After the first two months of Santander servicing the loan (again by auto-debit), I traded in the vehicle and the dealership paid it off. Let me repeat that: the vehicle was paid off. I have evidence of this in the form of a payoff notice from Santander themselves, the actual title to the vehicle (released to me by the state DMV), and also a copy of the cashed check that the dealer remitted to Santander, including the date when Santander cashed it, all routing numbers, and a letter from the business office of the dealership (a nationwide chain) stating that they have repeatedly contacted Santander to ensure that the payoff is properly credited to my account.
As of today, Santander continues to report that the account is not paid off, despite the fact that they cashed the dealership's payoff check, and despite the fact that the payoff amount provided by the dealer actually exceeds the payoff amount for the vehicle. Worse, Santander reports that the account is actually past due by 22 days, despite the fact that the last monthly payment was made on time, again by auto-debit, debited by Santander. They claim that the account is late stemming from 2007 - in essence claiming that the account has been past due for *3 years* - from a point before they actually even serviced the loan, and also despite the fact that they previously transacted two payments on the account without indicating the account was past due, and despite the fact that Citibank previously transacted 3 years worth of payments on the account, also without ever indicating that the account was past due (BECAUSE IT WASN'T).
Synopsis: I have a vehicle that has been paid off - There is incontrovertible evidence to this effect in the form of the payoff check actually cashed by Santander, the date it was cashed, amount, etc. In addition, the note has never been paid late - I also have evidence to this effect in the form of statements from Citibank AND Santander indicating that the account is not past due. Yet against this, Santander continues to indicate that the account is not paid off, and also has the temerity to add insult to injury by claiming the account is past due.
Santander is absolutely terrible to deal with. There is no way to directly contact anyone within their organization who can be of any real assistance in resolving these issues - the same answer is always given no matter how many times you call them to complain (we will send it to our accounts dept for review.) Even the business office for the dealer - who has paid out over ten thousand dollars to Santander that has not been applied to the payoff account - gets this same answer.
I've seen other complaints online about being told by Santander that they were past due after having their loans taken over by them, despite the fact that the original loan holders never considered or reported the loans late. This behavior seems obviously reprehensible at best, and on the surface certainly appears fraudulent in nature - claiming accounts were late when there are years of payment history without even a hint of late payments seems both irrational and absolutely manufactured in nature. I hope to God someone sues them and wins; they are the absolutely worst company I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. In my case, they are demonstrably in the wrong (not only am I not late, the vehicle is actually paid off), yet I cannot get ANY satisfaction from them with respect to resolving the issue.
tt
California,#2Author of original report
Wed, November 17, 2010
Nothing new to report. Santander is still reporting me past due.
tt
California,#3Author of original report
Wed, November 17, 2010
I finally got a phone number to get past the frontline people at Santander. Its the number that AutoNation has been using when they call, and I spoke to one of Santander's representatives this afternoon. They informed me that the matter of the uncredited payoff is being addressed, but that it could take 7-10 business days more to get the payoff credited to the account.
Let's add that up for a moment:
tt
California,#4Author of original report
Tue, November 16, 2010
Yesterday I noted that I had received a call from the AutoNation business office, and from the dealer, stating that Santander would be crediting the account payoff last night. I also called Santander myself, and one of their agents told me that the account would be 'fixed' and 'closed out' last night.
Dan
Murfreesboro,#5Consumer Comment
Mon, November 15, 2010
I am very concerned by what I am reading. My loan was also turned over from Citibank to this "Santander Consumer". I've been so nervous about it, I decided to simply pay the loan off in full. I called the automated service on 10/1 and was "advised" the payoff amount was $2107.16. I sent the check and it was credited to the account on 10/7. I then received a letter stating it was not enough, and today I am sending out another $30.00 per the letter and the current automated system. I have a feeling this company will try to drag this out forever. How in the world can places like this get away with this kind of garbage? A loan-shark would treat people better than how you have been treated.
tt
California,#6Author of original report
Mon, November 15, 2010
Update 11/15
skeptic
Bardstown,#7Consumer Comment
Mon, November 15, 2010
I'm really enjoying your updates and hope you carry on. Have you ever thought of sending copies of all your documentation to your State's Attorney General? I had a problem with a bank and only got positive results when I reported them to the consumer division of my State's Attorney General. Banks don't like you to do that.
tt
California,#8Author of original report
Mon, November 15, 2010
Just trying to attach the images I promissed...
ttupper
Irvine,#9Author of original report
Mon, November 15, 2010
Just another daily update. As of today, Santander considers me past due by 29 days on a loan that is paid in full. I've tried to work with them, the dealer has tried to work with them, and still nothing has changed. Despite acknowledging that they have received payment, Santander continues to indicate that the account is past due, and they continue to increase the number of days past due on a daily basis. Tomorrow is day 30, by their math.
ttupper
Irvine,#10Author of original report
Sat, November 13, 2010
Well yesterday I received notice in the afternoon from the AutoNation business office that Santander had at least verbally agreed that they have, indeed, been paid. They also stated that Santander had indicated they would try to credit the account "today or tomorrow", and that the payment date would be backdated to when Santander actually cashed the check. I also received a direct call from the dealer where I traded in the car essentially providing the same information to me.
ttupper
Irvine,#11Author of original report
Fri, November 12, 2010
Sorry I missed posting an update yesterday - consider this a two day update:
On 11/11 the AutoNation business office once again contacted Santander to get their status on what is going on with the more than $10, 000 they have paid them, and which has not been credited to my account. They received the same answer that Santander always provides: it's under review by our accounts dept.
I also called and spoke to an agent who at least was understanding and not rude - she informed me that there is absolutely no communication between their phone caller services (the people taking our calls) and their accounts dept. She indicated to me that they don't even have a phone number they can call in that department - they actually have to send every inquiry by email. She went further to indicate that supervisors don't even have a direct line they can call. The picture she painted is one where the accounts dept. is almost a citadel where the only thing that can go in is a request for review, and the only thing that comes out is the result of a review, and there is absolutely no explanation, communication, or collaboration. She stated "my hands are tied".
It is beyond me how a big company like this can even begin to believe that this sort of process is acceptable. It victimizes consumers. In my case, they are continuing to count me late for, and demanding payment for, a car note that is paid up to date and that is completely paid off. It is ridiculous. This sort of behavior, so far as I can see, really verges on criminal; if they don't get sued for this sort of stuff, it will absolutely shock and amaze me.
The Saga thus far:
- Santander debited a standard monthly payment (no past due amount) from me on 10/17 (the monthly due date)
- Santander cashed a payoff check from the dealer on 10/27 - payoff check exceeded the amount due on the vehicle
- AutoNation faxed proof of payoff to Santander (canceled check front and back plus federal transit numbers of thepayment) on October 29 AND November 8.
- State DMV released the vehicle title on November 1 - clean title (no lien holders)
- CitiBank (Lien Holder) sent me a notice of payoff and lien release dated November 2
- Santander insists I am (as of today) past due by 25 days
As I have said many times, it is impossible for me to be past due on a loan that I paid up to date at the last statement due date, and that the a national dealer chain paid off. Even if Santander somehow misplaced or miss-applied the payoff amount (and it is evident that they did), I would still not be past due. As it stands, I have both the title and payoff notice for a vehicle that this absolutely scurrilous company insists I owe and am past due on. The whole thing is beyond the pale absurd.
I'll continue to keep everyone posted.
ttupper
Irvine,#12Author of original report
Fri, November 12, 2010
Sorry I missed posting an update yesterday - consider this a two day update:
On 11/11 the AutoNation business office once again contacted Santander to get their status on what is going on with the more than $10, 000 they have paid them, and which has not been credited to my account. They received the same answer that Santander always provides: it's under review by our accounts dept.
I also called and spoke to an agent who at least was understanding and not rude - she informed me that there is absolutely no communication between their phone caller services (the people taking our calls) and their accounts dept. She indicated to me that they don't even have a phone number they can call in that department - they actually have to send every inquiry by email. She went further to indicate that supervisors don't even have a direct line they can call. The picture she painted is one where the accounts dept. is almost a citadel where the only thing that can go in is a request for review, and the only thing that comes out is the result of a review, and there is absolutely no explanation, communication, or collaboration. She stated "my hands are tied".
It is beyond me how a big company like this can even begin to believe that this sort of process is acceptable. It victimizes consumers. In my case, they are continuing to count me late for, and demanding payment for, a car note that is paid up to date and that is completely paid off. It is ridiculous. This sort of behavior, so far as I can see, really verges on criminal; if they don't get sued for this sort of stuff, it will absolutely shock and amaze me.
The Saga thus far:
- Santander debited a standard monthly payment (no past due amount) from me on 10/17 (the monthly due date)
- Santander cashed a payoff check from the dealer on 10/27 - payoff check exceeded the amount due on the vehicle
- AutoNation faxed proof of payoff to Santander (canceled check front and back plus federal transit numbers of the payment) on October 29 AND November 8.
- State DMV released the vehicle title on November 1 - clean title (no lien holders)
- CitiBank (Lien Holder) sent me a notice of payoff and lien release dated November 2
- Santander insists I am (as of today) past due by 25 days
As I have said many times, it is impossible for me to be past due on a loan that I paid up to date at the last statement due date, and that the a national dealer chain paid off. Even if Santander somehow misplaced or miss-applied the payoff amount (and it is evident that they did), I would still not be past due. As it stands, I have both the title and payoff notice for a vehicle that this absolutely scurrilous company insists I owe and am past due on. The whole thing is beyond the pale absurd.
I'll continue to keep everyone posted.
ttupper
Irvine,#13Author of original report
Wed, November 10, 2010
UPDATE: 11/10/2010
Just wanted to continue to update this. I received a call this morning from the business unit of the dealership I traded my vehicle in to (an AutoNation dealer - a nationwide chain that is highly respected). They (the AutoNation business unit) contact Santander every morning to get the status of the situation, and were told this morning the same thing Santander tells them every morning: nothing has changed and it will be at least friday before anything is done.
Both the dealership and I have been contacting Santander, usually daily, about the issue. There have been dozens of phone contacts at this point, as well as faxed proof, etc. Still no action from Santander to resolve the issue.
The story thus far:
- Santander debited a standard monthly payment from me on 10/17
- Santander cashed the payoff check from the dealer on 10/27
- AutoNation faxed proof of payoff to Santander (canceled check front and back plus federal transit numbers of the payment) on October 29 AND November 8.
- State DMV released the title on November 1
- CitiBank (Lien Holder) sent me a notice of payoff and lien release dated November 2
ttupper
Irvine,#14Author of original report
Wed, November 10, 2010
Another call to Santander today, another (different) explanation for why they insist I am past due on a vehicle that is paid off. First, they continue to claim that they haven't been paid by the dealer, though they finally DO acknowledge receipt of the fax showing them the cashed check (front and back) - so I guess that's progress (of a sort). Second, they now acknowledge that they can't figure out why their system says I am past due. They acknowledge that last month I was not past due, and they acknowledge that last month I made my monthly payment on time - which should have been obvious because it is auto-debited and I have ample proof it was made. Yet, somehow in the space of a month, and having made the standard payment as required, I am now listed as both as past due AND as having made the monthly payment on time... on a note that is paid off.
The first time I called them about this state of affairs the explanation was that I was past due from sometime in 2007, which is clearly ridiculous (and also easily disproved, since I have my monthly statements from Citi and Santander). Then they insisted that the monthly payment I made was returned NSF. Then they 'recognized' that it actually was not returned NSF, and then they decided that the issue needed to be investigated by their mysterious accounts dept. So now I have two open investigations, one regarding why they think I owe them any money at all, and the other regarding why they think I am past due. Meanwhile, their system continues to add up the days they think I am past due on this paid off note, and its getting close to 30. If they report this to the CRB's and spoil my pristine payment history, i'm not sure what i'll do. Certainly it would be justifiable cause for me to pursue further action. The truth, though, is that I just want them to fix the mess, and then we can all go home and hang with our families and relax.
It's hard to imagine how a big company like this can be so incredibly messed up internally, but its like this for them all over the world. In the UK they were the number one most complained about bank. We'll see what happens.
ttupper
Irvine,#15Author of original report
Tue, November 09, 2010
It gets better: after posting this report today I checked the mail and I received a letter from CitiBank stating that the loan is paid in full, AND I also received a statement from Santander stating that I am past due and owe them almost a thousand dollars. How crazy is that: I get both on the same day. Even more crazy is the fact that I pulled out my last statement from Santander, which specifically states that the past due balance is ZERO, and I compared it with THIS month's statement (received today). THIS statement BOTH indicates that the amount due on the last statement was paid AND indicates that there is a past due amount. Amazingly, I seem to be past due, according to them, by the exact amount that I paid them. So I have one statement from a month ago stating that I was not past due, and I have another statement fir this month indicating that I made the payment required last month, and that I am somehow now behind by one month. And of course, on a vehicle that is paid off.