- Report: #21573
Complaint Review: Toyota Motor Sales Inc. - Torrance California
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Toyota Motor Sales Inc.
19001 S. Western Ave. Torrance, 90509 California, U.S.A.
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Toyota Motor Sales, Inc. False Promises! Quality, Reliability, Safety? Is "Normal for this Vehicle" Acceptable? Torrance California
In the interest of encouraging Toyota (and other automakers) to produce the high quality, reliable, and safe vehicles that it promises to deliver, I'd like to discuss the problems related to my own vehicle and my frustrations with ownership of it.
On January 1, 1999, my husband and I purchased a new 1999 Sienna CE from a local dealership. We were excited about owning a Toyota because of its well-known reputation for quality and reliability. We had family who owned Toyotas and loved them.
We owned a Honda at the time (and still do), and we had previously owned Chrysler, GM, and Ford vehicles as well. We were convinced that our Toyota would rank the best of the bunch. Why wouldn't it? That's what we were promised by the manufacturer after all.
Within the first year and a half, the power steering began to creak and groan. We were told that we would need a new rack and pinion, but in the end, only the inner tie rods were replaced. The van began to pull to the left. The rear window washer leaked, and the speedometer stopped working intermittently.
The sliding door latches stuck so tightly that an adult could not open the van door from the outside or the inside. The dealership said this was caused by the spillage of sticky drinks. Funny, it was the latch that was problem and when they finally replaced them, the problem went away.
When the pulling to one side continued, the Dunlop tires were replaced with Michelin tires. We took off for a summer vacation with just 17,500 miles on the van and we experienced severe vibrations which prevented us from continuing on. After much pleading, the dealership agreed to cover the towing expenses. Turns out the rear brake drums were warped. They were replaced.
From that point on, there continued to be a shimmy of the front end at speeds of 45-50 MPH. I was told that many of my complaints were "cosmetic" in nature. I disagreed and requested that a Toyota district representative be present to hear my complaints. At just 23,000 miles, I noted the following problems:
1) pulling to the left
2) excessive het in the front wheel wells, esp. the left one
3) white exhaust smoke on cold start up
4) complete ABS/brake failure with grinding in light, powdery snow....I skidded to safety in very low speed conditions
5) sooty deposits around the valve cover
6) stalling of the engine on several occasions
7) corrosion of the battery terminal area
8) periodic strong gasoline smells beneath my vehicle
9) loud clunking noise upon backing up and brake use
10) revving at idle with increased white smoke production
11) return of noise in the power steering intermittently
12) continued shimmy at highway speeds
13) lurching forward of the vehicle at idle unless brake depressed firmly
14) groaning of the transmission
Just prior to this meeting with the district sales representative, I had done some internet research and found MORE than I had bargained for. Yes, there were plenty of owners who had the pulling/steering/alignment problem which is what I was researching. BUT, there were lots and lots of owners who had engine failure due to SLUDGE. There were also lots of 2000 Sienna owners who had early transmission troubles. Lo and behold, there were also many owners with sticking sliding door latches!
When I met with the district sales manager and my service manager, I mentioned the information that I had found about the sludge problem on the internet. I voiced my concerns. Without question, they said this problem was owner neglect. They had never seen a case that wasn't.
Just to be on the safe side, I requested that the valve cover be removed and examined in my presence. They took off the cover and then called me back. There was no evidence of sludge at that time. I chose to do an oil sample analysis through an independent company anyway for trending purposes.
As for my other problems, many were noted to be "characteristic of the vehicle" or "normal for this vehicle." The sticking locks were blamed on ME, though, and I did not like it!
When I found all the internet information, I was shocked and dismayed. I thought to myself, this could NOT be happening. That is when I decided to do a survey to find others; it was not difficult. As soon as I posted a survey (January, 2001) with about 10 questions, I began to get responses almost immediately.
I posted it on Edmund's Town Hall; however, just ten days later, I was BANNED permanently from that site. I was told that I was "disruptive" and "soliciting for a class action lawsuit." The banning host said that the readers were just "tired of reading my posts." Nice kick in the teeth for someone who was trying to document owner complaints....remember, Edmund's Town Hall cites that it is an UNBIASED forum for all vehicle owners. That's another whole story which will be told!
I also posted on the Cartrackers Forums site. I opened a "Toyota" folder there. I posted wherever I thought other auto owners might read. We won't go into the "spin doctor" responses I received as that is yet another issue! Suffice it to say, the Toyota owners were VERY appreciative of the resources I listed in my flier/survey. I began to save all correspondence with Toyota owners. My consumer efforts are yet another story to be discussed later.
Now, back to my own van's problems. Met with Toyota DENIAL of any widespread problems, I continued to research. I also documented new problems, such as the frequent cycling of the ABS. Creaking brake pedal with travel almost to the floor. The clunking of the brakes when backing increased. The paint continued to easily flake off.
The steering pull to the left was especially strong with long wide turns and on acceleration. There was hesitation in the transmission shifting. Whining in the power steering was intermittent, especially on cold mornings.
Once again, sooty deposits formed around the valve cover and the engine felt extremely hot on occasions. The revving at idle continued with plumes of exhaust smoke noted. The smoking continued to increase on cold start up and it began to look dirtier and gray.
I had the van in for the 30,000 mile service visit with the usual documentation. I was told that the smoke was "normal." Many of the other problems were "normal" or "characteristic," too. Just as I was about to leave the dealership, I noticed that the tires had NOT been rotated as part of the service. The excuse? They "forgot." At this visit, I once again obtained an oil sample for analysis.
Now to the present. While the pulling problem is still a big concern, I now have to worry about FUEL-CONTAMINATED ENGINE OIL! A sample at an interval of 6,600 miles revealed "EXCESSIVE FUEL IN THE OIL" and "OIL TOO THIN." There were also lead wear metals present in the oil. In addition, there was a high silicon level. The repeat analyses confirm that fuel is STILL in the oil.
Twice now, I have discussed this with the Toyota dealership. Computer results show no fuel problem, no misfiring, and no fault codes, according to Toyota. Nonetheless, I have excessive FUEL in my oil on analysis. The oil is dark brown and smells like gasoline even at oil change intervals BELOW 3,000 miles.
While I have NO sludge (black, gel) I do have varnish (dark brown/rusty color) in the oil pan, in the oil pickup screen area, and the front valve cover. There was a film of oil evident in the tubing into the air filtration box/manifold. Toyota's response? Everything is "normal." It remains unconvinced I have any fuel-related problem at all.
With the last oil change, I monitored my oil closely. I noted that at just 500 miles on the oil, it changed from a clear, golden yellow to a thin, brown color. Further inspection revealed at 1,000 miles, the oil on my dipstick would quickly drain into a paper towel. At times, there were two liquid areas on my dipstick which were two different densities. Fuel mixing with oil?
The last oil change was done at 1,680 miles. I await the analysis. Something is amiss and I cannot get Toyota to acknowledge or try to identify the source of this problem. It is almost like it wants to look the other way. I simply want the answers, that's all. Is this asking too much?
Am I disppointed in the quality? Yes, I am. I wanted to keep this van for 12 years or more. I really like the van and it suits my needs in terms of space, comfort, etc. I don't want another vehicle. BUT, I do want a safe, reliable one. Is this a matter of being UNHAPPY? Absolutely not. It is a matter of expectations and unfulfilled promises.
The question becomes, do I have an isolated LEMON (legal or otherwise) of sorts, OR do I have a van which has characteristics which are unacceptable? lacking in quality? potentially unsafe? Am I getting what the federal warranty laws guarantee me...a safe, reliable vehicle which holds it resale value over time?
Are the "normal" characteristics of this vehicle within the specifications of high quality that Toyota wishes to be known for? Are the owners being shortchanged?
Well, the answers to these questions will come from the owner data. Hopefully, others will share their experiences in this forum for comparision purposes.
Charlene
Vienna, Virginia
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Toyota Dealers and Products
On January 1, 1999, my husband and I purchased a new 1999 Sienna CE from a local dealership. We were excited about owning a Toyota because of its well-known reputation for quality and reliability. We had family who owned Toyotas and loved them.
We owned a Honda at the time (and still do), and we had previously owned Chrysler, GM, and Ford vehicles as well. We were convinced that our Toyota would rank the best of the bunch. Why wouldn't it? That's what we were promised by the manufacturer after all.
Within the first year and a half, the power steering began to creak and groan. We were told that we would need a new rack and pinion, but in the end, only the inner tie rods were replaced. The van began to pull to the left. The rear window washer leaked, and the speedometer stopped working intermittently.
The sliding door latches stuck so tightly that an adult could not open the van door from the outside or the inside. The dealership said this was caused by the spillage of sticky drinks. Funny, it was the latch that was problem and when they finally replaced them, the problem went away.
When the pulling to one side continued, the Dunlop tires were replaced with Michelin tires. We took off for a summer vacation with just 17,500 miles on the van and we experienced severe vibrations which prevented us from continuing on. After much pleading, the dealership agreed to cover the towing expenses. Turns out the rear brake drums were warped. They were replaced.
From that point on, there continued to be a shimmy of the front end at speeds of 45-50 MPH. I was told that many of my complaints were "cosmetic" in nature. I disagreed and requested that a Toyota district representative be present to hear my complaints. At just 23,000 miles, I noted the following problems:
1) pulling to the left
2) excessive het in the front wheel wells, esp. the left one
3) white exhaust smoke on cold start up
4) complete ABS/brake failure with grinding in light, powdery snow....I skidded to safety in very low speed conditions
5) sooty deposits around the valve cover
6) stalling of the engine on several occasions
7) corrosion of the battery terminal area
8) periodic strong gasoline smells beneath my vehicle
9) loud clunking noise upon backing up and brake use
10) revving at idle with increased white smoke production
11) return of noise in the power steering intermittently
12) continued shimmy at highway speeds
13) lurching forward of the vehicle at idle unless brake depressed firmly
14) groaning of the transmission
Just prior to this meeting with the district sales representative, I had done some internet research and found MORE than I had bargained for. Yes, there were plenty of owners who had the pulling/steering/alignment problem which is what I was researching. BUT, there were lots and lots of owners who had engine failure due to SLUDGE. There were also lots of 2000 Sienna owners who had early transmission troubles. Lo and behold, there were also many owners with sticking sliding door latches!
When I met with the district sales manager and my service manager, I mentioned the information that I had found about the sludge problem on the internet. I voiced my concerns. Without question, they said this problem was owner neglect. They had never seen a case that wasn't.
Just to be on the safe side, I requested that the valve cover be removed and examined in my presence. They took off the cover and then called me back. There was no evidence of sludge at that time. I chose to do an oil sample analysis through an independent company anyway for trending purposes.
As for my other problems, many were noted to be "characteristic of the vehicle" or "normal for this vehicle." The sticking locks were blamed on ME, though, and I did not like it!
When I found all the internet information, I was shocked and dismayed. I thought to myself, this could NOT be happening. That is when I decided to do a survey to find others; it was not difficult. As soon as I posted a survey (January, 2001) with about 10 questions, I began to get responses almost immediately.
I posted it on Edmund's Town Hall; however, just ten days later, I was BANNED permanently from that site. I was told that I was "disruptive" and "soliciting for a class action lawsuit." The banning host said that the readers were just "tired of reading my posts." Nice kick in the teeth for someone who was trying to document owner complaints....remember, Edmund's Town Hall cites that it is an UNBIASED forum for all vehicle owners. That's another whole story which will be told!
I also posted on the Cartrackers Forums site. I opened a "Toyota" folder there. I posted wherever I thought other auto owners might read. We won't go into the "spin doctor" responses I received as that is yet another issue! Suffice it to say, the Toyota owners were VERY appreciative of the resources I listed in my flier/survey. I began to save all correspondence with Toyota owners. My consumer efforts are yet another story to be discussed later.
Now, back to my own van's problems. Met with Toyota DENIAL of any widespread problems, I continued to research. I also documented new problems, such as the frequent cycling of the ABS. Creaking brake pedal with travel almost to the floor. The clunking of the brakes when backing increased. The paint continued to easily flake off.
The steering pull to the left was especially strong with long wide turns and on acceleration. There was hesitation in the transmission shifting. Whining in the power steering was intermittent, especially on cold mornings.
Once again, sooty deposits formed around the valve cover and the engine felt extremely hot on occasions. The revving at idle continued with plumes of exhaust smoke noted. The smoking continued to increase on cold start up and it began to look dirtier and gray.
I had the van in for the 30,000 mile service visit with the usual documentation. I was told that the smoke was "normal." Many of the other problems were "normal" or "characteristic," too. Just as I was about to leave the dealership, I noticed that the tires had NOT been rotated as part of the service. The excuse? They "forgot." At this visit, I once again obtained an oil sample for analysis.
Now to the present. While the pulling problem is still a big concern, I now have to worry about FUEL-CONTAMINATED ENGINE OIL! A sample at an interval of 6,600 miles revealed "EXCESSIVE FUEL IN THE OIL" and "OIL TOO THIN." There were also lead wear metals present in the oil. In addition, there was a high silicon level. The repeat analyses confirm that fuel is STILL in the oil.
Twice now, I have discussed this with the Toyota dealership. Computer results show no fuel problem, no misfiring, and no fault codes, according to Toyota. Nonetheless, I have excessive FUEL in my oil on analysis. The oil is dark brown and smells like gasoline even at oil change intervals BELOW 3,000 miles.
While I have NO sludge (black, gel) I do have varnish (dark brown/rusty color) in the oil pan, in the oil pickup screen area, and the front valve cover. There was a film of oil evident in the tubing into the air filtration box/manifold. Toyota's response? Everything is "normal." It remains unconvinced I have any fuel-related problem at all.
With the last oil change, I monitored my oil closely. I noted that at just 500 miles on the oil, it changed from a clear, golden yellow to a thin, brown color. Further inspection revealed at 1,000 miles, the oil on my dipstick would quickly drain into a paper towel. At times, there were two liquid areas on my dipstick which were two different densities. Fuel mixing with oil?
The last oil change was done at 1,680 miles. I await the analysis. Something is amiss and I cannot get Toyota to acknowledge or try to identify the source of this problem. It is almost like it wants to look the other way. I simply want the answers, that's all. Is this asking too much?
Am I disppointed in the quality? Yes, I am. I wanted to keep this van for 12 years or more. I really like the van and it suits my needs in terms of space, comfort, etc. I don't want another vehicle. BUT, I do want a safe, reliable one. Is this a matter of being UNHAPPY? Absolutely not. It is a matter of expectations and unfulfilled promises.
The question becomes, do I have an isolated LEMON (legal or otherwise) of sorts, OR do I have a van which has characteristics which are unacceptable? lacking in quality? potentially unsafe? Am I getting what the federal warranty laws guarantee me...a safe, reliable vehicle which holds it resale value over time?
Are the "normal" characteristics of this vehicle within the specifications of high quality that Toyota wishes to be known for? Are the owners being shortchanged?
Well, the answers to these questions will come from the owner data. Hopefully, others will share their experiences in this forum for comparision purposes.
Charlene
Vienna, Virginia
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Toyota Dealers and Products
