Complaint Review: Small Business Network SBN - American Tele$ales - Spring Valley California

Yes, Susan, the membership would be in the name of my spouse. I did all the faxing, etc. to finish setting the membership up. So I was in on and aware of this from the onset. There was no sneakiness involved between us. I am the main paper-pusher here at our office, so everything comes to me eventually. During every cancellation attempt, the SBN representative DID speak to my spouse. In fact, they INSISTED on it. Fine. He talked, I talked, SBN talked. By the end of each call we were both hopeful that the issue was finally settled because SBN assured us that it was. It wasn't. This began in 2002 (we attempted to cancel after the first year) and continued until 2005. The protocols were followed at both ends. SBN just never seemed able to manage a cancellation or even keep a record of the cancellation attempts. That seems to be a problem at your end and it went on year after year. Finding ourselves caught in this endless loop of being unable to cancel, finding unknown (to us) names dipping into our bank account, fighting this for three years brought us to a point of total frustration. The amount of effort it took to put a stop to it ourselves only raised our ire. I put off the change of bank accounts as long as I felt safe in doing so because of the hassle involved. I have no beef with your services because we never utilized them. They were just not something we could use in our day to day business. We saw that during the first year and determined that staying a member would not benefit us. It would be truly bad business sense to pay for something that one never uses. I am sure you have many members all over who are wildly happy with it, and that is great. As I stated earlier, we have already taken the necessary steps to avoid further problems with this issue. The bank account in SBN's records is a dead account now and it does not matter to me if it sits in your files until doomsday. While I appreciate the monumental effort you seem to be expending on this now, calling you at this point would be beating a dead horse. Why would I call to cancel now? What else could possibly be done to resolve the issue? I certainly would have appreciated your mighty efforts two years, or even a year ago. If things had been done correctly from your end, this report would not be posted here today. The only advice I can offer you now is that when someone calls to cancel that you or someone in your office makes sure that it is done promptly and properly. Not everyone is going to wait years before getting highly upset. Your service is NOT going to be beneficial to everyone and that is something that you need to resign yourself to. There is no such thing as a "one size fits all" business package. Never has been, never will be. As for the rest of your posts, they really make no sense. You were affiliated or associated, then you were not. It is going to take someone smarter than myself to figure out what you are trying to say with all that. As for myself, this is now a dead issue. There is no denying that we found it impossible to cancel a membership with SBN for whatever reason. It certainly was not because we were not trying desperately to do so. I have to deduce that the problem lies within your database or the people in your office running the computers. You may or may not hear from either AG depending on whether they are able or even willing to try to unravel it all. The reason the complaint was filed with those offices was that we had no idea who or what American Tele$ales was and became very concerned when this showed up on the bank statement. Get those cancellation issues under control and all should be well for you.

I am sorry to say that since we show no one with your name nor any record in your city I am still unable to help you without a call. But would be more than happy to give you any information you seek. If you wanted our address I already told you how to get it... Just so you know we have a recording of whomever signed up for the membership and it clearly states the different fees. Again, I would be happy to give you access to that recording. You will be able to hear on the recording that whomever signed up agrees to the membership. I could give you more information if the membership was in your name. This could also be part of the reason you were unable to cancel a membership. Only the person who signs up (and we have a verbal contract with) may cancel...and since there is not a single member matching your name/state, the only conclusion I have is that you are not even the actual member. At the time your company was signed up for the membership we did not have an Agent Sales Program. These new agents only sale face to face. This is the first program that we offer commissions for. Our home office and headquarters are in Southern California-you can use the Coronado, CA address if you would like. We have always been the Small Business Network, Inc. The name has never changed, we have never morphed. Only our customer service office has moved to NV. Again this could all be fixed with one phone call...but it has to be from the actual member, and I have no record that is you. We do have angry spouses call because the other signed up and did not tell them. Perhaps this is why you are not able to cancel the membership? Again I can do nothing without a call. I sure would like to help...I will be out of the office for the next week for the holidays, but since you have not taken me up on my number of attempts to settle things with you, I am not hopefull. Because we are not used to customers being as unhappy as you clearly are, I even looked up every member from your state that was charged in October today...called each one to try to find anyone named Robin. I called them all and found no Robin. Thank you for letting me know how you ran accross that other company name. I will promptly take steps to correct the listing to be accurate.

I would start looking for a current address here at the CA Secretary of State: Corporation SMALL BUSINESS NETWORK, INC. Number: C1901196 Date Filed: 3/21/1996 Status: active Jurisdiction: California Address PO BOX 180631 CORONADO, CA 92178 Agent for Service of Process DENNIS E WALKER 1502 GLORIETTA BLVD CORONADO, CA 92118 Someone at this office should know where the current offices are located. I could not find a current NV filing. Good luck!

First, SBN was "affiliated" with other companies; now it turns out it IS/WAS these other companies? Very confusing. I apologize; the debit was on OCTOBER 24, 2005, not November 24. I typed in an "11" instead of "10". My mistake. I found the withdrawal when I balanced my checkbook at the beginning of November and I guess I wanted to stay within the same month in my own mind. Definitely my own foul up there. Search the number through an online telephone book- (800) 817-1726- and it burps out American Tele$ales with the above listed information. I didn't make it up, and would have had no way of knowing that SBN was ever affiliated with or tied to American Tele$ales anyway. The "representative" who called me never mentioned an enrollment fee followed by a yearly membership fee. He simply said a yearly membership was $99.95 to "try it out for a year". I looked at your website. It seems that SBN recruits sellers aka "agents": "SBN agents earn up to $75 commission with every member sign up! No limits! Become an agent and start earning money today! Sign up now!" This is followed by: "New Website and Resources for SBN Agents Look Now!" with a link. So, I "Looked Now". There SBN asks immediately for banking information from its "agents". Whee-ha! SBN "agents" have a vested interest in getting people to sign up under this business plan, even if it means not telling the whole story or even outright lying to get the job done, don't they? And there is no telling who was really calling me...could have been some guy sitting in his living room. It probably was not an accountable employee in SBN's own offices. From another page: About Us "Small Business Network is a California based corporation, established in 1989 dedicated to providing quality products, services, guidance and information to its membership." SBN says it is still in CA. How come? The only physical address I can find on the site is for your magazine publisher: Network News, attn: Editor 2730 Adrian Street, San Diego, CA 92110. SBN hides its registry information: SBN site information: Site http://www.sbni.com Last reboot unknown Domain sbni.com Netblock owner Pixeled Business Systems IP address 69.43.154.60 Site rank unknown Country US Nameserver ns.castshadow.com Date first seen September 1997 DNS admin [email protected] Domain Registry unknown Reverse DNS unknown Organisation unknown Nameserver Organisation unknown Pixeled Business Systems Address: 1450 Autumn Woods Place Escondido, CA 92029-4114 Phone: 858-566-6060 Fax: 858-433-9753 Hosting History: Netblock Owner: Eclipse Computer Systems, Inc. 265 Spalding Springs Lane Atlanta GA US 30350 IP address: 198.199.199.143 Last changed: 19-Feb-2002 Netblock Owner: Cyber World Internet Services Baltimore MD US 21224 IP Address: 64.23.26.224 Last changed: 15-Sep-2001 I imagine that SBN could be found from this information above by someone with clout that really wanted to know where you are located. Or a simple call to your magazine publisher might yield fruit. Will the AGs bother? I doubt it. Will I? No, because it is no longer an issue for me. I will say this: if I had seen your website first rather than being cold-called by some commission-driven agent, I would have never said "Yes" or even "Maybe". Why? I prefer not to do business with those who hide absolutely everything about themselves while asking for personal info from me. Of course, none of the information I have is correct. SBN has moved and morphed and changed its parent company name and hosting services multiple times. Even this site has a mailing address listed on it. Your "Contact Us" page is a web form and toll-free phone numbers. So, you will undoubtedly never hear from either AG, so rest in peace. Evidently, according to this latest post, I really WAS calling Small Business Network all the time. Very rudely the last couple of times in an effort to get someone's attention that we wanted out. NOW! PLEASE! And we are now back to the fact that from one year to the next, SBN NEVER had any record of any previous cancellation attempts. NEVER! Now we are back to cannot cancel a membership, ever. The complaint still stands: From 07/02 until 10/05 we were absolutely unable to get removed from the SBN database no matter how hard we tried. Every time we called we were assured by SBN that it was "taken care of". We did not realize that it was only taken care of until the next time to attempt a withdrawal. Like the Energizer bunny, SBN kept coming and coming and coming back for more. Absolutely unstoppable. Perhaps we are the only unfortunates ever in the history of the universe to be trapped in this endless loop with SBN. Maybe we are the only people who ever tried to cancel a membership unsuccessfully. Who knows? Maybe Susan knows. Or perhaps others just do not know about Rip-off Report? This is just our account of what we we through trying to cancel a membership with SBN and how the problem ultimately got dealt with. It has been a learning experience; I now hang up on those unfortunates who cold-call me! And I NEVER give my banking info to anyone.

Please do not mistake, we never disclose any of your financial information with ANY other company! American Telesales is not even an open company anylonger. I was asking you to call so I could find out how our information is even linked to that name. The 800 number on you complaint is to our office, but all the other information you have is non exsistant...That is why when you called we explained that the monies are for our membership. American Telesales is not an active business and should not be linked to our 800 number...that is why I was requesting a call from you so I could find out how they could be linked and I could fix that. We are not connected to them, and our toll free number that shows on your bank statement leads directly to us. Your bank information is not what is not safe...it is our phone number showing up as another company that we are not affiliated with and it is not even an active company. The addresses you have for us are completely out-of-date and since I try to make sure our public information is accurate that is what I was seeking from you! I did just notice that perhaps you have the wrong date? The complaint was filed on November 3rd, but your debit was November 24th? Again, I want to ensure you are taken care of and to give you the peace of mind to know this will never happen again, but since our records don't show you exsist I would need to be contacted by you. Please. We do not have any involvement with NSBA. Many of our members have signed up for both memberships and call one to cancel the other, that's all. Not by our choice, or by NSBA...but because they just signed up with us both. There is no lack of keeping our customers information secure. AGAIN, the number you have on your statement leads to the correct company, SBN. I do not know how you got the other comapny name came up in your search, that is what I wanted to find out. You're information is not and will never be shared with any other company. UNLESS YOU SIGN UP WITH THEM. We have no connection with them, nor do we sell or give out your financial information. Our enrollment fee is 99.95 and the annual dues are 239.40. These are the terms agreed to by the party who signed up for this membership. I can give you access to that conversation if you would like. We have older members that pay a different abmount, and many that have one of each membership because of the different benefits that come with each, so it is very possible for your business to have more than one membership with us. Again, this could all be solved so quickly if you just gave me a call! We have not received any AG complaints! And since you do not seem to want to give me the tools to even locate your membership there is little more I can do to help you Robin. I am sorry you had a bad experience with us, and I wish your business luck in the future. At least call so you can get our address...if you gave them the one you listed you will never hear from us, since that is not our address! It will surely never reach our hands. We are not even in Spring Valley any longer and have not had that address for years. If you want a reply to the AG they will need to send it to an active address...I would be happy to give that to you, or you can just ask one of the CSR's that answer for our address if you do not want to speak with me. You may call anytime, but the ball is in your court now since I have no record of you. Perhaps you are a competitor just attempting to make us look bad? There is a reason we do not have other complaints on this site, our members are happy and save hundreds (some even thousands) a year with our association.

Susan, Small Business Network did not debit me on 11/24/2005; American Tele$ales did. The phone number (as I stated earlier) on the Electronic Withdrawal notation on my bank statement leads directly to American Tele$ales. I have never heard of American Tele$ales, so why did they have my banking info? American Tele$ales made the withdrawal claiming (via phone as I tried again to cancel) that it was for SBN membership. It is not my responsibility to figure out how many people SBN shared my banking info with; it is yours. If American Tele$ales is withdrawing money from accounts claiming it is for SBN, you may want to address that for yourself with them. Their very recent presence on my official bank statement is how I linked SBN to American Tele$ales, Susan. I only signed up for "Small Business Network". I did not sign up for any "affiliates". No one explained to me that there were any "affiliates" involved. Tell me, just how many "friends" is SBN sharing banking info with? Besides American Tele$ales and National Small Business Alliance, that is. And now you want to "fix" it after years of fighting with you and/or American Tele$ales and/or NSBA to try to get it corrected? Oh, puh-lease. It rather seems that it is all out of the hands of SBN now anyway. The problem began with SBN and has now become entangled with other companies due to sloppy sharing procedures on the part of SBN. I don't even know if SBN still has my banking info or if it was lost by being left behind as SBN has severed its past affiliations. That is your problem to figure out, but the obvious lack of security on the part of SBN is absolutely disgraceful. Or perhaps that is the plan. Once the banking information is obtained, all the affiliates can rush in to try to claim a piece of the action, too? There were no accidental sign ups. I had one call from one person who claimed to work for Small Business Network quoting a year's membership fee of $99.95. Period. There were no other solicitations by any of these other affiliates and no permissions given for them to attempt raiding my bank account. The debit months are not different due to several memberships, because I did not have several memberships. I just suddenly had several companies that were interested in removing various amounts of money from my bank account to theirs at random times. For the "Duh" guy, Dave...it is a regular PITA to change a business checking account that has been in place for years. Merchant accounts have to be switched and legitimate electronic withdrawals have to be switched. It takes days of writing letters and sending faxes and then one can only hope that it all goes smoothly. It then requires having two open business accounts for at least a couple of months to be absolutely sure that everything has transitioned correctly. The old account must remain in place with a balance while the new one begins building a balance. It doubles the work load on the accountants, all of which a business gets charged for for however long it takes. It requires paying for new checks to be printed, while shredding the old ones that the business has already paid for having printed. It is a far cry from just running to the bank and changing accounts as one could with a personal checking account. So, DUH back at you, and no cigar for your lack of knowledge. But the bank account has been changed now. In fact, I moved it to another bank just to be safe. Susan, there is no need to worry about deleting any banking information on my account now. The attempted withdrawal in November by some company I never heard of forced me to take drastic action myself (with much aggravation and cost). The next attempted (and I have no doubt that one of these affiliates will try) withdrawal will be returned by my old bank with an Account Closed message. The problem will not recur for me ever again. I assume that SBN has heard from one or both of the AGs I sent letters to, since there seems to be a sudden interest in this problem after so long. You can explain your procedures to them and they will relay your information to me. They have all the documentation they need to know the problems have played out just as listed above on the dates listed above. If they need more, I certainly have it. Company checking account records, bank statements, I have it all and it is indisputable. Good grief...after reading this, I cannot see how you could possibly think your company could be trusted by anyone. Maybe you should address these lack of security issues within your company and with the AGs. In fact, it sounds as though SBN has so many issues to address that I am amazed that you have time to write at Rip-off Report. It seems that SBN engages in practices that may be breaking the laws of more than one state. It seems that Small Business Network has no safeguards for banking data and is happy to spread that information like dandelion fluff on the wind to many people. After which SBN begins calling them former affiliates. SBN and all its affiliates have had ample time to correct this and I have had enough of all of you. I gave SBN four frigging years to correct this!!!! Where were you for those four years, Susan? Thank you for your long overdue concern, but it is too little, too late. Tell it to the AGs. I will forward a copy of this report to both and they can draw their own conclusions about your business practices, sharing sensitive information with affiliates, and lack of security for sensitive private records. As for telling you exactly where I ammy mother did not raise any fools. I trust you and your company as far as I could throw a soaking wet elephant and with good reason, it seems. I choose to retain some anonymity for my own protection. This cookie jar is closed and I have no intention of reopening it for you and all the other hands that SBN has allowed to reach in to try to grab their share of the cookies. I have made my last phone call to attempt resolution in this matter and there is nothing that SBN can do to help me now, anyway. I have zero interest in your website or your books. I have severed my affiliation with SBN and attempted to warn others as to what joining this program may bring about according to my own experience. However, just to prove the legitimacy of this report when I do hear from the AGs I will be glad to remove any personal data and post those letters here at Rip-off Report for the further education of consumers who may choose NOT to spend years fending off Small Business Network and all its many ex-affiliates. A fair warning for small business owners who might choose NOT to have to go through the aggravation, expense and hassle of closing their bank accounts and opening new ones. That is, as I understand it, the purpose of Rip-off Report...revelation of bad business peactices (which SBN seems to be loaded with)and education for consumers. While SBN and its ex-affiliates were unable to grab more than I signed up for, getting away from these companies did ultimately cost me man-hours and money. And a lot of hours of being just plain old-fashioned mad enough to spit for all the trouble SBN caused me. Small Business Network is more than ever an enter at your own risk setup in IMHO. You might as well publish you account info on the Internet for all and sundry to see and use!

Susan, Small Business Network did not debit me on 11/24/2005; American Tele$ales did. The phone number (as I stated earlier) on the Electronic Withdrawal notation on my bank statement leads directly to American Tele$ales. I have never heard of American Tele$ales, so why did they have my banking info? American Tele$ales made the withdrawal claiming (via phone as I tried again to cancel) that it was for SBN membership. It is not my responsibility to figure out how many people SBN shared my banking info with; it is yours. If American Tele$ales is withdrawing money from accounts claiming it is for SBN, you may want to address that for yourself with them. Their very recent presence on my official bank statement is how I linked SBN to American Tele$ales, Susan. I only signed up for "Small Business Network". I did not sign up for any "affiliates". No one explained to me that there were any "affiliates" involved. Tell me, just how many "friends" is SBN sharing banking info with? Besides American Tele$ales and National Small Business Alliance, that is. And now you want to "fix" it after years of fighting with you and/or American Tele$ales and/or NSBA to try to get it corrected? Oh, puh-lease. It rather seems that it is all out of the hands of SBN now anyway. The problem began with SBN and has now become entangled with other companies due to sloppy sharing procedures on the part of SBN. I don't even know if SBN still has my banking info or if it was lost by being left behind as SBN has severed its past affiliations. That is your problem to figure out, but the obvious lack of security on the part of SBN is absolutely disgraceful. Or perhaps that is the plan. Once the banking information is obtained, all the affiliates can rush in to try to claim a piece of the action, too? There were no accidental sign ups. I had one call from one person who claimed to work for Small Business Network quoting a year's membership fee of $99.95. Period. There were no other solicitations by any of these other affiliates and no permissions given for them to attempt raiding my bank account. The debit months are not different due to several memberships, because I did not have several memberships. I just suddenly had several companies that were interested in removing various amounts of money from my bank account to theirs at random times. For the "Duh" guy, Dave...it is a regular PITA to change a business checking account that has been in place for years. Merchant accounts have to be switched and legitimate electronic withdrawals have to be switched. It takes days of writing letters and sending faxes and then one can only hope that it all goes smoothly. It then requires having two open business accounts for at least a couple of months to be absolutely sure that everything has transitioned correctly. The old account must remain in place with a balance while the new one begins building a balance. It doubles the work load on the accountants, all of which a business gets charged for for however long it takes. It requires paying for new checks to be printed, while shredding the old ones that the business has already paid for having printed. It is a far cry from just running to the bank and changing accounts as one could with a personal checking account. So, DUH back at you, and no cigar for your lack of knowledge. But the bank account has been changed now. In fact, I moved it to another bank just to be safe. Susan, there is no need to worry about deleting any banking information on my account now. The attempted withdrawal in November by some company I never heard of forced me to take drastic action myself (with much aggravation and cost). The next attempted (and I have no doubt that one of these affiliates will try) withdrawal will be returned by my old bank with an Account Closed message. The problem will not recur for me ever again. I assume that SBN has heard from one or both of the AGs I sent letters to, since there seems to be a sudden interest in this problem after so long. You can explain your procedures to them and they will relay your information to me. They have all the documentation they need to know the problems have played out just as listed above on the dates listed above. If they need more, I certainly have it. Company checking account records, bank statements, I have it all and it is indisputable. Good grief...after reading this, I cannot see how you could possibly think your company could be trusted by anyone. Maybe you should address these lack of security issues within your company and with the AGs. In fact, it sounds as though SBN has so many issues to address that I am amazed that you have time to write at Rip-off Report. It seems that SBN engages in practices that may be breaking the laws of more than one state. It seems that Small Business Network has no safeguards for banking data and is happy to spread that information like dandelion fluff on the wind to many people. After which SBN begins calling them former affiliates. SBN and all its affiliates have had ample time to correct this and I have had enough of all of you. I gave SBN four frigging years to correct this!!!! Where were you for those four years, Susan? Thank you for your long overdue concern, but it is too little, too late. Tell it to the AGs. I will forward a copy of this report to both and they can draw their own conclusions about your business practices, sharing sensitive information with affiliates, and lack of security for sensitive private records. As for telling you exactly where I ammy mother did not raise any fools. I trust you and your company as far as I could throw a soaking wet elephant and with good reason, it seems. I choose to retain some anonymity for my own protection. This cookie jar is closed and I have no intention of reopening it for you and all the other hands that SBN has allowed to reach in to try to grab their share of the cookies. I have made my last phone call to attempt resolution in this matter and there is nothing that SBN can do to help me now, anyway. I have zero interest in your website or your books. I have severed my affiliation with SBN and attempted to warn others as to what joining this program may bring about according to my own experience. However, just to prove the legitimacy of this report when I do hear from the AGs I will be glad to remove any personal data and post those letters here at Rip-off Report for the further education of consumers who may choose NOT to spend years fending off Small Business Network and all its many ex-affiliates. A fair warning for small business owners who might choose NOT to have to go through the aggravation, expense and hassle of closing their bank accounts and opening new ones. That is, as I understand it, the purpose of Rip-off Report...revelation of bad business peactices (which SBN seems to be loaded with)and education for consumers. While SBN and its ex-affiliates were unable to grab more than I signed up for, getting away from these companies did ultimately cost me man-hours and money. And a lot of hours of being just plain old-fashioned mad enough to spit for all the trouble SBN caused me. Small Business Network is more than ever an enter at your own risk setup in IMHO. You might as well publish you account info on the Internet for all and sundry to see and use!

Susan, Small Business Network did not debit me on 11/24/2005; American Tele$ales did. The phone number (as I stated earlier) on the Electronic Withdrawal notation on my bank statement leads directly to American Tele$ales. I have never heard of American Tele$ales, so why did they have my banking info? American Tele$ales made the withdrawal claiming (via phone as I tried again to cancel) that it was for SBN membership. It is not my responsibility to figure out how many people SBN shared my banking info with; it is yours. If American Tele$ales is withdrawing money from accounts claiming it is for SBN, you may want to address that for yourself with them. Their very recent presence on my official bank statement is how I linked SBN to American Tele$ales, Susan. I only signed up for "Small Business Network". I did not sign up for any "affiliates". No one explained to me that there were any "affiliates" involved. Tell me, just how many "friends" is SBN sharing banking info with? Besides American Tele$ales and National Small Business Alliance, that is. And now you want to "fix" it after years of fighting with you and/or American Tele$ales and/or NSBA to try to get it corrected? Oh, puh-lease. It rather seems that it is all out of the hands of SBN now anyway. The problem began with SBN and has now become entangled with other companies due to sloppy sharing procedures on the part of SBN. I don't even know if SBN still has my banking info or if it was lost by being left behind as SBN has severed its past affiliations. That is your problem to figure out, but the obvious lack of security on the part of SBN is absolutely disgraceful. Or perhaps that is the plan. Once the banking information is obtained, all the affiliates can rush in to try to claim a piece of the action, too? There were no accidental sign ups. I had one call from one person who claimed to work for Small Business Network quoting a year's membership fee of $99.95. Period. There were no other solicitations by any of these other affiliates and no permissions given for them to attempt raiding my bank account. The debit months are not different due to several memberships, because I did not have several memberships. I just suddenly had several companies that were interested in removing various amounts of money from my bank account to theirs at random times. For the "Duh" guy, Dave...it is a regular PITA to change a business checking account that has been in place for years. Merchant accounts have to be switched and legitimate electronic withdrawals have to be switched. It takes days of writing letters and sending faxes and then one can only hope that it all goes smoothly. It then requires having two open business accounts for at least a couple of months to be absolutely sure that everything has transitioned correctly. The old account must remain in place with a balance while the new one begins building a balance. It doubles the work load on the accountants, all of which a business gets charged for for however long it takes. It requires paying for new checks to be printed, while shredding the old ones that the business has already paid for having printed. It is a far cry from just running to the bank and changing accounts as one could with a personal checking account. So, DUH back at you, and no cigar for your lack of knowledge. But the bank account has been changed now. In fact, I moved it to another bank just to be safe. Susan, there is no need to worry about deleting any banking information on my account now. The attempted withdrawal in November by some company I never heard of forced me to take drastic action myself (with much aggravation and cost). The next attempted (and I have no doubt that one of these affiliates will try) withdrawal will be returned by my old bank with an Account Closed message. The problem will not recur for me ever again. I assume that SBN has heard from one or both of the AGs I sent letters to, since there seems to be a sudden interest in this problem after so long. You can explain your procedures to them and they will relay your information to me. They have all the documentation they need to know the problems have played out just as listed above on the dates listed above. If they need more, I certainly have it. Company checking account records, bank statements, I have it all and it is indisputable. Good grief...after reading this, I cannot see how you could possibly think your company could be trusted by anyone. Maybe you should address these lack of security issues within your company and with the AGs. In fact, it sounds as though SBN has so many issues to address that I am amazed that you have time to write at Rip-off Report. It seems that SBN engages in practices that may be breaking the laws of more than one state. It seems that Small Business Network has no safeguards for banking data and is happy to spread that information like dandelion fluff on the wind to many people. After which SBN begins calling them former affiliates. SBN and all its affiliates have had ample time to correct this and I have had enough of all of you. I gave SBN four frigging years to correct this!!!! Where were you for those four years, Susan? Thank you for your long overdue concern, but it is too little, too late. Tell it to the AGs. I will forward a copy of this report to both and they can draw their own conclusions about your business practices, sharing sensitive information with affiliates, and lack of security for sensitive private records. As for telling you exactly where I ammy mother did not raise any fools. I trust you and your company as far as I could throw a soaking wet elephant and with good reason, it seems. I choose to retain some anonymity for my own protection. This cookie jar is closed and I have no intention of reopening it for you and all the other hands that SBN has allowed to reach in to try to grab their share of the cookies. I have made my last phone call to attempt resolution in this matter and there is nothing that SBN can do to help me now, anyway. I have zero interest in your website or your books. I have severed my affiliation with SBN and attempted to warn others as to what joining this program may bring about according to my own experience. However, just to prove the legitimacy of this report when I do hear from the AGs I will be glad to remove any personal data and post those letters here at Rip-off Report for the further education of consumers who may choose NOT to spend years fending off Small Business Network and all its many ex-affiliates. A fair warning for small business owners who might choose NOT to have to go through the aggravation, expense and hassle of closing their bank accounts and opening new ones. That is, as I understand it, the purpose of Rip-off Report...revelation of bad business peactices (which SBN seems to be loaded with)and education for consumers. While SBN and its ex-affiliates were unable to grab more than I signed up for, getting away from these companies did ultimately cost me man-hours and money. And a lot of hours of being just plain old-fashioned mad enough to spit for all the trouble SBN caused me. Small Business Network is more than ever an enter at your own risk setup in IMHO. You might as well publish you account info on the Internet for all and sundry to see and use!

Susan, Small Business Network did not debit me on 11/24/2005; American Tele$ales did. The phone number (as I stated earlier) on the Electronic Withdrawal notation on my bank statement leads directly to American Tele$ales. I have never heard of American Tele$ales, so why did they have my banking info? American Tele$ales made the withdrawal claiming (via phone as I tried again to cancel) that it was for SBN membership. It is not my responsibility to figure out how many people SBN shared my banking info with; it is yours. If American Tele$ales is withdrawing money from accounts claiming it is for SBN, you may want to address that for yourself with them. Their very recent presence on my official bank statement is how I linked SBN to American Tele$ales, Susan. I only signed up for "Small Business Network". I did not sign up for any "affiliates". No one explained to me that there were any "affiliates" involved. Tell me, just how many "friends" is SBN sharing banking info with? Besides American Tele$ales and National Small Business Alliance, that is. And now you want to "fix" it after years of fighting with you and/or American Tele$ales and/or NSBA to try to get it corrected? Oh, puh-lease. It rather seems that it is all out of the hands of SBN now anyway. The problem began with SBN and has now become entangled with other companies due to sloppy sharing procedures on the part of SBN. I don't even know if SBN still has my banking info or if it was lost by being left behind as SBN has severed its past affiliations. That is your problem to figure out, but the obvious lack of security on the part of SBN is absolutely disgraceful. Or perhaps that is the plan. Once the banking information is obtained, all the affiliates can rush in to try to claim a piece of the action, too? There were no accidental sign ups. I had one call from one person who claimed to work for Small Business Network quoting a year's membership fee of $99.95. Period. There were no other solicitations by any of these other affiliates and no permissions given for them to attempt raiding my bank account. The debit months are not different due to several memberships, because I did not have several memberships. I just suddenly had several companies that were interested in removing various amounts of money from my bank account to theirs at random times. For the "Duh" guy, Dave...it is a regular PITA to change a business checking account that has been in place for years. Merchant accounts have to be switched and legitimate electronic withdrawals have to be switched. It takes days of writing letters and sending faxes and then one can only hope that it all goes smoothly. It then requires having two open business accounts for at least a couple of months to be absolutely sure that everything has transitioned correctly. The old account must remain in place with a balance while the new one begins building a balance. It doubles the work load on the accountants, all of which a business gets charged for for however long it takes. It requires paying for new checks to be printed, while shredding the old ones that the business has already paid for having printed. It is a far cry from just running to the bank and changing accounts as one could with a personal checking account. So, DUH back at you, and no cigar for your lack of knowledge. But the bank account has been changed now. In fact, I moved it to another bank just to be safe. Susan, there is no need to worry about deleting any banking information on my account now. The attempted withdrawal in November by some company I never heard of forced me to take drastic action myself (with much aggravation and cost). The next attempted (and I have no doubt that one of these affiliates will try) withdrawal will be returned by my old bank with an Account Closed message. The problem will not recur for me ever again. I assume that SBN has heard from one or both of the AGs I sent letters to, since there seems to be a sudden interest in this problem after so long. You can explain your procedures to them and they will relay your information to me. They have all the documentation they need to know the problems have played out just as listed above on the dates listed above. If they need more, I certainly have it. Company checking account records, bank statements, I have it all and it is indisputable. Good grief...after reading this, I cannot see how you could possibly think your company could be trusted by anyone. Maybe you should address these lack of security issues within your company and with the AGs. In fact, it sounds as though SBN has so many issues to address that I am amazed that you have time to write at Rip-off Report. It seems that SBN engages in practices that may be breaking the laws of more than one state. It seems that Small Business Network has no safeguards for banking data and is happy to spread that information like dandelion fluff on the wind to many people. After which SBN begins calling them former affiliates. SBN and all its affiliates have had ample time to correct this and I have had enough of all of you. I gave SBN four frigging years to correct this!!!! Where were you for those four years, Susan? Thank you for your long overdue concern, but it is too little, too late. Tell it to the AGs. I will forward a copy of this report to both and they can draw their own conclusions about your business practices, sharing sensitive information with affiliates, and lack of security for sensitive private records. As for telling you exactly where I ammy mother did not raise any fools. I trust you and your company as far as I could throw a soaking wet elephant and with good reason, it seems. I choose to retain some anonymity for my own protection. This cookie jar is closed and I have no intention of reopening it for you and all the other hands that SBN has allowed to reach in to try to grab their share of the cookies. I have made my last phone call to attempt resolution in this matter and there is nothing that SBN can do to help me now, anyway. I have zero interest in your website or your books. I have severed my affiliation with SBN and attempted to warn others as to what joining this program may bring about according to my own experience. However, just to prove the legitimacy of this report when I do hear from the AGs I will be glad to remove any personal data and post those letters here at Rip-off Report for the further education of consumers who may choose NOT to spend years fending off Small Business Network and all its many ex-affiliates. A fair warning for small business owners who might choose NOT to have to go through the aggravation, expense and hassle of closing their bank accounts and opening new ones. That is, as I understand it, the purpose of Rip-off Report...revelation of bad business peactices (which SBN seems to be loaded with)and education for consumers. While SBN and its ex-affiliates were unable to grab more than I signed up for, getting away from these companies did ultimately cost me man-hours and money. And a lot of hours of being just plain old-fashioned mad enough to spit for all the trouble SBN caused me. Small Business Network is more than ever an enter at your own risk setup in IMHO. You might as well publish you account info on the Internet for all and sundry to see and use!

Close your account and open a new one. What's the big deal?

I would like to correct this issue you are having, but I have done the following research: We have no members in Amsterdam, Georgia We have no members in Georgia that signed up on or around 9/21/2001 We have no members named Robin in Georgia We did not bill any members 11/24/2005 We have two memberships we offer, one is $95.40 and the other is $239.40...and it sounds like your company may be tied to two seperate memberships. This is further reason why your debit months are different! I would like to correct this and ensure you are not billed again so please give us a call. We are open from 6am-2:30 PST. You can ask for me directly and we can make sure everything is corrected and cancelled. If you would like, for additional peace I can even delete your bank information from our system. This is not something we usually offer, but I would be more than happy to do it for you! Again we do need to do some research and make sure ALL memberships accociated with your company are cancelled! We are not affiliated with American Telesales and have not been for a very long time. I am concerned our names are crossed at all, so I would be greatful to find out how you got them associated with us? We do worry since one of our top competitive companies, National Small Business Aliiance, used to sale our product and we have a lot of members that ended up enrolled in both associations. www.sbni.com is our company web site, and if you would like to receive and honorary user name so you can still enjoy our discount please let me know when we speak! We have recently added a national bookstore and some new insurance options as well. For our members that use these benefits they can usually save over a thousand dollars a year.

I thought about a certified letter, but somewhere along the way the debits stopped being made under the heading of "Small Business Network" and changed to this American Tele$ales phone number as the entity making the withdrawal. I strongly suspect that SBN has sold its records. SBN may not even exist anymore as I was unable to find a website for it. American Tele$ales darn sure exists, though. They are pickpockets because I never signed up for anything with American Tele$ales. If SBN is defunct then no one has any right to be drawing money from an account for a membership to a group that no longer exists. I am sure the two state AGs will figure it out between them. This is just a friendly word of warning to anyone who may be approached by a sales call claiming to be from Small Business Network. Just say "NO". Throw your phone out of the window and make a break for it! Run!!

Have you tried sending them a registered letter. They will have to sign for it and there will be your proof.