Complaint Review: DS-Max - North miami Beach Florida

everything everyone is saying is true. they have been screwing people over for years. Colossus marketing in memphis and mmx in louisville are the same way. these reports are all over the net. do your research.

Every thing AS (may I call you AS, Adam) reports is the absolute TRUTH. Just about half of what Paul G. (oops, I mean Paul in Anaheim) posts is a shady form of the truth (note the small 't' in truth) as a dyed in the wool former Ads VP would spin it. For anyone considering any of the many evil incarnations of DS-Max, be it Innovage, Cydcor, etc., be aware of the principle of the Have vs. the Have Nots. The national leaders (or whatever they are known today as), VPs, or what not are the Haves; and they are a very small number. There is no middle ground, even among Indpendent (Ha!) owners. I can post here under AS's guidelines for credibility. I was an Owner (Ha Ha) in the Clearance Division in Jacksonville, FL; ostensibly a promotion of Anthony S. in Miami Beach. The real puppet master was Dave Keenan; Anthony couldn't wipe his butt without Dave handing him the toilet paper; he was controlled that closely. Way too close for a supposedly Indpendent Owner. I knew AS personnally. I associated with both AS and his brother RS on a daily basis. I was IN on the scam promises that I was forced to shovel on the "Independent Distributors" every day. If you detected doubt about the "System" from any distributor you were taught to immediately intervene and sheild everyone else from the "negative attitude" that just might prove the system didn't work. Oh yes, I learned how to dodge direct questions just like Paul has exhibited in his prior postings. AS would ask a direct question, only to see Paul's totally off target rebuttal. No matter how many times AS redirected his VERY specific questions, Paul would reply with a barrage of information that would try to trick any people checking out the thread into not considering the questions that AS posed Paul. It is just a typical tactic of the business. So, if anyone bothers to check the rest of the R.O.R. for DS-Max (and its descendants) take to heart the compelling revelations of those that lost their souls, their money, and most importantly their self respect by jumping into a business relationship with these unethical bottom feeders.

I also made money.....alot of it!!!! and had as many as 6 outside deals. For you to even think that you can respond to these entries is a joke!!! It wasnt the money and it wasnt until I decided to "partner" with Dave Keenan that my real probnlems started. You come here and say your "honest now",what a joke. Go sell that B.S. somewhere else. The whole "good owner,bad owner" thing cracks me up still "you,you...BAD OWNER"...p.s. $400.00 canadian,or U.S.

If your not making money quit I've been in the biz for a few years now and ive always made money... did you forget that its a commission job? If you preform you get paid... ppl think its a ripoff cause they suck at it... im not gonna lie to you, you can insult me all you want, but i barely finished high school, and didnt have a lot of options for my career, but im making good money now, and my people are too. The best part is that we really dont lie to anyone, maybe years ago we did, but im pretty honest with my guys. If you dont make 400/wk at least ill recomend that you leave, please dont associate bad owners with honest ones. thanks ps... we have a lot of fun with what we do... to make 400/wk and have fun doing it, well thats a pretty good business thanks again

I WAS DOWN IN MIAMI WITH AARON HENDERSON SAME TIME AND SAW THE SAME THING AGAIN WITH MARK GILLOOLY UP IN RI ITS THE WAY OF THE BUSINESS ONLY THING I CAN SAY POSITIVE IS IM A LOT SMARTER AND NEVER JUMPING INTO SOMETHING LIKE DSMAX AGAIN

This fraud has a million different names. Many of them have something to do with marketing. But, they all work the same. The put an ad in the paper or on an internet job site. It offers a marketing position. Once you get to the interview, they deceive you into coming back another day. Next thing you know, they send you out on the street to hustle small trash items door-to-door. Primarily to businesses. You walk up and down the street for 8 hours selling steak knife sets. They have another scam where they push phone services. Now, nobody else is going to be stupid enough to spend 12 years there. But, it's possible they could fool you into wasting a day or two. It's best if you can spot this fraud right over the telephone. That way, you don't waste any gas by driving over there for nothing. Search google for: An detailed explanation of Ds-max, Cydcor and Granton Marketing Use that exact phrase, in quotation marks. I realize the AN is wrong. You have to understand, a dsmax ex-employee wrote the title. They're not the smartest people. So, search for the phrase exactly as I have it spelled. That's how google indexes it. Then, click on each of these 13 entries, starting from the top. 1.OVERVIEW OF DSMAX, CYDCOR, GRANTON MARKETING, AND MORE 2.THE MARKETING SYSTEM 3.ATMOSPHERE AND PSYCHOLOGY 4.PHRASES/TERMINOLOGY 5.THE MEETING 6.THE OPPORTUNITY 7.NEW LOCATIONS 8.HOW AN OFFICE WORKS 9.EMPLOYMENT ADS AND FIRST INTERVIEWS 10.DAY OF OBESERVATION AND BUILDING A CREW 11.THE HISTORY -- AS IT WAS EXPLAINED 12.HEAD OFFICE, LEADER MEETINGS, HUBS AND VPS 13.THE BELIEF SYSTEM AND LIFE This is interesting reading because this former employee understands the business a lot better than the man who posted the complaint above. Even though the author makes it perfectly clear from his spelling and grammar that he isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, he still is able to relate enough of the day-to-day workings for someone to gain a comprehensive understanding of the background psychological aspects behind the whole brainwashing process they use. I recommend you check it out if you or any member of your family plans to do any job searching in the future. Oh, it also explains this whole juice thing that this poster kept talking about. I kept wondering what the hell he meant. It turns out that juice is the official chant of this cult. You can see that even after this poster left the cult, or was thrown out, he still continues to sing the songs and use the chant words every time he speaks. Go to the article. Read for yourself exactly how easy it is to control the minds of simpletons.

Adam, Paul is right in everything he said. What is wrong with you? Do you have a brain? If you do, can you use it? You sound so stupid when you talk and write. Go to school. DS Max and the others like our con jobs. In fact, Granton Marketing is the fraud. Adam, I am so suprised you know how to use a computer after reading your idiotic garbage.

Paul, I am officially bored with you. You have proven with each entry that not only do you little or no clue as to what you're talking about with regards to my involvementin this bus. but you cant read or you have a retention problem. im sure you'll respond with one of your diatribes (are you stealing those from a Dennis Miller novel?)Anyway if for no other reason then retaliation you want to respond go for it truck driver man.

Paul, I am officially bored with you. You have proven with each entry that not only do you little or no clue as to what you're talking about with regards to my involvementin this bus. but you cant read or you have a retention problem. im sure you'll respond with one of your diatribes (are you stealing those from a Dennis Miller novel?)Anyway if for no other reason then retaliation you want to respond go for it truck driver man.

Don't be ridiculous. I would never work for this max thing. Or any of the other companies that peddle junk door-to-door. I'll explain why in a minute. First, let me show you how I nailed the exact product. It's not hard, because all these door-to-door outfits peddle the same trash. I get my mail at a private mailbox. It's a business, with 500 mailboxes on the wall. A little girl sorts the mail out and puts it in the individual boxes. Sometimes, I'll sit down and talk with her for a while. One day, a guy comes in wearing a backpack. He's carrying all kinds of junk. He comes up and makes his pitch. I got these steak knife sets here. We're letting them go for just $5 a set. Here, take a look. Now the knives were probably worth a lousy $5. Obviously, they were made in China. But, they would cut meat. The problem is that nobody needs them. Most people already have steak knives. But, the guy had other stuff too. Duffel bags. Shot glasses. He had an onyx chess set. It was all cheap. Five dollars. Maybe fifteen bucks for the chess set. I see this same thing a lot here. Is it the max? Who knows? Who cares, really? The point is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of companies that peddle junk door-to-door. Once they find a product that sells well, they all jump on it. You may have thought your max was the only one. You really need to get out more. There are tons of companies all doing the same thing as you did. And, it's all the same trash. Steak knives. Barbecue sets. Pen and pencil sets. Little gift trash. The kind of stuff that Wal-mart sells for between $3 and $20. The reason I would never work there is simple. No money. That's what I tried telling you a week ago. These max companies have 3 levels. First, there are the worker bees. The kids who actually carry the trash door-to-door. They make $20 to $30 a day. Tops. Some of them do it because they like to hustle others. They kid themselves into thinking they actually have a sales career. Some of them do it because there are no other jobs for them. Next up is the guys like you. The owners. Actually, guys like you never own s**t. The company tells you what to sell. They tell you how to sell. And, how much to charge. You're a yes boy. They only need you to keep a steady supply of worker bees around. And, to keep the worker bees in line. That's your job. Here's how you get paid. They tell you that you will get commission based on what and how much is sold. When you first come up as an owner, they keep you in ether. They talk this big money nonsense. Ten, fifteen thousand a month. But, it never happens. Each month, there is always something. Kickbacks. Chargebacks. Dings. Call it what you want. They always find a reason to take your money. Now, I'm going to tell you a little secret that you never knew. You were on salary the whole time. That's right. No commission like you thought. Straight salary. You will never get more than $800 to $1000 a month. No matter how much you sold. No matter how great a month you had. Here's how they get the number. Just enough to keep you fed and alive. That's it. No luxuries. No extras. No ups. About $200 to $250 a week. Just enough for food and gas. Let's look at the last level, shall we? They're the real owners. There are probably 5 guys that handle the whole max nationwide. They watch over you owner boys. They collect the money. They handle the products. They give you your instructions. The guys at the top are the only ones with the money. They keep everything for themselves. They give you worker bees just enough to continue living. It's like a slave in a galley ship. They need you to row the boat, so they can't let you die. But, they d**n well ain't going to feed you well or take care of you. You would eat the snouts and the tails. They would eat the steak. You see, that's why I laugh. You come here and talk your big nonsense about milking people like a cow. But, the whole time, the max was using you like a galley slave. They had you chained to an oar. They fed you just enough scraps to survive. And, you never figured it out. You still didn't know a week ago when you came here. I'm setting you straight right now. You're getting the real truth for the first time in 12 years. You will never get any more than a few scraps at the max. The owners will never share any of the wealth with you. Don't be ridiculous, you foolish little boy. You were nothing to those people! A worker bee. So when you came here bawling about h*o savings dinged for outside promos debts, then you were wronged I just had to laugh at you. You weren't wronged, fool! Wake up. That's business as usual. They would never let you succeed. Oh, you could do plenty of successful marketing. No problem there. They just would never pay you. Never had any intention of giving you more than table scraps. Just enough to keep you alive and chained to the oar. So, you see Adam, you may come here and talk tough all you like. But, everybody can see that you're a victim. A galley slave chained to an oar for 12 years. Always hoping for a better month. But, it never happened. That's why I would never work there. There is only one way to make money at the max. You show up for your first day of door-to-door. You collect as much junk as you can. You convince the owner that you are a go-getter. You load as much trash as you can into your car trunk. Then, you drive away and hustle it off. Blow it all out for whatever you can get. At the end of the day, you fold the bills up and stick them in your wallet. A hundred, maybe $150. Not bad for one day's work, really. That would be my big max career. A hundred bucks for one day's work. I'd be the one eating the steak that night, thanks to the max. By the way, I've been coming here and reading these stories for about a year now. No job anymore. I used to be a long haul truck driver. That's another s**t job. Look up trucking companies in the search at the top. Read what I wrote. That all happened a long time before you came here talking about the max. While you were working for chump change, I was steering a semi across interstate 80. Here's my last tip, champ. Don't be inviting any of the people above you to dinner. They're not your friends. All of them used you like a w***e. Now that you are middle-aged, they threw you the hell out and let you swim for shore. Nice people, huh? You were a victim. The top people at the max used you for 12 years. Twelve years of your life, down the drain. Nothing to show for all those deals and all that hard work. It's a shame you didn't open your eyes and see any of this years ago. But, you know now. Personally, I still don't understand what in the hell ever kept you there. I guess I never will. We are two different people entirely. I never would never have made it to an owner. I would have made all my money on day one, and then left. Never to return. Here's the best advice I can give you. There are a thousand other job frauds out there. All of them say the same crap. Incredibly strong position. Positive cash flow. Giant opportunity. It's all the same crap. They dangle a carrot on a stick and keep you working for them. You need to spot these cons and avoid any more of them. You see, after 12 wasted years, you're bound to be a little desperate. So, you grab the first thing that sounds great and hope it will make up for all that lost time. But, chances are it will be just be another fraud. All of these big-money, easy-work, no-skill-needed opportunities are. Nobody's handing away easy money. But, they let you think they are so that they can work you to death. Stay the hell away from easy-money cons. And, get some education the first chance you get. That's the only real chance anyone has in this world. Good luck!

Don't be ridiculous. I would never work for this max thing. Or any of the other companies that peddle junk door-to-door. I'll explain why in a minute. First, let me show you how I nailed the exact product. It's not hard, because all these door-to-door outfits peddle the same trash. I get my mail at a private mailbox. It's a business, with 500 mailboxes on the wall. A little girl sorts the mail out and puts it in the individual boxes. Sometimes, I'll sit down and talk with her for a while. One day, a guy comes in wearing a backpack. He's carrying all kinds of junk. He comes up and makes his pitch. I got these steak knife sets here. We're letting them go for just $5 a set. Here, take a look. Now the knives were probably worth a lousy $5. Obviously, they were made in China. But, they would cut meat. The problem is that nobody needs them. Most people already have steak knives. But, the guy had other stuff too. Duffel bags. Shot glasses. He had an onyx chess set. It was all cheap. Five dollars. Maybe fifteen bucks for the chess set. I see this same thing a lot here. Is it the max? Who knows? Who cares, really? The point is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of companies that peddle junk door-to-door. Once they find a product that sells well, they all jump on it. You may have thought your max was the only one. You really need to get out more. There are tons of companies all doing the same thing as you did. And, it's all the same trash. Steak knives. Barbecue sets. Pen and pencil sets. Little gift trash. The kind of stuff that Wal-mart sells for between $3 and $20. The reason I would never work there is simple. No money. That's what I tried telling you a week ago. These max companies have 3 levels. First, there are the worker bees. The kids who actually carry the trash door-to-door. They make $20 to $30 a day. Tops. Some of them do it because they like to hustle others. They kid themselves into thinking they actually have a sales career. Some of them do it because there are no other jobs for them. Next up is the guys like you. The owners. Actually, guys like you never own s**t. The company tells you what to sell. They tell you how to sell. And, how much to charge. You're a yes boy. They only need you to keep a steady supply of worker bees around. And, to keep the worker bees in line. That's your job. Here's how you get paid. They tell you that you will get commission based on what and how much is sold. When you first come up as an owner, they keep you in ether. They talk this big money nonsense. Ten, fifteen thousand a month. But, it never happens. Each month, there is always something. Kickbacks. Chargebacks. Dings. Call it what you want. They always find a reason to take your money. Now, I'm going to tell you a little secret that you never knew. You were on salary the whole time. That's right. No commission like you thought. Straight salary. You will never get more than $800 to $1000 a month. No matter how much you sold. No matter how great a month you had. Here's how they get the number. Just enough to keep you fed and alive. That's it. No luxuries. No extras. No ups. About $200 to $250 a week. Just enough for food and gas. Let's look at the last level, shall we? They're the real owners. There are probably 5 guys that handle the whole max nationwide. They watch over you owner boys. They collect the money. They handle the products. They give you your instructions. The guys at the top are the only ones with the money. They keep everything for themselves. They give you worker bees just enough to continue living. It's like a slave in a galley ship. They need you to row the boat, so they can't let you die. But, they d**n well ain't going to feed you well or take care of you. You would eat the snouts and the tails. They would eat the steak. You see, that's why I laugh. You come here and talk your big nonsense about milking people like a cow. But, the whole time, the max was using you like a galley slave. They had you chained to an oar. They fed you just enough scraps to survive. And, you never figured it out. You still didn't know a week ago when you came here. I'm setting you straight right now. You're getting the real truth for the first time in 12 years. You will never get any more than a few scraps at the max. The owners will never share any of the wealth with you. Don't be ridiculous, you foolish little boy. You were nothing to those people! A worker bee. So when you came here bawling about h*o savings dinged for outside promos debts, then you were wronged I just had to laugh at you. You weren't wronged, fool! Wake up. That's business as usual. They would never let you succeed. Oh, you could do plenty of successful marketing. No problem there. They just would never pay you. Never had any intention of giving you more than table scraps. Just enough to keep you alive and chained to the oar. So, you see Adam, you may come here and talk tough all you like. But, everybody can see that you're a victim. A galley slave chained to an oar for 12 years. Always hoping for a better month. But, it never happened. That's why I would never work there. There is only one way to make money at the max. You show up for your first day of door-to-door. You collect as much junk as you can. You convince the owner that you are a go-getter. You load as much trash as you can into your car trunk. Then, you drive away and hustle it off. Blow it all out for whatever you can get. At the end of the day, you fold the bills up and stick them in your wallet. A hundred, maybe $150. Not bad for one day's work, really. That would be my big max career. A hundred bucks for one day's work. I'd be the one eating the steak that night, thanks to the max. By the way, I've been coming here and reading these stories for about a year now. No job anymore. I used to be a long haul truck driver. That's another s**t job. Look up trucking companies in the search at the top. Read what I wrote. That all happened a long time before you came here talking about the max. While you were working for chump change, I was steering a semi across interstate 80. Here's my last tip, champ. Don't be inviting any of the people above you to dinner. They're not your friends. All of them used you like a w***e. Now that you are middle-aged, they threw you the hell out and let you swim for shore. Nice people, huh? You were a victim. The top people at the max used you for 12 years. Twelve years of your life, down the drain. Nothing to show for all those deals and all that hard work. It's a shame you didn't open your eyes and see any of this years ago. But, you know now. Personally, I still don't understand what in the hell ever kept you there. I guess I never will. We are two different people entirely. I never would never have made it to an owner. I would have made all my money on day one, and then left. Never to return. Here's the best advice I can give you. There are a thousand other job frauds out there. All of them say the same crap. Incredibly strong position. Positive cash flow. Giant opportunity. It's all the same crap. They dangle a carrot on a stick and keep you working for them. You need to spot these cons and avoid any more of them. You see, after 12 wasted years, you're bound to be a little desperate. So, you grab the first thing that sounds great and hope it will make up for all that lost time. But, chances are it will be just be another fraud. All of these big-money, easy-work, no-skill-needed opportunities are. Nobody's handing away easy money. But, they let you think they are so that they can work you to death. Stay the hell away from easy-money cons. And, get some education the first chance you get. That's the only real chance anyone has in this world. Good luck!

Don't be ridiculous. I would never work for this max thing. Or any of the other companies that peddle junk door-to-door. I'll explain why in a minute. First, let me show you how I nailed the exact product. It's not hard, because all these door-to-door outfits peddle the same trash. I get my mail at a private mailbox. It's a business, with 500 mailboxes on the wall. A little girl sorts the mail out and puts it in the individual boxes. Sometimes, I'll sit down and talk with her for a while. One day, a guy comes in wearing a backpack. He's carrying all kinds of junk. He comes up and makes his pitch. I got these steak knife sets here. We're letting them go for just $5 a set. Here, take a look. Now the knives were probably worth a lousy $5. Obviously, they were made in China. But, they would cut meat. The problem is that nobody needs them. Most people already have steak knives. But, the guy had other stuff too. Duffel bags. Shot glasses. He had an onyx chess set. It was all cheap. Five dollars. Maybe fifteen bucks for the chess set. I see this same thing a lot here. Is it the max? Who knows? Who cares, really? The point is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of companies that peddle junk door-to-door. Once they find a product that sells well, they all jump on it. You may have thought your max was the only one. You really need to get out more. There are tons of companies all doing the same thing as you did. And, it's all the same trash. Steak knives. Barbecue sets. Pen and pencil sets. Little gift trash. The kind of stuff that Wal-mart sells for between $3 and $20. The reason I would never work there is simple. No money. That's what I tried telling you a week ago. These max companies have 3 levels. First, there are the worker bees. The kids who actually carry the trash door-to-door. They make $20 to $30 a day. Tops. Some of them do it because they like to hustle others. They kid themselves into thinking they actually have a sales career. Some of them do it because there are no other jobs for them. Next up is the guys like you. The owners. Actually, guys like you never own s**t. The company tells you what to sell. They tell you how to sell. And, how much to charge. You're a yes boy. They only need you to keep a steady supply of worker bees around. And, to keep the worker bees in line. That's your job. Here's how you get paid. They tell you that you will get commission based on what and how much is sold. When you first come up as an owner, they keep you in ether. They talk this big money nonsense. Ten, fifteen thousand a month. But, it never happens. Each month, there is always something. Kickbacks. Chargebacks. Dings. Call it what you want. They always find a reason to take your money. Now, I'm going to tell you a little secret that you never knew. You were on salary the whole time. That's right. No commission like you thought. Straight salary. You will never get more than $800 to $1000 a month. No matter how much you sold. No matter how great a month you had. Here's how they get the number. Just enough to keep you fed and alive. That's it. No luxuries. No extras. No ups. About $200 to $250 a week. Just enough for food and gas. Let's look at the last level, shall we? They're the real owners. There are probably 5 guys that handle the whole max nationwide. They watch over you owner boys. They collect the money. They handle the products. They give you your instructions. The guys at the top are the only ones with the money. They keep everything for themselves. They give you worker bees just enough to continue living. It's like a slave in a galley ship. They need you to row the boat, so they can't let you die. But, they d**n well ain't going to feed you well or take care of you. You would eat the snouts and the tails. They would eat the steak. You see, that's why I laugh. You come here and talk your big nonsense about milking people like a cow. But, the whole time, the max was using you like a galley slave. They had you chained to an oar. They fed you just enough scraps to survive. And, you never figured it out. You still didn't know a week ago when you came here. I'm setting you straight right now. You're getting the real truth for the first time in 12 years. You will never get any more than a few scraps at the max. The owners will never share any of the wealth with you. Don't be ridiculous, you foolish little boy. You were nothing to those people! A worker bee. So when you came here bawling about h*o savings dinged for outside promos debts, then you were wronged I just had to laugh at you. You weren't wronged, fool! Wake up. That's business as usual. They would never let you succeed. Oh, you could do plenty of successful marketing. No problem there. They just would never pay you. Never had any intention of giving you more than table scraps. Just enough to keep you alive and chained to the oar. So, you see Adam, you may come here and talk tough all you like. But, everybody can see that you're a victim. A galley slave chained to an oar for 12 years. Always hoping for a better month. But, it never happened. That's why I would never work there. There is only one way to make money at the max. You show up for your first day of door-to-door. You collect as much junk as you can. You convince the owner that you are a go-getter. You load as much trash as you can into your car trunk. Then, you drive away and hustle it off. Blow it all out for whatever you can get. At the end of the day, you fold the bills up and stick them in your wallet. A hundred, maybe $150. Not bad for one day's work, really. That would be my big max career. A hundred bucks for one day's work. I'd be the one eating the steak that night, thanks to the max. By the way, I've been coming here and reading these stories for about a year now. No job anymore. I used to be a long haul truck driver. That's another s**t job. Look up trucking companies in the search at the top. Read what I wrote. That all happened a long time before you came here talking about the max. While you were working for chump change, I was steering a semi across interstate 80. Here's my last tip, champ. Don't be inviting any of the people above you to dinner. They're not your friends. All of them used you like a w***e. Now that you are middle-aged, they threw you the hell out and let you swim for shore. Nice people, huh? You were a victim. The top people at the max used you for 12 years. Twelve years of your life, down the drain. Nothing to show for all those deals and all that hard work. It's a shame you didn't open your eyes and see any of this years ago. But, you know now. Personally, I still don't understand what in the hell ever kept you there. I guess I never will. We are two different people entirely. I never would never have made it to an owner. I would have made all my money on day one, and then left. Never to return. Here's the best advice I can give you. There are a thousand other job frauds out there. All of them say the same crap. Incredibly strong position. Positive cash flow. Giant opportunity. It's all the same crap. They dangle a carrot on a stick and keep you working for them. You need to spot these cons and avoid any more of them. You see, after 12 wasted years, you're bound to be a little desperate. So, you grab the first thing that sounds great and hope it will make up for all that lost time. But, chances are it will be just be another fraud. All of these big-money, easy-work, no-skill-needed opportunities are. Nobody's handing away easy money. But, they let you think they are so that they can work you to death. Stay the hell away from easy-money cons. And, get some education the first chance you get. That's the only real chance anyone has in this world. Good luck!

Don't be ridiculous. I would never work for this max thing. Or any of the other companies that peddle junk door-to-door. I'll explain why in a minute. First, let me show you how I nailed the exact product. It's not hard, because all these door-to-door outfits peddle the same trash. I get my mail at a private mailbox. It's a business, with 500 mailboxes on the wall. A little girl sorts the mail out and puts it in the individual boxes. Sometimes, I'll sit down and talk with her for a while. One day, a guy comes in wearing a backpack. He's carrying all kinds of junk. He comes up and makes his pitch. I got these steak knife sets here. We're letting them go for just $5 a set. Here, take a look. Now the knives were probably worth a lousy $5. Obviously, they were made in China. But, they would cut meat. The problem is that nobody needs them. Most people already have steak knives. But, the guy had other stuff too. Duffel bags. Shot glasses. He had an onyx chess set. It was all cheap. Five dollars. Maybe fifteen bucks for the chess set. I see this same thing a lot here. Is it the max? Who knows? Who cares, really? The point is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of companies that peddle junk door-to-door. Once they find a product that sells well, they all jump on it. You may have thought your max was the only one. You really need to get out more. There are tons of companies all doing the same thing as you did. And, it's all the same trash. Steak knives. Barbecue sets. Pen and pencil sets. Little gift trash. The kind of stuff that Wal-mart sells for between $3 and $20. The reason I would never work there is simple. No money. That's what I tried telling you a week ago. These max companies have 3 levels. First, there are the worker bees. The kids who actually carry the trash door-to-door. They make $20 to $30 a day. Tops. Some of them do it because they like to hustle others. They kid themselves into thinking they actually have a sales career. Some of them do it because there are no other jobs for them. Next up is the guys like you. The owners. Actually, guys like you never own s**t. The company tells you what to sell. They tell you how to sell. And, how much to charge. You're a yes boy. They only need you to keep a steady supply of worker bees around. And, to keep the worker bees in line. That's your job. Here's how you get paid. They tell you that you will get commission based on what and how much is sold. When you first come up as an owner, they keep you in ether. They talk this big money nonsense. Ten, fifteen thousand a month. But, it never happens. Each month, there is always something. Kickbacks. Chargebacks. Dings. Call it what you want. They always find a reason to take your money. Now, I'm going to tell you a little secret that you never knew. You were on salary the whole time. That's right. No commission like you thought. Straight salary. You will never get more than $800 to $1000 a month. No matter how much you sold. No matter how great a month you had. Here's how they get the number. Just enough to keep you fed and alive. That's it. No luxuries. No extras. No ups. About $200 to $250 a week. Just enough for food and gas. Let's look at the last level, shall we? They're the real owners. There are probably 5 guys that handle the whole max nationwide. They watch over you owner boys. They collect the money. They handle the products. They give you your instructions. The guys at the top are the only ones with the money. They keep everything for themselves. They give you worker bees just enough to continue living. It's like a slave in a galley ship. They need you to row the boat, so they can't let you die. But, they d**n well ain't going to feed you well or take care of you. You would eat the snouts and the tails. They would eat the steak. You see, that's why I laugh. You come here and talk your big nonsense about milking people like a cow. But, the whole time, the max was using you like a galley slave. They had you chained to an oar. They fed you just enough scraps to survive. And, you never figured it out. You still didn't know a week ago when you came here. I'm setting you straight right now. You're getting the real truth for the first time in 12 years. You will never get any more than a few scraps at the max. The owners will never share any of the wealth with you. Don't be ridiculous, you foolish little boy. You were nothing to those people! A worker bee. So when you came here bawling about h*o savings dinged for outside promos debts, then you were wronged I just had to laugh at you. You weren't wronged, fool! Wake up. That's business as usual. They would never let you succeed. Oh, you could do plenty of successful marketing. No problem there. They just would never pay you. Never had any intention of giving you more than table scraps. Just enough to keep you alive and chained to the oar. So, you see Adam, you may come here and talk tough all you like. But, everybody can see that you're a victim. A galley slave chained to an oar for 12 years. Always hoping for a better month. But, it never happened. That's why I would never work there. There is only one way to make money at the max. You show up for your first day of door-to-door. You collect as much junk as you can. You convince the owner that you are a go-getter. You load as much trash as you can into your car trunk. Then, you drive away and hustle it off. Blow it all out for whatever you can get. At the end of the day, you fold the bills up and stick them in your wallet. A hundred, maybe $150. Not bad for one day's work, really. That would be my big max career. A hundred bucks for one day's work. I'd be the one eating the steak that night, thanks to the max. By the way, I've been coming here and reading these stories for about a year now. No job anymore. I used to be a long haul truck driver. That's another s**t job. Look up trucking companies in the search at the top. Read what I wrote. That all happened a long time before you came here talking about the max. While you were working for chump change, I was steering a semi across interstate 80. Here's my last tip, champ. Don't be inviting any of the people above you to dinner. They're not your friends. All of them used you like a w***e. Now that you are middle-aged, they threw you the hell out and let you swim for shore. Nice people, huh? You were a victim. The top people at the max used you for 12 years. Twelve years of your life, down the drain. Nothing to show for all those deals and all that hard work. It's a shame you didn't open your eyes and see any of this years ago. But, you know now. Personally, I still don't understand what in the hell ever kept you there. I guess I never will. We are two different people entirely. I never would never have made it to an owner. I would have made all my money on day one, and then left. Never to return. Here's the best advice I can give you. There are a thousand other job frauds out there. All of them say the same crap. Incredibly strong position. Positive cash flow. Giant opportunity. It's all the same crap. They dangle a carrot on a stick and keep you working for them. You need to spot these cons and avoid any more of them. You see, after 12 wasted years, you're bound to be a little desperate. So, you grab the first thing that sounds great and hope it will make up for all that lost time. But, chances are it will be just be another fraud. All of these big-money, easy-work, no-skill-needed opportunities are. Nobody's handing away easy money. But, they let you think they are so that they can work you to death. Stay the hell away from easy-money cons. And, get some education the first chance you get. That's the only real chance anyone has in this world. Good luck!

Why is it you seem to know what division I was in, what I sold (steak knives). The only paul that I know who would take this approach is Paul G. I would like to point out to you that there are more entries to this site made by the Communication and Advertising divisions victims....... isnt that your department..... you hypocritical spineless gimmel. I would also like to point out that your rebuttals are written in the same condecsending tones to wich you are infamous for. I understand now why you keep responding....this is personal to you isnt it? You were and still are the most arrogant schmuck in the co., and make no mistake P A U L- ads., communication, "steak knives", its all the same company. Your approach is clever.As far as you pretending to know me, my "buttons"......dont flatter yourself....I know who you are. Shame,shame,SHAME ON YOU PAUL. If you are ever in Atlanta for a christmas party, leaders meeting or to just throw some person under the bus look me up, Id like to have you over

Yes, you may have been able to get by with a 6th grade education when you were selling cheap steak knives door to door. That doesn't take any real intelligence. But, in the real world, you will need an education if you expect to get a job that pays more than minimum wage. The best place to start is by getting your GED. After that, find the time to fit in night classes at a local junior college. Along the way, you need to learn how to spell better. For example, Paul the herpe soar. The correct way to spell that is sore. Soar is something birds and airplanes do. A herpes outbreak is spelled sore. And herpes always has an S on the end of it. You see, spell check won't work on things like that. I could point out a dozen more mistakes, but you get the point. You're a grown-up now. You need to start writing and acting like one. That means filling out a job application legibly and spelling all the words correctly. Otherwise, they laugh at you and only offer you a position as janitor or stock boy. Another thing. Stop living in your fantasy world. I know they told you to fake it until you make it. But, in the real world, you can't fake money that you don't actually have. That means forget about telling everyone that you're in this incredibly strong situation. Maybe you mean you have to be incredibly strong to lift all those boxes of canned goods onto the shelf. I don't know. But, don't waste time here trying to convince anyone that you're making big money. There's no way you'll ever make over $10 an hour unless you first get more education. That's common sense. Same way with the "I lost more money then you've ever seen". That's definitely not something you want to brag about. Losing a lot of money makes you look like a complete idiot. Some people lose a few bucks here and there, but if you keep right on losing your whole life, something is definitely wrong. Oh, and you spelled something wrong there too. It should be money THAN, not then. People see that on job applications and know you're a dropout. One last thing. You should learn to get control of yourself better. For example, I come here and tell you how bad it looks to waste 12 years of your life. So, what do you do? Get all mad like a little kid who can't control his emotions. You can't let people push your buttons like that. You need to remain in control, or else people will lead you around like a bull with a ring in its nose. See how easy it is to get you all upset? Don't let that happen. Brush it off. That's what I do. For example, you call me a herpe soar. Do I get upset about that? Of course not! Hell, you can't even spell it right. Besides, I don't have herpes, so it doesn't matter one little bit to me. In fact, it amuses me a little when I see how easy it is to push your buttons. You bend over and let others milked you like a cow. You see, I can let people say what they want here. That's because I have inner confidence. I don't need to convince you or anyone else that I'm in this incredibly strong situation. You need to develop that same confidence. Then, you won't get all upset when someone pokes fun at you. Now that you're out of the max and back in the real world, you need to make up for all that time you spent chasing your tail around in circles. It will be a little harder for you because you're not a kid anymore, but it's still possible to catch up and make a decent career for yourself. I've seen men older than you who left factory jobs and had to go out and retrain for something they never did before. As long as you're alive and able to learn, you always have a chance to improve. Education and knowledge are the keys to success. And, no matter how hard you try, you just can't fake either of them.

Paul,youve made it crystal clear that you are an idiot, who still hasnt answered the question, but at this point it doesnt even matter. Ive tried to take a humble approach to your comments but its obvious that you need to have things explained to you much the same way my three yr.old twins do.If you have taken any of this as a hope for an invite back then I have 100% validation when I say "your points are unintelligible, pompous, and because you dont know-or at least pretend to not know anything about this company-IGNORANT as well. For you to try and debate this issue with me....well Ill just say this, you are out of your league. I am making this determination based on your rediculous rebuttals. I can and will continue to come to this site and speak my mind when I want...and the things I say will continue to give people information they'll use in making decisions regarding there involvement with this company. Like I said "I lost more money then youve ever seen" and it will prob. chap your a*s to know that Im in an incredibly strong situation. ((REACTED PHONE NUMBER OF AUTHOR)) You just dont seem that intelligent to me.....poor guy.........P.S. If you go to DS Max the aftermath you can access my info and send me an email direct.

I'm sure you came here with the intention of having all your max buddies see what you wrote and maybe invite you back. I guess that's why you only wanted other people from the company to read your comment. Actually, it's hard to figure out what in the hell you're talking about. You ramble on. First, you claim you're a failure. Then, you want other max people to invite you back. I realize you spent the last 12 years peddling junk door to door. So, let me explain how this site works. People come here and warn others about fraud. After people read how you lost everything with this ridiculous company, they will be sure to avoid it. That way, nobody will end up wasting their life like you did. You have to understand, nobody else does what you did. So, of course, people will wonder why in the hell anybody would stay with something that was a failure for 12 years. Most of the people here wise up right away. It doesn't take them 12 years. The main thing people are thinking is what is wrong with this guy? Why did he waste all this time? Because, let's face it, nobody here wants to end up in the position you're in. One other thing. What's with the juice thing? First you want juice. Now, you don't? This is what I mean. It's hard to follow what you're talking about. Either way, it doesn't matter. People will see your three little words: walked away broke. That says it all. No winners there at the max. You know, filing this complaint was probably the most successful thing you've done in the last 12 years.

Paul, you assume to know that "Im mad at the world"....its now apparent to me you are a failed zealot of some sort and to think that YOU could offer me or anybody for that matter any advise of any value is truly an insult....You play dumb with regard to DS Max yet you offer advise on the Company, and all the while you still have'nt explained yourself as to why you chose this Co's. complaints to write about...nobody asked for your advise and nobody wants your advise. So go away Paul-mad or not_- just go, go , go away. I have done great after the fact and Ive prob. LOST more money then your sorry a*s has ever made. .....NO JUICE BY YOU

But, in this case, there is nothing I can say to prevent the Adams of the world from wasting their time with this nonsense. These loser companies exist only as long as people are willing to work them. Next month, there will be 5 more Adams coming here and complaining they spent years of their life and have nothing to show for it. The only good thing I can see is that new recruits will come here and see what they stumbled into. The winners will get out right then and there. The losers will go back and stick with it because it's the best thing that life has to offer them. Adam, it's good you came here and filed a complaint. But, like I said before the winners will know it's a fraud on their first paycheck. More likely, on their first day going door to door selling the trash of the day. I can certainly understand why you're mad at the world. You claim that you spent 12 years of your life and ended up with nothing to show for it. That's the best possible thing you could say to prevent others from following in your shoes.

Paul, Paul, Paul. PAUL, You should join if your not already with them....you seem to be really good at dodging bullets so Ill ask you again...what are you even doing here...I mean you've never experienced it so why....why... WHY are you here!!!.If you choose to respond to this I really hope you can answer that, if not then go save someone else. There are between 80-100 entries for this company, Im responsible for 4 you do the math. I, having spent time with this company am justified being here but you, you preach your cause alot like the guy I was and the people I surrounded myself with....oh, and by the way I did well with this company for the majority of the time I was with them but my last move turned out to be the wrong one. In response to your " kick everybodys a*s " philosophy I can just say that there are almost 100 submissions for this company and all are relative yet there is no mention of this practice and Im sure that if it were apppropriate there would be a lot less RIP OFF REPORTS.........You T W I T...you say you win at everything you do because YOU research it. Just so Im clear about this...are you bragging? The people who are here took an uncalculated risk and got way more then they bargained for. Truth be told , if I had had you in my office I prob. could have milked you like a cow because you seem to have the type of personality we thrive on. Like I said Paul baby, walk a mile then come and talk to me. Once again, Adam

In the beginning, I'll agree with you. They used fraud to recruit you. And, they used more lies to get you to stay. But after it became clear that the whole thing just wasn't working, then you began to cheat yourself. At that point, you made a decision as to whether to stay and to continue or to give up and leave. I'm sure you are smart enough to realize everything I said before about leaving. You weren't trapped in the business. You were free to leave anytime. However you DECIDED to stay, probably because you figured this was the best you could ever do in life. If you had a better opportunity, you would have been gone in a heartbeat. But, there was nothing else. The max thing was it. Even a sinking ship is better than swimming around in the ocean when your 1500 miles from land. So, you stuck with it. Most people do this exact same thing. In jobs and in relationships. I agree, this company is a rip-off and a waste of time. But, I'm more concerned about what keeps people coming back day after day once they see that. That's the illogical part.

In the beginning, I'll agree with you. They used fraud to recruit you. And, they used more lies to get you to stay. But after it became clear that the whole thing just wasn't working, then you began to cheat yourself. At that point, you made a decision as to whether to stay and to continue or to give up and leave. I'm sure you are smart enough to realize everything I said before about leaving. You weren't trapped in the business. You were free to leave anytime. However you DECIDED to stay, probably because you figured this was the best you could ever do in life. If you had a better opportunity, you would have been gone in a heartbeat. But, there was nothing else. The max thing was it. Even a sinking ship is better than swimming around in the ocean when your 1500 miles from land. So, you stuck with it. Most people do this exact same thing. In jobs and in relationships. I agree, this company is a rip-off and a waste of time. But, I'm more concerned about what keeps people coming back day after day once they see that. That's the illogical part.

In the beginning, I'll agree with you. They used fraud to recruit you. And, they used more lies to get you to stay. But after it became clear that the whole thing just wasn't working, then you began to cheat yourself. At that point, you made a decision as to whether to stay and to continue or to give up and leave. I'm sure you are smart enough to realize everything I said before about leaving. You weren't trapped in the business. You were free to leave anytime. However you DECIDED to stay, probably because you figured this was the best you could ever do in life. If you had a better opportunity, you would have been gone in a heartbeat. But, there was nothing else. The max thing was it. Even a sinking ship is better than swimming around in the ocean when your 1500 miles from land. So, you stuck with it. Most people do this exact same thing. In jobs and in relationships. I agree, this company is a rip-off and a waste of time. But, I'm more concerned about what keeps people coming back day after day once they see that. That's the illogical part.

In the beginning, I'll agree with you. They used fraud to recruit you. And, they used more lies to get you to stay. But after it became clear that the whole thing just wasn't working, then you began to cheat yourself. At that point, you made a decision as to whether to stay and to continue or to give up and leave. I'm sure you are smart enough to realize everything I said before about leaving. You weren't trapped in the business. You were free to leave anytime. However you DECIDED to stay, probably because you figured this was the best you could ever do in life. If you had a better opportunity, you would have been gone in a heartbeat. But, there was nothing else. The max thing was it. Even a sinking ship is better than swimming around in the ocean when your 1500 miles from land. So, you stuck with it. Most people do this exact same thing. In jobs and in relationships. I agree, this company is a rip-off and a waste of time. But, I'm more concerned about what keeps people coming back day after day once they see that. That's the illogical part.

Paul, Paul, Paul, So you say you've never been part of this company, so, let me ask you this, what are you doing in this site? This is a site designed to display any negative feedback or complaints people have with businesses. I just figured everybody would be able to deduce that by the name.. RIP OFF REPORT...seems I was wrong. I think the web site you're looking for is REPORTS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE RIP OFF REPORTS....you twit!!! If you have no experience with this company then DO NOT insult me or anybody else here by offering "PAULS TIPS TO REBOUNDING". As for Candice the "secretary"...let me rehash, she called me ,so I had no problem making her realize ...if but for a second that she too was full of s**t. It sounds to me Paul like your feathers are a little ruffled which leads me to believe that you are not some guy who said "I have nothing better to do so I'm gonna vist the R.R and, at random, give my two cents. " To me, you sound like someone defending there post-which means your lying too........ thank you for making my point so colorfuly........"Juice"

Adam, here's what you did wrong: Don't depend on the owner. Don't borrow money from him, because you'll never be able to pay it back. Instead, say dude, this ain't working here. No money. No sales. I'm outta here. Lotsa luck. Peace out. If you're in a business that's tough to ever get ahead, that's means it's not working. Face up to it. Move on. If you have little of no control of your business, then it's not really your business. Somebody else is running it. You're just the one who stands around watching them call the shots. Savings not in your control? Asking permission? Ridiculous! I'd kick somebody's a*s and take my money back. Better yet, it would never end up in someone else's pocket in the first place. Ever heard of the word NO? If Keenan ran your phone up, make him pay. Kick his a*s. What's the matter with you? Plus, if somebody else was causing the failures, stop listening to them. Then, you call and hassle a secretary until she admits it's the same con. Why? You knew it was. Hang up. Move on. What could you possibly get from confirming it was another scam? Once you see there's nothing there, move on. I don't know what else to tell you here. We have nothing in common. I don't know what in the hell you could possibly be thinking. In five minutes, I could see this whole thing is a failure. At, five minutes and 30 seconds, I'd be starting my car and driving off, never to return. I always win at things. First, I pick something that makes sense. Hustling trash off door-to-door or whatever you do makes no sense. Then, when I see there's no money, I either stop or change strategies. If I can see something isn't working, what, am I gonna keep doing the same thing over and over like a dumbass? It sounds like this whole company is one big failure. No wonder they end up here time after time. You know, I seen people who stay stoned all day do better than this. All I can say is good luck in your next job. I wouldn't mention this who ds thing if I were you.

I wanted to add that I was notified by a company over a week ago that goes by the name of Global Expectations In Atlanta regarding a resume I had on the internet.The conversation seemed oddly familliar so I asked her directly "are you related in any way to Granton Mrktng." to which she said only "NO" I then said "what about DS Max or Cydcor",again the response was an exclusive "no". However, the whole tone of the conversation changed from an upbeat gal talking to a potential candidate to a brush-offish tone and a "ill give this info to my manager and someone will call you back".....well to say the least I never recieved my phone call so over a week later I called back and the same young lady answered.I asked her if she knew why I wasnt called and her response was "they must have elected to go with another candidate. I asked the young lady for an address and she got flustered and asked "why?".I responded that I didnt believe she was telling the truth about their affiliation with DS Max,Cydcor or Granton, to which she said.....uh...uh.... sir Im not a mngr I just set up the appointments, I then asked if the owner there was a promotion of Brad, who was an associate of mine ,she said "yes he is"......now the point to all this is this Granton and Cydcor think themselves above the divisions that piggy back DS Max thats why they never want to be corralled in the same pen as DS Max hence the use of Granton and Cydcor, now they arent even wanting to lay claim to the fact they are ..... Do your homework and the answers will be the same......Christ what was I thinking?????

This rebuttal is in response to the person who wrote "why stick around 12 yrs?)It is also a response to anyone who might ask the same questions. Yes i spent 12 yrs. affiliated to DS Max.No im not "slow" by any means but speaking from both sides- entry level and ownership-I can tell you that no matter what negatives you go through if an owner doesnt want you to leave, then through manipulation you wont. It has nothing to do with "threats or strong-arm" but I know that when people in this business get behind financially there dependency on the owner becomes greater and if this person is someone that theowner sees as a potentialpromotion then they take a limited vested interest in him/her by "helping" them out ,which just strengthens the dependency, this makes keeping that individual around that much easier not to mention that this poor sap is also developing a loyalty. My apologies in my last entry were to those people I had kept involved long after they should have gone. In any office you go into there isnt a distributor who has more reasons to quit then stay and it just takes one key person to walk out and that could cause a domino effect so we insulate the key people and the minute one of our less desiarable recruits cause a problem we blow them out....this instills to our people that "we dont need you" and if you happen to be a key person who finally says enough is enough then the process in which you leave is done strategically as to avoid the "he quit...im quitting too!" s****.. I never struggled with the sales to the point I couldnt make money its just that between paying retrains, gas, meals it was tough to ever get ahead. I, after a year with Ds Max was given the chance to run my own Distributorship and soon realized that Websters definition of Independently owned and DS Max definition were night and day. I had very little control of my business...money, spending,savings, I was always asking permission for something or I was being told what time my deposits had to be in by, if I wanted money from my savings I had to ask and was sometimes talksd out of taking it. I ended my career with DS Max working with Dave in MY office of all places.......... I QUIT AS AN OWNER MOSTLY BECAUSE DAVID KEENAN,A solid VP with DS Max drove me from that business. He occupied the nicest office in my location ran my phone bill up exponentially and recieved no expense, I was told what meetings to run who to praise, what ads to run,how to deal with people and many times embarassed in front of my guys yet when we lost money it was ALL my fault. Iaccept responsibility for mistakes I made but this guy turned out to be a pompous a*s....thats right I said pompous a*s who is now removed from wrecking carreers and spends his days in his little office in Boca or West Palm or where-ever . So, to Mr. rebuttal, I was there 12 years and while most of the people submitting reports were short timers I did ok in the start it was all of the mind torturing politics that went on as an owner. We were never given the choice about meetings or retreats...if you didnt go there was hell to pay, no this doesnt mean that you were terminated but if you went against the grain then the cheesiest of product was sent to you and I have no problem saying these things to anyone. There is somuch more to say and yes there are examples of people doing incredibly well but when compared to the stories like these on this site it doesnt weigh. Soifyoud like to debate this issue make sure you are or have been at least an owner. SDincerely

What is it about people that keeps them grinding away month after month for nothing? I mean, there's no actual money. From what I read here, you're lucky to afford cheeseburgers. So, what keeps people coming back for more of that? What is it? Promises? Someday, it will all be better? It that it? You will sleep in a car for a month, and make do with two cheeseburgers a day? All for what? Promises? Next month, the exact same thing. Nothing ever changes. This is the one thing I can't figure out. Why in the hell do people continue with something that clearly does not work? Never works. Not on day one. Not on your last day. You walked away broke. Twelve years of your life? Not a penny to show for it. The whole time, you were grasping at straws. I simply can't understand what would possibly keep a person coming back for that kind of failure day after day. You'd think after a couple of weeks they simply would smarten up and move on.

The lies and deceit start to consume you. I was promoted out of Anthony's office, with the blessing of Dave Keenan. That is where the support and advice ended. DS-Max (and its descendants; Innovage, Cydcor, etc.) defines the term moral cowardice and ethical vacuum. If you know anyone associated with this MLM scam, get them out as soon as possible. Don't wait for the personal, financial, and spiritual ruin that consumates the relationship with this true evil empire.