Complaint Review: DS-MAX Cydcor - Granton Peak Ten Top Flight Pro Advertising - Anytown Nationwide

Jason, thank you for your concern. To be honest with you though, I am much happier now - financially and socially. Let me address your first comment that my bad experience with the company was somehow a result of my actions. I can tell you that there was a recent investigation of the company I worked for that lead to the Pennsylvania Department of State issuing a cease and desist order for them. Here's a link to the site that has the info: http://www.dos.state.pa.us On top of that, my owner lied about his salary, his education, events, reasons people were "fired" (no one was ever fired, they quit and we were told differently), campaigns, and individual application values (credit card division). He also assigned territories to us where we were trespassing. After all this, in order for my bad experience to have been my fault, I'd have to have committed a felony on the job. I've never committed one. I do have to ask the obvious question though: Why did you leave? You said its what you wanted to do, right? So let's hear it... I am also curious as to what "facts" you were told, and how you know they "really happened". Most people who work for this company are somewhat naive, and will accept what people tell them as the truth without question. Your comments about how much you are worth being determined by an hourly wage is really funny and disturbing. It is funny because it is total BS. Only an immature fool would honestly beleive that a person's worth is determined by what thier hourly wage is. An intelligent person understands that an hourly wage is a determination of the value of a person's services. What's more is that it is based on the understanding that a normal person will work a full shift - they don't have to be reminded a dozen times to "work a full eight hours" before and after work. Your "hourly wage/personal value" argument is scary because its a very typical DSM philosophy. Not only is it wrong, but it also falls under the category of the "we - they" mentality that DSM cultures. I doubt it is an idea that you've given any kind of thought to on your own. You likely heard it once during an "opportunity meeting" and blindly took it as an absolute truth. If you notice, I've never said that commission work is bad. But I will say that you are totally dilusional if you think that there is no limit on how much you can make. Why do you think your owners spent all their time trying to find as many people as possible to do the work for them?

JAMES, I AM SORRY FOR YOU. I am sorry to hear about your so called experience with this company, but did you ever step back and look and see if it was caused by something you did. Probably not, knowing that you screwed up or take advantage of the situation. I am no longer with the company but it has nothing to do with anything that they told me or any lies. I know for a fact that everything that I was told really happened. Yeah, it might have meant staying for meetings or working for a full day but to me that is what I wanted. I really think you are scared of real work. Or maybe you like people telling you how much you are worth, because that is what you are doing working at an hourly wage. As a matter of fact, I worked for two different divisions of the company, advertising and wholesale and did well at both. By the way I don't know who this clown is from Raleigh,NC but he obviously knows nothing about the company. In fact when I was in the Baltimore office I went on A road trip to his office to do a promo for Reynolds Park Golf Course and everyone from our office went home every day with over 100 dollars in there pocket. Don't get me wrong though, if you work a full day you made good money. But if you go to a park and smoke weed all day how much do you expect to make. Although that job is not for everybody, if you don't mind working and don't like a limit put on how much you are worth an hour you might give it a shot. I would even go as far to say that given an opportunity I would move to get back on with them. Thanks for reading my input. from B-more

I have been reading reports such as these concerning DS-Max/Granton/Cydcor for some time now and I feel that maybe its time I put in my two cents. I worked for an affiliated company for approximately one year, eventually quitting (to this day i hate that word) to pursue another career. I am of the opinion that a truly effective argument must show a certain amount of subjective thought, so here goes my attempt at doing so... On one side, my time associated with this company provided me a few positives: I learned an outstanding work habit which many people in this country cannot even fathom. I made a couple lasting friends whom I still talk to and hang out with to this day. I can remember some very fun "team nights" as well as a few road trips that proved to be a great time. I met many a person in the field who brightened my day with a warm smile and a caring personality. I also carried on quite a few intriguing conversations with such people. Through good budgeting and persistence, I made enough money in the field to pay bills and have a little fun on the side (even without having to lie or mislead customers). Above all else, though, through neccessity, I developed an extroverted dimension to my personality that I had previously lacked. This has been of great help to me in both my professional and personal life ever since and for that reason, I see the value in my experience with DS-Max. On the other side, all the negative things that I have read about DS-Max and its affiliated offices, have been entirely true. I will not waste anybody's time by repeating all that has already been said when all you have to do is point and click. One thing that I do need to express is my deep sympathy for those people such as the boyfriend/girlfriend combination posted above. The reason for my sypathy is that the DS-Max system has corrupted (some say Brainwash) them into truly believing that their business is on the straight and narrow. I am not going to criticize them for saying so either, because they really believe in their hearts that that is true. And as for the guy who was doing "research" on possibly contracting some professionals, I just hope he is doing the same kind of research that I have done. I have talked to, in my best apporximation, over 325 current and previous managers within the DS-Max/Granton sceme. Ever since I was about two months into the business(when my "juicy" leader quit and raised my suspicions), I have talked to everyone from the highest of VP's, to the managers who lasted only a few months. I have known many of them to be deceitful, but also many who were just brutally honest, to everything in between. What I find to be the most startling of all my findings is the success rate of managers. What you are led to believe is that the rigorous training system in place is designed to weed out undeserving people and produce highly successful managers within the business world. This is most certainly not true. In a very few select cases (check VP listings) this theory rings true. But for the rest of those people who dream of financial freedom within DS-Max, believe me when I say that you have a better chance of going into debt as a manager then actually earning your six figure dream life. If you are an employee or manager reading this, please think of it this way; think about how many people you have seen come and go in your office. Think of all the distributors who didn't make it. Think of all the leaders who just couldnt take it. Think about the money problems that those people had as they worked 12 hour days for door to door comission. Now, apply all of those thoughts to management, because it is the same deal once you get there. Money is tough to come by and the odds are very much against you. Oh, yeah, and you do not run your own business. That cannot be stressed enough, YOU DO NOT RUN YOUR OWN BUSINESS! If you do not believe me, then do your own research. Its out there if you just know where to look and who to get in contact with. Anyways, I have said my piece. I am happy to say that I am well on my way to a successful career and I definately wish the same to all of you. In closing, I would just like to advise all of you employees, managers, or prospective employees of such offices to just be smart about it. If you are good at sales, and dont mind going door to door or the long hours, then it might be all right to try it for a while. You can make some money with a good product in the field. Just do not get caught up in all the hype. Treat it for what it is: A door to door sales business based on a multi level marketing scheme that has most all of the same qualities of a pyramid. Just because you work your butt off, teach the system perfectly, and are a model of positivity, does not guarantee you success within these companies. Set yourself a timeline and stick to it. If you are not where you want to be within the company by the time you want to be, get out. Also, to help you all out money wise, i suggest that you implement a pool within your office concerning training payment. That is, for every person trained for a day, the money is divided out of every leader's security. For example, if your office has six leaders and three distributors are being trained that day, and you pay 50 bucks a day for training. Divide the 150 to be paid by the six leaders in the office. This system cuts down on money paid individually and encourages active team building. Just trying to help you all out because I know there are many people who wont respond to statements such as "Get out now, this business sucks" because I would be looked at as someone who wasnt juicy enough and didnt have what it takes. So whether you believe everything I have just said or not, juicy people such as the boyfriend/girlfriend managers just need to take one thing to heart, remember that no matter how awesome you think the company and opportunity are right now, no matter how well you are doing right now, and no matter how stupid or negative you think us ex-employees are, you will eventually see how it really is....... It's just a matter of time. Sincerely,

Good job on avoiding the questions Gregg! But they are still there, waiting to be answered. It seems the fact remains that you know nothing about the companies discussed here. Sorry if I sounded "violent", but I find it disturbing that someone would suggest doing research when they clearly haven't done any themselves. On top of that you, after admitting that you didn't have a clue about DS-Max, suggested that those posting here were "...lashing out because they did not succeed...". That's pretty insulting considering what many of us have experienced in this company. What gives you the right to make that statement? So I ask you, with as much professionalism as I can muster; would you please do your research on DS-Max, answer my questions, and then report your findings? If you can't answer my questions, then don't bother posting. Its much more embarrassing when someone runs their mouth (or fingers) on a subject about which they haven't the slightest clue.

James, You truly have no class. Your comments need no reply except for this. You are an embarrassment to the people who are truly trying to accomplish something on this site! Please don't waste anyone's time picking apart people's letters with such violence, seek counceling, YOU NEED IT!

Just one piece... "I am an outsider to the companies in question but know a bit about them as I have done some research on many outsourced sales companies." So you admit to knowing nothing about DS-Max. What more do I need to read? I have made every effort to maintain a level of professionalism and maturity in my approach to this subject. I asked honest questions and those who responded, for the most part, did so as well. You admitted that you didn't know a thing about this company, criticized me for raising a valid complaint, and clearly didn't read the responses to my post. Dip-s**t, mind if I call you that, dip-s**t, answer me a few questions... 1. What is DS-Max? 2. What is their business structure? 3. What is their affiliation to WWI? 4. What is a leader? 5. What is a distributor? 6. What is JUICE? 7. What is a "COW"? 8. What is a "RHINO"? 9. What is atmosphere? 10. What are team nights? 11. What is a retrain? 12. What is a Day of O? 13. How is it that someone who claims to have "...hired my share of entry level and experienced sales executives..." ends statements with a question mark? So you were always taught to research and network, yet you find yourself here, and only here. You are a stone-cold hypocrite. You have done no research, other than this site. Please, by all means, provide me with your "other side". Let me rephrase: You don't know s**t about this company, so please, for your own good, f--- off.

James, I will first start off saying that I have actually found some use out of this site because it gives me insight to other companies and possible issues they may have. I originally thought the site itself was for people to complain but have now changed my opinion, for most of the searches anyway. If you were to select another company and look at some of the letters they too have terrible stories to tell. They are all very informative and for the most part, worth investigating, as I mentioned in a previous entry. Your rebuttal made me get online and contradict myself. I said I would not be coming back, I did. I implore you to read over my letter once again and then read your last comment. Youll find a few contradictions on your part. I am sure you and anyone else reading this will see how truly foolish and immature you must be? If someone had a bad experience there is no excuse for that, no issue here. It's not good to lie, cheat and steal. Don't blame others or lash out onto others if youre too ignorant to know where to go to find out information on a company. I probably have more resources than the average entry level person out there. If you think this site is the only resource out there for information, wow, but then again after reading you rebuttals, it doesnt surprise me. I was always taught to research and network, you might want to try that. So don't assume what you don't know. Trust me, you sound very upset and angry, too angry if you ask me. This site seems like a great place to state your peace and move on so that others may take that information and act on it if they so choose. Dont get me wrong, I feel people should continue to express their opinions and share them. If it is presented in a professional way I may take your advice. If it is presented in a very juvenile way I will choose not to take it. That is my opinion and we are all entitled to that. My excuse as to why I am writing here is I wanted to respond to a confused person looking for advice on what to do with all this information. My excuse now in writing is you! You sound just like the people you are bashing, unprofessional. I think my overall advice was to call the company you were interviewing with and confront them with your concerns. Overall, make your decision based on your own facts. I would be a fool to assume your view was the only one, there are always 2 sides to anything. Did I offend you with that or was it the fact that my comment about the type of complaining on this site was immature hit too close to home with you? By the way, my excuse for being on this site at first was to check it out for the same reasons we all went to this site for our first time. The difference is I am not looking for a job but have been looking for a client. I do although take any information for what it is, someone else's opinion. I appreciate yours; I just disagree with your style.

Mike, I appreciate your tact in defending yourself and you company. Its something that is rarely exhibited by your colleagues and business partners on this site, so let me start by saying thank-you. But I have to say that I disagree with your assesment of what is appropriate as far as disclosure is concerned. For one, DS-Max distributors are hired as "Independant Contractors". This terminology likens them more to being business partners than employees. This entitles them to knowing pretty much every apsect of the business that they will be "partners" in. Aside from that, if a manager/owner in an MLM uses his own salary as a selling point in his/her pitch (mine did, and I'm not the only one), then it is in no way out of line to ask for proof, and they should have it. I'm sure you can see the logics and ethics to this. I never said I wanted a bad picture painted of what was going on. I simply asked for the truth. You know and I know that the truth in this case DOES paint a bad picture and that is unfortunate for you. Its even more unfortunate for all the potential and current distributors that DS-Max is also well aware of this. It is precisely for this reason alone that all DS-Max companies discourage "negatives". Most companies value feedback, positive and negative. They strive to be better by reacting to the good and the bad. If DS-Max applied this approach it would fail to exist. You said it yourself when talking about salary disclosure: "...ranges from 350 to 550 a week, I dont know anyone successful that doesn't make that money." How many successful people are in your office? You ONLY provide an average of the minority of successful people without considering the fact that the person sitting in front of you probably won't be successful. You don't care if you are wasting their time. If they sell a few things, they haven't wasted yours. A few more points: Many companies advertise with the word "commission". And "atmosphere" at other companies doesn't mean sticking around every day after work to BS about how good your job is, or how well you did it. If it does, its certainly not mandatory. GREGG from Chicago: Thank you for your worthless contribution. You know very little, if anyting at all, about DS-Max since there is no real research you can do aside from this site. So why would you come to your only source of information for DS-Max and immediately try to discount it when you admit to knowing nothing about the company? You said this site is for people with complaints, and implied that it is a waste of time. But you posted a response without even having a complaint, what's your excuse? Now let me give you some advise: In the future, if you feel "compelled" to reply to something please make sure you have at least a shaving of a clue as to what you are talking about.

Well first off, I was good, I was making money, but me being an individual who loves to learn and wanted to know more about the history of the office I was working for I got petty and simple answers. How do the people just play you like you are stupid? My leader had 12 people under him and plaques in the office and he just told me that he fired them because they weren't doing there job good enough. I wanted to know how the office has been there for 2 years and the same 3 leaders are in the office and the same two owners are there if everything is so great with DS-Max. Why do these guys have plaques on the wall from 2001 and they don't own there own office yet. It's not because of they don't know what there doing. They know the marketing system back and forth and can teach it in there sleep. So what's going on. What is the truth? How come you can't get to the DS-Max.com website. What does this have to do with marketing? Its door to door sales. Why try to throw a sheet over my eyes, I'm not stupid. The only stupid thing I did was taking a job with DS-Max instead of getting a better job. I'll admit it was the money that got me and kept me there. I rang the gong continuously, but I could not work for a company that lies to you day in and day out and never gives you a straight answer, Never reimburses you for gas, Has you work in a hurricane, and then criticizes you when you have to take a day off. I think DS-Max and Bull Marketing in Raleigh, NC is Bullsh*t. So holla back, One

How many rip offreports have you been looking at? Have you tried under cydcor and ds-max and ds max? Look up wolfram's list of deceptions on the net. You will find a comprehensive explanation on ds-max, cydcor and granton marketing. The ds-max cydcor group is composed of 1,000's of independantly owned companies. These companies are in theory their own busines, but in reality they are controlled by ds-max and cydcor. Having a loosely nit organization, that is tightly controlled, keeps the powers that be from liability. Good luck in your search. Hope you got some insight from the editors bbb explantion.

I find myself reading these letters as many I am sure have in the past few months. This is my first time visiting this site and I felt compelled to give my 2 cents. I am an outsider to the companies in question but know a bit about them as I have done some research on many outsourced sales companies. I have been in sales and sales management for many years and have hired my share of entry level and experienced sales executives. My company has been looking to outsource part of our sales force. I am concerned when I read things like this. In every company and its only been 3 over 20+ years, the reps that can't get the job done occasionally feel compelled to push the blame on others for their failures. This sure looks like a couple of reps lashing out because they did not succeed? If they did succeed and they left on their own and have legitimate issues or problems, still, shame on them for attempting to disparage their company's client in the way they have. I know there are many bad apples everywhere and I also know I found a couple of them in my research that I would not want representing my company. If you worked for such a company, I am sorry for your pain. I can tell you I hire people who can add value to my company. These letters don't add any value as far as I can see. I actually decided to write in to hopefully clear up the last inquiry about the better business bureau question. I understand the "owners" are independent from DS-Max and Granton and are contracted. My only real advice is to make your own decisions based on real information. Call the owner of the company whose ad you saw and tell them your issues and concerns to see how they respond. I see this site overall as a place for people to complain. I don't think I will be back as I have more to do with my time. I feel as if I have already wasted your time as well as mine. I felt compelled to reply to your letter because I too read the obnoxious letters written by what seems some very immature individuals prior to yours. To the folks heading up the bashing; you seem like very angry people. I hope it doesn't last your whole life as you may miss out on some really good times. Let it go.

The reason there are positive ratings with the better business bureau is that the companies that cydcor offices represent are often pleased with the results these offices produce. Its the expendable people who work for the cydcor offices that get screwed over. There is such a high turnover rate in these offices that they just keep churning out five new sales reps for every one they lose, but they lose them so rapidly that in my old office in Phila. we went through like 60 people in 5 months with the avg. size of the office staying at around 12 people. That's alot of people to lose in such a short period of time. All throughout those months though, the level of productivity stayed about the same. So the company we were representing didn't give a s**t who was selling their product, just that is was being sold. These offices are filled with lies, corruption, and harmful tactics that ruin the lives of good honest people. I have worked for more than a year in two different offices in Boston and Phila. and I have seen many many more in action...they are all the same. Stay away from all Cydcor related offices, you will be much better off!!

I found this site after researching a company who's name I found on Monster. And if these allegations are true, I'm glad I found this before an interview. I also looked at the Better Business Bureau site and found nothing negative about the company I saw listed, or about other Cydcor companies listed, although there were not many. So I assume that these problems are more employee based than customer based. Please respond to why there are not complaints or why there are positive ratings for these companies on the Better Business Bureau site. Thank you very much for your responses, and for the information I've seen thus far.

I found this site after researching a company who's name I found on Monster. And if these allegations are true, I'm glad I found this before an interview. I also looked at the Better Business Bureau site and found nothing negative about the company I saw listed, or about other Cydcor companies listed, although there were not many. So I assume that these problems are more employee based than customer based. Please respond to why there are not complaints or why there are positive ratings for these companies on the Better Business Bureau site. Thank you very much for your responses, and for the information I've seen thus far.

I tend to read your reports alot. You are generally make alot of sense and have some valid arguments. Although I disagree with your assessment of dsmax as a whole, I do think you are correct about some managers. But the company has changed alot since you interviewd or worked there. I am writing because I disagree with the disclosures you say are necessary up front in order for a company to be honest. First of all I know that nearly all managers now tell interviews that payment is merit based and ranges from 350 to 550 a week, I dont know anyone successful that doesn't make that money. If you cant you quit, no big deal, its not for you. The big problem I have with your report is that you want us managers to paint a bad picture of whats going on. Honestly, no company that pays commission will tell a prospective employee they make commission. They all say merit based, paid training, competitive pay. Are all commission companies ripoffs? I dont think so. As far as atmosphere, every business has it. I think if in any interview a person asked any mgr of any co. if it is ok to be negative, or not positive they would not get a call back. No Person In any Business that wants to be Successful wants negative people. In any interview anyone goes on that should be assumed. As far as showing a person what I make on paper, I they ask, I will tell or show. But ind dist or not no interviewing mgr would hire someone so bold as to ask the mgr what they make. I make good money, as alot of other managers of alot of other businesses in any field. Basically James. I assume you are an intelligent person. You probably have not worked for a dsmax company for a good two or three years. So I must conclude that you have a JOB or a CAREER. When you left DS max and interviewd other places you might have asked what your potential income was but, you did not ask the mgr how much they made, if negatives are forbidden, how many locations to the exact number they have, etc. All companies that NEED ppl to work for them, which include the countries biggest retail, resteraunt, and insurance chains as well as a plethora of other compaines try to make their opportunities sound good. I could paint any situation bad or any situation good, No matter what, winning the lottery could be painted bad, and cleaning toilets could be painted good. A company is not dishonest for painting what they do as good. In addition, some of your points for honest companies would make 90 percent of the companies in the US bad. I am not willing to believe or buy into that.

Let me get this straight. You graduate from college and are told by someone who never finished college (and toils away in an MLM scheme) that your education was a waste? And you bought it? Well, she was probably right then. Now you and your girlfriend live with your bosses? Wow! Thats terrific! How's it feel knowing that your boss, what you aspire to become, needs your supplemental rent money to pay the bills? Good luck though, you are going to need it.

I've been working for her for 1 and a half months and I used to live in Toronto, but I was looking for a job and saw a great opportunity. She said that since I was a hard worker, I was promoted to leader in 5 days. Since it's so far, she's put me and my girlfriend Crystal up in an apartment with her and her boyfriend. My girlfriend used to have a dead-end job working as a receptionist, but it was a go-nowhere job. She worked 10 to 6 and she was in the same position for two years. I just graduated college and Roxanna has told me that while an education is good, my arts degree is useless and I really thank her for this opportunity. Us four always go out drinking every night, doing stuff, its so great. We love DS-Max, Granton and Cydocor. JUICE!!!!! My girlfriend and I are coming to a town near you soon and you guys will soon see the awesome opportunity. Roxanna, ignore all this people, they're just cows who don't know how to seize an opportunity.

I've been working for her for 1 and a half months and I used to live in Toronto, but I was looking for a job and saw a great opportunity. She said that since I was a hard worker, I was promoted to leader in 5 days. Since it's so far, she's put me and my girlfriend Crystal up in an apartment with her and her boyfriend. My girlfriend used to have a dead-end job working as a receptionist, but it was a go-nowhere job. She worked 10 to 6 and she was in the same position for two years. I just graduated college and Roxanna has told me that while an education is good, my arts degree is useless and I really thank her for this opportunity. Us four always go out drinking every night, doing stuff, its so great. We love DS-Max, Granton and Cydocor. JUICE!!!!! My girlfriend and I are coming to a town near you soon and you guys will soon see the awesome opportunity. Roxanna, ignore all this people, they're just cows who don't know how to seize an opportunity.

I've been working for her for 1 and a half months and I used to live in Toronto, but I was looking for a job and saw a great opportunity. She said that since I was a hard worker, I was promoted to leader in 5 days. Since it's so far, she's put me and my girlfriend Crystal up in an apartment with her and her boyfriend. My girlfriend used to have a dead-end job working as a receptionist, but it was a go-nowhere job. She worked 10 to 6 and she was in the same position for two years. I just graduated college and Roxanna has told me that while an education is good, my arts degree is useless and I really thank her for this opportunity. Us four always go out drinking every night, doing stuff, its so great. We love DS-Max, Granton and Cydocor. JUICE!!!!! My girlfriend and I are coming to a town near you soon and you guys will soon see the awesome opportunity. Roxanna, ignore all this people, they're just cows who don't know how to seize an opportunity.

I've been working for her for 1 and a half months and I used to live in Toronto, but I was looking for a job and saw a great opportunity. She said that since I was a hard worker, I was promoted to leader in 5 days. Since it's so far, she's put me and my girlfriend Crystal up in an apartment with her and her boyfriend. My girlfriend used to have a dead-end job working as a receptionist, but it was a go-nowhere job. She worked 10 to 6 and she was in the same position for two years. I just graduated college and Roxanna has told me that while an education is good, my arts degree is useless and I really thank her for this opportunity. Us four always go out drinking every night, doing stuff, its so great. We love DS-Max, Granton and Cydocor. JUICE!!!!! My girlfriend and I are coming to a town near you soon and you guys will soon see the awesome opportunity. Roxanna, ignore all this people, they're just cows who don't know how to seize an opportunity.

Sorry Roxanna. But I worked for you for 3 months, 1 month before you became owner and 2 months after. You said you would pay for our rent, but on weeks that I do bad, you not pay. you ask me to pay. that's not very fair. You're a liar and i hope you rot for the skum u are. You used to be so nice when I met you, now ur just a pig and i'm glad i'm not working for u anymore because i don't want to turn in to what you've become. take a good look at yourself Roxanna.

Sorry Roxanna. But I worked for you for 3 months, 1 month before you became owner and 2 months after. You said you would pay for our rent, but on weeks that I do bad, you not pay. you ask me to pay. that's not very fair. You're a liar and i hope you rot for the skum u are. You used to be so nice when I met you, now ur just a pig and i'm glad i'm not working for u anymore because i don't want to turn in to what you've become. take a good look at yourself Roxanna.

Sorry Roxanna. But I worked for you for 3 months, 1 month before you became owner and 2 months after. You said you would pay for our rent, but on weeks that I do bad, you not pay. you ask me to pay. that's not very fair. You're a liar and i hope you rot for the skum u are. You used to be so nice when I met you, now ur just a pig and i'm glad i'm not working for u anymore because i don't want to turn in to what you've become. take a good look at yourself Roxanna.

Sorry Roxanna. But I worked for you for 3 months, 1 month before you became owner and 2 months after. You said you would pay for our rent, but on weeks that I do bad, you not pay. you ask me to pay. that's not very fair. You're a liar and i hope you rot for the skum u are. You used to be so nice when I met you, now ur just a pig and i'm glad i'm not working for u anymore because i don't want to turn in to what you've become. take a good look at yourself Roxanna.

You run an honest office? If you are willing to invite us to check out your office to see how honest it is, then why don't you tell us right here how you operate? It would benefit more people, don't you think? And perhaps it could motivate other owners to follow your lead. So why don't you answer the following questions for us: How do you advertise for positions? What words do you use? What do you tell people during an interview? How do you respond to the question, "What will I be doing here?" Do you have a day of observation? Do you tell the interviewee that they will spend nine hours for their day of observation - eight of which are spent walking door-to-door? Do you answer compensation questions honestly? Can you provide an honest average profit for your distributors? What is that figure and how is it compiled? Do you tell the interviewee what you make? If so, are you willing to show proof? Do you claim that DS-Max has a certain number of offices? What is that number? Where does it come from? Are you willing to discuss your turnover rate? Would you be able to compare it to an advancement rate? Do you have "atmosphere"? Are negative's forbidden? Finally, answer this: Since you opened your doors, how many people have accepted the offer after their day of observation and worked for at least a week (include your crew that you brought with you)? Of that number, how many became leaders? a*s. Managers? Owners? Of those promotions, how many went on re-train? Since the interviewee is a potential "independant distributor" they should be provided with whatever information they feel they need to make a decision. Don't just tell us you are honest, prove it. For all I know your idea of honesty could be wildly skewed. The manner in which you answer the questions I asked will be a clear indicator of whether or not you are as honest as you'd like us to beleive. If you refuse to answer, then we'll just have to assume that you apply the same dishonesty, brainwashing tactics, and irresponsibility to your business as does every other DS-Max office. Good luck.

I could have said "DS-Max supplied offices" but there's no need to get technical. So my main point is that we run a very honest office, never lie to any of our distributors and try to get them to be successful. We don't force anyone to do anything they don't want to. I don't understand why you are all so willing to take out anybody that is supplied by DS-Max, Granton or Cydcor as these offices are run by different people. We are willing to admit that there are owners with hidden agendas and that they are truly dispicable, but to slander an office that has nothing to do with them is wrong. It's like one Tim Hortons run by an owner who doesn't follow company guidelines, has employees that don't wash their hands and makes 100 people sick from his food and cheap spending ways. Does that mean the entire Tim Hortons chain is bad? No. Its just one bad owner. If you really think OUR(not other) office is run poorly, I advise you to check it out and see how well run it is, bearing in mind that you don't vandalize or try to ruin our office because vengence is never the answer. Two wrongs don't make a right. If your office did anything illegal, you should report it to the Better Business Bureau and if they did anything illegal, then you should prosecute them or do a civil suit. But I advise you, if somehow someway, any of you come into my office, and tell false lies about my company, I will take civil action.

I am an ex-employee, everything that needs to be said has been, and everything that has been said that is derogatory about DS-MAX is 100% true. I just really thought it was funny that this was how Roxanna ended her post... "So please, if you have nothing better to do, get a job and i don't care if its a mcdonalds job or a CEO job, just go get one and stop discrediting companies that you know nothing about. Yes u know a lot about YOUR Ds-max office, but you know nothing about ours. Just as I won't say anyhting about your company because I know nothing about it. Roxanna - Hamilton, Ontario Canada" Wait Roxanna, I thought you have no affiliation with Ds-Max! But you just called it "YOUR DS-MAX OFFICE!" Get the lies straight girl! You are not tricking any of us here, we all worked for these con artists too, and had con artist owners like you. If you make it that far in this company, it means one thing for sure, YOU HAVE TOLD MORE LIES IN THE PAST FEW YEARS THEN YOU CAN EVEN REMEMBER. Your life has become on big lie. You lie to your family, friends, and employees. The company is being held together by a combination of lies and denial. Kool-aid by that!

Actually, what we've done to make it a bit more fair for our leaders, is that if new reps are not able to make the minimum, we pay half of the difference and the leader pays half of the difference. As for background checks, since this is a commisioned job it is not fair to ask them to go and get one done. They are a bit costly too with all the interviewees we have. We look at resumes mostly. Example: If a guy has worked from Jan to April 2000 and then didn't work again till 2002, with a new job and doesn't have an education, it is something suspicious. We also REQUIRE references as well. We don't lie and want to run a reputable company. The only thing that we do somewhat similar to our old office is that all our leaders have 10 hour shifts but distributors it is completely optional. And we don't say that "if you want get ahead" crap to anyone. You should know that we actually don't have any affiliation with DS-Max, Granton, or Cydcor, but rather are our suppliers and that's it. So please, if you have nothing better to do, get a job and i don't care if its a mcdonalds job or a CEO job, just go get one and stop discrediting companies that you know nothing about. Yes u know a lot about YOUR Ds-max office, but you know nothing about ours. Just as I won't say anyhting about your company because I know nothing about it.

As the author of the original post, I just want to thank you for giving me credibility. I was worried there for a minute that we would not get to witness item #3 on my list, but you came through in a big way. I particularly liked when you said, "...just because they are somehow someway affiliated with another company". So that is how you would define your day-to-day operations with DS-Max, as a "somehow someway affiliation"? That's really funny. Is that the same "somehow someway affiliation" that a McDonalds franchise has with McDonalds? If you didn't operate in the same basic and shameful ways as other DS-Max offices, you wouldn't be a DS-Max office. - Point #3 proven. I also liked the bit about not hiring people that you "...suspect of crimes." What does that mean? You obviously don't do background checks, so what sorts of things raise suspicion for you regarding a potential distributor? Hair style? Posture? Resume? With "dead giveaways" like these who needs a background check? You must have great success weeding out the criminals and scumbags. LOL. Now what is really touching is that you inform your potential distributor that they will get a guaranteed salary for the first two weeks. How big of you! What would really be great is if you told them whose pocket that money comes out of. And how that potential distributor will be expected to pay out the guarantee when they get to leadership. But we can't expect too much now, can we. As for the caliber of people on dsmaxtheaftermath.com - they left the company, so they are one step ahead of you. So what if they spend a few minutes a day or week bashing DS-Max? At least they have the free time to do it. Its not as if they have to prioritize their lives around a rigorous schedule of pre-work and post-work denial sessions (aka atmosphere). And its not really a bad thing that some of them would love to damage the company that has destroyed and continues to destroy countless lives. But you wouldn't know about the lies and deceit stuff, would you? I mean, your organization is comprised of people hand-picked by you according to your very rigid standards and thorough selection process, which is why you can confidentally say that you never lie to your customers or days of O, right? Anyway, the sole purpose of dsmaxtheaftermath.com is not to destroy the company. More than anything else, it is a place for recovery. So don't try to knock it too much, because someday, when you are through with the lying, brainwashing and irresponsibility, you're gonna be glad its there for you. Thanks again for proving me right, James BTW - Juice makes your body fat, and Rhino's are just as likely to flee as they are to charge when disturbed.

Because SOMEONE should let others know what a terrible thing your organized MLM cult is doing to people! Check my full discription of it out on the aftermath! I tell it all like it is!

I apologize that you guys have had a bad experience with DS-Max, Cydcor or Granton, but by no means have we sold our souls. You should not be grouping people into a category just because they are somehow someway affiliated with another company. That's prejudice and you should give everyone a chance. Per se, if you had a second cousin's relative's uncle's daughter's third cousin was a cheating s**t, does that mean you're just as bad? NO! Now if you guys actually enjoyed your DS-Max, Cydcor or Granton experience and were making money, I don't know why you left. I have seen the DSMaxtheAftermath website and it appalls me that these people keep on complaining about a bad experience, especially those who want to dedicate their life to destroying a company? Doesn't that just say something about the quality of some of the people on that site? However, since we have read the website, I see that the quality of some Ds-Max hirees are not of top calibre and of sane mind, and that is why we conduct interviews professionally and we do not hire anyone who we suspect of crimes. As for selling our souls, I don't know where you get that from. We never lie to the customers, or our days of O. We always tell them the truth and in the 1st interview, we ask them: this is a commission job, with a weekly guarantee for the first 2 weeks, pending you last that long. From then on, it is commission and see if they can accept that. By the way, what we meant by sacrifices is giving up a few months to start up a business and get it running smoothly. It's our own business and can do what we feel. Thank you and Juice. Sorry, if we like to use other people's words, what a crime. (sarcasm)

James, LOL, don't worry, you certainly aren't the only disgruntled ex~employee and you don't have to look very far to find that out. There are rip~off reports about this company under 6 DIFFERENT names and new ones seem to pop up every day. Not only that but, how many other jobs have their own website dedicated strickly to the healing process people need after they've left the scam like B.S. Max has? As far as not being able to handle the hard work, from what I've read, most people quit because they get tired of being dishonest, broke plus in debt, etc. Also, hard work is one thing but how does coming to work at 7 for a job that doesn't begin until at least 9 and then standing around for another hour after work, all unpaid of course, constitute hard work? Of course she didn't mention that the reason her and her boyfriend are just sitting in their office relaxing is because it's 10:00 p.m. and they're too tired to move because they've been there since 6:00 a.m.! Oh yeah, I forgot, her boyfriend and her worked hard for only four short months and the rest of us ex~maxers know that that must mean they never have to work again and they'll still have their own office, lol. Also, since it's your own business, how many names did you go through before they approved one. When I got my business, I didn't have to get permission from anyone as to what it could be called, or who I could have for an accountant, attorney, etc.! As for those "few" sacrifices you refered to, I'm sure you meant that tiny thing called selling your soul! I hope it's worth it! Oh yeah, and you're not brainwashed. I'm sure none of us have ever heard the word's and phrases you used like, "So I still have one year left to go in university, who gives a s**t? I can go back and finish it anytime I want, neg balls and double juice!" Jeremy, I'm glad your girl showed you how to make an honest living. Could you please let me know what that is because we all know you can't be talking about B.S. Max? Honest is a contridiction of terms when refering to the scam! I'm also glad that you have friends in the scam to make up for your own friends and family which I can bet you no longer have time for. As far as making the six~figure income, {which the rest of us know equals a four figure, or even worse income after expenses,} when you yourselves figure that out, just take comfort in knowing that us disgruntled exes are very forgiving and you'll be welcome to come to our website and we'll be happy to help you through your healing process.

You poor poor soul. You could not have sex on a job interview and that was a sacrifice for you. I want you to be sure to continue to have fun: Lying to people: Not telling new applicants exactly what is up for a "day of observation" Making people broke: By getting them in to a cult sweatshop sales culture where they are commission only, coercerced to pay new employees out of their own pocket and not reimbursed for any travel expenses. I do not want to knock commision work here - it can pay big! But these aren't big commissions, most have never been on commission before and reps can go on slumps. Cheating customers: many campaigns end up not being honored and many reps end up cheating to make a fast back - because there is no screening. I can go on and on...

I'm sorry James, but you should like a disgruntled ex-employee who couldn't handle a few months of hard work. My boyfriend and I are just sitting in our office relaxing because we worked hard for 4 months and have become owners in that short period of time. We're on our way to making a six figure incomes, sure there's gonna have to be a few sacrifices, but its the name of the game. It's the business world. Granton has taught me that anyone can succeed and its not education that really matters, but how you apply the skills you already have. They are so right. So I still have one year left to go in university, who gives a s**t? I can go back and finish it anytime I want. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I have my boyfriend here to share it with me. Here I'll let him type now: James, you poor poor soul. You didn't give the company a chance. Heck, Roxanna had to take me on a day of O and we had to be serious, no making out or anything, and I at first was like "honey, your brainwashed". But that is far from the truth. She showed me how to make an honest living and why the system worked. Granton is something I've always been looking for a company, friends within the company that are like family, and tons of fun as well. We are so lucky as to provide others with this opportunity too. So go ahead and be neg balls. Double Juice.