- Report: #424006
Complaint Review: Wells Fargo Bank NA - San Francisco California
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Wells Fargo Bank NA
420 Montgomery Street San Francisco, 94104 California, U.S.A.
Phone:
800-869-3557
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Wells Fargo Bank, NA New tactics for enhancing revenue from overdraft fees San Francisco California
This past week my expenses exceeded my income and my account balance went negative. It's not because I'm living beyond my means - buying all sorts of stupid nonsense. My spending is not out of control. It's because my means have dropped significantly below the cost of living. This time it was the gas bill ($238.61) and the phone bill ($77.95) - both auto-pay. If I could have avoided it, I would have.
I know it's my fault. It's my job to make enough money to pay the bills. I won't go into all the methods that Wells Fargo Bank uses to steer people into overdrafts. And, I know that the official policy of Wells Fargo Bank is to aggressively take advantage of such situations and make as much money as possible from overdraft fees. And, it's common knowledge that our government (both state and federal) allows banks to do this with impunity. In fact, the government facilitates this activity. But, this report isn't about any of that. I'm writing this report to warn people about new tactics that Wells Fargo Bank used in my recent situation in an attempt to prolong the overdraft feeding frenzy.
Three deposits were made to my account since it went negative. The first one was two days ago, the second was yesterday. But, neither of these brought the balance above zero. Combined, they exceeded the original overdrafts (gas and phone bills) with some margin to spare. But, they didn't cover the overdraft fees ($455) for every little subsequent transaction (several small postage purchases). The third deposit was today and it did restore the account. All three deposits were from my merchant bank account (credit card processing). Basically, these were from credit card sales that I had earlier in the week. There have been six such deposits this month - all from the same source. Over the many years that I have operated my business, there have been several thousand such deposits.
Here's where the new scam starts:
1. I received a call from a Wells Fargo Bank representative this morning. She wanted to let me know that there was an unusual deposit in my account. She explained that the bank had flagged it as suspicious and suspected that it was some kind of fraudulent activity. They were going to deny it if I hadn't answered the phone and verified the source. Lucky me! If I hadn't answered the phone then this overdraft feeding frenzy would have continued through the weekend and well into the next week as I tried to get the merchant bank to re-submit the deposit!
Who ever heard of fraudulent deposit transactions? This is a new one on me! And, it's pretty difficult for me to believe that nobody noticed most of the other deposits in my account were from the exact same source.
2. The second thing that she tells me is that my debit cards have been cancelled. I didn't report them lost or stolen. There were no suspicious or fraudulent purchases. So I asked her why they did this. She explained that it was done because my account was overdrawn. They have never done this on any previous overdraft situations so I asked her why they did it this time. Why didn't they just deny payment? She claimed that there is a "law" which prohibits them from denying payment for a debit card transaction - even when the account is empty. The only way for them to stop transactions is to cancel the cards. Well, this is complete nonsense and I told her so. There is no such law. The whole system is set up to allow for charges to be denied. That's why debit card transactions are labeled "pending" in the account for the first two days. The money doesn't actually transfer until the merchant does a batch settlement and the charges are processed through the system.
She went on to tell me that I could open up a different kind of checking account with a debit card that allowed them to deny payment if the account was empty. Somehow, this "law" was able to tell the difference between these two types of accounts. What she described sounded a lot like a "pre-paid credit card", which has a considerable amount of fees and overhead. That's when I realized that she was going to try and sell me yet another predatory financial product so I told her that I wasn't interested.
It puzzled me for quite some time why Wells Fargo Bank would cancel my cards and use such a stupid lame excuse. Then it occurred to me. The overdraft fee is posted long before the actual money is transferred. "Pending" transactions can't be voided or modified after the card is cancelled. If they didn't cancel the card, then I could have called up vendors and asked them to void the transactions and accept a different card or form of payment. Their precious overdraft fees would have vaporized into nothing.
3. Now, I've had my debit cards canceled before. It's a major hassle. I use them with most of my suppliers and service providers. I can't order supplies and goods that I need to fill orders. Several on-line services receive payment through these cards. My business comes to a screeching halt and I can't make money until I receive the new cards. My bank account shrinks and, you guessed it, becomes overdrawn again. So, getting these cards sent out quickly is paramount to me. Therefore, I insist that she verify the address. She reads back an address that I haven't used in nearly ten years! I know that they have my current address because I receive my bank statements and my payments are accepted (phone orders require address and zip code verification). In fact, replacement cards have been sent to the new address in previous card cancellation episodes. So, it's pretty difficult to imagine why Wells Fargo was all primed to send my new cards to a bogus address. Beyond doubt, their arrival would have been hopelessly delayed.
Well, at this point I wasn't sure what to think. I suspected that she was not a real Wells Fargo Agent so I challenged her authority. She provided confidential information verifying to my satisfaction that she was the genuine article. Then she reads the correct address, verifying that she knew where to send the cards all along. It's hard for me to believe that this wasn't yet another deliberate tactic.
You would think that banks would be treading pretty lightly these days. Apparently not so with Wells Fargo Bank. The malevolent greed which created the banking crisis is still alive and well creating more scams like the ones I have described here. Beware of Wells Fargo Bank, they are constantly dreaming up new and clever tricks to use against their customers.
Edward
Eagle, Idaho
U.S.A.
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Wells Fargo Bank
I know it's my fault. It's my job to make enough money to pay the bills. I won't go into all the methods that Wells Fargo Bank uses to steer people into overdrafts. And, I know that the official policy of Wells Fargo Bank is to aggressively take advantage of such situations and make as much money as possible from overdraft fees. And, it's common knowledge that our government (both state and federal) allows banks to do this with impunity. In fact, the government facilitates this activity. But, this report isn't about any of that. I'm writing this report to warn people about new tactics that Wells Fargo Bank used in my recent situation in an attempt to prolong the overdraft feeding frenzy.
Three deposits were made to my account since it went negative. The first one was two days ago, the second was yesterday. But, neither of these brought the balance above zero. Combined, they exceeded the original overdrafts (gas and phone bills) with some margin to spare. But, they didn't cover the overdraft fees ($455) for every little subsequent transaction (several small postage purchases). The third deposit was today and it did restore the account. All three deposits were from my merchant bank account (credit card processing). Basically, these were from credit card sales that I had earlier in the week. There have been six such deposits this month - all from the same source. Over the many years that I have operated my business, there have been several thousand such deposits.
Here's where the new scam starts:
1. I received a call from a Wells Fargo Bank representative this morning. She wanted to let me know that there was an unusual deposit in my account. She explained that the bank had flagged it as suspicious and suspected that it was some kind of fraudulent activity. They were going to deny it if I hadn't answered the phone and verified the source. Lucky me! If I hadn't answered the phone then this overdraft feeding frenzy would have continued through the weekend and well into the next week as I tried to get the merchant bank to re-submit the deposit!
Who ever heard of fraudulent deposit transactions? This is a new one on me! And, it's pretty difficult for me to believe that nobody noticed most of the other deposits in my account were from the exact same source.
2. The second thing that she tells me is that my debit cards have been cancelled. I didn't report them lost or stolen. There were no suspicious or fraudulent purchases. So I asked her why they did this. She explained that it was done because my account was overdrawn. They have never done this on any previous overdraft situations so I asked her why they did it this time. Why didn't they just deny payment? She claimed that there is a "law" which prohibits them from denying payment for a debit card transaction - even when the account is empty. The only way for them to stop transactions is to cancel the cards. Well, this is complete nonsense and I told her so. There is no such law. The whole system is set up to allow for charges to be denied. That's why debit card transactions are labeled "pending" in the account for the first two days. The money doesn't actually transfer until the merchant does a batch settlement and the charges are processed through the system.
She went on to tell me that I could open up a different kind of checking account with a debit card that allowed them to deny payment if the account was empty. Somehow, this "law" was able to tell the difference between these two types of accounts. What she described sounded a lot like a "pre-paid credit card", which has a considerable amount of fees and overhead. That's when I realized that she was going to try and sell me yet another predatory financial product so I told her that I wasn't interested.
It puzzled me for quite some time why Wells Fargo Bank would cancel my cards and use such a stupid lame excuse. Then it occurred to me. The overdraft fee is posted long before the actual money is transferred. "Pending" transactions can't be voided or modified after the card is cancelled. If they didn't cancel the card, then I could have called up vendors and asked them to void the transactions and accept a different card or form of payment. Their precious overdraft fees would have vaporized into nothing.
3. Now, I've had my debit cards canceled before. It's a major hassle. I use them with most of my suppliers and service providers. I can't order supplies and goods that I need to fill orders. Several on-line services receive payment through these cards. My business comes to a screeching halt and I can't make money until I receive the new cards. My bank account shrinks and, you guessed it, becomes overdrawn again. So, getting these cards sent out quickly is paramount to me. Therefore, I insist that she verify the address. She reads back an address that I haven't used in nearly ten years! I know that they have my current address because I receive my bank statements and my payments are accepted (phone orders require address and zip code verification). In fact, replacement cards have been sent to the new address in previous card cancellation episodes. So, it's pretty difficult to imagine why Wells Fargo was all primed to send my new cards to a bogus address. Beyond doubt, their arrival would have been hopelessly delayed.
Well, at this point I wasn't sure what to think. I suspected that she was not a real Wells Fargo Agent so I challenged her authority. She provided confidential information verifying to my satisfaction that she was the genuine article. Then she reads the correct address, verifying that she knew where to send the cards all along. It's hard for me to believe that this wasn't yet another deliberate tactic.
You would think that banks would be treading pretty lightly these days. Apparently not so with Wells Fargo Bank. The malevolent greed which created the banking crisis is still alive and well creating more scams like the ones I have described here. Beware of Wells Fargo Bank, they are constantly dreaming up new and clever tricks to use against their customers.
Edward
Eagle, Idaho
U.S.A.
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Wells Fargo Bank
4 Updates & Rebuttals
Shannon
Tucson,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Oh Yeah wells fargo is a total ripoff and is proven in my case
#2Consumer Comment
Tue, March 03, 2009
I just filed a ripoff report for this Wellsfrago bank. Yeah! A total ripoff, in one day after they took my money from my direct deposit, charged my account 8 times $35.00, that was 21st of one month. They let the little chargess go thru 8 times so they can charge overdraft fees. Myself and my wife both has a debit cards. It was my fault that I did not ask my wife if there is still money on the account. All these charges came from my card. But if this bank act in good faith, it should not let the charges go thru after 3 times of activity while the account is already empty. And they should not also pay the automatic payment knowing account is empty. We have to go back to the branch 3 times to just close the account!!!And we have to pay them almost $300.00 more to close it after it got paid on the same week.
Edward
Eagle,Idaho,
U.S.A.
update
#3Author of original report
Sun, March 01, 2009
Perhaps "Mr. Common Sense" didn't read my report carefully enough. Specifically, it appears as if he completely overlooked the following: "All three deposits were from my merchant bank account (credit card processing). Basically, these were from credit card sales that I had earlier in the week. There have been six such deposits this month - all from the same source. Over the many years that I have operated my business, there have been several thousand such deposits." In this particular case, the deposits were *NOT* checks. They were *NOT* initiated by me. They came through the national banking system as direct deposit (EFT) transactions. Such transactions are very heavily regulated and protected against fraud. These particular transactions were from a known and trusted merchant banking services provider - one that has made several thousand such deposits to my account (three of which happened in the same week). It is inconceivable to me that anybody in the Wells Fargo Bank, NA Fraud Department could have missed these facts. Apparently "Mr. Common Sense" did. And he seems to think that it's right and proper that Wells Fargo Bank, NA did too. Hmmm... To illustrate the absurd, let's entertain the thought for a moment. In order for the deposit in question to have been fraudulent, it would have been necessary for someone to hack into the banking system and create a bogus transaction. Such a transaction would require the creation of bogus authentication and verification in a heavily guarded and protected system. This sort of thing just doesn't happen every day. If it were so easy, (like depositing a phony check) then lots of people would be doing it all the time and our banking system would collapse. Besides, it seems pretty unlikely that someone would go to all that trouble for such a small amount of money. Contrary to what "Mr. Common Sense" would have us believe, the proffering of fraudulent checks ("paper hanging") is certainly not among "the fastest growing areas of fraud today." In fact, this particular practice is just about as old as the paper that checks are printed on. Identity theft, in all its forms and methods, especially as it relates to the internet, overshadows it like Mt. Everest overshadows a grain of sand. If anybody has been living under a rock, it would seem to be "Mr. Common Sense". Based on the overwhelming growth of electronic transactions, I would venture a guess that check fraud is down significantly from what it was ten, or even twenty years ago. "Mr. Common Sense" would also lead us to believe that Wells Fargo Bank, NA likely cancelled my debit cards because I must "habitually overdraw" my accounts. If this were the case, and I had proved to be too irresponsible to own debit cards, then why did they issue replacements before even calling me? The cards weren't cancelled because they were reported lost or stolen. They were not involved in or connected with any transactions that were suspected fraudulent. And, it's apparent that they still trust me with debit cards because they sent me two brand new ones right away. So, what possible legitimate excuse is left? The net result is that I'm being required to update about 30 accounts with new financial information (subscriptions, services, merchant and other automatic transactions). This time it won't be done with Wells Fargo Bank, NA debit cards and account numbers. "Mr. Common Sense" also neglects to address the bold faced lie that the Wells Fargo Bank, NA representative attempted to use as an excuse why debit card transactions cannot be denied and must be paid, even for an account that is overdrawn. She told me that it was the LAW! Well, here's what Wells Fargo Bank, NA was willing to put in writing: "if you perform an ATM or Check Card transaction without sufficient funds in your account to cover the transaction, we may: * Cover the transaction if you have overdraft protection * Pay the transaction and create an overdraft in your account * Decline the transaction." That's their "official" personal written response to my inquiry about this so called "law" that obligates them to "pay the transaction and create an overdraft". The real truth: they could decline the transaction but they don't because they make overwhelmingly excessive profits from overdraft fees. Everyone knows it. It is such common knowledge that it's impossible to deny. It must be easier for this representative to tell such a lie than it is to try and defend such a usuriously greedy practice. Perhaps "Mr. Common Sense" needs to find a new name. I'm thinking that "Shill for Wells Fargo Bank, NA" fits much better. He would have better luck trying to explain why parties, bonuses, and acquisitions are a good way to spend all the taxpayer bailout money. I pitty him if it's his job to hunt down and answer public complaints against Wells Fargo Bank, NA.
Mr Common Sense
Holland,Ohio,
U.S.A.
Fraudulent deposits are real
#4Consumer Suggestion
Wed, February 18, 2009
Fraudulent deposits are one of the fastest growing areas of fraud today. Between fake lottery scams, secret shopper scams and the Nigerian scams, people are depositing fraudulent checks into their accounts hoping that the checks are real - but knowing that the money they are depositing is not legitimate. Banks have the right to refuse or hold any deposit they feel could be at risk. In case you have been living under a rock - these scams prey on people's optimism that they could have actually won some large prize - without ever playing the lottery, etc. The instructions they receive usually tell them not to share the information about their good fortune with anyone, especially their banker. Then after the depositer thinks the check has cleared - waiting 7-10 days the bank holds the funds, they are instructed to wire money to an account to pay either taxes on their winnings or some related expenses. When the fraudulent check does come back (and it can take 2 weeks or more - (the bank has no method of knowing the check has actually cleared) the check is debited back against their account and the depositer is responsible for the amount they wired to the scam along with any other money they may have spent. If you deposit a check that you know is not legit, you are committing fraud and the banks take notice. Usually your account is closed immediately and you are reported for making fraudulent transactions. Because of these deposits, banks are watching deposits much closer and taking the appropriate steps to protect both you and the bank against chargebacks and losses. I think holds will be placed even more frequently now, and even for smaller amounts. As far as the cards, debit cards are issued at the discretion of the bank. They can choose not to issue cards, to block cards, or to cancel and not reissue. Having overdrawn your account gives them all the reason they need to block or cancel your cards. Usually they will give you a little lattitude, but if you habitually overdraw your account, it is not unusual for the bank to shut them down. You mention that banks should be treading lightly - but I think banks should be more assertive in their policies and keep people that overdraw their account from digging a hole they can not get out of causing the bank to charge off your negative balances. By shutting down your cards they are potentially preventing additional losses and making good business decisions. You can blame the economy, the scams, the people that rip off banks by overdrawing their accounts and not paying back what they owe - but you can't blame the bank. No Rip Off Here!
Mr Common Sense
Holland,Ohio,
U.S.A.
Fraudulent deposits are real
#5Consumer Suggestion
Wed, February 18, 2009
Fraudulent deposits are one of the fastest growing areas of fraud today. Between fake lottery scams, secret shopper scams and the Nigerian scams, people are depositing fraudulent checks into their accounts hoping that the checks are real - but knowing that the money they are depositing is not legitimate. Banks have the right to refuse or hold any deposit they feel could be at risk. In case you have been living under a rock - these scams prey on people's optimism that they could have actually won some large prize - without ever playing the lottery, etc. The instructions they receive usually tell them not to share the information about their good fortune with anyone, especially their banker. Then after the depositer thinks the check has cleared - waiting 7-10 days the bank holds the funds, they are instructed to wire money to an account to pay either taxes on their winnings or some related expenses. When the fraudulent check does come back (and it can take 2 weeks or more - (the bank has no method of knowing the check has actually cleared) the check is debited back against their account and the depositer is responsible for the amount they wired to the scam along with any other money they may have spent. If you deposit a check that you know is not legit, you are committing fraud and the banks take notice. Usually your account is closed immediately and you are reported for making fraudulent transactions. Because of these deposits, banks are watching deposits much closer and taking the appropriate steps to protect both you and the bank against chargebacks and losses. I think holds will be placed even more frequently now, and even for smaller amounts. As far as the cards, debit cards are issued at the discretion of the bank. They can choose not to issue cards, to block cards, or to cancel and not reissue. Having overdrawn your account gives them all the reason they need to block or cancel your cards. Usually they will give you a little lattitude, but if you habitually overdraw your account, it is not unusual for the bank to shut them down. You mention that banks should be treading lightly - but I think banks should be more assertive in their policies and keep people that overdraw their account from digging a hole they can not get out of causing the bank to charge off your negative balances. By shutting down your cards they are potentially preventing additional losses and making good business decisions. You can blame the economy, the scams, the people that rip off banks by overdrawing their accounts and not paying back what they owe - but you can't blame the bank. No Rip Off Here!
