Complaint Review: UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX ONLINE COLLEGE - THE APPOLLO GROUP - PHOENIX Arizona

Don, in a response to Yasmin you said, "You show UOP how and why their educational model does not work for the majority of their students and I am sure you will get someone to listen." Perhaps you read the wrong post, but Yasmin was referring to being jerked around by the UOP through financial aid. What does this have to do the UOP's "educational model?" Are you arguing the UOP does so much good educating students that the public should overlook its suspect business practices? Yasmin was expressing a common theme, problems with money and the UOP. And she is well supported not only by concerned consumers, but lots of "real" evidence from the U.S. Department of Education, who produced a scathing report on UOP recruiting, or a 11 Feb 2007 New York Times front page article entitled, "Troubles Grow for a University Built of Profits." Good Day!

You mentioned that someone lashed out with name calling but it seems you may have misunderstood the context. The only person who mentioned "idiots" in her post is Tracy. She was referring to the non-profit schools that suffer the same if not worse issues than UOP. I work in Finance for a UOP Ground Campus and the main issues that I see on these boards is that enrollment counselors are not discriminating enough to discern the level of aptitude of the student. Secondly, not enough students are realizing that they are taking out a loan that will have to be paid back and should they fail, financial aid will not cover their failure. As for the original poster, your answers to Robert's comments may shed some light into the matter. As for my opinion, I will refrain from posting that until the original poster sees fit to submit her rebuttal to Robert's comments. I would like to mention that if a person wishes to gain support via an internet forum, one has to understand that they will be criticized by any one for any reason. The best thing that you can do is present your issue in a factual, logical manner and refrain from using emotion to drive your point home. Often, an emotional appeal can be effective in a persuasive argument but you must be careful not to use it too much or your argument could be seen a being full of fallacies. Certain details about oneself can be left out to protect the innocent, but the facts and logic must be used when criticizing the way a company does business. You show UOP how and why their educational model does not work for the majority of their students and I am sure you will get someone to listen.

Scrolling through these reports it's evident financial aid or money problems cause many complaints. Perhaps because UOP's financial policies are at odds with what so many students "learn" from the Enrollment Counselor (EC) during the recruiting or sales experience? One common theme among posters is "the EC told me I could finish in this many months, that financial aid would pay for this percentage, that I would receive the additional amount etc...." Then, after signing up, and no doubt not reading a large amount of fine print in the application documents, and attending classes, students run into problems, get loans immeadiatly sent to collections, can't sign up for more classes etc..." i.e. they learn what the real rules are.... So who's fault is this? There is likely no doubt UOP documents provide more than enough "wiggle room" to allow the company to treat students as it does. There's also no doubt UOP EC's often give incoming students a very different view of what will happen at the UOP regarding financial aid monies. Ultimately, whats in the documents and contracts will always control. So EC's can tell you whatever they want, remember, they are nothing more than sales folks, who want to get PAID. If your boss is telling you to get numbers or you won't get paid, who's interests will come first? When the EC is telling a student how easy it is, how much money they will get, they are "making the sale", not necessarily educating the student on all aspects of a UOP educations, including the policies so many students find deeply offensive. Consumers are here, PISSED OFF, because after formulating a certain expectation from working with the EC, the students encounter the real policies of the UOP, which often contradict or at least appear at odds with what they were told by the EC. Remember, proving someone did you wrong is HARD. The ECs can say "ANYTHING", it's not in writing, and you signed a contract! Can there be any doubt hard charging UOP executives understand this? Perhaps all students should be advised to bring UOP contracts to attorneys prior to signing ANYTHING.!

The rebuttals listed here by UOP "tech support" people, and supporters of UOP, show, a sign of personal attack, I to have filed a reoport against the school, and in research know for sure that the school has been targeted in the past legally for committing similar offense against students. what I do not understand is why do those that support this school and others similar become so irrate at honest complaints, to the degree of lashing out with name calling ( i. e" idiot" ) and questioning intregrity, because the reporter stated that he/she is 6 classes from finishing the degree program instead of stating how many credits away, the real issue is, clear, many more people have had problems with this schools integrity with regard to the schools initiating some sort of financial issue, which will inhibit the students from recieving their degree or transcripts, which seems pretty fishy to me. The amount that UOP says that I owe is pennies compared to others, but some things are a matter of pricipal, I was told however, that if I wanted to offset this debt, I could always just reaaply with UOP and continue to work very hard at my next degree program, as I am one of the "idiots" that did indeed complete the program, with a 3.59 GPA, but after the school sent about 800.00 dollars of loan money back to my lender, that was to and could have covered my final class, even the lender is confused by my so-called debt ( by the way it pays to comunicate with the lender at times, you'll be amazed at what you can learn from them. Anyway the school returned money to the lender, and calculated a debt on my behalf, so that I will not get official copies of my degree or transcripts, unless of course, I continue on with them., as for the person that views complaints such as these as bogus, do we need to give you our IRN numbers , or should we send copies of transcripts, grades, classes, former, grades etc. for our reports to sound more believable. Most of us are extremely irrate and upset at the point of initating our initial reports, and also a little relieved to see that we are not alone, I too am waiting for the next class action suit to be filed against this school, because there practices are very unethical and they know it.

Your assertion that the UOP sometimes hires the bad apple or two, that such employees explain the bad treatment so many students apparently express, just isn't in line with the evidence. The 2004 US Department of Education report on UOP recruiting violations paints a picture of a school where there appeared to be NO LINE in regards to acceptable/unnacceptable behavior. THE DOE described that the UOP "systematically operates in a duplicitous manner." SO the DOE was not saying the UOP has a "few bad apples," they were saying the UOP operated "systematically" (part of method or plan) in a duplicitous (deliberatelly deceptive) manner. YOu must really like this school to defend it in light of all the available evidence! Thanks!

Tim, I certainly agree with you. If you are feeling like you are being ripped off, then YES! You should complain! I've been ripped off by places like Cingular and home loan companies, so I FEEL the pain that these people feel when they are ripped off. Did UOP do it? I can honestly say Tim that I do not know. I don't know if it was miscommunication between the student and the finance department or incompetent financial aid advisors or what. All I know is that I personally have never ripped off a student my entire career at UOP and I can say with certainty that everyone I have worked with and for have not done so either. Every company hires poorly every once in a while. Maybe that was what happened. Maybe that is why UOP does background checks now for the past two years. We try to hire people with ethical values, but we're not perfect. We've fired people for unethical practices several times. We silent monitor our advisors, academic counselors, finance counselors and operation employees now. Mostly for customer service, but we fired someone about a year ago for cohersing someone to lie on their FAFSA application (obtained info via silent monitoring). We take compliance with federal laws seriously. At least at the campus where I work. I cannot speak for the other campuses, but I would venture to say, that they do too. I know we are not perfect and we have made mistakes and for students that got caught up those instances, I am truly sorry. I defend my employer because I believe in their product and the root intentions. I also know that I am not doing what these people are claiming ALL UOP employees do. This simply is a generalization. Yes, there are a lot of complaints on this website against UOP, but as we all know, some of them may be unfounded. I am not saying this one is, I'm just saying some may be. So to all, do your research. If you feel UOP is for you then go for it. If not, I wish you well in your educational endeavors. What I hope is that you continue your education and complete your degree. Be it at UOP or elsewhere. JUST DO IT! I believe in education and am an advocate for all students and education be it grade school, high school, or higher education, not just UOP students. SO LET ME SHOUT IT OUT....GET YOUR EDUCATION!!! All my best to all of you,

As most of us have experience at the UOP, and I think we all understood going in its for-profit, we probably don't have a problem with for-profits in general...Right? Are you saying because UOP's "mission" is noble we should overlook all the crud that never seems to end, like the NYT article indicates. Its nice for any profit or not for profit to "serve" students, but your are not asserting the UOP exists for that purpose, are you? I think what people don't like is when they feel cheated, lied to, treated like a commodity rather than a student. Judging by all the complaints here it seems like a lot of students feel this way...

I always have to laugh when complaints come from former students in regards to UOP being a 'for profit' university. Duh. No kidding? It's all over the news!! The comment made by Robert stating that Harvard has a 35 BILLION dollar dowry really brings it home for me. Other private, non-profit universities get billions of dollars from various means, yet they are never questioned. I would seriously question a university that pays several of their deans, coaches, etc over a million dollars a year and provide them a home, car and other "perks". Private non-profit universities mis-manage their funds and over-pay useless people more than any other university EVER! Not to mention that the states and UC systems do the same and have gotten themselves into such financial woes that they cannot even afford to offer courses to all students that apply. I'd rather go to a for-profit university instead of a state or UC school that mis-manages their funds. If anything, you all should be mad at the state and UC systems! As a tax-payer, you are paying through the nose for those idiots!! My hat is off to UOP for seeing a need for the students of America! So their for-profit? Who cares? Maybe all schools should follow their lead. By the way, EVERY school you go to, no matter if it is for or not for profit, you will have incompetent instructors, financial aid woes and academic screw-ups. Prove me wrong. Give me the name of 5 schools that have a perfect track record and haven't pissed any students off. You'll never find one. NEVER. My advice, pick the school that is right for YOU. If UOP suits you, go for it. If not, go suffer through the state system. Good luck!!

Suzanne, You are simply regurgitating your statement over and over again that you have facts and evidence to back you up. Yet the title of this thread and your statements are still inconsistent. 12 credits = 4 classes 18 credits = 6 classes So which is it? You state you were 12 credits shy or 6 classes away from completion? If you can't get this part right how can your other statements be deemed as credible? Especially since you are trying to build a case based on that argument.

Suzanne, You are simply regurgitating your statement over and over again that you have facts and evidence to back you up. Yet the title of this thread and your statements are still inconsistent. 12 credits = 4 classes 18 credits = 6 classes So which is it? You state you were 12 credits shy or 6 classes away from completion? If you can't get this part right how can your other statements be deemed as credible? Especially since you are trying to build a case based on that argument.

Suzanne, You are simply regurgitating your statement over and over again that you have facts and evidence to back you up. Yet the title of this thread and your statements are still inconsistent. 12 credits = 4 classes 18 credits = 6 classes So which is it? You state you were 12 credits shy or 6 classes away from completion? If you can't get this part right how can your other statements be deemed as credible? Especially since you are trying to build a case based on that argument.

Suzanne, You are simply regurgitating your statement over and over again that you have facts and evidence to back you up. Yet the title of this thread and your statements are still inconsistent. 12 credits = 4 classes 18 credits = 6 classes So which is it? You state you were 12 credits shy or 6 classes away from completion? If you can't get this part right how can your other statements be deemed as credible? Especially since you are trying to build a case based on that argument.

Robert: I have the material and the facts to back up my allegations so therefore, bring it on. I know that there are people out there that have suffered the same or similar circumstances with UoP, therefore, I will join right in there with them when the opportunity arises. S/Texas

Mathias: Please know that I DO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT COMPUTERS... If I didn't I would not have been at UoP for over 2 years. UoP is a 'for profit' school, period!. The online University I am currently attending is owned by a major newspaper, however, their faculty and staff are much more PROFFESSIONAL, than UoP's ever will be. Don't insult me about knowing how to use computers. I have probably been using them longer than you have been alive. S/Texas

Suzanne, Unless you are willing to back yourself up with facts and documentation instead of emotional rhetoric then you won't have a case. Your statements are inconsistent. How do you expect to rally support if you don't have a leg to stand on? You are taking this personally and I am not attacking you. I am simply pointing out facts. Whenever you post messages in a public forum you have to acknowledge that you will open yourself up for criticism. Stick to the facts and then maybe you will actually have a case. No one is going to support you unless you have those facts to back you up.

Suzanne, I work for Tech Support at UOP Online. you said "hope if enough complaints get filed, something and someone will do something about this FOR PROFIT SCHOOL that takes Federal Funds for Student Loans, then makes up their rules as they go." Well, if i last remember, Harvard had a $25 Billion endowment. EVERY school is in business for money. in other words, when you mentioned "for profit" by the school, thats a horrible excuse. Your better off not going to any school, if you think that it is bad for a school to take money. If they didnt, they would be out of business. Also, you seem to be very angry for no real reason. Out of all the posts, you have sent, i have not found one reason as to what the school possibly did you wrong in. This school is not easy. You actually have to know something about computers.

Amando: You obviously are not acquainted with the online program. I have read EVERY post on this website, so therefore, your words are NULL to me. Get a life my friend, because if this is all you have to say then you must be a person of very few words and most of all, least education!

but nobody can question yours. Just take your word for it that that's how things played out. Riiight.

Robert: Who are You to be qestioning me? I was 6 classes from finishing. UOP is a ripoff in every shape form and fashion. I don't know who you are and don't care. If anyone out there is entertaining the idea of a class action law suit I certainly want to be included. I am not done with UoP. I have filed a complaint with the Arizona State Attorney General's Office. I hope if enough complaints get filed, something and someone will do something about this FOR PROFIT SCHOOL that takes Federal Funds for Student Loans, then makes up their rules as they go. Don't question me or my integrity, I am older than you think and wiser! S/Texas

Suzanne, If you were expecting to graduate with your Bachelor's in 18 months, exactly how much prior college did you have to transfer in? I can only assume that you were at about 75 credits or more. Was a pre-evaluation done in order to substantiate this? Now you state that you had loans disbursed for over $24000. Exactly how many credits did you actually transfer in? This makes a big difference in the available loan amounts. The reason why is that Loan amounts are based on credits transferred in or attained at the time of application. Level 1 | 0-23 credits | $6625 Level 2 | 24-47 credits | $7500 Level 3/4 | 48+ credits | $10500 My point is that unless you transferred in over 48 credits then you could not have been qualified for $10500 during that first year. Also, in the title of your message you state you were 12 hours from finishing. This equates to 4 classes. In the body of your message you stated you were 6 classes from finishing. That equates to 18 credits. Can you clarify this inconsistency?