Complaint Review: JP Morgan Chase -

Thanks for sharing that informaiton. Good to know!

 In Canada there are Finance companies,  ( I include banks ) that will up front tell you number of credit cards and Limit and % of usage of total limit are all three seperate and distinct factors in your credit "Score".

BMO (large Canadian bank) would not finance my Home. Three credit cards exceeded their guidelines.

Hello TD Bank.

I seem to have lost my original rebuttal  here, so I'll be brief in the interest of time: 

Yes, that's all  conventional wisdom.  Moreover, the course I was required to take for filing bankruptcy taught me that debt is almost always bad. Perhaps people will take my example and learn to avoid debt entirely--not good for the banking industry, but maybe better in the long run.   

The entire country, if you have been able to up with the news this month, is on the verge of bankruptcy--too much debt.  Wait till February to see what they come up with again. 

Thanks again for taking time and for being so sincere in your comments, or so it seemed to me you were.    

You said: 

You seem to think that because instead of having a single credit card with a higher balance you had several smaller credit cards with balances that is the reason for all of your issues.  Well sorry to tell you but you are in a huge state of denial.

Yes, "seem" is the right word here.  To clarify, I can't blame my whole circumstance on multiple cards.  I have accepted responsibility--I have a brain and I use it most of the time. However much I am in denial myself on whatever point, I realize also that banks have policies that probably hurt more people than they help---they have more fees, more ways to give credit and charge higher interest. It's not just Chase.  It's other banks that do that as well.  

You said: 

The fact is that the effect on your credit is exactly the same.  That is having a $10,000 credit limit on one card with an $8,000 balance is no different than having 4 credit cards with a $2500 credit limit and a $2,000 balance on each.  They both give you a usage ratio of 80% which by just about every standard is considered MAXED OUT.  Even if you wanted to go even farther and say that you had 100 credit cards with a $100 limit each and $80 on each still gives you an 80% ratio.  The "ideal" balance ratio is 30% and under.  Don't beleive me just go ask any legitimate credit counsuling agency. 

Yes, this is all conventional financial wisdom.  Doesnt' stop the effect of bank fees when someone is struggling, working extended  hours and trying to catch up with loss. Doesn't make  Chase the good guy in this either.  You know what people do to avoid bankruptcy? They stop spending and borrow more to keep from getting late fees.  They work harder and longer hours if they can and don't take vacations.  They let go of health insurance and lose sleep over obligations not met.  

You said: 

I don't think anyone here is defending any financial institutions, but I also don't want to speak for them.  So I will just speak for me.  I am just telling you as it is, and would tell you the exact same thing regardless of the bank you mentioned.  But I also know that regardless of what I(we) say you are probably not going to change your opinion.  But if even one or two other people read this and realize the situation they are in and correct it..it is worth it.

I agree.  And, there's a bigger picture here--there are more people and more poor people and they are losing on the financial scene and more banks trying to manage to turn profit in a volatile economy in the US.  And, people like yourself are understandably defending conventional wisdom here.  But these are times for more wisdom than even that. These are times forsharing more than just that.  Then there's Wall Street...

You said: 

You ask who is to blame..You?  Well..to be honest with you, for the most part yes.  Think about this.  What would have happened if they declined you for these credit cards in the beginning?  Would you have found a way to make it work without this "path of least resistance"?   So then why would they be to blame when you decided to not taking that same path when you had the credit card?   

Oh and no I do not work for Chase or any other bank or fianancial institution.

They didn't decline me and if they had I  have no idea what would have happened.  I may or may not have found a way to make it work.  However, I did take a bankruptcy required course after four years of paying down debt and finding a way to "make it work"  and being told by counsel to file for bankruptcy four years before I finally did.   That course taught me a lot of new money management wisdom: it taught me that debt was almost never a good thing.  Now, that's not good policy for the banking business, I know, but that's better for me in the long run and probably for most people suffering financially.  That's probably most of the country, including the US as a whole, which was on the brink of losing its credit rating just this past week....Perhaps that's what people would best learn from my example here---to cut up their credit cards and find another way every  day, no matter what.  

Thanks again for taking time  and thought to respond.  Your sincerity is a blessing in a world where sometimes there really isn't much.  

You seem to think that because instead of having a single credit card with a higher balance you had several smaller credit cards with balances that is the reason for all of your issues.  Well sorry to tell you but you are in a huge state of denial.

The fact is that the effect on your credit is exactly the same.  That is having a $10,000 credit limit on one card with an $8,000 balance is no different than having 4 credit cards with a $2500 credit limit and a $2,000 balance on each.  They both give you a usage ratio of 80% which by just about every standard is considered MAXED OUT.  Even if you wanted to go even farther and say that you had 100 credit cards with a $100 limit each and $80 on each still gives you an 80% ratio.  The "ideal" balance ratio is 30% and under.  Don't beleive me just go ask any legitimate credit counsuling agency. 

I don't think anyone here is defending any financial institutions, but I also don't want to speak for them.  So I will just speak for me.  I am just telling you as it is, and would tell you the exact same thing regardless of the bank you mentioned.  But I also know that regardless of what I(we) say you are probably not going to change your opinion.  But if even one or two other people read this and realize the situation they are in and correct it..it is worth it.

You ask who is to blame..You?  Well..to be honest with you, for the most part yes.  Think about this.  What would have happened if they declined you for these credit cards in the beginning?  Would you have found a way to make it work without this "path of least resistance"?   So then why would they be to blame when you decided to not taking that same path when you had the credit card?   

Oh and no I do not work for Chase or any other bank or fianancial institution.

I owe about $1400 on a 62 month loan and payoff  will happen soon at about the 62 month mark.  

No matter how you spin it, I still believe Chase used my situation unfairly to justify high interest rates.  I'm still learning about what's real and what's not in banking and I do sincerely believe Chase needs to do a more comprehensive review of its values and practices where poor and/or desperate people with financial difficulties are concerned.  Thanks again for taking time to address my situation.  Do you work for a financial institution by the way?  

You seem invested in defending the financial institutions.  I still think multiple credit cards instead of just one was designed by banks for a profit motive--how could I not at least consider profit motive if only by using mere common sense?  I know my circumstances well for better and for worse; and I know your position has conventional merit.  I also thank you for taking the time to remind me about a financial instituion's position if only to set me straight and hope that I will learn my lesson.  

With all due respect, however, I find myself thinking it's also so obvious that someone who so near retirement ends up filing bankruptcy has made less than ideal decisions and encountered some difficult circumstances that contributed to getting them there.   I'm such an easy target.   What's not always so easy for banks to admit is that some of their policies have perhaps been put in place with the profit motive being unrealistically high.  As a result, in my opinion, they have contributed to some of the economic failures of their clients, to weakening their own institutional credibility, and to putting our country at greater risk.

Our own US gov't shut down in part over the debt issue, and we're still not out of the woods.   Our financial institutions are, of course, not entireley to blame here, however.  How does one fault a river for finding the path of least resistance?  So who is to blame here? Me?  

"It does seem to me to be a 'rip-off' because the bank offers multiple credit cards instead of just one and then turns around during the process of negotiating a car loan and jacks up the interest based on the multiple cards."

This is probably more about the balance on those cards than the number of cards in your possession.

Were you forced to use those credit cards? No. Were you forced to sign the auto loan agreement? No, of course not. You were not ripped off but you believe you were because you have the mentality of someone that believes it's ok to evade your financial obligations by filing bankruptcy.

Robert wrote, “So any debt that you incurred is 100% on you.”

That was correct, Robert. But now the rest of us will have to pay the debt through higher interest rates and increased merchant fees because the deadbeat has filed bankruptcy.

You could have exercised the option of a shorter-term loan by paying a higher monthly payment, which would have resulted in a lower amount of interest paid on the loan. You chose the 72-month option. If a shorter-term loan would have resulted in payments that were not within your budget than maybe you should have bought a less expensive vehicle. I suppose that's someone else's fault too, right?

I understand that people go through rough times but to blame the finance company for YOUR decisions is a disgraceful cop-out. You have been an adult for over 40-years so accept responsibility for YOUR actions.

Each case is different and with its own set of circumstances.  Believe me, it was for me a very last resort.  I was criticized by many for not filing sooner and the banks got more than their poiund of flesh from me in my lifetime before many times over.  I wish you  would write more about this topic--it's easy just to 'dump'and run.  :)

Thanks for taking the time to really read and respond--so appreciated.  Yes, my responsibility.   I used credit cards to assist with income gaps and with the options I had at the time, I got caught in a vicious cycle.  It does seem to me to be a "rip-off" because the bank offers multiple credit cards instead of just one and then turns around during the process of negotiating a car loan and jacks up the interest based on the multiple cards.  Maybe that's entrapment?  I don't know. It just doesn't seem right to me. I believe that  the US is a corpocracy and corporations have the power of the lobby to have  laws and bills and rules made ad infinitum in their favor.  It's disappointing to me at best and some may see it as full out corrupt at worst.  However, I was granted chapter 7, something new to me and was chastised by some for not filing sooner. I didn't owe a huge amount, but given my situation, it was enough to topple my house of cards.   I'm a hard worker, a high achiever, and have done work I love, something high on my system of values.  Doing what you love in this world, however, is no guarantee your compensation will be good or even steady.   When I review my own error, I see plenty.  On the other hand, when I consider the banking policies in place, I am horrified at what I believe happens to ordinary people.  This last round of gov't shutdown is a reminder to me that debt is a way of life for too many and a common way of doing business in the US--it's not just me.  And and banks know this--they feed desperate souls cash at a price and punish you for not having the money, no matter your circumstances.    Such is life.  Thanks again for taking time to reply and in very good writing.  I am grateful for this forum.

 -JP Morgan Chase, and other banks gave me multiple cards with multiple annual fees instead of just one credit card with one credit line

- Not a single bank "gives" you a credit card.  You must actually say that you want one by applying for it.  Now, they may send you an offer to apply..but it is YOUR choice whether or not to apply or toss the offer in the trash.  Have you figured out yet which one of those two options you SHOULD have done?

But even once you get a credit card, they do not under any circumstance FORCE you to use it.  So any debt that you incurred is 100% on you.

Chase used these multiple credit cards to justify charging me higher itnerest rates.

- Higher Interest rates = Higher Risk.  The reason you are higher risk is because the more credit you have the higher the chance you will default.  Oh...and low and behold you filed a Bankruptcy....Ummmm gee looks like they were right.

 I believe that I have paid more than 15,000 to date on that loan and Chase will not give me a break.

- Exactly what "break" do you want?  You made a legal agreement to make 62 payments at $266.25/month.  There was nothing in there that said..Well once you get to paying back $15,000 we will give you a break.  There was nothing that said you only had to make a payment when it was convienent for you.  If ANY bank did that and didn't hold the borrower to the terms they agreed to..they would be out of business.

 I think that by the time the 62 month loan payment period is over (@266.25 per month), I will have paid 17000 back on a 10K car loan.  

- Okay your loan terms DO NOT change.   So if you had a problem with the terms of the loan and paying back almost $17,000 on a 10K loan..the time to handle that was BEFORE you signed on the dotted line.

 I opted to not surrender my car and so I am still paying.

- So you are given a "way out" and decide to continue paying on a loan that they wouldn't give you a break on.  So please tell us exactly how is Chase ripping you off.

"being ripped off by corporations like Chase" You agreed to the finance terms; therefore, it's not a rip-off.

"I was granted Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection"

THAT'S a rip-off.