Complaint Review: Fifth Third Bank - Springfield Ohio

"I suppose if you maintain that properly maintaining a register will constitute not recording deposits until they have cleared, then Laura should have only recorded the $100 that was immediately available at that time and seen that the availability after all outstanding checks was not enough for $67."

Yes, Will_K_MI that is correct. I knew you understood.

Geez... talk about a huge deal over semantics... the bottom line = yes, I knew I had 2 checks outstanding, I just thought they would not clear until the deposit had cleared since it was Friday night and they closed in 20 min.  I was wrong... however, I am not a child. I knew they could play these bookeeping games but thought considering the fact that I have had the checking account for over ten years with NO overdrafts at all that they might value me as a customer and credit the deposit before crediting the outstanding checks since they had both in hand... wrong again... I did close my account. However, in doing so, I met a very professional bank manager at the Tuttle Rd location who IMMEDIATELY saw my point after looking at my banking history. He apologized for the shabby treatment I received and refunded the $33....even though I was closing the account. The fees are $25 for the first and $33 for the second overdraft which were the two bills I had paid that they said hadn't cleared. Why wouldn't the teller know they had cleared? Because they hadn't.  I won't make that mistake again... live and learn is exactly right... on with the show - this is it!

I disagree with your response and assert that your refutation is based on logical falacies. My responses are indented below your statements:

You state: "1) complaintant is not a word"

- Complainant is a word, complaintant would be a mispelling. I apologize for the extra T.
- Regardless of mispelling, I think for any reasonable person the context was clear enough that I was referencing Laura.
- Even if complaintant is regarded as not being a word, the point does nothing to invalidate my point that a properly maintained register would not have shown that an overdraft would occur.

2) A 5:30pm deposit should not be considered immediately available.

- As I said, Fifth Third makes the first $100 of check available immediately. The relevant point is that it is not as simple as it is or is not immediately available. It is important to understand how your bank works in terms of availability of deposits, and it seems Laura was not. Relying on teller information is another story in terms of understanding available balance, because it may or may not include the portion of the deposit which is immediately available and does include pending debit card transactions and does not include checks.
- But none of that relates to how well a register would tell a customer that they will be getting an overdraft.
- These rules will vary some from bank to bank and from time to time, I know that in the time I had my Fifth Third account the rules had changed - and I know that I had different rules at Charter One. In particular, if I was depositing payroll at Charter One, the entire amount (if it was in-state) was immediately available, but Fifth Third treats payroll the same as any other check.

3) A properly maintained register would have reflected the $400 in outstanding checks that Laura failed to take into consideration.

- A properly maintained register would reflect a negative balance before Laura's deposit, but that is not when the overdraft occurred.
- Laura made a deposit, at which point the register would show a positive balance. Laura then made a $67 purchase, after which the register would have shown a positive balance. The overdraft occurred because of funds availability, which is not part of register maintenance if you input transactions at the time you make them (and this can also be said of the writing of checks).    
- I suppose if you maintain that properly maintaining a register will constitute not recording deposits until they have cleared, then Laura should have only recorded the $100 that was immediately available at that time and seen that the availability after all outstanding checks was not enough for $67.

An alternative may have been to cash the check at a check cashing place, which usually charges a fee, and then deposit the cash and/or use the cash at the store...

And my point is that I know of at least one bank where this would not have resulted in an overdraft because they allow 24 hours to bring a balance positive, which would have happenned the next business day when the deposit had cleared.


Now, if I recall my Fifth Third overdraft fees - which may have changed since I was aware of them (and I am well aware that they change policy all the time) the overdraft fee they charge is on a scale where it increases based on the numebr of overdrafts you've had in the past 6 months, and I think that scale starts or started at $29.   

"Coast, how do you figure that??? You are wrong on this one"

What was I wrong about? My statement, "A properly maintained register would have reflected the $400 in outstanding checks that Laura failed to take into consideration" is the same as your statement, "If the OP had maintained an accurate checkbook register, the $400 in oustanding checks would have already been deducted from the available balance." Apparently you took my statement out of context because we agree on this fact.

When I wrote "reflect" I was referring to the fact the the $400 would already have been deducted from the available balance.

If you maintained an accurate checkbook register, you would never have to ask anyone what your available balance is.



Your statements just confirm the fact that you do not maintain an accurate checkbook register.



Therefore, you will have the same exact problems with ANY bank you go to.



These bank procedures are very common.



And, the bank has absolutely no way to know if you have checks outstanding. Only you could know this.



Common sense here.

I have to clarify that I knew I had outstanding checks that had not cleared... this was why I asked for the available balance. I am not a dolt. 
- If you keep a register you should not have needed to ask for your available balance. 

I thought since the bank doesn't credit any deposits until the next business day, surely they couldn't clear an outstanding check until the next business day...
- Oh I get it now, you were trying to "float" funds.  You figured that even though you wrote the check it probably would not clear so you can spend money that you really didn't have. 

I don't know how long you have had a bank account, but it sounds like you are fairly new at this(if not then there is really no excuse).  First checks are NOT like Debit Cards.  A debit card may show up as "pending" during the day if the merchant submits the debt.  But checks/ACH transactions get processed in a batch during the evening/overnight processing.  This batch processing may also occur with some Debit Card transactions depending on the Merchant.  So it is very possible that at 5:30 you were past the Deposit Cut-Off time for that day but the daily postings had not occurred yet.  So the teller at the bank had no way to see into the future and see that a check was going to get submitted. 

So at your next bank you need to be well aware of their Funds Availability Policy as well as any Cut-Off times they have for deposits(note that you may also find that Teller Deposits may have an earlier Cut-Off time than ATM deposits).

Now when a check is presented the bank does not just "hold it" until you have enough money in your account.  If you have enough money they pay it, if you don't they do one of two things.  They either pay the check and charge you an Overdraft Fee, or they return the check unpaid and charge you a Return Check Fee.  These two fees are often the same so there is really no advantage one way or the other for the bank in terms of the fees that they charge.  But if they return a check unpaid you then have to deal with that company who may also charge you a returned check fee, as well as if this was for a bill additional interest and late fees.  So while you may not like paying $33 to the bank for the overdraft fee, that is better than paying $33 to the bank for an Returned Check fee, and additional fees to the company who you wrote the check to.

The key things you should learn from this.

Don't rely on the float.  That is once you use your debit card or write the check treat that money is gone and do not spend it.    The way to do this is of course keeping an accurate written register

Know your banks Funds Availability policy as well as Cut-Off times.  Then Verify that your deposits have posted before you try to spend the money.

If you fail to adjust the way of your account management we will be expecting your RipOff report on your next bank. 

I have to clarify that I knew I had outstanding checks that had not cleared... this was why I asked for the available balance. I am not a dolt.  I am just cash challenged.  I thought since the bank doesn't credit any deposits until the next business day, surely they couldn't clear an outstanding check until the next business day... wrong... it was Friday evening but still they managed to clear two checks within minutes of my asking the current balance - (or so they say)  I had the current "available" balance printed and date stamped on the back of my deposit reciept.  This is pure bookeeping manipulation. I did talk to the bank manager and he refused to remove the fee stating the charge was legit. The only power we as consumer's have is to stop doing business at places where there is no customer service or customer loyalty. It's getting harder and harder to find any of that anywhere these days...

Coast,



If the OP had maintained an accurate checkbook register, the $400 in oustanding checks would have already been deducted from the available balance.



When PROPERLY maintaining a checkbook register, a person needs to deduct checks, debits, and charges immediately from the available balance in the register, but hold off on recording deposits until they have cleared.



And, a late afternoon deposit of a check as stated, certainly would not post and be available until at least the next business day.



The bottom line here is that there is no ripoff here. Just another person who cannot figure out how to properly manage a checkbook register.



After all, it's only 3rd grade math we are talking about, right?

Or is it just a lack of discipline?





>>Coast wrote:

"Maintaining a register, the complaintant would have seen his full deposit balance available."



That is an incorrect statement for three reasons:



1) complaintant is not a word



2) A 5:30pm deposit should not be considered immediately available.



3) A properly maintained register would have reflected the $400 in outstanding checks that Laura failed to take into consideration.



The bank employee that gave Laura the current balance had no way of knowing about the $400 in outstanding checks that were later presented for payment. This error is entirely the fault of the account holder.



>>

"Maintaining a register, the complaintant would have seen his full deposit balance available."

That is an incorrect statement for three reasons:

1) complaintant is not a word

2) A 5:30pm deposit should not be considered immediately available.

3) A properly maintained register would have reflected the $400 in outstanding checks that Laura failed to take into consideration.

The bank employee that gave Laura the current balance had no way of knowing about the $400 in outstanding checks that were later presented for payment. This error is entirely the fault of the account holder.

I must respectfully disagree with the previous commenter. Maintaining a register, the complaintant would have seen his full deposit balance available. His register would have told him that his balance is sufficient to cover his groceries.

Unfortunately though the bank practices described are common. Fifth Third makes available the first $100 of checks depositted on the day they are depositted. Many banks do this.

The overdraft fee could have been reduced with Fifth Third's overdraft protection, which can be done by triggering an automated cash advance from a linked Fifth Third credit card - if you have one and have it set up as such, for which a smaller fee is charged... This can be particularly helpful in situations where a greater number of smaller debits would result in multiple overdraft fees.

Overdraft protection is also available with no fee if overdrafts are covered by a linked savings account.

If you use a Fifth Third credit card for overdraft protection, be wary - Fifth Third also changes the rules without notice on their cards. I experienced this on my own Fifth Third account, my initial credit was $1500 and it was originally all available for cash advance, but then they changed the rules to make only half available for cash advance - and instead of a transfer fee, the timing resulted in overdraft fees.

Another advice is to call customer service, as they will sometimes work with you and in some circumstances reverse fees as courtesy or when a rule change occurred and caused fees before notification of the change was sent. I found that to be the case. It is still an inconvenience.

In the end, though, I must agree that Fifth Third seems prone to manipulating the rules for their own profit. As I said, many banks do the same thing. But I didn't say all banks do. I now bank at Huntington Bank, and they do not perform manipulation for the sake of generating fees - in fact, they actually give you a full business day from when you incur a negative balance to bring the balance back positive without any fees!! You do have alternatives to living with banking ripoffs.

If you maintained a check register you would have known that you had less than $60 instead of over $400. Not a rip off.