profit education to see what the current buzz is in Congress. Good luck to everyone who has been affected by these schools
Anthony
Newtown,Pennsylvania,
U.S.A.
Student Loan Mills
#10Consumer Suggestion
Fri, July 08, 2005
This "school" only exists to milk the federal student loan program. This is a direct result of expanding the student loan program to include trade schools instead of accredited colleges and universities as the program was originally intended. Keep voting for them Democrats, as they are the ones responsible for this mess as they turned this into a class issue during the Carter administration and expanded the program to include so-called trade schools. No surprise that such "trade schools" started springing up like mushrooms growing on a manure pile. It's not so easy to start a college or university. Hence the wasteful mess it is now. Reagan and the first Bush tried to fix this and were stopped cold in the then-Democratic controlled Congress. Clinton just ignored the problem as he did most long-term problems that didn't affect his daily polls. Bush II and the current Congress fixed it though. This is how: bankrupcy won't get rid of any of your student loans ever. This will be an albatross around your neck until you pay it off or until the day you die. Eventually word will get around to even the uninformed and "schools" like this will either really train candidates or go out of business. Bush II would have liked to simply cut off student loans to these rip-off trade schools but the Kennedy's, Schumer's, Biden's and Clinton's in the Senate minority would have fillibustered and prevented the issue from ever getting to a vote on the Senate floor where it would have passed easily. You can believe it or not, but this is the plain truth. This is yet another perfect example of why socialism does not work.
Anthony
Newtown,Pennsylvania,
U.S.A.
Student Loan Mills
#11Consumer Suggestion
Fri, July 08, 2005
This "school" only exists to milk the federal student loan program. This is a direct result of expanding the student loan program to include trade schools instead of accredited colleges and universities as the program was originally intended. Keep voting for them Democrats, as they are the ones responsible for this mess as they turned this into a class issue during the Carter administration and expanded the program to include so-called trade schools. No surprise that such "trade schools" started springing up like mushrooms growing on a manure pile. It's not so easy to start a college or university. Hence the wasteful mess it is now. Reagan and the first Bush tried to fix this and were stopped cold in the then-Democratic controlled Congress. Clinton just ignored the problem as he did most long-term problems that didn't affect his daily polls. Bush II and the current Congress fixed it though. This is how: bankrupcy won't get rid of any of your student loans ever. This will be an albatross around your neck until you pay it off or until the day you die. Eventually word will get around to even the uninformed and "schools" like this will either really train candidates or go out of business. Bush II would have liked to simply cut off student loans to these rip-off trade schools but the Kennedy's, Schumer's, Biden's and Clinton's in the Senate minority would have fillibustered and prevented the issue from ever getting to a vote on the Senate floor where it would have passed easily. You can believe it or not, but this is the plain truth. This is yet another perfect example of why socialism does not work.
Anthony
Newtown,Pennsylvania,
U.S.A.
Student Loan Mills
#12Consumer Suggestion
Fri, July 08, 2005
This "school" only exists to milk the federal student loan program. This is a direct result of expanding the student loan program to include trade schools instead of accredited colleges and universities as the program was originally intended. Keep voting for them Democrats, as they are the ones responsible for this mess as they turned this into a class issue during the Carter administration and expanded the program to include so-called trade schools. No surprise that such "trade schools" started springing up like mushrooms growing on a manure pile. It's not so easy to start a college or university. Hence the wasteful mess it is now. Reagan and the first Bush tried to fix this and were stopped cold in the then-Democratic controlled Congress. Clinton just ignored the problem as he did most long-term problems that didn't affect his daily polls. Bush II and the current Congress fixed it though. This is how: bankrupcy won't get rid of any of your student loans ever. This will be an albatross around your neck until you pay it off or until the day you die. Eventually word will get around to even the uninformed and "schools" like this will either really train candidates or go out of business. Bush II would have liked to simply cut off student loans to these rip-off trade schools but the Kennedy's, Schumer's, Biden's and Clinton's in the Senate minority would have fillibustered and prevented the issue from ever getting to a vote on the Senate floor where it would have passed easily. You can believe it or not, but this is the plain truth. This is yet another perfect example of why socialism does not work.
Christine
Perth Amboy,New Jersey,
U.S.A.
I've been to this school that is located in New Jersey
#13Consumer Suggestion
Thu, July 07, 2005
This was awhile ago but i went to this school after I had graduated high school.. I remember the teachers never coming in on time and there was construction in the school so sometimes classes were held in the lunch room. I wanted to go for the Ultrasound Tech but they made me take medical assistant first for some reason. I was there for about 2 weeks and I told my mom to get her money back... Once I told her about class in lunch room and teachers not showing up she made sure to get her money back.. This is one school I wouldnt recommend to anyone.
S
miami,Florida,
U.S.A.
when people found out about this site someone printed all the reports and made photo copies and handed them out all over the school
#14Author of original report
Sun, February 20, 2005
The part about filing for bankruptcy was from the story on CBS news, it wasnt me who needs to file. not yet anyway. I am sure when i get done this crappy school i will have to do that though. I found this site when i first had suspicions about this school and since then so many more people have added thier two cents which is why i thought i should put mine up there. Also for those who didnt notice, the school i am talking about is IN PENNSYLVANIA, i just registered my city and state wrong. i live in philadelphia, pa. not miami fl. The one thing that was funny at my school was that when people found out about this site someone printed all the reports and made photo copies and handed them out all over the school, to students, teachers and admissions, it was so great. The "big guns" were quite scared in their boots. but still nothing changed. I didnt know that the company has had so many presidents. i figured though bc at our school we have a "new" someone everyweek. and this new person is always suppose to be the diamond in the rough who is going to change it all, and make it all better. and nothing changes, they are all robots. Thank God i dont have school on Monday. One less day to have to suffer through at that place.!
Cindy
Riverview,Florida,
U.S.A.
You Go Girl
#15Consumer Comment
Fri, February 18, 2005
I found your report very informative and interesting. As the first person to have posted a report on this site I have found the resulting reports concise and accurate. In the beginning I was going to go to the media, however; I felt that I would first contact Mr. Larsen as well as a few other top officials at CEC and explain my problem but I never received a response from Mr. Larsen. I also wrote letters to CAAHEP who regulates health industry schools, the Association of Independent Schools which licenses these schools(They mailed 5 certified letters to this school before they received a reply) and the Consumer Protection Dept. Not one of these organizations helped me. The schools replied to my allegations with nothing but lies and the organizations sided with the schools even though I could prove all of my allegations and they could not. I also went to see an attorney and after having my case for a month decided he would'nt pursue it. I have since been contacted by a prior student who is filing a class action suit of which I just found out I am not listed as a plantiff. So I am still seeking an attorney for my case. The school has a new president now the fifth one in two years and I spoke to her about being allowed to finish my studies since I only have 2 months to go but I have to sign a notarized statement saying I will not sue the school and that I have to remove any negative reports off the internet. Also, since I have been unable to find work since leaving this school I am in default of my student loan (which I should not have to pay since the school kicked me out) and would be unable to pay for the remaining part of my education. You mentioned that your mother said to file for bankrupcy however student loans are not covered. Unfortunately you, me and many others are left in debt because of these institutions that are interested only at the profits that can be made from us poor souls. These schools must be stopped but I don't see it happening. The only thing we can do is to get the word out the best we can to let others know what a rip-off this school is. I know this school was sued in the past in Pennsylvania and according to the Judge this school is a sham. Unfortunately, this company is worth so much money that even a million dollar awards are not enough to stop them.
