- Report: #305660
Complaint Review: Randy Crane's seminar - Grow Rich Stay Rich - Provo Utah
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Randy Crane's seminar - Grow Rich Stay Rich
4692 North 300 West, Suite 250 Provo, 84604 Utah, U.S.A.
Phone:
801-221-0535
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Randy Crane's seminar, They Grow Rich, They Stay Rich Very suspicious yet smoothly and professionally delivered with the sophistication of tantalizing greed Provo Utah
Well, I just attended Randy Crane's seminar in Colorado Springs and the 3 day event in Denver. Randy is a great presenter and offers a lot of credibility with his credentials - if they are truly his credentials. Randy gave us a lot of info that was meant to and did leave us asking for more. There was at least one thing that he claimed that didn't jive with what was covered in Denver. Randy wasn't there and NO ONE mentioned that the photo of the house they kept throwing up was one that Randy had recently acquired in the suburbs of Chicago. You would think they would be all over it since there were so many specific anecdotes bandied about. These guys are practiced and smooth as they can be. Silky even. We are all going to be making so much money that $30K is nothing! It is an investment to be a better father/husband/grandfather/homecoming queen, whatever. One hour of trading a day will get us pretty much all we need, more work and diligence will get us even further along the path to $$$Gazillions. Using American icons with quotes flashing during breaks, constant references to their friends Zig Ziglar, Peter Lowe, Robert Kiyosaki (there is NO relation between him and GRSR!) even Trump and Collin Powell all add to the credibility of these guys - calculating and oh, so believable. BUT, if I hear "Does that make sense to everybody?" or "Does everyone agree with that, yes or no?" one more time, I swear I will scream! They tend to overuse the sheep method of getting everyone's hands raised and mass participation. I think they are following the old school sales theory that if you can get people to follow your choreography, getting them into the obedient "yes" mode during the sales pitch is all the more easier.
Well, there was nothing in their presentation that I could really argue with. They offer education, training and mentorship of a multiple income stream concept that, if properly and intelligently employed, should provide some above average returns. $30K for $M's is a no brainer right? Not so fast there Einstein. What exactly do they deliver? Several comments in the ripoff report allude to poor quality materials, lack of support and publicly available information being represented as exclusive to Grow Rich, Stay Rich. I don't know as I don't have any of the materials. They flashed a website with loads of research and data that they supposedly provide. I found the same website for free - the EXACT same website only it doesn't have the GRSR banner at the top.
http://pre.foreclosure.com/search.html?st=CO&cno=041&z=&tab=p
Look familiar to anyone? Same website only it is free or you can get the premium content for $29.99 but there is so much info on the free site, you really don't need to pay. "Does everybody understand that?"
Why was the website represented as GRSR info when it was merely a rebadged free site? Genius I say! Hmmm, what about all the training on stocks, options and Forex? They showed us the Reuters.com site. What they didn't show us was that Reuters.com has training on their site - on the free site there is training and even a paper trading site where you can practice trading using their tools AND getting advice from their trading desk. You can also download - for free - Forex for Dummies. I am suspicious that they may have also rebranded some Reuters.com free products as GRSR products. Maybe, maybe not as I have not seen their trading site or training materials. As someone who is already doing pretty well due to unrelated hard work and success, I was looking for a way to further profit from it by putting it to work to generate passive income. I discussed this with one of their counselors and asked him how much he made last year. No amount was forthcoming because the SEC didn't allow them to disclose anything that would influence students to assume they would get the same returns. Ok, can I call someone that has been thru the program? No. If they allowed that, instead of trading stocks and selling properties graduates of the program would be fielding calls all day. Ok, I can't invest without some due diligence so I let him know I made friends with people who had signed up for the Chairman's program ($32K) and they agreed to call me and let me know who things went. He pretty much clammed up on that one. I swear, he went from low key trying to get me in to "Next". My gut was trying to tell me something, so I listened and decided that although it sounded too good to be true I shouldn't go for it and commit. After reading the comments here I am more than glad that I didn't. One thing interesting was that he mentioned that all the sales people were independent contractors. I found that interesting. Independent contractors in the family oriented GRSR program? Maybe there is a reason - but I would think they would want everyone to have a solid connection to the company and it's interests rather than 'rent a salesperson'.
IF they provide the amount of support they say they will and IF they provide something to you in writing regarding their commitment and obligation to you and IF you put work and sweat into the program, it should work. But IF you can get most of the information and training for FREE, why pay them $32K to make it happen? Crap, sign up to the best Reuters and Bloomberg and Real Estate services offered and get the same or better information and save yourself about $27K. If that doesn't work, call the guys up and leverage a discount. They recommend negotiating around a 50% discount on property to FMV, why not offer them $15K....or less. There are probably 100s of people out there who have REAL experience of taking the classes, attending the onsite training and mentorship programs. Hopefully a few of you will comment after you have been in the program 6 months or a year. Did you benefit greatly? Are you doing as Sid said he was, moving every 3 months to a bigger property? Are your spouses and children and/or business partners joining in and also seeing great success...or is this just repackaging a bunch of free and recycled info into the REAL Get Rich, Stay Rich scheme, which is Sid and his group getting rich and the rest of us lick our wounds and move on to the next scheme? Don't respond if you just signed up a month ago and still have stars in your eyes! Look, I can make negative remarks about Quixstar (Amway) and there will be dozens of newbies with Lamborghini dreams telling me they are the next Trump as they blog between listening to their upline's CD's about how his wife and he enjoy Hawaii and his children all have their own ponies (Oh, Sid's daughter has a horse that she taught to sit down! ..and he enjoys Hawaii!) and watching DVD home movies of their soon to be foreclosed house and one day rental Porshe in the drive (you should have removed the Hertz sticker!).
If I were running a similar sales organization I would want Sid and his group working for me for sure - they are smooth, almost seamless in their execution and even the trainees or 2nd tier staff were showing some good polish. If it is all a front, I pity those very nice people who signed away a large portion of their savings or credit in hope for a better and more profitable life.
On a quick side note, I did pick up that ALL the GRSR staff have known eachother for a long time. The top tier group are either related or worked together for as long as 30 years. Seemed a bit clannish. The 2nd tier group went to school together and have known eachother for dozens of years also. I'm not sure if the Mormon component is significant. It didn't come out but they are all from Utah so it could play some part in justifying any fleece factor - if there is one.
For those who didn't pay those extortionate rates, a LOT of the ideas, concepts and strategies detailed and discussed in the seminar are useful, real and can be applied without the courses. In that sense GRSR does offer MUCH more value than the $50 seminar, make SURE to cancel the website subscription by following the directions on the paperwork you received at the 1st mini seminar, otherwise you've agreed to be charged monthly...
If you ever attend any future seminars, decide BEFORE you go that you will not spend any money on any of their products, programs or anything else until you have time to digest it, return home (or to your hotel room) and Google it. It is probably better to see how much and how far you can get with free information rather than paying people loads of money on a whim after they toy with your greed, desperation and emotions. Generally, the course are merely introductions to further and more advanced and expensive courses and mentorship programs until you finally realize you are "on your own".
Beware of false profits! (synonym intended!)
"Does that make sense to everyone?"
Colorado
colorado springs, Colorado
U.S.A.
Well, there was nothing in their presentation that I could really argue with. They offer education, training and mentorship of a multiple income stream concept that, if properly and intelligently employed, should provide some above average returns. $30K for $M's is a no brainer right? Not so fast there Einstein. What exactly do they deliver? Several comments in the ripoff report allude to poor quality materials, lack of support and publicly available information being represented as exclusive to Grow Rich, Stay Rich. I don't know as I don't have any of the materials. They flashed a website with loads of research and data that they supposedly provide. I found the same website for free - the EXACT same website only it doesn't have the GRSR banner at the top.
http://pre.foreclosure.com/search.html?st=CO&cno=041&z=&tab=p
Look familiar to anyone? Same website only it is free or you can get the premium content for $29.99 but there is so much info on the free site, you really don't need to pay. "Does everybody understand that?"
Why was the website represented as GRSR info when it was merely a rebadged free site? Genius I say! Hmmm, what about all the training on stocks, options and Forex? They showed us the Reuters.com site. What they didn't show us was that Reuters.com has training on their site - on the free site there is training and even a paper trading site where you can practice trading using their tools AND getting advice from their trading desk. You can also download - for free - Forex for Dummies. I am suspicious that they may have also rebranded some Reuters.com free products as GRSR products. Maybe, maybe not as I have not seen their trading site or training materials. As someone who is already doing pretty well due to unrelated hard work and success, I was looking for a way to further profit from it by putting it to work to generate passive income. I discussed this with one of their counselors and asked him how much he made last year. No amount was forthcoming because the SEC didn't allow them to disclose anything that would influence students to assume they would get the same returns. Ok, can I call someone that has been thru the program? No. If they allowed that, instead of trading stocks and selling properties graduates of the program would be fielding calls all day. Ok, I can't invest without some due diligence so I let him know I made friends with people who had signed up for the Chairman's program ($32K) and they agreed to call me and let me know who things went. He pretty much clammed up on that one. I swear, he went from low key trying to get me in to "Next". My gut was trying to tell me something, so I listened and decided that although it sounded too good to be true I shouldn't go for it and commit. After reading the comments here I am more than glad that I didn't. One thing interesting was that he mentioned that all the sales people were independent contractors. I found that interesting. Independent contractors in the family oriented GRSR program? Maybe there is a reason - but I would think they would want everyone to have a solid connection to the company and it's interests rather than 'rent a salesperson'.
IF they provide the amount of support they say they will and IF they provide something to you in writing regarding their commitment and obligation to you and IF you put work and sweat into the program, it should work. But IF you can get most of the information and training for FREE, why pay them $32K to make it happen? Crap, sign up to the best Reuters and Bloomberg and Real Estate services offered and get the same or better information and save yourself about $27K. If that doesn't work, call the guys up and leverage a discount. They recommend negotiating around a 50% discount on property to FMV, why not offer them $15K....or less. There are probably 100s of people out there who have REAL experience of taking the classes, attending the onsite training and mentorship programs. Hopefully a few of you will comment after you have been in the program 6 months or a year. Did you benefit greatly? Are you doing as Sid said he was, moving every 3 months to a bigger property? Are your spouses and children and/or business partners joining in and also seeing great success...or is this just repackaging a bunch of free and recycled info into the REAL Get Rich, Stay Rich scheme, which is Sid and his group getting rich and the rest of us lick our wounds and move on to the next scheme? Don't respond if you just signed up a month ago and still have stars in your eyes! Look, I can make negative remarks about Quixstar (Amway) and there will be dozens of newbies with Lamborghini dreams telling me they are the next Trump as they blog between listening to their upline's CD's about how his wife and he enjoy Hawaii and his children all have their own ponies (Oh, Sid's daughter has a horse that she taught to sit down! ..and he enjoys Hawaii!) and watching DVD home movies of their soon to be foreclosed house and one day rental Porshe in the drive (you should have removed the Hertz sticker!).
If I were running a similar sales organization I would want Sid and his group working for me for sure - they are smooth, almost seamless in their execution and even the trainees or 2nd tier staff were showing some good polish. If it is all a front, I pity those very nice people who signed away a large portion of their savings or credit in hope for a better and more profitable life.
On a quick side note, I did pick up that ALL the GRSR staff have known eachother for a long time. The top tier group are either related or worked together for as long as 30 years. Seemed a bit clannish. The 2nd tier group went to school together and have known eachother for dozens of years also. I'm not sure if the Mormon component is significant. It didn't come out but they are all from Utah so it could play some part in justifying any fleece factor - if there is one.
For those who didn't pay those extortionate rates, a LOT of the ideas, concepts and strategies detailed and discussed in the seminar are useful, real and can be applied without the courses. In that sense GRSR does offer MUCH more value than the $50 seminar, make SURE to cancel the website subscription by following the directions on the paperwork you received at the 1st mini seminar, otherwise you've agreed to be charged monthly...
If you ever attend any future seminars, decide BEFORE you go that you will not spend any money on any of their products, programs or anything else until you have time to digest it, return home (or to your hotel room) and Google it. It is probably better to see how much and how far you can get with free information rather than paying people loads of money on a whim after they toy with your greed, desperation and emotions. Generally, the course are merely introductions to further and more advanced and expensive courses and mentorship programs until you finally realize you are "on your own".
Beware of false profits! (synonym intended!)
"Does that make sense to everyone?"
Colorado
colorado springs, Colorado
U.S.A.
6 Updates & Rebuttals
Whistleblower
Mission Viejo,California,
United States of America
Beware of Randy's "Safe Money Tour"
#2Consumer Comment
Thu, January 19, 2012
My attorneys in Utah have told me a while back that Utah is the real estate scam capital of the world. So, when I received an invitation to the "Safe Money Tour" I was intrigued.
I attended this information session in November of last year. The 'tour' is a compendium of short info sessions of several investment opportunity providers, including buying gold, investing in the stock market and a specific type of real estate investment. The draw to this 'tour' was that they were going to give away a free house in a drawing. A house that obviously would vary from the picture on their flyer.
A number of potential investment opportunities, gold for example, seemed too good to be true and raised a logical question, "why wouldn't someone want to participate?"
Given my intrigue with a potential real estate scam, I decided to attend the subsequent real estate investment session, put on by Jonathan Day of 'r1 Real Estate'. Jonathan is the one that informed me that Randy Crane was the organizer of the "Safe Money Tour".
Attendees at the 'tour' were informed at the end that the drawing for the free house would be conducted at the real estate investment session, not at the 'tour'. Seemed like an interesting way to get people to attend these subsequent sessions.
I did attend the real estate session and Jonathan did provide meaningful information, information I believe to be true about the state of the real estate market and the causes of the current foreclosure situation across the country. There were several red flags that were raised during the session in my own mind. Like, get involved now because this opportunity won't last, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, you get the picture. Also, the properties that they are pumping were out of state and 'deals like this won't last'. I for one don't invest untill I have done my own due diligence, so I didn't pursue any of the opportunities. The drawing for the free house was conducted at the end of the session ONLY after Jonathan was reminded of the promise of a drawing. Seemed like Jonathan was caught off guard. There were no contest rules or disclosures given about the drawing or the house.
As luck would have it, I won the drawing and was subsequently referred to Randy Crane.
That was the early part of November, 2010.
To make a long story short, I did speak to Randy once, he provided some info on the house in Ohio via email and subseqently promised to send me more details. I also asked him to send me the 'disclosures' that he said were previously given, that weren't. I have not received any other information and Randy is not responding to multiple phone calls or email requests.
Seems that his behavior is consistent with his behaviors noted in other posts on 'Rip Off Reports'.
I also discovered that Randy Crane is a twice convicted felon per two articles in the Daily Herald, which I found by researching links in the 'Rip Off Reports'.
As it turns out, the owner of the house in Ohio is the same company that Randy Crane was involved with that led to his two convictions.
Did I really want the free house? NO, I just wanted to see where this would lead.
Do I really want to do business with a twice convicted felon? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Do I trust my instincts when red flags are raised? ABSOLUTELY YES.
Would I be suspicious of any associate in business with a twice convicted felon? ABSOLUTELY YES.
Would I caution anyone for the same? ABSOLUTELY YES, hence this post.
I just suggest you do your own homework and due diligence BEFORE investing into any opportunity.
CONSUMER BEWARE!
Whistleblower
Mission Viejo,California,
United States of America
Beware of Randy's "Safe Money Tour"
#3Consumer Comment
Thu, January 19, 2012
My attorneys in Utah have told me a while back that Utah is the real estate scam capital of the world. So, when I received an invitation to the "Safe Money Tour" I was intrigued.
I attended this information session in November of last year. The 'tour' is compendium of short info sessions of several investment opportunity providers, including buying gold, investing in the stock market and a specific type of real estate investment. The draw to this 'tour' was that they were going to give away a free house in a drawing. A house that obviously would vary from the picture on their flyer.
A number of potential investment opportunities, gold for example, seemed too good to be true and why wouldn't someone want to participate?
Given my intrigue with a potential real estate scam, I decided to attend the subsequent real estate investment session, put on by Jonathan Day of 'r1 Real Estate'. Jonathan is the one that informed me that Randy Crane was the organizer of the "Safe Money Tour".
Attendees at the 'tour' were informed at the end that the drawing for the free house would be conducted at the real estate investment session, not at the 'tour'. Seemed like an interesting way to get people to attend these subsequent sessions.
I did attend the real estate session and Jonathan did provide meaningful information, information I believe to be true about the state of the real estate market and the causes of the current foreclosure situation across the country. There were several red flags that were raised during the session in my own mind. Like, get involved now because this opportunity won't last, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, you get the picture. Also, the properties that they are pumping were out of state and 'deals like this won't last'. I for one don't invest untill I have done my own due diligence, so I didn't pursue any of the opportunities. The drawing for the free house was conducted at the end of the session ONLY after Jonathan was reminded of the promise of a drawing. Seemed like Jonathan was caught off guard. There were no contest rules or disclosures given about the drawing or the house.
As luck would have it, I won the drawing and was subsequently referred to Randy Crane.
That was the early part of November, 2010.
To make a long story short, I did speak to Randy once, he provided some info on the house in Ohio via email and subseqently promised to send me more details. I also asked him to send me the 'disclosures' that he said were previously given, that weren't. I have not received any other information and Randy is not responding to multiple phone calls or email requests.
Seems that his behavior is consistent with his behaviors noted in other posts on 'Rip Off Reports'.
I also discovered that Randy Crane is a twice convicted felon per two articles in the Daily Herald, which I found by researching links in the 'Rip Off Reports'.
As it turns out, the owner of the house in Ohio is the same company that Randy Crane was involved with that led to his two convictions.
Did I really want the free house? NO, I just wanted to see where this would lead.
Do I really want to do business with a twice convicted felon? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Do I trust my instincts when red flags are raised? ABSOLUTELY YES.
Would I be suspicious of any associate in business with a twice convicted felon? ABSOLUTELY YES.
Would I caution anyone for the same? ABSOLUTELY YES, hence this post.
I just suggest you do your own homework and due diligence BEFORE investing into any opportunity.
CONSUMER BEWARE!
anonymous
Provo,Utah,
United States of America
Randy is now a twice convicted felon
#4Consumer Comment
Fri, December 17, 2010
I am responding to Randy Crane's rebuttal to the first writer. In this rebuttal he talks about all the homes he owns and how successful he is. For the real public record on Mr Crane visit http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/article_775e9cf8-d32d-52e0-a615-c14a74a7610f.html. and http://www.utahcountyonline.org/Dept/Sheriff/Corrections/InmateDetail.asp?ID=247404 The hundreds of houses Randy writes about were never owned by him. They were owned by United Management. 100% of the money used to buy these homes was from investors. 100% of the homes were owned by the investors. The real story is that you forged documents showing that you were the managing member of United Management, You then opened a secret bank account and secretly sold 17 houses owned by United and deposited the entire proceeds of the sales of these homes into your secret bank account. You then spent all the money on lavish living for a few months until your partners discovered your theft. You are a common thief. Fortunately the law has finally caught up with you.
Donald
Conyers,Georgia,
United States of America
Response to Randy Crane
#5Consumer Comment
Thu, September 23, 2010
Are you serious, Randy Crane!! I'm just seeing this rebuttal for the first time and I had to respond. It's because of scam artists like you, that i decided to start my own honest business. I and now, life is pretty good. If this response get's me kicked of of the rip-off report, so be it. I HAVE to respond:
You have no right to call anyone a coward!! You and that team or yours run from city to city, milking out of their hard-earned money, and hiding when they try to call you on it. Don't come into this forum acting like you're all upright and honest, because you're not. You are responding to one case and I 'm sure there are hundreds of others. You can sit up here talking about all the stuff you've done, but that fact remains...the guy that made this report is not lying...AND YOU KNOW IT!!
I attended one of your seminars back in 2006 or 2007. I remember that "randy'sgaragesale" because it's scam, too. I tested your website by ordering products and never got them until I started hounding you for them. I had to call you and your customer service over 20 times, and in the end I still didn't get everything.
To the guy who posted this...I am so proud of you for doing it. Randy, I hope they succeed in filing that lawsuit against you, and I hope they take every ill-gotten dime that you own. You deserve it! You've been scamming people for far too long. And people need to see you for what you are...a liar.
Probably my first and last report on this forum
Donald
Randy Crane
Orem,Utah,
U.S.A.
Sounds like sour grapes.
#6UPDATE Employee
Tue, January 27, 2009
My name is Randy Crane. I am the person referred to in this Rip-Off report as being Very Professional. I can't same the same about the person who wrote this report. People come to seminars wanting to change their lives, some do. Some take ahold of what they are taught and run full speed and enjoy the fruits of their labors. Others don't. Those that don't need a place to blame others for their circumstance. They can't seam to put the blame where it should belong. Right back on their own shoulders. Others are so stuck in the mud that they can't see through it. This reason that these people lash out. I wonder how hard things are for the person who wrote this report. I am a man of my word. Not one thing in the presentation I gave was misleading, false, exaggerated or untrue. My background which is questioned is public record. Former VP for Qwest Communications Founder of Conference Calls For Free. Randy'sgaragesale and Now CraneFYI I own more than 185 houses accross the country free and clear. I also have the courage to place my name here in my rebuttal unlike the person who wrote the report. Ya see when someone lies.....it's harder to place your name there for fear of being discovered. I stand behind everything I have ever said from stage. I have recorded almost every presentation so people like the person who wrote this complaint don't have a leg to stand on. But here is my challenge to this financial success coward. Come forward. Your intent coming to the seminar in the first place was you were unhappy about where you are financially. I commit to you that I will teach you one on one for free to buy a house free and clear from a bank for less that 5 thousand dollars. One that you can rent out each month for at least $700 Then........ When I do this, when you have got your house the one I will teach you how to buy .............You have to issue a full and complete apology. And you have to give one month of your rent money to the Make a wish foundation. Are you up for that? Or are you too content being what you are.......a coward. Oh just a small FYI It's not my seminar company. I was invited to lecture because of my success in Real Estate. Any your comment regarding false profits (synonym intended) again shows the world what kind of person you are. You are a coward. You are attacking my faith and the faith of 13 million others. If you decide to take my offer ( you won't ) Contact me by posting here.
Randy Crane
Orem,Utah,
U.S.A.
Sounds like sour grapes.
#7UPDATE Employee
Tue, January 27, 2009
My name is Randy Crane. I am the person referred to in this Rip-Off report as being Very Professional. I can't same the same about the person who wrote this report. People come to seminars wanting to change their lives, some do. Some take ahold of what they are taught and run full speed and enjoy the fruits of their labors. Others don't. Those that don't need a place to blame others for their circumstance. They can't seam to put the blame where it should belong. Right back on their own shoulders. Others are so stuck in the mud that they can't see through it. This reason that these people lash out. I wonder how hard things are for the person who wrote this report. I am a man of my word. Not one thing in the presentation I gave was misleading, false, exaggerated or untrue. My background which is questioned is public record. Former VP for Qwest Communications Founder of Conference Calls For Free. Randy'sgaragesale and Now CraneFYI I own more than 185 houses accross the country free and clear. I also have the courage to place my name here in my rebuttal unlike the person who wrote the report. Ya see when someone lies.....it's harder to place your name there for fear of being discovered. I stand behind everything I have ever said from stage. I have recorded almost every presentation so people like the person who wrote this complaint don't have a leg to stand on. But here is my challenge to this financial success coward. Come forward. Your intent coming to the seminar in the first place was you were unhappy about where you are financially. I commit to you that I will teach you one on one for free to buy a house free and clear from a bank for less that 5 thousand dollars. One that you can rent out each month for at least $700 Then........ When I do this, when you have got your house the one I will teach you how to buy .............You have to issue a full and complete apology. And you have to give one month of your rent money to the Make a wish foundation. Are you up for that? Or are you too content being what you are.......a coward.
