Complaint Review: Toyota Motor Corp - Torrance California

I worked at a Toyota Dealer. They had a Toyota Rent a car program. These cars where NEVER serviced at all due to cost to dealer. They where then sold as Toyota Certified Vehicles or not Certified. Often they got one oil change at 20,000 miles. This is one way I know of engine oil sludge problems begin. I remember one Customer a lady with a Camry who bought the car with about 20,000 miles came back in at 25,000 miles and we where telling her she needed a new engine becuase of poor maintenance.(not enough oil changes) Of coarse she had done nothing wrong and the DEALER was at fault. I felt really bad but did not want to lose my job at the time having a new baby ect. I do not work for toyota anymore I was fired becuase I would not work for free. The dealer wanted me to do work with no repair order well if its not on record you dont get paid becuase they pay by the piece not by hours.

If you are having car problems and the dealers are of no assistance to you, there are other avenues available for you to get relief. A Dealers worst nightmare is an educated consumer. Therefore, if you want results and are sick of the dealers attitude, read up on the applicable lemon laws in your respective states. Consumers should always document their case. This includes obtaining copies of warranty repair orders, keeping contemporaneous notes of who they talk to at the dealership, what is said, and dates and times. Further, consumers should always put their complaints in writing and keep a copy of same. Many consumers are doing the right thing by complaining to the dealer, but remember, this will only get you as far as the dealer will allow, and in many instances the law is your best friend in getting the job done. I had to go this route about a year ago. I used the lemon law and was successful in getting a new car to replace the piece of crap the dealer sold me. Should you require additional information, email me at [email protected] Good Bye and Good Luck

Lynette, Toyota will continue to be great when it comes to small dollar repairs. Where they have fallen short is when catistrophic engine damage occurs. Think long and hard about the amount of money that we are talking about. And then think long and hard if you are truly willing to take the chance on Toyota's "good will". If you have read even a handful of the incidents that occured with the sludge issue then you would surely not stand up for Toyota so readily. I sincerely hope that the worst problems that you have with your Rav 4 are loose trim pieces god help you if it isn't. Trust me you will be treated as badly as the rest of us, who have come to know and despise Toyota and everything it stands for. I currently own three Toyota's, so I felt that I knew the product and believed in it for years until recently. Toyota can thank Keith Pierson Toyota Jackosonville, Florida/Bruce Ertmann Toyota Corporate and Josh Batie Toyota Corporate for destroying my faith in Toyota products and integrity. New car purchasers should BEWARE of Toyota and it's products!

I have been a Toyota owner since 1977. In all these years I've never experienced problems with getting problems resolved. I suggest that people DO take their vehicle back to the dealership where it was purchased. I've had little things like the trim pieces come loose after three or four years and they've been replaced at no cost to me. Toyota has always been fair with me. After my warranty is up on a new vehicle I take it to my good old mechanic. BUT not before then because I know how the "contracts" on warranties work. I come from a long line of people in the business, and worked in the car business myself for ten years. NOT for Toyota - ever, but I'd never by any other type of vehicle. I just bought a 2003 Rav4 and am LOVING it. I wish all of you would tell us the model of vehicle you're talking about with the sludge. I had a Celica, Corolla and now a Rav4. Good luck to all of you!

I had a sludged 2000 Sienna Van which was repaired under the new plan this past June. The van still does not operate efficiently. My wife and I had about 8% use of the van from June 2001 until July 2002. The sludge problem was diagnosed in June 2001. Like many owners, we were told our fault. When the Special Policy Letter arrived in February, we immediately tried to get the van fixed. Final approval was given in Mid June. We were essentially without the use of the van for 1 year yet continued to pay $399.00 per month for leases payments. Since April I have emailed Mr. Ertmann for assistance in reimbursing us for a rental car which we were never given while the van was in the shop. (We used used our other car during this time). Also we requested 13 months of lease payments to be reimbursed. Other owners have been reimbursed. Why not us. When Mr. Ertmann states he will investigate each case individually and that Toyota wants to satisfy the owners, he is misleading. I am still awaiting resolution from him. His last e-mail to me dated September 4th essentially told me he hoped to get answer. Please note, Toyota tried to have one of their goons, Jim Fewel, make us go away by offering us 2 month lease reimbursement. For a company that claims they want to help the affected consumer, they are going about it the wrong way. Mr. Fewel was very cold, customer unfriendly and pushed the blaim issue back in our laps. Essentially this was seed money and we should take it and go away. Beware of Mr. Ertmann promising to help...I am still waiting.

Mr. Mark, we appreciate your feedback, however, you may be just as "in the dark" as the latest victims of sludge. You say that your dealership has never turned away an owner and not passed on any charge to them for the sludge repair, correct? When did these repairs occur...before or after the current sludge policy? What you need to know is that many owners have been turned away. Even in Toyota-sponsored arbitration with proper oil change receipts in hand, owners have been DENIED the new vehicle warranty which they THOUGHT they would receive when they purchased their vehicles. In many cases, Toyota did NOT want to see the receipts and concluded that the ONLY CAUSE of engine oil sludge was improper maintenance of the vehicle. Owners were treated extremely poorly and asked to pay over $5,000 for rebuilt engines. This went on for several years before any public disclosure was made. And just what is PROPER MAINTENANCE? Is is maintenance as per recommended in the owner's manual? If so, it was followed by owners who still went on to have sludge in the engine. In other words, PROPER MAINTENANCE did NOT prevent sludge. While some owners who did change their oil more often than recommended did go on to get more mileage, many still got sludge! Is it fair to assume that the owners did not change the oil enough and blame them even without looking at receipts? This WAS done by many Toyota dealerships and based on the owner accounts on-line over the past two years, it was a common occurrence. Perhaps we could review your dealership's records to see if indeed some owners were asked to pay for full engine rebuilding when the sludge was discovered? Toyota clearly chose to go forward in hopes that no public disclosure would be made about the engine oil sludge. It has hoped that apathy would reign and that owners would just go away....even though angry and frustrated by the whole experience. This has NOT happened. Instead, owner after owner has reached out to find others. A network has begun on the internet and owner stories have proven to show a pattern of action by Toyota and a potential pattern for a defective engine. The Toyota Owners Network want Toyota to take full responsibility for this problem and STOP blaming the owners. If the occurrence rate is so small, Mr. Mark, why doesn't Toyota simply buyback the affected vehicles? Wouldn't this be the prudent thing to do? Why does Toyota instead choose to blame the owner and offer a bandaid treatment? Is this all about the bottom line rather than the customer's welfare? Many owner are rightfully suspicious as treatment in this matter has been inconsistent at best. Many owners still know nothing about the sludge policy at all. Perhaps, Mr. Mark, you can convince your dealership to go to bat for the owners and coax Toyota to do the right thing. A piece of paper and crossed fingers isn't going to give the owners the peace of mind that Toyota claims they are getting. They want the defect-free vehicle that they THOUGHT they had purchased! Remember one thing....the owners are the messengers in this matter. They are not to blame. They are not responsible for the fallout that results from the acknowledgement of this problem. The owners put their faith in Toyota and in its professed reputation for quality and reliable vehicles. They have been let down. It will be up to Toyota to fix the matter properly and engine flushing is NOT the answer. If you drive by any number of Toyota dealerships, you'll see plumes of smoke as engines are being flushed and cursory parts replaced. This will only buy Toyota time....time to get the vehicles out of warranty and out of its corporate hair. This is a travesty. If owners are smart, they won't settle for this. They will demand that Toyota buyback the vehicles to settle the matter once and for all. The dealerships are caught between a rock and a hard place. They must do what the corporation dictates. It must be an AWFUL place to be sometimes....I can't even imagine!! We understand that you aren't likely to cut off the hand that feeds you. BUT.....are there not some honest, hard-working Toyota employees who want the truth to be known and the peace to be restored? If so, please speak up....anonymously, if need be. Please don't attempt to whitewash the Toyota sludge phenomenon. It is NOT a simple matter and a simple policy will not make the problem go away.

Mr. Mark, we appreciate your feedback, however, you may be just as "in the dark" as the latest victims of sludge. You say that your dealership has never turned away an owner and not passed on any charge to them for the sludge repair, correct? When did these repairs occur...before or after the current sludge policy? What you need to know is that many owners have been turned away. Even in Toyota-sponsored arbitration with proper oil change receipts in hand, owners have been DENIED the new vehicle warranty which they THOUGHT they would receive when they purchased their vehicles. In many cases, Toyota did NOT want to see the receipts and concluded that the ONLY CAUSE of engine oil sludge was improper maintenance of the vehicle. Owners were treated extremely poorly and asked to pay over $5,000 for rebuilt engines. This went on for several years before any public disclosure was made. And just what is PROPER MAINTENANCE? Is is maintenance as per recommended in the owner's manual? If so, it was followed by owners who still went on to have sludge in the engine. In other words, PROPER MAINTENANCE did NOT prevent sludge. While some owners who did change their oil more often than recommended did go on to get more mileage, many still got sludge! Is it fair to assume that the owners did not change the oil enough and blame them even without looking at receipts? This WAS done by many Toyota dealerships and based on the owner accounts on-line over the past two years, it was a common occurrence. Perhaps we could review your dealership's records to see if indeed some owners were asked to pay for full engine rebuilding when the sludge was discovered? Toyota clearly chose to go forward in hopes that no public disclosure would be made about the engine oil sludge. It has hoped that apathy would reign and that owners would just go away....even though angry and frustrated by the whole experience. This has NOT happened. Instead, owner after owner has reached out to find others. A network has begun on the internet and owner stories have proven to show a pattern of action by Toyota and a potential pattern for a defective engine. The Toyota Owners Network want Toyota to take full responsibility for this problem and STOP blaming the owners. If the occurrence rate is so small, Mr. Mark, why doesn't Toyota simply buyback the affected vehicles? Wouldn't this be the prudent thing to do? Why does Toyota instead choose to blame the owner and offer a bandaid treatment? Is this all about the bottom line rather than the customer's welfare? Many owner are rightfully suspicious as treatment in this matter has been inconsistent at best. Many owners still know nothing about the sludge policy at all. Perhaps, Mr. Mark, you can convince your dealership to go to bat for the owners and coax Toyota to do the right thing. A piece of paper and crossed fingers isn't going to give the owners the peace of mind that Toyota claims they are getting. They want the defect-free vehicle that they THOUGHT they had purchased! Remember one thing....the owners are the messengers in this matter. They are not to blame. They are not responsible for the fallout that results from the acknowledgement of this problem. The owners put their faith in Toyota and in its professed reputation for quality and reliable vehicles. They have been let down. It will be up to Toyota to fix the matter properly and engine flushing is NOT the answer. If you drive by any number of Toyota dealerships, you'll see plumes of smoke as engines are being flushed and cursory parts replaced. This will only buy Toyota time....time to get the vehicles out of warranty and out of its corporate hair. This is a travesty. If owners are smart, they won't settle for this. They will demand that Toyota buyback the vehicles to settle the matter once and for all. The dealerships are caught between a rock and a hard place. They must do what the corporation dictates. It must be an AWFUL place to be sometimes....I can't even imagine!! We understand that you aren't likely to cut off the hand that feeds you. BUT.....are there not some honest, hard-working Toyota employees who want the truth to be known and the peace to be restored? If so, please speak up....anonymously, if need be. Please don't attempt to whitewash the Toyota sludge phenomenon. It is NOT a simple matter and a simple policy will not make the problem go away.

Mr. Mark, we appreciate your feedback, however, you may be just as "in the dark" as the latest victims of sludge. You say that your dealership has never turned away an owner and not passed on any charge to them for the sludge repair, correct? When did these repairs occur...before or after the current sludge policy? What you need to know is that many owners have been turned away. Even in Toyota-sponsored arbitration with proper oil change receipts in hand, owners have been DENIED the new vehicle warranty which they THOUGHT they would receive when they purchased their vehicles. In many cases, Toyota did NOT want to see the receipts and concluded that the ONLY CAUSE of engine oil sludge was improper maintenance of the vehicle. Owners were treated extremely poorly and asked to pay over $5,000 for rebuilt engines. This went on for several years before any public disclosure was made. And just what is PROPER MAINTENANCE? Is is maintenance as per recommended in the owner's manual? If so, it was followed by owners who still went on to have sludge in the engine. In other words, PROPER MAINTENANCE did NOT prevent sludge. While some owners who did change their oil more often than recommended did go on to get more mileage, many still got sludge! Is it fair to assume that the owners did not change the oil enough and blame them even without looking at receipts? This WAS done by many Toyota dealerships and based on the owner accounts on-line over the past two years, it was a common occurrence. Perhaps we could review your dealership's records to see if indeed some owners were asked to pay for full engine rebuilding when the sludge was discovered? Toyota clearly chose to go forward in hopes that no public disclosure would be made about the engine oil sludge. It has hoped that apathy would reign and that owners would just go away....even though angry and frustrated by the whole experience. This has NOT happened. Instead, owner after owner has reached out to find others. A network has begun on the internet and owner stories have proven to show a pattern of action by Toyota and a potential pattern for a defective engine. The Toyota Owners Network want Toyota to take full responsibility for this problem and STOP blaming the owners. If the occurrence rate is so small, Mr. Mark, why doesn't Toyota simply buyback the affected vehicles? Wouldn't this be the prudent thing to do? Why does Toyota instead choose to blame the owner and offer a bandaid treatment? Is this all about the bottom line rather than the customer's welfare? Many owner are rightfully suspicious as treatment in this matter has been inconsistent at best. Many owners still know nothing about the sludge policy at all. Perhaps, Mr. Mark, you can convince your dealership to go to bat for the owners and coax Toyota to do the right thing. A piece of paper and crossed fingers isn't going to give the owners the peace of mind that Toyota claims they are getting. They want the defect-free vehicle that they THOUGHT they had purchased! Remember one thing....the owners are the messengers in this matter. They are not to blame. They are not responsible for the fallout that results from the acknowledgement of this problem. The owners put their faith in Toyota and in its professed reputation for quality and reliable vehicles. They have been let down. It will be up to Toyota to fix the matter properly and engine flushing is NOT the answer. If you drive by any number of Toyota dealerships, you'll see plumes of smoke as engines are being flushed and cursory parts replaced. This will only buy Toyota time....time to get the vehicles out of warranty and out of its corporate hair. This is a travesty. If owners are smart, they won't settle for this. They will demand that Toyota buyback the vehicles to settle the matter once and for all. The dealerships are caught between a rock and a hard place. They must do what the corporation dictates. It must be an AWFUL place to be sometimes....I can't even imagine!! We understand that you aren't likely to cut off the hand that feeds you. BUT.....are there not some honest, hard-working Toyota employees who want the truth to be known and the peace to be restored? If so, please speak up....anonymously, if need be. Please don't attempt to whitewash the Toyota sludge phenomenon. It is NOT a simple matter and a simple policy will not make the problem go away.

Mr. Mark, we appreciate your feedback, however, you may be just as "in the dark" as the latest victims of sludge. You say that your dealership has never turned away an owner and not passed on any charge to them for the sludge repair, correct? When did these repairs occur...before or after the current sludge policy? What you need to know is that many owners have been turned away. Even in Toyota-sponsored arbitration with proper oil change receipts in hand, owners have been DENIED the new vehicle warranty which they THOUGHT they would receive when they purchased their vehicles. In many cases, Toyota did NOT want to see the receipts and concluded that the ONLY CAUSE of engine oil sludge was improper maintenance of the vehicle. Owners were treated extremely poorly and asked to pay over $5,000 for rebuilt engines. This went on for several years before any public disclosure was made. And just what is PROPER MAINTENANCE? Is is maintenance as per recommended in the owner's manual? If so, it was followed by owners who still went on to have sludge in the engine. In other words, PROPER MAINTENANCE did NOT prevent sludge. While some owners who did change their oil more often than recommended did go on to get more mileage, many still got sludge! Is it fair to assume that the owners did not change the oil enough and blame them even without looking at receipts? This WAS done by many Toyota dealerships and based on the owner accounts on-line over the past two years, it was a common occurrence. Perhaps we could review your dealership's records to see if indeed some owners were asked to pay for full engine rebuilding when the sludge was discovered? Toyota clearly chose to go forward in hopes that no public disclosure would be made about the engine oil sludge. It has hoped that apathy would reign and that owners would just go away....even though angry and frustrated by the whole experience. This has NOT happened. Instead, owner after owner has reached out to find others. A network has begun on the internet and owner stories have proven to show a pattern of action by Toyota and a potential pattern for a defective engine. The Toyota Owners Network want Toyota to take full responsibility for this problem and STOP blaming the owners. If the occurrence rate is so small, Mr. Mark, why doesn't Toyota simply buyback the affected vehicles? Wouldn't this be the prudent thing to do? Why does Toyota instead choose to blame the owner and offer a bandaid treatment? Is this all about the bottom line rather than the customer's welfare? Many owner are rightfully suspicious as treatment in this matter has been inconsistent at best. Many owners still know nothing about the sludge policy at all. Perhaps, Mr. Mark, you can convince your dealership to go to bat for the owners and coax Toyota to do the right thing. A piece of paper and crossed fingers isn't going to give the owners the peace of mind that Toyota claims they are getting. They want the defect-free vehicle that they THOUGHT they had purchased! Remember one thing....the owners are the messengers in this matter. They are not to blame. They are not responsible for the fallout that results from the acknowledgement of this problem. The owners put their faith in Toyota and in its professed reputation for quality and reliable vehicles. They have been let down. It will be up to Toyota to fix the matter properly and engine flushing is NOT the answer. If you drive by any number of Toyota dealerships, you'll see plumes of smoke as engines are being flushed and cursory parts replaced. This will only buy Toyota time....time to get the vehicles out of warranty and out of its corporate hair. This is a travesty. If owners are smart, they won't settle for this. They will demand that Toyota buyback the vehicles to settle the matter once and for all. The dealerships are caught between a rock and a hard place. They must do what the corporation dictates. It must be an AWFUL place to be sometimes....I can't even imagine!! We understand that you aren't likely to cut off the hand that feeds you. BUT.....are there not some honest, hard-working Toyota employees who want the truth to be known and the peace to be restored? If so, please speak up....anonymously, if need be. Please don't attempt to whitewash the Toyota sludge phenomenon. It is NOT a simple matter and a simple policy will not make the problem go away.

to all those concerned about sludge. I have fixed about 5 sludge cars so far. my only question to the upset people is did you buy the car new or as a used lease return. so far all 5 of my cosomers have left this dealer with zero i repeat 0 dallors of expence that is a avarage of 3000 dallors toyota has paid to each claim. i have my own opinion of why these cars sludge up but do not want to create arguments just to say im very proud to be a 16 year veteran of toyta master tech. and not seen toyota turn one customer away yet. I understand people concerns about not wanting to take to dealer, but in my own defence im just here to take care of the customer, weather it be sludge or you need an express lube we care!

Mr Bruce Ertmann you say that Toyota will reimburse customers for repairs and incidental expenses that Toyota owners have had to shell out. You also say that Toyota will stand by their products for up to eight years from the date of first use/unlimited mileage. You also say in your email that we as consumers should contact our local Toyota Dealership. Let's get some info out for one and all to read. First we as car buyers are tired of car makers telling us to "GO TO YOUR DEALER" You and I both know that dealers only care about one thing when talking to consumers, That is how much money can they make or take from their next customer. They don't get paid unles they are "MAKING or TAKING our MONEY" All car makers need to have in place a program that lets consumers talk directly with the makers. You and Toyota need to never forget that we are not buying a dealers product, we are buying Toyota's product. Dealers only care about the next buck that is being made. Toyota needs to anounce to the public that they screwed up on a few engine designs and explain to the Toyota owners how they plan to remove the defective designed parts from the involved product line that is effected. Toyota should not just replace defective parts with new defective parts or engines. I also urge any Toyota product owners to have a sample of your oil professionally analyzed to find out if they have any strange substances in it, Like water, antifreeze, fuel/gas or any bearing material or any metal shavings from moving parts that are quietly grinding apart. I also urge these Toyota owners to not tell the analyzing company what kind of car that your oil came from. This is a way to get an unbiased reading of your oil. I am VERY SURE that Big auto companies have a way to get a planned out come if they have deep pockets. We as car buyers are SICK and TIRED of big car companies telling us what they only want us to know, we also are tired of car makers dumping us back in the lap of the franchised car dealers that realy only want to sell us another car. Most car dealer employees only make/take money out of our pocket if they are SELLING US SOMTHING. If Toyota wants to keep mud off of their name, they need to take fast action on resolving this issue. Toyota Motor Corp also needs to never forget the longer this issue goes on, more consumers will post their Toyota trouble on the internet for all to read. There is no eraser that can remove what we consumers are posting on the net. To Hell with edmunds.com and to HELL WITH the elected DEMOCARPS in the media that like to keep the americans uninformed and quiet and censored. Thank god for THIS COOL WEB SITE. Replacing the defective parts with new defective parts is only a PATCH that will fall off.

Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. has in place a Customer Support Program to assist owners of affected vehicles that may have incurred engine damage as a result of engine oil gel--or sludge. Our program is aimed at reimbursing customers for repairs and incidental expenses previously paid out of pocket and to provide assurances to all owners of the affected vehicles that we will stand by our products and offer repair coverage should sludge occur for a period of eight years from the date of first use/unlimited mileage. Far from wanting this customer satisfaction issue swept "under the rug", our customer support team, Toyota and Lexus dealers nationwide and I (Bruce C. Ertmann/Corporate Field Operations and Dealer Development Manager) have and will continue to work tirelessly to ensure that every Toyota customer who may have endured the frustration and expense of a sludge-damaged engine has their individual case reviewed and resolved to complete satisfaction. To date, many sludge-affected customers have had just that type of attention and remain loyal and satisfied Toyota owners. If Jim in Sarasota, Florida is a Toyota owner and has an issue with us that remains unresolved, his best course of action is to work through his dealer. Assuming that he has done that and is still not satisfied, I welcome him to contact me directly or email me at [email protected]. Those individuals seeking information/assistance re our Customer Support Program may call either of two toll-free telephone numbers: Toyota Customers-- (888) 802-9436 Lexus Customers-- (888) 654-6421 I'm hopeful this rebuttal clarifies the facts for Jim as well as others seeking information via this site.