- Report: #86406
Complaint Review: Chain Ranch Sportsman Club - Canton Oklahoma
-
Author Not Confirmed
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Chain Ranch Sportsman Club
http://www.chainranch.com/sportsmans/ Canton, Oklahoma, U.S.A.
Phone:
580-886-2910
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Chain Ranch Sportsman Club ripoff No Birds, Bad Dog and Dog Handler, No Customer Service Canton Oklahoma
*UPDATE Employee: Sharing the truth
*Author of original report: hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
*Author of original report: hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
*Author of original report: hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
*Author of original report: hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: More Truth Than You Realize
*REBUTTAL Owner of company: the integrity and ethics that have made the Chain Ranch a successful operation for the past 110 years
We went to the Chain Ranch for a pheasant hunt on 13 March 2004. We arrived at the ranch about 8:00 AM that morning expecting a good day of hunting. There was to be a total of five hunters however one was not able to make the trip. Paul, who had set up the hunt, had asked us how many birds we wanted and if it would be alright if Bill could bring his black lab. No one had any problem with this. We had told Paul we would like six birds each and inquired of the price and was told $22 for each bird. There was no mention of a guide fee or a dog guide fee. Only four of us were hunting.
The guide drives up shortly after we arrived and said that the birds were in place and he was ready when we were. In the back of his truck were two dogs, in a two dog box. After a short stop for Mother Nature, we were on our way to the hunting area.
Bill got his dog out and we proceeded to the hunting area ready for a good day of shooting and having fun. We had done this type of hunt many times (not at the Chain Ranch) so we had high expectations of a good hunt and lots of shooting, birds, and fun. Things went quickly down hill from here.
There was a stiff breeze from the south that day, but we had never had problems with the wind before even when the wind was stiff. (I have hunted birds with my father my whole life with world class champions for bird dogs.) The guide made his first mistake taking us with the wind directly to our backs. Another mistake was that at the far end of the field were some cattle. We walked the entire length of the field and had not even seen a single bird. The dog seemed to be working well, just no birds. We made a wide sweep to go into the wind and had not yet completed the turn when one bird got up at my feet. Startled, by the time I was on the bird Don took a shot and the bird was down.
We completed our turn and the cattle that were once at the far end of the field had now moved out in front of us. After a couple of wild flushes caused by the cattle, a situation that gave us no shots, we proceeded to walk the other half of the field into the wind. At no time did the dog even hint of a bird. Of course the cattle had done a pretty good job of flushing or scaring the birds away from us as they continued on their journey towards the barns on the far south and west side of the field. We finally did get a bird up on the west side of the field and Don again took aim and hit. About that time I saw three birds on the ground coming my way (east). The guide then also noticed them and was able to flush them. I took aim at the first one up and saw I had hit it when the second had come up; I shot the second one but felt that he was not hit hard so I shot again and the bird went down. About that time the third bird came up and with my gun being empty I was not able to shoot and the bird got away. Score at this point was 4 birds.
Bill's lab had not done to well so Bill decided to put his dog up and the guide got out one of his dogs. We then walked the same field down and back again with the guides' dog. The dog did not do any better than Bill's, but did point at a field lark or two. One bird is all we even saw on this round with only one shot taken and one bird hit, Don again was in the right place. We returned to the vehicles and just before we got to the trucks a bird got up and both I and Don shot this bird simultaneously. Six birds shot at and six birds taken. We placed all the birds in the back of the truck with the guides' dogs and noticed there was no place for any live birds. No pen, no bags, no way for transporting birds. Hmmmm!
The guide then took us to another field and again walked us directly with the wind at our backs. His dog finally pointed and one bird got up and was shot by both Paul and his grandson but the dog could not find this bird in the tall grass. The guide then took us back toward the truck and told us to walk on both sides of the road in the bar ditch. (Hunting from the road is illegal in Oklahoma.) There was nothing to worry about though as only one bird got up on a fence row and was shot at by Paul but not hit. We returned to the trucks and drove back to the ranch house as our hunt was over. While we were on our last trek, another ranch-hand had come by and got the birds for cleaning. We were handed some bags. One bag had two birds; the others I suppose had one each. Six birds. The guide then informed us to follow him and we went into town for lunch. This was the best part of the trip. The lunch was on them, but if I had known the rest of this story I would have ordered some extra take out, and perhaps had a steak or two for lunch.
After lunch the guide informed us it was time to pay-up. We followed him to the parking area and was given a bill for $870.00!!!! Seems it was $22 for each bird they said they put out, plus $100 for the guide and use of the dog! They said they put out 35 birds. Paul told each of us what we owed ($175 each) and we gave him the money. Since this was only a ranch-hand we paid and would seek a refund later. Afterward Paul apologized for the lousy hunt. I commented to my friend Don that it was probably the only time in history that four armed men were held-up and robbed by an unarmed man.
Paul contacted the owner after we returned and was told by Mr. Newley Hutchison that he would refund half our money or have us back for a free hog hunt (a $50 value). Needless to say we took the half. At least most did. I decide to contact Mr. Hutchison my self also when I returned home that day and told Newley what I thought of his hunt and that I thought (in my opinion) that he had sent us on a "clean-up" hunt (a hunt where no birds are put out for you, but you shoot leftovers from previous hunts). I felt like he should give us 100% of our money back. I also told him that I felt like I had been robbed. He responded telling me that he was going to give 50% of the money back to everyone except me because I had called him a thief. I responded back to him that it didn't matter if he kept it or sent back 50% as my wise dad once told me "If a man steals your money then feels guilty and tries to give part of it back don't take it. Giving part of your money back doesn't make him any less of a thief."
James
OKC, Oklahoma
U.S.A.
The guide drives up shortly after we arrived and said that the birds were in place and he was ready when we were. In the back of his truck were two dogs, in a two dog box. After a short stop for Mother Nature, we were on our way to the hunting area.
Bill got his dog out and we proceeded to the hunting area ready for a good day of shooting and having fun. We had done this type of hunt many times (not at the Chain Ranch) so we had high expectations of a good hunt and lots of shooting, birds, and fun. Things went quickly down hill from here.
There was a stiff breeze from the south that day, but we had never had problems with the wind before even when the wind was stiff. (I have hunted birds with my father my whole life with world class champions for bird dogs.) The guide made his first mistake taking us with the wind directly to our backs. Another mistake was that at the far end of the field were some cattle. We walked the entire length of the field and had not even seen a single bird. The dog seemed to be working well, just no birds. We made a wide sweep to go into the wind and had not yet completed the turn when one bird got up at my feet. Startled, by the time I was on the bird Don took a shot and the bird was down.
We completed our turn and the cattle that were once at the far end of the field had now moved out in front of us. After a couple of wild flushes caused by the cattle, a situation that gave us no shots, we proceeded to walk the other half of the field into the wind. At no time did the dog even hint of a bird. Of course the cattle had done a pretty good job of flushing or scaring the birds away from us as they continued on their journey towards the barns on the far south and west side of the field. We finally did get a bird up on the west side of the field and Don again took aim and hit. About that time I saw three birds on the ground coming my way (east). The guide then also noticed them and was able to flush them. I took aim at the first one up and saw I had hit it when the second had come up; I shot the second one but felt that he was not hit hard so I shot again and the bird went down. About that time the third bird came up and with my gun being empty I was not able to shoot and the bird got away. Score at this point was 4 birds.
Bill's lab had not done to well so Bill decided to put his dog up and the guide got out one of his dogs. We then walked the same field down and back again with the guides' dog. The dog did not do any better than Bill's, but did point at a field lark or two. One bird is all we even saw on this round with only one shot taken and one bird hit, Don again was in the right place. We returned to the vehicles and just before we got to the trucks a bird got up and both I and Don shot this bird simultaneously. Six birds shot at and six birds taken. We placed all the birds in the back of the truck with the guides' dogs and noticed there was no place for any live birds. No pen, no bags, no way for transporting birds. Hmmmm!
The guide then took us to another field and again walked us directly with the wind at our backs. His dog finally pointed and one bird got up and was shot by both Paul and his grandson but the dog could not find this bird in the tall grass. The guide then took us back toward the truck and told us to walk on both sides of the road in the bar ditch. (Hunting from the road is illegal in Oklahoma.) There was nothing to worry about though as only one bird got up on a fence row and was shot at by Paul but not hit. We returned to the trucks and drove back to the ranch house as our hunt was over. While we were on our last trek, another ranch-hand had come by and got the birds for cleaning. We were handed some bags. One bag had two birds; the others I suppose had one each. Six birds. The guide then informed us to follow him and we went into town for lunch. This was the best part of the trip. The lunch was on them, but if I had known the rest of this story I would have ordered some extra take out, and perhaps had a steak or two for lunch.
After lunch the guide informed us it was time to pay-up. We followed him to the parking area and was given a bill for $870.00!!!! Seems it was $22 for each bird they said they put out, plus $100 for the guide and use of the dog! They said they put out 35 birds. Paul told each of us what we owed ($175 each) and we gave him the money. Since this was only a ranch-hand we paid and would seek a refund later. Afterward Paul apologized for the lousy hunt. I commented to my friend Don that it was probably the only time in history that four armed men were held-up and robbed by an unarmed man.
Paul contacted the owner after we returned and was told by Mr. Newley Hutchison that he would refund half our money or have us back for a free hog hunt (a $50 value). Needless to say we took the half. At least most did. I decide to contact Mr. Hutchison my self also when I returned home that day and told Newley what I thought of his hunt and that I thought (in my opinion) that he had sent us on a "clean-up" hunt (a hunt where no birds are put out for you, but you shoot leftovers from previous hunts). I felt like he should give us 100% of our money back. I also told him that I felt like I had been robbed. He responded telling me that he was going to give 50% of the money back to everyone except me because I had called him a thief. I responded back to him that it didn't matter if he kept it or sent back 50% as my wise dad once told me "If a man steals your money then feels guilty and tries to give part of it back don't take it. Giving part of your money back doesn't make him any less of a thief."
James
OKC, Oklahoma
U.S.A.
7 Updates & Rebuttals
Jerick
Canton,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
the integrity and ethics that have made the Chain Ranch a successful operation for the past 110 years
#2REBUTTAL Owner of company
Thu, October 07, 2004
The Chain Ranch employs mainly family members in the hunting operation. The only former employees that once worked for us, assisting with some guiding and dog handling, now run their own commercial hunting preserve, which is in direct competition with the Chain Ranch in the Canton area. Since the supposed ex-employee did not identify himself, thus protected by the vail of anonymity, he feels comfortable making outrageous claims that are not only false but slanderous. As I've stated in a previous response, we have thousands of men, women, and children hunt our ranch annually. The vast majority of those individuals return as client year after year. Our reputation has been solidified by the wonderful experience that those individuals have had at our ranch. We recognized the fact that James did not have that wonderful experience and we attempted to rectify the situation until he became rude and demeaning. The fact that an ex-employee turned competitor has attempted to validate those claims will not deter us from our continued pursuit of the "Ultimate Outdoor Adventure". I'm confident that the integrity and ethics that have made the Chain Ranch a successful operation for the past 110 years will continue to be evident in our operation. We welcome everyone to experience it for themselves. Club Manager
Rocha
Canton,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
More Truth Than You Realize
#3UPDATE EX-employee responds
Wed, July 28, 2004
I worked for the Chain Ranch and was a wittness to the very practice of this scam. The owners were not aware of the deception and rip-off the bird handlers and guides were performing. We saw so many people that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn they decided to keep some of the birds they were supposed to put out and take them home for cleaning. I worked for the ranch a little over 3 years and just could not be a part of this type of scam. You think the bird scam was bad? You should hear the things we used to o for the deer and hog hunts. But that is another story.
James
Midwest City,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
#4Author of original report
Wed, May 12, 2004
I appreciate the reply however, I have hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing hunt ever. You say you put the birds out but read my report. I can add one other thing that will tell all that no birds were put out. Not only were there no places for birds to be placed in the vehicle to transport to the field, there were no vehicle tracks in the field. I would doubt that anyone would walk 35 birds and place them by hand. My advice to anyone that wants to hunt at the chain ranch is to reconsider. Ask Don who also went on this hunt. He will never go to another chain ranch hunt again. He calls it the "Chain Reaction Ripoff". We joke about the hunt whenever we need a good laugh. The chain ranch. What a joke. No doubt Paul will go hunt the pigs you trap and release. That is his business. Your money is no good to me. I have never taken stollen property from anyone and will not start now. If you want a Great hunt, go somewhere else. Real Christians don't steal.
James
Midwest City,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
#5Author of original report
Wed, May 12, 2004
I appreciate the reply however, I have hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing hunt ever. You say you put the birds out but read my report. I can add one other thing that will tell all that no birds were put out. Not only were there no places for birds to be placed in the vehicle to transport to the field, there were no vehicle tracks in the field. I would doubt that anyone would walk 35 birds and place them by hand. My advice to anyone that wants to hunt at the chain ranch is to reconsider. Ask Don who also went on this hunt. He will never go to another chain ranch hunt again. He calls it the "Chain Reaction Ripoff". We joke about the hunt whenever we need a good laugh. The chain ranch. What a joke. No doubt Paul will go hunt the pigs you trap and release. That is his business. Your money is no good to me. I have never taken stollen property from anyone and will not start now. If you want a Great hunt, go somewhere else. Real Christians don't steal.
James
Midwest City,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
#6Author of original report
Wed, May 12, 2004
I appreciate the reply however, I have hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing hunt ever. You say you put the birds out but read my report. I can add one other thing that will tell all that no birds were put out. Not only were there no places for birds to be placed in the vehicle to transport to the field, there were no vehicle tracks in the field. I would doubt that anyone would walk 35 birds and place them by hand. My advice to anyone that wants to hunt at the chain ranch is to reconsider. Ask Don who also went on this hunt. He will never go to another chain ranch hunt again. He calls it the "Chain Reaction Ripoff". We joke about the hunt whenever we need a good laugh. The chain ranch. What a joke. No doubt Paul will go hunt the pigs you trap and release. That is his business. Your money is no good to me. I have never taken stollen property from anyone and will not start now. If you want a Great hunt, go somewhere else. Real Christians don't steal.
James
Midwest City,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing
#7Author of original report
Wed, May 12, 2004
I appreciate the reply however, I have hunted for over 40 years and this was the MOST disappointing hunt ever. You say you put the birds out but read my report. I can add one other thing that will tell all that no birds were put out. Not only were there no places for birds to be placed in the vehicle to transport to the field, there were no vehicle tracks in the field. I would doubt that anyone would walk 35 birds and place them by hand. My advice to anyone that wants to hunt at the chain ranch is to reconsider. Ask Don who also went on this hunt. He will never go to another chain ranch hunt again. He calls it the "Chain Reaction Ripoff". We joke about the hunt whenever we need a good laugh. The chain ranch. What a joke. No doubt Paul will go hunt the pigs you trap and release. That is his business. Your money is no good to me. I have never taken stollen property from anyone and will not start now. If you want a Great hunt, go somewhere else. Real Christians don't steal.
Jerick Henley
Edmond,Oklahoma,
U.S.A.
Sharing the truth
#8UPDATE Employee
Mon, May 10, 2004
There is no doubt that James and his group experienced a less than perfect hunt. However, as the booking agent for the Ranch, I can assure you that although our hunts are not a guarantee, we strive for customer satisfaction. It has been our policy to offer reductions in the fee if the client is not satisfied. Again, this rarely is necessary but is something we are convicted to do to maintain our reputation and repeat business. Unfortunately, there are several items missing from James' description of these events. His group did not harvest all thirty-five birds that were released but they were placed in the field for him the morning of the hunt. This was not a clean up hunt from a previous outing. Secondly, James did send an email to our club manager but the email was not a simple request for a refund. James was very adamant about the fact that we robbed him, several times calling us thieves. He strongly demanded all of his money back and threatened to "spread the word" about this robbery. At this point, we still would have refunded his money...as we have agreed to do for the others in the group. However, James continued to proceed with his email which then began to attack our Christian faith and heritage. At that point, I and Newley concluded that we would not make a refund available and would not extend an invitation to him for a return visit. In closing, after five years of booking hunts for the Chain Ranch, this is the first time I have been personally attacked by a client. The thousands of hunters that have come before James have left the Chain Ranch with a quality outdoor experience and we will continue to provide the "Ultimate Outdoor Experience" for the thousands of clients to come. We will stand by our integrity and our conviction regarding James' attack on our 110 year history as a family operated ranch. Sincerely,
