Complaint Review: David D Shipler - Austin Minnesota

   First of all, I do not own this site.   While posters here are often accused of being someone else, this is the first time anyone has claimed that I own this site.  That's pretty funny.  I'll not address your issues with how this site is run, as that is something that is outside my control.  I suggest you take it up with the actual site owner. 

   While you are correct that criminal libel statutes exist, review case histories on when they have actually been used.    I think you'll find that such charges are rarely filed and only proceed when serious non-monetary consequences have occured.   The notion that this person's post(s) rise to the criminal level are absurd.  Equating your situation with the Drew case (which, by the way, was not a criminal libel case) is equally absurd.   If you really have the finest legal talent in the country, they should have explained that to you.   

  If I understand your reward strategy, you're hoping to attract someone who knows the OP and will claim that he told them about his malicious posts?   Oh yeah, that'll build a strong case :-)))))  Nothing like a paid witness to impress the court.   Does your legal team approve of this strategy?  

"  Plus, the reward will induce continual panic attacks in the authors of these fictitious posts "

  I suspect that this is the entire reason behind your reward offer.   It sometimes works, but only if you don't overplay your hand.    

  If you succeed in getting this person prosecuted for criminal libel, I will not only apologize, I will publicly proclaim you to be a genius of godlike proportions.

  Good luck.

Dear Flynrider,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to our reward offer, while also offering our firm free legal advice.  That was an awfully gracious and kind thing for you to do.  However, the tone and insults included in your response indicate you have an "iron in the fire" with regards to these postings, which will obviously incite curiosity amongst readers as to what that interest may be.  Let's see.... you claim to be from Phoenix, and... wait.... RipOffReport headquarters, staffing and legal representation happen to be located in the greater Phoenix area.  OK, that may just be a strong clue as to exactly who you are and why you would want to write the response you wrote.  As either the site owner, company staffer or legal representative, you certainly have the right and authority to interject as you see fit, and you raise interesting points in your response.  However the attitude and response betray your objectivity in the matter.  So let's review your response and determine whether it has any merit.

"There are accepted legal means of identifying posters on this site and it costs a lot less than $30K.    Identifying posters outside of those legal procedures would necessarily involve hacking and would not result in any legally usable evidence.    I don't think you have a clue."

Sounds great!  So you're claiming we can accomplish our objective of uncovering the competitor who wrote this for less than our reward offer?  I have to agree with you that we can file suit against the online personality, and the court would require you, or the actual ROR site owner if it's not you, to divulge the registration details of the posting party via the discovery process.  That wouldn't cost much, and heck, we don't even need an attorney to do that.   But you have to understand that we're dealing with bottom of the barrel low-lifes here, and everything they submitted to ROR in their registration was false... and everything they submitted to their email provider was false, and they no doubt used a public computer or someone else's computer to both open the email account they provided ROR upon registration, and for the actual libelous postings.  What... you don't think David Shipler in Austin MN is a real person, do you?  If so, just call the number this scumball provided, and see who answers.  Wait, I'll save you the time, it's an older gentleman in Minnesota who has never heard of David Shipler and has never had any dealings with our company.  So where does that leave us in pursuing their identity?  That's right... we're chasing a Ghost if we do it your way.  But you have to understand something about scumballs.... they LOVE bragging about their crimes, especially against an upstanding competitor like our firm that cleans their clock and eats their lunch day in and day out, week after week, month after month.  They have told others of their crime, and there were assistants involved... we know that for a fact as they have already contacted us.  These eyewitnesses were reluctant to come forward because they felt threatened and intimidated by the criminals who posted these lies from the deep recesses of hell.   $30,000 may not be much to you, but to these guys who have total knowledge of the crimes, it will be more than enough to make it worth their while to drop dime on the kingpins of this online extortion campaign.  Plus, the reward will induce continual panic attacks in the authors of these fictitious posts, as they know it's now just a matter of time before judgement day comes for them, and their fleeting time of freedom to traipse across this country committing crimes and causing mayhem will soon come to an end.   They don't deserve one restful, peaceful moment for the rest of their lives as far as we're concerned.  I never mentioned hacking their accounts to see who they are, and yes.. it wouldn't be legally useful if we did.  Now that you know what I know, please reconsider your analysis and tell me in your expert opinion... do I have a clue?

I'm not sure if you're trying to pretend that you are a lawyer (with talk of depositions and such), but your interpretation of the law is a joke.   If you really believe that any prosecutor is going to consider this anything other than a civil libel case, you must be smoking some pretty powerful stuff.

We have the very finest legal representation in the country, so I don't have to pretend about anything.  Maybe you should do some homework to see what prosecutors have recently charged perpetrators in cases like these.  Please see this link on the Lori Drew Case :   http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/lori-drew-pla-5/  .  After reading that, tell me a Prosecutor won't charge someone with Felony Computer Hacking for pretending to be someone they're not online, and damaging the reputation of another.  You also seem to be married to the idea that libel is a civil matter.  That is a marriage doomed for divorce, as it is predicated on a lie.  Question:  How many states is libel considered a criminal offense?  Your Answer has thus far been 0.  BONG!!  Incorrect.  Libel is a crime in 8 states, including Kansas, where we understand the first 2 libelous postings against our company were filed from in May of '09.  Sadly enough, it is not a federal crime.... yet.  But that's ok, as it happens to be a crime in the states our not so smart drive by posters are posting from, so we're protected.   Now, tell me... who's smoking what, and who doesn't have a clue?  Do you owe me an apology yet?

"Writing lies is not a crime.   The first amendment allows wide latitude in this respect.  Redress for consequences of written untruths that cause damagaes is found in the civil courts.  

Care to retract that statement?  Prove to me that libel is not a crime in 8 states and I will give YOU a reward!  Once again.... WHO is clueless?


"Your amateurish rebuttal does not lend credibility to your case."

Once again... WHO is the amateur?  Is an apology in order?  Look, I don't have a problem with the concept of your site, but I do have a problem with the way it's being administered.  You shouldn't just allow anybody to come in willy nilly and destroy the reputation of others without an investigation first.  Who should do the investigating?  You, as it's your site and you are administering the forum, and it's you who are promoting these postings to the search engines through questionable SEO techniques.  You have an ethical and moral responsibility to do so whether you want to admit it or not.  I don't care what the current "behind the curve" law states... rest assured, it will catch up with the times at some point, you will be required to do what you should have been doing all along.  Who should pay for the investigation?  The poster making the claim, as it's obviously in their interest to make their claim and warn others of a person or entity's unscrupulous nature.  If they truly have an altruistic reason to post these warnings, then they can ante up the investigation fee to verify their claims.   It would make your site more profitable, and would keep the sleazy characters away, as they don't even have credit cards in most cases.  The first thing that goes bad in a person of low character is their credit rating.  If you operated this way, you could sleep well at night, WITHOUT the need to smoke whatever it is YOU must be smoking to respond to me with such disrespectful tone and inaccurate claims.

There are accepted legal means of identifying posters on this site and it costs a lot less than $30K.    Identifying posters outside of those legal procedures would necessarily involve hacking and would not result in any legally usable evidence.    I don't think you have a clue.

"The individual responsible for these postings against the named company is obviously too ignorant to know he has committed 2 felonies... 1) Felony Computer Hacking, and 2) Extortion.  "

I'm not sure if you're trying to pretend that you are a lawyer (with talk of depositions and such), but your interpretation of the law is a joke.   If you really believe that any prosecutor is going to consider this anything other than a civil libel case, you must be smoking some pretty powerful stuff.

" they committed the crime of writing these lies on this site "

Writing lies is not a crime.   The first amendment allows wide latitude in this respect.  Redress for consequences of written untruths that cause damagaes is found in the civil courts.  

Your amateurish rebuttal does not lend credibility to your case.

As a representative of the company libeled and maligned in this report, I do hereby notify all who read this post that the company libeled in the post to which this post rebuts will pay a $30,000 (thirty thousand U.S. Dollars) reward to the individual who provides positive information leading to the identification, subsequent arrest and conviction of the individual or entity responsible for posting this fake report on this website.
  
The individual responsible for these postings against the named company is obviously too ignorant to know he has committed 2 felonies... 1) Felony Computer Hacking, and 2) Extortion.  

1) Felony computer hacking charges may be brought against one who violates the terms of use of a website by assuming a false identity and stating lies about an individual or entity that does great harm.  

2) Felony charges of Extortion may be brought against one who publishes or connives at publishing any libel designed to induce another to take steps that would result in a benefit to the party committing the crime of extortion.  

In this case, our firm was threatened to not allow the sales people and drivers of a competing company to work for our firm... and when we ignored their demands, they committed the crime of writing these lies on this site, and posting them in such a way with headers containing our company name resulting in a high rank in Search Engine Results, in an attempt to harm our sales.  Have they been successful in harming our sales?  Yes they have.  Will they be prosecuted to the maximum extent to the law?  Yes they will.  

If you have information that would assist in identifying the perpetrators, Please email our company at [email protected].   Those who have already come forward with positive identification of the perpetrators, and those who have already contacted us in the past are invited to contact us again and make their appointment for a deposition.   In the event multiple individual's information and testimony is considered crucial in identifying and convicting the perpetrators, the $30,000 reward will be split based on the proportionate weight of the importance of the information provided in gaining a conviction, along with the witnesses' perceived credibility as a witness.  The order in which testimony was received will also be utilized in determining the split of the reward, so act today and write to [email protected], and share your key testimony today!