RKS
Texas,#2Author of original report
Thu, May 09, 2013
Just because some more research has shed light on the polled/horned issue i thought i'd add it in here for the record. We don't wish to falsely accuse anyone.
Spunky had whorls on his head which led us to believe he might not be naturally polled. After all, several websites said so and we had never seen a naturally polled goat before. Our calf was naturally polled and had no whorls, so that was part of what we based our opinion on, as well as the vet's assessment. Our vet does not specialize in goats, but does offer goat services and she also thought that the whorls were an indication of being naturally horned.
Upon reading some forums today, it seems that it's not impossible for goats to get weird hair patterns and have little nubs under their skin on their heads and still be naturally polled. Also they say that the hair on polled goats fluffs up more and horned goats have flatter hair. Spunky's was all sticking up between his eyes.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/determining-if-goat-polled-photos-122153/
The site above shows a picture of a polled kid with what seem to be whorls or something on its forehead. It is possible that what we thought were whorls on spunky was only a strange hair pattern.
So maybe Mr. Jerkins didn't lie about Spunky's horn status after all. In the end we bought sick goats from him, and he did (eventually) do right by us. Maybe we thought he knew more about goats than he actually did, and the whole mess was due to ignorance instead of malice. Who knows?
Rest in peace, Spunky.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/polled-104361/
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/polled-137999/
RKS
Texas,#3Author of original report
Fri, March 29, 2013
Mr. Jerkins did indeed at last refund us the money for the buck, but it arrived the day AFTER the report. We were fed up after waiting so many months for it, that we honestly didn't think he was ever going to give it to us. We should have reported him much sooner, maybe we would have worked it out months before.
First of all, when the goats came home we wormed them with Safeguard for Goats, because that's all we found for goats at the feed store. Later on, it turns out that Safeguard is ineffective, but how were we supposed to know that? He did not recommend a wormer to us when we purchased the goats, and when we first mentioned the girl goat's illness he suggested it was due to bloat, which we treated her for, to no avail. Mr. Jerkins acted as though we should have known that Safeguard was ineffective, but how could we know that the feed store sold something that was USELESS. This was the second time we had EVER purchased goats, and the first ones were completely fine.
Yes, Mr. Jerkins complains that there was no proof in the lab results or vet documents, but he ignores the fact that when the buck was still alive we OFFERED to bring the buck back to show him the lumps, plus the vet papers saying what the lumps were and Mr. Jerkins said NO that he believed us and would refund us. He complains that the vet papers did not describe the buck, well he could have just CALLED the vet, as we provided her office number and email address. He only started complaining about "proof" once Spunky was dead and disposed of.
He also SAYS the test isn't accurate, but when the goat shows the symptoms AND tests positive, i think it's pretty accurate. It's only inaccurate if the goat has been vaccinated for it before, but then it shouldn't be showing symptoms. It's worthwhile to note that when a goat is vaccinated for CL it is only vaccinated for the particular strain of CL that they created the vaccine from, not ALL strains of CL. So even if a goat gets a vaccine, they can STILL get CL. Therefore, in our opinion it is not worth it to vaccinate for CL because it skews test results - in the future we will blood test all our goats bianually and any new additions BEFORE they come here and strictly separate for one whole month.
The case is closed as to where the disease came from- the small female we bought also had abscesses and none of our original goats showed the symptoms nor tested positive. We suspect that he had other goats showing signs too, how could they not considering the state of those two? But that is only speculation. If we were really extorting money from the man, wouldn't we try to charge him more than just our purchase price? He says there are no refunds at auctions, which is why we didn't want to buy at an auction, but from a REPUTABLE honest breeder of healthy goats, which we Mistook him for. There are many REPUTABLE goat breeders who do NOT have herds with CL or Johnes or CAE or any of those. They are common diseases, but they are NOT "everywhere", especially if you follow the right practices AND if you do the right thing and PUT DOWN those that have the disease, rather than pass them on to others.
We waited a VERY long time to try to work things out - we didn't even try to press for vet fees or anything because we figured he didn't have it- we just wanted our money back. We are NOT convinced that he is innocent at all, but are glad that he finally mustered the decency to at least refund us the purchase price of the buck and will never buy or sell goats with this man again, and warn everyone we meet to learn from our mistakes when buying goats in our region.
Spunky is now dead, and whatever the case, in the end Mr. Jerkins did indeed make good on his promise, albeit after several months and a lot of angry bluster.
RKS
Texas,#4Author of original report
Fri, March 29, 2013
Mr. Jerkins did indeed at last refund us the money for the buck, but it came the day after the report. We were fed up after waiting so many months for it, that we honestly didn't think he was going to give it to us. We should have reported him much sooner, maybe we would have worked it out months before.
Yes, Mr. Jerkins complains that there was no proof, but he ignores the fact that when the buck was still alive we OFFERED to bring the buck back to show him the lumps, plus the vet papers saying what the lumps were and Mr. Jerkins said NO that he believed us and would refund us. He complains that the vet papers did not describe the buck, well he could have just CALLED the vet, as we provided her office number and email address.
He also SAYS the test isn't accurate, but when the goat shows the symptoms AND tests positive, i think it's pretty accurate. It's only inaccurate if the goat has been vaccinated for it before, but then it shouldn't be showing symptoms. It's worthwhile to note that when a goat is vaccinated for CL it is only vaccinated for the particular strain of CL that they created the vaccine from, not ALL strains of CL. So even if a goat gets a vaccine, they can STILL get CL. Therefore, in our opinion it is not worth it to vaccinate for CL because it skews test results - in the future we will blood test all our goats bianually and any new additions BEFORE they come here and strictly separate for one whole month.
The case is closed as to where the disease came from- the small female we bought also had abscesses and none of our original goats showed the symptoms nor tested positive. We suspect that he had other goats showing signs too, how could they not? If we were really extorting money from the man, wouldn't we try to charge him more than just our purchase price? He says there are no refunds at auctions, which is why we didn't want to buy at an auction, but from a REPUTABLE honest breeder of healthy goats, which we mistook him for. There are many REPUTABLE goat breeders who do NOT have herds with CL or Johnes or CAE or any of those. They are common diseases, but they are NOT "everywhere", especially if you follow the right practices AND if you do the right thing and PUT DOWN those that have the disease, rather than pass them on to others.
We waited a VERY long time to try to work things out - we didn't even try to press for vet fees or anything because we figured he didn't have it- we just wanted our money back. We are NOT convinced that he is innocent at all, but are glad that he finally mustered the decency to at least refund us the purchase price of the buck and will never buy or sell goats with this man again, and warn everyone we meet to learn from our mistakes when buying goats in our region.
Spunky is now dead, and whatever the case, in the end Mr. Jerkins did indeed make good on his promise, albeit after several months and a lot of angry bluster.
mark
Pleasanton,#5REBUTTAL Owner of company
Mon, February 25, 2013
recently i was contacted by someone wanting money to remove my name off of this list or i wouldn,t even know about it the people who filed the report need your prayers they are godless and evil they say many untrue things about me that my god knows the truth and the people who know me would never believe I have always been taught not to say anything about someone unless its good but i am forced to respond to this attack.
I do sell goats and chickens and i did sell them 2 goats and one did die from worms the story is i done some repairs on a home and the people couldn't pay so i traded for some goats I kept some and sold some to get my money back my animals are well taken care of but these were not cared for as well I told these people to worm these animals as soon as they got them they did not do this as far as the C.L i did not know about this disease until i looked it up after they called me this was 2 months after they bought the goat and after the little goat had died and i had given there money back if you buy animals at an auction there is no going back but i felt i done what was right at the time
I never seen anything wrong with the bigger goat iwas sent a vague vet bill on a goat that tested pos for C.L but it didn't say brown and white goat or a purple goat so there was never proof sent to me IT was also never proven the goat didn't contract the disease at ther place he was there a good while before they called me. I spoke with my vet about this and examined all of my other animals with no sign of any bumps or knots
my vet said this disease is everywhere the test is not 100% accurate and you can only watch and cull the sick goats as you find them in your herd i never have had anything like this before and don't know if i do now I gave the money back for the second goat only to stop the constant harassment and put an end to this but i was attacked with this add right after they received the money order i sent them for the second goat this is all i will say about this you make your own judgement the people who know me well know the truth without asking thank you and god bless.