Complaint Review: U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GEORGE BUSH - Washington D.C. Maryland

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was submitted several hours ago at this website.

It was submitted in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #684178, but it hasn't been posted yet.

Just type in 684178 at this site to see if it is available later today or tomorrow. If it isn't posted by 11:00 AM EST on October 26, 2011, it will be submitted again.

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BANK OF AMERICA
WELLS FARGO
CHASE
CITIBANK
US BANK
ONE WEST BANK
WACHOVIA
FIFTH THIRD
ALLY
JP MORGAN
BANK

is available at this website!

Just type in 581744 at this site and it appears in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #581744.

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is available at this website!

*Just type in 646259 and it appears as 'Consumer Comment #73' at Ripoff Report #646259.

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is only available at this website!

*Just type in 476868 and it appears as 'Consumer Comment #5' at Ripoff Report #476868.

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HAPPY NEW YEAR

and "CESSPOOL OF LIES POEM 2" are both available at this website.

*Just type in 646259 and they both appear in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #646259.

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MERRY CHRISTMAS!

was submitted at this site earlier today in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #411913.

where it is posted in the consumer comments section at Ripoff Report #411913.

if I'm not mistaken, right?

is available at the BANK OF AMERICA page of this site. It appears as a comment to one of the Ripoff Reports.

NEVER FOUND IN IRAQ.

Republicans have ruined enough people In alabama, they are not fair with unemployment, workers rights. They have given employers the right to lie & ruin your careers. They treat you like you are nothing, they want to ruin you. Well john should not had said his ignorant comment. But the stupid people of alabama keep voting republican, I still don't see how republicans help make their lives better. They never have helped mine except made everything worse.

I'm not sure who you are, but you have obviously misunderstood the reason for this site. It is not to spew you anti-Bush, anti-American, extreme liberal viewpoints. It is to safeguard people against getting ripped off by scam artists. If you would like to spew you socialistic garbage, start a blog. You are free to believe whatever you want, it's you second ammendment right, but not on this site. I am appalled that the web master didn't just delete this. Come on.

Charles is here from the RED state of alabama.

Bush did the samething. He went back on all of his promises. But nobody never has said anything about that.

Obama has to date, reneged on 100% of his campaign promises. That's right folks...he has gone 180 degrees from everything he said he would do. The funny part is, the people who voted for him are the ones who are getting shafted first...just like when Clinton was first elected. We'll all suffer, but at least 48% of us knew how REALITY works. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

How was people able to vote for palin. She wasn't running for president. She Is like most republicans. Doesn't care about the people.

I am not a Bush fan because of his outlook on the illegal alien situation and his lack of concern for LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS. He is a typical politician. I am not a McCain fan for the same reasons. I did, however, vote for Governor Palin. I would rather have a legal, native born citizen as President of the United States of America than a socialistic, non-Native born, hate-America and her LIBERTIES flunkie like Hussein Obama ( i.e. "Barry").

Its the same old buy sung from the gop agenda. They cannot stand to lose, so what else If for them to do. They whine like babies. Republicans do not care about americans. Republicans want to punish us the american people & take everything away from us. Rush limpballs Is a liar to. The republican party has changed sense bush has been elected, they have ruined this country with all there trash talk. And telling people who to vote for.

THIS IS THE SAME SONG THAT HAS BEEN SUNG BY LIBERALS SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME. FACT IS THERE ARE JUST AS MANY OR MORE RICH LIBERALS...KENNEDY, KERRY, DASHEL ETC.... ALSO THE OIL ANGLE HAS BEEN PLAYED OUT FAR TOO LONG AND STILL RINGS AS A LIE. WE ARE TAKING NO OIL OUT OF IRAQ ALMOST 6YRS LATER OR OUT OF KUWAIT. PLUS THE COMMENT ABOUT IRAQ CITIZENS QUACKING IN THERE BOOTS IS ONLY POSSIBLE FROM SOME TWIT WHO HAS NEVER BEEN IN SWA. FEAR IS HARDLY AND OPTION FOR THESE PEOPLE. I HAVE SPENT 4 TOURS IN SWA AND THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT FEARFUL IN THE LEAST. BUT AS USUAL YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO COMMENT REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY HEAR OR READ AND WILL NOT CHECK THE FACTS. I DO CHALLENGE THE AUTHOR TO SHOW ONE SHRED OF PROOF ABOUT HIS VERSION OF THIS BEING DONE FOR OIL PROFITS OR SADAM BEING ONLY NOT A NICE GUY.

Me a liar I don't think so. Nothing you accuse me of bothers me, because you do this to everybody here on rip-off report. Because none of it is true, I don't know you & you do not know me. So keep on posting lies about me john you are only wasting your time. Because nothing you say scares me. I will have to warn people about you john, who files complaints. Because he will post lies about them & call them liars & deadbeats. I know the truth he or anyone else does not know the truth. John & other people do everything they can to keep me quiet, but I will not keep quiet. I will continue to expose lying businesses & employers. So keep talking john & this Is to everybody else on this website. And I am being treated very unfairly. I am nither a fraud or a deatbeat, just a ticked off consumer who Is tired of being taken advantage of.

since you promised to leave us in your fraudulent schneider report. Why do you insist that you can play with the adults here? 'I don't have to leave.' >> You promised to. That procves once again you are a liar. 'I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent.' >> They have been proven time and time again that they are not. You post as your mommy and like you have information when you were not even there. That makes you a fraud and any reports you have posted fraudulent. 'You are violating my rights.' >> No, no I'm not. You know absolutely NOTHING, much less anything about 'rights'. I can point out anyone's fraud and lies that I want to. I can't wait for the new law to get passed that will allow for suing people like you for your lies and fraud. Then, you'll finally have l to leave like everyone wants you to. 'I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post.' >> But you post on this very site that others can not post in certain reports. What makes you any better than someone who is actually educated? And why do you insist on stealing? 'And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers.' >> When are you actually going to start? YOU have never dealt with 'bad business' nor have you ever been employed. 'So deal with It.' >> Yes, you do need to deal with begin exposed time and time again. 'And this will be my last response to you.' >> No it won't . You have already proven this to be another of your many lies. 'I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud.' >> Of course you will as I will continue to expose your lies and fraud. 'Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds.' >> Why do you continue to lie and not provide one shred of proof to this accusation as I have asked for months to see now? Because it's another lie - that's why. 'And I do not care what people think.' >> Another lie or you would just go away like everyone wants you to. - How can you have any credit card at all if you have no money like you claim in all the collection reports you crap in? - How can you afford a computer to perpetrate your fraud with if you have no money like you claim in the collection reports you pollute? - How can you afford an internet connection to perpetrate your fraud if you allegedly have no money as you claim? - How can you afford an attorney for all these alleged lawsuits you claim to be filing if you have no money like you claim? - Why did you get a cellphone you knew you couldn't afford when you have no money as you claim? - Why haven't you paid the people you have owed money to for a long time? - How can you afford a vehicle to go out and cause accidents in if you allegedly have no money? - How can you afford the exorbitant insurance from the accidents you cause in the vehicle you shouldn't be able to afford if you have no money as you claim in the collection report? - How can you be buying your panties and dresses off QVC if you have no money? - When are you going to apologize for lying to Steve as was proven about allegedly not being on some sort of meds? Or are you not on meds? Which is the lie? - When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report so that isn't also one of your many lies? - When are you finally going to answer the legitimate questions asked of you?

since you promised to leave us in your fraudulent schneider report.Why do you insist that you can play with the adults here? - How can you have any credit card at all if you have no money like you claim in all the collection reports you crap in? - How can you afford a computer to perpetrate your fraud with if you have no money like you claim in the collection reports you pollute? - How can you afford an internet connection to perpetrate your fraud if you allegedly have no money as you claim? - How can you afford an attorney for all these alleged lawsuits you claim to be filing if you have no money like you claim? - Why did you get a cellphone you knew you couldn't afford when you have no money as you claim? - Why haven't you paid the people you have owed money to for a long time? - How can you afford a vehicle to go out and cause accidents in if you allegedly have no money? - How can you afford the exorbitant insurance from the accidents you cause in the vehicle you shouldn't be able to afford if you have no money as you claim in the collection report? - How can you be buying your panties and dresses off QVC if you have no money? - When are you going to apologize for lying to Steve as was proven about allegedly not being on some sort of meds? Or are you not on meds? Which is the lie? - When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report so that isn't also one of your many lies? - When are you finally going to answer the legitimate questions asked of you?

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent. You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post. And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers. So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud. Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds. And I do not care what people think.

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent. You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post. And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers. So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud. Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds. And I do not care what people think.

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent. You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post. And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers. So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud. Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds. And I do not care what people think.

I don't have to leave. I have every right to be here, & none of my complaints are fraudlent. You are violating my rights. I have every right to post In any complaint I wish just like the crap you post. And I will continue to report wrong doings buy bad businesses & lying employers. So deal with It. And this will be my last response to you. I will continue to post regardless If you call me a deadbeat or fraud. Which I am not the only consumer you harass here on rip-off report, you have accused other posters of being deadbeat & frauds. And I do not care what people think.

And stop stealing our tax money. Why do you insist that you can play with the adults here? - How can you have any credit card at all if you have no money like you claim in all the collection reports you crap in? - How can you afford a computer to perpetrate your fraud with if you have no money like you claim in the collection reports you pollute? - How can you afford an internet connection to perpetrate your fraud if you allegedly have no money as you claim? - How can you afford an attorney for all these alleged lawsuits you claim to be filing if you have no money like you claim? - Why did you get a cellphone you knew you couldn't afford when you have no money as you claim? - Why haven't you paid the people you have owed money to for a long time? - How can you afford a vehicle to go out and cause accidents in if you allegedly have no money? - How can you afford the exorbitant insurance from the accidents you cause in the vehicle you shouldn't be able to afford if you have no money as you claim in the collection report? - How can you be buying your panties and dresses off QVC if you have no money? - When are you going to apologize for lying to Steve as was proven about allegedly not being on some sort of meds? Or are you not on meds? Which is the lie? - When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report so that isn't also one of your many lies? - When are you finally going to answer the legitimate questions asked of you?

Palin loves to talk about other people & bash them, but when the heat Is on them they do not like It. The palin family gets mad & blast people when they get talked about. It seems they can dish It out but they can't take It. People sure can trash talk other people, but don't dare say anything about the palin family, you will pay the price. I am so glad mccain & palin did not win. Palin really hates obama & democrats know, HAHA.

Another mis-informed, under educated consumer. How many American citizens had to die because of the actions taken by Bush? A few contractors. Obama and his weak knee'd tactics of putting our country down overseas? Probably many, he's a wimp, therefore, not good for consumers. Most people who opposed the war can't even spell "Saddam Hussein," let alone understand why we had to go over there and take a good look for ourselves to see if there were any nuclear programs in process, after all, he had months to hide or destroy anything incriminating. Slant oil rigs? That's nuts, no one would let that happen, after all, Margaret Thatcher, for those who don't remember, or probably were 2 years old at the time, was the one who convinced Bush Sr. to get the coalition together. Also, since you're soooo uninformed, I'll just leave you with this; Bush was in the oil business when oil was a bust, the mid-eighties. He made his money buying part of the Texas Rangers. None of those people made money off the war; they had plenty going into office. You obviously have no education; the chem lab at an average university can produce enough chem./bio. weapons to take out quite a bit of a large city. Once you have the recipe, (he did use them before), you can, at anytime, make more. You're a disgrace to your country, go live in N. Korea or Russia. Then, you will see that your comments about my countries interests in providing for the consumer had nothing to do with paranoid delusions. Also, you do this fine service a very bad dis-service by posting idiotic, left-wing propaganda that hasn't been heard and ignored before, (the main reason for this rebuttle), which is for consumers of products/services, here in the US to keep people from getting ripped off from "companies," not the government, which I'm proudly serving.

The President, House nor Senate have control over the economy Wall Street does your idiot!! Thanks to sub prime lending that sent the stock market into a tailspin Any idiot who took Economics 101 would know that - ohhh sorry you did not even get through High School Grow up Charles - Bush nor Clinton nor Reagan ruined the economy Wall Street did ( there was a little matter in the 80s called the S and L scandal much like the sub prime scandal) I suggest you brush up on your history

Of course john still fails to see bush ruined the economy. He just wants to give me a hardtime. Bush deserves no credit we will be paying the price for a long time because of bush and cheney. Because of stupid people like john & the rest of the people who elected george w bush & re-elected him In 2004 to send there kids of to iraq to be killed or disabled for the rest of there life. I voted for obama & I will vote for him again In 4 years. John doesn't hold bush or the republicans accountable for anything. I don't care what john says!.

Then 'Google' this- THE SCORE BY RUDY STANKO, and read the 3 reviews on that book! Pay close attention to the American FLAG on the cover of that book too!!! Then 'Google' this- DR MANDELSTAMM OF KIEFF, and read his quote in its entirety which is on 'Page 94' of that passage that starts on 'Page 88'. READ THE ENTIRE PASSAGE TOO!!! It seems obvious that the WAR in Iraq was simply a WAR between the FEDERAL RESERVE and the Arabs, or MUSLIMS living in the Mideast, wouldn't you agree? Oil was also a reason too, right? The FEDERAL RESERVE is a private corporation owned by a 'cartel' of BANKERS, according to the documentary entitled- 'America: Freedom to Fascism'. WHO set the rate at 1% back in 2003? Answer: The FEDERAL RESERVE! WHO suffered as a result of MILLIONS of MORTGAGES that were either A.R.M.'s or Interest Only Mortgages that have gone into FORECLOSURE since 2003? Answer: The American people, and the ENTIRE WORLD, correct? HOW were these mortgages possible? By LOWERING the RATE to 1%, correct? WHO made MILLIONS, TENS of MILLIONS, HUNDREDS of MILLIONS, and even BILLIONS of dollars as a result of the MORTGAGE MESS? Answer: Bankers & Investment Bankers, correct? The stock market flourished during this ARTIFICIAL ECONOMY that was a result of LOW INTEREST RATES set by the FED, right? WHO are they? Hmm, Perhaps- Bear Stearns, Lehman, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BlackRock Inc., Merrill Lynch............., correct? YOU BE THE JUDGE! QUOTE: 'The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you have to EXPLODE!' - Dylan FACT: Americans have LOST $2 TRILLION in their RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS, IRA's, & 401K's, since the summer of 2007! THEORY: The rest of Americans RETIREMENTS, IRA's, 401K's, & other investments will DISAPPEAR in 2009! WHY? Answer: 'We're only a PAWN in their GAME!' - Dylan I'm Karl, and I approve this Update! P.S. Don't forget to 'Google' this- RIP OFF REPORT #271454, and read the 1st Update to Betty's Ripoff Report. QUOTE: 'The collapse of the U.S. economy is in its infancy. Get all of your money out of the stock market and cash in your retirement NOW! Most people cannot see what is coming I do! Americans have $4 Trillion in their.........' 9-3-2007. (IT CAME TRUE, didn't it?) Also 'Google' this- RIP OFF REPORT #261157, and read the Update entitled- 'SUGGESTION' that was posted on 7-16-2007. Look what was stated about 401K's & the Dow Jones! (IT CAME TRUE, didn't it?) Then 'Google' this- RIP OFF REPORT #269041, and read what a Harvard Business Professor said to his class in late 2004. It's in the Update entitled- 'Blame it on a Lawyer'. This was posted on 8-21-2007. (IT CAME TRUE, didn't it?) GO HARVARD!

Charles is not willing to prove his own facts. Again charles, which of the above vetoes ruined the economy as you claim. Isn't it funny how George bush had far less vetoes then yoiur buddy Bill Clinton who did actually ruin the economy. Why don't you give Bush some credit because this country hasn't been attacked for since 2001 (oi thanks to the Dems in congress who were against him all the way). Charles will respond with some more name calling and attacking with no facts to back him up, I did not vote for Obama but i pray that he will be a great president and will bring the country together. He obviously has an uphill battle with congress because of the NEW RULES that Nancy Pelosi put in the House to silence Republicans. How can you have bi-partisanship if the rules silence the minority party? Only time will tell...... It's gonna be a wild ride...

1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed). 2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of... H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval. 3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007. 4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed). 5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto. 6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed). 7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[19] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed). 8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[20]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008. 9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[21][22] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188. 10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[23][24] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246. 11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6421, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[25] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto. 12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[26] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President's veto

Charles: I just asked you for 1 EXAMPLE of an ECONOMIC proposal that Bush vetoed. You obviously know there isn't one because you can't name it. Show me where I called Obama anything like the names you are calling Bush. Check your facts before you ramble..........

Charles: From About.com U>S> Politics as of Dec 2008 As of December 2008, President George W. Bush had vetoed only 12 bills since taking office in January 2001. Only one Presidential veto occurred before Democrats took control of Congress in January 2007. This is the fewest Presidential vetoes of any modern President; in March 2006 Bush set a 200-year veto record. Source: US Senate.

Hey john go to aol your republican friends are on there calling obama every name In the book & accusing him of everything, you would love It there. Bush Is slime, bush & his republican cronies caused this country to fail, bush veto everything In 2007 which sent the economy & everything else tumbling.

Hey john go to aol your republican friends are on there calling obama every name In the book & accusing him of everything, you would love It there. Bush Is slime, bush & his republican cronies caused this country to fail, bush veto everything In 2007 which sent the economy & everything else tumbling.

Hey john go to aol your republican friends are on there calling obama every name In the book & accusing him of everything, you would love It there. Bush Is slime, bush & his republican cronies caused this country to fail, bush veto everything In 2007 which sent the economy & everything else tumbling.

Before you call me names again and call George Bush any names. Please tell me one bill that Bush has vetoed that would have stopped the economy from tanking?

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore. The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It. But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore. The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It. But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore. The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It. But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Republicans caused this mess I don't care what anyone says, they are just mad because they are not inpower anymore. The republicans caused this country to fail, and bush. Well the people voted for the moron so they can suffer. They have made there bed they can live In It. But of course they will always blame the democrats for our current problems not there republicans.

Its still hard for you to accept your republicans are the cause of this mess we are In today. The democrats are not the cause of this mess, they tried to pass bills but bush veto them all even the important one the healthcare bill. So you can give congress the lowest approval rating you can & the rest of your republican friends. The republicans & bush are the cause of this mess, bush said why did the country have to fail under him wake up bush you & your republican cronies caused It. And you have stupid people like john who defend you. Republican never take responsibilty for there own actions. The republicans caused this mess john, but you or your fellow republican voters do not want to hold your republicans or bush accountable so you blame the other side for these problems.

John all you do Is bash and bully people, I stick up for myself. I don't bully people I just don't take peoples crap or take crap from you so get over It. Nothing you say bothers me. Its the other way around people bully me & post comments to me that isn't true.

even when he doesn't know them and he is stealing their hard earned tax money to live off of. He really is the lowest life form.

First of all charles the democrats have had control of the government since 2006. I know it is hard for you to understand but in the House and Senate there has been a Democratic Majority. To make it simple for you a "Majority" means there are MORE Democrats than Republicans. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank were in charge of the finance committees and should have seen this coming just as much as Bush should have. So be civil and quit attacking one person when there is more than enough blame to go around. I think it's funny how you Dems all call bush Nasty Names and are still doing it even though you have won. I don't hear any republicans calling Obama the names that your Princess Nancy Pelosi and Prince Harry Reed have called Bush.

Democrats didn't cause this mess. Republicans did It doesn't suprise me that the republican voters blame democrats besides there republicans. The republicans had control for 6 years, nobody never complained about them. Anyone who still supports bush Is blind and ignorant. But bush loves ya'll for It.

These people who voted bush need to suffer, for voting for such a moron. We are all suffering.

Your republicans have practically ruined the middle class people, they all have lost there jobs cars & homes. Republicans did It to themselves. America voted for the a****** twice to send there kids of to iraq to be killed or wounded. Bush's fahter can just want on him & his son have ruined this country, the bush family can't be trusted. While bush lives comfortably In his 2 million dollar home others will be suffering because of him. The bush family Is nothing but a bunch of money hungery crooks. I love how the bush & mccain fans are crying on the internet. Bush's fahter can just want on his other son jeb will never be elected president or senate. The texas people can have the moron back they deserve him. Sean Hannity can shut up to.

George h bush can just want on. America will never vote for another member of the bush family they have messed this country up enough. I would vote for any other republican or democrat to keep the bush family away from the white house. They have screwed up this country. The goverment gives free health care to illegals and they don't even help us out the people who where born legal citizens. And these illegals get more then we do. Why wont the government send these illegals back home besides supporting them. Other governments would not do that for us.

We can look forward to a Senate Majuority Leader who thinks he is god and says he will not seat a legitimate appointment by the Governor of Illionois. He says he will seat Al Franken even though the election is still not certified. And Obama is sitting there and letting this happen so he is just as guilty. This is just a preview of the Government running everything in our lived whether they have th authority to or not.

I'm so happy that the Bush regime is leaving the White House. Now we can get down to business and once again be proud Americans. For those who profited from the Bush terror I hope you burn in your proverbial hell for eternity. Good bye Bushie and Cheney you loser, scumbag terrorists!

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

I can only hope that this 6th grade bickering will stop. And from the looks of it since Obama has become the President Elect, it has stopped. But what really amazes me out of all this wasted air is, and forgive me if I overlooked it, why wasn't the 1990's bombing of the Twin Towers not mentioned? After all this was under Clinton's watch, was it not? Was that a conspiracy that people who bash President Bush, conveniently forget about? Well, it will calm down now, because after all, everything here on out will probably be peaceful since the antagonists got their way. Or will it?

ok-ok-ok- i am VERY proud to be an American! But- BUT- i am NOT proud of the jack-asses who are running it - because all they are doing is running it right into the ground. Think about this- #1- Bush and his family and CRONIES are all OIL tycoons. So why is it surprising the war has bled black blood? #2- If our problem is with IRAQ- and Bin Laden- why are our troops in Afghanistan? why did bush say NO to the "final shot" when troops had ol' osamah in sites? not ONCE- not TWICE-but 3 times? #3 does any one else find it grossly unsettling that we are supposed to be after one man- but find a reason to kill another? #4this country was doing just fine- not great, but fine. now in just 8 short years Bush has all but maxed out our "spendages", and taken this country into what is going to be ANOTHER GREAT DEPRESSION! i honestly can't fathom how people don't know what we are talking about- i mean- don't you watch the news? no, not local- watch some CNN, get educated. the man is the closest thing to the devil! he has all of our lives and well being in his hands and yet its almost like he is playing "army men". how dim do people have to be to not realize that he was CHEATED into office! again- how dim do people have to be to not see what was coming? ummm....duh! Then- there are the folks who are all "bush is the best- whoo h*o- lets get 'em". but then cry, and moan when they don't have a job, cant get a loan, cant pay the bills, cant afford to go to the doctor- and d**n sure cant afford the $5.00 a gallon bill to get them anywhere! so YES- i mostly agree with the author. and in MY OPINION- your DIM if you are going to vote in McCain! if you are that curious as to what his presidency would be like- take a good look at the past 8 years! sit down and think about it! As far as it goes Mc BUSH!!!!!!! that is the gist of it. so i don't blame the author for getting his opinion out there. its not that its NON- patriotic-, its just the truth is hard to swallow sometimes. brava- author!!!!! Also- if your wondering what i have to go by- check out www.zietgeist.com

Voters please ignore anything coming from the bush or mccain supporters. They are all over the internet posting lies & smears agaisnt obama & getting people agaisnt him. They got away with It In 2000 & 2004 but we are not going to let them get away with It In 2008. Republicans are not for the people they are for big business & big coporations & ceos. Republicans do not know how to follow the rules & play fairly even karl rove said mccain has gone to far!. Do not believe any internet ads posting from the mccain team. Don't let them take your freedom away we have the right to vote for who we want to vote for just like they do!. Show them this year they will not get away buy lying & cheating to stay in the white house. Because we all know mccain Is bush's third. Mccains ideas & policys are just the same has bush. Do not believe there garbage there dirty money will not help them this year. The republicans had 8 years to change but they went back to them same old stuff during the reagen years & bush sr. years!. George W. Bush Is worse then his father but bush & mccain do a good job In convincing the voters they are the best people to run the country.

Voters please ignore anything coming from the bush or mccain supporters. They are all over the internet posting lies & smears agaisnt obama & getting people agaisnt him. They got away with It In 2000 & 2004 but we are not going to let them get away with It In 2008. Republicans are not for the people they are for big business & big coporations & ceos. Republicans do not know how to follow the rules & play fairly even karl rove said mccain has gone to far!. Do not believe any internet ads posting from the mccain team. Don't let them take your freedom away we have the right to vote for who we want to vote for just like they do!. Show them this year they will not get away buy lying & cheating to stay in the white house. Because we all know mccain Is bush's third. Mccains ideas & policys are just the same has bush. Do not believe there garbage there dirty money will not help them this year. The republicans had 8 years to change but they went back to them same old stuff during the reagen years & bush sr. years!. George W. Bush Is worse then his father but bush & mccain do a good job In convincing the voters they are the best people to run the country.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

There are many people in government who are wealthy. John Kerry wealthiest Senator, followed by 5 more Dems. Wealthiest person in House is Dem. Pelosi worth $12 -$16 million. I know how liberals hate facts. Also, Democrats in charge for past 2 years - any changes you like, any fulfilled 'promises'? i was a Democrat for 20 years - until I got the brain implant.

You sound like you just do not like our country as a Vietnam Era vet., I know what it meens to serve this great nation of ours so if you do not like it leave it go to a country where they have no freedom of speach and will cut off your arm for stealing a loaf of bread try one of the Arab States Or Korea Or China so on & on! A real American!!

Good God! First off, this website is for filing complaints about scams and bad customer service - not the United States government! If you're that dis-satisfied with the Bush administration, nobody is forced to live in US territory. You're free to get out anytime you wish! Complaining is your legal right, but accusing the President of the United States of such things is uncalled for unless you can prove it somehow. Since you cant... sit there and wait until November, when the next President is elected. Bush will be gone, and you may discover that the socialism of Clinton and Obama isn't so wonderful after all. You're blessed to be legally allowed to b***h. Soon, that may disappear.

"Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause." YOU DON"T HAVE A JOB!!!!!!! Stop pretending to know anything about employment.

You don't know me or my situation so how can you or anyone else call me a liar? its time with these bad insurance companies & bad businesses stop getting away with treating us wrong!. You don't like it john you can get the f**k out! you just decided to harass me like all the other abusers on this site this is harassment john I have never said a thing to you until you started posting crap in my reports & calling me a liar. Nobody has proved me wrong I am not afraid to speak out if it is the truth I will not just come on here & make up lies about companies like you are accusing me of, it seems you have a problem with people doing it. I might not get anything from reporting complaints on this site but I am..

I don't care if you or anyone else believes me john what you say or anyone else says means nothing to me. These businesses & insurance companies try to get away with everything they can with doing us wrong. You do no know me john nither does the other insulters about my complaints. I am reporting the truth I don't care if you believe me your comments mean nothing to me. I don't have take this abuse or being treated this way!.

who gets to spew absolute baseless garbage yet people like myself who post FACT that debunks your lying racist bullshit doesn't get posted. Who are you blowing to get protection on this site fagboy. Robert posted a rebuttal to your lying sensless crap. Don't like it, get the f**k out - which you should do anyway. You have been proven wrong yet again and you insist on crying like the whining t**t you are. None of youe alleged 'complaints' are based in facts, just what you want like a little baby who doesn't get their bottle. This is why you can't make it in the real world.

Robert strikes again with his insults why should we have to agree with bush or any of the bush supporters. The workman's compensation claim in my state of alabama is a joke or any other state, they accept responsibilty @ the beginning when you are hurt on the job & start paying you. Then if you need sugurey they just stop payment out of the blue, they even have it in writting that it was a work related accident a slip & fall. But know they have made up some excuse to stop paying payment's. You have to get a lawyer & fight for what already was yours they accepted responsibilty & where already paying but you are able to sue for the distress they have caused you & your family. Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause. They try to get away with everything doing people wrong.

Robert strikes again with his insults why should we have to agree with bush or any of the bush supporters. The workman's compensation claim in my state of alabama is a joke or any other state, they accept responsibilty @ the beginning when you are hurt on the job & start paying you. Then if you need sugurey they just stop payment out of the blue, they even have it in writting that it was a work related accident a slip & fall. But know they have made up some excuse to stop paying payment's. You have to get a lawyer & fight for what already was yours they accepted responsibilty & where already paying but you are able to sue for the distress they have caused you & your family. Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause. They try to get away with everything doing people wrong.

Robert strikes again with his insults why should we have to agree with bush or any of the bush supporters. The workman's compensation claim in my state of alabama is a joke or any other state, they accept responsibilty @ the beginning when you are hurt on the job & start paying you. Then if you need sugurey they just stop payment out of the blue, they even have it in writting that it was a work related accident a slip & fall. But know they have made up some excuse to stop paying payment's. You have to get a lawyer & fight for what already was yours they accepted responsibilty & where already paying but you are able to sue for the distress they have caused you & your family. Employer's are allowed to screw you they can terminate you even if the accident was there fault here in alabama, & then you have to put up with the bad insurance company to pay you for an accident you didn't cause. They try to get away with everything doing people wrong.

"This country is really not all that great." Name a better one. "First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards." If we got rid of the Liberals, we wouldn't have any cowards. "This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet." Really? This country is actually self sufficient. The last time I looked, we are the only ones who can hold our own. This would explain why every other free country depends on us to protect them. "instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else!" Name the time that happened, and which country it was. Be specific. If it actually happened, we would be eating free food, wearing free jewelry and clothes, and using free fuel. The last time I checked, I was paying for this stuff. "If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv." Amazing! We feed the entire world, yet you think we'd starve. Other than chromium(which we buy from South Africa...a country we "bullied" into abandoning aparthied), we don't need anything from anywhere else. There is enough oil(I know how you Libs think) under our own dirt to provide us with fuel for 300 years. "So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully." Again, what food do we need to import? What basic neccessities do we need to import? Name anything, other than chromium we need to import? Now, on to the best. "I agree" What a shock! Charles agrees with someone who hates America. "This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of." It also has at least one lazy mooch more than we need. "There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right." YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! Stop pretending you have a clue about what employees deal with. "There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer." Poverty in this country is still a higher standard of living than most others. You could raise your income Charles, by GETTING A JOB!!!!!!

"This country is really not all that great." Name a better one. "First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards." If we got rid of the Liberals, we wouldn't have any cowards. "This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet." Really? This country is actually self sufficient. The last time I looked, we are the only ones who can hold our own. This would explain why every other free country depends on us to protect them. "instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else!" Name the time that happened, and which country it was. Be specific. If it actually happened, we would be eating free food, wearing free jewelry and clothes, and using free fuel. The last time I checked, I was paying for this stuff. "If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv." Amazing! We feed the entire world, yet you think we'd starve. Other than chromium(which we buy from South Africa...a country we "bullied" into abandoning aparthied), we don't need anything from anywhere else. There is enough oil(I know how you Libs think) under our own dirt to provide us with fuel for 300 years. "So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully." Again, what food do we need to import? What basic neccessities do we need to import? Name anything, other than chromium we need to import? Now, on to the best. "I agree" What a shock! Charles agrees with someone who hates America. "This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of." It also has at least one lazy mooch more than we need. "There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right." YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! Stop pretending you have a clue about what employees deal with. "There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer." Poverty in this country is still a higher standard of living than most others. You could raise your income Charles, by GETTING A JOB!!!!!!

"This country is really not all that great." Name a better one. "First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards." If we got rid of the Liberals, we wouldn't have any cowards. "This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet." Really? This country is actually self sufficient. The last time I looked, we are the only ones who can hold our own. This would explain why every other free country depends on us to protect them. "instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else!" Name the time that happened, and which country it was. Be specific. If it actually happened, we would be eating free food, wearing free jewelry and clothes, and using free fuel. The last time I checked, I was paying for this stuff. "If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv." Amazing! We feed the entire world, yet you think we'd starve. Other than chromium(which we buy from South Africa...a country we "bullied" into abandoning aparthied), we don't need anything from anywhere else. There is enough oil(I know how you Libs think) under our own dirt to provide us with fuel for 300 years. "So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully." Again, what food do we need to import? What basic neccessities do we need to import? Name anything, other than chromium we need to import? Now, on to the best. "I agree" What a shock! Charles agrees with someone who hates America. "This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of." It also has at least one lazy mooch more than we need. "There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right." YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! Stop pretending you have a clue about what employees deal with. "There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer." Poverty in this country is still a higher standard of living than most others. You could raise your income Charles, by GETTING A JOB!!!!!!

This country isn't great its full of crime, murderer's, thieves, scammer's bad businesses all you can think of. There is corruption in this country people get taken advantage of from scammer's & bad businesses, even if you are a good employee you still get fired cause employers have the right. There is poverty in this country. Well people wanted bush so they got what they deserve its to late know, & the rest of us have to suffer.

First of all, this country is a bully. They're cowards. This US don't have its own resources, it doesn't stand on its two feet. instead, they go invade, push around, and put guns in people's head and say give me your resources or else! If it wasn't these other country's resources, this place would not be great, or all that. We would starv. So actually, we're depending on other countrys for food and basic necesities really. so tell me, where is this great country come from? It's not so great if you have to be a big bully.

I take it you and all the other "war-stoppers" have forgotten the real reason that we are there. 9/11!!!! How could you forget something like that? Do you really want that to happen again here? Well it would if we happened to leave now. And I also take it that you have never served in the military because if you did you would have nothing but respect for the job our men and women do to protect your butt! We do it so that you can have the peace and comfort every night as you lay your head down on your pillow knowing that you don't have a thing to worry about! So my advice to you is to shut your mouth and do something real with you life.....!

Christopher, I hope you still read this however I don't believe this is the right site for this banter I could not help myself to responded. You have no idea what goes on inside of Washington. You all have to excuse me but the names of the people in the following story of the CIA agent have flown in and out of my head so I wont be able to give the names to back up what I'm about to say but you can look up the story. Christopher and to all have you not read or did you just forget that one of the top right hand man to Saddam told the one CIA agent who had interviewed him that Saddam wanted the the world but mostly the USA and Iran to believe that he (Saddam) had WOMD=weapons of mass destruction; before our President even considered going to war he was told by our inside guys (cohorts) information that Saddam had the WOMD and planned to use them. So Saddam got his wish he wanted to have everyone believe he did have them and would use them. Our president did what we elected him to do protect us! What else could our president do with the information he had and after 9/11 I for one wouldn't expect anything less. Our President was going on information that was told to him and was assured to be true, but once committed you cant go to war then leave once you found out that oh Saddam he just wanted you to believe that he had WOMD ha ha just kidding. If our President would have pulled out right then there what would you be saying now? President Bush is right no one likes War but you have to see it through you can't just up and leave and wash your hands of it because it is taking to long or costing to much I don't like it either I might have done things differently alot of us would but give the man respect for not just walking out once he committed to go in. Just one added point that when President Bush and congress was ran by majority Conservatives our country was the most prosperous it had been since Reagan but since the house had switch to Dem's look at what has happened to our economy but hey lets blame the pres for that too!

i bet you also belive that 9-11 was created by bush, or that big foot lives, of that Hillary is a good prerson, or that night is day and day is night. do you really belive the bullshit that your spreading?? you don't do you?? If you truely belive that cra, leave and live somewhere else. I have served in the army and USMC, for over 30 years, and even though i have sworn to defend this country and it's people i have to say you, not so much. i hear canada is nice this time of year. go find out

Just some quick comments I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36 Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed! There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause. The amount of Racisim here is astounding The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else. I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it. I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

Just some quick comments I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36 Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed! There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause. The amount of Racisim here is astounding The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else. I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it. I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

Just some quick comments I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36 Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed! There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause. The amount of Racisim here is astounding The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else. I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it. I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

Just some quick comments I am from Canada and now live in MD for the last 5 years. I am 36 Every time I talk to my parents or friends they are telling me about something you NEVER hear about in the news. Everything is filtered and fed..but I'm sure you all know that anyways. I think you just don't know what you are getting filtered A socialized health system would stimulate the economy because people would not owe for medical bills. People would have higher credit scores. I have NEVER owed for medical before coming to this country. There are no waiting lists in Canada, no more than here! We are all being fed! There are many books and publications NOT available to the US because of lawsuits they would cause. The amount of Racisim here is astounding The Iraqis or that whole part of there country has been fighting since it's been documented..why would they stop now, they are always going to have something to fight about. If it isn't with the US, it will be with someone else. I don't agree with war, I don't agree with the oil thing...I do agree that those guys do like to fight and history shows it. I am not a historian, a economist or a reporter but I do know what I see and hear from both sides and IT STINKS!

ya'll need to start thinking for yourselves it is not wrong to be for or against g w bush but he makes it so hard to believe that anything he does is for the better of Man kind www.loosechange911.com and do other research pro and con. like most people i was pissed when i saw the plane crash into the second tower but there is alot of information the puplic does not know, but most of it is public record and done in plain veiw for all to see like a magician, slite of hand. there's is so much more to what has happed if you could just open your eyes and mind and see it all for what it truly is WRONG. all i hear is have you forgot 9/11? HAVE you forgot kent state? i have forgotted either and i am a shamed of both.

One of the many rebutters, prior to this note, posted as follows ( Moreover, your post is so full of Karl 'screw the facts, let's blame it on Clinton' Rove, RNC talking points B.S. it's not even funny anymore that people are dumb enough to believe any of these things. When are people going to start thinking for themselves, and educating themselves, on these matters instead of letting the right-wing, neo-con nutcases of this Administration do their thinking for them?) When are people going to wake up. When they get angry enought to find the truth for them selfs and stop reading all the left - right bull on the net. A good place to start is LExes Nexes - Complete documentation of everything done in Congress, The White House, By person of note in and out of Government. They record every thing as stated - no inserts - no addmissions. Its not free so there is the first excuess for some of you. What ever you do stop reading all the crap on the net and find non affiliated recorders of the day to day activities in this country. Bill Vacaville, CA Forgive my poor speeling

Many of you may not suspect that "9/11" was an Inside Job. Check out the hard facts which are plenty on the internet, on Google, Youtube etc. Plenty of videos on Youtube on 9/11 the inside job. It's a shame when the guys in the government killed ~3000 of their own citizens instead of protecting them. Blaming "terrorists" for "9/11" is One Big Lie. There were no terrorists, it all was orchestrated by guys like Uncle Sam, Larry Silverstein, The d**k, Walker Talker and his Bros. and a few more. Since that morning 7 years ago I've been repating same phrase again and again: "What a shame. What a shame. What a shame."

Are you aware that the largest supplier of oil to the United States is Canada? If this were a 'war for oil' we would have invaded your piss-ant little country and this war would have been over in no time! I think many of the lib's on this site forget that the vote for war was almost unanimous. That means BOTH PARTIES sent our brave soldiers into combat. Mabey that's why the democratic run congress has the LOWEST APPROVAL RATING EVER! They don't stand behind what they started.

I don't agree with all the presidents ideas or policies, but I find that the persons who don't agree with anothers beliefs or point of view and are hateful and use name calling usually do this because they are not well informed and that is all they can resort to. We can be like we were in WWII and ignore what goes on in the rest of the world, not get involved, and so 5 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Chritians, 1900 Catolic priests were murdered, massacred, raped, starved, and humiliated, We were brought into WWII by the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and why did they do this, because wewere santioning them because the atrosities that they were committing. And we had protesters agaist the war then to. But thats whats great about this country, you can have your opinion. I have a son in Iraq now, and a friend of mine whose son has been there twice. They tell alot different story than you hear on the news. And the Kurds, they are happy we are there because they were being eliminated. If you don't agree fine, but use facts and dialoge not hate and name calling.

I came to this site today as a new user, looking for information to help me determine if a company that I am interested in patronizing is reputable. As a cautious consumer, I research companies as a rule before establishing new business relationships or purchasing consumer goods. While the internet provides easy access for criminals to prey on the vulnerable, it also can be an invaluable tool for consumers to protect themselves. As I browsed the various companies and postings, it was immediately obvious that this site is just what I have been looking for. I was so excited to finally find a site that is devoted to consumers and the hazards we need to be wary of. This will save me so much time - it's a virtual 'one stop shop' - and I won't have to manually search site after site anymore! Suddenly I found myself engrossed in this 'report'. I had to double check to be sure I hadn't somehow wandered into another site. I thought this site was 'by consumers, for consumers'. I can't recall a time when imposing ones political views and opinions was considered a commodity. I live near Washington D.C. but I have never headed over to the Executive Office Building to pick up milk or have my oil changed. Debating foreign policy and arguing over the virtues (or lack thereof) of current and former presidents aren't for sale on the shelves of my local Wal-mart. Of course these individuals have every right to voice their opinion on these topics, but do they belong here? There is certainly no shortage of websites, newspapers or television programs that are devoted to these issues. If I am interested in learning about a presidential candidate's position on an issue that is important to me, I don't have to look for more than a fraction of a second to get all the political information I can handle. Why can't this site be reserved exclusively for what it was intended to be for? This thread has been ongoing for YEARS, yet I can't imagine why it was ever allowed to be included on this wonderful CONSUMER site in the first place. Please refer political 'reports' to the appropriate place so that this site can maintain it's integrity as an all-encompassing resource 'by consumers, for consumers' and I'll get my fill of politics from Tim Russert, The Washington Post and www.usa.gov another time. Thanks!

All of this is rediculous. Impeach Bush? C'mon now! Use a little common sense. Don't you think that will the rabid, anti-Bush, left-wing, ultra-Liberal media here in America that ANY chance of impeachment happening would have happened LONG ago? I think yes it would have. So please, let it go. Bush has just over a year left in office. You know what the dirty little secret about that is? HE CANNOT RUN AGAIN!!! You're just hurt because your boyfriend Bill Clinton go caught committing perjury. If being President is so easy then you run for the office and see how far you get. Besides, is RipOffReport.com really the forum for this in the first place? I don't think it is. Merry Christmas!

Marine Corps! Have a Happy Holiday all you lesser beings. Don't forget the airing of grievances, and feats of strength this fine Festivus.

Whew! This was a long act to follow. I read this from the beginning, and I was surprised to see as much as I have. I now have the following comments. To the person from S. Africa- Thank you for your comments. This is indeed a great nation. The person from the UK- I seem to recall the Dixie Chicks getting booed off stage while in Great Britain awhile back for talking bad about the US President and the war. I'm not sure about the timimg, but I do believe the war in Iraq had already started. To Christopher, the originator of this report- How would you respond to b from Newbury Park, CA? To all Vets, Ex-Vets(whatever that means), and former servicemen- Just want to do a quick census. How many of you are here, and what branch? I myself served in the Navy.

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11... The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes. My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time? And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it. By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11... The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes. My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time? And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it. By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11... The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes. My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time? And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it. By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

In response to the comments about the firemen and 9/11... The irritating overkill was over the firemen and policemen who "went in to the towers without any regard for themselves", or "when civilians are running out of a building, who is running into the danger? Firemen!" The hype surrounding 9/11 was such that our US Congress officially categorized each and every office worker as a "hero" and with that status their families received $1M each from our taxes. My question then as it is now is how could our politicians call a "victim" a hero at the same time? And spend billions just because it felt good at the time? And about firemen... Give me a break. First of all, it is their job. They get PAID to do it. And if they do not do their job, then they will be removed from it. By definition, a HERO is someone who puts their life on the line for another's, and does NOT GET PAID TO DO IT. The compensation factor alone, eliminates all firemen and policemen from the category of being "Heroes".

I'm almost 50 years of age. In my life, there has always been some kind of war going on. When the United States isn't invading someplace, they are running a cold war nuclear buildup scam. So, what is the one thing that all these wars have in common? No, idiot! Not oil. What did oil matter in the Vietnam war? And, not communism or terror either. The one common denominator is money. Now, tell me, who makes the money in every war? No, idiot, not the soldiers. They make little or nothing. Where is the big money going? That right, in war equipment. It's a trillion dollar industry. Everything from combat boots to stealth bombers to paper for soldiers to wipe their asses with. Add it all up. Trillions of dollars. Here's the thing. Without a war, nobody could sell war products, right? So, the companies that make war products need to spend bribe money to make sure some kind of war is going on all the time. That's why we have wars. Because the companies that supply war products pay bribes to keep them going. Tell me, if you had billion dollar defense contracts, wouldn't you kick back millions of dollars to see that they keep on coming? d**n right. Remember this. Money is the root of all evil. It's never about the principle or about honor or terror. It's always about the money. Just look to see who makes the money. That's probably who has the biggest reason to start the wars and keep them going. So, you can forget about seeing the end of the war anytime soon. If the Iraq war does ever end, we will still maintain troops there. And, as soon as it ends, the war suppliers will figure out a way to get a new war going. You can count on that. Peace? No more wars? Not in my lifetime. And, not in yours either! Get used to it.

Is it Patriotic to kill people in other Countries? Gee I thought it to be Patriotic to stand for "what is right" about your Country. To defend your Country from "opposition on your soil". Who's soil were you on while you were being Patriotic? Were you being attacked? Were any of your "major allies" being attacked? What threat to you made you Patriotic? If you are a "vetran" that does not make you Patriotic. It may mean you wanted a licence to kill people, or use powerful weapons or "brag". I don't see how it can be Patriotic to fight silly wars in places you really have no personal interest in, or can see why your Government has an interest in them at all. I would think a Patriot, would be against war at this point. Given the war in Iraq. After Vietnam.

Attacking Iraq and our economy at the same time that they attack our basic freedoms doesn't smack of compassionate conservatism to me.I'm also worried about Social Security. While the whole idea of the government forcing us to participate wether we think we could do a better job of investing our hard earned dollars or not is repugnant to me, I've paid in for so long, I'm afraid of what they will do with it. While it's true we pay into the system all of our working lives, the funds the program pays retirees are actually coming from whoever happens to be working at the time. As baby boomers leave the workforce there will be less and less coming in and more and more going out. While I'm sure you know this already, just think what the current administration can do to an already flawed system. I'd rather allow my pitbull/bulldog mix (none too bright) make money and foreign relations decisions for me than Bush and his cabinet. The thought of Bush nominating, and the party in power deciding who will fill maybe three or four of the inevitable (due to attrition) vacancies on the Supreme Court this term has me terrified at what may happen to our rights. Sorry to hear about Dale's Glaucoma, I know it drove my uptight mother to smoke weed. As a matter of fact my wifes family has been hit hard by retinitis pigmentosa,lateral retinitis and glaucoma. The only thing that gives them any relief is weed. It's too bad Maryland doesn't allow medical marijuana. A compassionate use law would probably give many people whose states don't have one, something to lobby for. Well, I've got no Morphine Pump to turn on or off, but my meds are starting to make me sick. Alaska has a medical marijuana registry, but since my medical care is from the V.A., I'm afraid I may get in trouble with the Feds if I were to indulge. Happy whatever Holiday you guys celebrate. I'm a happy heathen so I just close up shop for a couple of days and enjoy family time.

I have to say, your last post was more thoughtful then you have been in months and my family doesn't wish the best for anyone and everyone this Holiday Season. That being said, I feel for your wife, Dale has Glacoma (spelling???) Yet he continues to work full time and then some, he's old fashioned and believes in being the "bread winning" so to speak. As I have stated numerous times, we have done so much for so many. As a parent of a disabled child, I take any and all disablities to a serious nature. No matter whatever factor involved. I really don't believe it is a case or which party is what. Our nation needs more than we care to know. I read some interesting news on Yahoo earlier today about some of these new cabinet members. One of which wants to take what little social security gives to fix other budget concerns. Something isn't right with this whole picture. If you had read everything I've written you would have seen that I believe we need to do what we have to to insure safety for our children's futures, however I think our troops should have been home long ago. My problem with our great nation is the offset occurring in our finacial endevours. Hell, Southern Maryland has money (well they're finding it) to find a baseball stadium, but there's no funds for schools, etc. This is the kinda' crap that needs to be stopped. What ever happened to priorities?

December 13 by Evelyn J. Pringle Bush + Republicans + Amway = Fraud Amway, Republicans & That Old Time Religion Eric Scheibeler's book new, Merchants of Deception,* is a first hand account of the author's recruitment into the Amway cult, his rapid advancement as a recruiter of others, and his final awakening after many years of mind-dulling dedication to the cult ideology. The book evidences Eric's deep personal resolve to try and stop what happened to him from happening to others. For decades, Amway has used its political clout within the extreme Right Wing of the Republican party to gain access to foreign markets, obtain special tax breaks, and most importantly, to retain immunity from prosecution for pyramid scheme fraud. The giant MLM is able to generates funds all over the globe, simply by using some of those funds to buy protection against regulation and oversight. It has unprecedented influence with the current White House. But worst of all, it has the reach and ability to recruit, manipulate, and misinform millions of new people each year. The Amway Snow Job - How It Works Over the past 20 years, more than 10 million Americans have been lured into the trap of investing vast amounts of time and money in Amway's pyramid sales scheme. And each new recruit was subjected to its radical conservative propaganda campaign as a key component of the motivational training that their up-line recruiters insisted they must have in order to be successful with Amway. To that end, millions of Amway audiotapes, CDs and videos are sold each year. The main message they expound is that success is achieved by emulating the Amway beliefs and values, characterized by political conservatism, disdain for the poor, extreme distrust of government social programs, and adherence to the rules of right-wing Christianity. To date, there have been no studies done on the political leanings of recruits entering the Amway program. But it is known that many recruits who may not have embraced the radical right-wing agenda going in, adopt it soon after being exposed to Amway's indoctrination. If even half of the recruits believe the propaganda they are exposed to, it means millions of people are converted each year as a direct result of their involvement with the MLM. Eric is a good example of this kind of conversion. Before he came into Amway, politics had never been an issue with him, and he was not a deeply religious person. But he soon came to believe that he was dealing with people of great faith and integrity, in part because the tapes he was instructed to listen to. Unbeknownst to Eric, an educational process had begun that would eventually alter and control nearly all of his values and beliefs. As part of that process, he was instructed to (1) attend choreographed Amway rallies where it delivers its message, often over 2 or three days; (2) read politically charged books; (3) listen to hours of politically slanted audiotapes and voicemail messages; and (4) pay large amounts of money to listen to Right Wing Religious and Republican spokespersons at seminars around the nation. While attending these seminars, Eric began to learn about the supposed evils of liberalism and the Democratic Party and how the liberals wanted to take from the hardworking, honest people and give to the nonproductive members of society, who were only poor because they were lazy. Distributors were also pushed to contribute money to the campaigns of conservative Republicans who were brought in to speak. If they were not from their home state, they were urged to help get them elected anyway in order to make the whole country better. When speaking, top promoters constantly linked the Amway teachings to religion, with comments such as, When you're loyal to the upline, it's being loyal to God. It's being loyal to your husband and loyal to your children, by Amway Double Diamond Linda Harteis at a Ladies Meeting. When Republicans spoke at rallies, they were often introduced as great Americans, while their Democratic counterparts were portrayed as godless, anti-family, anti-business, and anti-success. Mother Jones magazine correctly described the Amway distributor force as "heavily influenced by the company's dual themes of Christian morality and free enterprise" and operating "like a private political army." A typical example of the kind of derogatory political messages that are broadcast to Amway members, is one sent by Dexter Yager a few years back. The entire message was a condemnation of Hillary Clinton, disguised as a prayer. At one point, Yager says, God, melt that woman's brain, and that was one of the milder prayer lines. The comments made by these people can only be described as bizarre. For instance, they claimed that women who chose a career over staying home and raising their children, either lacked values or were just plain stupid. They'd make other comments like, "Why do you think she's working, because she hates her kids?" According to Eric, these kinds of remarks were often followed with a disclaimer such as, "I certainly understand the bad position that these women are in. Some are forced into the workplace, because they are married to a man that just isn't a man." After a thorough brainwashing, Eric came to believe that Amway had given him and his wife the gift of membership in a group of like-minded people who believed in God, America, and the family. He reached the point where he bought into what co-founder DeVos claimed in his book, Believe! "This country was built on a religious heritage, and we had better get back to it. We had better start telling people that faith in God is the real strength of America!" DeVos wrote. The Bush Family & Religious Heathens Several members of the media have looked into the relationship between the two Bush Presidencies and members of the extreme Religious Right Wing. After reading up on that gang, the only thing I know for sure, is that there is not a single honest person in the whole bunch. First off, lets take a look at evangelist Doug Wead, a divorced Baptist Minister, and former Diamond distributer, who is still a regular speaker at Amway conventions. Wead was the first President Bush's liaison to the Christian Right and he later served as Special Assistant to the President in the first Bush White House. Time magazine referred to him as "the man who coined the phrase the compassionate conservative." He was linked to the second President Bush early on as well. US News and World Report described Wead as an "old friend and advisor" to George W Bush. In the book, First Son, Author and Dallas Morning News Reporter, Bill Mintuglio, said that Wead was a man who had spent years "preparing strategy reports" for both President Bush and GW. The book claims W was the family liaison to hard-edged conservatives and to Christian evangelical leaders, developing close ties to (among others) defeated ... congressional candidate Doug Wead, with his Amway and Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker connections. In 1998, W decided it was his turn. Within days of his reelection as governor, W was secretly planning to run for President, because, as he said, he felt certain he had been called. He was encouraged in this belief by evangelical friends like Doug Wead and by his mother, who called him the Chosen One," according to Kitty Kelly's book, the Family. Anticipating W's reelection, Wead had already written a memo encouraging him to run, You have been given a great opportunity, an opportunity that has been denied to many who have sought it. It is a gift that has rarely been extended. It might not ever be extended again, Wead wrote. Years earlier, Wead had lost his own Congressional bid after Republican Senator Barry Goldwater, threw his support behind Wead's Democratic opponent, and stunned the Christian community with the remark, "I don't think God should be sold for money." Goldwater was obviously a good judge of character and realized that it would be better to have a Democrat in office than a charlatan like Wead. And he was absolutely right, because as it turns out, Wead's past with Amway is even shadier than most people know. At one time, Wead and his ex-wife Gloria, were both Diamond distributors, sponsored by Dexter and Birdie Yager. Wead earned large sums of money by speaking at Amway functions throughout the Yager organization. Wead and another kingpin, Jean Godzich, eventually branched out and set up an Amway in France. In 1986, the French government began investigating it and decided the company was a dangerous mind-control cult, and a fraudulent business. Amway France terminated the distributorship of Godzich, from whose group most of the complaints had originated. So what do Wead and Godzich do next? They set up a new MLM in France, called Groupement or GEPM. Its product line consisted of Amway products, its business structure was identical to Amway France, and its cultic activities were just as blatant as they were in the first operation. After receiving numerous complaints about GEPM, French authorities moved in to shut it down, but this time it issued criminal arrest warrants, 13 for the company's distributors, and 2 for Godzich and Wead. Godzich took all the cash and fled the country and Wead never returned to France. This man is the same Doug Wead, who 2 years later, would become a White House Aide to the first President Bush, and spiritual adviser to the second. God help us!!! Some Religious Top Guns Need Extra Protection The Amway pyramid fraud scheme seems to offer steady employment. If you are being investigated or arrested in one country or state, all you have to do is move along to another and set up shop again. Defrocked religious zealots seem to get away with doing this time and time again. For example, Don Storms is an Executive Diamond with Amway. He is also an ex-minister, who spent 13 years traveling the country with a gospel quartet, before teaming up with Jim Bakker and becoming a senior vice president at the PTL Club. In 1979, he and wife Ruth started their Amway business. Today, Storms is a real estate developer, in addition to his Amway business, according to MLM Survivor.com on July 13, 1999. Don's buddy, Kevin Trudeau, is a prolific marketer, but with a vary shady past. He is a twice-convicted felon and has served time in prison for credit card fraud. The FTC has prosecuted him a couple times for concocting fraudulent infomercials and at one time or another, he has been under investigations by 18 state Attorneys General, and the US Postal Service. Trudeau was once involved with the MLM company, Nutrition for Life, Inc (NFLI). But that involvement came to an abrupt halt, after the SEC began investigating his recruitment practices. On April 17, 1996, the Illinois Attorney General filed a lawsuit against Trudeau, and his partner, for running an illegal pyramid scheme that was set up to peddle motivational books and tapes. The State of Michigan also ordered him to stop all marketing in that state related to his business the Trudeau Marketing Group (TMG). So what do the Ex-Pastor and Ex-Con have in common? Quixtar. Their Quixtar/Trudeau connection was revealed in a spam e-mail, which stated in part: "PLEASE CONTACT ME RIGHT AWAY! URGENT! URGENT! URGENT! DON'T LET THIS ONE GET AWAY FROM YOU. THE LARGEST, MOST EXPLOSIVE MLM OPPORTUNITY OF ALL TIME IS NOW UNDERWAY. IT IS UNIMAGINABLY HUGE. HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY ARE BEHIND IT, HUGE CORPORATIONS LIKE MICROSOFT AND IBM,. . . "IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU RESERVE YOUR POSITION NOW IN THE TRUDEAU TRAINING TEAM ORGANIZATION, WHICH NOW WITHOUT QUESTION THE MOST UNBELIEVABLE MLM MARKETING GROUP IN HISTORY. KEVIN TRUDEAU, WHO IS THE HUGE IN THE TV INFOMERCIAL BUSINESS WORLDWIDE, AND HIS ORGANIZATION OF INFORMERCIAL DISTRIBUTORS (TO WHICH I BELONG) ARE BUILDING AN EXCLUSIVE MARKETING ORGANIZATION IN COOPERATION WITH AND DIRECTLY DOWNLINE FROM THE BIGGEST LEADERS IN THE NETWORK MARKETING INDUSTRY TODAY, THE JODY VICTOR, DEXTER YAGER, DON STORMS, BLAINE ATHORN GROUP." How's that for Amway name-dropping? A little research by MLM Survivor.com, revealed the following: On June 30, 1999, Trudeau placed an announcement on the TMG's voicemail system. It seems that his long-time buddy and ex-business associate, Blaine Athorne, (who fired him after his 1989 credit card fraud) hired the TMG in an exclusive relationship with his Amway/Quixtar organization. Trudeau briefly noted his earlier job with network marketing, but claimed it was the changing dynamics in the company, which made it impossible for him to continue as a distributor. "I no longer could promote that business. . . [because of] disagreement in management." Oh really? Could that disagreement have had something to do with his conviction for pyramid fraud, or the $1 million fine that he had to pay as a result of his infomercial fraud? Or maybe it was about the Postal Service investigation or the umpteen investigations by state Attorneys General. Who knows? About Quixtar, Trudeau says: "I believe in my heart of hearts is the ultimate network marketing opportunity of all times. . ." One of the claims he makes on behalf of Quixtar is: "You'll be able to buy hundreds of thousands and eventually millions of products at very good pricing -- similar to Sam's Club." Then comes the big push! "I have chosen after multiple meetings with corporate executives, top distributors and lawyers that it would be in the best interests of everyone if I did not become a distributor in Amway or Quixtar. I have formed a company called the Trudeau Training Team. The Trudeau Training Team has signed an exclusive marketing and sales arrangement with Storms Enterprises Inc. . . Don Storms has personally sponsored my long-time friend and business associate Blaine Athorne. Blaine Athorne is going to be the founding distributor in our downline organization. . . My company has signed an exclusive marketing and sales training contract with Blaine Athorne's distributorship and downline, and Don Storms. "Many of the marketing strategies that I've employed in the past will be utilized in this organization." What marketing strategy is he referring to here? Is there any other, besides the old standard run-of-the-mill pyramid scheme? Trudeau says Don Storms is "one of the greatest network marketers of all time," and Storms says, "Kevin Trudeau's training [is] the best in the world." So here it is for all to see, a prime example of the quality of ethical and legal behavior we can expect from Amway/Quixtar and its distributors. More Secretive Religious Groups Amway founder Richard DeVos is a member of the Council for National Policy (CNP). A group described as "the Most Powerful Conservative Group You've Never Heard Of," by ABC News in a May, 2004 report, that noted the group's extraordinary secrecy. If you want to do a little Republican name-dropping, just recite the names of the 500 or so members of the CNP. They include Christian Coalition president Pat Robertson; political strategist Ralph Reed; Sen Jesse Helms; Congressmen d**k Armey and Tom Delay; Gun Owners of America head Larry Pratt; Oliver North; Texas billionaire Nelson Bunker Hunt; Focus on the Family head James Dobson; and former presidential candidate Gary Bauer. "According to a membership roster ... other notable former and current members include: Attorney General John Ashcroft and Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson. (Both are no longer members); Christian businessmen like Holland and Jeffrey Coors, of the brewing company; two of fundamentalist Christianity's most prominent end-of-the-world theologists: John Ankerberg, and Dave Breese," ABC noted. DeVos is also a major supporter of a right-wing, Christian non-profit entity called Gospel Communications International, which has annual revenues of $6.7 million. Its Board of Directors reads like a Who's Who of Amway kingpins, with DeVos as Chairman and his son, Doug DeVos, as Vice-Chairman. Out of 15 Directors, 10 are from Amway. Launched in 1995, Gospel.com, claims to be the largest Christian website on the Internet. In 1999, it claimed that it had more than 780 million hits from people in 216 different countries and territories around the world. During 1998, Gospel was responsible for showing videos and films to over 200 million people in schools, churches, homes, prisons, hospitals, and on television. To give you an idea of what kind of information was contained in those films, consider that 2 books that were being promoted on its website as of Sept 14, 2004, included, From Reveler to Revelation - the Journey of President George W Bush; and A Greater Freedom: Stories of Faith from Operation Iraqi Freedom, by Oliver North. And of course no religious nutcase tale would be complete if Jerry Falwell wasnt mentioned. Not to worry, ole Jerry is in the loop. Amway Kingpin, Dexter Yager, not only financially supports Falwell's Liberty University, one of Yager's sons sits on the University's board of directors. Dexter Yager is such a prince, that years ago, he even let Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker broadcast their religious show from his home, after they lost the PTL ministry, according to Mother Jones Magazine. What a guy. So How Much Money Are We Talking About? How much money are we talking about? Well first of all, Amway perks are not limited to money contributions. For example, when describing the events at the 2000 Republican Convention, the New York Times wrote, For the party's top underwriters, there will be an array of gold-plated events in Philadelphia, including cocktails with Gen. Colin L. Powell and an evening cruise on the Delaware River aboard the Enterprise,' the yacht owned by Richard M. DeVos, the Amway founder, who is a Bush supporter. Four years later on Sept 2, 2004, the Detroit Free Press described another boat ride. Insiders were feted aboard d**k and Betsy DeVos' yacht at the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York, as well as Jay Van Andel's lavish 169-footer. Besides yachts trips, we are looking at a whole lot of money being passed around. For example, in 1994, Amway and Anschutz were the top two donors, each giving $250,000 toward a $2.5-million soft money contribution to the RNC. It was the largest single political donation on record. In return, the Amway big-wigs are treated very well. On July 18, 1996, DeVos was honored at a $3 million Republican fundraiser, where keynote speaker, Bob Dole, paid tribute to him. A week later it was reported that Amway had donated $1.3 million to the San Diego Convention and Visitors Bureau, to pay for Republican infomercials airing on Pat Robertson's Family Channel during the convention, according to the Sept/Oct 1996, issue of Mother Jones magazine. Although the Democrats filed a complaint and blocked the payoff, it demonstrates how one hand washes the other when it comes to Amway, the Religious Right Wing, and the Republican Party. In the Bush/Cheney campaign 2000, Betsy DeVos, daughter-in-law of Richard DeVos, became a so-called Bush Pioneer by raising over $100,000. And overall, in 2000, Amway was the second largest contributor of soft money to the RNC, with donations totaling $1,138,500, second only to Reynolds Tobacco. In 2004, the 527 Progress for America received a bundle. The latest crop of donors includes Amway founders Richard DeVos and Jay Van Andel, who each chipped in $2 million, reports Newsweek, The Secret Money War, Sept 20, 2004. So what does Amway get in return for all this money? A lot. But most importantly, it allows Amway to operate with political protection against criminal investigations that would lead to the collapse of not only Amway, but the entire MLM industry. Pyramid Scheme Alert Takes On The MLM In June 2000, the first consumer advocacy group was formed that focuses directly on pyramid scheme fraud. Pyramid Scheme Alert, Inc (PSA) is a non-profit organization, founded by three activist/authors, with support and encouragement from attorneys, former regulators and private citizens all over the world. PSA Directors, Robert FitzPatrick and Susanna Perkins, have written an excellent white paper report entitled, "The Amway Industry," which details the damaging and corrupting influence of the MLM industry on consumers and democracy. It is by far, the most thorough and comprehensive report available for people looking for information about the MLM industry. ** PSA also has a website that is full of information, which receives more than 150,000 hits per month. The organization provides answers to a stream of consumer inquiries each day. Several of its directors have served as expert witnesses in private and government sponsored court proceedings involving MLM companies. PSA's findings has been referenced, quoted, and featured in reports on NBC, ABC, BBC and in many newspapers and magazines around the world. It was surely a welcome sight for consumers. For decades now, people have went up against Amway with very little success, and for good reason. Amway attorneys routinely threaten website publishers with libel suits. State Attorney General offices say they are too small and financially strapped to take on MLMs in court, and appeals to the FTC have consistently gone unanswered. Amway Will Be In Business Until Bush Leaves Office In light of the above, you can bet that Amway will not be closing its doors anytime soon. Its illegal scheme will remain in tact for at least as long as Bush is in the White House. But there is one oddity about the Bush-Amway gang that Eric recently pointed out. In most cases of fraud, crooks don't steal from their own. So this makes Amway unique, because it pays the current administration to protect a multi-billion dollar fraud that targets Conservative Christian Republicans almost exclusively. Eric said he wondered what kind of animals would eat their own? If my memory serves me correctly, I think pigs do that.

You asked me where my wife is in all this. Well when she's not working right by my side or going to her or my many doctors appointments, she sometimes puts in some time helping out at the School for the Blind and Visually Impaired. You see she has retinitis pigmentosa. She has been featured on local television advocating for more accessability for the handicaped (very succesfuly).She has also been featured on films promoting the School for the Blind and Visually Impaired as an example of how valuable a part of society a handicapped person can be. She is a kind and loving person who supports me and my beliefs completely. She is also a business owner in her own right.She doesn't need disability payments because she is productive as am I.She laughs with me when she reads the posts here. You see, she bought herself some software from Freedom Scientific that reads to her either from the internet or anything scanned on her scanner. She can also dictate e-mails or give the computer voice commands.She also helps out at the local food bank as this area has been hit hard by the Republican administrations wasteful and wrongful ways. Alaska is suffering like every other state. We have a Republican Governor who apppointed his own daughter to the senate seat he vacated. And somehow in the last election she actually kept her seat.Our elections are overseen by the LT. Governor who is also a Republican. We also have a Republican Attorney General.The head of the Republican Party here has been fined for ethics violations three times including the highest fine in state history.Currently, our Governor and our Attorney General are being investigated in a clear case of conflict of interest.So, you see we have alot on our plates right now as we are activists as well as business owners.So, please don't feel as if my wife is snubbing you, she's just too busy to do more than laugh at you, April, James et al. But she and I both wish you and yours a Happy Holiday Season.

You're a libertarian and you voted for Kerry? Oh well. Adam, I didn't say that you personally supported those laws that are blatantly unconstitutional. I'm just trying to make my point. A patriot is someone who loves their nation, supports it, and defends its values. After seeing your previous posts I want to believe you are a patriot but having you vote for that gourd Kerry makes me wonder a bit. William in Texas - That article that you posted regarding Amway is just another fine example of the truth: there is no rule of law in America. When communists and nazis take over, the first thing to go is the rule of law. Sadly, the problems in this country go far beyond politics. It is the deterioration of basic human trust and morality that is destroying our country. Alas, the GOP is mostly to blame for most of the problems besetting the USA in the last fifty years or so. They passed most of the draconian laws that are stunting the growth of the people. They were also the political party that pushed for the Federal Reserve act, the same financial institution responsable for running our economy into the ground. Don't think the Democrats or Greens are any better. Besides, the only true republicans are libertarians. Anyone else is a jobber or a self-righteous wannabe who doesn't know our nation very well.

No I've never been to prison. But you seem to be a little bit too familiar with the whole dropping the soap thing. Do you still get love letters from all your "BUBBA" JAILHOUSE HUUSBANDS? I REPEAT I AM AN HONORABLY DISCHARGED VETERAN. I am a disabled vet. I am a patriot. I love my country, it's my government that I fear! Anyone who sees what is happening to our great nation and doesn't at least speak out is a sheep at best and a piece of crap coward at worst. Which one are you? I'd be willing to bet when you gave up that little girl blue bird uniform, you traded it for a less than honorable discharge. Maybe the only real discharge was dripping out of you from too much soap dropping.LOL!

I don't have any idea why you would think I believe any of those laws are supportable, reasonable or even constitutional.And the list of bad laws that allow government interference goes on too long to list here. The only reason I didn't vote for the honorable Libertarian candidate from Texas is that he was not the candidate that had a chance to defeat Bush. I surely did not want a Democrat in office. I just thought he couldn't be as dangerous to America and the rest of the world. If the mainstream media and the general public took the time to learn about what the Libertarian party stands for, we might be able to make some positive change in this the Greatest Nation the world has ever known. But unfortunatly, the average American is politicaly retarded. A third party would get the business as usual polititians off their asses and do some good for a change. They may even start to earn their outrageous pay and benefit packages. Wouldn't that be refreshing? DALE, it's good that April allowed you to speak out.Now that's refreshing. LOL!

I am curious, Jeff as to how it is you believe that the Pell grant is unpatriotic? The reason I ask is that I have a vested interest in this particular grant since it is helping to pay for my education. Now, I as I understand it, the Pell Grant gives money to underprivledged students so that they may offset the costs of higher education. This grant is open to all students whose EFC (expected family contribution) is under $2000. Now, that may seem like a bad idea to some, but to me it's good. If this grant were not available, I would be unable to go to college, as would about 90% of students across the nation. I would appreciate any input from you, Jeff. Also, what the heck is wrong with DOE, they are doing a huge investigation, that is greatly helping my school (fraud issues on behalf of a employee), if they just blew it off, like they could have, the school would have been closed, but they decided to investigate the allegations instead. Just another question I had for you. Look forward to hearing back soon. By the way, with the evidence shown for it, it's kind of silly not to wear a seatbelt, itsn't it. Sure it's your choice, by why wouldn't you?

I am curious, Jeff as to how it is you believe that the Pell grant is unpatriotic? The reason I ask is that I have a vested interest in this particular grant since it is helping to pay for my education. Now, I as I understand it, the Pell Grant gives money to underprivledged students so that they may offset the costs of higher education. This grant is open to all students whose EFC (expected family contribution) is under $2000. Now, that may seem like a bad idea to some, but to me it's good. If this grant were not available, I would be unable to go to college, as would about 90% of students across the nation. I would appreciate any input from you, Jeff. Also, what the heck is wrong with DOE, they are doing a huge investigation, that is greatly helping my school (fraud issues on behalf of a employee), if they just blew it off, like they could have, the school would have been closed, but they decided to investigate the allegations instead. Just another question I had for you. Look forward to hearing back soon. By the way, with the evidence shown for it, it's kind of silly not to wear a seatbelt, itsn't it. Sure it's your choice, by why wouldn't you?

I am curious, Jeff as to how it is you believe that the Pell grant is unpatriotic? The reason I ask is that I have a vested interest in this particular grant since it is helping to pay for my education. Now, I as I understand it, the Pell Grant gives money to underprivledged students so that they may offset the costs of higher education. This grant is open to all students whose EFC (expected family contribution) is under $2000. Now, that may seem like a bad idea to some, but to me it's good. If this grant were not available, I would be unable to go to college, as would about 90% of students across the nation. I would appreciate any input from you, Jeff. Also, what the heck is wrong with DOE, they are doing a huge investigation, that is greatly helping my school (fraud issues on behalf of a employee), if they just blew it off, like they could have, the school would have been closed, but they decided to investigate the allegations instead. Just another question I had for you. Look forward to hearing back soon. By the way, with the evidence shown for it, it's kind of silly not to wear a seatbelt, itsn't it. Sure it's your choice, by why wouldn't you?

Congratulations! Never before on the Rip-Off Report has a single thread contained so many childish accusations, name-callings, and outrageous insults. Some responders seem to have forgotten that, under our system of government, everyone, including foreigners, has a right to express an opinion. A magnificent facet of our country is that we have the freedom to disagree! Such variances of opinion should not be met with hoodlum-like attacks. For that matter, the Rip-Off Report, as I understand it, is not strictly an American site. It is a world consumer site. Everyone, regardless of nationality, has the freedom, within the site rules, to say as they please. As I have long understood the nature of this web site, it exists for the purpose of consumer reporting of scams, etc. One sane person earlier attempted to explain that this entire raving thread seems quite inappropriate. Now it has become so disgusting that it tends to diminish the overall value of the Rip-Off Report for its intended purpose.

Hi everyone, I found this very interesting article. I highly recommend that everyone read it, then get the book "Merchants of Deception", by Eric Scheibeler. It is available for free at his website, but you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader, to download it. The article... ------------------------------ December 7 by Evelyn J. Pringle Bush + Republicans + Amway = Fraud 1st in a Series on Amway Consumer Fraud Scandal Former Amway insider, Eric Scheibeler, has written a must read new book called "Merchants Of Deception." This one time member of the Amway motivational cult has turned whistleblower and FBI witness and boy does he have some tales to tell. In the book, Scheibeler exposes an Enron sized fraud with Amway raking In billions of dollars annually, and the billionaire founding families being the largest soft money contributors to the GOP, with funds that have been generated from what may turn out to be one of the largest consumer fraud scandals in history, perpetrated by the world's largest multi-level marketing company (MLM). The former Federal Auditor has also has a website, MerchantsOfDeception.com, that reveals the close ties between Amway and Republicans. As a life long conservative, Scheibeler was discouraged to both discover and document that "the GOP seems to have been hijacked by political payoffs from an industry that is rife with consumer deception, and bogus 'business opportunity' selling." He goes on to say that it's "time this secret influence peddling and the harm it causes consumers and our democracy are revealed. I was on the inside for nine years. I saw it with my own eyes. I also have the internal documents, financials, and the audio and video tapes to prove it." Merchants of Deception exposes the company's deceptive marketing of phony business opportunities and other secret scams by Amway's top promoters to sell so-called success tools to unsuspecting recruits all over the world. It also contains first hand accounts of the Kingpin's fraudulent recruitment practices that have led to an endless stream of lawsuits. Scheibeler & Dateline Team Up In Sting Operation In addition to writing a book and setting up a web site, Scheibeler provided key documentation for the May 7, 2004, NBC Dateline program that televised an expose of the secretive and illegal pyramid business run by Amway & Quixtar kingpins. During its investigation, Dateline smuggled hidden cameras into recruitment meetings in order to document the company's deceptive claims and promises, and to expose its multi-million dollar 'secret' business. The expose verified the common allegation made in numerous consumer lawsuits, that the company is merely a front for a hidden pyramid business based on selling books, tapes, and registrations to seminars and rallies to new recruits, with nearly all participants losing money. According to Dateline, the FBI and the IRS are conducting investigations into the scheme. Republicans Will Do Anything For A Buck Amway's billionaire founders, Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel, have been the largest soft money contributors to the GOP on and off for the past 20 years. Together, DeVos and VanAndel gave $4,000,000 to a 527, just 45 days prior to the last election. And you can bet that they demand (and get) a bang for every red cent. Scheibeler's book reveals how GOP donations and corporate promotion have resulted in a trade off for political protection and tax reduction benefits for the MLM. His web site provides a goldmine of documentation to back up his claims, including audiotapes. By going to the site, you can hear Newt Gingrich promoting Amway at a large event, or you can listen to audio clips of then Texas Governor George W Bush. There is even a clip sent by high-level kingpin distributors from a private meeting within the White House. Scheibeler tells how some members of the GOP have been paid as much as $100,000 for a single promotional appearance at an Amway seminar. The list of high-paid Republican speakers who have appeared at rallies over the years, reads like a list of who's who in the GOP. It includes former Presidents George Bush, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford and former Vice Presidents Bob Dole and Dan Quayle, along with other GOP heavyweights like Gingrich, Oliver North, Senator Rick Santorum and even the latest SE Regional Chairman for the Bush-Cheney '04 campaign, Ralph Reed. Scheibeler reveals just how much Republican law makers have given back to Amway in return for the large speaking fees and contributions, which includes tax breaks and a blanket of immunity from investigations into the company's illegal business practices. In hindsight, it is more than evident that the money bought a whole lot of regulatory protection for Amway. Merchant's of Deception provides a good example of how the racket works in the case of Newt Gingrich. His speaking fees are reported to be in the $50,000 range. The books explains how, after accepting speaking fees, Gingrich arranged a reported last-minute modification in a comprehensive tax bill that allegedly provided a $283 million tax break to just one company -- Amway. One report called the tax break a $283 million payoff. "The payoff for Amway was not in the original House or Senate version of the tax bill. House Speaker Newt Gingrich intervened at the last minute to help get the special tax break inserted in the bill." (San Antonio Express-News Aug 12,1997). Who Else Is Involved In The Amway Scandal? Back in 1997, syndicated columnist Molly Ivins described Amway's Lobbying power in Congress, "Amway has its own caucus in Congress. Yes, the Amway caucus. Five Republican House members are also Amway distributors: Reps. Sue Myrick of North Carolina, Jon Christensen of Nebraska, d**k Chrysler of Michigan, Richard Rombo of California and John Ensign of Nevada. Their informal caucus meets several times a year with Amway bigwigs to discuss policy matters affecting the company, including China's trade status," she said. Ivins also noted that, "House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, a onetime Amway salesman, also remains close to the company." Which figures, because everybody knows that if there's a buck to be made from a scam, DeLay is sure to be lurking around in the shadows somewhere nearby. And the fund-raising power of this pyramid company is not limited to the company's top dogs. The downline distributors are often pressured to produce large sums of money by soliciting small contributions from a great number of people. And that money can add up fast, considering that in 2000, Amway reportedly had over 700,000 distributors. In 1997, a request from Congresswoman Sue Myrick to Amway Kingpin, Dexter Yager, for help in her fund raising events, increased her campaign war chest by more than $20,000 with small contributions from distributors. The next year, another fundraiser aimed at distributors brought in over $35,000. W and Amway Are Tight When it comes to W and Amway, it's a give and take situation. They mutually provide "quid pro quo" favors to each other. For instance, during the 2000 campaign, W used the company's voicemail network to reach thousands of Kingpin Dexter Yager's distributors with a personalized message from none other than Bush himself. Then last summer, when Amway co-founder Rich DeVos attended a dinner party at the home of a friend in Grand Rapids, MI, he got seated right across the dinner table from W, according to the Orlando Sentinel. DeVos isn't shy about discussing his contributions to Bush. "People ask Me sometimes why I support Bush, "DeVos said, "I just tell them, 'Because When I walk into the room, he says, "Hi, Rich." ' I've been a friend to the family for a long time." "I give the max," DeVos said proudly. "People talk about buying access, but all I can tell you is that politicians know the people who support them," he told the Sentinel. And DeVos ain't lying, he has been very generous to W over the years. The $2,000 campaign Limit that he gives directly to Bush, is but a fraction of what he actually contributes. His wife, kids, and their spouses, also make large donations to W and other members of the GOP. During the 2000 election cycle, DeVos, his wife, and son contributed a combined sum of $760,000 to Republican candidates and causes, and according to FEC records, Amway itself contributed a whopping $1.3 million, with every dime going to Republicans. Favored politicians are also aware that the Amway perks don't necessarily end once they leave office. For example, DeVos has remained such great friends with President Ford over the years, that when Ford travels, it's often on DeVos' private jet. How Much Does W Protect Amway - Let Me Count The Ways Scheibeler's reporting provides a well documented expose of the Bush administration's direct involvement in the regulatory protection of Amway, and verifies that DeVos does get a lot of bang for every buck. As we all know, there are rampant cases of improper influence in the Bush White House. Right off the top my head, energy and drug companies come to mind. But Amway is different; its primary goal is not merely to rip off tax payers. Its to literally protect its very existence. The MLM completely relies on political protection to prevent it from being shut down by regulators and law enforcement. And Bush has demonstrated that he was more than willing to engage in the protection racket. On his web site, Scheibeler is highly critical of the FTC, and its current chairman, Bush appointee, Timothy Muris, mainly because of the agency's utter refusal to properly investigate and/or prosecute pyramid schemes, despite the overwhelming number of well documented complaints that have been filed with the agency. Without a doubt, Amway's business practices are flagrant violations of FTC rules. Three separate federal court rulings have defined these types of pyramid sales as illegal schemes, and there are any number of websites on the internet that document the financial harm caused to millions of people by Amway's deceptive recruitment schemes. Yet, the Bush administration has consistently ignored the company's violations. Scheibeler's web site attracts testimonials from Amway victims all over the world. Complaints have come in from Australia, New Zealand, UK, Germany, France, Canada, and Slovakia. And the whole world watches as the FTC turns a blind eye to the blatant exportation of this "American" fraud. In fact, it could be said that Bush has aided and abetted Amway's criminal behavior. To begin with, appointing Tim Muris to head the FTC was the equivalent of setting a fox loose in the chicken coup. Before his appointment, Muris was as an attorney with the antitrust division of the law firm Howrey, Simon, Arnold and White, LLP. And guess who the firm's antitrust division counts as one of its largest clients? Amway. So here we have it, while Muris was at Howrey, and while he was in charge of the FTC, his former law partners were representing Amway in a class action lawsuit initiated by a former Amway distributor that alleged that the MLM's recruitment program was an illegal pyramid scheme. And there's more. The MLM's influence with the FTC doesn't end with Muris, it extends beyond him. During the Clinton administration, a company named Equinox (an Amway clone), was prosecuted for violating the pyramid scheme fraud statutes. One of Equinox's expert witnesses was David Scheffman, and he testified against the FTC and defended the scheme. Scheffman claimed that the company's business model was legitimate and not a pyramid scheme, based on the assertion that company operated just like Amway. In the end, Equinox lost the court battle and was shut down, but guess where Scheffman ended up? Muris made him the Chief Economist at the FTC. Does the information above indicate any conflict of interest violations within the Bush administration? Probably not, since the term conflict of interest was obviously deleted from the White House vocabulary when Bush moved in. ------------------------------- This article is the first in an investigative series covering the Amway Scandal. You have the opportunity, for a brief period, to obtain a free download of the entire book Merchants of Deception at MerchantsOfDeception.com. Review the web site and see the same documentation that the FBI, the Criminal Investigation Division of the IRS, NBC Dateline, the PA and NY Attorney General's Office, foreign governments, and the FTC have had for some time. Thanks for letting me share. I can hardly wait for all the ignorant insults that will inevitably come my way via, the pro-Bushers.

Okay, Adam I agree maybe I was a bit too harsh with that last posting. It's just that there are many false patriots (tratriots) out there and it's so difficult sometimes to tell what one's real intentions are. Want to know what a real patriot is? I have the official definition from the Websters College dictionary: patriot : "a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests" Here is why Bush is an inept and "dishonorable" false patriot (tratriot): 1. He hates America. His lies and actions (or inactions) speak for themselves. 2. He does not support America. He has wasted not only huge sums of money for frivilous and unconstitutional programs and pork spending but has done nothing about the Social Security scam, the Federal Reserve, the DOE, the DOC, the FCC, etc... along with all the other tyrannical regulatory agencies that really have no business telling free human beings how to live and act. 3. He does not defend America. The only thing even close to defending America that Bush has done is letting the ban on assault rifles and machine guns expire and even most of the Republican Party supports strict gun control. Any of the young people gullible enough to sign up to fight in Iraq can also attest to Bush's unwillingness to protect our nation: body armor and armored vehicles are in short supply and Bush lets them fight without it. Now you people see why Bush is a false partriot? Many people claim to be libertarian but are libertarian in name only. They claim to support freedom but will subdue it for their own personal gain. The Libertarian Party is a good example of this. Many of the libertarians hold positions of power in many states but they often will not eliminate their own jobs (even though it would follow the party's philosophy) because they only follow their greedy desire to satisfy themselves at the expense of society. In a nutshell, they're modern day Federalists. They want all kinds of freedom yet they want federal power to exercise the minimalist government ideology. They're second worst in terms of corruption, follow only by modern day Loyalists (Democrats/Greens and Republicans/Constitution Party members). You think you're a patriot? If you say so and yet you support the following laws and programs, you're a hypocrite. Federal seatbelt laws Drinking laws Federal Pell grants for education FCC authority Gun laws in general Patriot Act (an oxymoron if you read the actual act) There are many more but I can't list them all. Hopefully that clears things up for us all.

Adam, You wanted a response from me, you've now got it. It is none of your d**n business why I have or have not served our great country. So get off your high a*s right now. My wife is no b???h, she has gone above and beyond what most anyone else in this world would do for those with much less. She is extremely well respected by business associates, friends, families, and so on. I don't like Bush, I don't like anything about Bush, so who here is making the accusations? Tell me something, Adrunk, why are you able to respond to each person, sometimes before their posts are made? As I read some interesting facts that another poster has made on you, calling you a troll and a Shawnagunk, whatever, I found it quite interesting to see that these points made are seen here, on this post. Maybe you are this Shawna', maybe you are a troll, you seem to be able to get through on issues before anyone else. Huh? I've stayed off this specific post as I felt there was no place I needed to add my opinions too, not because my wife is a "ballbuster." My wife supports anything and everything I do or have done. Tell us something, Where is your "wife" in all this? Do you even have one, I can't honestly believe any woman would want a man that acts the way you do. You have gone above and beyond any way nessesary to start something with me. Do you feel big and bad as you sit behind a computer, let's see you approach any of us on the streets, you couldn't and wouldn't! Don't pretend to be something you're obviously not! Like my wife has made clear to you, when you can get on this site, like all of us, and act like a human being, then maybe we'll take you more seriously!

Adam, You wanted a response from me, you've now got it. It is none of your d**n business why I have or have not served our great country. So get off your high a*s right now. My wife is no b???h, she has gone above and beyond what most anyone else in this world would do for those with much less. She is extremely well respected by business associates, friends, families, and so on. I don't like Bush, I don't like anything about Bush, so who here is making the accusations? Tell me something, Adrunk, why are you able to respond to each person, sometimes before their posts are made? As I read some interesting facts that another poster has made on you, calling you a troll and a Shawnagunk, whatever, I found it quite interesting to see that these points made are seen here, on this post. Maybe you are this Shawna', maybe you are a troll, you seem to be able to get through on issues before anyone else. Huh? I've stayed off this specific post as I felt there was no place I needed to add my opinions too, not because my wife is a "ballbuster." My wife supports anything and everything I do or have done. Tell us something, Where is your "wife" in all this? Do you even have one, I can't honestly believe any woman would want a man that acts the way you do. You have gone above and beyond any way nessesary to start something with me. Do you feel big and bad as you sit behind a computer, let's see you approach any of us on the streets, you couldn't and wouldn't! Don't pretend to be something you're obviously not! Like my wife has made clear to you, when you can get on this site, like all of us, and act like a human being, then maybe we'll take you more seriously!

Adam, You wanted a response from me, you've now got it. It is none of your d**n business why I have or have not served our great country. So get off your high a*s right now. My wife is no b???h, she has gone above and beyond what most anyone else in this world would do for those with much less. She is extremely well respected by business associates, friends, families, and so on. I don't like Bush, I don't like anything about Bush, so who here is making the accusations? Tell me something, Adrunk, why are you able to respond to each person, sometimes before their posts are made? As I read some interesting facts that another poster has made on you, calling you a troll and a Shawnagunk, whatever, I found it quite interesting to see that these points made are seen here, on this post. Maybe you are this Shawna', maybe you are a troll, you seem to be able to get through on issues before anyone else. Huh? I've stayed off this specific post as I felt there was no place I needed to add my opinions too, not because my wife is a "ballbuster." My wife supports anything and everything I do or have done. Tell us something, Where is your "wife" in all this? Do you even have one, I can't honestly believe any woman would want a man that acts the way you do. You have gone above and beyond any way nessesary to start something with me. Do you feel big and bad as you sit behind a computer, let's see you approach any of us on the streets, you couldn't and wouldn't! Don't pretend to be something you're obviously not! Like my wife has made clear to you, when you can get on this site, like all of us, and act like a human being, then maybe we'll take you more seriously!

David plesae get off it. Obviously you have not listend to the rest of us who do not harbor HATE against other peoples opinions and want to have an intelligent discussion on this forum. And no I will not leave the country and pick up an AK47 to fight in Iraq just because you are so delussioned to think that only YOUR vote counts. And thanks Christopher for posting. You are absolutely right that your initial post resulted in a lot of hate and not enough debate. I am sure that if the editors on this site were really doing their job, then half of this crap would've been deleted anyway. And as for you Adam... I was defending you, but man you are digging yourself in a deep hole. Sometimes you have some interesting points to make, but no one is listening because you present yourself in the wrong way. Calling names and pointing out April's condition is no business of ours and you have no right continue to make it an issue with this forum, when it has nothing to do with the Iraqi war, why we went, or 9/11. You have gone overboard a little too much...

You have some nerve. How dare you rant and rave about acussations made about someone, when you have been made a foul of by Robin, Tim, me, etc. etc. etc. You claim that anyone who is against you is either a traitor, a sissy, uneducated, on welfare, etc. You use horrendous language, etc. As anyone can simply read. You have come to this site with absolutely no real intentions but to tick off as many people as you possibly can. No matter how many times your put in your place, you still come back with the same BS. By the way, before you go on and on about someone's spelling, you'd better check yours. That really makes my point! My husband busts his a*s day in and day out, unlike you. He has much better things to do then sit here and BS with you all day long because you have no life. You preach about how your this and that, then when confronted as to things you've previously stated, you back down and that person is whatever you want to call them that day. As someone else has pointed out, you are nothing more than an insect, a troll on this site, nothing more, nothing less. Guess that's why you disappeared from other reports. When you get a life, stop abussing your IV drips and have something other then abussing people on this site, then and only then will people take you seriously! Maybe you should finally tend to those kids you claim to have such control over, LOL!

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

You're about the most delusional, paranoid bag of wind I've ever seen. This forum is not the place for you to piss and moan about politics. The only reason anyone responds to you at all is out of disgust at your poisonous drivel aimed at our government and our President, repeating tired wornout fantasies about the honorable Bush family made up by your fellow left wing freaks who continue to fail in their attempt to subvert the United States Government by doing things like sue in Federal court to win the White House. You and all of your s**t head commie bastards really should leave the country and tie a rag on your head, go to Iraq and pick up an ak-47, start running around yelling that dumb a*s allahu ackbar thing, and just take a pot shot at our troops to let them know how you feel about our government, so our devil dogs there can promptly remove your collective dumb asses from the gene pool.

Adam, did you miss the "act intelligent" part? Aren't you the same c*m-bubble that claims to be a libetarian but voted for a different party?Your loyalty to your party is probably the same you showed your unit when you were wounded, but playing with G.I. Joes isn't real anyways. What did you do in the service? If I tried to listen to anything you had to say, I probably would end up like a whiny a*s coward too. I don't think you were ever in the military, I think it was prison. And everyone knows that "Bubba" most likely had fun with your big mouth. Was it fun picking up the soap for everyone even though it didn't happen in the showers? People like you make me laugh. You have your views like evryone else but for some reason(your small manhood), you have to be beligerent and act tough. And after you read this, you'll get angry and think you are responding with something really witty. BUT, in reality, you are just giving us another oppurtunity to laugh at you. Thanks and I hope you drown the next time you go ice fishing.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

I don't get why you would call me a false patriot.Any true patriot speaks out against his govenment when it does something stupid. As for coveting my neighbors property, i have no idea where you got that idea. I am a liberterian and and proud and patriotic American veteran. You however, leave me shaking my head at your lack of logic.

you still make unfounded accusations about me,but that isn't my problem with you. You seem to think you are either more intelligent or better informed than anyone that disagrees with your mispelled and completely inane remarks.Let me inform you, violence and death do not teach people to behave in a civilized manner. As a matter of fact , it can only cause problems. You seem to support this stupid war in Iraq. Yet you refuse to tell us why your sissy husband has noy volunteered to fight there. Don't you ever speak ill of me or any other disabled veteran again. You have absoluitly no right or knowledge of wich you speak. And I still think Dale is a reall sissy if he doesn't have the testicels to back up his remarks. But I'm sure thats the way you like it April. YOU are one ballbreaking b***h who should be on the front lines.Give Dale a break you shrew!And another thing, if you can't serve due to SLE, you really don't have anything to say on this matter,do you? Give Dale a break, he might be one hell of a lot more man than you would ever want him to be

Are you ashamed that your husband is a sissy non-combatant weasel boy? If he is, it's probably because you never let him leave the house with his testicles in his own possesion. You have made many false accusations about me over the last few months. However not one of them was true or even spelled corectly. People like you make it very easy to point out what a lack of education can do to a person. Thank goodness, my children are learning from me and not you. You are obviously a whaked out shrew of a woman and your poor husband, Dale just doesn't have the cajones to reign you in.I'd be willing to bet that Dale would gladly go to Iraq just to get away from your nasty contentious attitude.Of course he won't be able to come online and agree, because you won't let him have the testicles long enough to speak his own mind.

I am the original poster of this report and just wanted to say a few (well, maybe more than a few) things. This is the first time in probably a year that I have read the thread. I swore off responding after so many (some, over and over) resorted to ridiculous name calling and hatful personal attacks. It, sadly, continues to be a meeting place of the internet-heroe motor mouths with nothing constuctive to say other than "Bin-Christopher Strikes Again" or "I hope your husband gets drafted and dies". Are you kidding me? I am still, however, amazed at the debate and the passion of many posters and responders. Thank you to the many international visitors for your thoughts, it's great to know that you all have your varying opinions and are willing to express them. Special thanks to the gentleman from South Africa for your thoughtful comments. You are right when you say our country and Constitution are beautiful things. I hope you understand that the comments of those here that are nothing more or less than mindless verbal attacks by esteemless automatons do not reflect those of most Americans. I have only read the last 1/3 of the posts because there are just too many at this point but I must say, I am saddened by so much of it and now, in some ways, wish I hadn't posted it. I'm not a big fan of hate or stupidity. Though my convictions remain the same, I am discouraged by the amount of hatred being displayed. Though I realize that most of the trash talking is by people who are too uneducated or irrational to make a pointed comment that stimulates debate rather than hate, I nonetheless see way too much angst within this discussion to take many of the comments seriously. As I said before, I am an honorably discharched military veteran of the original Gulf War. I served my country and will never regret it. I was a young 18 year old kid from the inner city who, like many others, wanted a way out and the military offered it to me. To this day I harbor an incredible amount of respect for those I served with and those serving now. I support our troops and would leave for Iraq tomorrow if I knew it meant I could help save a fellow American soldier or was going to assist in making the world a safer place for people. I learned a huge amount of technical and mental skill and graduated from the University of Akron, in part, because of my G.I. Bill benefits. The United States Military is and always will be part of my extended family; my brothers in arms. That being said, I still contend this war in Iraq was a scam and believe now more than ever, that my original post was right on the money. Of course we'll never prove George Bush took us to war for oil but does this whole Haliburton contract scandal make anyone say hmmmm!!! Does the fact that WMDs have never been found make anyone wonder? Are we still sleeping with Saudi Arabia despite the fact that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis? If this war were not about oil resources then why didn't we address them 2nd after the Afghanis. Why are we securing oil fields in Irag and not securing the cities and the insurgents. Can even the farrest right wing republican say we haven't bitten off more than we could chew in Vietraq. Each and every day we lose ground in Iraq and each and every day hundreds more potential terrorists are born in a country that was proven by our own intelligence agencies to pose no real threat to us before the war. And worst of all, each and every day more and more of our fellow citizens are needlessly dying and being permanantely disfigured for a war that should have happened in another country. The country that put their people on those planes that horrific September morning in 2001. George Bush will go down in history as another Lyndon Johnson; the hard core, conservative, with a liberal sticker on his forehead, stick to your guns and principles president who didn't have a clue what he was doing or why. He simply operated on so-called convictions (his convictions not those of the American people). The Bush - Rumsfeld combo is horribly remeniscent of the Johnson - McNamara duo during Vietnam. See the documentary narrated by McNamara himself called "The Fog of War" and you see a beaten down war monger who now, in his 70's, finally regrets the atrocities he committed in Vietnam (a war he admitted his administration knew was unwinnable and was needlessly costing tens of thousands of American soldiers their lives). Yet they pressed on because to paraphrase Johnson "We are America, we don't run from wars, we win them". Even the stubbornist of Rebublicans will be moved after watching this Oscar winning documentary. I never wanted to stimulate a debate that pitted Republicans versus Democrats. Republicans and Democrats are equally crooked and equally share in the responsibllity of securing our safety. I'll leave that debate to the Senate and Congress. Rather, I wanted a debate of fact or fiction. Facts will, in history, speak for themselves. We, the American people were lied to about the war. Even the Republican constituancy in congress bashed Bush for not gathering more facts before heading into war and using unfounded intelligence as a basis for a preemtive attack. Had W. come out and said, we must address the terrorists and those who harbor them, and then actually addressed the real terrorists (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iran) then I would have probably supported military action against such countries. This was not the case. There are many facts that are debateable and many that are not. George Bush lied to us and is killing Americans everyday for a war that does absolutely nothing to stop or push back terrorist efforts around the globe. Everyday Iraqi insurgents find ways to kill American soldiers with sling-shots, guns from the Korean war era and sticks of dynamite while more and more terrorists train and prepare in Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Will we wait as long as Vietnam and allow 20,000+ soldiers to die before we have had enough of our president and HIS Christian convictions. Wasn't Adolf Hitler a Christian? No, George Bush is no Hitler, but Christianity as a basis for political morality is like using the internet to find a girlfriend. It's called blind faith. And sadly, every day here in America we tell people we hate them or they suck if they don't share our same view of this war. I think many of you should step back for a minute and try to form opinions, not from so-called Republican or Democratic agendas but from their gut instinct based on the information they gather from more than just the right or left. Michael Moore is a joke and if you saw Farenheit 911 and suddenly think you know the truth then you are sadly mistaken and in for a rude awakening. Moore is a liar and an injustice to free speech. He fabricates images and manipulates them to brainwash the public. He is no better than George Bush. And if you think the O'reilly Factor or FOX News is your best resource for information then..........I don't know what, but maybe just go and shoot your neighbor in the face with a sawed off shotgun if their dog craps in your yard. So, in closing, I guess in some ways this thread has had some good and some bad, but much like this years election, it has too often evoked hateful and emotional displays of stupidity and uninformed verbal attacks against people who don't share our same opinions. Since the beginning of time, war has never been the will of the majority but the tool of the empowered to remain empowered and for religious finatics to flourish. And war is certainly not the best tool to secure and defend .01% of a populations political and economic interests. War is neccessary when attacked and only when waged against the attackers. We, the American people cannot sucumb to fear and brainwashing. We are not doomed by Bush's reelection nor are we in an irreversable downward spiral. Nor is America, as a whole, an infidel society because our president and his brother have children with drug problems and drinking habbits. We the people not we our president. This Communist regime will come to an end in 4 years and when Jeb Bush runs in 2008 he will be greated with a more informed public that will hopefully put an end to the Bush Family follies. Best,

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way) As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue. As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way) As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue. As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way) As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue. As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

I saw your comment about you being a libertarian on this post Steve and I'm glad to find someone else who hasn't sold out to those communists and nazis in our government. Just had to comment on that. (I am a paleo-libertarian by the way) As for Adam, it is false patriots like you that are bringing down our society. (I shall affectionately call false patriots like you 'tratriots') Most people like you claim to beleive in a live and let live lifestyle yet you covet your neighbor's property and try to twist state power for your own personal gain. Get a clue. As for Nicole and everyone else in your position I agree that the 9-11 attacks were unwarranted and barbaric. However other people have the right to preach whatever they want in public even if they are from other countries. There is no law ANYWHERE that says "foreigners cannot talk in American forums". These kinds of issues will attract people from other nations and if there are issues in foreign nations that grab my attention, then I most certainly will stick my opinion in there. It's my right. It's everyone's right to bad talk this country, no exceptions. Live with it.

It's the truth, Valencia, the God's honest truth. The fact that you have that freedom of speech, religion, etc.. is a lie spread about by our corrupt media. Fox, Clear Channel, CNN, all of them spread this lie all over our nation every day. Bush is just another example of the poltical hypocrisy and scamming that goes on in America. He not only lies consistently, he fills his administration with liars and shysters, and Congress is just as bad. Most of those politicans in Congress couldn't give a hoot about any of you people. They're more concerned about collecting their million dollar TAXPAYER-PAID pensions rather than fixing the problems besetting our nation. And yes, when I said most Americans are idiots for supporting this corruption I meant it. They are being buffoons and they can't figure out why our country is in the gutter. The war in Iraq is just another example of the hypocrisy of the masses. You preach peace and tolerance but practice aggression; you preach freedom from taxation and oppression yet you tax and spend (For those of you "neo-cons" who think Bush is anti-tax and pro-business, the unconstitutional Patriot act is a huge burden to small businesses, and Bush not only supports Socialist security but actually planned to give Social Security payments to Mexicans living in the US). In a nutshell, instead of listining to those shyster politicans and bribed judges read the Constitution and see for yourself the hypocrisy that the masses are missing! Of all the people on this forum you tend to be the most informed, Valencia so I'm glad that you responded to my earlier posting.

First, a note for Valencia, as I've said before; we can all respect each others opinions as this has and will always be a great debate. However, poeple like Adam, who's only goal in life is to continously BS each and every persaon it comes in contact with. As for Adam, first, it is none of your d**n business why my husband is or is not serving our country. I have made it celar numerous times, because we can not we give to ANY and ALL reputable charities, including the one help your stupid a*s. If it weren't for people liek us, tell me, how do you expect to get treatment for whatever you claim is wrong with you this week? Exactly, you claim to be this and that, yet one day you have this the next you don't, boy you really need to lay off the morphine. I can talk about what I do know. If you took the time to read people's rebuttals instead of spouting off your BS, you would have read that I believed we did what we went in there for and should bring our troops home to their families. Appearently, your rebuttals show your lack of any intellegence. You need to watch who the F you're calling a sissy. I think you've proved to everyone that you and only you could be classified as such. I'm not the only one doubting you. Where were you when 9/11 happened? My husband was right there helping, he took several days off of work without pay to help. Did you do this? When Florida was hit by (I lost track of how many) hurricanes, where were you? My husband and his father (who lives in California) again took their time and helped out. I have not physically finacially supported any war or battle, nor I have ever done this for any administration. Like it or not, though, every single person in the US has finacially supported this war, who the hell do you think is paying these billions upon billions for this war? Everyone! We have taxes on just about everything, next thing you'll know, well be paying taxes to us the bathroom. Yet, again, we don't have the funding for our children's education. But you go on and think what you want. No matter what anyone says you spout off whatever BS and names you feel the need to. Is there anyone you haven't got into it with? That's what we all thought. Next time, I'd suggest you get them 2 inch think glasses out and start reading instead of insinuating and making comments not only unwarrented, but just plain stupid and erogant.

So, you were a photographer at a Naval Air Station and then at Kirkland AFB between 95' and 99'. This is less than making eagle scout in my estimation. Your opinion is of no consequence to those who have really served. You want solutions? Here's one. Let's stop trying to police the whole world and keep our cherished loved ones home to defend our country.How about returning to a constitutional government. How about guarding our great nation instead of bullying other weaker nations. How about understanding that other peoples and cultures are not ready for democracy. And finally how about you shut your pie hole and listen and learn from you elders and betters, you young whelp? You have nothing to contribute to any conversation among grown and experienced men and women. In fact, I think you should volunteer to go to Iraq, but this time enter the military as a fighting man. Not as an airman dressed up like a campfire girl. You sir, are a coward and a sissy. So, don't you dare respond to my posts in such a disrespectful manner. You haven't lived long enough or experienced enough to try to demean me, you putrid little sissy.

Ok, your arrogant comments are the reson why the USA is so disliked now. No one in this forum is a judge or part of a jury to tell 'the Brit' or Jacoba to not voice their opinions. Whether or not we want to hear what they say, thay can because this is CYBER SPACE! Obviously you are a young buck, because your immaturity shows it. Whether or not the US 'kicks butt' or Rocks or whatever, does not mean that we have a reason to intrude on others' countries. And since you know so much about history, the majority of the people in the US are from Europe or Africa, so we really don't belong here either! Another land we Americans 'seized' ages ago for our taking... And last, I agree with the poster who said that we are all just blowing off steam and no one is offering SOLUTIONS! So geniuses, any suggestions? And Jeff, you make a valid point about Freedom of Speech. I wonder about some of our laws that are written. And of course to April... I was not going to respond to your last post to me, but what the hell... I do not know people who were killed by 9/11 but I was there. It was the most surreal day in my entire life and I WILL NEVER FORGET IT! Last, when I have bashed someone's belief? Like I said a million times before... I dislike Bush as a leader, and that is my opinion. I am still hoping his No Child Left Behind Act will either be modified or banned. I think the events leading up to the war warranted a red flag. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but calling names and this anger on this board is ridiculous. Might as well be a cat fight... On a positive note, I am sure your donations to the many charities are great help to society.

Just some food for thought: Although I was a big supporter of John Kerry, after reading all the letters and listening to all the comments from the right, I'm glad the Bushies won. They're such poor winners, heaven help us if Bush had lost. No kidding. It hasn't been a picnic being on the receiving end of e-mails from distant parts of the country that are akin to those "nyah, nyah, nyah" taunts the kids hurl at each other on the school playground. It's remarkable what is happening in Washington right now. One might think these new-breed Republicans had scored a huge landslide victory on Nov. 2 instead of actually squeaking by with a 3 percent margin that may still wind up being even closer once all the votes are counted. And that was with the power of the incumbency behind them, plus a war that historically works in favor of whoever happens to be president. While the rule-changing being made by the GOP leadership in the House and Senate has raised eyebrows over the way the Democrats are being marginalized, nothing compares to the blatant in-your-face rewrite of the House's ethics rules to protect its majority leader, Tom DeLay of Texas.The irony is that the rule to require any House member in a leadership position to step down should he or she be indicted was implemented by none other than the House Republicans in the first place. It was aimed at the Democrats who had just fallen out of power after the Newt Gingrich revolution, and the new GOP majority wanted to send the Dems a message that their ethics were lacking. (Remember Tip O'Neill, James Wright and Tom Foley, all Democratic speakers who wound up fending off various charges of impropriety?) Now, however, Tom DeLay is likely to be indicted for his role in campaign chicanery in Texas, some of the allegations serious enough that he could face felony charges. What's good for the Democrats is obviously not good for the Republicans. So a few days after the election they went back to Washington and changed the rules so that the "Hammer," DeLay, who wields enormous power over this membership, won't be affected. Even Gingrich was appalled. What everyone seems to forget in politics is that old adage that what goes around comes around. Sometimes, when arrogance raises its ugly head, it comes around a lot faster than one might think. History will mark this the most corrupt era ever. Cheers!

You once again miss the point. You and your sissy husband are supporting a war that niether of you are willing to take part in. O.K. you suffer from S.L.E., what does Dale suffer from? I think it is cowardice or he would be fighting for whatever you think that we the American poeple have to gain in this ill-advised war. Yes I am a disabled veteran of another ill-advised war. what the hell have you ever done but give lip service and a few bucks to support our governments failed foreign policy? You can defend our governments failed foreign policy from the safety of your suburban beltway home, but if you had to truly live through the horrors of war, you would most certainly sing a different tune. How dare you doubt (especially in a public forum) my service and commitment to my beloved country? As I have said before, I LOVE MY COUNTRY. IT'S MY GOVERNMENT THAT I FEAR! If you want to believe any lies propogated by the current administration, you are not only hoodwinked but gullible beyond redemtion. By the way, when will Dale be volunteering to fight in Iraq? Oh, that's what I thought. You can talk the talk but you'd rather crawl than walk the walk. Niether of you have the wisdom or experience to discuss this topic intelligently,so just shut your ignorant mouths and let the people who have some experience in this matter discourse without uninformed B.S. from armchair warriors such as yourselves.

I sent a reply earlier apologizing to Steve for confusing him for the idiot in Alaska. Adam, you have alot of comments and you point out alot of problems and voice the complaints you have but other than that what else do you do? You are good at pointing out the obvious but you don't pose any solutions. Also, you seem to over react to anything that is said and it makes me wonder--how small is your manhood? Only someone as tiny as you would have balls as big as his mouth on the internet. I didn't serve in a war but I did serve in the USAF from 95-99 as a defense photographer @ Corry NAS and Kirkland AFB. So shut up and act intelligent.

First, I will start by stating that I did not vote for Bush this year. I didn't vote for him because I think we could have used some change. It had nothing to do with the war, but other issues that I will not get into. However, having that said, HE DID WIN THE d**n ELECTION! BOTH THIS TIME AND IN 2000! Everyone knows it and as much as it pains me to think it, it's true. Second, yes this war sucks. Yes we went for the WRONG reasons. But,there are reasons to be there. Plain and simple. We have liberated two countries (Since when does everyone forget about Afghanistan?) that were previously under horrible leadership. That's a good d**n reason. And second, someone knows where bin Laden is and if they're smart they will tell us! (obviosuly they are not smart!) Now lets see, 9/11. I was sixteen (yep I'm a youngun') and my aunt died. So yes, I am pissed at those f**kers that attacked us! They deserve to die. They deserve no civil rights. In one day they killed nearly 3000 people. That deserves nothing! Third, to that d**n British guy. SHUT THE HELL UP! You have given no reason for why you believe this war is illegal. And the UK is NOT a super power. WE ARE! I'm not sure who said it but whoever it was said it right "WE KICKED YOUR a*s OUT OVER 200 YEARS AGO" So leave us alone. Worry about your own problems. Which, before you say it, yes we should too. But we're helping others, you are just bitching. And as for Blair being Bush's lapdog, it wont change. America is a HUGE SUPERPOWER the UK will always be our little b***h! Deal! Either way, you have no right to disrespect my country. You don't live here (even though we all know you want to, I mean America does kick a*s!) therefore you can't say anything about it. Next, no I don't like Bush, but he is my leader. And I will respect him, and so should you guys. It seems like everyone wants a perfect president, but until we start manufacturing people, that won't happen. I would also like to point out the fact that Bush did a d**n GOOD JOB of keeping us together immediatly following that terrible day. No one was complaining about him then, but when we are simply defending ourselves, everyone is angry. If you don't like it, leave, you don't have to be here, Canada is just a border away! And Finally, I would just like to say thank you to every AMERICAN who has exercised his/her freedom of speech. It's when you don't use it that the powers that be can take it away. GOD BLESS AMERICA DON'T f**k WITH THE USA (You would think the world would have learned after what we did to Japan...and yet no...hmm maybe they'll learn this time!) oh and to Jacoba ( I hope I spelled that right ) I mean no offense to you, you offer constructive comments, but I still don't believe that people in other countries should get too deep into OUR politics.You have done very good keeping a distance while still voicing your opinion. Thank you! (and don't even say it you brit...it is America's job to be involved in other countries politics...you gave us this power. Deal with it!) and to Adam I am studing in AK, and you are why I will be transfereing out. You people suck up here. We should just sell you back to Russia! CUT DOWN SOME TREE AND BUILD A WALMART OR EVEN SOME ROADS! maybe then you'll have some perspective! Sorry one more thing...the jealousy of America from other countries (here I'll just talk about our little Brit). It is simply because in 228 years, we have accomplished more than Britain has in however the hell long it's been around (don't know...don't care). I'd be jealous too, but wait I don't have to be, I live in the Good Ol' USA! Have a great day and Merry Chrismahanakwanzaka! (cortousy of Virgin Mobile USA)

Okay I'd like to respond to the various letters and comments regarding George Bush and the war in Iraq. Seems like we even have people writing in from outside the USA. These ideas and attitudes expressed on this forum are typical of a nation of politically naive people. You people decry how Bush is supposedly rolling back civil liberties and freedom of speech, yada yada yada. Fact is, you people aren't really entitled to freedom of speech at all! The First Amendment begins: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion . . ." and goes on to address speech, the press and public assembly and grievience. This prohibits federal controls on speech, which still means that STATE governments can shut you up as much as they want, or they even can have an official state religion if they desire (for all you neo-con statists here, this means that you can shut dissenters up in your home state but the FCC's authority is 100% unconstitutional, no buts). As far as Bush is concerned, not only is he an idiot (ditto on Kerry and Nader) but the majority of people in this nation tolerate his antics; therefore, most Americans today are idiots. I love this country, don't get me wrong. I'm just telling the truth. As for you people here whining and crying about the war in Iraq, if any nation is so ready and willing to throw out rule of law at home, do you really think they will follow rule of law overseas? Maybe you should all think about your opinions before you shove them down other peoples throats. These are the words of a REAL patriot, by the way

Okay I'd like to respond to the various letters and comments regarding George Bush and the war in Iraq. Seems like we even have people writing in from outside the USA. These ideas and attitudes expressed on this forum are typical of a nation of politically naive people. You people decry how Bush is supposedly rolling back civil liberties and freedom of speech, yada yada yada. Fact is, you people aren't really entitled to freedom of speech at all! The First Amendment begins: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion . . ." and goes on to address speech, the press and public assembly and grievience. This prohibits federal controls on speech, which still means that STATE governments can shut you up as much as they want, or they even can have an official state religion if they desire (for all you neo-con statists here, this means that you can shut dissenters up in your home state but the FCC's authority is 100% unconstitutional, no buts). As far as Bush is concerned, not only is he an idiot (ditto on Kerry and Nader) but the majority of people in this nation tolerate his antics; therefore, most Americans today are idiots. I love this country, don't get me wrong. I'm just telling the truth. As for you people here whining and crying about the war in Iraq, if any nation is so ready and willing to throw out rule of law at home, do you really think they will follow rule of law overseas? Maybe you should all think about your opinions before you shove them down other peoples throats. These are the words of a REAL patriot, by the way

Adam, Who on this site is grown up? Surely not you. You continously pick battles you can't win, so instead of answering anyone's Q's you bash them. You make yourself look more and more like an a*s. Watch who you're calling a "sissy." No one really believes you were ever enlisted as you have lied so many times on other posts about anything and everything that you "wish" were in part of your life. You stupid enough to know that I have SLE, which makes me unable to volunteer for military service. However, I DO know a lot a people that have been there and done that. Not to mention my entire, and my husband's, entire family has always and will always serve our country. Perhaps you are the one that doesn't know the reality set forth. A question was asked prior, and I answered that question for that rebuttalist. I have made it clear and will make it clear so someone as stupid as you will hopefully get it through your thick head: I have finacially supported vets, vets of all wars and battles, we are active members of ACY, Children w/ Disabilities Act, MD Cents for Children, MD Heath Care Reform bill, The No Child Left Behind Act, ASPCA, PETA and MD CAN. We have taken part in bills for Social Security and health care for the elderly, anything and everything for children's furtures, Disabled Vet's Acts, etc. etc. ect. We currently and alwasy ahve/will finacially donate to the American Disabled Vets Foundation, the Purple Heart Foundation, Altimers Foundation, Breast Cancer Foundation, Cancer Coalition, Lupus Foundation, Diabetes Foundation, March of Dimes, American Cancer Society, Special Education, just to name a FEW. So really, I can boast about what my husband and I have as we give so much to so many. When you say that, then open your mouth as to what someone boasts about and what someone says for a reason. Oh, but that's right you seem to read only what you want and nothing more. Don't tell me I have no rights when people like me pay for your treatments. Remember that!

Do you really think you are posting on the right subject here? You boast that you and Dale both make six figure incomes. Do you think that disabled American veterans want to hear that bragging from people who've done absolutely nothing to support the wars you so fervently supporrt(in writing not by fighting). I think you would learn not to speak about what you cannot know, If you and Dale would volunteer just a few hours, once a week at Bethesda or Walter Reed. What is that to inconvenient for you? How inconvenient do you think it is for our wounded vets? I'd love to have you post an answer to my question, as I know you warmongers are not courageous enough to walk the walk. War is a good thing if it doesn't effect you or yours. As a real, true blue, patriotic American fighting man, I think you and your sissy husband should not only shut up about things you are completey ignorant about, you both should hide your faces when any real American crosses your path. When you and Dale go into combat, I will welcome any correspondence from you. However I won't be holding my breath. You support an at least, ill advised war. Show us your convictions and enlist in any branch of the military, or would that be some thing best left for your inferiors? You both make me more nauseated than my chemo, you are truly the dregs of society, and you owe a huge debt of appreciation to those who risk what you will not, on your behalf.

Tt was not Steve who corrected your use of the term "ex-vet". It was me, Adam from Anchorage. The real disabled vet. You try to post as if you had a single clue as to what our valuable and precious active duty and reservists are going through day in and day out. After reading your posts, I can only come to the conclusion that you are one of those cowards that enjoy the freedom and security of this great nation(provided by our courageous sons and daughters) SO YOU CAN COMMENT ON THINGS YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND! When have you ever served your country or anything that didn't directly benefit you as a drain on society? I'll bet never. In closing, do not interrupt grownups when they are conversing. Kudos to Steve, aside from you calling me some udeserved names, you do make a lot of sense. It's always a pleasure to read a post that actually makes good sense. I hope you will continue to add your rational thoughts, as I'm getting bored with the rantings and ravings of ignoramises like April,dave and Jim from Aurora. !

Hello everyone; I've been sitting here laughing - heart felt respect to all of these responces. first off I would like to thank Christopher/ Arkron, Ohio For getting this thing started darn near two years ago. It shows how ignorant most people are about what goes on abroad,(For some it seems just right outside there kitchen window, is there starting point) WOW and Scary. And for some of you Well, You've got your act togeather and thank you for information and/ or pionts I just didn't even know or think of. Second, I would truely like to Thank All of YOU that have served in the Armed Forces one way or another. If it wasn't for you my lazy a*s wouldn't be able sit here and get to know so many of you by your words. Just a little fact as of 8:30pm PCT 61 people had something to say on a subject one wouldn't have thought you would find in this type of report, but I guess it fits here as anywhere else. Third I'm going to give some personal reconition to some just because I feel you have earned it. Jason Wasau, Wis. Sorry to here about the lost of your buds but your right they knew what they were in for when they took their oath. Satie Ohawa, Kt. (forgive me for wrong state can't read my notes) and Janice Sacto, Ca. Both had very well written comments and there were many others too but these stood out on my list, also I couldn't read them all hell I got a life too.. Fourth, This war will end, when I don't know, but I hope that when we forget what it was all about we don't whine when it happens again. Just remember in time of peace prepare for war.

Look, freak. We are all sick and tired of all you left wing cranks and your constant attempts to run down the country that has kept you free. If you have such a problem with America, you need to renounce you citizenship, put a rag on your head and go to Iraq and pick up an AK-47 so one of our DevilDogs can pop a cap in your dumb a*s and put you out of our misery. The world would be a better place by removing you and others like you from the gene pool.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

I might not be well informed but I don't try to act like I know everything or refuse to adjust to a situation that I longer have control of. It seems like the only you could attack about my statement is a technicality about "a former vet." Here is a question for someone who has all the answers: What the hell are you doing besides complaining about things without presenting any type of solutions? It seems like you are the type of person who complains about having no toliet paper and instead of getting your own, you would continue to point out the fact there is none and keep using your hand until someone else fixed the problem. Voting isn't the only you can do. How much time to you devote to your party --besides not voting for them. Steve, maybe you should put your head in the microwave and defrost your brain.

Adam, I apologize as well. This issue is too "hot" right now. Best to Bill in Athena. I hope you now know that I was not slamming the military. Since no one is changing anybody else's minds here and we are all just being mean to each other, I think I'll bow out of this. This post may still be going on when Bush leaves office. Bush does as Bush wills and neverending posting at this forum or any other won't change it. Everybody for the war, raise your hand. Everybody against the war, raise your hand. Everybody for Bush, raise your hand. Everybody against Bush, raise your hand. Vote's over. Let's all go home now.

I read several of these posts, you all have good opinions which I respect. But I must bring to light somethings I learned from troops who have come home from Iraq. I work at Walter Reed Army medical Center(yes Jessica Lynch was there too) and get to talk with many of our troops. I'm friends with many of them. I too was a vet during Desert Storm (1987-1991). What I've heard 100% from them is, the Iraqi's aren't who we are fighting, rather insurgents. They come from other countries, Saudi Arabia, Jordan(Al-Zaqarwi who's beheading those people?) is a prime example and even Syria. They come into Iraq to fight us the purported " western badguys" It's just that we are trying to get things going when retards from other countries try to destroy it. Bush isn't the problem, but in my opinion, the liberals harp harshly on Bush trying to convey that he's at fault. He's not. But he hasn't helped out our economy either. I'm probably worse off now than I was 4 years ago.

Steve, I agree, now that we have Sadam, we need to leave. We have accomplished our mission. The mission to find and do whatever to Bin Laden, will never happen. Apparently, he's smarter than most our government. By still being there, and numerous other places we've recently deployed to, we are only hurting our economy even worse. Valencia, "...people are always ready to fight for insignificant things..." What? Fighting for one's rights, freedom and future unseen attacks upon our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. is insignificant? Did you know anyone that was killed or injured, not just physically, but mentally, by the 9/11 attacks? Apparently not. I have not sat here and bashed peopled grammer skills. I have attacked Adam as you have no idea the crap this site troll is dishing to everyone. But, before bashing my skills, you do remeber the saying..."calling the kettle black..." And no, I could care less about "dual" citizenship because as far as myself and millions of Americans are concerned, this should be stopped. Let's face it, if you had dual citizenship, say for America and The Soviet Republic, if we went to war, who's side would you take? That's why dual citizenship is not needed and should not be allowed. And no, you DO preach you beliefs' and bash all those that don't want to hear and object to your "I believe this is what's really happening..." lines. Jacoba, I will try to help with your question, I'm sure others will too. Anyway, will are headed for a recession. We don't seem to have the money to fund schools, health care, homeless and nessesities of life. Yet we have funds to support a war that should have stopped by now, we have funds to deploy to other countries, we have funds to help other countries (not saying that other countries don't need it). We ahve numerous businesses that have been blown out the water with scams. Lossing thousands upon tyhousands of jobs. So, no job, no money, and no money, no spending. When I sit in at a community, state or federal budget meeting, the questions are always raised about funding for over populated schools, health care for those that can't afford it and for speacial needs children (education, etc.). Everyoen is always being told that we are looking into possibilities to fund these budgets in the next 10 years. 10 years, so children are to become sick and remain sick, schools are continuing to deliver less than average education, but that's OK with our government. We are suppossed to know 2 languages as America is now English and Spanish speaking, this puts a hurting on those that didn't or can't get the education to learn other languages. Then they can't get a job because they only speak English. The government loks at them and tells them that they can go flip burgers at BK. You see they don't care about those not making ends meat. Mu husband and I have give and give a lot each year to foundations in our country, simply because this shoudl not be our way of life. I feel for those that can't make enough to put food on their tables, get emdication when sick or enjoy the pleasures of their children because they have to work 3 jobs. I know other countries are in need, however our country is not this rich, high class that the government makes people believe. We are one of the few lucky ones, however it has not always been that way, we struggled, my husband and I both worked 2 jobs at one time. It's hard for people to live anymore. Where we live, the average cost for a new home is $400,000. My husband and I make 6 digit incomes, how do these people that make $50,000 or less afford a home. They can't and when they try, they loss it because they can't make the bills. To sum it up, we seem to only have money for others. You have to make a 6 digit figure to live and even then, you struggle from time to time. We can't have a strong budget with so much decline in life. Too many people have to suffer.

Steve, I agree, now that we have Sadam, we need to leave. We have accomplished our mission. The mission to find and do whatever to Bin Laden, will never happen. Apparently, he's smarter than most our government. By still being there, and numerous other places we've recently deployed to, we are only hurting our economy even worse. Valencia, "...people are always ready to fight for insignificant things..." What? Fighting for one's rights, freedom and future unseen attacks upon our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. is insignificant? Did you know anyone that was killed or injured, not just physically, but mentally, by the 9/11 attacks? Apparently not. I have not sat here and bashed peopled grammer skills. I have attacked Adam as you have no idea the crap this site troll is dishing to everyone. But, before bashing my skills, you do remeber the saying..."calling the kettle black..." And no, I could care less about "dual" citizenship because as far as myself and millions of Americans are concerned, this should be stopped. Let's face it, if you had dual citizenship, say for America and The Soviet Republic, if we went to war, who's side would you take? That's why dual citizenship is not needed and should not be allowed. And no, you DO preach you beliefs' and bash all those that don't want to hear and object to your "I believe this is what's really happening..." lines. Jacoba, I will try to help with your question, I'm sure others will too. Anyway, will are headed for a recession. We don't seem to have the money to fund schools, health care, homeless and nessesities of life. Yet we have funds to support a war that should have stopped by now, we have funds to deploy to other countries, we have funds to help other countries (not saying that other countries don't need it). We ahve numerous businesses that have been blown out the water with scams. Lossing thousands upon tyhousands of jobs. So, no job, no money, and no money, no spending. When I sit in at a community, state or federal budget meeting, the questions are always raised about funding for over populated schools, health care for those that can't afford it and for speacial needs children (education, etc.). Everyoen is always being told that we are looking into possibilities to fund these budgets in the next 10 years. 10 years, so children are to become sick and remain sick, schools are continuing to deliver less than average education, but that's OK with our government. We are suppossed to know 2 languages as America is now English and Spanish speaking, this puts a hurting on those that didn't or can't get the education to learn other languages. Then they can't get a job because they only speak English. The government loks at them and tells them that they can go flip burgers at BK. You see they don't care about those not making ends meat. Mu husband and I have give and give a lot each year to foundations in our country, simply because this shoudl not be our way of life. I feel for those that can't make enough to put food on their tables, get emdication when sick or enjoy the pleasures of their children because they have to work 3 jobs. I know other countries are in need, however our country is not this rich, high class that the government makes people believe. We are one of the few lucky ones, however it has not always been that way, we struggled, my husband and I both worked 2 jobs at one time. It's hard for people to live anymore. Where we live, the average cost for a new home is $400,000. My husband and I make 6 digit incomes, how do these people that make $50,000 or less afford a home. They can't and when they try, they loss it because they can't make the bills. To sum it up, we seem to only have money for others. You have to make a 6 digit figure to live and even then, you struggle from time to time. We can't have a strong budget with so much decline in life. Too many people have to suffer.

Steve, I agree, now that we have Sadam, we need to leave. We have accomplished our mission. The mission to find and do whatever to Bin Laden, will never happen. Apparently, he's smarter than most our government. By still being there, and numerous other places we've recently deployed to, we are only hurting our economy even worse. Valencia, "...people are always ready to fight for insignificant things..." What? Fighting for one's rights, freedom and future unseen attacks upon our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. is insignificant? Did you know anyone that was killed or injured, not just physically, but mentally, by the 9/11 attacks? Apparently not. I have not sat here and bashed peopled grammer skills. I have attacked Adam as you have no idea the crap this site troll is dishing to everyone. But, before bashing my skills, you do remeber the saying..."calling the kettle black..." And no, I could care less about "dual" citizenship because as far as myself and millions of Americans are concerned, this should be stopped. Let's face it, if you had dual citizenship, say for America and The Soviet Republic, if we went to war, who's side would you take? That's why dual citizenship is not needed and should not be allowed. And no, you DO preach you beliefs' and bash all those that don't want to hear and object to your "I believe this is what's really happening..." lines. Jacoba, I will try to help with your question, I'm sure others will too. Anyway, will are headed for a recession. We don't seem to have the money to fund schools, health care, homeless and nessesities of life. Yet we have funds to support a war that should have stopped by now, we have funds to deploy to other countries, we have funds to help other countries (not saying that other countries don't need it). We ahve numerous businesses that have been blown out the water with scams. Lossing thousands upon tyhousands of jobs. So, no job, no money, and no money, no spending. When I sit in at a community, state or federal budget meeting, the questions are always raised about funding for over populated schools, health care for those that can't afford it and for speacial needs children (education, etc.). Everyoen is always being told that we are looking into possibilities to fund these budgets in the next 10 years. 10 years, so children are to become sick and remain sick, schools are continuing to deliver less than average education, but that's OK with our government. We are suppossed to know 2 languages as America is now English and Spanish speaking, this puts a hurting on those that didn't or can't get the education to learn other languages. Then they can't get a job because they only speak English. The government loks at them and tells them that they can go flip burgers at BK. You see they don't care about those not making ends meat. Mu husband and I have give and give a lot each year to foundations in our country, simply because this shoudl not be our way of life. I feel for those that can't make enough to put food on their tables, get emdication when sick or enjoy the pleasures of their children because they have to work 3 jobs. I know other countries are in need, however our country is not this rich, high class that the government makes people believe. We are one of the few lucky ones, however it has not always been that way, we struggled, my husband and I both worked 2 jobs at one time. It's hard for people to live anymore. Where we live, the average cost for a new home is $400,000. My husband and I make 6 digit incomes, how do these people that make $50,000 or less afford a home. They can't and when they try, they loss it because they can't make the bills. To sum it up, we seem to only have money for others. You have to make a 6 digit figure to live and even then, you struggle from time to time. We can't have a strong budget with so much decline in life. Too many people have to suffer.

First of all, there is no such thing as a former vet. Second, I do support our troops. It's not the troops fault that they were sent to the wrong war. They unfotunately are not fighting and loosing life and limb not for our freedom or our rights. These brave men and women are fighting to make a few very evil men richer than they already are and to advance a very dangerous agenda. The current administration wraps itself in the flag clutching a Bible in one hand while hideing a dagger behind it's back. The current administration has done nothing but fan the flames of terrorism, suspend americans freedom, kill at least 112,000 people on both sides and make Americans pariahs in a very large part of the world. Had he concentrated on Afghanistan, instead of advanceing his own agenda in Iraq, there would have been much less bloodshed and that rat b*****d, Osama Bin Laden would be dead. I can tell by your comments that not only have you never served in any way but that you are not very well informed. So, Bite me you DUMBASS! April, thanks for the feigned concern about my health. You'll undoubtedly be saddened to learn that my prognosis is good. Steve, I'm sorry, you are right. You didn't post anything that would lead me to beleive you support Bush or his criminal acts of aggression. And yes you did piss me off by what you posted. Do me a favor and read the posts again. You just might find that I make more sense than most who post here.

Yea USA & Bush ripped me off Christopher, because they dont pass a law to get rid of people like you .I have to come on hear & look at anti American crap like this. Support are troops Go Bush Kick there a*s ps I've noticed people from ohio aren't very bright! what gives ? bad water?

I can't believe anyone who is a former vet is complaining about a war when he should be more worried about his brothers and sisters who are fighting it. There aren't too many people who agree with the war but that is old news. If you were ever more than anything other than a private stuck on KP duty in a battle, you might know that. P.S.--If they taught you how to swim, i hope you make it to Russia

Hi, Here I am - the pesky South African outsider again - and I am not getting involved in any of your arguments as I believe you guys need to sort that out yourselves as it is, after all, your country. Please do not think that I do not have an opinion - like most citizens of the world, I read and watch and monitor what goes on in your country almost daily, but I do understand that in times like these comments from outsiders irk. However, there is one thing that I would honestly like someone in this forum to answer for me: the big financial question. Please give me a plausible explanation for the huge deficit you guys have at the moment - I am loathe to believe newspapers at all times and decided last night that I would ask everyone here, instead. You started off (when Clinton left) with about US$5 trillion in the black - and now you are decidely worse off. We have been told (here) that the war cost the USA about US$155 billion thus far and it has been forecast that by February next year it will reach a massive US$225 billion - which leaves you really badly in the red - with massive job shedding and a reduction of taxes for the rich!!! Some analysts here are predicting that unless very carefully managed, the US is on course for a recession within the next three years. So can someone give me some answers? Please don't think that we are being negative here - your president has increased funding for HIV - Aids in Africa and he has supported African business by giving our entire continent access to the USA - and whilst Africa is not South Africa, we are very much part of Africa and this is positive for us - so we are not complaining. My personal opinion on the future: if the current US government deals with the repercussions of Bush's first term (which they, no doubt, will) it could be just what the Democratic party needs to win the 2008 presidential race. My personal opinion on the war: maybe it was not a good idea, maybe your government was not advised correctly (you cannot possibly blame one man for everything), maybe you should never have gone to war but, when I last looked, you were all human beings - and the unbelievable inhuman and (I cannot find adjectives in the english dictionary to describe this) attack on 9/11 HAD TO CREATE SUCH AN EMOTIONAL REACTION that it irks me when we, the people of the world, sit calmly around our dinner tables and pretend to understand something that we cannot possibly begin to understand. Good @%$#! How did we expect your government to react? This did not happen to us - any of us anywhere in the world. Can we not just be a little more understanding and forgiving? I am a mother. If someone harmed my children I could not be responsible for my actions - this I know. Why do we not understand that those people that govern you guys are also human? Am I being naive here?

I have the utmost respect for any military personel, past and present. I do not turn my back on any of those individuals. They do their duty that they are charged with at the pleasure of their commander in chief, the President. Military people are not responsible for the decisions of their leaders, they are only charged with carrying them out. Following orders is honorable and necessary. There si no shame in that. We chnaged nothing in SE Asia, we only aggravated it. The killings that you described would have happened with or without your presence on the scene. It was their war, our "police action". The retaliatory killings That followed the fall of Saigon were horendous. America left, and it was all the same, but worse in that anyone suspected of being supporters of Americans were executed. A few thousand more deaths to the final tally. So, what was the cause? What did America make better? What was accomplished besides maiming and killing on both sides? What was the goal there? You don't know me. You do not know where I have been or what I have done.You have no idea how sorry I am about your injuries. It angers me to see so many lives changed for the worst. I just want to know why. I am inviting you to educate all of us here, since you seem to be in the loop on this one. And try not to do it with that defensive knee jerk posture. No one attacked you or any military. The leaders must bear the responsibility for thier decision. It bears some thinking on. What will history say about that war in Vietnam? What will history say about this one in the middle east? As to the current conflict, if our real goal was to remove Saddam, we have done that. When the goal is won we should quit before we embarrass ourselves further. When we leave Iraq the retaliatory killings will commence. It is the inevitable aftermath of every war. Will America stay there forever trying to prevent it? Now we send our children to the same hell you have described. Why does America want to send its finest young people to hell?

The war in Iraq is not just about oil. There have been too many threats to stand from *TERRORISTS*. Not Iraq, but Terrorists. We have been fighting a war to keep our country safe, not so we can have oil. It is our job to keep the elections in Iraq safe, since it is half our fault that the mad-man Hussien is out of office. If we retreated from Iraq, then the bombings and beheadings would triple in numbers. We aren't fighting against Iraq, we are fighting against terrorists and insergants. I didn't like Bush that much, but I thought he would be a much better president than that of Al Gore or John Kerry. Alot of people think that it is the Bush Administration's fault that 9/11 happened. It isn't. Osama Bin Laden would still be in a high-security prison if it wasn't for Bill Clinton's horrible decision to let him out of prison. And the funny thing is, Clinton is getting a Memorial erected in his name. I agree that the US is taking a turn for the worst, but it isn't Bush that is to blame. Most, if not all, Americans in the army or the navy joined willingly, knowing full and well that there were risks involved. We are not in a war against Iraq. A matter of fact, we are teamed together WITH Iraq to defeat Iraqi insurgents and Terrorists. The noble soldiers in Iraq aren't giving thier lives for no reason. They are the protectors of multiple countrys. I know what I am talking about. I'm not even legible to vote because I am too young, but I still know more about what I am talking about than a wide lot of you. I am not insulting any of you, because I know all of you are probably older and wiser than me. But I still think that President George W. Bush is the right choice for America.

I do not believe in this war, but that does not make me a traitor. I am a firm believer that we need to take care of our domestic issues first. The US is spending more and more time overseas and not paying attention to the homefront. But I am not a traitor. I love my country deeply, just do not agree with the decisions the Administration makes all the time. And I am entitled to disagree, its' called freedom of speech.

I do not believe in this war, but that does not make me a traitor. I am a firm believer that we need to take care of our domestic issues first. The US is spending more and more time overseas and not paying attention to the homefront. But I am not a traitor. I love my country deeply, just do not agree with the decisions the Administration makes all the time. And I am entitled to disagree, its' called freedom of speech.

I do not believe in this war, but that does not make me a traitor. I am a firm believer that we need to take care of our domestic issues first. The US is spending more and more time overseas and not paying attention to the homefront. But I am not a traitor. I love my country deeply, just do not agree with the decisions the Administration makes all the time. And I am entitled to disagree, its' called freedom of speech.

I come in here day after day reading the hate and anger posts. Most of the time I take them with a grain of salt because it is simply human behavior to cry about things when they don't go your way. However, this time, Steve, I do have to take exception to your statement concerning Vietnam. There was a purpose to that war and to say that it was useless is to demean all those good men and women that died fighting for a cause they believed in. A cause I believed in. A just cause that cost me the use of both my legs, but I am not bitter about Vietnam. I was there. I saw the atorcious way the communists treated there own people. I have seen old men and farmers who were made to kneel in front of their family and then shot simply because they did not have another pound of rice to give to the Viet Cong. I was witness to having young teenage girls raped and gutted out simply because their father, brother, uncle or whomever thought supporting their family was more important the fighting for the Viet Cong. No, Steve, I am not bitter about the Vietnam war nor my government. What I am bitter about is people like you who turned your backs on the very men and women who were fighting and dying in a hell hole that you would not have the guts to face. I am bitter about people who chose to believe whatever the liberal press wanted them too and really did not know was going on. People like you and all the others on here that spout their hate out of ignorance were and are still led like cattle by the press who only want to show the bad parts and could care less about the good that is being done. If it bleeds it reads. If you don't like what is happening in this country then get the hell out!! Canada is always willing to harbor our traitors.

I come in here day after day reading the hate and anger posts. Most of the time I take them with a grain of salt because it is simply human behavior to cry about things when they don't go your way. However, this time, Steve, I do have to take exception to your statement concerning Vietnam. There was a purpose to that war and to say that it was useless is to demean all those good men and women that died fighting for a cause they believed in. A cause I believed in. A just cause that cost me the use of both my legs, but I am not bitter about Vietnam. I was there. I saw the atorcious way the communists treated there own people. I have seen old men and farmers who were made to kneel in front of their family and then shot simply because they did not have another pound of rice to give to the Viet Cong. I was witness to having young teenage girls raped and gutted out simply because their father, brother, uncle or whomever thought supporting their family was more important the fighting for the Viet Cong. No, Steve, I am not bitter about the Vietnam war nor my government. What I am bitter about is people like you who turned your backs on the very men and women who were fighting and dying in a hell hole that you would not have the guts to face. I am bitter about people who chose to believe whatever the liberal press wanted them too and really did not know was going on. People like you and all the others on here that spout their hate out of ignorance were and are still led like cattle by the press who only want to show the bad parts and could care less about the good that is being done. If it bleeds it reads. If you don't like what is happening in this country then get the hell out!! Canada is always willing to harbor our traitors.

I come in here day after day reading the hate and anger posts. Most of the time I take them with a grain of salt because it is simply human behavior to cry about things when they don't go your way. However, this time, Steve, I do have to take exception to your statement concerning Vietnam. There was a purpose to that war and to say that it was useless is to demean all those good men and women that died fighting for a cause they believed in. A cause I believed in. A just cause that cost me the use of both my legs, but I am not bitter about Vietnam. I was there. I saw the atorcious way the communists treated there own people. I have seen old men and farmers who were made to kneel in front of their family and then shot simply because they did not have another pound of rice to give to the Viet Cong. I was witness to having young teenage girls raped and gutted out simply because their father, brother, uncle or whomever thought supporting their family was more important the fighting for the Viet Cong. No, Steve, I am not bitter about the Vietnam war nor my government. What I am bitter about is people like you who turned your backs on the very men and women who were fighting and dying in a hell hole that you would not have the guts to face. I am bitter about people who chose to believe whatever the liberal press wanted them too and really did not know was going on. People like you and all the others on here that spout their hate out of ignorance were and are still led like cattle by the press who only want to show the bad parts and could care less about the good that is being done. If it bleeds it reads. If you don't like what is happening in this country then get the hell out!! Canada is always willing to harbor our traitors.

Sweetheart, you've got it all wrong. I don't take offense to everything that someone says; he was being sarcastic. That's what's wrong with America now, everyone takes things offensive to much, ready to fight for insignificant things. Also, a lot of people say things that I do not want to here. But fortunately, I conduct myself as an adult, not as you do (i.e. calling people names, etc. as stated before). I cannot imagine you having even an inkling of a mature intelligent conversation. The stuff you have had said in this forum has made you sound biased, ignorant "When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion", and childish. How do you know this fellow does not have citizenship? (dual or sole) I could almost imagine you standing there saying those words with your hands on your hips and your finger pointed at the poor fellow. And why do you keep talking about peoples' grammar (not part of the discussion) when you continue to make errors yourself? As for your statement, "You want people to believe in what you want and only that"; please do not misquote me as those words were never typed by myself. I for one do not understand why you are so angry towards everyone whom does not share the same opinion as you. And the nerve of Howard to say, "You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems...", when Americans (or at least our Government) have always been the one butting into other countries business. Invited or not.

Sweetheart, you've got it all wrong. I don't take offense to everything that someone says; he was being sarcastic. That's what's wrong with America now, everyone takes things offensive to much, ready to fight for insignificant things. Also, a lot of people say things that I do not want to here. But fortunately, I conduct myself as an adult, not as you do (i.e. calling people names, etc. as stated before). I cannot imagine you having even an inkling of a mature intelligent conversation. The stuff you have had said in this forum has made you sound biased, ignorant "When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion", and childish. How do you know this fellow does not have citizenship? (dual or sole) I could almost imagine you standing there saying those words with your hands on your hips and your finger pointed at the poor fellow. And why do you keep talking about peoples' grammar (not part of the discussion) when you continue to make errors yourself? As for your statement, "You want people to believe in what you want and only that"; please do not misquote me as those words were never typed by myself. I for one do not understand why you are so angry towards everyone whom does not share the same opinion as you. And the nerve of Howard to say, "You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems...", when Americans (or at least our Government) have always been the one butting into other countries business. Invited or not.

Sweetheart, you've got it all wrong. I don't take offense to everything that someone says; he was being sarcastic. That's what's wrong with America now, everyone takes things offensive to much, ready to fight for insignificant things. Also, a lot of people say things that I do not want to here. But fortunately, I conduct myself as an adult, not as you do (i.e. calling people names, etc. as stated before). I cannot imagine you having even an inkling of a mature intelligent conversation. The stuff you have had said in this forum has made you sound biased, ignorant "When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion", and childish. How do you know this fellow does not have citizenship? (dual or sole) I could almost imagine you standing there saying those words with your hands on your hips and your finger pointed at the poor fellow. And why do you keep talking about peoples' grammar (not part of the discussion) when you continue to make errors yourself? As for your statement, "You want people to believe in what you want and only that"; please do not misquote me as those words were never typed by myself. I for one do not understand why you are so angry towards everyone whom does not share the same opinion as you. And the nerve of Howard to say, "You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems...", when Americans (or at least our Government) have always been the one butting into other countries business. Invited or not.

Valencia, You would be the one needing "therapy." As a Washingtonian yourself, you should have taken offense to the "spelling." Don't mind me, why, because I sepak what you don't want to hear. You want people to believe in what you want and only that. How contridicting. Adam, How the "Chemo?" That's what I thought. You're so full of yourself that many people on this site don't believe you've ever seen a battle field. You continously rant and rave. Calling someone a "n**i" because they believe we should fight for our rights and freedom? I am an Amerian Indian, the only TRUE American race, so calling me something as insulting as that shows how ignorant you really are. By the way, that phrase was used awhile ago ont his post, by another poster, yet you claim to be "Adam," this poor old dude with so many problems (including starting crap w/ everyone ont his post), yet you seem to use the same quotes as others. To which, I will remind you, many others have pointed out. So really, most of us are on to your little trolling expedition.

Adumb, You accuse me of supporting this war? Hah! You are a nutjob in spades. My biggest fear right now is that Bush will expand this chaos throughout the Middle East by invading more countries under weak pretexts. When the WMD failed to apear in Iraq, Bush lamely said "Saddam was a bad, bad man and needed to be removed." I agree with that statement. Saddam killed people by the trainloads to keep his control of the country. He was a bad man. Has America become the saviors of the entire world now? Why is it suddenly our "holy jihad mandate" to remove "bad, bad men"? THAT is the very thinking of terrorists. This is a dangerous line of thought. There may be someone in another country thinking that the American president is a bad, bad man who will suddenly decide that we must be releived of him. By default, using Bushie's own argument, any country would be justified to invade to "save us" from Bush as long as they are convinced he is "bad". In fact, with Bushie's awful behavior there are probaly many people around the world thinking that the president is a bad guy these days. Bush is using America's military might to engage in a giant d**k-waving contest with the entire world. It is stupid and juvenile of him to do that. I most certinly do NOT approve. I am not in the military but have family that is. I lived through Viet Nam and the annihilation of thousands of young men for a cause that did not exist. Oh, I think some elected politicians made a buck or two from it since war is a money maker for those with conections. Does the word quagmire mean anyhting to you? You are just pissed becasue I did not support you in selling out your ideals and being goofy enough to think it would make a difference. That is a very Bushian way of thinking. It is the mealy-mouthed thinking of Congress who sold out to get us involved in this mess. Saddam is removed now, in case no one has noticed. It is time to come home. Yes, there will be civl war in Iraq, but Bush should have considered that before tipping the boat over. There has been civil wars and coups in the middle east since Christ walked the earth and before. America will not chnage that, it will just aggravate it. There is a long history in the middle east of ridding themselves of one tyrant and replacing him with one worse. The people there will have to deal with it at some point if they want it to stop. I would like to see Bush put his d**k back in his pants and give some attention to the poor, homeless, unemployed, hungry, fraud-stricken, desperate people in THIS country for a change. You know...AMERICA. The country he is supposed to be the leader of? How does any of these statements "support" Bushie's unholy war? Bush is a loose cannon, and so are people that accuse others of saying things that were not said! Pleas tell me what I typed that made you think I support Bush or the war so that I may immediately correct it. I thought I had been speaking out against the stupidity of it all as well as the stupidity of selling out one's ideals, Adumb.

Well April you have my mouth dropped to the floor. I take back every rotten thing I have ever said to you. Does Dale feel the same way about all of this?

Adam, you are not alone. You'd have to be an intelligence insider for real to understand why some of us do not support this war. But as always, to each its own... And to John, my fellow Washingtonian, don't mind April or the others that care to give their schoolyard outbursts. I am sure they are in need of some serious therapy. Especially Jim; the way he talks, its' a wonder he even has a job. I hope he doesn't curse at his children like that (if he has any). If anyone of you even thinks that Bush has no ulterior motive, or had no knowledge about the attacks, then you are all naive. America will wake up one day when/if the truth ever gets out.

You people defend a war that really has nothing to do with our wonderful country. We are sending our young men and women to a stupid war that does not threaten a single AMERICAN LIFE. That a-hole saddam has never been a threat to our great nation. We should not waste our cherished children fighting a stupid battle that will only make rich men richer. As a proud veteran, I believe I can speak to this issue much better than any cowardly piece of dung who has never been in battle, So, go ahead and talk about something you have no freaking idea about.

John mis-spells "Washington" on purpose in order to poke fun at the way the President pronounces the word. See, John is on the endangered species list; a liberal who espouses tolerance and diversity but thinks it's okay to mock someone who speaks with a Texas drawl; or, as he stated in an earlier message.."gullible yahoos in 'redneck states' who are ill-educated and low class..". It's the same old liberal/elitist double standard that has become so tiresome. Since John likes to rake others over the coals, I'm sure he won't mind a little payback. He identifies himself as being from Washington, D.C. so it's almost axiomatic that he is involved with the federal government in some capacity...care to tell us which agency you work for John? State Dept? GAO? A disgruntled CIA operative? No, John is most likely a GS-5 clerk working in the basement of some nondescript government building who spends most of his time surfing the internet instead of doing his job. John has theorized in a previous message that Bush conspired with Rumsfeld and Wolfowicz to invade Iraq and capture their oil, thereby enraging the "Arab street", but somehow he cannot make the connection between Iraq and al-quaeda. Although that terrorist organization has been identified as being active in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, The Netherlands, Spain, England, France, Germany, The Phillipines, as well as Arizona, Minnesota, Michigan and Florida, John would have us believe that somehow they missed Iraq. He doesn't subscribe to the theory that the fuselage of the 747 airplane located at Salman Pak in Iraq was used to train terrorists. No, probably it was just used by Saddam and his sons on the weekends for a little recreational torturing. John, it time for you to wake up and smell what you're shoveling. The next time I want any s**t out of you, I'll squeeze your head!

Hey, John, If you really want people to listen to your opinions and believe for one second that you're a US citizen, voicing these opinions; I would strongly suggest you learn how to spell "Washington!"

"Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life". What an uplifting and positive message to the men and women who serve our country in the Armed Forces... NOT! I've got news for you, Mister. The troops in Iraq and the American Industrial-Military Complex are not "keeping America safe". They are doing just the opposite: They are making America LESS safe! The American invasion of Iraq has played right into the hands of the terrorists and the Islamic Fundamentalist clerics in the region who claim that the United States Government are infidels who are trying to destroy Islam. This has created a situation which has encouraged hundreds of thousands of Arab and Islamic men to fight the American occupation of Iraq by becoming members of terrorist and jihadist groups. The number one offender in respect to "those who seek to destroy our way of life" are John Asscroft and the right-wing religious kooks in the Bush Administration who have used the 9/11 attacks as a subterfuge in order to create the Orwellian USA PATRIOT Act which is ultimately designed to create a police state and drastically curtail our civil rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. George W. Bush, you have "misunderestimated" the will of the Iraqi people in their desire to repel the American invaders who are conducting a proxy war on Islam on behalf of the Israeli demons!!!

I would like to pause on this Thansgiving Day to express my heartfelt gratitude to all of our military men and women. I pray to God for your safety and swift return to your families. Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life.

I would like to pause on this Thansgiving Day to express my heartfelt gratitude to all of our military men and women. I pray to God for your safety and swift return to your families. Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life.

I would like to pause on this Thansgiving Day to express my heartfelt gratitude to all of our military men and women. I pray to God for your safety and swift return to your families. Thanks for all of your sacrifices in keeping America safe from those who seek to destroy our way of life.

George Bush's narrow victory over the dull John Kerry was a well-deserved personal triumph. But it would not have happened without brilliant Republican strategist Karl Rove, who achieved a narrow Bush win in spite of two failing wars abroad, a weak economy, and monster budget deficits. But the decisive vote that gave Bush victory came from what the s****.. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, costing a least $6.5 billion monthly, are, at best stalemated; at worst, lost. The aim of war is to achieve political goals. Both interventions have failed on the strategic level since US political goals have not been realized in either nation. If the US withdraws its troops from Iraq or Afghanistan, the regimes it installed will be swept away in short order. But half the US army is tied down in these stalemated, hugely expensive colonial wars. So Bush must decide to continue these un-winnable conflicts, or find some face-saving way out. The president must also deal with terrorism. Killing Osama bin Laden will not eliminate the anti-American hatred surging across the Muslim world, where the US is facing a spreading insurgency against its political and economic domination. Americans have yet to understand this fact.

You have got to be kidding. Or at least yourself. Bush did not win the 2004 election for his first term being elected. Believe all the BS you want as to the 2000 election, Bush won, became president, get over it. You want to talk about the US solders killing innocents in Iraq, etc. Hello, Sadam killed countless Iraqi Citizens on a daily basis, just because they disagreed with some tyranny he would try to impose. What women can't be anything but obedient baby makers? Not in this day and time and no where on earth should this be. Children should be taught to use deadly force at a very young age? Again this should not be happening anywhere on earth. You talk about religious agendas and ideas; funny thing is you bring up the US not helping with the Holy Wars between the Israel's and Palestine's. But that is what has happened there, a Holy War. They are fighting each other because they oppose each other's religious beliefs and upbringings. However, any one believing in ANY God should know that their God would not find killings and placing weapons in children's hand acceptable, there is no such thing as a Holy War. This is man's way of copping out to a notion of aggression towards others. I hate to see what's happening there, but no, we should not be there, that is not our fight. You bring up that Bush claims to speak to God, I must have missed something because ewe didn't hear that here, but OK. However, hundreds of thousands of people claim to speak to their God, does that make everyone of those people religious extremist? There are good reasons for this war and wrong reasons and the US and others can debate this forever. The fact of the matter is, you believe the news is keeping a hush-hush on what's really going on there. OK, maybe so, but we should all believe they're hiding something because you have speculations? I know for a fact that everything going on there is not reported, as with any war or battle. I've seen people come back for periods of time, and as it has been for hundreds of years, they can't speak specifics to civilians, but can tell us that it is bad over there. However, war is not supposed to be a wonderful place to be or to even hear about. You bring up the 9/11 Commission. Let me remind you that this commission was put in place by those opposing Bush and this war. So, anything said will be contradicted one way or another. You don't honestly believe there weren't WMD? You don't honestly believe that Sadam and Bin Laden had nothing to do with one another? Come on now, this is common sense. Funny, 98% of US citizens were behind this war in the beginning. That is the most backing any president has had in history. Yet now, of those people have changed their minds. That is not Bush's fault, but our own. If Clinton had went after Bin Laden when he knew of his were abouts, which he admitted he did, this would never have happened, nor would we have had to endure the terrorist actions of 9/11 nor worry every single day as to what might or might not happen. Put the blame where it should be, not on the only person that had the guts to back his words. What I don't like about this war; for the same reasons people have changed their minds; we've granted an enormous amount of funding for this war and those people in that country. Yet, we can't help those less fortunate in our own backyard. You can not walk near the White House without seeing numerous homeless men, women and children. Maybe some of these people are there on their own accord, but for all those that were down on their luck or lost their jobs (because of the numerous work losses in the last 6 years), or just something they couldn't help, why can't we spend some money to help those HERE who need it. Te only other problem I have, we have Sadam and we don't know where Bin Laden is , and no the US doesn't know, so why can't our men and women come home to their families, wouldn't that make for the best Christmas present? Like I've said before, we could argue this forever and if someone wants to bust on the way our economy is right now, etc. So be it, I'm right there. But this is getting old, it's the same old song and dance.

You have to admit that Jorge Arbusto (The literal translation of George Bush into Spanish) is a buffoon and an embarassment. People in other counrties look at this sorry excuse for a President and shake their heads in disgust at the stupidity of the American people for electing him. Prince George (The son of the infamous King "Read My Lips" George) was elected President (notice how I didn't say "re-elected") because of all of the gullible yahoos located in the so-called "Red States" (actually, "Redneck States" would be a better description). These ill-educated, low-class sheep blindly do what they are told, and never question their shepherd, Bush. When Georgie Porgie decided that Iraq would be Number One on America's Hit List, no one was gonna talk him and his Neo Con-artist "advisors" such as Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld out of going to war. They knew that Iraq no longer had any more WMDs, but they didn't care. There was gonna be an invasion of Iraq, come hell or high water! Ever wonder why Dumbya didn't invade North Korea or Iran, which are a far greater threat to America's national security than Iraq ever was? Simple... Iraq was the weakest country in the so-called "Axis Of Evil". Why pick a fight with a country that is capable of putting up a fight when you can invade a beaten down weak country like Iraq? George the lesser also had another reason for "getting even" with Iraq and it's dictator Saddam Hussein (who the United States helped bring to power): Saddam tried to assasinate Bush's daddy, aka Bush 41, when he traveled to Kuwait in 1993. Little Bush wasn't going to let Big Bad Saddam get away with that!!! The United States invaded Iraq in March 2003, and after a relatively easy victory over the demoralized Iraqi Army, has decended into a quagmire reminicent of Vietnam. The United States invasion, as predicted by many experts, has succeeded in nothing but creating a new generation of America-hating Islamic Fundamentalists and terrorists. Over 1,200 American military personnel have died since the invasion began, and FOR NOTHING! The United States has backed itself into a corner, and will have to maintain a strong military presence in Iraq for decades to come! What about the Iraqi elections in January? Give me a break!!! Unless the U.S. continues to maintain it's puppet government in Iraq, the country will be torn apart by civil war! So, in the end, we are in a lose-lose situation in respect to Iraq. More American soldiers will die, billions and billions of dollars will continue to be wasted, more terrorists will be spawned, and America will be less safe. I wouldn't be surprised if Georgie Boy and his White House "tough guys" use another subterfuge in order to invade Syria or Iran in the coming months!!! (Can anyone say "World War Three"?) To all of the fools who voted for Bush and his Republican Congressional cohorts: You get what you deserve!

First of all, right now the world is a far more dangerous place than it ever was before the Bush invaded Iraq. You asked why the invasion is being called a so-called-war. Well, it's because the attack on Iraq was an act of cowardice and deceit. After imposing decades of sanctions that crippled the infrastructure, starved civilians, and making sure there was no way that Saddam or his army could fight back, US launched a preemptive attack, going against the UN, breaking any and all international laws. Operation Iraqi Freedom, I think not. It is more like let's run a race, but first let me break your legs. Bush used an excuse that Saddam had WMD and was dangerous for the US and the Middle East. Since the end of the war way back in March 2003, there is still no sign of and WMD. Then Bush flip flopped' to a new excuse for his illegal invasion by claiming that Iraq had a link with Al-Qaida and Osama. Again, this claim was proven false by the 9/11 commission and intelligence reports of the CIA. Now the new tactic is being used, claiming that Saddam and Iraq had intentions of making WMD. Yet again, there is no evidence to support this theory. Why is Israel's weapon program not being questioned? Why do they continue to drop bombs on civilians in Palestine and get away with murder? Why does US look away when 3000 Muslims are butchered in India under Vajpai? Why does it not make India a terrorist state? Why does it not matter when thousands of women and children are killed in Somalia, Chechnya, Bosnia and Sudan? I think the real reason behind this illegal occupation is not to freedom or liberation of Iraqi people. It is to give capitol gains to big corporations and get kickbacks in the form of campaign funding'. Secondly, Bush and his foreign policy has always been brutal and his so called government of the people, by the people, and for the people never let the civil population hear the real story by controlling the media and how and what they report. The minds of the nation are being controlled by constantly bombarding them with false and bogus news. US citizens are made to believe that they are still a free nation. We don't have to look to far back to see how this democracy manipulates the system for their own advantage. The presidential election of 2000 made a total mockery of the US judicial system. The whole world witnessed that saga unfold as a self proclaimed leader, George W Bush, after losing the elections became the president. Even the 2004 campaign was a slugging match and Bush, after landing the heaviest punch was elected president for the first time. His weapon of choice, fog their minds with fear of another 9/11 and use religious extremism by claiming that he talks to God. I voted for Bush because he goes to church and believes in God. Was the response of most people in southern states who voted for Bush. Isn't this religious extremism? Isn't this a case of a tyrant who manipulated the people, twisted the truth, and has had over 1200 of his men killed in Iraq because of his selfish motives. Lastly, I would like say that lobbyists and special interest groups influence the US media. Listening to the news you can tell that they are hiding, or let's just say not reporting the whole truth. When the US media talks about deaths in Iraq, if they do, they only give a count of the US casualties. So, does that mean that the lives of Iraqis and other coalition forces are insignificant? Iraqi's are fighting for their freedom from the US invaders, why are they always referred to as insurgents? These are freedom fighters struggling to get their land back from invaders. What about the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives lost in the process of the SO CALLED world peace and what about human rights of all those people who have been humiliated and butchered in the process? It is difficult to understand how Bush can sleep at night after being responsible for the biggest mistake since Vietnam. Maybe all those years of being an alcoholic have permanently damaged his ability to comprehend reality. He has become a danger to himself and to human race after invading Iraq.

All Iraqis watch as their homes and mosques are desecrated by soldiers who shoot injured men in the stomach in pre-emptive lunacy that mirrors that of their leader. They and a billion Muslims watched as Americans forbade families from burying their dead, and allowed stray dogs to gnaw the corpses of pregnant women and toddlers on the mean streets of what was once Fallujah. No one is taken in by the lies and arrogance and greed of this racist war. Iraq is an occupied country, with a proud and stubborn people, who will never cease fighting till they are finally rid of their unspeakable latter-day oppressors.

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." -- Adolf Hitler

Paul is more aware of what "Evil Bush" is doing than some Americans. Now what is going on these days? Bush has "asked" any modertes to leave his Cabinet and packed it with hawks like himself. Or maybe some of these Cabinet members just could not stomach the big green weenie eater anymore and left for the sake of their own morals. We will never know the real truth. Bush is going to spend his "political capital" to gain his own ends. Big noises are being made about the Iranian nuke program, which will probaly lead to a new invasion. Heck, we are right next door now so it won't be too hard. Same crap we heard about the WMD in Iraq. If Iran was the danger, why are we in Iraq? Could it be becasue Iraq is central in the middle east and a base there would be mighty handy right about now? Many other countries hate America with a black passion now, which invites further attacks on our soil and the attacks can come from just about anyplace. Chile may attack, who knows. Bush has squandered any good-will America had anyplace in the world. Bush wants to amke the illegal aliens legal by fiat and erase the borders all over the world, starting with Mexico and canada. He ignores any rule, law or treaty that is in his way like it don't exist. Bush wants the New World Order with one currency and one goverment. Now that he has no stake in impresing voters, he will pursue this like his butt is on fire. I think he will have no qualms about invading any and everbody all over this planet. He will tell America and the world any lie it takes to cover his a$$ and go for it. He is like a mad dog. Maybe those green weenies will make him sick someday and he will have to go to a quiet place to recover for a long time. If not, we will all have to go on the defense every minute because there is no telling what this crazy person will do next or what he will unleash on us. But is Bush gets sick we will have Cheny and i don't even want to get started...both of them are evil to the bone. Bush wants to be king of the whole world and doesn't care how many citizens get killed for him to acheive that goal. After all they aren't his relatives dying. They're yours and mine.

Frank from OK...Kerry would raise the taxes..on those earning over 200k a year. They say that only two groups of individuals supported Bush; the very rich and the very stupid. How big is your wallet? The Iranians move to secure nucs issue is completely and totally opposite of the Iraq fiasco. Why? Because Iran and N. Korea actually DO have a nuclear weapons program now and they both had one before we invaded Iraq. By Bush invading Iraq, these two countries actually took the opportunity to ramp up their production while our resources are concentrated in Iraq. Not a good scenario for the world and a very stupid strategy chosen by Bush. We're stuck in Iraq now so we have to finish it. But Bush & Co better start a real strategy to deal with N. Korea, Iran and Al Queda or we'll all be sorry. Iran, N. Korea? My position? Diplomacy as far as we can, covert operations to kill the power-holders, then bomb the f**k out of the nuclear facilities if necessary. Monday morning quarterbacking? Iraq DID NOT have a nuclear weapons program and the world knew it. But Bush & Co chose to invade Iraq for reasons that remain unknown to all of us. I believe that those of us who opposed Bush's choice to invade Iraq before the invasion, people like Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, Brent Scowcroft, Colin Powell, John Dean, Gen. Shinseki (fired by Bush or presenting a better plan), Richard Clarke (America's top terrorism expert fired by Bush), 50% of the US populace, the World, most Democrats and me voiced our opposition BEFORE the invasion began. Now of course, in hindsight we all have the 9/11 Commission Report (9/11 = no connections to Iraq), Bush's 8/03 speech to the nation (no link to 9/11), the Duelfer CIA report (no WMD or Chem/BIO weapons), David Kaye's (Bush's own inspector to Iraq to find WMD) testimony that there was nothing (he was fired with too), Joseph Wilson's whistle blowing on the yellow cake uranium tall tale (Bush & Co. publicly exposed his wife's role as a covert CIA agent. An actual felony for the rest of us), etc. ,etc. Disturbingly, even with all of these FACTS available to anyone who has access to a computer or a bookstore that prove that our position in opposing the invasion of Iraq was/is correct, the radical-religious right in our country (people like you) simply refuse to accept these facts and many of you continue to insist that Iraq has WMD and was linked to 9/11. Like someone once said, those d**n stubborn facts keep getting in the way. Meanwhile, Osama bin Laden who ACTUALLY ATTACKED the US on 9/11 remains free plotting more attacks on the US, and the rest of the world due, largely, to the simple fact that Bush & Co spent all of our resources on a foolish invasion instead of destroying the actual enemy who attacked us. The only Monday morning quarterbacking on Iraq came from people who supported the invasion of Iraq but now realize that the facts show that it was a grave mistake. I'm not one of those people.

April, I think you are one of the few who truly understand the severity of the issue. But you are missing one point. If we let TYRANTS like Bush and Blair rule superpowers like USA and UK (somewhat) then we will see nothing but death, war and destruction. Reelection is, perhaps, the greatest, political endorsement. On November 2, after a $750 million campaign, the American electorate not only re-elected George Bush as its president but also handed the conservative Republicans a majority in the Senate, the House of Representatives and the governorships of the states. This time, Mr. Bush won the popular vote (52 per cent) beating John Kerry by 3.5 million votes. The Supreme Court too is now likely to retain its conservative majority for the foreseeable future. Through the fog of election statistics, a definite step to the right can be seen. What were the Americans thinking? Internationally, Mr. Bush's first term smacked of a palpable disregard for international institutions, laws, treaties and regulations. After a unilateral withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocol, he angered the EU by arbitrarily imposing duties on steel imports from Europe in violation of WTO regulations. He led an illegal and unjustified invasion and occupation of Iraq, weakening the United Nations and Nato. His administration has kept hundreds of prisoners of war incarcerated at Guantanamo Bay without trial and outside the Geneva Conventions. Add to this, the systematic and sustained physical and sexual abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib jail uncovered earlier this year. It's no surprise that most nations of the world were praying for Kerry to win. Aside from the arrest of a handful of terrorists leaders, Libya's abandonment of its nuclear programme and the holding of elections in Afghanistan, there is little to cite by way of Mr. Bush's foreign policy achievements. Domestically too, the Bush administration's record is questionable. It curbed civil liberties, converted its inherited budget surplus into the country's largest budget deficit and there was a loss of over a million jobs. Mr. Bush, in fact, earned the distinction of being the first president since Herbert Hoover to have lost more jobs during a presidential tenure than having created new jobs. Yet states such as Ohio, which lost 200,000 jobs over the last four years, preferred Mr. Bush over Mr. Kerry, albeit narrowly.

April stated: "This site is intended to notify people of bad company behavior, not for your way to vent out on the world." How true, but everyone is insulting each other and calling each other names about each others opinions like kids. And still keeping the forum going about the election. And yes I guess I believe in the conspiracy theories about the adminsitration; they are all crooked. How come the official 9/11 report submitted to Intelligence was blacked out in some places? Gee, I wonder what information we are really missing... But of course, I also believe that we should move on to the future since the election is over (at least this one was fair). Its' not much we can do about the situation besides move to another country, if we shall so please. "The storm clouds are gathering and things just ain't right these days in the good old US of A." So true. Folks remember, there has not been an outside war on American soil in a very long time. If we were to get hit by a war here, civilian Americans would not be prepared because some of us would be too busy on this forum defending George W. GOD help us all...

Man,Some people never learn. Personal comments aside...I think if someone belives Bush and Chaney are great leaders, then they need a reality check: THE WORLD IS MUCH DANGEROUS PLACE NOW THEN IT EVER WS BEFORE THE ILLEGAL (YES IT IS AN ILLEGAL) WAR. Against the UN and nothing but collateral damage. And besides, who died and made Bush the savior of humanity. If you could get your arse out of your behind maybe you could see better. I feel for the innocent people who have died because of this ILLEGAL war. History will only tell who is wrong and who is right. I hope by then the world can forgive the actions of Bush for his selfish motives of going into Iraq.

Whoah there Paul - Take a step back with your comments! 100K Iraqi Civilians massacred since the US Invasion. Like that should bother you and yours in the least. How many innocent Irish men, women, and children have been murdered by the Brits? Your comments: 1) Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 (proven by 9/11 commission); 2) Saddam did not harbor any terrorists (proven by CIA); 3) Iraq did not possess any WMD (the main reason for going to war). Before commenting why don't you take the time to READ the Commission's Report on 9/11, specifically page 61, where Bin Laden supported Islamist Extremists, that later became known as Ansar al Islam. Page 66 shows where Iraq offered Bin Laden a safe haven. Also try page 128 where the US Indictment stated a cooperation between Iraq and the Sudanese, on chemical weapons. Hmmm, where did Bin Laden hang out for years? Maybe it was Sudan! These are just a few of the many links in the Commission's Report on 9/11. Might want to research before making ignorant comments that do nothing but make you look like an a*s! Fox and CNN??? Like comparing Apples to Oranges. Please get off of the Halliburton issue. The no-bid contract clause was inacted by the Clinton Administration. Again ingnorance! Why don't do something you are good at! Drinking you Tea and eating Crumpets! Intelligent arguments only please! Kevin, GA - surely you do not believe your SS benefits are going to get cut. How do you think Kerry was going to support his agenda? Tax increases. Also if your pay gets lowered, get another job that pays more. If your argument is education/training holding you back, is that our fault? I don't see it that way. Everyone makes decisions in there life based on the circumstances at that time, and you have to live with the choices you make. BTW the election is over. W won, lets move on!

Well I see the die-hard liberals are still moaning and groaning about how the election went. You all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats who throw temper tantrums when you don't get your own way. You can sit there in your private little room crying into your beer and typing out all your theorys of why your candidate did not win, but when it comes right down to it, Bush won because the people of this nation wanted him to win!! Get used to it . . .get over it! Now there are some who even want to blame their loss on religion. What a crock that is! Kerry's lose had nothing to do with religion nor did Bush's win. Kerry lost because the majority of people did not like his message or trust his intentions. It's as simple as that. The best candidate won the election because "we the people" spoke. Nothing more . . nothing less.

Unfortunately, I agree totaly. We are in for one hell of a ride.

I'm afraid to think what has been transpiring during my lifetime. Both parties seem to be extremely corrupt, and when they get into power, there are scandals. As a result, the voters finally get sick of the party in power, and replace them. Corrupt Nixon was replaced by well-intentioned, but ineffective Carter. Then came 12 years of Reagan/Bush which started the gerrymandering process - which has polarized us into the Red/Blue states. After Bush, the elder, took us to war in Kuwait (as a product demonstration for the armaments for sale by his military campaign donors), while giving tax rebates to wealthy donors (just like Reagan and Son-Of-Bush ) while trashing the economy, and the environment, we replaced him with Clinton. But for the 8 years under Clinton, the Neo-cons were building their links among the right-wing militaristic Christians. They were organizing...while painting the Clintons as evil. Hillary was hated just as much as Bill, because she was smart and strong. They correctly saw her as a threat. When the Neo-cons swept into power disguised as Son-Of-Bush, they started implementing a structural remaking of our society's laws and infrastructure. And when 9/11 happened, they leveraged that into marketing FEAR to middle-America. The cities, which are much more vulnerable to terrorist attacks, didn't buy their line. But the people in the ex-urbs did... Bush II was re-elected, and now has nothing to restrain him from pressing forward in a massive revamping of our social system. Every governmental program which benefits people who can't pay for the service will have its funding cut. As a result, taxes paid by the super wealthy will cease. For some reason, those "Have-mores" think that the population of this country exists to be used to generate wealth for them. Yet, they are not responsible for the health care and financial welfare of people who are no longer productive in society. They use a worker's youth, like any commodity, and then dispose of them after they have started showing diminishing returns... Environmental controls are viewed as being unnecessary and expensive deterants to profit. The global capitalists have moved their operations to third-world countries where environmental laws are virtually non-existent. The resulting global pollution will nagatively impact all societies... Meanwhile, each time the Neo-cons came to power since they were born under Eisenhower, they have attempted to change the laws to favor the super-rich. This a class war between the Capitalists and the Workers. Middle-Class America didn't exist until the 1950's when the birth of the large corporation happened. Coupled with the Black migration to the Northern cities, White-flight caused a massive amount of the tax-base to flee to the suburbs. People traded in a row-home and a streetcar in the 1920's for a suburban carport and a commute to the beltway. At this point, most wealthy Americans have no reason to venture into the heart of their closest city. Enjoying dramatically cheap energy, as compared to the rest of the world, they have all the shopping, entertainment and hotels they need in their own community. As a result, the cities have fallen into decay. The Neo-cons have fanned the flames of racism, homophobia and anti-women's rights using a religious theme to tap into a growing fundamentalist trend among ex-urban whites. And, they count on the fact that fifty percent of the public is below average...who can be easily swayed by repeated false charges. During the next four years, we will be subjected to changes to our society which we have not even imagined. Social Security will become "Privitized" such that people like me who are approaching retirement age will be left with nothing. Medicare and Medicaid will cease to exist as we currently know them, because the Treasury will be bankrupt. And healthcare will become so expensive that the majority of the public won't be able to afford it. In a move to remain competitive (so they will claim), wages and benefits will be drastically cut. (In the past four years, Home Depot has cut its salary from $10 to $7 per hour... Yet their employees - who are in transition [divorce, job-loss, etc.] - will take anything to survive...) We are going to watch as our society remains permanently at war, with the ultra-poor members being used as expendable cannon-fodder. The resulting value of human life will only be apparent as a rallying cry against abortion. Our country has already begun a decent into a very dark period. Our Democracy is a sham, with elections already being pre-determined by districting and negative advertising. The Neo-con puppetmasters know exactly what they are doing, and have traded our Democracy for the timeless qualities of avarice: greed and power... Every government needs a scapegoat to distract the public's attention from internal wrong-doings. And since we didn't have an national enemies after the Soviet Union fell and China became the global sweatshop, I believe the Neo-Cons intentionally created the conditions which resulted in 9/11. It was well known in our govenment that Muslim extremeists wanted to attack our country. Other governments warned of the impending event, stating the process to be used, and even identifying the number of attackers. Our own FBI cried out about Saudis learning to fly without learning to land... The fact that Ashcroft stopped flying commercial planes shortly before 9/11 says a lot. Yet, airport security remained a joke, until the terrorists attacked. Bush was briefed that Bin Laden was going to attack... And yet, Bush did nothing... Why? Because adverse public anger toward Middle-easterners could be channeled into eliminating basic freedoms for all Americans. With our electorate returning Bush to power, we deserve what we get as a result. I know that the Neo-cons will destroy our government with the sole purpose of enriching the already super-rich. Their intent is to destroy the middle-class, so that there will not be any opposition to their continued rule. They created the Patriot Act I, II (& soon to be III) as a means to crush political opposition. The Neo-Cons in power will retroactively justify their conflicts of interest and illegal activities. When the half of America which performed as they were programmed and re-elected Bush finally realizes what they have done, I just hope that it isn't too late to reverse the Neo-Cons destruction. Otherwise, America will fall off the cliff into the Third World. It will be a dark time where the bullies of the world brutalize their victims. We will probably follow the Soviet's results of having gangsters take over society. Either way, the time of cheap energy will be over. So if you live in a mega-hut, with multiple heaters and air conditioners, you had better drastically downsize... I'm heavily invested in gold, which is still the basis for most of the world's currencies. And it should retain its value if the dollar crashes... Check out the following gold stocks: KGC, NEM, WHT, BGO, PDG, GG, ABX, AU. Have a good day!

As an an American citizen I can use my vote as I choose.This time, I chose to vote for the Democratic candidate as he was the only candidate that had a chance of winning against the Bush/Cheney machine. In my local elections, I voted Libertarian. Calling me a communist is the most rediculous thing you could do. I am and will continue to be a Libertarian. It was just way to important to try to get Bush out of the White House for me to waste my vote on an admittedly excellent candidate who unfortunately had no chance. Remember this is America!

I, too, am not an American citizen - I am South African - and I have, also, aired my own views on this forum but have never had such a vehement response from any one of you guys! I have always thought that the Americans themselves are an amazing people! The fact of the matter is - that American does affect the lives of many many people outside of the USA! No-one can argue the fact - so it does seem a tad unfair to deny outside comment - dont' you think? In our case, sanctions imposed by the Americans led to our new democracy - something for which we will all be grateful always. There are so many opinions on this war - so many broken hearts and broken lives on both sides of the fence that I find it difficult to form any opinion. Newspapers will always be newspapers and will always have to be a little sensationalist to attract readers. Public opinion constantly changes and, quite frankly, it is difficult to know exactly who to believe. However, if we South Africans could put our horrific past behind us and work together to build a future in which everyone has an equal stake, then so can anyone else. We have eleven official languages and a myriad of different cultures, languages and faiths - and all find a home here. I fervently believe that the American people are well able to sort out their own difficulties themselves - but it will do them no harm to listen to anyone else that wishes to comment. Surely one can only learn from this? I believe that there is not one life on this planet worth losing - and that each life lost is one too many - and that includes christian, muslim, hindu, jewish, catholic, buddist - and whatever else exists. Lets be calm about this - and not shoot from the hip - lets listen, talk and negotiate. God Bless America.

Excuse me, you pompus, arogant, brit. If I remember correctly, we kicked you out of our lives over 200 years ago because of your instistance to meddle where you had no business. I guess some things don't change. Besides, your island doesn't seem to have the "Paradise" banner waving over it. You folks have a lot of problems of your own. So, since I don't meddle and tell you how to solve your pathetic problems, you can keep your stuffed shirt, nose in the air, pithy, comments to yourself.

OK, first, what right do you have to bust on our president? He's not yours, you don't live in the US or have citizenship. Your so-called "proven" by... is nothing more than here say in your country. If you want to bust on your leader, so be it, but you have no right to bust on ours. This is not an ILLEGAL war. The sense of that is idiotic. People will believe or not believe in war. I strongly believe we are fighting for the rights of our people. As I am sure 48% of the American people would disagree. But it's that 52% that re-elected Bush. And lets, all face it, it's better than the alternative regardless if you are or aren't a Bush supporter. Now, if an American wants to argue about our president, so be it, but not an outsider. When you come to our country and get citizenship, then and only then can you voice your opinion.

After reading some of the comments I can understand how over half of America can be so naive to re-elect Bush. I any civilized country someone with a track record of lies, deceit, and giving incomplete or false information would be impeached. I think it is not the fault of American that they are not aware of the fact that: 1) Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 (proven by 9/11 commission); 2) Saddam did not harbor any terrorists (proven by CIA); 3) Iraq did not possess any WMD (the main reason for going to war). Tony Blair (aka George's lap dog) lied to the British people by taking us to war. He is NOT getting elected again as 80% of the population here in the UK feels strongly against this ILLEGAL war. The thing that concerns me the most is that Bush feels he has to clear the world of terrorist. Well, here are the facts: - In over 2 decades of Saddam's reign about 300,000 people were killed. - In 18 months of US invasion over 100,000 civilians have been massacred. Who is the terrorist now? "People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Herman Goering. It is not the fault of Americans to be so naive and uneducated about the facts. The media feeds bogus news. I think if Americans...or shall I say 50% or who voted for GW should get their facts from someone other that FOX and CNN. I feel sorry for the 100,000 innocent Iraqi's who have died because of Bush's obsession with total power and his greedy friends at Halliburton, Kellogg, and other big corporations.

I am a card-carrying Libertarian and I demand you leave the Party at once, you gross sell-out. You claim to be one of us, but having followed many of your stupid comments all over this board, I know you are a liar! Libertarians are a party that believes in the Constition as the rule of law. You believ in th "Rule of Adam" where everyone bends to your will or not at all. If they don't bend, you will hammer at them with your big hammer until they conform to your point of veiw or die. You are a frigging Communist SOB if I ever ran across one. You do not have the strength of character it takes to be a Libertarian and to live in this country as we were intended to live. There wer no "wasted votes" in this election. Every vote that went to Michael Badnarik was a vote not given to the radical Socialist/Communist Dem/GOP's who have spent decades ruining this country. You gave then your endorsment by giving them your vote, you traiter. You sold our your own ideals thinking you could work the system to your favor So now we ahve Bush and he wants you...to go to war. Or build weapons. Or to kiss his big toe and you will have to do it, you sellout. "To thine own self be true" or sufer the consequnces. You have gotten what you deserve, you A$$hole.

Adam, Are you really that much of a freak? Lies about you? Excuse me, but you were the one who started this whole thing with your continous BS, threats (yes, you need to re-read your posts again, abussive language and horrible name calling. Who's not wrapped tight? You really need to seek some kind of help. By the way, since we are on this post, and as always, you post name calling and acusations rather than anything to do with a post; You are aware that a president wins by electorial votes, correct? Then why would you write, "My vote will cancell yours and my wife's will cancel Dale's?" Your vote has absolutely nothing to do with ours. By the way, who won? Get your facts straight, seek some help, and get off this site. This site is intended to notify people of bad company behavior, not for your way to vent out on the world.

I've searched the posts you referenced and unless you think I have the power to send you and your sissy husband to Iraq, I can't see how any sane person would find a threat in any of my posts. Are you two for real? Are you on some kind of medication that controls paranoia? If so I think you missed a few doses. Please, for the good of yourselves,your families and anyone else you have contact with, in person on the phone, by post or the internet. Seek help! You really aren't wired right or tight. I'm not trying to be a smart a*s here. I look at your accusations, and I go back and check my posts, and I truly can't find anything that could be construed as a threat by anyone but a paranoid. Believe me I don't want to hurt anybody anywhere. I merely wanted you to know that I was on to your lies and then you started making up lies about me. You need to seek a mental health proffesional before the guys in white with the butterfly nets come to get you, put a straight jacket on you and a padded room. After a while you might be alowed to play checkers with the other patients. That's no life for you guys, so please at least try to be rational. I have some things that I have to take care of, but I'll be back. I really hope you'll be O.K. when I'm able to visit again.

Yes...and that's not all....it has been reported from reliable sources (e.g. Air America) that Haliburton uncovered some secret religious artifacts in Iraq and quickly delivered them to d**k Cheney. Cheney, Karl Rove and John Ashcroft were observed in numerous churches on the Sunday before the election (that was Halloween) holding these strange glimmering crystal-like objects and chanting over and over to the mesmerized Evangelical Christians "Vote for Bush"... "Vote for Bush"....."Vote for Bush!" Lo and behold, on election day, all of the Evangelical Christians showed up at the polls en masse and actually voted for Bush. It is now rumoured that a congressional inquiry will be convened with Michael Moore serving as committee chairman to investigate these nefarious activities by the rascally Republicans. And there lies the real reason behind Ashcroft's sudden resignation. Really folks...you left wing lunatics need to get a grip on reality. The election is over and Bush won..end of story. Better luck next time.

All this voting-machine fraud does not surprise me. The whole d**n country is rigged for fraud. The ballot boxes used to have to be stuffed by hand, limiting the effects. Now it just takes a tweak of the software from companies with vested interests. Surprise announcements this week (and today is only Tuesday): Yesterday: Iran supporting al-Qaida terror U.S. military, intelligence services now certain Tehran backing Iraq Islamists tied to bin Laden --World Net Daily (Just like US intel was certain that Iraq had WMD?) AND Today: Ashcroft, Evans resign from Cabinet Attorney general, commerce secretary 1st to step down since election --MSNBC (Why? We will never know as the public excuses will be the usual; time with family, for the betterment of the country, a health issue or two.) The storm clouds are gathering and things just ain't right these days in the good old US of A. I predict a mass screwing of all American consumers in every way imaginable and a possible invasion of Iran and/or Syria. A possible citizens revolt in America, to be quickly followed by a global conflagration. The signs are all there and have been for a time. God help us all; we are going to need it.

Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked by Thom Hartmann / Common Dreams When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat. "It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me. And evidence is accumulating that the national effort happened on November 2, 2004. The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available at http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm, and noticed something startling. While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to produce results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios matched the Kerry/Bush vote, and so did the optically-scanned paper ballots in the larger counties, in Florida's smaller counties the results from the optically scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus vulnerable to hacking - seem to have been reversed. In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry. In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush. The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the smaller counties where, it was probably assumed, the small voter numbers wouldn't be much noticed. Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats, went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went 77.25% for Bush. Yet in the larger counties, where such anomalies would be more obvious to the news media, high percentages of registered Democrats equaled high percentages of votes for Kerry. More visual analysis of the results can be seen at http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm, and www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm. And, although elections officials didn't notice these anomalies, in aggregate they were enough to swing Florida from Kerry to Bush. If you simply go through the analysis of these counties and reverse the "anomalous" numbers in those counties that appear to have been hacked, suddenly the Florida election results resemble the Florida exit poll results: Kerry won, and won big. Those exit poll results have been a problem for reporters ever since Election Day. Election night, I'd been doing live election coverage for WDEV, one of the radio stations that carries my syndicated show, and, just after midnight, during the 12:20 a.m. Associated Press Radio News feed, I was startled to hear the reporter detail how Karen Hughes had earlier sat George W. Bush down to inform him that he'd lost the election. The exit polls were clear: Kerry was winning in a landslide. "Bush took the news stoically," noted the AP report. But then the computers reported something different. In several pivotal states. Conservatives see a conspiracy here: They think the exit polls were rigged. d**k Morris, the infamous political consultant to the first Clinton campaign who became a Republican consultant and Fox News regular, wrote an article for The Hill, the publication read by every political junkie in Washington, DC, in which he made a couple of brilliant points. "Exit Polls are almost never wrong," Morris wrote. "They eliminate the two major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative turnout of different parts of the state." He added: "So, according to ABC-TVs exit polls, for example, Kerry was slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points." Yet a few hours after the exit polls were showing a clear Kerry sweep, as the computerized vote numbers began to come in from the various states the election was called for Bush. How could this happen? On the CNBC TV show "Topic A With Tina Brown," several months ago, Howard Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris, the Seattle grandmother who started www.blackboxvoting.org from her living room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated (other than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in Vermont), the real "counting" is done by computers. Be they Diebold Opti-Scan machines, which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in the voter's hand, or the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines that simply record a touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is sent to a "central tabulator" machine. That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC. "In a voting system," Harris explained to Dean on national television, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once?" Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. "What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer." "So," Dean said, "anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central tabulator?" Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program called GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it into the central tabulator system. "This is the official program that the County Supervisor sees," she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting between them loaded with Diebold's software. Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test election. They went to the screen titled "Election Summary Report" and waited a moment while the PC "adds up all the votes from all the various precincts," and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000 votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning. "Of course, you can't tamper with this software," Harris noted. Diebold wrote a pretty good program. But, it's running on a Windows PC. So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the "My Computer" icon, choose "Local Disk C:," open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder "LocalDB" which, Harris noted, "stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes." Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled "Central Tabulator Votes," which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel. In the "Sum of the Candidates" row of numbers, she found that in one precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400. "Let's just flip those," Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. "And," she added magnanimously, "let's give 100 votes to Tiger." They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software "the legitimate way, you're the county supervisor and you're checking on the progress of your election." As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, "And you can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900, and Tiger Woods has 100." Dean, the winner, was now the loser. Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, "We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds." On live national television. (You can see the clip on www.votergate.tv) Which brings us back to Morris and those pesky exit polls that had Karen Hughes telling George W. Bush that he'd lost the election in a landslide. Morris's conspiracy theory is that the exit polls "were sabotage" to cause people in the western states to not bother voting for Bush, since the networks would call the election based on the exit polls for Kerry. But the networks didn't do that, and had never intended to. It makes far more sense that the exit polls were right - they weren't done on Diebold PCs - and that the vote itself was hacked. And not only for the presidential candidate - Jeff Fisher thinks this hit him and pretty much every other Democratic candidate for national office in the most-hacked swing states. So far, the only national "mainstream" media to come close to this story was Keith Olbermann on his show Friday night, November 5th, when he noted that it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far uncovered seem to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and other media are now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to explain how the exit polls had failed. But I agree with Fox's d**k Morris on this one, at least in large part. Wrapping up his story for The Hill, Morris wrote in his final paragraph, "This was no mere mistake. Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board as they were on election night. I suspect foul play." ========================= FBI needs to keep checking other states if Bush does not put a stop to investigation. Seek and you shall find.

Dear Bill from Athena in Oregon, You have no idea what your comments mean to me. I would love to correspond with you and yes, I will certainly contact you before coming to Oregon - and frankly, knowing that there are Americans like you living there, I will make it a first port of call. All of the people that I have "met" and read about in this report are very special and I know that your great country will grow from strength to strength and nurture and support young democracies like ours. You have to understand that we, here in South Africa, have not forgotten (and will always be grateful) that you guys did pressurise our old government into changing their ways and allow us to become a democracy without too much bloodshed - so regardless of who is or was your president, you - the American people - helped get us our freedom - quite a feather in any cap! Good night and good voting.

One again I must extend my heartfelt thanks to you, Jacoba. It is nice to know that there are others and other countries that watch our great nation and what it does. I too have been watching this post and have sent in my opinion on a few occasions and what you see taking place here is democracy in action. As a free people we have the right to voice our opinions freely and even critisize our elected officials. No we do not always agree with each other and that is the way it should be, but we can tell everyone what our point of view is. I am sure you have noticed that some of the discussion on here does get a bit heated, but that is simply the way things are allowed to work in this great nation of ours. Thank God for democracy and God bless all those who are willing to stand up and defend it! As for this discussion coming to a close, well that I think will never happen because of the simple fact that we can and do have differing opionions and are free to voice them. Yes our voting will be over today (hopefully)but discussing politics in this country will go on for as long as we are a free country. On a side note, you once proffessed your desire to someday visit our country. When you do come to the great state of Oregon. You will always be welcome in our house and I would be proud to be your guide.

I don't want Kerry to be president either.But he just happens to be the only viable candidate that isn't a stupid and dangerous redneck.Bush scares me, he allowed the largest amount of poeple to be executed in the history of the U.S.when he was governor of Texas.Now he's responsible for over 1100 american deaths.He is also responsible for an estimated 100,000 Iraqi deaths.He took a record surplus and and created a record deficit.He has certaily not made us safe from terrorism in fact He made us a hated country.He took all the prestge of this great nation and flushed it down the toilet.But you go ahead and vote for that maniac at least my vote will cancel out yours.And my wifes vote will cancel out Dales.Isn't democracy wonderfull?

I have been reading all of your comments for as long as this debate has been going on. I have found it incredibly interesting and, as you all know, have added my own comments on occasion. I believe the debate is almost at an end and I just want to wish all of you all the best with your elections. As a South African, the outcome is important to me too, so in a way, I will be depending on you guys to vote wisely on my behalf as well! Good luck to all of you - may your country grow from strength to strength and may the principles of your founding fathers always prevail - and ALWAYS be remembered.

Oh Adam, you just don't stop. No, Bush is not right all of the time, however, he stands 100% behind any and all decisions that he makes. He has no problem taking the heat from the public. I certainly don't always agree, there are things, not the war, that I disagree with. But Kerry is nothing more than someone with no specific knowledge of what he himself wants for the people. Every times he votes on an issue, he changes his vote. Like most, I would much rather vote for someone that can handle the job, someone that will stand behind the people, someone that will do something about terrorist. Rather than vote for an idealistic who will decieve us every chance he gets, someone who lied about his true VA status, someone that does not believe in war at any cost, someone that will take 10 years to decide that war was the right thing to do. And once again, I truely believe that Bush had our children and ourselves in mind when this war started, however, like any real person, he also had his own agenda. But who wouldn't? You really believe there were never any WMD? You really think that Sadam should have stayed in power? I agree that there are problems not addressed in our own nation, like the homeless, voice that to the White House. Next time someone from Congress is on a radio station, call in and ask for the things you want looked at. Sitting around complaining that your voting for someone strickly because you do not believe we should be at war is stupid. What do you think Kerry will do is the terrible tragity reoccurs in some way? Is doing nothing right? NO!

Hey, lets be Frank for just a minute. Bush took our nation to war for his own reasons, not to benefit anyone in these United States. If our president told us to eat dirt would you go out in the yard and do just that? I really hope not.What you don't seem to get is that our presidents are not always right. I love America, but I really fear my government. How many of our young poeple have to die so that Bush can feel like a real leader.It is with a heavy heart that I will go to the polla on tuesday. I am going to vote democrat for the first time.I have been a Libertarian almost my whole life.But this election is too important to waste a single vote. Bush thinks he's fighting a holy war. I think we are at war to satisfy a megamoniacal freak. If you support this war, you are freakin' nuts.

Adam AK I am not wanting to start a Flame Contest with you, but do have a couple of comments on your recent post. Serving in any branch of the armed forces does not necessarily qualify someone to make a decision as to when the US should go to war. Those decisions are left to the people that WE elect to both Houses and the Office of the President. I can understand you are passionate in your opinions and want you to know I am not belittling them in the least. Go back to the Bush speech gave on network television with both Houses present. He basically stated the US will take this, War on Terror, to those that support, finance, provide safe haven, etc terrorism, and that either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. Bush also stated the War on Terror will be a long and difficult campaign, not one that will be completed overnight let alone 6mos, 1yr, 5yrs, but an ongoing effort to stop those who wish to do you, me, all of us in the US harm. This war was global from day one and for those who thought otherwise was nave. The resolution sent before the House and Senate giving Bush the authority to send commence combat operations against Iraq at his discretion, was overwhelmingly approved. Kerry also voted to approve the resolution, but when he decided to run for president began to bash the president for rushing to war. If you don't want to go war, or believe we need to go to war, then don't vote for the resolution giving the president the authority to go to war. You can make whatever argument you want, but that is the bottom line on the issue. When you renege, you lose any credibility you may once have had. To vote no for the spending bill, to show them/teach them a lesson, does nothing but put at greater risk those troops on the ground in Iraq. Kerry says it is good that Hussein is not in control, but yet criticizes every facet of the operations in Iraq. Kerry says he has a plan for Iraqwell what is it? I will tell you what his plan would be. Withdrawal of all troops. Will that make us safer? Not likely. Kind of like having strep-throat and only taking half of the prescribed antibiotics. What happens? Comes back twice as bad. To pretend the US would be safer with the withdrawal of troops from the mid-east is dangerous, if not borderline stupid. Oh, if I didn't mention it. IRAQ IS A PART OF THE WAR ON TERROR! You mention the draft. This is something that has been spread by the Kerry campaign, insinuating the Bush administration is going to reinstitute. This was started by two liberal Democrats, one of them being the liberal congressman from NY, Charlie Rangel, but was shelved. Kerry says that he will increase the Army by two Divisions. How does he plan to do that quickly? Hmmm. Who wants the draft? You are right in one respect. Kerry would never send troops into battle to advance his personal agenda. HE WOULD NEVER SEND THEM PERIOD! Is Bush the Best choice? Probably not, but we need someone who will be steadfast, resolute, and will not blink in this war on terror. We do not however, need a President that places the interests of other countries over the security of this nation.

John Kerry, by speaking out against an unjust war is not a traitor. He is a patriot who would not send young men and women to war to further his own personal agenda, as Bush has.Speaking out against bad government is not just a right. It is the duty of any right thinking,patriotic American patriot.I'm sorry that you are also a disabled vet however,right is right and wrong is wrong blindly supporting a government that is wrong is not patriotism. It is not the American way.

Adam, I too am a disabled Vietnam veteran and I too have an opinion. Everyone is right that we all have the right to voice our opinions. Even you, but somehow I do not think the ravings of a dissatisfied person really lends much credence to their argument. I am sorry that you were disabled in a war. I hate to see any young man or woman go into a hostile country where they may or may not come back in one peice or even alive. On the other hand I have lived long enough to know that sometimes tough decissions have to be made and President Bush did just that. Did we find wmd's. Not yet, but that does not mean they were not there. Do we know for a fact that this dictator was funding terrorist around the wourld? Indeed he was!! If a war has to be fought then I would much rather fight it on their land then on ours. Hussain was a madman and I fully believe that left unchecked he would have eventually uncovered and used any and all weapons he had. It's not as if he did not have the chance to prove he did not have them. Seventeen UN sanctions and 12 years gave him plenty of time for that. It also gave him plenty of time to did weapons or move them to another country. As for the argument that President Bush is religious, Well think on that a bit and all will see the stupidity of such a statement. God lives in my house. Why can he not live in the white house? Besides, I would much rather have a man in the white house that admits his religion and lives by it and with it then one who only uses religion to farther his/her own gains. Our fine country was founded on religion and it was not until liberals came into power that it changed. As far as I'm concerned John Kerry is a traitor to his country as well as his comrades in arms. His entire stint in Vietnam was plotted out just so it would look good on his record when he ran for office. Now we find out that even that record may have been a lie. I don't know all the facts so I will not sit here and pass judgement on that issue. My opionion is based soley on what we do know and what was proven. Mostly by Kerry's own words!! Ok so I have ranted enough, but please, let me leave this with one last thought. I am sorry for your disability. I am sorry for mine and yes I do wish I was whole again, but please don't try and use your disability to made yourself sound better then others. It demeans us all when you do that.

You let others do your thinking for you and you just may see Dale in Iraq dead hanging out of one of our unarmored humvees without any body armor on.Oh,excuse me.I forgot I was writing about your whiney, snivelling so called man. I doubt he would be accepted by any branch of the service even if he had the balls to enlist. The draft board, should we get another, would laugh him out of their office. So, why don't you go risk your oh,so brainwashed hide.I doubt you'd be missed.

As an honorably discharged disabled veteran, I know what Americans should be fighting for.American freedoms and American security. If by now you don't see that our commander in chief had his own agenda not the best interest of America in mind, you must be brain dead. 1,1004 American fighting men and woman dead.Many thousand more wounded and possibly disabled for life.And what have we accomplished other than creating more terrorists, civillian casualties and the loss of our prestige among the other nations of the world.We have homeless veterans right here in the U.S.A.. Yet Bush squandered the largest surplus at the same time creating the largest deficit this great nation has ever seen. The war that needed to be fought was in Afganistan. Now the war on terror is going to be global.It is the duty of every American to speak out against bad policy by what should be our elected officials.I am much more fearful of a christian fundamentalist in Washington D.C.,than I am of a muslim fundamentalist in the Mid-East.We are much less safe now than before we stupidly attacked a contained Iraq.Let me put this in terms you can relate to;If Dale was a man and any branch of the military would have him, would you rather he died defending America and all this nation stands for or for some blunder that made you and all you care for much less safe?I LOVE MY COUNTRY, IT'MY GOVERNMENT THAT I FEAR.BLINDLY FOLLOWING A PRESIDENT WHO IS TERRIBLY WRONG, IS NOT PATRIOTISM IT'S UTTER STUPIDITY! By the way, when are you or Dale going to volunteer to serve this great nation as I, my father, my brothers, my uncles and many friends whose remains never even made it home did? I just can't wait to see the two of you head to Iraq. You could leave the kids with someone who could actualy teach them better values and judgement than you are capable of teaching or exhibiting.

James (PA). I apologize if I hit a nerve with you with my Feb '04 comments, and being tardy with my response. I am passionate of my convictions, which at times puts me being border-line Tourettes'. I am not trying to peg anyone in opposition to the war on terror. ALL have the right to their opinions, convictions and beliefs, as I myself do. We all know the protection of that right has been afforded by the (continuing)sacrifice, suffering, and loss of so many brave men and women of the Armed Services (myself included), who have stood and fought bravely defending the very Freedom allowing us to give that very opinion without regard. If not already aware of the fact, you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion, with respect to the prosecution of the war on terror, subsequent support of those men and women fighting. James - that's ok. This is what makes America the country it is. We are a country of differing opinions, as the lack of such would lead to digression, not progression. Some of the Intelligence Oversights you mentioned as a factor resulting in the 9/11 attacks, were a direct result of laws enacted prior to the current administration, preventing the sharing of certain information between Intelligence and Law Enforcement Agencies. Why did it take 3k deaths in one day for us to respond to terrorism on a Pro-Active stance? There were multiple opportunities from previous incidents (NY 1993, USS Cole) for us to attempt something solid in seeking out terrorists. Yet nothing of any substance was accomplished in the deterrence of potential future attacks by the previous administration. I am not implying the failure of the previous administration's efforts in effectively addressing terrorism as a worldwide problem led to the attacks on 9/11. I question how some can fault this President as badly as they do, for taking measures to provide for the security of this nation, when the failure to respond to a threat can put us at an even greater risk of attack? I am not a War-Monger, but feel the growing division of this country is undermining our efforts in combating terrorism, weakening our resolve, and potentially placing troops in a greater risk of harm. The terrorists will use this dissention amongst the country as a fuel to build momentum in their campaign of the destruction of us, our country, and our way of life. WE MUST STAND TOGETHER! ---------------------------------------------- And now we know it wasn't the Bush/Cheney's getting rich on oil money. The very countries who denounced our decision, undermined our efforts, and refused to show support with an alliance to rid Iraq of a ruthless Dictator, were the ones on the take. I have napkins for those who need to wipe the egg from their face. You are correct, Mr. Environmentalist-Wacko (Internet), did support the Internet. However, ARPANET, born from ARPA, was a DOD backed initiative to create an asynchronous packetized network, that was conceptualized in the late 1950's, embodied early/mid 1960's, and proven by the folks at Stanford, UCLA, UCSB, Univ Utah 1969, and became to us as what's known now as the Internet in 1990. James - were there enough Random Acts of Stupidity for you?

Gee, are we hostile? First, I am not igorant, I am an educated woman, thank you very much... If you want to correct my facts that is fine. Just don't do the angry name calling, "However, your reasoning is pure ignorance" I thought we were adults here, not school children. If I were to address something of yours that I thought was wrong, I would not address you in that manner, it is called COMMON COURTESY AND RESPECT. How do you expect to educate someone comming off hostile? Next... Being ex-Army, I think I know about supporting our troops. Just because I do not support the President, his decisions, or the war does not mean that I do not support them, pray for them, or that I am unpatriotic. I don't understand why you and other people are quick to say something like that, that is a misinterpretation and another way to twist things to mean what you want them to mean. Yes I have read the report and Bush admitted that he ignored an important warning. So you get YOUR facts straight. Second, Yes it is my opinion because I do not think Bush won the last war fair and square and I do not see him doing such a fabulous job. And I DID NOT say that Kerry was such a good leader either. I would not have neither one of them in office if there were better candidates to choose from. I understand you would rather vote for Bush, and that is your chioce, but why insult or bash other people who think different? And yes, the guy from the station stated that he was WHITE, so no it was not an ASSUMPTION by me. What would I have to gain by doing that anyway? I did not make a big deal over his race, but the DJ's running the station did and I said THAT WAS WRONG! It does not matter what race you are, we all have different views and that is being human. The reason I bought it up was because they stated that he was an example of the view of "white america" which is incorrect. I thought it was an ignorant statement to be broadcasted. I am open minded about other peoples opinions; different strokes for different folks. But come on, there has not been too much of an intelligent conversation on here about our political views without name calling, profanity, bashing, etc. (i.e. you calling someone stupid in a previous post, telling them to get a life) Calling me names will not change my mind, but an intelligent converstion will get me to think... OK? So you have your view and I have mine, and if that doesn't mean s**t to you then YOU get a life. God Bless...

I've stayed out of this discussion far too long. First I am an Independent, so I do watch closely both sides. I want to point out that, Howard from VA, very nicely put. You summed up a lot of people's feelings. Like most, I also don't always agree with our president, however he is just that. No one is perfect, yet we like to fault people for what they do that we don't agree with instead of respecting them for what they do. To Valencia: There is so much to point out in your rebuttals to this report. You claim to seem to have read all the reports, etc and get the picture. You also like to put down our current president, you're entitled to your own opinion, we all our, one of those things our troops fight for, remember. However, your reasoning is pure ignorance. I have a question, as a former troop as you've stated, why was the guy who called in not a guy but a white guy? Did you actually call the station and ask his race? Just curious, I hate when people assume such, no matter the point being made. You claimed in one of your rebuttals thatThis war was not wanted by the American people Wrong, Bush's popular vote, upon entering this war, was higher than any other president's in history. What people have changed their minds on is not what the fact was then. Like any other president, rather they will or would admit to it, I'm sure that he had more than just the American people's futures to think about. Hell, let's face it, if you were president and were given the opportunity to rid the world of a man, and I use that loosely, like Sadam, better another country, aide in our resources, you'd have in the back of your mind what you get out of it too. That's being human. If you disagree, you lying. Another thing I must point out, you stated you read the 9/11 report. Did you? Because it wasn't our president to which ignore the threat of invasion and assault, but rather those to which the president and citizens rely on to inform Bush and us as to such. So no WMD were found, do you honestly believe that there weren't any? Come on! Given the chance, Sadam would destroy us, hell, he'd kill his own kids if he felt they disagreed with him. And Bin Laden, if anyone honestly believes that him and Sadam have nothing to do with each other. Please! Like other's have said, I would rather vote for someone who stands behind what he does, is confident and reassures us to his decisions. Rather than a man who will take no initiative to help the American people, who disagrees with anything that will help our futures, who can not seem to remember what he feels he needs to do, who can not seem to make up his mind on ANY given topic. Kerry is not fit to baby-sit, much less control our country. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however before spitting out assumptions and fault facts, get them right first.

Dave, you are absolutely right. Dr. Martin Luther King said that this entire nation is sick and is unable to heal unless we recognized that. I agree Saddam is a terrible person, but our President is no better. According to the 9/11 report, we were warned about the attcks but he ignored this. And what if we had a war here? Who would come to our aid? France? Canada?

War is hell but unfortunatly, it is a nessassary evil. The day we have no more mentaly ill people in positions of power around the world will be the day we have no more war.

I will be short this time: Use your vote! If you are unhappy with the performance of your leaders, change your vote! I feel guilty that I, as a complete outsider, am making so many comments - but I am fascinated by the variety and the extent of your opinions, emotions and comments. Is there no way in which you guys can talk to one another and to your leaders? (This is not a snotty comment, I would really like to know whether you have an avenue, like this, open to you?) We had a TRC to get over our horrific past - and it really helped a lot. We had a Bishop overseeing the whole thing and he was so amazing and the whole country talked and talked for ages - until we all had enough and got on with life. Now, when our President freaks us out or does something that really sucks, we make a bit of a noise and we get to talk to him and whoever else needs to be there. We can also right to him but that doesn't work so well because when one is mad, one wants to talk NOW!!! If you get my meaning? If you guys are so unhappy, why can't you have a chat to him and ask him why he did or did not screw up? Is that possible?

It is funny h*o when you disagree, people accuse you of not getting the "BIG PICTURE". I don't care if Clinton or Kerry, or any other president took us to this war, IT WAS NOT WANTED BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! I am tired of either having a Domestic homefront or Foreign homefront leader. We need a multi-task man and we do not have that. I cannot condone the people who are for Kerry either. For example, I listen to a popluar radio show in the morning in DC and a white guy called in and asked the hosts to give him an intelligent explanation as to why he hated Bush and wanted Kerry. The guy was not indignant, he was very on point and gave his reasons. The hosts whom were on the show were very rude because the guy did not agree with him. They hung up on him for not agreeing. That is wrong. Just because we disagree does not mean that we do not have good reasons. So... to Howard in Suffolk, VA, it is not that we do not get the big picture, it is that people have a different idea of what our leader should be doing for the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

I reiterate my comments made on the 23rd and the 24th of September above. I realise that all leaders have very difficult jobs and, your President must have one of the most difficult jobs in the world! Every country and every citizen in the world are constantly keeping an eye on him! How would you like that - and how would you cope? It's a pity about the bad publicity, though. Anyway, I have no doubt that you guys will weather this storm - like you have weathered so many in the past. However, remember that there are many people in the world that are very grateful to the USA for bringing them democracy. Now - how about helping us here in Africa? Whilst my country finally has a democracy and has become one of the most wonderful places to live, there are so many up north that really need help - and help from you would really destroy many of the theories re greed. After all, what could you gain from helping the Sudanese - not to mention the many many people starving to death every single day in many other African countries?

As a leader in our military, I have learned many things. 1) Be consistent in all you do. Subordinate need to know that their leader stands on principal and does not change his/her mind on a whim. But changing the direction based on relevant and prevalent information. 2) It's lonely at the top. You have to differentiate between friends and subordinates. As a leader you cannot lead based on what your friends want but what is needed for the mission at hand and what is best for the subordinates. 3) Leading is a very unpopular occupation. You cannot please all the people all the time. A leader sometimes has to make unpopular decisions based on the information at hand. 4) A leader always looks at the big picture but needs to only paint small pictures for the subordinates. Sometimes you should not give all the information to the subordinate. Just give their piece of the picture for what they need to know. I do not pretend to have a big picture of what we are going through right now. But, with the information I have been offered, I firmly believe that we have done the right thing at the right time. Everyone seems to be so wrapped around the axle regarding WMD (weapons of mass destruction). I only have this to point out. During President Bush's State of the Union address in 2003 he mention at least six other factors that was leading his decision to go into Iraq. 5 million oppressed human beings being one that really stuck in my mind. I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic and to bare true faith and allegiance to the same. Folks, I take that oath very seriously. To many people, the Constitution is just a piece of parchment over 216 years old. A paper with words really has little to no meaning. It can't speak for itself. It can't defend itself. It is an inanimate object. Hardly anything worth defending. No. To me it is more than pulp wood. It is a living, breathing document brought to life by the ideals of our fore-fathers and sustained over the years by countless patriots who don the uniform of service. It is our very existence and our continual pursuit of freedom. It is every American who looks upon our banner with respect and reverence. It is our way of life. We live this freedom everyday of our lives safe in the knowledge that America's best are guarding it with extreme prejudice. But in our daily lives do we really see beyond our surveyed boarders and the oceans that separate us from others? I have seen first hand what oppression and bondage in fear bring. Vacant eyes gaze beyond me yearning for just a small taste of what I have. It has been so hard to convey any empathy to these who long for freedom. I have never experienced oppression the way they do. Never the less, I know that it is incumbent on us to offer the fruit from the tree of freedom to those. I, for one, would rather have a Commander In Chief who sticks to the principals of the issue at hand and doesn't cave in because of the winds of the political breeze. George Bush has been solid and consistent. That is the number 1 rule to being a good leader. I have seen what the other kind of leader does and, believe me it is catastrophic. Anyone who proposes to endanger our country by putting a wishy-washy, flip-flop, flimsy leader in our highest office has absolutely no business casting a vote. YOU JUST DON'T GET THE BIG PICTURE!!!!

I too am a veteran of a war the American people did not want. Was it a just war? I guess that is still open for discussion. However, I thought it was and I was proud to answer the call to arms. I would not wish war on anyone, but sometimes bad people do bad things and have to be taken to task for it. As a veteran I would rather follow a comander in chief that was percise, consistent and capable of making the hard choices that have to be made in a time of war. That is why I will vote for George Bush. Do I agree with everything he says or does? Of course not. Only a complete fool would do that. I do feel that he is the most qualified person to follow this war on terror to it's successful conclusion. John Kerry speaks often of his military career and I do not fault him for his service. What I do fault him for is the fact that lied repeatedly about the supposed abusses he was party too. As an officer if he knew of any such atrocaties he would have been duty bount to report it. Obviously he did not. Instead he came home and accused other veterans without proof. He went to Paris and covorted with the enemy. He has voted consistently against the military (when he was there to vote at all) As a registered democrat I truely hate to vote against my own party, but at a time like this I am complelled to vote for the one I think best qualified for the job. Kerry has changed his mind on so many things so many times that no one can really tell what his views are. At least President Bush was willing to put his career on the line and lead as a leader should. Can John Kerry make the same claim?

Touche - I can see your point - from what I have read in our local news and on the internet, you guys deserve a new president. Maybe someone who really really cares about the American people (all of you and not just a select few) would serve you all best. Good luck in your elections - we are all watching it from here in Cape Town. We are rooting for you and holding thumbs. God Bless you and your countrymen.

Thank you for that response; it is something that should be broadcast on the nightly news. When people express that they are not in agreeance with the war, it is automcatically misinterpreted that they are disrepsepcting the troops. And for the record, I did nto vote for Bush. it is still arguable that Bush did not recieve the popular vote, but alas he was elected President anyway. I am Ex-Army and know how it feels to be put into a war that you do not approve of. We can't say that the Spet. 11 is the reason that we are fighting in Iraq, because there has been no mention of us looking for Osama bin Laden; as a matter of fact, the focus of the war has changed in the past several years. And according tot he 9/11 Report (a must read), the Un did not find any WMD or that there were weapons being made, etc. I am ready for a new president.

Dear Darren, you are the reason the rest of the world has so much respect for the American soldier, airman or sailor - and the reason there are so few of you in politics. I can withdraw now from this debate which, really, has nothing to do with me. I reiterate my wish to visit your country one day - there must be many many more of you and these are the Americans I want to meet, the ones that built your beautiful country, the ones that are America.

All soldiers everywhere in the world are only doing their job but since this whole debate is about Americans (and I am a South African) I'll stick to America. Unless I am mistaken, the person that started this was merely asking for peace and complaining about your president. He certainly never had anything bad to say about the American marines - or any of the soldiers. It may, or may not, interest you to know that American soldiers are very well respected everywhere in the world - in my country the army, airforce and Navy of the USA have always been spoken of with respect and admiration - even by those who did not agree with the missions on which they were sent. I did not understand the issue to be about them, though. I understood the initial complaint to be about those leading the American people - and not the people, per se - and I felt that politicians every where in the world were questionable (with the exception of our Madiba)! I still feel that you guys are spending too much time misunderstanding one another and quibbling about such unimportant things. You are an amazing people and have achieved amazing things - none of which could have been achieved with ONE ANOTHER. Why are none of you grateful for that? Or for your freedom? Or for your beautiful country? Or for the fact that you are allowed to say what you think whenever you want to? Or, without trying to sound pompous, for the sacrifices made my every American for America who lived before you? Or for your founding fathers and what they did? Or for the Americans that gave their lives for your freedom? If you think your president sucks, don't vote for him. I believe that no life is worth losing for anything - not a Muslim or a Jew or Christian or a Buddist or a Hindu - not any life. Maybe if everyone in the world started respecting one another and, in this, accepting cultural and religious differences and got on with real life the world, as a whole, could get somewhere. All wars have always been started by people who were clever enough to manipulate masses into doing their bidding - right from the beginning of time. War is outdated and it saddens me immensley to see that there are still people who need to create them in order to fill their own pockets - and then utilise amazing wonderful people to do so - is this not what happened in Iraq too? Are all Iraqui's bad (in your eyes) because their leader was mentally deranged? But my only point (and I know that in typical female fashion I am talking too much) is that I would love to see you guys being more tolerant of one another and more grateful for what you have. I know what it was like to live in a country where democracy did not exist - believe me that really sucks and I am white! Maybe I am still reeling from the feeling and maybe it will wear off but one thing I can promise you, I will never forget and I will always always be grateful for it and I will never ever be critical of any other faith or culture or colour. But this is not about me.

This is a man speaking from real experience. I am sorry his friends have died and will pray for them. Unfortunately the price of freedom has always been lives. We all wish thier was no war or fighting.The terrorists want war and if good does nothing evil will win. You whinny people need to realize a muslim radical would move to your town and kill you if it suits his or her purpose. It is true men like Jason whom protect us and keep us free. Thank you JASON and your friends who made the ultimate sacrifice of LOVE to keep us free. Even the whinny people on here who do not apriciate what you guys are trying to do for us back home. I love our military soldiers and know thier job is not a easy one. If you know of a way to stop the terrosits post it here. By the way genocide of Jews is not a good answer. They have every right to live and muslims must learn tolerance. Sincerly, Terry

Jason, As a disabled vet... let me tell yah. You need to serve for how it makes you feel... not for how other's feel about it. That is what it means to have a thankless job. As soon as the bullets stop flying they couldn't care less, and if you are disabled or retired then you are an inconvenience and expense. I learned years ago when I was an E-3 and was eldgible for food stamps... I had to serve because it was something I wanted to do for myself. While stationed in Greece in the late 70's the local communist group (KKE) tried to bomb my car. Environmentalism (tree hugging) has nothing to do with anything. Teddy Roosevelt would be considered a "tree hugger." Not all of us believe that Iraq had WMD. I didn't. I was helping high school students write papers about the build up to the invasion of Iraq. They all kept thinking that we were invading Iraq because they were supporting Osama and Afganistan. I tried to explain that there wasn't any evidence of that. Iraq was a secular country ruled through terror. Any action behind religion was seen as a threat to Sadam and was cruely crushed. Political discourse and elections have always happened during war time. The people against the President were not traitors or abettors of the enemy. Heck, if nothing else, it is an example to those countries and the terrorists that America is a land of law and that dissent is allowed and encouraged because that is what a democracy is. It is messy, noisy and frustrating at times. It is possible to be against the war and the president but not against the soldiers. Also, demanding verifiable evidence before we commit our armed forces and invade a country and throw them (soldiers and civilans) into those horrors isn't wrong. If nothing else, it is a sign of how precious those lives of our soldiers are that we don't want them thrown away carelessly. It is impossible to know if Iraq had anything to do with the lack of terrorist activities in America. There are so many variables and actions that were taken during the same period that it would be impossible to say. Saying that doesn't take away from the sacrafices happening in Iraq. The truth is not partisan or belonging to any particular country or agenda. As a soldier, sailor, airman or marine... we serve to protect those who speech is unpopular. Protecting speech we agree with is easy. Letting those that we disagree with is a sign of what we want to show to the world. Thanks,

I am also in the Marine Corps. I have lost 3 Marine buddies over thier. My Best friend though was in the Army. He was also my College roomate. Why does 30% of Americans think they are safe and life is great behind the white picket fence? It is a false reality! Do you want your kids at school to be tortured for a few days then killed with a gunshot or shrapnel? Do you want them to drink Piss for breakfast? Do you want your wife or husband to be barried in rubel from thier office building? Do you want to get blown up because a car bomb went off 15 ft. from you? We live in a false sense of safety. Yeah ok, the United States and a few allies were wrong about weapons of Mass destruction....but we all thought Saddam had them. Now we have to defeat Terrorism. Its sad that people think you can negotiate with Terrorists. Sure we will release prisoners if you do not behead our citezen. Doing this will make them do it even more. We have to suufer these casulties. Casualties happen durring war. Parents need to stop ripping on the government when thier son or daughter comes home in a body bag. They are disgracing thier son and daughter. If they were alive they would be very upset. When you join the military we do it for a reason. We even swear in. We are here to fight. I am proud of all my friends who have fought and who have died for the fight agaisnt terrorism. I think of them everyday. It is very sad they are dead but I am very proud they risked thier lives to try to protect are citezens and citezens of other countries. I am a democrat and I will not vote for Kerry. He cannot make up his mind from day to day. Have we gad a terrorist attack in our country since 9/11? No, we should consider that fortunate. Look at Israel and Spain, Turkey, Russia, Indonesia, and Austrailia. Something is going right in the US. I cannot believe tree huggers out thier. You call yourself an AMerican citezen? I think you just do this for recognition and attention. It is sick what you do. Sorry for mispellings but i am very upset at you low life Americans out thier who want attention.

I am also in the Marine Corps. I have lost 3 Marine buddies over thier. My Best friend though was in the Army. He was also my College roomate. Why does 30% of Americans think they are safe and life is great behind the white picket fence? It is a false reality! Do you want your kids at school to be tortured for a few days then killed with a gunshot or shrapnel? Do you want them to drink Piss for breakfast? Do you want your wife or husband to be barried in rubel from thier office building? Do you want to get blown up because a car bomb went off 15 ft. from you? We live in a false sense of safety. Yeah ok, the United States and a few allies were wrong about weapons of Mass destruction....but we all thought Saddam had them. Now we have to defeat Terrorism. Its sad that people think you can negotiate with Terrorists. Sure we will release prisoners if you do not behead our citezen. Doing this will make them do it even more. We have to suufer these casulties. Casualties happen durring war. Parents need to stop ripping on the government when thier son or daughter comes home in a body bag. They are disgracing thier son and daughter. If they were alive they would be very upset. When you join the military we do it for a reason. We even swear in. We are here to fight. I am proud of all my friends who have fought and who have died for the fight agaisnt terrorism. I think of them everyday. It is very sad they are dead but I am very proud they risked thier lives to try to protect are citezens and citezens of other countries. I am a democrat and I will not vote for Kerry. He cannot make up his mind from day to day. Have we gad a terrorist attack in our country since 9/11? No, we should consider that fortunate. Look at Israel and Spain, Turkey, Russia, Indonesia, and Austrailia. Something is going right in the US. I cannot believe tree huggers out thier. You call yourself an AMerican citezen? I think you just do this for recognition and attention. It is sick what you do. Sorry for mispellings but i am very upset at you low life Americans out thier who want attention.

I am also in the Marine Corps. I have lost 3 Marine buddies over thier. My Best friend though was in the Army. He was also my College roomate. Why does 30% of Americans think they are safe and life is great behind the white picket fence? It is a false reality! Do you want your kids at school to be tortured for a few days then killed with a gunshot or shrapnel? Do you want them to drink Piss for breakfast? Do you want your wife or husband to be barried in rubel from thier office building? Do you want to get blown up because a car bomb went off 15 ft. from you? We live in a false sense of safety. Yeah ok, the United States and a few allies were wrong about weapons of Mass destruction....but we all thought Saddam had them. Now we have to defeat Terrorism. Its sad that people think you can negotiate with Terrorists. Sure we will release prisoners if you do not behead our citezen. Doing this will make them do it even more. We have to suufer these casulties. Casualties happen durring war. Parents need to stop ripping on the government when thier son or daughter comes home in a body bag. They are disgracing thier son and daughter. If they were alive they would be very upset. When you join the military we do it for a reason. We even swear in. We are here to fight. I am proud of all my friends who have fought and who have died for the fight agaisnt terrorism. I think of them everyday. It is very sad they are dead but I am very proud they risked thier lives to try to protect are citezens and citezens of other countries. I am a democrat and I will not vote for Kerry. He cannot make up his mind from day to day. Have we gad a terrorist attack in our country since 9/11? No, we should consider that fortunate. Look at Israel and Spain, Turkey, Russia, Indonesia, and Austrailia. Something is going right in the US. I cannot believe tree huggers out thier. You call yourself an AMerican citezen? I think you just do this for recognition and attention. It is sick what you do. Sorry for mispellings but i am very upset at you low life Americans out thier who want attention.

I am also in the Marine Corps. I have lost 3 Marine buddies over thier. My Best friend though was in the Army. He was also my College roomate. Why does 30% of Americans think they are safe and life is great behind the white picket fence? It is a false reality! Do you want your kids at school to be tortured for a few days then killed with a gunshot or shrapnel? Do you want them to drink Piss for breakfast? Do you want your wife or husband to be barried in rubel from thier office building? Do you want to get blown up because a car bomb went off 15 ft. from you? We live in a false sense of safety. Yeah ok, the United States and a few allies were wrong about weapons of Mass destruction....but we all thought Saddam had them. Now we have to defeat Terrorism. Its sad that people think you can negotiate with Terrorists. Sure we will release prisoners if you do not behead our citezen. Doing this will make them do it even more. We have to suufer these casulties. Casualties happen durring war. Parents need to stop ripping on the government when thier son or daughter comes home in a body bag. They are disgracing thier son and daughter. If they were alive they would be very upset. When you join the military we do it for a reason. We even swear in. We are here to fight. I am proud of all my friends who have fought and who have died for the fight agaisnt terrorism. I think of them everyday. It is very sad they are dead but I am very proud they risked thier lives to try to protect are citezens and citezens of other countries. I am a democrat and I will not vote for Kerry. He cannot make up his mind from day to day. Have we gad a terrorist attack in our country since 9/11? No, we should consider that fortunate. Look at Israel and Spain, Turkey, Russia, Indonesia, and Austrailia. Something is going right in the US. I cannot believe tree huggers out thier. You call yourself an AMerican citezen? I think you just do this for recognition and attention. It is sick what you do. Sorry for mispellings but i am very upset at you low life Americans out thier who want attention.

My pleasure, Bill from Oregan - but remember, it is always easier to see something when one is sitting on the outside. You are living proof that all Americans are not spoilt and ungrateful - you are all very special people and I hope that I can visit your country one day.

Jacoba, you are so right. We have had freedom for so long too many take it for granted. Most do not understand the hardships our forfathers went through to give us the rights and freedom we now so enjoy. Nor do most understand the sacrifices our brave men and women in the armed forces make to allow us to retain the things we have. It is a sad affair when someone from another country has to remind us of just what we do have, but I applaud you for giving all of us this jolt of reality.

I am a South African woman and mother of three. I am inclined to agree with Christopher from Akron, Ohio in as much as I can - all my knowledge is derived from the internet and local newspapers. What I have to say is, quite probably, worthless to you guys but I feel like having my say. You are all so fortunate to live in a democracy, to have the opportunities that you do have, to be as free as you are and always have been and to be able to say exactly what you want when you want. Yes - I am sure that your politicians suck - but don't they all - no matter where they come from? (Excepting for our beloved Nelson Mandela, of course.) No matter how bad or how evil your guys (politicians) are - they have given you freedom which is something that many other people in many other countries cannot take for granted. Criticize by all means - but never forget to be grateful for what you have.

Dave, A good puppet master wouldn't let the strings be seen.

Yes I agree there is "slant" but the name used in the industry is Directional drilling. The pipe doesnt actually slant from the surface it gradually curves to its target. It has to be an extremely deep hole to cover great distances. My original post on this subject was, as most know, made to piss off whats his name LOL. Speaking of which, where is Christopher. Love to see him take Jim up on his bet.

don't think I agree with these individuals opions but there is such a thing as slant drilling. How do you think they get the oil from under the great lakes? They can not put oil riggs in the waters Michigan does not allow it. It is also a little known secret that we take any oil from under the great lakes but it is very very tightly regulated.

Christopher from Ohio...it's time to finalize our wager on the Presidential election. Kerry's ahead in most of the polls I've seen, so you should be feeling confident about your chances. Here's my suggestion: I'll bet $100 that Bush wins, and if he does you'll agree to donate $100 to the Pearl S. Buck Foundation. If Kerry wins, I agree to donate $100 to any non-political charity that you designate. What do you say? This is an opportunity for each of us to put up or shut up while at the same time doing some good for society in general. What could be more "progressive" than that? Noam and Ramsay will be proud of us!

Christopher from Ohio...it's time to finalize our wager on the Presidential election. Kerry's ahead in most of the polls I've seen, so you should be feeling confident about your chances. Here's my suggestion: I'll bet $100 that Bush wins, and if he does you'll agree to donate $100 to the Pearl S. Buck Foundation. If Kerry wins, I agree to donate $100 to any non-political charity that you designate. What do you say? This is an opportunity for each of us to put up or shut up while at the same time doing some good for society in general. What could be more "progressive" than that? Noam and Ramsay will be proud of us!

Christopher from Ohio...it's time to finalize our wager on the Presidential election. Kerry's ahead in most of the polls I've seen, so you should be feeling confident about your chances. Here's my suggestion: I'll bet $100 that Bush wins, and if he does you'll agree to donate $100 to the Pearl S. Buck Foundation. If Kerry wins, I agree to donate $100 to any non-political charity that you designate. What do you say? This is an opportunity for each of us to put up or shut up while at the same time doing some good for society in general. What could be more "progressive" than that? Noam and Ramsay will be proud of us!

Christopher from Ohio...it's time to finalize our wager on the Presidential election. Kerry's ahead in most of the polls I've seen, so you should be feeling confident about your chances. Here's my suggestion: I'll bet $100 that Bush wins, and if he does you'll agree to donate $100 to the Pearl S. Buck Foundation. If Kerry wins, I agree to donate $100 to any non-political charity that you designate. What do you say? This is an opportunity for each of us to put up or shut up while at the same time doing some good for society in general. What could be more "progressive" than that? Noam and Ramsay will be proud of us!

First of all... there isn't a right to beat someone because you don't like what that person has to say. Popular speech is easy to defend... it is protecting the unpopular speech that sets us apart from others. Beating people to make them appreciate the freedoms they have isn't quite logical either. Arguing based upon political advertisements also isn't quite a smart thing to do... because they are all misleading and only if you search out the real truth can you be sure that you aren't being manipulated. Now... for a bit of Political Science... America is a two party system. Whether we like it or not. Therefore, to say that we are going to vote the "person" and not the party makes no sense. Each person should study the agenda (platform) of each political party and vote for the candidate/party which most closely meets their beliefs. Anything else is illogical and voting for a president who is a member of the opposite party that you believe is best basically cancels out your vote. Because then you might end up with your party in control of the Congress and the other party in control of the Executive branch... both at odds with each other. Interestingly, countries such as England have the Prime Minister who is the ranking member of the Parliment... therefore, the executive and the legislative branches are members of the same party. Bottom line... whether a person voted this way or that (you never really know what are in the bills unless you completely read them, since they often throw in unpleasant laws in with popular laws), who beats their chest the loudest (neither party wants to lose this "war on terrorism") or whatever... in a two party system you need to vote the party you feel most reflects your beliefs. Nothing personal against anyone... just thought that it was important to remember how the system works. Thanks,

Hello. I am not very poitical. However, I read many of the comments on this post. It's truly amazing. I feel like everyone tries so hard to sound educated and important. Something that might enhance all of your cases: LEARN HOW TO SPELL. I am SO proud of America's educational system!

The facts given here against Bush are mostly wrong. A few things are correct but not many. The Geneva convention was writen for soldiers who wear a uniform anyone without a uniform is considered a spy and can be executed under the terms of this agreement. Hello you liberal nuts who love killers more than your own children a terroist does not wear a uniform of any country. The Iraqi soldiers captured in uniform where treated within the rules of the Geneva Convention that means they where given clothes, baths, and basic neccesitys and not tortured. Our country is not perfect but we are by no means involved in genocide and all those crazy comments made above. I was a soldier and treated prisoners fairly and would never do anything wrong. Kerry was in the vietnam war but admiral Zumwalt did not like his performance as a soldier. Kerry the brave man he was kept running his fiberglass boat aground killing inocent civilians. He never did kill the enemy and had to be recalled for repetitive accidents involving civilians. He got a purple heart for being clumsy or a coward not sure how he wrecked his boat so much. So Bush was in the National Guard big deal you liberals where crying about coming home anyway. Why not be glad Bush was not involved directly. At least Bush did not kill any civilians like Kerry did what a guy. NOT

The facts given here against Bush are mostly wrong. A few things are correct but not many. The Geneva convention was writen for soldiers who wear a uniform anyone without a uniform is considered a spy and can be executed under the terms of this agreement. Hello you liberal nuts who love killers more than your own children a terroist does not wear a uniform of any country. The Iraqi soldiers captured in uniform where treated within the rules of the Geneva Convention that means they where given clothes, baths, and basic neccesitys and not tortured. Our country is not perfect but we are by no means involved in genocide and all those crazy comments made above. I was a soldier and treated prisoners fairly and would never do anything wrong. Kerry was in the vietnam war but admiral Zumwalt did not like his performance as a soldier. Kerry the brave man he was kept running his fiberglass boat aground killing inocent civilians. He never did kill the enemy and had to be recalled for repetitive accidents involving civilians. He got a purple heart for being clumsy or a coward not sure how he wrecked his boat so much. So Bush was in the National Guard big deal you liberals where crying about coming home anyway. Why not be glad Bush was not involved directly. At least Bush did not kill any civilians like Kerry did what a guy. NOT

The facts given here against Bush are mostly wrong. A few things are correct but not many. The Geneva convention was writen for soldiers who wear a uniform anyone without a uniform is considered a spy and can be executed under the terms of this agreement. Hello you liberal nuts who love killers more than your own children a terroist does not wear a uniform of any country. The Iraqi soldiers captured in uniform where treated within the rules of the Geneva Convention that means they where given clothes, baths, and basic neccesitys and not tortured. Our country is not perfect but we are by no means involved in genocide and all those crazy comments made above. I was a soldier and treated prisoners fairly and would never do anything wrong. Kerry was in the vietnam war but admiral Zumwalt did not like his performance as a soldier. Kerry the brave man he was kept running his fiberglass boat aground killing inocent civilians. He never did kill the enemy and had to be recalled for repetitive accidents involving civilians. He got a purple heart for being clumsy or a coward not sure how he wrecked his boat so much. So Bush was in the National Guard big deal you liberals where crying about coming home anyway. Why not be glad Bush was not involved directly. At least Bush did not kill any civilians like Kerry did what a guy. NOT

I pled guilty- At least he stood up like a man and admitted he did wrong. NOBODY on this earth is perfect. I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. - Of this you have NO proof, just McCoullough's adhomynm attacks. IF you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know that AWOL constitutes a dishonorable discharge, yet Bush's shows HONORABLE Discharge, so obviously he wasn't AWOL. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam. Once again, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that during the Vietnam war, the ONLY position that WOULD have gone to the front lines in the Guard was a pilot. Bush volunteered to be a pilot, so how was he avoiding service? ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in US history to enter office with a criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week. I spent the US surplus and effectively bankrupted the US Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in US history. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the US stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month. - Amazing how someone who is supposedly "SOOOO STUPID" has the power to cause all of this. You obviously forgot about 9/11 and how it affected the economy. That and the fact that in 2000 we were already in a recession thanks to Clinton falsly inflating economic figures. I refused to allow inspector's access to US "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. - The Geneva Convention only applies when Congress grants a State of War. They refused to do so, therefore the Convention does not apply. These are just a few that I pointed out. Is Bush perfect? NO. I have serious issues with MANY of his programs. However, lets play Devil advocate and look at Kerry: I hold the worst attendence record of the US Senate for year 2003 - 27%. Even the loony left winger Ted Kennedy was there 98% of the time. I WILL to raise your taxes as soon as I take office. Obviously, he feels that married people SHOULD be punished when paying taxes. Not to mention that taxpayers are among the most taxed in the WORLD. I feel that our military should fight battles with P-51's and P-40's, Colt 1911 pistols and 5 shot M-1 Garands. I have voted down every military improvement INCLUDING payraises, since I have been a senator. I voted against the F117, B-1, B-2, F-22, the Apache, the Commanche, the Abrams tank, and EVERY small arms/rifle since taking office. I am the largest accepter of Special Interest money in history. Even more so than Ted Kennedy! I had the unmitigated gall to associate myself with Jane Fonda and throw medal across the fence in Washington upon my 4 month tour in Vietnam. But the funniest part is that THEY WEREN'T EVEN MINE!!!! I still have mine. I consistently blame Bush for jobs going overseas, but I won't dare tell anyone that my wife owns of the largest companies to send jobs overseas - the Heinz Corporation. They currently have 58 factories overseas, more than any other US corporation. All of these FACTS can be verified by the Congressional Record for 2003 and prior years, as well the companies own website. Once again, is Bush perfect? NO. But he is the better choice of the two for the next 4 years.

Would You Hire This Man...? RESUME GEORGE W. BUSH 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington, DC 20520 EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE: Law Enforcement: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available. Military: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam. College: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader. PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for US Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas. ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I changed Texas pollution laws to favour power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history. With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes. ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in US history to enter office with a criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week. I spent the US surplus and effectively bankrupted the US Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in US history. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the US stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month. I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her. I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a US President. I am the all-time US and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in US history, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the US Supreme Court during my election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history. I changed the US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in US history. I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government. I've broken more international treaties than any President in US history. I am the first President in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the US from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspector's access to US "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election). I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in US history. I garnered the most sympathy for the US after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the US the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history. I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind. I am the first President in US history to order an unprovoked pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of US citizens, and the world community. I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families - in wartime. In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends. I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfil my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden [sic] to justice. RECORDS AND REFERENCES: All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view. All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004

The invasion of Iraq was planned long before 9-11(which American's wrought upon themself's). The Bush "REICH" stole the 2nd largest oil feild on earth. Dictator Bush then used the event of 9-11 to justify the need to produce the new FOURTH REICH, by allowing the passing of the "Patriot Act". I challenge any one to get a "complete" copy. The U.S. is a in the final stage of it's long history of murder, genocide,racism,and human right's violation's, as no empire has lasted long that comitted atrocitie's against humanity. If the previous author's of other "Rebuttals" went to Iraq or elsewhere to fight against TYRANNY and injustice then I challenge them to go to 1600 Pennsylvania ave. and wage war there. The world's GREATEST TERRORIST ORGANISATION!

First off this is a political message not a Ripoff Report at all. I know many people feel sure they have all the facts but no one does. The only one who knows everything is GOD. Here are some facts many mass graves where found in Iraq with thousands of dead Iraqi citizens killed and murdered by Saddam and the Bath party members.Why is it wrong to gas Jews but OK to gas Kurds? Fact is Saddam did gas and kill a large number of Kurds thousands. How did Saddam support Al Queda ? He gave them money and allowed them refuge in his country Iraq. Saddam also encouraged Al Queda to attack America by saying we are a bad people and evil country. He let clerics called mullahs hold services calling for war against the US also. I know some people will not hear my message and thats OK. As a soldier I am glad to protect both informed people and those who feel they know. Bland Terry Virginia

Gregg, Right thing for wrong reason? I suppose "...open season on rag-heads..." would be the right reason? I.E. all Arabs are beasts and deserve to die - easy interpretation. You wear your racism on your sleeve and its pathetic. I think its pretty amusing to read your complaints about "poorly presented opinions" when your opinion is based on complete ignorance and unjustified arrogance. You are a gun-weilding, trigger-happy fanatic ready shoot at the first thing that someone else identifies as a threat. To me, that makes you no different than a suicide bomber. Funny that you claim to be a free man, when in reality you are a slave to your own narrow generalizations. Frank: Why don't you tell us how you really feel about those in opposition to the war? From the looks of it, you've got us all pegged. And nice follow-up with the overly cliched "mr. internet" jab. Guess what... Gore fought for funding for ARPANET, the 80's military precursor to the internet that you are benefitting from right now. Is that the best you got though? Cause I can go all day with random acts of stupidity by Bush. How about, "...working hard to put food on your family." Or, "Families is where our nation finds hope, where our wings take dream." Coming from a guy who never ran a successful business in his life, I'm not surprised. You think we are winning the war on terrorism? Wow! The person who was responsible for planning and funding the 9/11 attack is still at large, and has operational cells MOSTLY outside of Iraq. Like you said, I wish I had the same intel as you. Oh wait, I almost forgot the conservative train of thought; lets think short term by placing people like Saddam Hussein in power, giving people like Osama Bin Laden money and weapons, give numerous justifications to an invasion to cover the fact that we were asleep at the wheel (long vacation and noon naps take their toll on national security) and hey - lets sell weapons to Iran to fund radicals in South America. When the s**t hits the fan, we'll just blame the liberals! Oh yeah, and while we are talking about things that really matter, why don't we spend $8,000.00 of taxpayer money to cover the breast of a statue so that Ashcroft doesn't have to stand in front of an exposed breast. Oh wait, he already did that, in addition to spending his time chasing down sellers of bongs. Praise God, we are saved from the deadly bong! Gina: I really want to know how and why Saddam funded the al queda attack. (here's a hint: he didn't).

Tammy that had to be the best comment I have seen on this topic yet. In addition I think you are well qualified in your opinions having been around the miltary all of your life. Congrats on your rebuttle. I dont see how Christopher could possibly argue with your statments but alas he and they probably will. Well thats what makes us a great country I guess. Way to go Tammy!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Gregg, and I am a free man. Diversity, it IS our greatest asset. The arabs on our side give us insight and access to the enemy mind that we would never have otherwise. Christopher (my daughter says you are gay) makes us double-check our logic and reasoning, and our foundation for our stance is firmer and more entrenched. A FREE press, right to bear arms, and the ability to petition the government for redress. We have a wonderful country and an over-bearing government. And the people living in s**t huts and holes in the ground hate that. President Bush did the right thing for the wrong reason. Stole the election? Algore would still be shitting his pants. Personally, I feel that if people are going to die and things be broken, let it be their people and their things. Little Hadji had better learn to stop drop and roll while begging for an American candy bar on American TV. Hey, Dubya, just open season on rag-heads in Iraq and provide free transportation. I'll bring my own weapon and probably won't need a ride back. Intel and support would be cool, too. d**n, I wish I hadn't of had a bum knee! I could have been a U.S.Marine instead of going into the Nuclear Reactor Operator Training Program. I can still watch your six if we get there, sarge. Keep on fanning the flames, Christopher. Even though you are a p***y arm-chair quarterback I appreciate your ability to energize and marshall the thinking of warriors opposed to your poorly presented opinion. Diversity is great and we need duck sickers like you. Oh yeah, our military is getting experience far beyond the cost and, in my opinion, has lost less people than than in equivalently priced training operations. Peace is a nice concept and about as likely as world-wide communism. Oh, and Janet, Your husband was honorable, patriotic, and a hero; you shame his sacrifice. I hope you haven't warped his son too badly. Clue us in, did you turn down the monthly checks? (And, Ed, is this Joe really the same Joe from the referenced post? I find it hard to believe.)

Come on guys, the Bleeding-Heart, Tree-Hugging Enivronmentalist Wacked-out, Long-Haired, Dope-Smoking, Yugo-Driving, Card carrying ACLU/PETA members are right! Let's put the blinders on, turn-on Peter Jennings, hang with Hanoi Jane, as we are 'Like' heading to the mall for 'Like' a Latte and 'Like' maybe a Dipsy Chicks CD... We all know what 'Mr. Internet' would have done. James-PA, where do you get your Intellegence? (2/19). I need to fire my guy. I'm not getting the scoop you are. Bill-OR, if they all left the country, who would we have to make fun of? Come on Chris (Akron), how can you bash the right wingers and at the same time say we are being brainwashed by all of the Liberal Bias in the news media. Doesn't make sense to me. On reputations; I guess it is better for the country if the Pres gets a BJ,rather than to try and make the world somewhat safer. Makes him a STUD, doesn't it? Oops, I forgot that is the Liberals train(ed) of thought. All party and play By the way GB senior was a pilot in WWII. Might need to put down the comic book and research a little before you make comments. David-Bullhead, ease up on Chris a little. If you don't let him win every once in a while, he won't want to play with you anymore. Also inform Mr. Pacifist Joe, that you live in a Double-wide not a trailer! There is a difference! In reading Joe's last post, surely he was the one who rode the small school bus. There is no arguing with the left/pacifists on this issue, nor with any of the conspiracy theroies, deficit issues (by the way,it costs money to fight a war), job losses, etc... The bottom line is, though not over by any means, we are winning the war on terror. The economy is growing, no matter how the left spins it. The John F'n Kerry's of the world don't have a leg to stand on. They know this, and are desperate. Chris is right...The First Amendment allows for freedom of speech. It doesn't require it to be rational, or intelligent. So let them preach on brother. Our standing and credibility will contiue to rise as they continue to talk.

Ok, I have read these debates plus many others and I usually don't respond because I think that it just turns into a flame war, but I will this time. This is my opinion, but first some background information that will help you understand. I grew up in the military. My father was under Carter, Reagan and got out just before Bush Senior got elected. My husband was in the military under Reagan, Bush, CLinton and still Bush. He is close to retirement. We love the military. He was in Desert Storm under Bush for a just cause when Saddam invaded Kuwait. Many people were against that too because they thought it was all because of oil. My husband went because it was his duty and like it or not. We both disagreed with Bush Seniors decision not to go in and finish the job and take Saddam out then and hold him for international war crimes for what he did with the people of Kuwait. Saddam invaded Kuwait because he wanted their oil and their money because he was dead broke due to his Iranian-Iraq war. For those younger folk, Iraq and Iran were in a bitter war that ended in a stalemate and both Iraq and Iran were dirt poor, flat broke as a result of it. We never finished the job because Bush Senior thought it would be too risky politically to do so. Sounds like Vietnam. We lost Vietnam because our leaders were too busy worrying about the political risks instead of finishing the job that they had started to do. And our soldiers took the blame. In addition, the United Nations assured us that they could keep Saddam inline and that they would send in inspectors to do their job. So we in our naivete believed them. Little did we know that Germany, Russia, and France were making lucrative deals with Saddam Hussein which involved oil for food, and had made some oil refining deals which their companies got exclusive rights to and they made billions. Gosh that oil word is so dirty but then oil is a dirty business. For the record for those who are obsessed with Oil and thinking that we are so in love with Oil that we went into Iraq for it, let me help to enlighten you. Iraq only produces about 10 percent of the world's oil supply. Ninety percent of the Oil supply is produced by countries that have been friends of the United States for years. As for oil production we rank 12th in our own oil production. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw249.shtml http://www.lookoutmtn.com/Documents/Sources_of_United_States_Oil_Supply.pdf I gave three sources here that show that the United States have no real need of Iraq oil and never has. We have got way too many supply sources that Iraq is not even a factor. We also have a great resource of oil in Alaska but we are not allowed to drill there because the environmentalists are worried we might hurt the caribou. Now that I have said what I am going to say about the ridiculous oil argument, I am going to move onto other things. I am getting real tired with all the labels that keep getting thrown out. I watch the news and have read the reports, and I can't really find where the President is some sort of conniving lying rascal. I just see a guy who is a terrible public speaker trying to do the best that he can with what he has got to work with. The CIA gave him reports that said he might have nucleur and chemical weapons. Saddam said he had chemical weapons and he would gas our soldiers. Do you remember that? Clinton believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction which is why he didn't take him on. Kerry believed he had weapons of mass destruction which is why he voted for the weapons. Everyone thought he had weapons of mass destruction. Just because Bush's information was wrong doesn't mean he is a liar and that he is manipulating us. I see a lot of hysterical, ranting people trying to put words in his mouth that he didn't say (if you don't believe me watch his next State of the Union's address and tape it and then go for the next week and watch the spin begin and how words are edited and taken out of context). I am not sure how I feel about the war and it really doesn't matter because I don't have access to all the information. I will never see the intelligence reports he has access to and can never reveal because it would put many people in danger. So I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. And I am saying until HE PROVES OTHERWISE, not until some fanatic extremist who has a grudge against him decides he said this and he said that. THat is my opinion. I also agree to just plain bad mouth someone when you don't have the facts especially if he is the president just is not right.

Like I said Joe your comments are out of topic. I will respond to you in the Tupper Lake Reports where this kind of nonsense belongs. Everyone shud read Report #29533 in addition to the one I mentioned above to see what caliber of a person Joe is. It is you that uses the Reports for your own personal agenda to attack those that are weaker than you. Your right I live for this Joe. Exposing vermim like yourself is my specialty as you will soon find out but as a courtesy to the other fine folks here I will keep my responses to you on the Tupper Lake Reports as you seem to find that area interesting. LMAO@Joe who cant even make his mind up where he lives.

Thank you Joe for that tirade of poorly spelled personal attacks. If your goal is to cultivate the belief that Canada is filled with semi-literate imbeciles, congratulations, you've succeeded. The next time you feel the need to savage somebody on-line, perhaps you should consult a dictionary. Or better yet, log off. This forum is meant for civilized discussion, not for you to air your personal grievances and deficiencies. Hypocrisy aside, this forum is for consumer protection issues. While this political discussion contains a fair degree of insight, Rip Off Report would hardly seem to be the right the venue for it. Many of you feel strongly about the current US administration, but better avenues of expression could be found within your local media or government, or on dedicated political forums.

See david you just proved your trailer park worth, I absolutely get infused with joy when you say the things you do. This rippoffreport is like a soap opera to you isn't it. The ripoffreport is davids own little soap ha lmao what a life. David is also one of the people that live for the rummor as he did in his last post, hey moron I got everything, judges and child care workers don't hardly ever give a man sole custody and never do if what you heard from a thirdpaty faimly member of my ex who was never their is true. Give your head a shake tard. David most certainly rode the little bus to school for that grade six degree he gots himself. Hey david just for laughs whats your love life like, don't tell us a woman will actually have your fat a*s we know that is not true.

See david you just proved your trailer park worth, I absolutely get infused with joy when you say the things you do. This rippoffreport is like a soap opera to you isn't it. The ripoffreport is davids own little soap ha lmao what a life. David is also one of the people that live for the rummor as he did in his last post, hey moron I got everything, judges and child care workers don't hardly ever give a man sole custody and never do if what you heard from a thirdpaty faimly member of my ex who was never their is true. Give your head a shake tard. David most certainly rode the little bus to school for that grade six degree he gots himself. Hey david just for laughs whats your love life like, don't tell us a woman will actually have your fat a*s we know that is not true.

See david you just proved your trailer park worth, I absolutely get infused with joy when you say the things you do. This rippoffreport is like a soap opera to you isn't it. The ripoffreport is davids own little soap ha lmao what a life. David is also one of the people that live for the rummor as he did in his last post, hey moron I got everything, judges and child care workers don't hardly ever give a man sole custody and never do if what you heard from a thirdpaty faimly member of my ex who was never their is true. Give your head a shake tard. David most certainly rode the little bus to school for that grade six degree he gots himself. Hey david just for laughs whats your love life like, don't tell us a woman will actually have your fat a*s we know that is not true.

See david you just proved your trailer park worth, I absolutely get infused with joy when you say the things you do. This rippoffreport is like a soap opera to you isn't it. The ripoffreport is davids own little soap ha lmao what a life. David is also one of the people that live for the rummor as he did in his last post, hey moron I got everything, judges and child care workers don't hardly ever give a man sole custody and never do if what you heard from a thirdpaty faimly member of my ex who was never their is true. Give your head a shake tard. David most certainly rode the little bus to school for that grade six degree he gots himself. Hey david just for laughs whats your love life like, don't tell us a woman will actually have your fat a*s we know that is not true.

That was amusing Joe. See Joe here is a wife beater and child abuser. See Rip Off Report #21722 where his childs family exposes him for what he really is. I gave my comments about him in that report so he comes here to retaliate. Now you say no one should respond to me. LMAO what do you think you just did? Why dont you take your own advice. You could at least stay on topic idiot. We are talking about Bush dumbass. You are a coward Joe . Yeah your pretty brave around women and little girls and behind your keyboard I'll grant you that. We are having an adult conversation here little boy go play somewhere else. Now I hope you don't get mad and sock up your new wife. I feel sorry for your little girl. What a poor excuse for a father you are. Take your BS back to your own Report it has nothing to do with this one. Oh and one more thing I havent retracted anything. I'm still against war protesters, terrorists and wife beating child abusing jerks like you. Proud of it too. (big smile)

David what a disturbing life you lead, I believe I am only touching the surface with my findings. People, David here likes to go from report to report and cause the focus of the report to be directed at him as he has done with this report to. David you sad pathetic excuse for a human, is their anything in the ripoffreport you don't have your stinking fingers into. David likes to make comments on things that he has no real experience with, he simply does a search on the topic, picks a few big words in his results, and posts them here. I am betting david lives with his mother most certainly in a trailer, and types his feces on the net after the springer show, right david. David seems to need to be putting other people down all the time I suspect because he was the brunt of some serious bully behavior in school and his daddy molested him while he was drunk. The newest tidbit I have learned about David is his racist side, good to know david ya moron thanks. David says stuff he means and then retracts them later when he sees how stupid he was as he did in this report. David discredits himself no need to respond to him.

Ladies and Gentlemen: I originally chimed in on some of the issues here, because I felt items needed to be put in a little better perspective. I can see now that, this pursuit was in error. I was under the impression that this web site was created to inform others as to company rip-offs. I did not know this was a political platform. After reviewing all of the discussions, although some have done a little research, I found that unfortunately many of the statements made in this very long debate, were without fact or merit. Other statements were simply an attack on the constitution and our commander in chief, and again not appropriate for this format. Of course the 1st amendment doesn't allow many of the comments rendered here to be stricken but, I have learned that before you speak with passion, you should research the facts without interjection of that passion. You may not like what you find, but spinning the facts to fit your view, damages not only you, but everyone else. In Closing I would appreciate it if, rip-off report remove me from their e-mailing list and I hope all of the combatants in these articles take a minute to reflect on what they have injected over the last twelve months. I believe if they used as much energy to changing what they claim to dislike, as they have used to complain and bash what is or is not history, there could be change for the better of all. Respectfully Rick Carlton P. S. I have traveled much of the world and believe many of you need to get out of your shell and view the world as it really is. But be careful, you may find that what you believe to be the truth in your limited past, is completely different from what is really the truth and the future. Good Luck!!

James, I had thought I was finished with posting on this, but since you seen fit to use me as an stepping stone, I will. First off, I don't have to ask "what would Gore have done?" We already know what he would have done. He has proven that time after time. Now the candidate of choice seems to be Kerry. We don't have to ask what he would do. He too has proven over and over how his feeling lie. Why is it that he is now saying that Vietnam and his service there should not be used for political purposes? Perhaps he is remembering how he turned his back on his own comrades and told lie after lie about them? Perhaps he is afraid that his dealings with Jane Fonda may come back to haunt him? Besides, it was he and his political party that took the first shot when they accused Bush of being awol. Now that his words and actions are biting him in the a*s he does not think they should be used? However, my post was not meant to be a political attack on anyone. It was intended to voice my opinion on the current war in Iraq. I and many many fine young men and women fought and died so that we could all have the freedom to speak our opinions without fear. Call me patriotic, call me crazy or call me spiteful. I don't care because I have heard all the bad names our fighting forces are called by people in our own country that have no idea what it is like to lay their life on the line in the service of others. A storng army needs an equally strong leader and that is exactly what we have in President Bush.

I don't agree with allot of decisions Bush made but I will say this. He is genuinely concerned with the security of our great Nation and its people. Having one of these democrats elected who base their whole campaign strategy on Bashing Bush instead of focusing on keeping us safe from any other attacks will leave us open. Bush symbolizes our vigorous determination to pursue those who compromise peace and I believe without this those who commit evil will see this as a weakness provoking another attack. That is just my humble opinion. All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Can we all Agree that Saddam was Evil? I hope so. P.S. Jim from Aurora add me to the statistic of everyone who supports Christopher's position.

James it's hard to tell whos side your on but you have made some interesting points I believe are worth pondering. Perhaps if bin Christopher had put it out the way you did the outrage would not have been as bad. Im not saying I agree with all of what your saying but certainly you have raised my eyebrows. I especially like the part of why didnt we spend some of that money to buy the russian nukes. Do you think that would have been possible? I have just read an article of a alleged interview with one of the leaders of the terrorist who claims they have 5 of the old russian nukes (100kilo ton each) and 2 pakistan nukes (10kilo tons each) already hidden on US soil. Hopefully this is BS and like you said where will it all stop? What if they do and light them off? How will we respond? Will we nuke every country that has suspected terrorist in it? Man this is scary stuff and I wont even pretend I know the answer. Im just glad Im not Bush and have to make these decisions. But someone must make them.

Jim-- I think you need a reality check. I do in fact see the big picture. I see that if these terrorists are not stopped, this country and YOUR freedom is at stake. Although Sadam was not directly responsible for 9/11, he did fund the terrorists who were responsible. Why don't you pack your bag and book a flight to Iraq. Stay there and see if you cant create a perfect world. I bet you'll be crying, begging and praying to come back to a country like the US. Because you seem to have all the answer's and no one else has figured out how to create the perfect world, why don't you be the first. Unbelievable!

I looked at the length of this and decided to flip a coin. Bush won, y'all can go home now.

I cannot beleive the audacity some people have here. Anti-American? For what? Exercising our first amendment right? For exercising intelligence? Number one: SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SEPT. 11th! Anybody who evokes Sept. 11th as justification for the Iraq war is a simple moron and a sheep. Furthermore, if you think that Bush is some kind of heroic "man of action" - think again. On August 6, 2001 he ignored a report from CIA director Tenet titled, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US." One day later, instead of following up on this report, the US's "man of action" told reporters, while playing golf on vacation, that he was working on national security issues involving (you guessed it) Iraq. This was three days after he signed a funding cut for a program that guards unsecured nukes in the former Soviet Union. So Paul O'Neil's assesment of Bush's priorities was not only correct, but unneccessary, since Bush has admitted it himself. Bill from Athena: I can't stand when people play the "what would Gore have done?" game. Here's one for you - he probably would have continued Clinton's legacy on dealing with terrorism and prevented 9/11 from even happening. Also, terrorists don't attack because they think a country is "soft". That's just an idiotic and completely ignorant idea. Have you ever heard of a country called "Isreal"? They are the definition of "hard" when it comes to dealing with terrorists. And yet, they still attack - so don't think for one minute that this war in Iraq will prevent future terrorist attacks. Most people who support Bush's decision for war (which ever "flavor of the month" it happens to be) don't seem to be capable of looking at a larger, more complete picture (like Gina from Warminster). There's a big difference between not-supporting the troops and saying that you wish they never had to go in the first place. If you support this war, then you are saying that you are willing to send troops to their deaths so that the Iraqi people, who you didn't give two shits about a year ago, can live a little bit better. This war is not about protecting America. To be honest with you, I have no clue what it is about. What is for sure is that thousands of lives have been lost and billions of dollars have been spent and our country is no safer than it was before. BTW - I am sorry if my opinion offends you. I know most of you will not change your minds. However, I will never be so crass, narrow minded, out-of-control and offensive as to suggest that anybody who disagrees should "get the hell out". People with such extreme confidence in their ideals is much more dangerous to this country (like the Islamic Extremists) than a person with an open mind.

Come on and get off the "WMD" and "War for Oil" horse. It's DEAD!!!! So what if we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. How shallow can you be to base your silly arguments on the lack of WMD. Can't you think for one second about anyone other than yourself and your political leaning. There are right now hundreds of thousands of people living without fear. Breathing the first breath of free air they have breathed in over two decades. WMD's are trivial compared to that. But the oppressors are still trying to regain their tyranical control over those people. We need to stay until every last tyrant is either aprehended or snuffed out. Also, the "War for Oil" argument is the weakest of all. If this war was about oil, why are we still paying outrageous prices for gas? And it seems to keep going up. If we went in to Iraq for oil then we should be less than $1.00 at the gas pump. All I can say is, I prefer a man as our national leader who "Might" have missed a few drill days than a man who layed down his arms and in a cowardly way betrayed those he fought next to. A man who, as most North Vietnamese say, gave them the second wind to be victorious when utter defeat was on the horizon. There are many names on "The Wall" who would right now love to spit on the face of John Kerry.

Come on and get off the "WMD" and "War for Oil" horse. It's DEAD!!!! So what if we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. How shallow can you be to base your silly arguments on the lack of WMD. Can't you think for one second about anyone other than yourself and your political leaning. There are right now hundreds of thousands of people living without fear. Breathing the first breath of free air they have breathed in over two decades. WMD's are trivial compared to that. But the oppressors are still trying to regain their tyranical control over those people. We need to stay until every last tyrant is either aprehended or snuffed out. Also, the "War for Oil" argument is the weakest of all. If this war was about oil, why are we still paying outrageous prices for gas? And it seems to keep going up. If we went in to Iraq for oil then we should be less than $1.00 at the gas pump. All I can say is, I prefer a man as our national leader who "Might" have missed a few drill days than a man who layed down his arms and in a cowardly way betrayed those he fought next to. A man who, as most North Vietnamese say, gave them the second wind to be victorious when utter defeat was on the horizon. There are many names on "The Wall" who would right now love to spit on the face of John Kerry.

Come on and get off the "WMD" and "War for Oil" horse. It's DEAD!!!! So what if we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. How shallow can you be to base your silly arguments on the lack of WMD. Can't you think for one second about anyone other than yourself and your political leaning. There are right now hundreds of thousands of people living without fear. Breathing the first breath of free air they have breathed in over two decades. WMD's are trivial compared to that. But the oppressors are still trying to regain their tyranical control over those people. We need to stay until every last tyrant is either aprehended or snuffed out. Also, the "War for Oil" argument is the weakest of all. If this war was about oil, why are we still paying outrageous prices for gas? And it seems to keep going up. If we went in to Iraq for oil then we should be less than $1.00 at the gas pump. All I can say is, I prefer a man as our national leader who "Might" have missed a few drill days than a man who layed down his arms and in a cowardly way betrayed those he fought next to. A man who, as most North Vietnamese say, gave them the second wind to be victorious when utter defeat was on the horizon. There are many names on "The Wall" who would right now love to spit on the face of John Kerry.

Come on and get off the "WMD" and "War for Oil" horse. It's DEAD!!!! So what if we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. How shallow can you be to base your silly arguments on the lack of WMD. Can't you think for one second about anyone other than yourself and your political leaning. There are right now hundreds of thousands of people living without fear. Breathing the first breath of free air they have breathed in over two decades. WMD's are trivial compared to that. But the oppressors are still trying to regain their tyranical control over those people. We need to stay until every last tyrant is either aprehended or snuffed out. Also, the "War for Oil" argument is the weakest of all. If this war was about oil, why are we still paying outrageous prices for gas? And it seems to keep going up. If we went in to Iraq for oil then we should be less than $1.00 at the gas pump. All I can say is, I prefer a man as our national leader who "Might" have missed a few drill days than a man who layed down his arms and in a cowardly way betrayed those he fought next to. A man who, as most North Vietnamese say, gave them the second wind to be victorious when utter defeat was on the horizon. There are many names on "The Wall" who would right now love to spit on the face of John Kerry.

Honestly, people! This is not the proper forum to be discussing an issue such as our government. It serves no purpose for the visitors of this site.

Just some thoughts ..I came across this discussion a day or so back and all I can say is wow. First, I wont dispute anyone's opinions and I wont do any name calling, I think anyone knows it doesn't get us anywhere. After all, isn't violence what started this whole mess in the first place? America is a melting pot of every race in the world east to west. Because of this, there are many ties throughout the world, many sympathy's and many loved ones. We feel that if there is evil anywhere in the world, we must do our best to remove it. After all wasn't this the whole argument with communism? Today, American is at war with 2 countries, and within ourselves. We send our children overseas to fight for what and die for what is right. Do I think the war with Iraq was just? well I think it would have happened sooner or later. Did Saddam support terrorism? I think that is pretty obvious. But, does Iran? when will we attack them? what about all the other countries that do? when will we attack them? The middle east has been at war with itself since recorded history. If anyone thinks that Americans, England, or for that matter any country can stop this they are wrong. The people within the middle east must do it. Furthermore look at what is happening, we ousted Saddam and yes that was good, but what gives us the right for force democracy on them? shouldn't we let them dictate what kind of government they want? Or maybe we should help put another person like Saddam in power or even the Taliban. I don't like people forcing their values and beliefs on me, and from what I have read here, I don't think anyone does either. So I have to ask, why do we feel we should be doing it there? and above all what gives us the right? Most of the statements you hear from anyone anywhere in the world is leave us alone. Shucks, isn't that what we are saying? they attacked us on 9/11 and yes I think we need to go take care of the people that did that or the countries ( for those who felt is was necessary to say they supported our country I did also in the US Army Field Artillery from 88 to 94 ). So what is the reasoning where they are saying leave us alone, and the people in other countries are saying leave us alone.. what kind of reasoning is that? Lets go back to early America. We were being ruled unfairly and unjustly by another country. We decided to rise up and make a statement. In return, rebellions were fought back and the revolution was starting. OK, just think now if say Spain decided that England was not doing the right thing, and well came here and removed them. During their occupation, they decided to force their form of government and beliefs ( for the sake of argument lets say they were vastly different ) what would we have done? maybe what the people of Iraq are doing now. There are some self proclaimed rebels or terrorist in Iraq now that supported the American ousting but it seems it is an occupation ( yes that is what is now ). In return, they see us as an enemy now. When will we get the hint that these people, like us, want to do things the way they want to? how many more people will die for us to prove we are better? that our form of government is better? or for that matter any form? Am I anti American? not at all? do I support our president? yes. Do I think everything he does is 100% correct? no. Do I think he was AWOL.. no and for that matter, why is it an issue now? I mean that was how many years ago? he was elected.. and he is in office and that's that. Do I think there is anyone better out there then him? shucks I don't know, do I think he is doing a fair job? yes I do. Although, there have been no WMD found yet. About WMD, ok think in an evil manner. What would you do against a force that you know you could not win? I would try to discredit them, and show the world that they are arrogant and wrong. So what would I do? destroy the weapons, sell them off or bury them where they will never be found. So where there weapons? got me. If I knew that, I would be over there showing them where they were at. There is no quick or right solution to this mess. Yes, there are things that seem pretty odd up there in Washington and it is our right and our duty to question them. I think that GWB has some explaining to do as to why he went behind the UN with TB and wiped out a country. Did Iraq need to be dealt with? heck yes.. that little Hitler in power there was a danger to everyone, but again who helped him? We need to realize that when America reaches its arms out, we are playing with the future. No one knows what will happen with Iraq's future nor Afghanistan's. We all remember who aided them (Afghanistan)in the first place when Russia was trying to force themselves on them? I am not saying don't fight, and I am not saying fight. I think there is a mess over there and many more of our children will die because of it. I think it is time for us to pull out and let them deal with it in their own manner. Stop supporting the countries over there and start spending the money on our own country. I don't want pain and suffering in the world just like the majority, but people have to want to change in order to be changed. I think it is obvious that our welcome over there is wearing thin. I know I rambled quite allot and I probably will be called names, or anti whatever. Do I claim to be a scholar on these topics? nope.. just trying to make sense of it like the rest of us. In closing I don't want to see anyone else die, I don't want to see anymore terror or hate, and for God sakes, just don't believe everything that is printed in a publication, article, newspaper or even the news. It is widely known that any and every government uses the media to brainwash people. Does that mean it all is wrong? no not at all, but just because it is in the media doesn't mean it is true. I hope this all turns out ok, and the families of 9/11 or any terrorist attack, or war get their chance to get back at these people, honestly. But, remember violence only breeds violence, I think that is a statement that no one can argue against. God Bless the people and family members who have fought and lost their lives for our future and safety.

Thanks to Diana, Bill and Gina for their comments. Christopher, you're losing ground every day! But let's face facts, your opinion of the "real" reason for the Iraq war is shared by many of the disciples of Noam Chomsky, Ramsay Clark and other left-leaning pundits. May I ask you one small favor? Please, just for a brief period of time, put your preconceived biases and hatred for Bush aside, and consider other possible scenarios. There were actually four reasons for this war: (1) the real reason; (2) the right reason; (3) the moral reason; and (4) the stated reason. The real reason for the Iraq war, which to my knowledge has never been stated by any public official, was that after 9/11, America needed to "hit" someone in the Arab world. Afghanistan was not enough (not enough political impact) because a cult of terrorism had been allowed to build up in that part of the world ....a cult which posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be dismantled. This cult of terrorism decided that plowing hijacked 747's into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was okay; having Muslim clerics and heads of Muslim states (e.g. Saudi Arabia) state publicly their approval of such tactics; having state run newspapers such as Al-Jaheera call people who did such things "martyrs"; and allowing Muslim "charities" (including organizations right here in the USA)to raise money for these "martyrs" was all okay. Not only was all of this seen to be okay, but the radical Muslims and their allies in the U.N. thought that suicide/homicide bombings would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because, as Bill pointed out in his message, we were seen as having gone soft while the Muslim activists were willing to die. The only way to puncture that cult of terrorism was for the American military to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world and fight house- to-house and make it clear to everyone that we will kill the supporters of terrorism, and we are prepared to die to prevent our society from being undermined, infiltrated and attacked by Muslim radicals. We could have just as easily gone into Syria or Saudi Arabia, but we hit Saddam for three reasons: (1) because we could!, (2) because he deserved it, and (3) because Iraq is right in the heart of the Arab world. Don't believe for a minute that this hasn't had an effect. Every neighboring government got the message (including Libya, who quietly surrendered their WMD's). The breeding of terrorism occurred because those governments allowed it to happen, and now they're all on notice>>>>DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!! If you talk to the U.S. military in Iraq they will tell you that this is what the war is all about. The "right reason" for this war was to build a progressive Arab regime in the region following Saddam's demise. The real weapons of mass destruction that threaten us were never Saddam's missles, but the growing numbers of angry and humiliated young Arabs and Muslims who are produced by the the failure of the Arab states, young people who hate America more than they love life. Helping to build a decent Iraq as a model for others in the region and solving the Israeli- Palestinian conflict are necessary steps to bring stability to this region and defuse the ideas of mass destruction. The "moral reason" for the war was that Saddam's regime was an engine of mass destruction and genocide that had killed untold tens of thousands of his own people and neighbors. He had to be stopped... after 9/11 it was untenable to continue to allow a madman to control Iraq. Bush never spelled out the real reason for the war and thought (in retrospect, wrongly) that he could never win public or world support for the right reason or the moral reason, so he opted for the "stated reason", that Saddam had WMD's and posed an immediate threat to America. Hindsight is always 20/20 and there's no deficit of second guessers, but Bush made the decision which he thought was best for America, which is what he's supposed to do. Bush doesn't need to find WMD's to justify this war. Given the discovery of mass graves and the extent of evil of Saddam's regime, we are perfectly justified in occupying that country until a more civilized government can be elected. Even the Secretary General of the U.N. now agrees. Finding WMD's would be helpful to preserve our credibility, but if the intelligence reports were unreliable, then I can only remind you that it wasn't the Bush administration who weakened our intelligence operations. The main source for most of this information comes from a three-time Pulitzer Prize winner who covers the war for none other than the N.Y. Times, Thomas Friedman. I'm not sure how many Pulitzer Prizes that Clark, Chomsky et al have won; maybe you could post that information. Christopher, you appear upset with the Bush tax cuts because you only received a rebate of $75, while the "fat-cats" apparently received much more. Well, the people who earn the most money are taxed more heavily, so it seems logical to me that they would receive a proportionately greater rebate than those who pay less in taxes. The purpose of the tax cuts was to stimulate the economy and assist in creating more jobs as we emerge from the recession. Let's face it, Christopher, we live in a capitalist society and it takes money to make money (by the way, that's true for all societies, capitalist or not). If you're not happy about the tax cuts, don't get mad, get even! Go out and aquire critical high-demand job skills so you can demand top wages from the capitalists. Better yet, become an entrepreneur and use your talent and passion to create a better life for yourself while at the same time creating jobs for America. If you don't appreciate your $75 tax rebate, then don't limit yourself to an occupation which only affords you that amount! Your suggestion regarding the nature of our proposed wager on the election outcome was somewhat disappointing. First, I was dismayed that you would agree to post an apology on this website if Bush wins. You have taken the time to post eloquent arguments to support your position, so don't ever apologize!! My intent is not to have you eat crow; but, since you have posted politically inspired misinformation from the likes of Noam Chomsky and Ramsay Clark, I am obligated to post reasonably contrasting information which I think more accurately reflects the complex reality of the Iraq war, rather than just "Bush lied", if for no other reason than that readers of this message board can have an alternate opinion to consider. I know one thing, my stated position on this matter is much too important for me to offer to post an apology based upon the result of a political election. I respect integrity and I imagine you do too. I would rather debate this issue with someone who actually believes in something and "walks the walk" as I believe you do. I had hoped our friendly wager would be something more substantial, such as we could bet a certain amount of money on the outcome of the election. The winner would choose a charity to which the loser would donate the appropriate sum. Now, for my part, I promise not to designate the Republican National Committee as my charity! I would choose something like the Pearl S. Buck Foundation or perhaps an animal rescue organization like the SPCA. I just finished watching the news and they reported that Kerry is ahead of Bush 55% - 43%. With a sizeable lead like that, I hope to entice you to make a wager. Take care.

Well my lil Iraqi friend I see ur back with more of your anti American rantings. Yes you are wrong. Bush rid the world of your leader. I have to applaud Bush for his honesty. If it had been one of the candidates you back so hard they would have simply had some WMD planted so that traitors and terrrorist supporters like yourself couldnt pop off like your doing now. I was so hoping that one of our smart bombs would have gotten you during your vacation to Bagdad but alas I guess thier not that smart. Your kind is and always will be a minority in this country. Your a coward who hides behind a terminal and when the lights go off you appear and when they are turned on you scurry away just like the cockroach you are Christopher. "I told you so" dont make me laugh any harder at you than I already am. The majoriy are glad your buddy Saddam is gone and as far as I'm concerned the ends justify the means. WMD or no this all worked out for the betterment of all free people. "I told you so" still lmao at yoy Christopher

I am so tired of hearing these people bash President Bush. Is it not clear? How soon people have forgotten 9/11/01. Do you not realize that Pig in Iraq Funds other terrorists. He needed to be stopped. All I know is that it is a huge slap in the face to all our Men and Women in the military. These selfless people are risking their lives so the ignorant people of the US can enjoy all the luxuries in life. I don't know about the rest of you but I enjoy freedom, I like the fact I can worship the "God" of my choice and not be persocuted for it. I like that as a woman, I can make decisions. I would love to have all these Bush haters spend a month in Iraq or maybe even other countries that you have NO control over everyday decisions. I would bet my life, you would be begging to come back to the United States. War is not pretty, it is not fun, but it IS necessary.I am sure Bush didn't wake up one morning and say, Gee I'd love to kill thousands of people today for NO reason" It is necessary to avoid tragic events like 9/11 from ever happening again. Wake Up!

Well I have been coming back in here for days reading all the post and laughing at most of them. Still, all laughter aside, I do need to post a few words myself. First off, yes I was in combat and yes I do know the inside of a VA hospital first hand, so that at least should give me some right to speak. Now I'm not about to sit here and say I agree with everything George Bush has done. In fact I disagree with a lot of his ideas. However, this war is not one of them! All the liberals are trying to say we are only there for the oil. Has anyone stopped to think that if it was only the oil we could have had it the first time? Hussain was nothing but a thug and a terrorist and had to be delt with. It was him that forced the situation by not complying with his own agreed upon cease fire. It was him that refused to let the inspectors look for his WMD. In fact he even bragged that he had them! All he needed do was comply with the first 12 or 13 UN resolutions and this war could have been avoided so if you want to blame someone for the war, put the blame where it belongs. President Bush took an oath that he would protect the people of this fine nation and that is exactly what he is doing. Are we to simply sit and wait for the next attack? The only reason we were attacked on 9/11 was because the rest of the world seen us as soft and unwilling to respond. It had been that way for years under democratic control and if Al Gore had won the election it still would be... and before anyone makes an attack on me, no I am not a republican. I am a democrat, but I will never again vote for one simply because the want nothing more then power and no longer care how many innocent men, women, and children have to die so that they can have it. Unfortunetlly I can see the same thing happening here that happened in Vietnam. The media says we lost that war. Bull sh#t!!! Our brave men and women fought and died so that the rest of us could have the freedom to voice our ideas without fear of reprisal. It was the liberal nay sayers and supposed do-gooders that turned their backs on us that kept us from doing the job we were sent there to do. It was those that chose to oppose the war that caused one hundred and nine of my finest friends to die and for that fact alone I will never fogive nor forget what they done to us. Do any of you for a single second think that our ememies do not read this stuff and laugh at us? They know that all they have to do is wait long enough and turn brother against brother and they will win. For Christ's sake no one likes war and I surely don't, but sometimes you simply have to take a stand. I for one applaud and salute our fine young men and women that are even now fighting and dying in Iraq for a cause that they believe in. In my opinion, anyone who does not defend our armed forces, who choose instead to badmouth them, is nothing short of a traitor and should be treated as such. There is only one thing left to say. If you don't like this country then get the hell out!!! We don't need your kind here anyway.

To the first poster. I cannot believe the way you can stand up for Sadaam Hussien. "Maybe he is not such a good guy"???? Incredible!!! Obviously, you have not done your research on life in Iraq prior to Sadaam being deposed! Thousands of innocents were massacred by this evil dictator. His sons were no better. They would steal brides from their wedding night, use them, then kill them! If you like Sadaam so much, you might as well go join him! I am not happy with the way George W. presented our reasons for going to war. But, it was necessary! That man was evil. And you are obviously evil as well. Do some reading on life in Iraq under Hussein, and get the facts!

Each time I look at this thread I'm more and more amazed. Did someone just ask "How were we wrong?" All of those nuclear weapons buried in Kansas must be clouding your ability to think straight. Is that some kind of joke? Just like the current mob running the show, you like many others refuse to admit for one second that the premise for this war was a con job. The bottom line is that George Bush went to war based on the FACT that Iraq posed an "Iminent Threat" to our national security because they were in possesion of WMDs up to and including Nuclear Weapons and Long Range Missles. So far, every weapons inspector W. has hired since he formulated this plot has quit the job because they haven't found so much as a single spec of anthrax let alone long range missles or nuclear matter and the were too embarassed to hold their positions any more. Check out another former weapons inspector from W's daddy's administration, Ramsey Clarke, who wrote a book detailing our intentions to thwart Iraq of its oil resources by provoking a war in the future. And why is it that George W. gets to hand pick those who are going to investigate this so called lapse in the intelligence gathering process? I've never once said Sadam was a good guy, I simply said that our administration was provoking this war based on intentions other than freeing the people of Iraq or for our national security. I, just like most Americans, believe that these fundamentalist Islamic nations pose very serious threats to the world. But waging war upon every suspected terrorist nation is not going to make the world a better or safer place. And day after day after day I'm being proven right. The world is no better off without Sadam, in fact its become more violent. Attacks in Bali, Afghanistan, Israel, India, Pakistan have all increased since the war started. Have you noticed that before the war Iraq averaged about 0 car bombs and terrorist attacks per day and since the war there are somewhere around 9 per day now. Is it still not a fact that Syria is the single largest support Nation for terrorists yet we have accused them of virtually nothing? Why? Hmmmmmmm. Do you know there is serious consideration being given to the U.S. not going to the Athens Olympics because of a new wave of distaste for this country around the globe. How about last week when our World Cup soccer team was nearly booed out of Mexico by people screaming Osama, Osama, Osama? That doesn't go to say that the people of Mexico make a good point it simply shows that the perception created by Bush and his cronies of this country is one of War Machine Resource Grabber not sovereign nation builder. Our president lied to our people about his reasoning for sending our brothers and sisters to war. He lied about his military service, he lied about Texas being a state focused on education. His administration has built a RECORD deficit, they spend way more money on military contracts for war equipment than they do on education and public services. They are offering a kick a*s tax break to those making $200,000 a year or more while sending me a check 3 years ago for $75. And thank god they are finally revealing this guys absentia military service. What a joke. Getting into the National Guard to avoid the war in Vietnam only to go AWOL to serve his daddy's boy running for congress. He even pretended to be reading a book to kids at an elementary school for a photo op not realizing that the whole time he was holding the book upside down. LOLOLOLOL. How many more signs do you people need? Is it going to take another rigged election with his brother being sure ballots are not counted properly in his state or will it take him signing a bill forbidding all presidential candidates who run agaist him to be no older than 14 for you to see. Either way, I feel good about John Kerry and his chances to unseat our dictator thus far. I thank god we have a compitentl American ready to face this joke of a president we have ruinning our country and what little bit of a good reputation it has left. Jim, I'll take your friendly wager. How about a written apology and congratulatory write up on this very thread to the winner of the fall election? I'm guessing Bush's days in office are thankfully coming to an end so I'm game.

Sorry to interrupt your early celebration of President Bush's political demise, but your premature election prediction is similar to many of your previous messages...the verdict hasn't been delivered, but you're claiming victory. Upon the first anniversary of you starting this message thread, I did a quick inventory of the messages posted. Eight (8) people posted 31 messages in support of your position (I counted "Parker" and "Christopher" as one person, since both are from Akron, Ohio and seem to be one and the same). Messages opposed to your position totalled 47, posted by 17 different people. That's about 40% for, and 60% against, and that is about what the presidential election will be, with about 60% of the electoral votes going to the incumbent. Care to make a friendly wager? The war in Iraq has gone gone about as expected, with the exception of a failure to uncover any WMD's so far. That is a political liability for Bush in the upcoming campaign, but in the long run the net effect will most likely be that it will be used as justification for increasing the funding for our various intelligence agencies. By the way, Christopher or Parker, who is your favorite candidate to oppose Bush in November. Are you still backing that nut-case Dr. Dean?

Wrong? How was everyone so wrong? We captured Sadaam. There may not have been any WMD, but the UN is getting Iraq back on its feet, I would say Bush has taken care of things quite well. I would also bet that days before the pres. election Bush will capture Osama. I still say that everything the US has done is justified. Lets just hope someone like you doesnt end up running this country.

Well, it's been nearly 1 year since I submitted this complaint. I must say, that having reread the complaint and the many responses I am quite happy to see that one, the many war-hungry non-combatants were all so very wrong and two, there are some minds of reason left among us. But this isn't a response to tell that joke David that "I told you so" or to say to the others who thought this generic revenue boosting assault was justified, it's merely to say thanks to those who have made legitimate arguments or rebuttals. I watched the evening news tonight, the evening before the Wisconsin primaries, and what a relief it is to know that George W. Bush's days in our White House are numbered. After 4 stressful years of having that monkey look after our national affairs we will finally be sending him back where he belongs (in the annuls of American history as the single worst U.S. President to have ever served the office). Good bye George W......

Once again, Iraq was not led by a fundamentalist. Quite the opposite - it was led by a power-hungry dictator. Saddam may have compensated the families of suicide bombers in Isreal, but that is a battle of occupation, not religious zeal. Plus, its Isreal's problem. They have the second largest air force in the world. Let them handle it. Iraq didn't have the capability to develop nuclear weapons. Nor did they have the delivery systems. While the inspectors were there, the longest range missle they found was only capable of reaching Isreal. And the whole idea that Saddam would develop a nuclear weapon to sell to a terrorist group is slightly absurd. Seriously, there are plenty of unsecured nuclear weapons that are available for immediate delivery in whats left of the Soviet Union. If our President truly cared about our security, he'd have spent the $87 billion to buy up all the left over Soviet nukes. As for other WMD's - biological and chemical weapons, I think its pretty curious that they were never used when Saddam invaded Kuwait, or when we stepped in. The other aspect that seems to evade the American public was that the 3,000 American deaths that people love to evoke in justifying the Iraq war came not from any WMD, but from our own oversights in intelligence. The sad truth is that terrorism can happen anywhere at any time. Anyone remember Timothy McVeigh? His WMD was fertilizer, a van, and a deep-rooted desire to make a violent statement. The US views terrorism as a major threat. The rest of the world views it as a nuissance. Invading Iraq to stop terrorism is similar to using a shot-gun to kill a fly. I'll go down the slippery slope and ask, where do we stop? What country is next? Every country harbors some kind of terrorist, even our own.

YOU STILL DON't GET IT Most Democrats like you are playing dangerous politics with the security of the U.S. In your zeal to discredit President Bush, you are covering over the fact that we are at war with a determined enemy who is motivated by religious passion to destroy us. The Muslim fundamentalists do not hate us because of something we did or will do to them. They hate us because of who we are. They believe we are the world bastion of Judeo-Christian civilization, whether the liberals in this country think so or not. In their view, this places us as the number one threat to their Islamic culture. The Koran and the Hadith, the two foundational holy books of Islam, teach that there is a fight to the finish between their civilization and ours. Muhammad taught that the world is divided into two spheres: Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb "the house of peace and the house of war." Mohammad believed everything outside of Islamic control is Dar al harb or "the house of war." The so-called "moderate Muslims" can only be moderate as long as they do not take literally what Muhammad, the Koran and the Hadith teach. The fundamentalists do take them literally and therefore have a much stronger basis of their faith that endures the challenges of other cultures. For the liberals to be arguing over the $87 billion to secure Iraq is like two people arguing over how much to tip the waiters on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. For Sen. Hillary Clinton to allege that we have created more enemies by invading Iraq is not only irresponsible, but reflects a total ignorance of the enemy that threatens us. We did nothing to provoke the wanton attacks of the Muslim terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. The only reason they didn't destroy it then was because of a technical miscalculation, not lack of desire. But the same group did succeed Sept. 11, 2001, when they also hit the Pentagon. The only reason they didn't hit the White House is because of some courageous passengers on another hijacked airliner that was caused to crash short of its target in Pennsylvania. The liberals are so intent upon destroying President Bush, that they have completely dismissed the danger that Iraq posed to the U.S. Iraq was a supporter of Islamic terrorism and developed weapons that would have been used by terrorists against the free world. The successful war on Iraq has also served as a clear warning to other Islamic nations who continuously support and supply Islamic terrorists including al-Qaida such as Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Libya. The war on Iraq is just one battle in a long war that we must fight against Islamic terrorism. We did not choose this war. But we have no alternative but to fight it. So $87 billion in light of the danger we face is not a great sum of money. After all, isn't it far better to fight the terrorists there and rebuild Iraqi cities than to fight them here and rebuild American cities? How can one hate President Bush, just because he is a Republican, more than one loves the peace and security of one's family? Start looking at the big picture and get out of the mind set of partisan politics. We are all in this together and we are all Americans. If you only knew how lucky you are to be a citizen of this wonderful country. Some of the Democratic presidential hopefuls are crying that since al-Qaida is now in Iraq, we need to get our troops out as fast as possible. They say our troops are now "sitting ducks" to be picked off by al-Qaida. Their solution is to turn tail and run. How cowardly and irresponsible can they get? They are certainly not qualified to lead America and provide security in this perilous time. It's the terrorists and al-Qaida who are becoming sitting ducks. We now know where to find them. Our troops have either killed or captured many of them. The liberal media only report our casualties, not the tremendous damage our troops are inflicting on them. As a matter of fact, no more of our magnificent soldiers have been killed in the line of duty than have our policemen or firemen in the same amount of time. President Bush said from the very beginning that this would be a long and tough war against worldwide Islamic terrorist organizations. We have done well in this war in the two years since 9-11. We do not have the alternative to give up and run. Any sign of weakness any signs of lack of resolve in facing our determined enemy will be interpreted by them as weakness. The Muslim fundamentalists will see it as a sign to move in for the kill. Sen. Ted Kennedy keeps calling for an exit strategy. He needs to remember that our enemy is resourceful, numerous and relentless. We are not just fighting a couple of nations. We are fighting a religious movement that is multinational and numbers in the millions. There is no way to exit from the threat they pose. We need to remember that we still have troops in Japan and Germany who are there as a result of World War II. Where is the exit strategy there? And he conveniently ignores the fact that he cast his vote in favor of war as does every one of the democratic presidential hopefuls. So we must stay the course and fight with all our might and resources. The alternative is to be destroyed as a world power. And don't think they cannot do that if left unchallenged

What happened to you Christopher? I really miss seeing you puff up like a bullfrog when someone disagrees with you. Did you get yourself killed when you went home to Bagdad on your visit? We can only hope LMAO

OUR NATION IS INDEED THE STRONGEST IN THE WORLD IN MANY FACETS INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO: ECONOMY, DIVERSITY, TECHNOLOGY, ARMORY, ETC... BUT IT WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF WE COULD USE ALL OF THESE GOOD ACHIEVEMENTS TO BETTER LIFE ON EARTH AND NOT JUST OUR CONTINENT? WELL I AM A HUMAN BEFORE I AM AN AMERICAN. I DONT THINK AMERICA I THINK WORLD! BEING PATRIOTIC WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE CRIES OF THE WEAKER AND MOLESTED (BY US) NATIONS IS NAZISM. THOSE (USELESS TO SAY EVERYONE) OF US THAT KNOW AND HAVE FOREVER KNOWN THAT THE PRIME INTERST WE HAVE IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS FOR OIL. SIMILARLY, EVERY OTHER NATION THAT IS MOLESTED BY US, WE HAVE SOME KIND OF LUCRATIVE MOTIF BEHIND THAT. AS PER 9/11, IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN THAT AL-QUAEEDA WAS BEHIND IT. <= I HOPE I DONT ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME A BAD GUY FOR SAYING THAT. BUT DOES ANY IDIOT ACTUALLY BELEIVE THAT THE PEOPLE OF THAT NATION WHO CAN BARELY CONTROL THE FLIGHT OF THEIR DONKEYS, WHO ARE SO POOR AND DESTITUE THAT THEY ARE EVEN OUT OF WATER TO DRINK, CAN MANIFEST AND IMPROVISE SUCH A PLOT? AND PLUS ALL THE 4000 JEWISH PEOPLE THAT WERE SOMEHOW ALREADY WARNED TO NOT BE PRESENT THERE BEFORE THE INCIDENT? A LOGICAL UNDERSTANDING OF THAT AND THE FOLLOWING EVENTS IS THE URGE FOR OUR CABINET TO BE PRESENT IN THAT REGION AND TO CONTROL OUR POTENTIAL ENEMIES: RUSSIA, INDIA, PAKISTAN, CHINA. REMEMBER THEY ARE NUCLEAR POWERS. BUT WILL THEY REALLY HARM US? THEY ARE POOR AND ARE BARELY MAKING IT THROUGH LIFE. HOW MANY PORSCHES, BMWs, CORVETTEs ARE THERE IN THOSE COUNTRIES? MAYBE A HANDFULL! BUT WE STILL THINK , OR ARE COERCED TO THINK THAT THOSE ARE BAD NATIONS. WELL, NOW THAT USA HAS CONQUERED IRAQ AND ALL THE OIL IS OURS, ALL OF A SUDDEN IRAQI OIL WHICH WHILE SADDAM WAS THERE COULD BE TRADED FOR FOOD ONLY, HAS NO MORE SANCTIONS AND IS GOING TO BE TRADED FOR DOLLARS, EUROS, GOLD, ETC... BENEFITING US! ALTHOUGH IT FEELS GOOD TO BE RICH BUT WHEN EACH LEVEL OF OUR RICHNESS IS THE PRODUCT OF A LIFE TAKEN FROM AN DESTITUTE AND POOR FOLK, IT HURTS! I OPT FOR WORLD PEACE. TO THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND, CHEERS!

Beloe is a rebuttal taken from another report. Since it has a lot to do with President Bush, as well as liberal hypocrisy, I figured I would copy and paste it to this report ........ George W. Bush is one of the best presidents to ever bless this nation. He annihilated one of the worst dictators in history, and he did so in a matter of weeks. Weapons of mass destruction or not, the world is a safer place without Saddam in it. Until the elitist liberals put an end to their blatant hypocrisy, the United States government will remain in full Republican control. How are liberals hypocrites you ask? Hmmmm? Well, here are just a few of many examples.... Most liberals say that it is okay for mothers to get drunk, have immoral sinner sex with strange men, and then end any resulting pregnancies. According to these liberals, mothers have the right to insert skirt devil vacuum cleaners up their dresses and violently withdraw, from their wombs, living breathing babies. On the other hand, liberals also say that putting violent murders and rapists to death is wrong, and violates civil and human rights? . Wait? What? Okay, let me get this straight; it's okay to violently murder innocent babies with chop and mince vacuum cleaners, but it is not okay to execute violent murders via the ever so peaceful lethal injection?? If that is not hypocrisy, I don't know what is. If mothers can choose to murder their babies, we can certainly choose to execute convicted killers. In fact, we should execute mothers who think it is okay to murder their unborn children via abortion! Mothers have no right to choose! They waive that right the very second they get into their special stance, spread their thighs, and voluntarily engage in an act that can potentially lead to pregnancy. Higher education is another area where liberals regularly demonstrate their hypocrisy. For instance, liberal academic elites preach tolerance, diversity, acceptance, etc. etc. However, many liberal academic administrators at regionally accredited universities deny admissions and transfer credit to students with credentials earned at nationally accredited schools; even when the curriculum and credits perfectly match. In spite of the fact that both types of accreditation (regional and national) meet the same federal standards, and are equal in the eyes of our government, the liberal academics look down upon students and graduates of nationally accredited schools. Democratics in Congress actually shot down certain bills that would prevent such discrimination. The liberal academic establishment is a joke. Many within it engage in horrible discriminatory practices, but still attempt to lecture people on the value of diversity. Hypocrisy? Absolutely! Additionally, liberals continue to preach about constitutional rights and civil liberties. However, they want to take away my guns, and the guns of many other law abiding citizens. Isn't it my right under the constitution to bear arms? YES! Again, liberal hypocrisy! Outlawing and banning guns, and taking away the right to legally purchase guns, would only give criminals more power. This is because criminals would be the only ones left with guns. Are liberals stupid enough to think that criminals would actually abide by such a ban? Of course they wouldnt! In fact, if guns were outlawed and completely wiped of the planet, criminals would probably begin manufacturing their own firearms in an attempt to gain more power over innocent citizens. The list goes on and on, so I'll end it here... Liberals do nothing for this nation but promote immorality. If such pushovers were in charge now, we would likely be undergoing constant terror attacks. Liberals can not be trusted, and should never be elected into power. People who vote for liberals/Democrats should be ashamed and embarrassed for openly demonstrating their ignorance. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to our country so far. Because he has the balls to take aggressive action against international criminals, terrorist dictators will now think twice before attempting to fly aircraft into U.S. buildings. George W. Bush has made our nation a much safer place. When he is combined with a totally Republican controlled Congress, as well as with a mostly conservative Supreme Court, we will begin to experience even more great changes. Abortion will be outlawed, illegal immigration will be halted, and when higher education is reauthorized, there will be equity and equality in the collegiate admissions and transfer process. M. Steven Perone - Media, Pennsylvania U.S.A.

I just discovered this in another report I see Christopher posted in. Go to Rip Off Report #33305. He dosent want us to bomb Iraq but in this report he says we should we should napalm this small American town. I take back what I said about you being a terrorist supporter Christopher. You are a terrorist and if any charges should be brought up it will be on you. What a piece of trash.

To Parker & Christopher, if you really believe what you say, you are in the minority of Americans. That is a proven fact on all census poles in the media. I don't need to look it up for you do I? You are a part of the same pasifists movenent that kept the US out of WWII until we lost so many at Pearl. I believe you two will be among the ones to run or hide if heaved forbid, there is ever another war on US soil. Please do not say something stupid like there has never been a war on US soil, that will only probe your ignorance. To Janet, I lost a half brother in Vietnam in 1969, an uncle before I was ever born in Korea, and worse of all, I lost my father to alchoholism because he lived for 72 years trying to bury the horror he experenced in WWII. I feel for you, your husband and your family, my prayers are with you. For April, Unfortunately it is human nature to fight. The human race has done this throughout history. It is the instinct of man to dominate man. Until the human race can overcome that instinct, there will always be war of some kind somewhere on this planet. To David and Jim, I served in country at the end and evacuated Saigon as a proud US Marine. My second oldest son got out of the Corps two years ago and works in the "War Room" in Huntsville, AL. My family has had at least one member of every generation in the Corps since it was founded in 1775. I do not want anyone to experence what we (meaning you and I)have experenced, but it sometimes is the cost of freedom. A freedom we have defended, a freedom Janet is forced to continually pay for and a freedom individuals like Christopher and Parker don't understand.

Well I see your still at it Christopher. So what if my country serves its best interest. Is there no end to your pissing and moaning. You have to be the most unpatriotic weasle I have ever heard and a lot of your bullshit like "LETS IMPEACH BUSH (IF NOTHING ELSE, BECAUSE HE LEANS ON HIS PODIUM DURING SPEACHES" just shows what a fool you really are. If you hate our counntry so much why dont you leave. Also I am waiting patiently for you to carry out your childish threats and for the big report on me you said would be posted in a week. The rantings of a ill mannered child. Get it thru that thick head of yours that America is the big boy on the block. We will do as we please to better our interests world wide. I also for a brief period wondered where all these WMD were but then it occured to me we have to tell the crybabies like you something so you'll keep your anti American comments at bay.

Thanks for the info. I will surely look at each article in detail and make my own judgement. I appreciate your willingness to provide this information as it most certainly proves you do your research making it much easier for one to be opened minded about your position. One comment I have though is that I believe whole heartedly that the U.S. political machine (the current administration) has some other motives besides just removing Saddam. The fact that not one WMD has been found as of yet, is proof to me that the WMD theory was an excuse to execute military operations. This is not to say that WMD will not be found (you make a good point Jim, we SHOULD give it more time) but we can all testify that Bush made it perfectly clear these WMDs were everywhere and U.S. sources had intelligence as to their whereabouts. So maybe Saddam had plenty of time to move or relocate them but if they were ALL over the place then I'd have expected them to have found, at the very least, something by now. Which we have not. In regards to Germany, Russia and France I will pose this question to you. Do you think if France, Germany and Russia would have initially supported the military action agains Iraq, that all of this so-called dirty laundry would be being aired today by our political body? I personally don't think it would be. So why now? Why is it that we, just two years ago, were hailing Putin as a hero to Russian Political reform and trying to form bonds with him and now we shun him because he didn't back us. And who are we to blame France, Russia, and Germany for forming economic bonds with Iraq? Did we not do the same with Iraq 20 years ago during the Iran/Iraq conflift. Did we have NOTHING to do with creating Saddam in the first place. It was Ok for us to supply saddam with weapons to fight the Iranians because it was in OUR best interests but now because France, Germany and Russia had commitments with Iraq they are considered no better or worse than the terrorists themselves. And hasn't the U.S. government planted its own seeds of economic stability EVERYWHERE it has wanted to. Like Germany, France, the Carribean, Phillipenes, Guam, Cuba, Mexico, Indonesia, S. Korea, Japan and a plethra of other countries? We have economic ties to nearly every single country on the planet. Yet we're pissed because France, Germany and Russia did the same with Iraq. Its just plain hypocritical. That's my gripe with the whole thing. Anyway, thanks again Jim. I'll read over the articles this weekend and will post what I think shorty thereafter. Take care.

LMAO again at you christopher. Any posts I have made in the Rip Off reports should have no bearing in your position in this topic. I am flattered I pissed you off so much. That was my goal and obviously I succeded. I especially love the part where you are getting a lawyer to press charges against me. Oh please please do. The editor has all of my personal info so all you have to do is get a court order for it. Let me reassert that if you ever show up on my doorstep I will definetly sock you up. While I admit my method of arguing is extreme I dont find it anymore enflaming than your anti american bashing. You deserve to die and I for one will shout for glee if you ever do. I hate your guts and as far as your theats go I'll end with saying BRING IT!!!! HAVE A NICE DAY!!!.................not

First of all, I should have identified the source of the info I posted earlier and I applaud your effort to verify the data... I copied the message almost verbatim from the CompuServe news bulletin board on 4/26/03. I have not read the Newsweek editorial on the subject but now that I am aware of it I plan to do so. Thanks for the info. Parker, go to the YAHOO search engine and enter the following: > bin laden baghdad march 1998<. You'll get over 12,000 hits so take your pick, but right on the first page you'll see CNN.com, and I suggest you check that one out, because it is exactly the same info I posted. (if you're prompted to select an edition, choose international). The CNN page always takes a long time to load, so be patient. In fairness, I should also report that after the info was made public, a U.S. gov't spokes- person (either Defense or State Dept.) issued a statement to the effect that until the U.S. verified the documents found in Iraq, they remained merely news reports. For a different slant on the subject of the duplicity of France, Germany and Russia in attempting to thwart coalition efforts in Iraq, I refer you to the Dallas Morning News edition of March 11, 2003, reported by Richard Bradley. The article states that France, Germany and Russia have placed economics before human life. France gets 80% of her oil from Iraq, and has been Iraq's number one trading partner in the world. Germany provided Iraq with the majority of its advanced technology and industrial support, and also gets a disproportionate segment of her oil from Iraq at less than market rates. Both France and Germany have "Day After" contracts that would have gone into effect if the U.N. lifted the sanctions in Iraq. Of course, now that we've had a regime change, those contracts are useless. The contracts were written to favor Germany and France above other countries. Do you now understand why France and Germany are lobbying for an expanded role in the reconstruction of the Iraqi government? Do you think they deserve any consideration for such a role? Parker, I suggest you read the entire Dallas Morning News article for additional info on China and Russia. It's at DallasNews.com. I printed the article and if you can't locate it I'll be glad to fax it to you; it's too lengthy to reproduce here. Contrary to your belief, I don't think it is at all odd that we are finding evidence linking Saddam with Al Queda now that we've taken over Iraq. When did you expect we'd find the evidence? In previous postings on this subject I have described in painstaking detail the link between all terrorist groups, including the late and lamented Saddam regime, so I for one am not surprised that my previous stated theories appear to be in the process of being proven. Did you see 60 Minutes on Sunday 5/4/03? There was a report of how one very remarkable lady whose father was hung by Saddam in 1995 has established the links between the Islamic terrorist groups worldwide, including those in the USA doing business as charities. I hope that this report receives wide dissemination in the print media. Finally, I agree with you on your observation of our failure to find any significant WMD's so far in Iraq. I'm inclined to allow more time to locate these weapons, however. Iraq is a large country the size of California, and we telegraphed the fact that we were coming for over a year, so they've had time to dismantle and bury the WMD's in the desert or smuggle them into Syria. I could try to sugar-coat the issue of WMD's by stating my belief that the coalition was justified in replacing the Saddam regime because of the links to terrorism; after all, President Bush declared war on all countries who harbor and/or support international terrorism. But, I agree with you, that unless WMD's are found within a reasonable time period, then the USA and especially Bush and the U.S. intelligence agencies have a serious credibility problem. Take care Parker.

Long time no read Jim. Well, you sure do have some dirt on those Frenchies huh? Doesn't it seem just a "little" odd that we suddenly start finding evidence that Saddam was involved with Al Queda now that we've taken over Iraq. And isn't it even more odd that suddenly there is evidence popping up that implicates those who chose not to support the war as "terrorists"? And where are those Weapons of Mass Destruction that were said to have been littering the Iraqi countryside? If they were there, as we have said all along, SOMETHING would have been found by now. I'll bet you in six months the U.S. starts finding (er, I mean planting) these weapons all over in order to prove (er, I mean show) to the world that the war was justified. I mean, Jim, I'm not saying these "secret" documnets are fact or fiction but come on, isn't it a little weird that the French are suddenly mortal enemies because they chose to follow public opinion in their country and not support the war? Just listen to the news as they consistently point the finger at Russia, saying Saddam is hiding in Vadimir Putin's house. What's next, Germany is mounting a secret military front to liberate Iraq from the U.S.? Well that seems to be the pattern the officials from the U.S. want to create in forming and molding public opinion in this country. So if these "Secret" documents exist, where did you find them, I'd like to take a look at the originals and judge for myself. So would you kindly report back and let me in on your sources. I think you read the Newsweek editorial if I'm not mistaken but if you read it somewhere else, let me know where. I'd be interested in checking it out. Thanks, take care Jim.

Is it OK for Iraq to invade Kuwait for oil and its not OK for the US to invade Iraq for the same reason? The peace movement is not really a peace movement at all. It supports Palestinian terrorists even though the current Intifada is an unprovoked breech of the Oslo Peace Accords. The peace movement exaggerates to the point of blatant lying. Its not a peace movement but an anti American propaganda campaign, waging outdated cold war politics. I hate patriotism of any kind. I refuse to recite the pledge of allegiance. My eyes are wide open. While I despise the Republican party and believe that the Iraqi invasion was not about Weapons of Mass Destruction. I do believe that there is actually more sincerity in the Bush administration's actions than that of the protest movement. They really do want to free Iraq from Hussein's rule and eliminate the threat he makes to peace in the Persian Gulf. I'm tired of the left's whining. The people of the US are behind the Iraq war. Any claims that the media is completely controlled by the government is silly. The left's hateful stance reminds me of the days of Newt Gingrich and Kenneth Starr. They all are completely out of touch with whats really going on and all have radically stupid ideology. Sure war is a terrible thing, but the peace movement has alienated the average American and will be marginalized for years to come.

Quoth the Raven: Nevermore! :-) Documents discovered in the bombed out headquarters of Iraq's intelligence service provide evidence of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist network. The papers were found by journalists working for the Sunday Telegraph and reveal that an envoy from bin Laden met with officials in Baghdad in March 1998 for the purpose of establishing a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qaida based upon their mutual hatred of the USA and Saudi Arabia. In a separate story, the Sunday Times reports that its own journalists had found documents in the Iraqi foreign ministry that indicate that France gave Saddam's regime regular reports on its dealings with American officials. The documents reveal that Paris shared with Baghdad the contents of private transatlantic meetings and diplomatic traffic from Washington. One document, dated 9/25/01 covered talks between presidents Jacques Chirac and George Bush. Please note, two weeks after 9/11/01 the French were stabbing us in the back while publicly announcing they supported us. Disgraceful! I will resist the temptation to editorialize further about these sensational news reports, except to say they certainly seem to support the positions of those of us who believe it was in our national interest to dispose of Saddam. It appears we got a bonus by exposing the French government (especially Chirac and his puppets at the UN) for the back-stabbing cowards that they are!

Quoth the Raven: Nevermore! :-) Documents discovered in the bombed out headquarters of Iraq's intelligence service provide evidence of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist network. The papers were found by journalists working for the Sunday Telegraph and reveal that an envoy from bin Laden met with officials in Baghdad in March 1998 for the purpose of establishing a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qaida based upon their mutual hatred of the USA and Saudi Arabia. In a separate story, the Sunday Times reports that its own journalists had found documents in the Iraqi foreign ministry that indicate that France gave Saddam's regime regular reports on its dealings with American officials. The documents reveal that Paris shared with Baghdad the contents of private transatlantic meetings and diplomatic traffic from Washington. One document, dated 9/25/01 covered talks between presidents Jacques Chirac and George Bush. Please note, two weeks after 9/11/01 the French were stabbing us in the back while publicly announcing they supported us. Disgraceful! I will resist the temptation to editorialize further about these sensational news reports, except to say they certainly seem to support the positions of those of us who believe it was in our national interest to dispose of Saddam. It appears we got a bonus by exposing the French government (especially Chirac and his puppets at the UN) for the back-stabbing cowards that they are!

Quoth the Raven: Nevermore! :-) Documents discovered in the bombed out headquarters of Iraq's intelligence service provide evidence of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist network. The papers were found by journalists working for the Sunday Telegraph and reveal that an envoy from bin Laden met with officials in Baghdad in March 1998 for the purpose of establishing a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qaida based upon their mutual hatred of the USA and Saudi Arabia. In a separate story, the Sunday Times reports that its own journalists had found documents in the Iraqi foreign ministry that indicate that France gave Saddam's regime regular reports on its dealings with American officials. The documents reveal that Paris shared with Baghdad the contents of private transatlantic meetings and diplomatic traffic from Washington. One document, dated 9/25/01 covered talks between presidents Jacques Chirac and George Bush. Please note, two weeks after 9/11/01 the French were stabbing us in the back while publicly announcing they supported us. Disgraceful! I will resist the temptation to editorialize further about these sensational news reports, except to say they certainly seem to support the positions of those of us who believe it was in our national interest to dispose of Saddam. It appears we got a bonus by exposing the French government (especially Chirac and his puppets at the UN) for the back-stabbing cowards that they are!

Not bad Jim. Your a true poet in every sense of the word. However, Edgar Allen Poe you are not. Good work.

Not bad Jim. Your a true poet in every sense of the word. However, Edgar Allen Poe you are not. Good work.

I screwed up the last line of my limerick. It's supposed to go like this: There once was a guy named Hussein, Who died in a war in great pain! His body, I'm told Is starting to mold. But he won't mess with us again! USA RULES!!!!

OK I will admitt I have not read all of the responses and rebuttals but here is my take on things. I will not say you do not have the right to express your feelings but this has gotten down right stupid. I have been and still am in the service since 1988 I have had enough of being the worlds peace keepers I am the first to say if I don't agree with an operation that said I will now say I am glad we have hopefully finshed this. President Bush bowed down to public opion in 1991 and stopped the advance into Iraq. So for the past 12 years the military has had to put up with last mintue deployments usually over holiday's or the summer because things have gotten "tense". The Military has had to endure 90 and 180 day tours in the desert for the last 12 years. It is about time this is ended. Think of all the money that has been spent in the past 12 years to prevent and a*****e from invading Kawait or gassing his own people or what ever he was trying to do. It all could have been avoided. The way the people live in Iraq and the way the goverment spends it money who is greedy? the US who is giving not asking them to pay for humanitarian aid or the Iraqi goverment? Does anyone know how many people we have lost in the last 12 years just protecting the no fly zone and watching the boders of Iraq? I am talking about any death not just the pilots. I am not sure either why because no on seems to give a s**t anymore. How many people have died in the war on terrior? again I am not sure because no one gives a s**t anymore. Or How about Bosina how much longer are we going to play peace keeper over there? How many have lost their lives there?:( It seems to me as long as the U.N. askes use to do it or supports an action completly it is OK with the American public. So why don't we all just put away the political agenda and support the troops and the free people of Iraq!!!! By taking down the goverment of Iraq and changing it maybe the Military can now stop and enjoy there families and not live on edge for once.

There once was a guy named Hussein Who died in a war in great pain! His body, I'm told Is starting to mold. But he won't mess us again!

Dear David (if that's your REAL name), You know I just happened upon a few other Rip Off reports in which I noticed you had submitted rebuttals to complaints from others on a variaty of subjects. Actually it was more like 5 (who knows how many others you've had responses to but I'll be figuring that out in the coming days). I told myself I wasn't coming back again because of the ignorant and defamatory comments being made, however, after reading your other rebuttals I just could not help but to address you personally one LAST time. How terribly sad and pathetic that you spend your days and nights reviewing this website looking for unsuspecting people, who cannot see you face to face, to insult and belittle with no substance to your argument. You even claim to have held jobs in the related topics as if to make yourself seem credible on the subject, much like you telling me you were a redneck on an oil rig. LIAR!! Also, in your other rebuttals you do exactly as you've done here. You throw insult after insult at people for no other reason than to make yourself feel like a tough guy. And you include in every rebuttal "go back to Baghdad where you belong" when most of them have nothing to do with Iraq. Gee WHY IS THAT? I suspect it's because you have nothing intelligent to say. Do you script these rebutalls or just think them up as you go? Even the Editor of this site states that you are an idiot in many of the other rebuttals. David you are a JOKE! And this is me laughing at how sorry you are! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! You would benefit from a formal education, some exercise and a relationship with a girl (a real one). However, I don't see her benefiting much. As far as I'm concerned, after having read your many other sensless and incoherant rebutalls to others, your just a lonely guy with too much time on his (or her) hands. Good luck with the rest of your life. Your gonna need it. Wait you need to get a life first geek! Still laughing HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! See David, I was a criminal investigator for the Department of Defense for 5 years. I, unlike you, served my country and benefitted from the education it gave me. And I've used that education and experience to figure you out. Guess what clown, you picked the wrong guy to confront and insult this time. A message to those reading this BEWARE: DAVID OF BULLHEAD CITY, ARIZONA IS A CON ARTIST LIAR. By weeks end I will return, after more research, with a list of complaints in which David has responded to on this in order to prove my case against him and protect others from him. Then I will be posting a new complaint in regards to David himself. It will read: DAVID OF BULLHEAD CITY, ARIZONA THE CON ARTIST AND LIAR which will also include the aforementioned evidence of his deceit. And finally I will contact the Editor to inform him of what I've discovered and request to have David prohibited from making any more insulting and threatening rebutalls to other honest consumers with complaints on Rip Off.com. I have also been speaking to an attorney friend who tells me that the verbal communication of a threat is against the law wether it be spoken or written. He's reviewed David's responses and concurs that these are in fact verbal threats to my safety. And because of the nature of David's threats I will be considering much more than just a Rip Off report to expose him. Sincerely yours, CHRISTOPHER PARKER.......P.S. What's wrong David, cat got your tongue?

I respect the right of people to express thier opinions but will you Hanoi Jane's Please Shut Up! You "Peace Activists" cause more harm than any good. Unfortunately you have the media backing you which gives the appearance that you have some substance. The truth is you have no substance and act as fuel for the terrorists. If you feel so strong please take a trip to Baghdad and join your colleagues there.

Very well said Janice. The one thing I have seen good come out of this idiotic topic our lil Iraqi freind Christopher has started is the overwelming percentage of good patriotic Americans versus the terrorist supporters, or "war protesters" as they like to call themselves. We let them get away with this in the Viet Nam war where when I returned I was called a baby killer and murderer. Now its nice to return the favor by telling them what I think they are and to see America finally joining together. Christopher as you can see the time for talking is over. We talked till we were blue in the face to your buddie Saddam trying to get him to accept our principles and ideas. He would not as you wont listen. Now we are still presenting our ideas but instead of talking were presenting them on the end of a bullit. A lot of new anti terrorisim laws were just passed because of 9/11. Yes you have the right to protest Christopher about some things. Better check out these new laws before you run your mouth supporting Saddam anymore or maybe just maybe when we take care of your buddie Saddam one of those bullits might stray your way, or if your lucky 20 years in a Federal facility with "Leroy Long Dong" as your cellmate. Your kind is not going to be allowed to spread like the virus you are in America anymore. Big Brother watching you and WE are watching you Chrisopher. Your best shot at this point is to take that towel of your head, unfold it, get on it and fly it back to Bagdad. Have a nice day!

And your the first person from California that makes sense. You must of moved there from another state. I think you addressed all that was needed to be said.

I clicked on this, hoping to learn something new, but instead, I fell asleep reading halfway through these comments. People who hate President Bush, will continue to hate Bush, even if it means getting hysterical and making things up to cause LEVEL-HEADED thinkers to veer off into other arguments that are COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED! People who agree with President Bush and this war, well, appear to be winning, as we are in day 8 of it despite the opposition in the entire world. Our country is COMPLETELY untouched by what happens over there when it comes to OIL! So QUIT USING THAT AS YOUR EXCUSE. We get LESS than 20% of our national consumption of oil from the Middle East. Grow up, and pick a new point to argue. Oh wait, you CAN'T, can you. P.S.--To those of you who are just die-hard liberal democrats, are you forgetting that Bill Clinton came within minutes of declaring war with Saddam back in 1998...and he was going to do it WITHOUT asking the UN, AND he was going to do it with practically EVERY democratic senator and representative on his side?? I believe the argument at that time was that Clinton was trying to shake things up with Saddam and prepare a war he could win to take his name out of the papers over the whole Monica Lewinsky thing...and he soon realized the backlash he'd receive so he decided against it. I hated Clinton, and I would've questioned his motives on that very point as well. But d**n-it, if the end result would've been that the evil b*****d Saddam had been taken out, I would've been thrilled! So would've Iraq. I keep hearing people say Saddam is a "Bad man" and "shouldn't be in power", and there's a big fat BUT that follows. WHY?? END OF POINT! Saddam IS a bad man and shouldn't be in power. PERIOD! Here's some statistics you can go look up. For all the cries about innocent civilians possibly getting killed over there, and how our war is inhumane, let's check something real quick. How many civilians (including all men, women, and children of all ages) were killed during the Persian Gulf War? 3000. How many children under the age of five has Saddam slaughtered in these past 12 years of "diplomacy"? 60,000. And that's JUST children under the age of 5!!!!!!!! I'd like to point out that Hitler for a looooong time had the majority of the world feeling sorry for him, or just plain staying away from him. And I'm sure at some point during his stay in power the amount of Jews he had murdered hit the 60,000 mark as well. I guess it HAD to, if in the years the world stood by, the number managed to increase to 6 Million. I'm not a citizen who's willing to stay away this time. Neither is President Bush. I'm sorry so many of you are. EVIL is not fought with words or with UN resolutions. It's fought when someone puts a bullet through the middle of it. THAT'S REALITY! And I can't believe that some of you have so little character as to try to BLAME America for the possibility that Saddam may attack his own people with these weapons of mass destruction. Saddam has NO responsibility in doing this??? We're FORCING him to do it??? Are you all CRAZY??? The fact that he's a leader who's willing to do that is the REASON why Bush is going to take him out. Seriously, what's the matter with all of you? If it were 1938, you'd be arguing how going into Germany to stop Hitler might cause him to retaliate by putting people in gas ovens. What year did we finally go in there? 3 years too late in many Holocaust survivors opinions. Because guess what! People were dying ANYWAYS! I respect the right to protest. Praise God we live in a country where if you do, you won't get shot, or have to watch YOUR children have gasoline poured down their throats and then lit on fire because of something YOU said. The Iraqi people have not been so blessed in the past 24 years. But making your arguments personal and throwing up smoke screens to make someone NOT of your party affiliation look monstrous is wrong. The Monster is Saddam. And I'm PROUD to say I'm an American at this moment in time because America is going to bring the Monster DOWN! The only shameful thing about all of this is that it wasn't done in 1991. You may call me brainwashed. That's fine. But if you can't see all the pictures of the dead children, or hear all the reports of what Saddam and his BAATH Party have done for the last several years because you still want to argue some points, then YOU ARE BLIND AND HEARTLESS!!

I just coudnt stay away either Jim. I see our little Iraqi friend is still posting his anti-American BS. Figures as much. Oh the answer to what is the difference between Christoper and dog s**t..... Well the dog s**t when it gets old turns white and quits stinking. Go back to Iraq and die with the rest of your people Christopher. Sorry folks just saying how it is.

Wow, your just finding out that we've gone to war. Did you realy think we wouldn't? People are not dying at the "Hands of the US." The Iraqi's that are stupid enough to stay were they know the bombs are being dropped, don't deserve our pitty. Those men and women of the US Armed Forces are there by choice. Sorry you don't have the guts to stand up for your country and not against them!

The first person to put their "opinion" of our President on this site should go back to their "I love Bill Clinton" site and let us consumers "Shop" in peace. I'll bet your weren't on this site complaining when old Bill sent our troops into Bosnia.

A terrible tragedy took place this week in the Miidle East. U.S. military forces moved into Iraq and the devastion and demolition of the country is ongoing. May god bless those who shall perish both American and Iraqi. I can only pray the attack is quick and as little people as possible shall suffer. The War Machine is turning. God help us all. Peace.

A terrible tragedy took place this week in the Miidle East. U.S. military forces moved into Iraq and the devastion and demolition of the country is ongoing. May god bless those who shall perish both American and Iraqi. I can only pray the attack is quick and as little people as possible shall suffer. The War Machine is turning. God help us all. Peace.

A terrible tragedy took place this week in the Miidle East. U.S. military forces moved into Iraq and the devastion and demolition of the country is ongoing. May god bless those who shall perish both American and Iraqi. I can only pray the attack is quick and as little people as possible shall suffer. The War Machine is turning. God help us all. Peace.

Audrey, youve proven my point by your rebuttals. First, those serving now chose to serve our country. Why should I feel bad for them? That was THEIR choice, not yours, not mine, no one else. As soon as they sign, they are told that in the possibility of any war, they may go. You dont make much sense here. You make it sound as if we still live in a world were the only way to get someone to server our country is to draft them, this is the 21st century. My rebuttal back to you is because of your lack of understanding the ways others feel. The only thing you did get right, was the fact that we have the freedom of speech. But remember, not just those supporting peace, but everyone. I have nothing against those that want to support peace, if you read my rebuttals, youd know that. What I do have a problem with is those preaching about falsehoods. You also made the reference at the end of your rebuttal about believing in God, news flash, people dont always have the same belief as you or I. This isnt a holy war from the American people. Ive made it clear, my main reason for the support of this administration and this war, is to insure that my children have a future in this country. That means more to me than anything else. I have nothing against you or your beliefs, I just pointed out missed facts and misrepresentation of facts, nothing more nothing less. Rather they use these weapons in the mist of a war is on them. The problem is we wont to stop them before it comes to that. The American people will always differ on this. But this is our freedom and we want to protect that.

To April, I did not say that Bin Laden was even a man or for that matter, human. In fact I support Bush if he would finish what he started. I have previously stated if you read my comments "where is Bin Laden, where is Mullah Omar"? I have no love for Saddam Hussein but I do care about children from all walks of life. In fact I will not argue with you I think my responses speak for themselves. To all, I realize Bush and his cabinet are determined to go to war without truly the American people and the world his true reasons and also the U.N. I am opposed to going without the support of the U.N. and I remain opposed as long as we the American People are not given the true facts. If there is war there might not be a future to any one's children including my own. If you really think someone has all of these weapons of mass destruction just as we and other countries do, would'nt they use them against us in the event of war? Did'nt the U.S. provide these weapons of mass destruction to the madman to destroy those people (Kurds) that stood in the way of obtaining their oil? Former President Jimmy Carter took a stand against this so-called war. I have that right also as an American citizen; as our constitution gurantees us freedom of speech. For those of you that want war for the wrong reasons, I would ask you would yousay this if you had a child fresh out of high school and joined the national guards as a way of futhering their education to be told as soon as he finished boot camp he had to go to war for reasons not fully understood? This has happenend to many people that I know. Bush gave his speech and used 9-11 for symphathy to obtain the American people for the Iraqui situation. The two incidents are not the same even the media and many congressmen frowned upon this. He cannot give you his reasons because a lot of his reasons are personal. Again I say think before you come out against someone that is opposed to this "war" in Iraq; Will you go and serve on the front line? Will you write to your congressman and ask what about those people that came on American soil and destroyed our freedom, innocent victims, our buildings and our way of life? Why can't we finish Afghanistan? I said it once and I will say it again you don't change horses in mis stream. I won't be fooled because I can think for myself and I read and understand what I read. If one does not have faith in GOD one cannot survive. BELIEVE!!!

We Americans have the Constitutional Right to speak our minds on any subject, for example: pro or con to war. But there is great irony in that without the horror of past wars we would be seeing totally different American national and world pictures today. Without those wars would we have the rights that we enjoy? Would the world be more or less chaotic now? Fighting and winning the American Revolutionary War [4,435 deaths] secured all of our rights and the American Civil War [498,000 deaths] kept our nation as one. In addition, two World Wars [47 million and 55 million total world dead, respectively] were fought in order to maintain our rights and freedoms, and those of others. Questions: Given that there were ample voices with seemingly valid arguments against all of these wars, and given that any war, no matter the justification, causes terrible destruction and death, should any of the above wars have not been fought? Further, can there ever be moral justification for any war, regardless of the cause?

We Americans have the Constitutional Right to speak our minds on any subject, for example: pro or con to war. But there is great irony in that without the horror of past wars we would be seeing totally different American national and world pictures today. Without those wars would we have the rights that we enjoy? Would the world be more or less chaotic now? Fighting and winning the American Revolutionary War [4,435 deaths] secured all of our rights and the American Civil War [498,000 deaths] kept our nation as one. In addition, two World Wars [47 million and 55 million total world dead, respectively] were fought in order to maintain our rights and freedoms, and those of others. Questions: Given that there were ample voices with seemingly valid arguments against all of these wars, and given that any war, no matter the justification, causes terrible destruction and death, should any of the above wars have not been fought? Further, can there ever be moral justification for any war, regardless of the cause?

We Americans have the Constitutional Right to speak our minds on any subject, for example: pro or con to war. But there is great irony in that without the horror of past wars we would be seeing totally different American national and world pictures today. Without those wars would we have the rights that we enjoy? Would the world be more or less chaotic now? Fighting and winning the American Revolutionary War [4,435 deaths] secured all of our rights and the American Civil War [498,000 deaths] kept our nation as one. In addition, two World Wars [47 million and 55 million total world dead, respectively] were fought in order to maintain our rights and freedoms, and those of others. Questions: Given that there were ample voices with seemingly valid arguments against all of these wars, and given that any war, no matter the justification, causes terrible destruction and death, should any of the above wars have not been fought? Further, can there ever be moral justification for any war, regardless of the cause?

We Americans have the Constitutional Right to speak our minds on any subject, for example: pro or con to war. But there is great irony in that without the horror of past wars we would be seeing totally different American national and world pictures today. Without those wars would we have the rights that we enjoy? Would the world be more or less chaotic now? Fighting and winning the American Revolutionary War [4,435 deaths] secured all of our rights and the American Civil War [498,000 deaths] kept our nation as one. In addition, two World Wars [47 million and 55 million total world dead, respectively] were fought in order to maintain our rights and freedoms, and those of others. Questions: Given that there were ample voices with seemingly valid arguments against all of these wars, and given that any war, no matter the justification, causes terrible destruction and death, should any of the above wars have not been fought? Further, can there ever be moral justification for any war, regardless of the cause?

Christopher, I could not stay away either. But, since my blood pressure was rising to dangerous levels, I decided to take a break for awhile. I am posting again because I noticed you mentioned my name in several of your recent messages. Remember, no good deed shall go unpunished! Let me say that I didn't come here expecting to win an argument. I saw your original message and thought that your opinions differed so greatly from mine, that I should post an opposing view- point. I expressed a love for my country and support for her in a time of great peril. I specifically stated that I did NOT question the motives of those whose opinions differed from mine. I was immediately attacked and called sanctimonious by a respondent from Westbury, NY. I replied to him in the same manner that he chose to respond to me. I admit I decided to have a little fun in my second message by pointing out what I thought to be inconsistencies, absurdities, and generally counter-productive policies of the "peace activists." You apparently took umbrage at my message and posted a reply containing false and unproveable information. Your most recent posts are articulate and further clarify and solidify your position. Good job! A minor point I take issue with is your statement that>>>the NY Times, LA Times, and the very credible and respected authors Kurt Vonnegut and Noam Chomsky have all given rave reviews<<< to the book "THE FIRE THIS TIME" by Ramsay Clark. You might have added "far-left-wing" to your description of the publications and authors you mention. Ramsay Clark??? Noam Chomsky??? You can't seriously expect the day to arrive in America when the likes of those guys are representative of mainstream America. It was either Lenin or Stalin who referred to radical authors like Clark and Chomsky as "useful idiots." It was the only time I can recall agreeing with anything that came out of the USSR, our late and lamented world power rival. Nevertheless, I will check with the library to see if they have a copy of the book, and if they do I'll read it. For personal reasons, I refuse to spend any money to purchase the book. (Besides, I'm almost broke from purchasing an extensive collection of pro-Bush tee shirts). I was chagrined to read in one of your posts that you thought I had failed to make any point in my messages. As our friends the French would say, "Au Contrare!" My main point in posting anything in the first place was to point out the fact that the so-called peace demonstrations, both here and abroad, were more anti-American than they were "pro-peace" or "anti-war." I also offered to retract that statement if you or anyone else could refer me to a credible source which showed even ONE, just ONE, picture of a placard, banner, poster, sign, etc. which was presented at any of the demonstrations, which was critical of Saddam or Iraqi policies, or urged Saddam to cooperate fully with UN inspectors, or anything similar. Neither you nor anyone else replied... point made!!! I also thought I presented a strong argument for linking Saddam with international terrorism when I explained that the Israelis had uncovered documentation (when they smashed Arafat's compound last fall) which showed evidence of Saddam paying $25,000 to the surviving families of the Palestinian murderer-bombers. Anyone who thinks that the upcoming conflict with Iraq does not also involve Israel and Palestine is ignoring the obvious, in my opinion. I admit that I have strong opinions regarding the so-called peace demonstrations. I have first-hand experience with how devestating anti-war protests were on the troops' morale in Vietnam (and those protests were more justified than those of today). I am determined to do everything in my power to counteract the protest demonstrations and support our troops in the best way I know how. I attended a "Rally for America" in Denver a few weeks ago. About 300 of us were there, as opposed to an earlier protest rally which had several thousand in attendance. Of course, the "peace lovers" stood across the street and shouted things like "Fascist" and other choice comments in our direction. A few days later a letter to the editor appeared in the Denver Post in which the writer ridiculed and complained about our small gathering. She said, in part: "I don't care if there were only 300 people there. As far as I'm concerned, that's 300 too many!" I kid you not! I thought surely people are okay with someone having a different opinion from theirs. But not that crowd, and certainly not that particular letter writer. It was like our very existence was unacceptable to them! A very chilling experience!! You made a point in your last message which stated that >>>Those in the middle-east do not understand us and our way of life because of how they were taught<<<. Well, I agree. I think we ought to teach them differently! You and I most likely disagree on the most effective methods for re-educating them, though. See, I don't care WHY they hate us, I don't want to invite them over to the next Rotary Club banquet to evaluate our way of life, and I don't want to hold hands with them while we sit around the campfire singing "Cumbaya". I want to defeat them! I want to prevent another attack on America, and I am 100% certain that you do also. We just disagree on the best way to accomplish our goals, and no amount of shouting by either of us is going to change the other's mind. I respectfully disagree with your statement that >>> if destroying half of Iraq is how we are going to get rid of him.....<<<. Were you exaggerating, or do you actually believe that we would destroy half of Iraq in the upcoming war? Of course, if Saddam unleashes his weapons of mass destruction (you know, those ones he claims he doesn't possess), sets the oil wells on fire, blows up the dams, etc., then you may well be right in your assessment of the damage. But that's really up to Saddam, isn't it? I just don't think it's wise or in our national interest to stand back and see what some madman in the middle-east is going to do next. I agree with your observation that >>>We are the most powerful force the world has ever seen...<<<. Well, we didn't get that way by standing around waiting for things to happen!!! I believe peace activists have good intentions... we all want peace, we all want security, and none of us want another big surprise like 9/11. I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering what the terrorist alert condition is each day, and I don't think you do either. My firm belief is that by taking strong and forceful action now, we will hasten the day when peace comes at last to the middle-east. Many of us agree that it is past time that those governments who rule their countries like it was still the Twelfth Century, be brought up-to-date! It is an admittedly huge task we face. I know we are up to the challenge! Take care!

First I have to say, there are no mistakes in my grammar and as for my spelling, wow, I spelt Saddam- Sadamm. Secondly, what can you say, you cant even spell rebuttal. Now no one, at least not myself, is making fun of you etc. for your beliefs. You and only you started the debate here. You came down on the presidential administration and a possibility of war. You spill words of hate towards your own government, yet you dont want the American people to voice their opinions back to you. Thats really not fair, is it? The American people are not racist towards these people; this is not why we may see another WW. The book youre boasting about is about racism, not war, not what we are arguing over. I want my children to have a future and if Saddam and Bin Laden arent destroyed, I dont see a future for my children. Upsetting as that may be to you. Yes, any true American would say that they literally hate Saddam and Bin Laden. How could anyone not? They Murdered innocent men, women and children. You need to understand, weather anyone likes or wants war, or possibly WW3, it is inevitable. If we dont stop people like this, we will live in fear the rest of our lives. That is not a life any one of us wants to live. As for North Korea, hell yes we should be worried. We already know that they have a warhead that could hit our western states. Like I said in my last rebuttal, what are we going to do when all our troops are oversees and there is no one left to protect us here? I can understand anyone debating this. North Korea is looking for that kind of edge over us. I am in no way racist towards the Iraqi people nor Muslims. But, I dont protect and give my respect to those that want to use their women and children as a fighting force. You talk about a brainwashing, there you go. All our information has come from the government and news. They are the most reliable, not here-say from friends and those only supporting peace. We will never be able to give peace a chance until our people are 100% safe. And yes, even after we defeat Saddam and Bin Laden, there will always be someone else. Thats life, like it or not. But some choices we dont have. When 9/11 happened, 98% of the American people backed the president, now because he wants to insure our safety, only 50%+ will back him. Sad isnt it? 9/11 is just like Pearl Harbor and Pearl Harbor began WW2. Like I said, like it or not, its going to happen. Its better to back the administration than be divided for selfish reasons. I particularly dont like war, Im sure most dont, but this has to happen. Those countries not in support of us arent because of their own selfish gain. We cant stop that, no one can. But, at this point in time, we have to do what is right for our own people. We cant always stop and think about the rights and wrongs of any war. They will always be the same. If you want to stop and think, then think about our points of views and not just your own. Read what you wrote, youre thinking and defending one side. You dont have an opened mind about this. Check the real sources, you may then change your mind. But living and thinking that this is based on racism, youre way off. If this were racist, we would be attaching our own people, anyone different then ourselves.

April I've got to ask you "Have you read what David has had to say?" And you say Audrey and I need a life and are cowards? I'm not even going to bother addressing the comments you made about me but as for Audrey's ability to articulate herself, did you bother rereading the second paragraph of you last rebuttle? A little self-check of one's own grammar and spelling would be appropriate if you are going to criticize someone else. Wouldn't you say? But since this is not an English course we don't need to go there. Ok, enough of that. What I would like to do is make a recommendation to all who are for an attack on Iraq. Ramsey Clark has written a book titled "THE FIRE THIS TIME" that chronicles the first Gulf War conflict and Americas role in helping to instigate it. The NY Times, LA Times, and the very credible and respected authors Kurt Vonnegut and Noam Chomsky have all given the title rave reviews. If anyone here that thinks this war should be a GO then they absolutely must read this book. And if you do not you will be doing yourself an incredible injustice. Most of us in America have formed an opinion about Iraq one way or another. Unfortunately, what most of us have not done, is to continue to seek out information and research the real scenario that is taking place. This means not only looking for information not presented by our national news and media and seeking out private and public information by non-governmental and international sources. Even the least informed person would have to recognize that terrorism must be stopped. And those states that house and harbor terrorists must be stopped, however, you will see that the U.S. has some dirty laundry of its own when it comes to terrorism. In a previous rebuttle I mentioned some other military initiatives that have taken place such as Panama, Guatamalla, and the Phillippines. I will not go into detail but will also highly recommend all of you to research what happened in those brutal conflicts. Also, I would like to add that anyone criticizing another because the do not believe in this war is feeble minded. Its always normal to disagree but insulting and threatening a persons safety because they feel a certain way is what a dictorial government would have created not a democracy. And none of us want that right? Or maybe its the kind of country we are becoming I don't know. I certainly hope not though. So if you love America so much and truly love what it stands for then you should follow suit and jump on board the Democracy wagon and have debate rather than spitting stupid, idiotic defamatory comments at one another. A new day has dawned for our world. Most experts would say that this is the most critical time the world community has ever faced. Since September 11th, our country and other countries have not been, and never will be the same. But we must not let it divide us through debate as unhealthy as this. Since the dawn of man, conflict has been a regular part of world civilizations. But like the old saying goes "All good things must come to an end." We are the most powerful force the world has ever seen both culturally and militarilly. Instead of using the militarilly part to our advantage we must seek to unite through our culture. Those in the middle-east do not understand us and our way of life because of how they were taught. They weren't born that way. Just as David, from Arizona, wasn't born a hateful racist, he was raised that way. It is this ignorance that fuels much of the hate in them towards us. If we launch military strikes against their neighbor(s), it will do nothing more than manifest and create hundreds of thousands of more martyrs and suicide ready children in the region. IT'S NEVER GOING TO STOP. If this happens its almost invevitable that Nuclear alternatives will HAVE to be considered against those middle-eastern countries. And let us not forget who borders the middle-east----Europe. If you thought two jumbo jets full of jet fuel bringing down two of the largest structures in the world was scary just think of a couple of five mile-high mushroom clouds lighting up the sky in a reqion of the world that already despises us. Yes this is the worst case scenario, but looking at the problem in North Korea (and previously India vs. Pakistan) we must realize that the threat of these Nuclear alternatives loom drearily over our heads now. And you and I all know this would certainly bring about the possibility of another World War or even worse. The division of man has always been about beliefs and misunderstanding of one another. How will this stop if we stop diplomacy and result to military conflict every time there is a dispute between international communities. Has our government even one time offered to talk one on one with Saddam Husein or other terrorist states? No, they just want to eliminate them. And that is understandable but what ramifications does this unwillingness to talk bring about. It brings about more animosity and misunderstanding of one another. We could EASILY have a good relationship with Iraq if he were gone and they had a democracy, however, if destroying half of Iraq is how we are going to get rid of him, we are creating an even bigger monster than the one that already exists. And the world recognizes this but we don't for some reason (OUR own economic infrastructure). When will the day come when we can all travel anywhere in the world and enjoy the scenery and cultural beauty of another land without the threat of hate because of our nationality? I for one would love to see some of the beautiful palaces and kingdoms of the middle-east. Just as many in the middle-east would love to come to America and see our National forests and other treasures and just enjoy the personal freedoms we hold so dearly to our hearts. But if our governments continue to brainwash us into conflict for only their own personal betterment or betternment of their country then that day is never going to come. Does this hope make me Iraqi or an Arab lover. Absolutely! Mankind is my brother, it is my sister, it is my father. It is my neighbor and it is my peer living on soil far from mine. We are all God's children regardless of belief or color of skin. I've never anything in the bible that told me different. And feel free to prove me wrong if you will. So if we do anything in our lives it should be to teach our children to embrace others and to be the the change that they see for the future. They will be the ones that eventually feel the blunt end of this heavy stick that is being waved and it will be them who ultimately pay the biggest price for the governments actions of the now. Yes, we should "Give Peace a Chance". Thank you. Hi, David I hope you are well, no hard feelings.

If any of you were to argue about more and more of our troops being sent to us worrying about the actual protection of our country at that point, I would fully understand. As for Audreys ridiculous rebuttal, which was very hard to read and understand, you really have no clue about the real world. I worry about my childrens safety and future and support this war, but to you, that makes me a bad parent. Any parent that isnt worried that if we dont stop Sadamm now, well have to fight him in the future is living in a dream world. The fact of the matter is, this egotistical SOB will attack us sooner or later, is that really what the American people want, I dont think so. This needs to end now. Say stupid things like, Lets go after Bill since we cant get Bob is showing just how much you really dont understand the situation. Bin Laden is a BIG threat to the US and Sadamm is not much farther behind. Sadamm has weapons of mass destruction and funds, equips, gives weapons and hides Bin Laden, his organization and other terrorist organizations. In my book (and most) that makes him just as bad, if not more. As to the same remarks of the US attaching defenseless countries, then you are living in the dream world. This country is anything but defenseless. As I simply stated previously, these men are stating that they will make the woman and children fight. This isnt defenseless this is utter democracy. Any man that would say something that ruthless without hesitation doesnt deserve any respect or to even live. The most retarded things you said were, I beat up someone because I think he is going to beat me up after all the president did it. And, I want Tommys toys so I will father around his house and threaten to blow it up if he doesnt give them to me. What, are you in the first grade? These analogies are just plain stupid. If any child says something this stupid, because his/her idiot parent makes these analogies, the parent should burn in hell. Its just plain stupid. I was against the war when it was first discussed, but now I am for it. Lets protect the US and our childrens future, if that doesnt mean s**t to you, you need a life.

Every day we hear Saddam is going o do this Saddam I going to do that. Ever since 1991 Saddam has told nothing but Bold Faced lies. Even after the UN Inspection team located missiles in Iraq. Saddam sat there and told Dan Rather "I don't have any Missiles" Saddam Hussein will stop at NOTHING to achieve his goals and if he is not put to bed now in another 10years time we will have another situation similar to what is currently developing in N.Korea. The difference being Saddam will have no issues in launching the missiles. Do you think the man who refused to destroy the missiles we knew about is going to destroy the one that we don't know about? You also have to ask yourself a man who has no problem killing thousand of his own people just how mentally stable is he really, how long before he snap and does something that will really get the world in uproar. Currently France, Germany and Russia do business with Iraq. The money generated from this business is around $5.5bn / yr with 3.4bn of that going to France. Wonder why they are so opposed with War in Iraq. If you have a Rattlesnake in your home do you wait to see if it's going to bite or do you do something before it does? I rest my Case.