Complaint Review: Freetricity - Hemet California

Court update: I had promissed to report the outcome of the Oct.2 trial. I am sorry to say that this is just an update. As has been the standard with Freetricity, Carl came to court with nothing but excuses and begging for it to be delayed. Starting in Jan. Carl has been telling anyone that would listen that he was suing me. Since that never happened. I finally filed on him and had an Aug. court date. He avoided that by dodging the certified mail summons sent by the court. I then got the Oct. court date and Carl was served by an actual process server. Due to Carl dodging the Aug. date the Alabama distributor was able to file against Carl, have him served by the same process server, and get the same Oct court date. That allowed us both to be there when Carl came in alone and claimed that he had just found out about the trial three days before. He had no idea about it. The judge sort of smacked that down however me and the other plaintiff had received advice from the court to list both Carl and the company since he had used an alias when setting it up. It turns out that this is bad advice and the judge granted Carl the continuance he asked for based on that incorrect title line. New court date of Nov 6. where I am sure Carl will again try some sort of trick. Of course the delays have sort of worked out for me so far. Flying is no real trouble for me or the Alabama distributor and the golf is great out there year round. We had a very nice round while we were there this time. So we will just keep showing up and reporting Nov. 6, Dec 6, Jan. Whatever it takes.

I found that there are many, many grades of wind turbines offered- there are home use (least expensive), marine-rated (a lot more expensive) and industrial rated (most expensive). The outputs available vary considerably. I picked the small AirX marine unit (46'', 400 watt) as one that Troy might use in a test if he wished to claim that $10,000 prize. All Troy would then have to do to validate his test conditions would be to have the AirX perform as it is specified to perform to show that the operating environment he had arranged was suitable for all units. One key point I did notice is that the various units I reviewed will specify an output at a specific wind speed, rather than one output for a range of speeds. I would expect the former and all that I had looked at did so. All units had cast aerodynamic housings and some form of nose spinner, and I would expect these features to minimize body-induced air turbulence which would otherwise disturb the turbine blades. Many also had extensions to move the turbine blade airfoils away from any residual body-induced air turbulence. This is probably done to avoid any possible one-per-rev excitation that can cause bad things to eventually happen to the turbine blades. 'Bad' as in 'you don't want to be standing nearby'. One unit had the turbine blade hub and turbine airfoil root sections contoured to blend into the adjacent body, which should achieve the same goal. Most wind turbines will have the turbine blade assembly located upwind of the mounting mast expressly to keep the turbine blades out of the mast's aerodynamic shadow. This avoids a one-per-rev excitation of the blades. HCF will kill anything that is designed to be light and carry loads, especially centrifugal loads. Which brings us back to concerns with body-induced air turbulence. All units I looked at claimed some provision for avoiding turbine blade speeds that could cause centrifugal loads to exceed turbine blade structural limits. One example was a design that furled the unit in high winds. Another example was a unit that had turbine blades that were specified as safe for operation in winds up to 110 mph. I did see some pictures of the 'E2D Windmaster'' at the 'Freetricity'' site and I was not impressed with its boxy-appearing housing (body) shape, and the apparent proximity of that housing's flat front to the turbine blade root sections. No nose spinner was apparent. The turbine blades were hard to judge w/r/t their aerodynamic design. I saw no information w/r/t turbine blade over-speed protection features nor any specified turbine blade maximum wind-speed capability. The 'how it works'' page showed: 'Were sorry ... this page is being updated. Please check back later ....'' I have no idea what this page might convey. I saw a 'Freetricity'' monetary savings example that was based on an above baseline rate of 42 cents per KWH' that yielded a savings of $147/month . Here, the electricity cost is 7 cents per KWH, and there are nobaseline rate' structures here, no account fees here, nor any line service fees here. The only cost is 7 cents per KWH used. I had calculated that my daughter, living in New England, had paid a total effective rate' of 20 cents per KWH. However, her 20 cents per KWH effective rate' was based on 13 cents per KWH used, plus a line delivery charge. So for her savings calculation' I would have to use 13 cents per KWH. This reduces the postulated savings that had been based on '42 cents/KWH' from $147/month to either $24.50/month (here) or $45.50/month (for my daughter). If one spends $1100 and neglects miscellaneous additional installation costs, etc. it would then require 24 to 45 months to recover the expenditure. I never consider any investment that requires an investment recovery timeline that could extend beyond two-years, because two years is as far into the future any of us can realistically see. I did find, for example, a Whisper 500 wind turbine that cost $6450 for 3000 watts output. I would say that this is a far cry from '$20,000 to $30,000'. My two-year investment recovery stipulation would NOT apply, for example, to a sailboat that one would trust for their life when they would use it to venture out onto the ocean. They should REQUIRE their radios, navigation equipment, and especially the boat's bilge pumps to be powered at ALL times. Hence the marine-rated wind turbines, such as the AirX, serve a VERY different purpose that entails a VERY different set of economics. Therefore, the AirX is NOT a toy.

The E2D WindMaster: All E2D wind systems are recommended roof mount with 3 mount options! $1,099 for the 12 volt system 1) A full 5 year warranty 2) All steel construction 3) Powder coated finish 4) Brush-less neodymium permanent magnet alternator 5) Maintenance-free - Only two moving parts 6) Runs virtually silent 7) Includes Xantrex charge controller 8) Includes 12, 24 or 48 volt regulator 9) Includes 12, 24 or 48 volt inverter 10) 3 phase AC out option 11) Prop sizes of 50 inch 60 inch or 70 inch available 12) Start up speed 7 MPH 13) Advertised output 12 - 18 MPH If you're looking for a toy look at the AirX. If you're looking for a real renewable difference maker purchase the E2D WindMaster Ps. Two things you cannot do in this country and Troy has done both: 1) You cannot publish a website for the sole purpose of trying to harm an individual or business without serious legal and financial repercussions. 2) You cannot publish lies, misinformation's and wild accusations without serious legal and financial repercussions. And Troy has already stated several times on several websites that he does not want nor would accept any further shipments

Well Thomas at this point I am not really looking for windmills. I think Carl has sort of put me off of that track for the time. As to what Carl said in his last post about the Windmaster I do need to say that I have no idea if or how well that unit works. I have never seen the Windmaster. It was put out by Carl just a couple of months ago. I bought two 1200w E2d units and one 300w unit. The two 1200w units are the units that I was able to test and that did not work. About Carl taking me to court so far I have no notice of any such action. Carl has stated that he has free legal and has threatend to use it several times but I have no word of it. He says that he is doing it reluctantly but it couldnt be to reluctant as a simple refund would have avoided any trouble at all. I actually think that Carl taking me to court would be the best thing as I do have the units he sent me and several witnesses as to what he said he was sending me. He would just be saving me the trouble of filing myself.

This only ONE example (of many, many, many) and is way less expensive than what I had expected for ''marine'' equipment, which usually costs way more than non-marine equipment. There were simply too many other wind turbines found for me to determine the lower limit, as it were, so consider this merely an example and not a suggestion. Google did return a LOT of listings of many different sizes, features, outputs, and prices. Some did seem a bit large for mounting on a boat. This unit is a bit larger [ Diameter: 46" ] than the unit you had listed, so maybe you would be able to find something smaller & less expensive if you wish. 400 watts at 28 mph and 12VDC suggests 33 amperes. The control electronics seemed comprehensive. Any comments? I did find this interesting: Simple rooftop installation; no tower necessary. "rooftop mounting" seems to refer to 'Oceanside homes & cabins' but you would have to read their full text carefully. There is much more descriptive text if this item interests you. I did not include the dealer name because I am sure there are quite a few. Southwest Wind Power Air X Wind Turbine Marine 400W 12V List Price: $800.00 Our Price: $699.00 Save: $101.00 (13%) Model: AIR X 12V MARINE (AirX) Brand: Southwest Wind Power Availability: In Stock Features Unprecedented 3 YEAR WARRANTY Simple rooftop installation; no tower necessary Carbon Fiber Composite Blades Aircraft quality aluminum alloy castings Exclusive Brush-less neodymium cubic curve alternator Sophisticated internal battery charge regulator Maintenance-free - Only two moving parts Exclusive Auto-brake-feature that slows the AIR to a silent spin when the batteries are charged thus extending bearing life and reducing noise. High Wind Safe Mode - Automatically slows turbine in potentially damaging winds and reduces noise. Neighbor Friendly. Applications Specifications Sailboats - Recreational boating Offshore beacons and remote monitoring equipment Oceanside homes & cabins Water pumping Battery charging Science & education projects Rotor Diameter: 46" (1.14 meters) Weight: 13 lbs (6 kg) Start up wind speed: 7 mph (3 m/s) Voltage: 12 & 24 VDC (36/48 VDC available soon) Output: 400 watts at 28 mph (12.5 m/s)

This looks like something you should be interested in: ''Freetricity - Putting an end to this nonsense and a $10,000 Guarantee! $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Prove The WindMaster Does NOT perform as advertised!'' Didn't you say you now had access to two units? You know what 'is', or 'was', advertised, so set up a test. Maybe get a marine unit for comparison.... look around for a sympathetic sailboater. A marine unit might help to seperate 'location effects' from 'equipment effects'. Now your friends are making public threats of legal action which, if unfounded, could be actionable in and of themselves. Talk to a lawyer.

$10,000 To Anyone Who Can Prove The WindMaster Does NOT perform as advertised! We are in the process of suing Troy Amason (et all) and The Alternative Energy Store for libel and will take the same action against any person(s) and/or company(s) that engages in the same false statements to the detriment of Freetricity LLC. We take this action reluctantly but are left with no choice given the breath and scope of their lies and activities. While we do take this action reluctantly make no mistake about this ... we will aggressively defend ourselves and will seek appropriate damages and/or remedies whenever and wherever necessary! Thank you Freetricity LLC

This sounds like basic fraud & misrepresentation, i.e. obtaining money under false pretenses, since his product simply CANNOT work, and he : ''claimed...he had 70,000 working units ...'' I think the claim of ''70,000 working units'' is key here.... Is this a 'Verbal Puffery' or can you prove that he actually made that claim you relied upon to you in writing or that he made the same claim verbally to many others and they also relied on that claim to their detriment and will all now pursue the issue.... there is strength in numbers! Maybe the police were focussing only on the question ''did he fail to deliver ANY product'', rather than ''did he fail to deliver a FUNCTIONAL product'' ?? There are laws about ''fitness for purpose''. Ref: ''Carl claimed that back in 05/07 he had 70,000 working units out however he has refused to provide contact for any of these units to anyone that I have spoke with. He also claims to have over 400 distributors but again refuses to provide contact info and internet searches fail to turn up even a couple of working freetricity sites. ''

When I type " ('') it looks like (' ) when the post is displayed here. These two symbols are on the same key, lower is (') and upper is (''). So 42'' always shows as 42'. This is very interesting in a perverse way. Maybe we just always type ' 42 inches' and move on. Otherwise use TWO (') symbols?

Well at least it did it to you as well. As well as being a fire fighter I have worked in construction all my life so I did know the diffrence in the ft and inch marks. It seems it is a glich in this system. It types in right and looks correct in the preview but when you post you only get the single slash. Now to the real matter of what do I do now. Well you are seeing some of it. As I said Carl is a pro at this and he has covered almost all of his bases from a legal standpoint. What he does is no matter how many units you order he sends you one. At that point the police say it is a civil matter. He also keeps his opperation fairly small so as to stay under most other legal radars. The other dealers that have contacted me are much like the women that find that their husband has five other wives. They are embarased or financially unable to pursue the matter. I am left to report his actions to all, on sites like this, so at least the info is here and other people can make informed decisions. I have also filed with the BBB as have others and watched his ratting go from "A" to "CCC" In the end you are left to file in small claims court in California. Other than that I am open to suggestions.

Standard Engineering Nomenclature: 42 inches is designated as [ 42" ] 42 feet is designated as [ 42' ] Hence the reason why I thought you were describing a 42 FOOT blade tip diameter wind turbine, rather than a 42 INCH blade tip diameter wind turbine. A huge difference, obviously. The wind turbines for sailboats listed by West Marine are about 42" [42 inches] blade tip diameter, and these are intended to recharge an automobile-sized deep-cycle battery. Usually these deep cycle batteries are used to power the sailboat's bilge pumps, radios, etc. because such a deep cycle battery has the ability to repeatedly sustain a significant draw-down at moderate currents. [An automobile-sized starting battery produces high starter currents but these batteries will not last if they are routinely subject to significant discharges.] Since efficient wind turbines of about 42 inch diameter are presently available, I am having trouble understanding what new problem Freetricity is solving, and as well I fail to see how the product you describe can COMPETE with presently established products such as the wind turbines for sailboats listed by West Marine. There are many other marine outfitters you can also check. Search "sailboat wind turbines". I see no future for this particular effort given the apparent lack of a basic understanding, or grasp, of the required product technology implied by your product descriptions. What do you do now?

So now we are getting somewhere. The blades on your "wind turbine" (aka a cheap ceiling fan) simply s*** s***. Pure & simple. As I noted before, look at the blades of the Windward II (II as '2') ceiling fans. Home Depot usually has them. Windward II ceiling fans usually cost $140 or so on sale, $190 retail. Right now, I must conclude that whomever is leading the engineering development of your "wind turbine" is absolutely out of their depth about how to design a wind turbine. But I think you already knew that....... I now believe that ALL of the concerns I had raised previously apply to your situation. What do you do now?

This thing is very small. and the blades are flat In fact it looks very much like a ceiling fan.

But not all 'turbine blades' are created equal. What are yours like? If you look at a standard ceiling fan you will notice that the blades' surface is flat rather than twisted, that the blades' surface angles are CONSTANT with increasing spin radius. An efficient blade must have a slight TWIST to have good efficiency, because at increasingly greater radial locations the blade local segment is moving faster, i.e. V (fps) = Radius (ft) x RPM x (2*pi/60) fps. The resulting V (fps) vector becomes ever longer in the "airflow vector diagram" as radius increases, while the incoming airflow vector remains constant, so the local physical angle of the blade airfoil must be reduced w/r/t the root section angle. Therefore to have the *required* constant angle of attack needed for blade efficiency the blade airfoil must be 'twisted to be flatter' at larger radial locations. See the Windward line of ceiling fans. Otherwise the blades will be TIP LOADED which results in an inefficient blade that will generate torque mostly from the tips rather than the entire swept area, which probably renders your equation inapplicable. Also the airflow over & around a building is likely to be turblent (disturbed and tumbling) incoming airflow, while your equation likely assumes the turbine is subjected to laminar (smooth & undisturbed) incoming airflow. These are very different situations. The performance of the "electric generator" should be easy to sort out. Do note that wind turbines usually employ gearing such that the blades can turn more slowly for greater efficiency, while the "generator" spins fast enough to perform its task. I recall that the air turbines sold by West Marine for use on sailboats are a lot smaller than a 42 ft diameter. Look them up on WestMarine.com and try to relate their size & output to your situation. Something seems very wrong, here.

Hey Thomas, Troy here. I wrote the original complaint. I am not an engineer I am just a recently retired fire fighter. I will say that many people that have been in the turbine industry say exactly what you say. A rooftop turbine will not work. What Carl said was that they used the roof to accelerate the wind IE. all the wind hitting your roof was funneled to your windmill. I am not sure if that actually has any truth or not. I will say that turning was not the problem with my windmills. I had it mounted on my house and it did turn. For engineers the real trouble is that there is a formula that gives you the possible power output at a given wind speed for a turbine. It is based on swept area. This turbine is 42" and the formula is Power=(.00477)(radius^2)(wind speed^3) radius is in feet and windspeed is in mph. Now Carls claim was that this formula was not valid with his product due to the fact that he had developed new technology. Well that is a nail in the coffin as I opened the unit up and it is a simple DC motor bought from Grainger with none of the modifications Carl described. My unit did spin. I had 20+mph wind for several weeks. Trouble is it never put out enough amps to charge a battery. The next problem is that the load that is placed on the turbine makes a huge diffrence it its ability to spin. With no load the unit basically can free spin with no pressure on it, and will produce voltage at low wind speed. Such as if it is hooked to a fully charged battery. If you messure these units under no load they will put out 40v in about 20mph wind. That looks great. Trouble is when you put any motor under a load, such as a discharged battery, then it has much more trouble turning. I used both a drillpress and a huge shop fan to test my two units. Now even with the drillpress, which having a larger motor overcomes the resistance of the turbine under load, I did not get the impressive results of Rich. The best I ever did was just under .10 amps. At that rate it would take just over 1000 hours of constant 20+ wind to have any chance to charge a battery. I say 20+ because I also tested with the fan. It took 18+mph wind to get the turbine, under load, to produce between 12 and 13 volts. To put the amps in the battery you need 13+. Now real world my batteries never charged at all. Above is just what the math says should happen. Saddly the real story here is not if the unit works or not. Look at the "Carl" math. He has done this scam before (Topgolf). Look at topgolf in BBB and at www.frauds.org it is the same distributorship scam. He is using an alias, Vetts when his real name is Vettes. It is almost one year since I placed my original order. The order Carl said would ship in eight days and yet it is still not complete. How will you sell a product that the company can't supply? You should make your own decision which is why I wrote this. I am willing to speak with anyone on this and you are welcome to come look at the units I have. The question is would you as a small business owne, sell the public, this product after this experience? I certainly would not.

and a small wind turbine on a sail boat makes a lot of sense... if you are on a sail boat, you will want to be be out sailing ONLY when there IS wind.... and on a large lake or the ocean there is a lot of fetch, the distance where the wind can blow unimpeeded and undisturbed by trees & buildings. This smooth airflow means you will be able to keep your sail boat's bilge pump battery charged without relying solely on your genset. On the ocean is also where you will find 'farms' of large wind turbines. And on land? Large wind turbines are placed atop VERY high hills, again where there is a lot of fetch, the distance where the wind can blow unimpeeded by trees & tall buildings. Siemans and GE are now focussed on large wind turbines. But I fail to see how one uses a wind turbine in an urban or suburban enviroment, the implied market for the wind turbine marketing teritories under discussion here, because in an urban or suburban enviroment the wind will be disrupted and deflected by tall trees & tall buildings causing unpredictable and unstable airflow patterns. This situation will be akin to the experience of trying to fly a kite near tall trees and buildings. That is, very difficult. Something does not seem right here. And yes, I do have an aero engineering background... mechanical & EE also...... I will be attentive to any reasonably technical explanations.

What I found At Freetricity Hello, my name is Rich and I was interested in the Freetricity opportunity until I found these questions of their product on the web. I called and spoke to Carl and told him of my concerns and asked if I could come out to California to see and test the products for myself. The only condition I set was that I wanted to see first hand while I was there the battery charging capabilities of both the 1200 Watt E2D system and the Windmaster 12 volt dc system in a controlled setting. He accepted and I went out for two days and these are the results: 1) The 1200 watt E2D system generator was in a drill press when I arrived and the deep cycle battery was reading 10.5 volts on my meter. The 1200 watt system has five components: The wind generator. A 15.5 volt regulator. A Xantrex C-35 charge controller a modified sine wave 1200 watt inverter and a deep cycle battery. We turned on the drill press on at 12 noon to 600 rpms (as best I could calculate is around 10 - 12 mph wind speed). It puts out that regulated 15.5 volts easily and I read 14.5 amps going into the battery. At 5:15 pm the battery was charged fully and reading 12.86 volts. This was well within their claim of 3 -5 hours of wind needed to charge the battery. 2) The 12 volt Windmaster generator (much larger) was in another drill press and we turned that one on at 12 noon also and at the same 600rpms. The 12 volt Windmaster has the same five components as the 1200 listed above the only difference is the generator itself (and the props are bigger but they were not involved in this testing) is larger and has four output options. It puts out that regulated 15.5 volts easily but this unit delivers 31.5 amps at that 600 rpms. At 3:15 pm the battery (that had started at 10.35 volts) was fully charged at 12.78 volts. All readings were read going into the battery. Again, this product delivered exactly what's advertised. I have to admit I had a great visit and thought the staff of Carl, Linda, Morgan and Ceaser to be very professional and accommodating so, I signed up to be their El Paso area distributor. My website will be up and running soon. If you are interested in Freetricity's opportunity or products and have read these posts do what I did go out and see for yourself! Thanks Rich

A Message From Freetricity LLC There seems to be a small controversy brewing with regard to who we are as a company and what it is we are trying to accomplish in the renewable energies industry. The controversy: Troy(aka twamaso) is indeed one of our distributors. He has signed a contract (that he signed well after his initial investment) that guarantees him the right to market, distribute and install our products in a Dallas, TX area. Two things stand out with regard to his signed contract. 1) He signed up knowing full well we were a start up company in the product development stage. He knew this because he visited our facility twice and saw first hand the changes that were already made to our product and the changes we were planning for the future. 2) He knew that we would not be rolling out our national campaign until all of our (hundreds of areas and distributors assigned) distributors were all up and running. This means websites complete (his still isn't) for us to be able to direct our customers to. National advertising is very expensive and our being able to direct potential customers to our distributors is essential. These are the facts as they are regarding him. That he now somehow seems to think his signed contract is invalid and/or our efforts fraudulent is ludicrous! He now tries to harm our business and ALL other Freetricity Distributors by these postings that are at best less than truthful. *** This seems to say way more about Troy's character than anything else! *** Freetricity's mission: As best we can determine less than 3% of all homes in the U.S. have a renewable energy source product. The reason's why are three fold: 1) The prohibitive cost. $20,000 - $40,000 for a towered wind generator or roof full of solar panels. 2) Local restrictions, codes, permit refusals and home owners associations that will not allow unsightly solar panels much less a towered wind generator. 3) Lack of professional installation. Our products size and upcoming distribution/installation capability eliminate numbers 2 and 3 which represents approximately 70% of all American homes and our cost effectively eliminates number 1 as well. *** Our mission is to provide a reasonably priced viable renewable product (and professional installation) to these homes who would otherwise be left without any renewable option at all. *** The Freetricity Guarantee: Our customers will always benefit from our return for upgrade policy. This means that as we grow and come out with new and better versions they can return the model they have for the newer version at only the cost difference. *** No one else in our industry offers this guarantee!*** In closing: Our national roll out has taken longer than anyone would have hoped but you only get one chance at a great national first impression and we will wait until all of our distributors (and our product upgrades) are ready for it! Two things you can count on in 2008: 1) Renewable Energy Sources will be available and used by a larger percentage of Americans. 2) Freetricity will lead the way! Thank you ..........