Complaint Review: DS-Max Cydcor Granton Marketing VES Marketing - Tampa Florida

Ian, what a surprise that you've taken the time to respond to something on here since you're always out in the field selling coupon books! I worked for these companies long enough to know that it's a pretty sad job. And as Ian puts it- you have to be a Duck vs. a Sponge(bob) to endure walking through the rain and snow just to put some money in your pockets. Worth it? Heh, you decide... How is this NOT a triangle/ pyramid scheme??? Leaders are out there showing you and teaching you how to sell coupon books, and once you've sold a certain number within a week (40 books), you're promoted to a leader and then you have to get others to leadership so you can advance up the "ladder." You carpooled with at least 3 other people into your "territory" where you had a copy of the map of your street you had to solicit to. You walked all day through the same neighborhood at least 3 times the whole day selling- rain, snow, or shine. They say that once you're an "owner," you're making a sh*t load of money, you get your own office, you're not going door to door selling coupon books. But why was the Owner of All Stars Marketing/ Cause Marketing (Ian Ezyk) going door to door hustling to make his own money??? Wasn't that the job of everyone else working under him? Ian responded to a previous report that he makes over $200k a year. So tell me why you drive beat up SUV and cars, and rent instead of own a home? His partner Thomas Briscoe (owner of Champion Marketing Group) owns and shares a Suzuki Aero with his wife and rents a one-bedroom apartment in a very non-safe neighborhood. I understand you don't have to drive something big and gaudy and have a mansion, but I would think you would be able to afford to get your means of transportation fixed and maintained with the money that you're making for someone that's single or married and renting. Ex-Manager from Pittsburgh, PA- Angela's not Ian's girl, unless she's one of the many that he messed around with from the company. His "main squeeze" was Genie. They lived together, and drove each other nuts at home and at work. So unprofessional to have relationship problems at work, and seeing her cry in the bathroom was quite awkward to run into. Hearing horror stories in the morning at work about how she threw and broke things all night keeping roommates up, which also worked for the company. Don't they ever tell you not to date coworkers? Ian, you say: " who ever wrote this crap is just pissed off because they don't have the work ethic that it takes to be successful in any business nevermind a busness that is a true reflection of yourself!" If that's the case, then your failing business is a reflection of how you steal from the company, the majority of your employees leave within 3 months or sooner, and you (as the OWNER) is working territory to make your own profit, when you claim to make how much your third year with the company??? Derek, you're not the only one of the managers that lied to his employees. Ian Ezyk told us that he did underwater welding, and also a pilot before he came to do what he does now. Would you actually think that a 26 year old would drop out of being a pilot to run in the rain to sell a couple of books? He told me that sometimes I have to say whatever it takes to sell the coupon books. What I felt really bad at doing, was telling people that the profits of the coupon books were going towards a good cause- Wheel Chair Basketball (NWBA). But did you know I was making more money per book than who the cause was for??? Pretty sad. only .50 cents for each book sold was going towards the cause, I got to make $10, a little a*s backwards, don't you think? I could go on all night and vent about my experience that I had working for them, but it's been reflected through the Rebuttals of others before mine. Thanks for taking the time to read the brief story of my experience, and I hope this helps others understand how questionable this whole company is, and how the managers are filled with nothing but lies. They don't care about you, they care about how much money you're pumping in for them. ~Staying out of the rain and snow for good!

I was an owner in the Quantum division which Mike Putnam runs. I began in advertising, which is really what you guys are, door to door with books. I have worked in cydcor, clearance and on many other campaigns. I was promoted to a*s MAN twice in two divisions and ran a very successful office in a small market. I actually left with 60K or so in the bank after one year and paying myself 50K that year. This is the best I have ever seen. Had I stayed, I am sure I would have lost money eventually with the ebb and flow of the business. Your just a spin off. I am a graduate of college and now of law school and will soon be an attorney, so dont take this lightly, I am thorough in my investigations and analysis. Before I start. I have searched the Wisconsin corporation database, monster, google and career builder. NO RECORD OF CAUSE MARKETING. I did get a website, but it was down, apparently you were not paying the bill, just my guess. Either way you are not incorporated and have not been for three years. Also, 260K, lets not lie to ourselves here. You are more than likely inflating your GROSS PROFIT. Which does not include money back to home office which is almost if not more than 50% in costs for the cards. Money to any charity you represent which should be around 5-10%. Also, your in a small market. And advertising, office expenses, administrator etc. After all of this your net profit was probably around 30-40K, of which you pay yourself 500$ a week. How do I know this. You exist most likely partnered up with another advertising office or cydcor office. In a small market in a college area, you have 10 guys on the books througout the year if your lucky and grow up to 25 in the summer. You said nothing about outside deals, this creates a greater problem, in the bus for three years maybe one as a manager and you cannot promote. I promoted two in my first year. And still made money. Luckily both failed before they could suck me dry. Why do I respond. Because I know you and the lie. I know I was not looking for hard working ppl, I was looking for heartbeats and stupidity. SOmeone to make me money!!!!. Eventually I realized that the ebb and flow of the business makes it difficult unless your willing to promote out tons of ppl and get on a VP's good side. Frankly, I am not sure if you are even promoted yet as you have no incorporation records or adds of your own. You definatelly are not netting a large amount of money because you have no outside deals, you cannot afford your own adds and you are not in your own building with all recruits to yourself. RESPOND, I DARE YOU. YOU GAVE YOUR NAME give your website, where are your adds. What is your EIN. Angela. I hired many an administrater in my time with the various offices I was with. Come on now. You know you are not weeding ppl out. You are a salesperson as well. Your goal is to get ppl through the door. At whatever cost. Examples. What do you guys do? We do marketing campaigns with fortune 500 companies. Client meetings etc. Lets leave out what we really do. SALES and SOlicitation. Do I get Insurance? The manager will discuss this in interviews. Come on I have a graphics design degree and want to use it? There may be oppenings later, I will just schedule you for an interview..... Come on Angela. Either you are Ezyk's girl or you are misled. Like I said. RESPOND.

My name is Ian Ezyk, I'm an owner in Cause Marketing Solutions, a division of this company that helps non profit oginzations. I talk to Derek Colontonio almost everyday and who ever wrote this crap is just pissed off because they don't have the work ethic that it takes to be successful in any business nevermind a busness that is a true reflection of yourself! I love what I do, there is nothing more rewarding than helping people get financial freedom and independence through a proven system. I will never work for anyone ever again. My tax papers show how much I make and I don't know any other person at the age of 26 years old who have made 266,000.00 there third year in a company. I'm in for life and everyone who has stuck with me has been extremely successful like Derek Colontonio, Paulo Frattini,Paul G,Larry T and all the VP's are great mentors and do nothing but help people who have great work ethic,attituds,and student mentalatys run sucessful busnesses for themselves. I'm leaving you out there with my phone#1-317-363-7646 please call any time with questions. My name is Natalie, I am Ian's administrator. In the time that I've been in the business, I admit we have done thousands of interviews only because it takes a big pull of people to find someone with the work ethic I see in Ian. Coming into the business can be hard, only because of the long hours, but if you see what you can profit in the long hall you would stay too. The person out there that pretended to be Derek Colontonio is ridiculous to think that every thing is a lie. I have spent time at his house, with his children and wife. Ian runs 5 companies in 5 different states, and loves what he does and would never take back a single day in the field selling "coupon books" to raise money for children in wheelchairs. Not all proceeds go to the charities and that is true, but we did raise over 3 million dollars last year alone. Call Ian's personal cellphone at any time to discuss any of this. We would be more than happen to talk to anybody about the company that we both love!!!

I worked in the office in Seattle when Wincor came. I would have to say I was never as excited about Cydcor as any of the people in this office was, but I still stuck around for a few months. The campaign we had (even though is was a "juicy" AT&T deal) absolutely sucked and very few people in the office made any money. The only reason I didn't go broke is because I was living off money I had saved. Once I left, I realized that I had no money left in savings and I would have been better off collecting unemployment! The campaign was supposed to save people money. However, when I brought up the fact that if a business had two lines, they didn't save anything--in fact, their bill would be higher due to some weird FCC charge, my owner told me not to tell people that. And, she didn't want me to tell anyone in the office. Nice, huh? In the end, one of the other girls in the office and I would secretly go off into the field together (ironically, we made more money working together than we ever did individually), and eventually we both quit. We occasionally reminisce about our days at Cydcor and how much it sucked. It's actually quite funny now. The only good thing I would say about this experience is that I know I can now sell anything if I absolutely had to.

This is in response to chad, I am curious is you are really a manager. Your entire response was just one big impact that is told to every employee every morning. Another question, why do you not work there anymore. Are you lazy as well? Why don't you back up your statements without quoting the same bullshit that every manager in every division says over and over. In response that no one can make it if they do not open their own sales business, I am sure that many doctors, lawyers, college professors, real business executives, and famous actors would disagree with you just to name a few. They actually make their money from working hard to get a better education (except actors), instead of learning how to deceive people and become masters at changing the subject. You do it quite well yourself. Instead of actually addressing any of the complaints on this site, you just ignore them and call people lazy and how the opportunity is so good. This is not atmosphere and people actually have a chance to respond.

Hi! My name is PJ I was in Jamie Hepp's office in Los Angeles, which is said to be the best and most productive offices in Cydcor. And it was...I came into the Quill campaign where, everything was perfect! I was making about 400 bucks a day and I had saved up 3,000 in the first 4 months of working there!!! I was so thrilled. I believed in the "opportunity" more than anyone else...yet..I did not build a team or have any leaders until I was one year into it. AND THAT WAS BY DEFAULT! So my leader, who was Jackie Nguyen (a long time employee who apparantley made so much money that she quit. And then came back!....and then quit again.) So she got "promoted" to management and got brainwashed as well as 5 of her leaders, to move to Seattle to start the AT&T campaign...let me tell you. I had quit smoking and drinking and I finnaly felt like I had comtrol of my future, so I went along. Well...we get there, and...it sucked. We were told that it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy, and that we can build a team in to time because Seattle has such a high unemployment rate (although it rose even after we got there) and that "JUICY" people would be part of our crew. Well...no. NOT TRUE! We ended up only saving people 29 cents a MONTH, and getting kicked out of so many buildings and offices that ... well... Wincor...went under. And so did I. My 3,000 credit in my precious account was brought down to -4,000.00...and I ended up exactly where I came from. I remember talking to Jackie before she quit she told me that it was "different" before...and that she was dissappointed with this time around. Well you know what I say?! F*** that. I want my time back that I lost in Seattle for a year...I want the money I was promised to make. I want to sue the living CRAP out of these people. Just tell me where to show up...I will be there. Respectfully Submitted,

Derek I met you at a training last year in Los Angeles. If this really is Derek Colontonio and what you said here is true I want to talk to you. You can contact me via Rip-off Report[DELETED] [Place your comments below and be sure to include your FULL contact information so Rip-off Report can contact you.] Get in touch with me. Chad Los Angeles

Derek I met you at a training last year in Los Angeles. If this really is Derek Colontonio and what you said here is true I want to talk to you. You can contact me via Rip-off Report[DELETED] [Place your comments below and be sure to include your FULL contact information so Rip-off Report can contact you.] Get in touch with me. Chad Los Angeles

Derek I met you at a training last year in Los Angeles. If this really is Derek Colontonio and what you said here is true I want to talk to you. You can contact me via Rip-off Report[DELETED] [Place your comments below and be sure to include your FULL contact information so Rip-off Report can contact you.] Get in touch with me. Chad Los Angeles

Derek I met you at a training last year in Los Angeles. If this really is Derek Colontonio and what you said here is true I want to talk to you. You can contact me via Rip-off Report[DELETED] [Place your comments below and be sure to include your FULL contact information so Rip-off Report can contact you.] Get in touch with me. Chad Los Angeles

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit. Here is my story: As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary. So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process. As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter). Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them. But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG! When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college. As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money! Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure. My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards. My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits. Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis. So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money. I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money. WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures. I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids. I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago. This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time. Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married. Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor. As a message from a VP (ready to quit)... GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit. Here is my story: As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary. So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process. As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter). Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them. But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG! When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college. As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money! Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure. My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards. My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits. Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis. So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money. I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money. WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures. I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids. I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago. This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time. Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married. Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor. As a message from a VP (ready to quit)... GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit. Here is my story: As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary. So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process. As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter). Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them. But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG! When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college. As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money! Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure. My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards. My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits. Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis. So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money. I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money. WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures. I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids. I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago. This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time. Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married. Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor. As a message from a VP (ready to quit)... GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit. Here is my story: As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary. So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process. As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter). Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them. But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG! When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college. As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money! Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure. My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards. My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits. Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis. So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money. I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money. WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures. I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids. I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago. This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time. Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married. Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor. As a message from a VP (ready to quit)... GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This response is going directly to James from Pittsburgh. You got involved with Cydcor and think it is a scam. Well let me ask you this my friend. Where did coffee come from 15 years ago? Did anyone ever imagine that they would be paying $4.00 a cup for coffee today. Cydcor is the same thing. It is an entrepreneurial opportunity for entrepreneurial people. If you are just looking for a job I have sad news for you my friend. Social Security is going to be broke by 2017. You aren't going to get any. Also a 401K is the biggest scam in the world because if you think about it the government takes more than 100 times the amount of taxes later in your life than they would if you paid taxes on the money when you are young.If you don't learn how to save money and work for yourself you are going to be a MCSenior at 70. cydcor offers a fantastic, yet tough opportunity for people who have the traits of a Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Michael Dell, etc. Everyone else that is hoping that the government or their company will support them when they retire I feel f**king sorry for you because you are a complete and total loser for believing that. I don't work for Cydcor anymore but I am involved in another entrepreneurial opportunity right now and that is the only thing that I will ever do because it is the only way to succeed in the United States today. For those of you that believe that "a job" is the best way to go I feel sorry for you but do what you want to do. When I am retired at age 40 and you are still hating your job I will be laughing at your pathetic a*s.

Terrance: The only thing you failed to mention is that the system is really nothing more than a clever distraction. People who work for DS-Max are so inundated with outlandish propositions of wealth that they simply dismiss the fact that they are door-to-door salesmen that fit into the lower tax brackets. Who does this work out for? DS-Max. The actuall success rate for DS-Max hopefuls is so dismal that it barely warrants a mere mention of any type of opportunity - yet more time is spent in DS-Max promoting this "opportunity" than focusing on the actual job at hand. You're right; it is genious - akin to every other crafty scam.

okay, I don't know everything about the company, in fact, I never even made it to leadership, but this is how things seem to work, according to my research (and honestly, I have nothing against the company, and I think the system is genius). You first get there, barely knowing what's going on, due the vauge description they give you. If you show potential, the leader will go about, and decide to retrain you, and hopefully add you to his/her team. If you make it past the training days without being cut, your next objective is to move up to leadership. If you're uncapable of moving up to leadership within 3-5 weeks, then chances are the manager will encourage you to quit, because you're no good to him, and don't show enough potential to help your leader. Once you've hit leadership, it's now your objective to train 5 people to become leaders, so you can move up to assistant management. At this point you're fired up. They promise you that once you train 5 people to leadership, you'll soon be on your way to making 6 digit figures, and be financially independant. The biggest problem is that you spend a majority of this time living so poorly, that you're barely scraping by in life, and probably can't afford your own car, you can barely afford to pay your phone bills, and you're probably living at a managers house or apartment just to make ends meet. They claim that it'll take 6-8 months to get to assistant management, but in reality it usually takes between 1 and 2 years. Okay, you've moved up to assistant management, this step is pretty easy, and you even get base pay plus extra bonuses. Now it's on to management. This part I'm uncertain of, but from what I understand, this is how it works. You're making some good cash now, but I've heard ex-owners claim it's not as good as they initially claim. You may be making 150,000-200,000 in revenue, but half of that is expenses out of your own pocket, plus you're working 80-90 hours per week. So maybe the new typical owner makes 60-70 thousand dollars a year... (pretty good, but not great considering the hours you're putting in). Now it's your goal to get 5 people up to management, then you can become a regional director. As a regional director, you will truly become financially independant, and you may not even have to work so many hours. But... they initially claimed that leadership was the most grueling process, and after leadership, everything would be smooth sailing. Then, you realize that the jump from manager to regional director will take you about 5 years. So you're essentially stuck working 85 hours a week for 5 years as a manager. Now this is a bit much, but you eventually move to regional director. This is where my knowledge ends. I'm guessing even as regional director, you still have quite a bit of work to do. But they still want more, so your next step is moving up to V.P. Anyways, see where I'm going. I admit that the system is truly genius. Remember that in the same way the leader tells the distributor how great it is to be a leader, the manager tells the leaders how great it is to be a manager. While talking to ex-managers, it's really not that great being a manager, and the amount of money they make is over-exaggerated as well. You have to remember that everyone is bs'ing everyone below them to a certain extent. And I'm also talking about the typical manager/leader/individual here. I know there's a lot of people who love the system, and have prospered in the system. But these are only the truly charismatic and/or natural born salemen that really do care about people despite all the rejection they've faced by going through the whole process. Again, this is from my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Having worked for both a ds-max and a granton marketing company, both use the same mlm systems, I can tell you that this isn't for 99% of the population. I had previous sales experience before joining the ds-max company. I came in with confidence knowing how to sell. In my second day of training, I was the top seller in the office, but my leader flipped out the next day when he was out with me, and he claimed I was being too aggressive... Of course I wasn't, but I feel he was just jealous of me. I did exactly what he told me to do. Anyways, he already had 4 people under him in leadership, and one about to move up to leadership, so he didn't have any need for me, since you need 5 people under you to get promoted to management. Anyways, despite being a lying loser, he was also one of the top sellers in the nation (according to the bulletin report), and he only made 500 dollars a week (working 6 days a week). Pretty sad that I outsold him in my second day of training. After getting fired from the ds-max company, I went to a granton marketing company. I did well at first, ringing bell 3 times in my first week. But then I got moved to a new campaign, and wasn't successful at all, only selling 3-4 coupons a day. My manager, who tried to act charismatic, would get all mad at me because I wasn't performing as well as I did the first week, and told me that he could find someone else who could take my territory and ring the bell everyday. I never even got a chance to improve, and my uncharismatic leader chased me away. Anyways, I've had more success and made a lot more selling other products in the past for real sales companies. Ds-max and granton marketing expect their people to be able to sell anything to anyone, without knowing anything about the products they give you. They tell you that it's all about your attitude, but how can you sell something that you don't know anything about, and how can you learn when they pressure you to quit if you go a week without ringing the bell. Anyways, a majority of the leaders lack charisma, and a very small percentage make it to leadership.

Yeah right Chad, we're lazy, lmao, that's why we/I was in the office or in the field at least 13 hours a day, 6 days a week and I went in to help do inventory on Sundays. Yeah, I'm lazy ha ha ha! Yeah, fantastic morals and integrity, that's why there is so much sleeping your way to the top, right? That's why some newspapers want their money up front to run ads because so many maxers have had their ads ran and then skipped out. Not to mention all the rents that they have skipped out on as well. Morals, right? Morals, like what, lying. Where is that defined as a moral? Tell me where along the line you're not lied to. It starts with the ads that are blatant lies, even to the extent that they deceive the newspapers into putting them into the wrong category. Then, you show up for an interview and you're fed more lies. Next the day of o, where you're taken into the field, sometimes miles and miles away so the brainwashing can begin, where you can be told about the so ~ called opportunity. Remember that word, opportunity, because I will get back to it. By the way, you're not paid for your time on this day. Next, you're brought bacc to the office where they pretend, {lie} to make you feel as though they MIGHT allow you to come bacc and work for them. So finally, you're, "accepted." Your reward? You GET to be bacc at the office the next day at 7am for 2~3 hours of unpaid noise. {That's when the brainwashing is continuing.} You then proceed to your 9 hour day of peddling. This you do 6 days a week. Okay, so you sticc it out for awhile and you're doing okay financially, MAYBE, so you get another reward. That comes at the point when they feel that you're substantially brainwashed to the point that you'll do what they say. You become a leader. A leader is their way of taking the financial burden off of themselves because now you get to be the one paying for the new people who would like to try this, "opportunity." You have successfully been brainwashed because all you've done for this period of time is be around them for 13 hours a day. You get home you're tired. You don't have the time or energy to hear, let alone, discuss the concerns of the people that are concerned about you. Besides, when you have had a bad day, you've came bacc to the office for some more intense brainwashing about how to stay positive and not be negged out. Now's when you're doing even worse financially because you're obligated to pay the new people 40~50 dollars out of your profit, which sometimes there are days when you don't even make that much so you are dipping into your own savings. Of course this process is a catch~22 because for you to move up to the next position you have to successfully retain the people that you are training and you have to use that old ~ fashion Chad moral, lying, to accomplish this goal. Okay, as I promised, let me get bacc to this great? opportunity that you're supposed to attain in 8~12 months. {By the way, you were with them for 2 years and didn't become an owner like they say will happen? Is this to make us all assume that you are the one that must be lazy because with the morals that they have, they must be being honest when they say it only takes that long.} {I can already guess the excuses you'll come up with to explain why it didn't happen for you!} The supposed opportunity is that you can become an owner of your own DS Scam, I mean Max office. In fact, that is not a lie. You can have your own office. Well at least you can change the name of an existing office. In fact, this scam is very good at changing names, {usually to avoid prosecution.} Just like when you become a leader what that really entails is paying more out of your poccet, so does becoming an owner. You now pay the costs of the building {furniture, lights, etc.} You also pay for the ads and these things called hub fees. You are required to use their people to take care of the things covered under the hub fees but, it's, "your," business, right? You completely have to play by their rules. Many, many so ~ called owners end up in debt, divorced and without their children, friends, and/or family because of the required energy and capital it takes just to have your name on the door. If you own something, that makes it yours and you should be allowed to run it the way you choose. That is not the case here. Many, many, "owners," are yelled at and disrespected on a regular basis. You can be yelled at by anyone. I would prefer to not be yelled at by the people who's bills I am contributing to, greedy bastards! They even take control of the money you make. They say that they do this because they want you to constantly save for a new office but, I suspect that it has more to do with the interest they are earning on your money. Oh yeah, good lucc getting your money bacc when you need it or decide to leave. There is much more information from ex ~"owners," available on this website. It certainly isn't what it's cracced up to be, {lied about.} Oh yeah, corporate America rips off people, references ~ Enron, Worldcom, etc. Well let me tell you, DS Scam makes ripping people off their main objective. References are available on this website under DS Max, dsmax, ds-max, cydcor, granton, innovage and even under some individual offices, like, yasny. See what I mean about their name changing, lying, chameleon abilities. This website does a great job at exposing frauds and ds scam is no exception. Unfortunately, their chameleon abilities prevents them from being thoroughly exposed because this site has them listed under so many different aliases so it's hard to see the full extent of the problem. What also makes it hard is that, too many people end up just adding on to the reports instead of writing about their own experiences. If you have your own ds scam story to share, please start your own thread and then also add on to the other threads so a more accurate count can be made. Also, in your title, if you include the aliases listed above plus any more that you know of, that will get it added to all the threads that exist. Sorry, bacc to the facts of ripping people off, how about the shoddy products and services that unsuspecting consumers buy in to? It's a well known ds scam saying, "Sell the sizzle and not the steak." They also said not to be product dependant and they had stories about how great they were at the business because they managed to sell broken stuff or expired services. Somehow that made them feel good about their sales ability. {Morals, integrity, not ripping people off???} You're right when you say that the business is not for everyone. It's not right for any self~respecting individual and yeah, I allowed myself to be caught up in it. It's easy to do. I'm just thankful to have my self ~ respect bacc. You said yourself that they lie because if they told the truth, you wouldn't have come bacc. Here's your quote, "The business is not for everybody which is why the interviews are done the way they are. If they had told me that I was coming in and going business to business for a full day I never would have come in. You later stated that you feel sorry for people who will get a divorce because they can't control their finances. I'd be willing to bet that with ds scam, the divorce and break ~ up rate is extremely high for many reasons. One is like you said, "not being able to control your finances." With ds scam, there are sometimes no finances to control and oh yeah, they like to keep control of your earned income. Secondly, there is a strain on marriages and all relationships because of the time spent away and the propaganda that you are brainwashed to believe. You had also better believe that people in this company are just as expendable, if not more so than anywhere else. I guess that's about it except to add that I'm not at all surprised to see that you couldn't go one whole post without referring to us, who thankfully escaped the system, as names and suggesting we do something that we would rather leave for you. Still lmao!!!

For everyone that has put up derrorgatory comments on this site I can only call you one thing. LAZY!! I worked with the company for almost two years and granted I did not make it into management but I would never say anything bad about the company or the people that work there. Everyone I ever met had fantastic morals and the highest amount of integrity which is a lot more than I can say about corporate america which rips people off on a daily basis. References-Enron, Worldcom, etc. The business is not for everybody which is why the interviews are done the way they are. If they had told me that I was coming in and going business to business for a full day I never would have come in. At one point during my day I considered leaving but decided to stick it out. For you people that are too good for a company like this because you have a degree I feel sorry for you because entrepreneurial opportunities are the only way to go today since Social Security will be bankrupt by the time I retire and the working age will be extended to age 70. Or when you are in your mid 40-s and getting a divorce because you can't control your finances or one day your boss comes in and says thanks for your time but we don't need you anymore. I met many people like that during my time in the field who had these so called "good jobs" and were miserable. I am putting this up because somebody showed me this site and I laughed that there were people out there that were complete dumbasses. Go suck a donkey d**k is what I have to say to everyone who has put up a negative report about Cydcor or DS-Max

People who make it through college usually get good jobs and don't consider their money wasted. As a college grad myself, I will say that your apology is unneccesary - save it for the poor saps you leave in financial ruin. I will also say that many college students have to work their asses off to get through. Most of the people I graduated with took out loans, got scholarships for busting their asses in highschool, joined ROTC, or worked two or three jobs while attending classes. Your attempts to discredit the amount of work they've done humor me. They are entitled to an above average income because they are capable of above average jobs. You claim to have a hard time understanding this, yet you think DS-Max owners and VP's are entitled to above average incomes? Why? Because they are better liars? DS-Max (Or its companies) attempts to brainwash people into thinking that college is a waste of money, and that they can provide all the real knowledge anyone needs. The excuses for not completing college are a familiar theme in DS-Max. Interesting how they (drop-out excuses) are given merit, yet when an employee inevitably becomes broke and destitute they get blamed and judged for leaving. It is too bad you scoffed at your dean for suggesting the "college experience" and had a closed mind about it there Tim. Sticking it out might have helped you see beyond the carrot, and look at the company objectively. It could have helped you see what others (COWS, college grads, ex-rhinos, etc.) already have; that DS-Max is a scam set up only to benefit a few. Instead, you became a part of their system, and your mixture of defensive/offensive arguments serve not only as attempts to make a point, but to re-affirm your allegiance to "the opportunity." You must be making somebody else alot of money! Have fun with your little revolution.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but clearance is not the financial dream you paint it. I've had the opportunity to work along side two clearance offices in the same building, one across a business park and I have met several clearance types at rallys. Any time clearance and a cydcor office share space there are two spins happening at once. This happens so that all the clearance guys won't get negged out when they see the highrollers in cydcor get their cash. 1) The clearance bell gets changed to a production amount instead of the normal $100. 2) The communications guys get taken aside by their owners and told not to let on to the clearance folks what kind of commission per sale they earn. Most people in clearance are lucky to make over 50 dollars a day. I don't mean to thumb my nose at clearance because I have merched it. One time a campaign we had was just to complicated for me to do. So clearance payed my bills. The reality is, very few guys with college degrees will do clearance.They feel it is beneath them. Hell I have one at first I felt the same way. But you need a proffessional type division like cydcor with higher commission earnings to retain college grads. I hope you get out of this mlm cult scam. Even if you make VP all you'll be is the rich one at the expense of 1000's who will go inot financial ruin. Your business is hurting people in the pocket book around the globe and the world would be a better place with out it.

I AM VERY SORRY, FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE REPORTS WHO SPENT ALOT OF MONEY ON COLLEGE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF US COME FROM BLUE-COLLAR BEGINNINGS. I AM VERY THANKFUL I FOUND THIS "OPPORTUNITY". I THANK MY FATHER FOR MY WORK ETHIC AND MY MOTHER FOR HER STUDENT MENTALITY. I SPENT 3 YEARS IN THE ARMY AS AN COMBAT ENGINEER ONLY TO GET THE G-I BILL. I PURSUED A DEGREE IN GEOLOGY FOR ANOTHER 2 YEARS. I BEGAN TO REALIZE I DIDN'T HAVE THE PATIENCE FOR THE LAB WORK. I ALSO FELT I WAS TAKING ALOT OF UNESSACARY CLASSES. I COMPLAINED TO THE DEAN, HE STATED IT WAS PART OF THE WHOLE "COLLEGE EXPERIENCE". I DIDN'T FEEL I NEEDED TO WAIST THOUSANDS OF MY DOLLARS AND COUNTLESS HOURS OF MY TIME LEARNING PHILOSOPHY,AND RELATED SUBJECTS. I FELT AND STILL FEEL THAT A COLLEGE DEGREE ONLY PROVES THAT YOU HAVE AN ABILITY TO LEARN. BUT, ALOT PEOPLE FEEL IT ENTITLES THEM TO AN ABOVE AVERAGE INCOME. I HAVE AND STILL INTERVIEW PEOPLE WITH A COLLEGE DEGREE. THE FRESH ONES STILL FEEL THEIR OWED SOMETHING AND THE OLD ONES JUST NEED TO PAY BILLS. MY POINT IS I KNOW IF YOU GIVE ME THIRTY TOOL SETS FOR 10 BUCKS AND 40 EDUCATIONAL BOOKS FOR 5 BUCKS I WILL BLOW IT OUT IN A 8 HOUR DAY. THE MAJORITY OF THE EX-EMPLOYEE'S HAVE PROBABLY NEVER HAD A PAPER ROUTE OR MOWED LAWNS TO MAKE MONEY. IT SEEMS AS IF MOST PEOPLE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE SECRET TO THE BUSINESS. WORK YOUR BUTT-OFF AND TEACH OTHERS THE SAME. THIS IS AMERICA NOT CUBA PEOPLE ARE MEANT TO LIVE BETTER THAN OTHERS. I WAS RAISED IN A CAPATALIST,REPUBLICAN FAMILY. ALOT OF THE PROBLEMS EXPRESSED ARE LACK OF MONEY AND A MISUNDERSTANDING OF ATMOSPHERE. I NEVER HAVE BEEN BROKE AND OF COURSE I DON'T WANT DISSENTING VOICES IN THE ROOM. WE ARE TRYING TO START A REVOLUTION HERE. NOT LIKE CASTRO AND CHE BUT A CAPATLIST ONE.

It's amazing are you sure we didn't work in the same office. My experience has been exactly the same, but I worked in another dsmax so called unaffiliated office. For so long I would question the way they do business, but I was either told I was being a victim and analyzing, or not being a leader. The only thing is, if you truly listen and do what they tell you to, you have to leave.

So now that I have left I can truly say that I am a leader, (and oh I forgot I am now a cow as well and loving every minute of it) Now though I am one angry cow. How do they get away with it. It just infuriates me, because
They do nothing but manipulate your mind, get you to work for free, building their business. They say they care about you and want to help you become successful, and the whole entire time they do nothing but screw you. And not to mention the brain washing that they do.

I just don't understand that for all the offices under dsmax, and the billions of dollars they rake in every year, How all these offices, can be considered seperate. That's not how they projected it on my day of O or on my premanagement mtg. One Huge company of happy people in over 98 countries with 10,000 offices, with 115,000 independant distributors.

It's very frustrating to work your tail off and support a company, and watch your friends do the same and in the end you find out the truth. You are just being used. Every single person. So whether you are just starting out or are a manager: you have no real job security and no chance of being truly successful, because what they do to people is wrong. I don't care how much money you make. Because these people really believe that this is a good legitimate opportunity, and it is far from it. I know that what goes around comes around, and I just hope that with knife sets and calculators in hand dsmax gets what they deserve.