Complaint Review: MEINEKE Car Care Center - Canton Ohio

The previous poster is correct. Pre 1995 / 1996 (not a definite cut-off date) new vehicles with air conditioning were changed from R-12 (dichlorodifluoromethane,  commonly referred to as Freon, actually a DuPont registered trade name) to R134a. The old R-12 refrigerant was used with mineral oil, and worked at lower head pressures than the new R134a refrigerant. The new 134a must be used with (synthetic) PAG or ester oil.

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Any attempt to change an R12 system to R134a  is predisposed to complete failure. For starters, the difference in operating pressure between the two  is not addressable. Secondly, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to evacuate all the oil from an A/C system, being that its distributed throughout the system. Mineral oil and PAG or ester oils are completely incompatible.  Any  mineral oil remaining, when coming in contact with either synthetic oil, creates a slimy goo that ruins the system. R134a refrigerant WILL NOT carry mineral oil within the system for sealing and lubrication, hence the necessity of the incompatible synthetic oil.

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There are gas mixes available of various compounding of gasses to replace R-12.  These are not a workable solution either. The molecular size of the different gasses causes a disproportionate loss of the component gasses, upsetting the original mix. This makes it impossible to add to a system so charged. The system must be completely evacuated and recharged to maintain a proper  mix the vendor has dreamed up. Thats even assuming the mix is even workable to begin with.

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Anyone with a valuable vehicle (to wit: Classic or antique) with an R12 system is better off going to the expense of sourcing R12 for their vehicle.

I personally have a large hoard of R12 and R22 refrigerant as I could see what was about to happen back in 1994-5.  R12 is still available on E Bay. Sadly, the pre-change 12 to 14 oz. $1.00 or less cans are now going for around $40.00 or more. Still the best solution of any vehicle which  is truly valuable is to remain with the correct refrigerant. For my central (house) A/C the R22 has gone from  $28.00 per 30# cylinder to $250. to $300. These increases make the ascending price of gold envious.

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Some of the foregoing involve violation of our wonderful Federal governments current regulations. DO NOT expect a legitimate shop to violate these regulations. The fines and penalties can be staggering. As an individual, a person can stay below the radar.

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Yeah, I know. There are anecdotal reports of successful changes to the new refrigerants. (R12 to R134a)  For every successful conversion there are hundreds of systems permanently ruined.

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Hello, I wanted to give you some information regarding your grandmother's friend who had an A/C problem with his car. I'm just a shade tree mechanic myself, I don't represent anyone and am just offering my opinion. In most older cars (pre-1995), the freon used for cooling is generally R-11 or R-12 which is an ozone depleting substance. The EPA has banned production or importation of the old refrigerants to protect the ozone layer, and most newer cars use R-134a which is environmentally friendlier. Unfortunately for owners of old cars, you cannot simply change out the old stuff for the new stuff; many modifications to the A/C system have to be made. Thus the shop attempted to just change it over, but they probably knew (or should have known) that it would cost more than just $50 for a recharge since it was an older car. But regardless, they legally cannot just add old freon as there are huge penalties for doing so. Still, I think that the shop was both incompetent and unfair to cause damage to your car's oil plug and not be willing to either repair it themselves or pay for the repair. Unfortunately its a common thing for chain stores to over-torque fasteners as they're usually in a big hurry and they probably figure too tight is better than too loose.