Aimee
Eugene,#2Consumer Comment
Wed, May 21, 2003
Yes, I have filed the lawsuit. Now we are researching all the other states where Lithia operates - and there is actually an employee plaintiff (former finance manager) here in Oregon that has filed a lawsuit against Lithia for asking him to falsify credit app's as well as add non-existent accessories to used cars in order to make sure that they would "book out" at inflated prices to the lender. I hope that anyone reading this with any information surrounding complaints/lawsuits involving Lithia will respond on to this report.
P
Oregon,#3Consumer Suggestion
Mon, May 19, 2003
Have you filed your lawsuit? You said you bought the car on July 6, 2002. Often times you have only one year to file a lawsuit.
Aimee
Eugene,#4Author of original report
Sun, May 11, 2003
Tammy, Thank you for your response to my report. I love the two car dealership employee responses as they confirm exactly what I'm saying: there is no such thing as a "certified" used vehicle, it is nothing but a profit boosting marketing hoax by the manufacturers and the dealers. I am hoping that you will call the lender that funded your van and ask for a copy of the contract as well as the Kelley Blue Book that Lithia submitted to the lender, as 1)the contract may have been altered by the dealership, and 2)there may be accessories added to the Blue Book that don't exist on your vehicle -- both would mean FRAUD, and a leg to stand on for you. I requested a public records search on Lithia in Oregon, (I am also doing the same in all states that Lithia operates in), and received a huge box full of complaints to the Attorney General -- think of how many other people that have been ripped off never complained -- Lithia is getting away with Fraud, etc., with nothing more than a slap on the hand from the state of Oregon. Also, check out the Portland Business Journal for info on an ex-Lithia employee that is suing for $4 million because he refused to take part in altering contracts, falsifying Blue Book, etc. Lithia is a publicly traded company, so even the SEC will eventually be interested in their "business tactics." To the Editor: This is a great website -- thank you for providing such a great forum!
Tammy
Springfield,#5Consumer Comment
Sat, May 10, 2003
I bought a used (1996) Dodge Grand Caravan ES at Lithia Dodge in July of 2000. I have had a similar experience. When we went to test drive the van we noticed the battery was dead. They said no big deal. That was the begining of a whole bucket of problems. We got their "Gold Warranty" because the van had less than 50,000 miles on it. Good thing because the van came back the very weekend we bought it when the battery would not hold a charge. The tail lights keep staying on, the air bag light would not go off, the windshield wipers keep coming on, and we have had 5 recalls so far this year. Lithia has been of no help. These car dealers are not as dumb as everyone wants to make them out to be. Slimy and low down, but not dumb. They were our best friends until we had a problem. Lithia is out to screw you on any make or model of vehicle. Watch out. Good luck Aimee. I hope you nail them to the wall.
Amy
Portland,#6UPDATE Employee
Fri, May 09, 2003
I have worked for a dealership for 4 years in the service department. This situation is one of the most common "complaints" that are lodged. A customer buys a used vehicle and then complains later that something has gone "wrong". Or that they have been intentionally ripped off! I agree whole-heartedly with Don from Kentucky. When you buy used expect used!! The dealership has absolutely no way to know what the previous owner did to the vehicle or what they did not do (maintenance). When the dealership peforms the used vehicle inspection they check over all of the obvious things visible, drive the vehicle to make sure that there are no weird noises or any problems with safety issues etc.. but they cannot guess at what may go wrong after someone has purchased it. That is why they offer USED CAR warranties. As far as salesman being in the know about some kind of after market accessories that the previous owner has installed that is ludicris. They can only disclose things that they are aware of.. How many salesman do you know that are mechanically inclined?? Im sure its pretty limited. How many of them are at the factory where the vehicle is assembled?? would you be able to tell after market windows from original equipment?? My suggestion to you is cut your losses and move on.. Why prolong the "hurt" and "fear" for being stranded on the side of the road, or focus on the intimidation you felt at the dealership with all the "men", or the alleged "lies" that you were told when you bought the truck. Grow up and learn from your mistakes. You think you are the only one that has ever experienced being stranded on the side of the road?? Do you think that you are the only women that walks into a dealership and feels that you are the underdog because of being a woman?? Its the facts of life sister! You've already made your decision to never buy another Toyota, or buy from that dealership again, are you really going to gain anything from pursuing or antagonizing the situation?? Get a hobby.
The Great Thorn - Rip-off Report Consumer Advocate
Bayville,#7Consumer Suggestion
Tue, March 04, 2003
Aimee The problem is banks are not willing to except the fact that they are dealing with CAR DEALERS. Banks are regulated. They have guide lines that they must follow. Most bank employees have never sold cars before and they have no clue as to how dirty a car dealer and their TRAINED LOT SHARKS can be. Car dealers hire companies to come in and train their "Green Peas" on how to become "LOT SHARKS" Once a LOT SHARK gets a good grip of you, the car buyer, they will chew you to the bone! They do this because they have been programed to do just that. Their main goal is to squeeze all lookers until they "POP or DROP". Here would be a fast way to kill this so called "Powerbooking" Car buyer goes to dealer. Car buyer hooks up with "Trained Lot Shark" car buyer and Lot Shark find a car the buyer would like to take home. Car buyer and Trained Lot Shark and Sales manager all agree to the numbers. Car buyer is brought to the dealer's F&I department for the signing of the deceptive documentation. No bank should EVER approve car deal until bank calls car buyer at the buyer's home number and asks a few questions. Like "Hey Mr car buyer do you like the car? Hey Mr car buyer Can you tell me the list of options that your new car has on it? Did you have a trade? Did you put any money down when you bought this car, as in write the dealer a check or give them any cash? We must also not forget about the big scam of Trained Lot Sharks doing what is called Padding the buyer's income. To kill this deception. Bank employee asks the buyer to tell bank how much do you REALLY make on your job. What did you write on your credit application at the dealer when you filled it out about your income? Car dealers do this padding of the buyer's income to make everything look good to the bank. If a buyer has real good credit, say a Fair Isaac Score of 700 or better, most banks will not double check the buyer's income. As in a simple phone call! If the bank at this time finds that the sucky car dealer has lied to the bank, then Bank should decline the loan and report dirty dealer to that state's Banking commissioner's office. This will never happen because most banks love the big money in profitable car loans that car dealers send their way. Banks should also ask the buyer did you sign the contact first or did the dealer's F&I people have you sign second, under someone else? Car dealers like to make the buyer sometimes think they are the buyer, But the dealer will sometimes have the cosigner sign first. Now they are the buyer, and the buyer is now the cosigner. Car dealers want to get the consumer with the better credit rating to sign first. Even if the person with the better credit thinks they are cosigning. No car dealer ever wants the buyer and the bank to have a chat before the paper is hung. In other words, the bank has paid the dealer in full for the loan. Car dealers do not want the banks employees to slip up and tell the buyer this, Hey Mr car buyer I see that you agreed to an interest rate of 12%. We told the dealer that we would approve a loan for you at 7%. Now the buyer would know that the dealer's F&I people Ripped them OFF. This is called "Point Packing" So to you happy car buyers. If you signed a contract and you agreed to 12% don't think this is what the dealer got you approved for. They get you approved for the lowest rate and get you to agree to the highest rate. Then car dealer scoops the difference. Most all banks will let a car dealer do the above to you if you agreed and signed the dotted line. As far as I am concerned. No bank has the right to crybaby about car dealer deception of any kind, if they never call the buyer before approving the car loan.
Aimee
Eugene,#8Author of original report
Mon, March 03, 2003
I have now filed a fraud suit in this case. Since contacting auto lenders to inquire as to whether or not they have ever experienced a dealership adding non-existent options/accessories to a Kelley Blue Book when submitting a vehicle for financing, the response has been a resounding "YES." It is, in fact, so common, that there are names for it: Kinking, Stacking the Deck, or Powerbooking. One credit union lender told me that the joke among auto lenders is that "every car has premium wheels and tires..." The only way this fraud is usually discovered is if the vehicle is repossessed. This is when the lender becomes angry about it as the cost of the non-existent accessories/options will become their financial loss. If the vehicle is never repossed, you and I, the consumers, pay for the non-existent accessories/options without even knowing it. Remember, auto lenders will only finance the car at a certain amount and they base their decision on the KBB or other pricing sources. Moral to this part of the story: use your own financing, and check to make sure that the lender has the correct information for the KBB appraisal.
#90
Thu, January 02, 2003
Lithia added these non-existent options to the Kelley Blue Book submitted to Oregon Metro Credit Union:
Cruise Control
Tow package
Sliding Rear Window
Bed Liner
Premium Sound (according to KBB, this means something other than the manufacturer's system, i.e. Boze, etc.)
Premium Wheels - (we photographed the wheels - they are Toyota upgrade#1 according to the Tacoma brochure - painted steel, second to the cheapest factory standard and NOT premium according to KBB, I know because I emailed them and asked).
Oversize, off-road tires - the tires on the truck are P265/R70 Bridgestone tires - bigger than what comes standard, but not oversize off road - the credit union rep confronted them with all this and they intimidated him, telling him the wheels/tires are premium and that they would be happy to install the other options while he waited. He declined, but is now backpeddling on the credit union wanting to get involved.
All of these "options" total over $2000.00, pushing the vehicle into a higher approval bracket for financing. I must admit it's nice to finally have the lying worms flat out on this one, but I still have work to do with Toyota Motor Corp. regarding the certified-used nonsense -
#100
Thu, January 02, 2003
Lithia added these non-existent options to the Kelley Blue Book submitted to Oregon Metro Credit Union:
Cruise Control
Tow package
Sliding Rear Window
Bed Liner
Premium Sound (according to KBB, this means something other than the manufacturer's system, i.e. Boze, etc.)
Premium Wheels - (we photographed the wheels - they are Toyota upgrade#1 according to the Tacoma brochure - painted steel, second to the cheapest factory standard and NOT premium according to KBB, I know because I emailed them and asked).
Oversize, off-road tires - the tires on the truck are P265/R70 Bridgestone tires - bigger than what comes standard, but not oversize off road - the credit union rep confronted them with all this and they intimidated him, telling him the wheels/tires are premium and that they would be happy to install the other options while he waited. He declined, but is now backpeddling on the credit union wanting to get involved.
All of these "options" total over $2000.00, pushing the vehicle into a higher approval bracket for financing. I must admit it's nice to finally have the lying worms flat out on this one, but I still have work to do with Toyota Motor Corp. regarding the certified-used nonsense -
#110
Mon, December 30, 2002
Found out for sure, from another Toyota dealership, that the wheels on the truck in question are not "premium wheels," but in fact are steel styled wheels valued (new) at $350.00 total retail (280.00 invoice) - nowhere near the $800.00 claimed by the dealership. So these slimey little worms lied bald faced to the C.U. rep - not surprising. It does seem that this particular dealership is quite brazen when it comes to dishonesty -- I think that they believe they are untouchable.
The Toyota scheduled maintenance guide also states "non-genuine Toyota parts - and any damage or failures resulting from their use - are not covered by any Toyota Warranty." That sounds, to me, like the truck I purchased absolutely does not qualify as a "Certified Used Toyota" according TO Toyota, as the certified program sells cars based on the 128 point inspection (seems the dealership would notice aftermarket parts during this) and the "great" warranty coverage.
I encourage anyone experiencing any sort of problem with any dealership - especially Lithia owned - to ask the company that financed their used car for a copy of the original Kelley Blue Book that was submitted for financing as the equipment/options listed may differ from what is actually on the vehicle. I have a strong "gut" feeling that this particular company pads blue books as a norm and I think that they are feeling pretty untouchable. Everything I've experienced with this company is in violation of the Unfair Trade Practices Act and I believe that Toyota Corp is just as guilty as the dealership of these practices because so far, in this case, Toyota has taken no stand against the actions of this dealership.
#120
Fri, December 27, 2002
Yesterday I received a call from the Credit Union representative that financed the truck. It turns out that there are definitely "options" on the blue book that Litha submitted to the credit union when securing inital financing for the truck that do NOT exist on the truck: Premium wheels, rear sliding window, tow package (ya, right on a four cylinder engine), and bed liner.
The C.U. rep took the truck over to Lithia and they denied that the wheels weren't premium, and offered to put the non-existent options on the truck while he waited - he declined the offer, saying he would need to speak with me.
Then they said they would check blue book on the truck and offered to buy it for $21,000 (5,000 less than I paid (I know, I am a complete sucker). Again, the C.U. rep said he'd check with me.
I've turned in all info to the Oregon Atty General and will be forwarding the non-existent option info also. I believe, whether it's $2,000. or $800., it qualifies as flat out fraud. I also believe that any amount multiplied by the thousands (millions) of Lithia customers qualifies as big $$$$ fraud and a calculated, company objective to commit fraud.
No wonder Lithia is so profitable - I have a really strong feeling that if every transaction Lithia has been a part of were audited, non-existent options are probably the norm, not the exception. Toyota - stand behind your customers, not your dishonest dealerships.
#130
Fri, December 27, 2002
Yesterday I received a call from the Credit Union representative that financed the truck. It turns out that there are definitely "options" on the blue book that Litha submitted to the credit union when securing inital financing for the truck that do NOT exist on the truck: Premium wheels, rear sliding window, tow package (ya, right on a four cylinder engine), and bed liner. The C.U. rep took the truck over to Lithia and they denied that the wheels weren't premium, and offered to put the non-existent options on the truck while he waited - he declined the offer, saying he would need to speak with me. Then they said they would check blue book on the truck and offered to buy it for $21,000 (5,000 less than I paid (I know, I am a complete sucker). Again, the C.U. rep said he'd check with me.
I've turned in all info to the Oregon Atty General and will be forwarding the non-existent option info also. I believe, whether it's $2,000. or $800., it qualifies as flat out fraud. I also believe that any amount multiplied by the thousands (millions) of Lithia customers qualifies as big $$$$ fraud and a calculated, company objective to commit fraud. No wonder Lithia is so profitable - I have a really strong feeling that if every transaction Lithia has been a part of were audited, non-existent options are probably the norm, not the exception. Toyota - stand behind your customers, not your dishonest dealerships.
#140
Sat, November 02, 2002
I am in the process of getting the information that Lithia Toyota of Springfield submitted to the credit union that financed this vehicle. It's possible that the dealership misrepresented the car to the credit union in order to get an inflated price financed. So far I know that they said the vehicle had a sliding rear window (not true) and listed the power windows/locks (I thought that the aftermarket power windows and locks would lower the vehicle value - does anyone know?) -- I think there may be other inaccuracies.
Wouldn't this constitute fraud? In the meantime, an email from Toyota said that it's left up to each dealership whether or not they will "certify" a vehicle with non-toyota parts - This means, that "certified" means absolutely zero
Aimee
Eugene,#15Consumer Comment
Fri, October 18, 2002
Troy,
Thank you for this information. Do you have any idea how I can get it in writing? At this point, I don't trust Toyota to give me a straight answer. If I can get this in writing this will definitely help my case.
I searched Toyota's website and any other sites regarding Toyota Certified, but didn't find the info regarding aftermarket parts.
Thanks for your time!
Aimee
Dear Ripoff Report - I hope it's alright to repsond to this advice - is there another spot I'm supposed to do this?
Troy
Raleigh,#16Consumer Suggestion
Mon, October 14, 2002
First off, I apologize about your unfortunate situation with your Tacoma. I usually only "lurk" on these consumer sites because they are designed for consumers and not for the defense of the companies under complaint.
Don, if you knew anything at all about the Toyota Certified program, you would know that the vehicle does not even qualify if there are ANY aftermarket parts or equipment on the vehicle. Some dealers just slap the Toyota Certified logo on the cars w/o first checking.
Ms. Phillips, please consult Toyota directly to clarify this point and good luck.
Roxanne
Orange Park,#17Consumer Comment
Mon, September 30, 2002
Dear Don,
Why would you write such a nasty comment to someone who is just another victim of another Toyota dealers rape? Would you perhaps work for Toyota?
When Toyota puts their "Certified Toyota" used vehicle sticker on their used vehicles it leads the average consumer to believe that there is a standard being upheld.
As we Toyota owners now know Toyota's only standard is lying and cheating anyone who has issues with their product.The dealerships are as brazen as they come when it comes to lying and treating customers badly.
I am ASHAMED to have three Toyota's in my driveway! Lately I have noticed that more and more I am seeing Camry's broken down on the side of the road. Something that you never used to see.
Think about why that might be?
If I had the financial resources I would unload each and every one of my vehicles. I have been a loyal Toyota owner for 20 plus years and am sickened by Toyota Corporate, Toyota Dealers and Toyota Products.
I HAVE OWNED HONDA IN THE PAST AND WILL MOST CERTAINLY REPLACE MY TOYOTA'S WITH HONDA IN THE FUTURE.
As for you Don I hope that you are fortunate enough or smart enough as you seem to think that you are that you are never in a similar situation.
Maybe you might see things a bit differently?
Don
Realtown,#18Consumer Suggestion
Sun, September 29, 2002
Why would a salesman disclose "non Toyota" windows?
Do you expect a salesperson to have knowledge of
every vehicle on the lot? Grow up and live in the
real World. Did you have a chance to look the
vehicle over?
Did you notice the windows? NO.. and you were buying the vehicle..not just trying to sell it. And you say "Shane" overcharged you for the vehicle... is your arm still sore from him
twisting it to get you to sign the papers?
Oh and just to skip the rest of the dribble..
the mean ol' dealership put you in a (shudder)
RED loaner truck...horror upon horrors.
GET A GRIP
you bought it, trade it or live with it.
JEEZ