Complaint Review: SIGNTRONIX - Brad Whistler - Torrance California

Although this is, by name, aimed at SIGNTRONIX, this is the salesman that is 'responsible' for what I am about to write:

Brad/Bradley Scott Whistler

2505 Cope Drive

Mechanicsburg, PA 17055

(717) 608-8255

Additional Address:

P.O. Box 292

New Kingstown, PA 17072

Note: The odds of you, that is reading this, to meet this same individual would be a rare occurence but they will more than likely be sewn of the same cloth. From hotel rooms, after posting ads on websites such as Craigslist, the so-called managers (which Brad apparently is) recruit other salesman to work under them (probably receiving additional compensation from the recruits sales, as well as their own. Malignant layered business anyone?).They even give their 'teams' cute little names such as "Landsharks" http://signtronixcareers.com/success-jim-callahan.asp

I will get to my experience with this excuse of a company but before I do, I would like to share some things.

First is that this company is devised so that if a customer has any problems, with product, sales, or contract, there is NO accountability with the independant salesman/representative/dealer (non employee yet some, such as Brad, own a piece of the company through stock) OR the mother company. What they call customer service is nothing short of watching two children (the salesman and the company 'service rep') pointing fingers at each other while squealing "he did it!"

Second, and this is the part that really sheds light on the reason that they don't care if their customer relations are even close to being legit, helpful or professional in any way shape or form. The contract they have is written up in a way that once you sign it, they have you AND your money and if ANY thing goes wrong or you find a problem... tough. You may as well just put the acronym BOHICA to memory.

Here is my experience:

I own/operate a small salon in a little town in the middle of nowhere. It was a Friday when I was getting ready to open. Brad pulls in just as I was about to stick the key in the door to open, which now that I look at it, makes me think he did some previous planning to arrive when he did. Didn't even announce that he was a salesman. Just said "well it looks like I am just in time" and followed me into my shop. I thought he was after a haircut or something.

He then started his pitch. I will skip over the details of the whole door-to-door sales approach, which was quite pushy at times, and get to the heart of the problem.

He took pictures of the exterior of the building where I wanted the sign, which is the location of the sign I currently have on display. He took no measurements at all and I even asked him if a four foot by six foot sign would fit. He assured me it would (more on this 'assurance' later).

He then proceeded to use his laptop to use the photo of the building to superimpose the rough-art-draft of the sign that we were discussing for my purchase. It [photo] looked fine and I bought into it.

Not more than an hour after Brad left my shop with my check, and after showing the cgi of the end product sign on the building to a person who would be installing the sign and is knowledgable in construction/engineering, I found out that the sign would not fit where it was intended... not by a long shot

It was not even remotely done to scale compared to the dimensions of the building. I did know that Signtronix nor Brad was responsible for the installation but that gives them no right to basically lie and make things look good on paper just to make a sale, and then use the contract as an excuse to say 'take a hike, it's not our problem' ; The following week Brad came back and made the sarcastis comment "making it to scale would have taken me an extra twenty to thirty minutes!". Very professional these sales people are

No more than thirty minutes later when I started to sense a scam, I went to my bank down the street to cancel the check I had given to Brad. I was told it was already cashed, for cash... twenty minutes after Brad initially left my shop. It would have been cashed sooner but the teller at the bank told me he pulled into the parking lot and sat in his vehicle for a good fifteen minutes before entering the bank

Not that cashing a check right away, or getting cash is illegal BUT when I later looked into this operation I learned the reason for this quick banking (also makes it look fishy that they try to get your money as quickly as possible before you catch on to them). The 'initial investment' as the contract calls it... aka deposit, down payment or what Bradley ironically named it, "good-faith-monies" is nothing more than the commison of the salesman!

This is why there is no reasoning with these people when something goes wrong. They already recieved their money and nothing will change that which is cemented by the contract where it states that the deposit is not refundable and may be retained by the 'dealer'. This creates aggressive and downright fraudelent sales tactics with NO fear of accountability if a problem, or lie, is uncovered.

I then tried to contact Brad to let him in on what the situation was and that I wanted out because of this negligence on his part. Three hours later on the same day, he got back to me. I explained things and he says "if you want out all you have to do is tell me". I told him. I also told him that in the light of my reason for cancelling (his incompetance, negligence, deception, or a mixture of all three) that I feel should get my money back.

He goes into his obviously scripted speech of why I am not, and will not get my money back... plus the contract says so, ha ha.

Later he says, without explaining his reasoning behind it "just imagine what would happen if I gave every customers money back that wanted it". Gee Brad, does that mean you run into this alot? Sure sounds like it. Also, it must be nice to have a 'job' where the customers is never right, and your contract is the exclamation point at the end of that thought.

It was playing hell trying to discuss this with Brad, or even getting in touch with him to get it in writing that I was at least out of the 'lease contract', which he says "why do you need it in writing?". Excuse me? I am sure you have heard the 'fool me once...' saying. Enough said

Having him return my calls was fun. My emails never reached him, or so he said. I was told he tried to call me but my number was disconnected AND he left messages. Which is weird. How can you leave messages at a number that is disconnected? And none of my numbers he had, especially my business phone were disconnected... ever!

Days later when I go to open my shop, I find an 8x11 envelope stuffed in the door jamb. With a nice handwritten note on the front while inside it contained the originals of the contract, my voided check for the lease, the credit application, and my release of contract letter worked up by him on Signtronix letterhead (lawyers even wonder how if he is not an employee of Signtronix that he can draft up forms and documents in the name of Signtronix) All of these documents were ripped in half.

At one point Brad tried to backpeddle and told me if the sign won't fit that I should put it on a pole and not the building. I wanted it where I wanted it... and the photo he created of the building and sign reflected that. Also with the layout of my building, a pole would not even work, even if I did want to do that. It is not an option and never will be, for several reasons which are my own and not negotiable.

That is one thing about these people. They don't want to listen to you or take your opinions into consideration. They attempt to tell you what you want, what you will have, and what you will do. Like with the 'put up a pole' thing. They seem to have this idea in their minds that as long as you can put the sign on your property, regardless if it is not where you absolutely want to install it, or even if it is on the roof where no one can see it, things are 'ok'. You own a sign at least and you really have no reason to complain to them. This is the 'it will definately fit' assurance.

The initial investment is basically held hostage until you either give in to their 'ideas', or you roll over, give up, take the loss and move on. Guess that is why they 'cater to small business'. They know there is nothing protecting the owners from this door-to-door operation and most will just give in or give up or have to shell out more money to fight it

I will say another thing... they are definately quick to recite the 'right to recind' laws that protect consumers in door-to-door sales, which have no bearing on a business, even if it deals with door-to-door 'landsharks'. They have found a nice niche with this operation and they definately know it.

I did contact the BBB but that really does no good because of the lack of connection between the company and the 'dealer'.

I was told by Ron Murphy, a supposed customer service rep at Signtronix that contacted me regarding my BBB complaint, that it is all up to the 'dealer' redarding a refund which, of course, still stands by his belief that the sign will fit. Yes Brad, it will fit, but I hope nobody wants to use the public sidewalk because they will have to duck to get under it to pass by without meandering out into a well traveled road. So now I will attract new customers with my sign but at the same time, I lose them as causulties on the highway. Great, I have a death-trap, like a human 'bug zapper'. Ooooh look at the pretty lights... BAM!

Brad even shows up at my shop, just yesterday, telling me to withdrawal my BBB complaint because he is in risk of losing his job. This man with a Napoleon complex thinks this sob story is going to make me feel bad? Hardly, but nice try (not really)

Several times he has stated things to me, apparently trying to make me feel 'bad'. Like how every time he has to drive to see me, he is losing money. How this whole thing wastes the time of his other customers... etc etc etc. It's not my fault this is a deal gone bad, Brad. Deal with it, as I am

Besides, I never tell him to drive to me to discuss the issues. There are phones and email but such things are never used and I have a feeling why. These people want nothing documented... by email, phone, or in person; I have had many excuses handed to me from both Mr Whistler AND Signtronix Reps as to why I never hear back from them or get replies to my questions.

Lost emails, messages not getting through, bad phone numbers, etc. With all this money they make, you would think that they would have up to date computer systems, email service, operating systems, and even phones (makes me wonder how well the signs they sell hold up. Probably light up every time, 50% of the time)

Brad even seemed to be paranoid unless he is talking to me alone. That in itself waves all kinds of flags.

Reason I say that is because when I have a customer or my employee is in listening distance, he tries to crawl up my a*s and more or less whispers to me. My employee even asked me why he was acting that way, and of course I explained. Sneaky I tell you. Luckily I am sneaky as well and can back up any of my claims in this report with a witness and other concrete evidence.

From sale, to finding out I was suckered, to letting the salesman know I wanted out happend within a period of hours... on a Friday afternoon/evening.

I was told by Mr whistler that the only reason I could get out of the lease is that it was not started because I did not give final approval of the sign art. That is laughable for him to say seeing when I talked to Signtronix, they didn't even associate me with being a customer and had no records of me... because they did not have a contract. At least that is what I gathered from the Rep tripping over his words while we talked and him asking me to fax a copy of my contract to California.

There was never even time for my sign oder to be sent to the company (plus I have 3 of 4 copies of contract, with the 4th being in Brads possesion so I know it wasn't sent to the 'factory')

I know this still doesn't really mean anything seeing I signed the contract but my point is that it's not like I waited until the sign was manufactured, or shipped to me so what exactly is the real issue as to why things can't be made 'right'?

One way this Brad character tried to 'fix' things was to offer TWO signs. One for me and one for my significant-other for his business, in a "House Sale". Which turns out is getting two signs at a price where the company made NO money on the signs. Riiiiiiiiight! Never did hear the price for this 'sale'. I am sure it would have been impressive

Side note about pricing: It seemed to me that Brad was assuming I cancelled my order over having cold-feet with the price, seeing he kept trying to fish that out of me on more than one occasion. Like I was using the sign not fitting as an excuse to hide the 'truth'. Well Brad if you are reading this, it never had a d**n thing to do with price so even though you probably run into that scenerio a lot, it is not so here.

Seriously, what is wrong with trying to act like a respectable business and at least attempt to salvage the situation and no, saying you will sell me a smaller sign is not the answer. I already have a smaller sign, thank you very much. You know, the one you so eloquently stated as the "postage stamp"

I do understand that the signs are custom and once started, it is too late but get real. If there is no power for a company or it's 'dealers' to fix a mistake out of extraordinary circumstance, and all because a contract says they don't have to, well you are not 'professional' acting at all. Just throwing the word 'professional' around about your company does NOT make it so

So anyway that is my sign buying experience with this company although I am sure there will be more to come.

Just so people don't take me wrong, I will say that it is apparent this company does sell signs, and they have some happy customers (or at least quiet ones) who have bought these signs. So I am not here saying this whole company is a 'scam'

Athough on the other hand, it is definately set up to make ripping off someone very easy... and 'legal'. Almost looks as though the salesman are hoping for it, seeing they get paid regardless of customer satisfaction. After reading it over and over and it finally set-in, I can't even believe I signed this contract just on the stipulations alone, and the wording therein. Too bad we can't post pictures here because it would be a nice read for people not familiar with it

One reaction I recieved upon showing the Signtronix contract to another was "Wow!I have heard of this type of contract, but I never saw one until now".

I never found out the quality of the signs so I can't really comment on that even though I wish I could, and the salesman do not know anything technical about the making or materials of the signs so they were no help (and they say they are familiar with the product they sell)

They do throw around a lot of twenty-dollar words such as 'polycarbonate' but even so, they don't have the knowledge to back up the words. Kind of like when hearing 'space-age polymer' sounded like it was something special when all it meant was any plastic manufactured on a date after the landing on the moon.

To every person that has had, or is having problems with this 'company', whether in the past, present, or future... don't keep it to yourself and don't just file a report here and leave it at that. Sure this site is a great public service but apparently more is needed.

People that find new ways to rip people off need stopped. Even if it means lobbying for some new laws to be put in the books. They are like spammers that no matter what you do to try and stop it, they find ways to slip mail in through the new-found crack

File with the Better Business Bureau (BBB), regardless of the fact that Signtronix has that base covered and has no control over the 'dealer' who is probably your problem to begin with (((Redacted))))

Even though they do not handle cases on an individual basis, file with the Federal Trade Commisson (FTC), and they may start an investigation if enough complaints are filed http://ftc.gov

Contact the Attorney General in your home state

If you live in a metropolitan area or close to one, contact your local television and/or radio stations. Some have 'hotline numbers' where you can contact people that may, in this situation, be able to help you in some way

If you don't have solicitation laws in your locale, look for someone who can, or would help change that.

Spread the word as to what happened to you. Visit local business owners and talk to them, tell them what happened, and to be wary if Signtronix 'dealers' knock on their doors... or just walk in. Word of mouth is a powerful thing, especially when it deals with the thought of being ripped off and losing money... people DO pay attention when it comes to that!

Speak up. Let it be known that you are not going to give in. This type of thing happens for one reason and one reason alone... they are relying on the fact that people give up all too easily.

It doesn't hurt to try, and if we all try to help out, we may save another respectful individual from having Signtronix stick their claws into him/her.

Also before any 'ex employees' or any other person associated with this company attempts to reply, saying things like "you just bought a sign! get over it", or any thing else along those lines. Think before you speak and when you do speak, try not to sound so... rude, callous, and defensive.

You really do sound guilty of all the accusations when you start becoming offensively hostile with your replies. We all know the truth some times hurts so why don't you do something to change that instead of trying to force your customers into codependancy?

Be men for once in your lives. Be honest! Be HUMAN at least!!! Money is not everything, even though you and your 'teams' of salesman feel it is, especially when you have to be deceptive little slimeballs to walk over people to get it. You give respectable sales people bad names and only makes people stereotype your 'profession' even further

I came to say what I wanted to say so with that, if anybody from Signtronix does not agree with anything I have said or how I have said it, tough. In the words of both Ron Murphy and Brad Whistler,"You can't make everyone happy"; As many times as I have heard that statement from Signtronix, I am starting to think it should be typed onto all of their contracts... like a slogan.

I was told to 'live and learn'. Well I am taking it a step further. As well as living, I am going to teach that which I have learned so others don't need to learn the hard way.

Thank you for reading, and good luck

P.S. After looking into Northern Leasing who is associated with this mess made my jaw drop. I was wondering why it stated on the 'credit application' that "$0 dollars to be billed post funding". Before I was ignorant on the situation, I looked at that and thought to myself "why are they telling me this? isn't this common sense?". But now I know why a company like that needs to come out and specifically state something like that to attempt to make 'customers' feel comfortable. I also like how in the fine print it states "under no circumstance shall this lease be construed as a consumer contract". Smooth... very smooth

Elizabeth

New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania

U.S.A.

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