Complaint Review: TopLine Business Solutions - Internet Internet

To get a better picture of just who the Howeys are ...go to www.MartnHowey.org

Mr. Martin Howey has proven to be a fraud.  He said he would deliver what he omitted if I would FIRST remove these comments.  Well, that is simply impossible.  He would not accept that.  In fact, I offered him my pass word so he could do whatever the site would allow.  Just to facilitate his wants.

I am addressing this to everyone 

I accept the fact that I might be wrong.  You see, I take things on their face value.

You make claims that perhaps are beyond the expected.  So, when you deliver less, and far less as it relates directly to what you advertise, I feel I must step up and say no Martin, You Can't Do This and expect me to remain silent.

That is the basis of my complaint ... all the rest is opinion and your opinions are valid and I can't find fault with them.   For example; Geo S May has a system based on what is taught in MBA programs.  Your system still works as long as when bringing in additional sales, the client is sure his costs are in line, or the additional sale can mean even more loses.   And in my experience and Geo S May's many business owners have no idea of what their break even is.

But that is he said, she said and not necessarily fact.

What is fact is:  You promised follow-up and NEVER EVER delivered.  Not even when I made calls to your office and was promised by your son that it was a computer glitch and would be corrected.   Not even a follow-up to see if I was yet receiving the emails?

It would be rudimentary for good business and frankly has me thinking, if you can't do what every company knows is good business, how can you be advising for a consulting fee?

So, let's make a deal.  I will try to separate your actions from what might be a body of knowledge that can in fact make me money.

But I am not young, I do not remember the basic course, I need to start over and that is why I can't answer your questions.  I have no experience to report because I have been out of the loop and sufficiently long to need to start over.

This is the way minds work.   When the student doesn't apply what he is taught, it has always been the teacher who is needed to change.  That is how successful schools work.

They know that they failed and need to make changes.  You are basing your teaching attitude on a system similar to the public school system, a flawed system for sure.  I have been a student in private schools where the teaching was such that you scored 100% on exams and more important demonstrated that you could apply what you attested to learning.

You might benefit from this experience if you stop look and consider what I am saying.

Let's start over and let's make sure I get it and apply it.  That is why I offered you a deal that I work in your area long enough to be sure I get it.  And I offered you 50% not 10% and you did not even have the courtesy to even say no.  And, you conveniently did not include that email on the website for all to see.

And, that is why I consider you a tricky individual and why others better off financially prefer to just forget about it.  I just won't go away because I never give up!

You offered me a stay in a hotel and the one day factor has not changed.  For a younger person who is also living near a major airport a night's stay in a hotel may not be necessary.

But, I don't travel well and the flights in and out of this airport makes it infeasible for me to even attempt.  It would take too long to recover from what would be about 20 hours.

You are a younger man and a Tri Athlete.  Your reality is a lot different.  The average man half you age would die attempting to duplicate your abilities.

I'm healthy but not made of that special stuff you are made of.

So it involves a start over and may not require I be there in person for the entire process?

Being responsible, I have devoted my time to getting hired.  And have just been asked to start a job which will go 12 or more weeks.  And, am being considered for another that pays a lot more.   So, my time is also critical.

So, if you cannot see your way to meet my terms, I shall ask a judge to make his or her decision based on what you promised versus what you delivered. 

And, I will report you to the attorney general seeking justice for others concerned because Martin you just don't get it.  You failed to follow-up, when you advertise otherwise. 

Perhaps you didn't intend to err, and I can forgive that!  But to deny that and not have the courtesy to even just acknowledge my request and fail to report it with the rest of the communications tells me you might, just might, be found at fault.

Yes, I ran this by a highly regarded legal professional and why I am in pursuit.  Yes, I have no guarantee, but the probability is favorable. 

The issue is the customer is either right or wrong. 

It's all about what you promised especially in your written copy versus what you delivered.   

And, the purpose of this forum if you read about it is to influence others accordingly. 
Meaning, it often brings sellers to think "maybe the customer is always right, even if I feel they are wrong?"  

so, I expect that anyone considering your services will judge accordingly.  Not that I may or may not be emotionally unhealthy, too lazy or any and all of the nice things you have say about me etc. etc.  

So according to you, since this is our last stance, I'll close by saying Martin it is your call, you meet the terms of the agreement as stated n your advertising or we'll meet in court and we'll also deal with the AG.  Maybe you should read what you have or had posted because marketers can get carried away with their copy, which when written may not have actually considered the need to follow through.

On the other hand, when you either see to it that I either get my money back or the ROI you suggest is possible, I will recant this report and then provide you a with a post success and more "legitimate" testimonial!

It's your call now!

This will be my last reply or rebuttal to Mr. Bell's assertations. All the facts are laid out in my prevous rebuttal and in the 22-page email exchange for all to see. I can no longer dignify his partial truths, blame-placing, and lack of responsibility for taking action with further responses. If Mr. Bell would spend as much time applying what he invested in and what I've taught him as he does beating this issue to death, he would be far better off financially, emotionally, and probably health-wise.

Obviously, Mr. Bell has some deep-seated issues, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with me or with the TopLine program.

A simple reading of the 22-page email correspondence I posted, as well as Mr. Bell's response to my previous rebuttal will reveal that.

The fact is, Mr. Bell has been offered an incredible opportunity to work one-on-one with me to help him outline a strategy that will work for him. As seen in the blog post at http://www.sevenfigureconsultants.com/?p=810, another consultant flew from Sacramento, California to spend time with me and help him with his strategy.

I picked him up at the airport at 11:55 am, and dropped him off at 6:00 pm. During those 6 hours, we mapped out a complete strategy that will give him several new profit sources and totally revamp his business. And yes, that consultant was required to complete the same questionnaire that I asked Mr. Bell to complete and submit to me prior to our meeting, but still, after 32 days, Mr. Bell has yet to do, and is now complaining of my lack of response to him.

Regarding an overnight stay... Mr. Bell has already been through the training and is (or at least, should be) familiar with most of the information. All we need to do in a meeting is map out a structure, a process, a systematic way of getting his business up and running... and that doesn't take several days. Six hours for one consultant just last week. Why? Because he answered the questions I asked and I knew exactly what to do for him when we got together.

In other words, he took action, and didn't look for someone to blame or make excuses. He just did what I asked of him, and we got results.

Regarding George S. May... A very good company. But they don't set the standard for how things are done in this industry, and they certainly don't tell me how to run my business, just as I don't tell them how to run theirs. They have a system that works for them, and we have one that works for us. Our website and our files are full of testimonials from consultants who are making it in this business. Are there some who are not? Of course, there, just as there in any other kind of business.

Mr. Bell is asking for a refund, not because the TopLine system doesn't work, but because of his lack of performance after 2 years. If he would simply complete the questionnaire and get it back to me, and take me up on my offer to help him, he could earn WAY more than the $5,000 that he is requesting. A little responsibility and accountability for one's actions can make a huge difference.

I have not closed the door on Mr. Bell or his request for help. I will continue to stand by my offer to work one-on-one with him to help him get value from his investment, but he's going to have to step up to the plate and take action. Life doesn't reward you for what you need or what you want... and neither will I. It pays you for what you DO.

So, Gordon... stop whining, stop complaining, stop placing blame, and take some personal responsibility. Complete the questionnaire, send it to me, schedule a time to spend a day with me (just like I ask everyone else to do), and let's get a strategy developed for you. I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to do this, I can't help you... and I don't see how I can be any more fair.

Here is the email I sent you with the questions, once again...

Gordon...

My schedule is filling up pretty fast. I have the following dates available...

Wednesday, February 10th
Friday, February 12th
Tuesday, February 16th
Thursday, February 18th
Thursday, February 25th

Because you have been through our program in the past, you will be familiar with a lot of the basic information, and will only have to be updated on the new information. And since there will just be you and me, we can move very quickly through the new material, which shouldn't take longer than one day.

There will be no need to schedule an overnight trip. If you schedule an early morning flight and your return trip later in the evening, we can knock this out in one day and get you back home so you can start implementing the information and getting some clients.

When I schedule personal consulting time with clients and consultants, it is critical that I am well versed in what you have done to market or improve your business, what results youve achieved, what has and hasnt worked for you, and what you are still in need of. Im here to give you everything I have to help you.

This will not be like a regular seminar where we have several people in attendance, have to take breaks every hour, and deal with a variety of random questions. This will be a very intensive, one-on-one session between you and me to give you the updated information and help you develop a strategic action plan to move you forward quickly and efficiently.

In order to make our time as productive as possible, please provide the following information as soon as you can so I can review it and be prepared for our meeting.

1. What have you done to market your consulting services since leaving training? (What kinds of letters, postcards, calls, joint venture relationships, advertisements, Internet related, etc.?)

2. What kinds of businesses have you targeted?

3. What kind of list did you use, how did you obtain it, how many names were on it, and how many of the names did you contact using any of the various forms of marketing?

4. Specifically, which of the marketing materials in your binders did you use, and what markets did you use them on? (Send copies of any sales letters or communications youve used in your marketing.)

5. What were the results of your marketing efforts? (How many did you send, how many responses did you receive, how many appointments did you make or people did you talk to, and how many sales did you make using each of the various forms of marketing?)

6. What kinds of strategies or systems that you learned in training have you used with your clients, and what have been the results?

7. Describe your system for generating referrals from your clients.

8. What kinds of clubs, associations, groups, or networking events do you belong to or have you attended?

9. What do you do when you go there? (How do you interact with the other attendees, what kinds of contact information do you collect, what leave-behind marketing materials do you leave with them?)

10. Send a copy of your You In The Box recorded interview, your book, special reports, CDs, DVDs, articles, website, and other positioning, marketing, or sales materials.

11. Who, specifically, is the target market that you identify with and that you are attempting to connect with?

12. How are you connected with that market? (Do you have experience in that field or industry, do you know someone who has introduced you to that market, or do you simply have an interest in the market for some reason?)

I expect our time together to be very productive. That means no time for chit-chat, small talk, or personal visiting. This strategy session will use the same format I bill my personal consulting clients $17,750 per day for. We will begin early in the morning and work virtually non-stop until we complete the work at hand. We have a lot to cover and time is of the essence. I take my personal consulting time very seriously, and will give you 100 percent of my focus and help in moving you forward. And I expect you to also be 100 percent focused on getting as much as possible from our time together.

Bring your TopLine manuals with you when you come so we can discuss whats in them, whats new, and how to integrate the two systems. You may want to consider printing this email out so you can check off the required items above and so you wont forget to bring your manuals with you. Let me know your choice of dates as quickly as possible, as they are disappearing at a very quick rate.

Martin Howey, CEO
TopLine Business Solutions

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That's it, Gordon. How can I make it any more clear that I am here to help you? But I can't do it by myself, and I can't reward or sanction inaction. You want my help, then let me help you... and don't tell me how to do it. Let me, based on 44 years in this business, and hundreds of success stories, do it my way. After all, it's been proven over and over again. And you, Gordon... you are the FIRST complaint I've received after all these years. And why? Because you haven't taken ANY action and you refuse to let me help you the way I know I can.

The door is open, but you're going to have to walk through it. The offer is on the table, but you're going to have to take the next step. And writing disparaging remarks will not provoke another response from me. It will just continue to make you look foolish.

Gordon Bell attended TopLine's Consultant's Training program, asked questions, participated, and seemed pleased with what he learned. At the end of the training, Mr. Bell gave a video testimonial about his satisfaction with his experience.

RESPONSE: The video testimony was shot after Mr. Howey made the same for me and everyone in the class.  It was a part of the course, if you will.  To not provide it would have been discourteous.  I consider it a gimmick or a way to get testimonials he might not have otherwise have obtained.

On the Expression of Interest form that Mr. Bell submitted, he represented himself as a seasoned consultant with clients in Oregon and California. As part of a test program that we were running at the time, Mr. Bell enrolled in a $20,000 program by paying only $5,000 down, and the balance to be paid at the rate of 10 percent of his future earnings, with no interest or additional charges.

RESPONSE:  I certainly did NOT state that I had clients in CA or OR because that would have been a lie.  I was in the process of moving to OR and only knew my family there. I did state I had Fortune 500 clients in the distant PAST; however, NOT in the topic he was teaching, or why would I have needed him and gone to him?

The facts are clear:  He promised follow-up communications of various forms.  Were it not for that I would never have participated. 

Instead, this is where Mr. Howey gets very slick.  He says it is the students responsibility to do something and that's expected.  That is NOT the issue.  I did do something the first couple of weeks, until I was evidently CUT-OFF or he SHUT DOWN my account.  Not a word or email followed the training ...such as had occurred with incredible frequency BEFORE attending the course.

THIS IS THE ONLY LEGAL ISSUE...what is advertised and what is NOT delivered.  He states I changed my email address, which I did because the ISP (Internet Service Provider) was not available in Oregon.  I specifically not only notified Mr. Howey, he acknowledged the change!  He was my life support in terms of enacting his teaching.

For the next 18 months following training, Mr. Bell did absolutely nothing with the information he received, and therefore, paid nothing on the balance he contracted for.

When he found himself in financial troubles, he wanted his money back and threatened to sell his manuals on eBay to raise funds. I counseled with him that selling a "box of books" might only raise $500 or so, and that he could make substantially more than that if he just applied what was in the manuals, and what he learned in training, to get a couple of clients to work with.

I even offered to forgive the balance he owed me, give him all the new and updated manuals, and even pay for his hotel expense, and meals, if he could get to Phoenix to attend another training session. We didn't have a session that would work for him, so I offered to spend an entire day with him and help him on a one-on-one basis so he would have my entire focus, and not have it diverted by others in a class.

RESPONSE:  Yes, Mr. Howey did very graciously offer what he states; HOWEVER, again, he changed the offer and took back his offer to put me up overnight and then asked for a list of requirements he knew I could not meet. 

So, I made a request 2 times which he again choose to ignore. 

It is impossible to make the connection from Medford Oregon and Phoenix Arizona in the same day unless we would be spending an hour or two. 

In other words, he changed the offer to something impossible to complete just as he did with his original commitment.  He states repeatedly and clearly that you are going to have all the follow-up you need, (words to that effect) and provided ABSOLUTELY NONE.  Again, That is really My Sole Issue!

I told him although the additional training should have been provided without my provocation, I needed more than anything ...what he originally promised and was and probably still is promising on his website.  FOLLOW-UP Communication etc.!

I provided HIS copy in the complaint for all to see.  I have come to believe, Mr. Howey makes statements and does not mean them as everyone can read from the email exchanges between us.  I too am willing to provide them, and shall in court and to the attorney general if I could only get his business address?

Mr. Bell is a desparate man, and refuses to take responsibility for his inactions, instead placing the blame for his lack of success on me for not qualifying him properly, even though what he submitted on his Expression of Interest, and our verbal conversations clearly indicated that he had the credentials and drive to succeed in this business.

RESPONSE:  Yes, I am financially desperate and otherwise might not relentlessly be on Mr. Howey's path. 

Actually, my desperation involves my wife, who I MUST help.  You see, she works from 11AM sometimes much earlier to 3AM and sometimes later the next day.  She does this six and often seven days a week because of a failed business venture and her desire to not fault on payments and harm our credit rating. 

YES, I needed Mr. Howey's business solutions so I could prevent my wife from this "abuse".  We moved to Oregon so she could work for her family who can't afford to pay her minimum wage.  So, we are essentially homeless and this has been the situation for the past 2 years.  

Yes, I hate to admit this.  And, I WILL make something work - I just have to.  Seeking the funds and damages should we go to court, is something I am forced to do.

My credentials were stated exactly as follows.  "Trainer of Communication/Presentation Skills and Business analyst for just one month for a major consulting firm.  ABSOLUTELY NO MARKETING CONSULTING experience.     I am too honest to attempt to bluff my way as is being inadvertently suggested by Mr. Howey's statements.

If Mr. Howey is sincere and even honest, he would honor the fact that I am not only financially desperate now, I was then.

For him to ignore my situation and numerous follow-up requests often involving hours on the phone with Chad Howey, his son, he would do THE RIGHT THING"  but he instead chooses to have a dissatisfied customer who he cares about not in the least.

Any honorable businessman would have made the refund just to get rid of the annoyance much less this now public forum.  If the intent were the right one, we would not be here devoting my precious time.

Perhaps, he (Mr. Howey) is now also financially desperate???

My previous experience was and is crystal clear!  I was in both situations required to perform an Internship, this is customary and even mandatory...and the follow-up that I was DENIED was just that ...an internship of sorts or again, for sure I would have passed up the "glowing" offer.

At the end of his complaint, Mr. Bell states that because we don't teach "financial analysis", that we're not a "business consulting firm", and that we're not a good "marketing firm" because we "completely ignore the Internet." An interesting observation, to be sure.

What we do teach, is how to turn a business around and make it profitable. With or without the Internet or financial analysis, it really doesn't matter. What counts... and the ONLY thing that counts... is, is the business making more profit after you've worked with it or not? And that's what we sell... profits!

RESPONSE:  I would have loved to see that played out ...if only he had kept his agreement!  At George S May, where I worked for one month, they heavily emphasized how vital the financial's of the business were ...and Mr. Howey promised he did have a system for handling that vital issue.  Of course, as was the case with the entire package ...There was NO FOLLOW-UP!

I have nothing to hide from nor run away from. In fact, I want to be completely transparent about who Mr. Bell is, what his motives are for this complaint, how I've tried to assuage his situation and make it right for him in every way possible.

RESPONSE:  If Mr. Howey is sincere about his transparency then let's see him do the customary thing.  Provide his business address, to me, the state, to his website etc.  The Attorney General told me they could not find him.  Until he registers with the state and or provides his address, he is not considered transparent and possibly shunning authority and accountability.  Or of course, issue what is to a man boasting a $5,000,000 annual income the paltry sum of $5,000.  It might save him further costs as can often be obtained through the courts.

I do commend Mr. Howey for posting what seems to be the entire exchange between us.  I'd need to double check to be sure it is all there but at a first glance it does appear to be in tact.   You can, if you want to take the time, to see exactly my pleas and his replies, which at the bottom line became pure bluffs or nonsense.  Nothing I could work with any longer because he refused to answer my request in any shape or form.  See for yourself, that is ...if he does not decide to remove it from the site.

You can read the entire email discussion between Mr. Bell, myself, and my staff at www.TopLineBusinessSolutions.com/gordon.htm.

Gordon Bell attended TopLine's Consultant's Training program, asked questions, participated, and seemed pleased with what he learned. At the end of the training, Mr. Bell gave a video testimonial about his satisfaction with his experience.

On the Expression of Interest form that Mr. Bell submitted, he represented himself as a seasoned consultant with clients in Oregon and California. As part of a test program that we were running at the time, Mr. Bell enrolled in a $20,000 program by paying only $5,000 down, and the balance to be paid at the rate of 10 percent of his future earnings, with no interest or additional charges.

For the next 18 months following training, Mr. Bell did absolutely nothing with the information he received, and therefore, paid nothing on the balance he contracted for.

When he found himself in financial troubles, he wanted his money back and threatened to sell his manuals on eBay to raise funds. I counseled with him that selling a "box of books" might only raise $500 or so, and that he could make substantially more than that if he just applied what was in the manuals, and what he learned in training, to get a couple of clients to work with.

I even offered to forgive the balance he owed me, give him all the new and updated manuals, and even pay for his hotel expense, and meals, if he could get to Phoenix to attend another training session. We didn't have a session that would work for him, so I offered to spend an entire day with him and help him on a one-on-one basis so he would have my entire focus, and not have it diverted by others in a class.

Mr. Bell is a desparate man, and refuses to take responsibility for his inactions, instead placing the blame for his lack of success on me for not qualifying him properly, even though what he submitted on his Expression of Interest, and our verbal conversations clearly indicated that he had the credentials and drive to succeed in this business.

At the end of his complaint, Mr. Bell states that because we don't teach "financial analysis", that we're not a "business consulting firm", and that we're not a good "marketing firm" because we "completely ignore the Internet." An interesting observation, to be sure.

What we do teach, is how to turn a business around and make it profitable. With or without the Internet or financial analysis, it really doesn't matter. What counts... and the ONLY thing that counts... is, is the business making more profit after you've worked with it or not? And that's what we sell... profits!

I have nothing to hide from nor run away from. In fact, I want to be completely transparent about who Mr. Bell is, what his motives are for this complaint, how I've tried to assuage his situation and make it right for him in every way possible.

You can read the entire 22-page email discussion between Mr. Bell, myself, and my staff at www.TopLineBusinessSolutions.com/gordon.htm.

Video comments from many of TopLine's consultants can be seen at www.TopLineBusinessSolutions.com and www.SevenFigureConsultants.com, as well as on www.YouTube.com, and a Google search for "Martin Howey, and "TopLine Business Solutions".

Here is a video of what I was attempting to do for Mr. Bell, but he would not respond to me, even after repeated requests to schedule time: http://www.sevenfigureconsultants.com/?p=810

Here are a couple more that indicates the success our consultants are having and that I wanted to create for Mr. Bell: http://www.sevenfigureconsultants.com/?m=201001

If you have any questions or would like additional information about this situation or the TopLine program, please call me on my private line, 480-969-1738.

 

Gordon Bell attended TopLine's Consultant's Training program, asked questions, participated, and seemed pleased with what he learned. At the end of the training, Mr. Bell gave a video testimonial about his satisfaction with his experience.

On the Expression of Interest form that Mr. Bell submitted, he represented himself as a seasoned consultant with clients in Oregon and California. As part of a test program that we were running at the time, Mr. Bell enrolled in a $20,000 program by paying only $5,000 down, and the balance to be paid at the rate of 10 percent of his future earnings, with no interest or additional charges.

For the next 18 months following training, Mr. Bell did absolutely nothing with the information he received, and therefore, paid nothing on the balance he contracted for.

When he found himself in financial troubles, he wanted his money back and threatened to sell his manuals on eBay to raise funds. I counseled with him that selling a "box of books" might only raise $500 or so, and that he could make substantially more than that if he just applied what was in the manuals, and what he learned in training, to get a couple of clients to work with.

I even offered to forgive the balance he owed me, give him all the new and updated manuals, and even pay for his hotel expense, and meals, if he could get to Phoenix to attend another training session. We didn't have a session that would work for him, so I offered to spend an entire day with him and help him on a one-on-one basis so he would have my entire focus, and not have it diverted by others in a class.

Mr. Bell is a desparate man, and refuses to take responsibility for his inactions, instead placing the blame for his lack of success on me for not qualifying him properly, even though what he submitted on his Expression of Interest, and our verbal conversations clearly indicated that he had the credentials and drive to succeed in this business.

At the end of his complaint, Mr. Bell states that because we don't teach "financial analysis", that we're not a "business consulting firm", and that we're not a good "marketing firm" because we "completely ignore the Internet." An interesting observation, to be sure.

What we do teach, is how to turn a business around and make it profitable. With or without the Internet or financial analysis, it really doesn't matter. What counts... and the ONLY thing that counts... is, is the business making more profit after you've worked with it or not? And that's what we sell... profits!

I have nothing to hide from nor run away from. In fact, I want to be completely transparent about who Mr. Bell is, what his motives are for this complaint, how I've tried to assuage his situation and make it right for him in every way possible.

You can read the entire email discussion between Mr. Bell, myself, and my staff at www.TopLineBusinessSolutions.com/gordon.htm.