On November 4th, 2009 I entered into a refinance contract with Quicken Loans. At that time I was given a Rate Lock Agreement with a Derrick Eppich Lender Representative at 16245 North Pima Rd., Building A Scottsdale, AZ 85260 on one loan document and 20555 Victor Pkwy, Livonia, MI 48152 on another loan document. I filed with them the following required documents:
Most recent pay stub(s) reflecting a minimum of 30 days year-to-date earnings
All W-2 forms from 2007 and 2008
Statement showing the judgment and/or tax lien had been paid in full
Documentation for 2nd job income (I am a member of the Army Reserves)
Signed request for transcript of Tax Return (Form 4506-T) for 1040S
Information regarding appraisal (I had had an appraisal done on May 29th, 2009 and was informed that I could use this appraisal for the loan) at that time my home appraised for $125,000 and I was told this appraisal would be the used for the loan since it was a FHA approved appraisal.
Credit Inquiry Explanation Letter
All documents were submitted in a timely matter. At that time I informed them we had not filed our 2008 taxes yet and had an extension approved by the IRS. I was told the extension papers were good enough to cover the 2008 tax request.
I was given an Interest Rate Lock Agreement of a 4.5% interest rate, loan discount fee of .625%. My loan amount was to be $120,472 (payoff amount of $101,061 and $13,843 for second mortgage payoff, $2,867 closing fees, $2,943 prepaid items/escrows/MIP [?]). It was o be a FHA 15yr fixed. And I was to receive $157.10 at closing. I was then requested to give them a $400 deposit for appraisal (I was told this deposit was be refunded to me on closing because I had supplied my own FHA appraisal) I empathically told them I did not have the required deposit (I did get a loan for the amount). I was told this would take approximately 3 weeks to prepare the paperwork for signing. After a week I was told Derrick no longer worked for the company and my loan was transferred to Ms. Tynina Washington, Sr. Client Care Specialist. I was then sent the following email 4 Dec from Ms. Washington: Hi Douglas, per our conversations, this is what is needed to complete the loan process.1. Please provide name, phone number and policy number for your insurance 2. Please provide all pages of your personal tax returns. Thanks Ty. I provided the information requested emphasizing the fact that my 2008 taxes were still be prepared and was again told not to worry about it since I had an IRS extension in place. I then received a call from Ms. Washington informing me that the extension from the IRS was no longer acceptable and that I had to get them the returns for 2008. Since they were still in the process of being complied by my ex-wifes account (because she is a small business owner, I had to wait until her corporation and business taxes were completed in order to finish my personal taxes). I finally got them finished and had the return faxed from the accountants directly to Ms. Washington. I was told that this was all that was needed and that I would be contacted within the week to arrange for my closing documents to be signed. 2 days later I received another call from Ms. Washington that my tax forms were not acceptable because it did not have an IRS stamp confirming they were filed with the IRS. I was also told at that time that my appraisal was also no longer valid and that I had to get another appraisal done. I was very concerned at this time that my lock in date was approaching (Dec 21) and I did not think I could get the required paperwork to them. I was informed by Ms. Washington that I did not have to worry because I was working on them and that my locks in rate and loan specifics were extended since they knew I was working on them. I once again told them I was not comfortable having to pay for another appraisal since I did not have available funds to do so. I was also concerned that I might not get the loan and was assured that the appraisal was just a formality and I need not worry. I got them the IRS stamped return and arranged for another appraisal. I then had to contact Ms. Washington that I had not been contacted by their appraiser and asked for her help. On Dec 17th I was finally able to arrange an appraisal after trying for 2 weeks to get them to come out. So on the 22nd of December some person named Andy calls and asks me where I came up with the $125,000 figure for my property and I inform him about the appraisal I sent to them and is in my loan package. He states he has never seen it in my loan package and I then ask what happened to my loan specialist (Ms. Washington) and I am informed the loan has been turned over to him and I would need to deal with him to close my loan. So their appraisal comes back at $112,000, $13,000 less than the appraisal I started with. Now this Andy states I need to came up with $5,000 in order to get my loan approved. Now today (23 Dec, 09) I heard a report when they were interviewing the Secretary of the Treasury that housing prices were up 2.3%. So somehow my house lost over 10% of its value from November to December. And now they justify keeping all the fees they charged knowing I cannot come up with $5,000 to complete the loan process. So now I cant even apply for another loan because their appraisal makes it impossible for me to even qualify. I feel every time I met their requirements they changed them so they could delay the process and force me to get another appraisal devaluing my property and thereby placing a $5,000 requirement to get it and meet the requirements. But all they did was make it impossible for me to complete the transaction.
On December 23, 2009 I discovered on the website consumeraffairs.com and the Better Business Bureau where hundreds of complaints just like mine have been posted against Quicken Loans for the same underhanded practices.
usafhamortgage
poughkeepsie,#2Consumer Suggestion
Thu, February 04, 2010
Appraisers have been looking at the values of houses in a way is the glass half full or half empty. Its's a tough job in this market place. It's a very thank less job. It's like being a police officer. Everyone wants and needs the police but once you see them in your rear view mirror you hate them all of a sudden. Once your appraisal comes in low you dislike the appraiser. With that being said i have been in this business 12 years and this has been a common theme at every company. So i know how you feel the worst call I have to make is when appraisal comes in low. I have been able to combat this by pointing customer to factual data prior to appraiser coming out. Documentation beats conversation with appraisers.
Stuff like recent sales that have sold same style houses and size in the neighborhood. Keep in mind has to be within the last 6 months or very close. You have to look harder then ever. Also keep in mind that some houses are sold oustide of what is called in a lot of States Multiple listing services making it even harder. Also a lot of appraisers just use the MLS. So prior to appraiser coming out and booking that appt. talk it up. Talk to realtor or go online and get the facts. Talk it up with the apprasier then set appointment. The appraiser should be able to save you your $350-$450 dollars if you are completely out in left field with the value. They can't tell you a value over the phone. Also Keep in Mind bankers and lenders can't talk to appraisers at all. This info and facts can only come from the homeowners themselves. They are the ones who have to feel comfortable with the value and loan because they are paying the bill for the next 15 to 30 years.
If you have any questions or need help feel free to contact me maybe rippoffreport will post my cotact info? Below
Christena24
United States of America#3UPDATE EX-employee responds
Fri, January 29, 2010
Well, I see Quicken is still up to its old tricks! I worked for them straight out of college when I was 22. I knew nothing of mortgages let alone finance. Two weeks into my "Quicken University" Mortgage training (which focused on sales) I was put of the phone to get people's SS# so I could pull credit reports. I had to get so many a day so I didn't care if the "client" told me they were in BK I'd still pull the credit just to check one off my list. 3 weeks later I was on the floor full time (and by full time I mean at least 12 hours a day) Taking people's information and passing it on to my team leader because quite frankly after 5 weeks I still wasn't sure what to do with it, and of course I still had a quota of phone numbers, credit pulls, and credit card numbers to hit. The first month or so was awful as people were asking questions that any "mortgage expert" should know so you become good at ways to conceal your ignorance while you press the mute button to yell the question to someone near by. However, one message was made very clear to me, "Just get the credit card number" I was told all things could be figured out from there. The very first time I "presented" a loan a senior banker (he'd been there 6 months longer than me!) was put on the phone with me to listen in. The senior banker and my team leader wouldn't let me get off the phone with the client(who had made it very clear he had no interest in giving the deposit) The poor man eventually got so desperate to get off that he gave a fake credit card number. I was also encouraged to lie to the customers, "whatever it takes" I routinely told people that I was married, had kids, had worked at banks or other mortgage companies, that I'd been at Quicken a long time, that I had bought many houses and my personal favorites that I was "one of Quicken's top bankers" or "I'll be your banker for life". Ha! All of these were completely untrue. One girl in the cube next to me once was having trouble getting a credit card number so she told the guy that he'd get the Quickbooks software every year free if he did the loan. He went through with it...I wonder how that turned out. Truthfully, the bankers don't really care, no one lasts there long enough for it to matter. Sadly, once you're there 6 days a week 12 hours a day you start to forget you're dealing with real people, the whole thing becomes a game. If you can get away with it then do it and that includes overcharging people.
I personally left in Nov. of 2006 after being seriously overworked and underpaid. The feather that broke the camels back however was when Quicken introduced their option ARM loan, (which was basically a negative amortization loan masquerading as something better) and I refused to sell it because it was a bad loan. My division boss emailed me and demanded to know why I was one of only 3 people who had yet to sell it. I was given two weeks in which time I had to sell one or be blacklisted {"Just tell them that house values go up by so many percent a year so they'll never be upside down" hahahahaha I guess I was on to something back then} Anyways, after two weeks I hadn't sold one and was taken in for a talking to...I quit after that. I was an amazing day and the first time I'd seen the sun in 10 months.
Although to be fair working there was a surreal experience most of the bankers were under 25 years old, the rest were tyically under 30 (even my boss was 27) I spent my days throwing around Quicken provided balls with the other kids while on the phone, dutifully put my customers' sensitive information in the monster faced shredder bins, waited for the occasional days days in which they would bring us donuts or hotdogs, watched as workers dressed as fairies or mice would walk through the office, had pie throwing contests, a battle of the bands where employees formed musical groups, the Gilbert awards, a mock Oscars for employees, I won tickets to baseball games (provided I come back after the game was over of course) won gift certificates and of course had free slushies, popcorn and cappuccino all day. All this was very cool although I not sure what purpose it served as it does nothing for the customers and it certainly provided me with nothing more than a distraction. Although, I guess if you are offering a job no adult would be willing to do and your only option left is kids you have no choice but to cater to your audience....
Oh and as a final note it's funny to see that Dan has clearly hired people to handle the PR nightmare that is on this website. Good luck with that!
And to the author just stand your ground its just a game of chicken, they're waiting to see who will cave first and they're hoping it's you. Quicken isn't always the devil but you can do much better.
DanSucksAss
Detroit,#4UPDATE EX-employee responds
Wed, January 27, 2010
Get a load of this photo below of Jay Farner closing a sale. LOL!
ABC
Phoenix,#5UPDATE EX-employee responds
Mon, January 25, 2010
I can't believe how I didn't see my post reflecting the view of someone that works at Quicken. All employees talk about how their fellow coworkers don't know a d**n about the mortgage industry and are only trained how to take a credit card for the $500 deposit. I will try and be more clear in the future. By the way, if you are trying to say that only someone that works at Quicken would tell you that builder upgrades are worth any adjustments to an appraisal these days than I feel sorry for whomever you may work for now.
x
Arizona,#6UPDATE EX-employee responds
Thu, January 21, 2010
Look, I am very sorry that anyone has to deal with Quicken Loans. The fact of the matter is that the idiot rebutting your posts is working for Quicken. Quicken, sir, is a chop shop. They hire anyone and everyone the can that has no industry experience so that they may brainwash them into believing that they will make a huge salary, while working them to death. So what happened is you were taken in as a client by people who did not know what they were doing. The whole objective of upper management is to play a numbers game. So many phone calls = so many new loan submissions = so many closings. so you are not a client to them, but rather a number. Rather than really research your situation and create a custom tailored solution, they "throw your file at a wall and see if it sticks". Not only that, but they have no good programs to help unique situations. So the basics are: deal with an experienced broker who knows what he is doing, not a starving, underpaid, overworked, inexperienced idiot who has been taught how to sell, but not to do a mortgage. Sorry for your experience. They really don't deserve the success that they have accumulated over the years.
ABC
Phoenix,#7UPDATE EX-employee responds
Mon, January 11, 2010
For one, I am not employed at Quicken so I am not really trying to answer your question because I don't really care all that much about you. Since I do not have your appraisal handy, I can't comment on your "identical" comp on page 7. However, if I were to take a guess, page 7 would probably reflect comps 4,5, and 6. This would indicate that this house you are referring to is 1. Sold a longer time ago than what would be considered reasonable to use at the current time or 2. Is not actually sold and is just a listing, which would tell me that it isn't worth much at all for a comp.
There is no need to get upset because the sink in your utility room is not worth anything.
Douglas Salewsky
Camby,#8Author of original report
Mon, January 11, 2010
You still have not answered the questions on how 2 exact houses with the same footage can be so different in prices or how one of them can lose over 90 sq ft according to the tax documents and lose a room between two apprasials. This indicates something is wrong. Oviesly the $5,000 you lost out on by my not falling for your bait and switch.
ABC
Phoenix,#9UPDATE EX-employee responds
Sun, January 10, 2010
In regards to the apprasail: Quicken does use a non biased appraisal as does all lenders these days due to the HVCC laws. Also, the majority of things you mentioned your home has makes no difference whatsoever to an appraised value. Cabinets in the garage $0, wired stereo $0, water filtration $0, utility sink $0, energy standards $0 (at least you didn't say you recently painted or have new carpet). Square footage should be determined by the tax office, so these should be the same.
In regards to the employees (in my opinion): While there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,100 "mortgage bankers" (Quicken is more of a broker or correspondent than bank, so I am not sure why they are called bankers. They will claim otherwise, but if I am wrong why would the "bankers" need to take the broker licensing exams?), only maybe 200 of them have any sort of real knowledge. So you have about a 80% chance of speaking to someone that doesn't know anything about a home other than their parents may have owned one. As long as they can get you to give them your credit card information for the deposit they will have a position at Quicken Loans. Most of the training that goes on at Quicken has nothing to do with actual mortgages. The training is based on how to respond to someone that says they wants to talk to their spouse, the rate is higher than what someone else is offering, the costs are too high, or any other objections you might have. The reason your "banker" did this to you is because he was told by his "leader" that if he didn't keep his averages up he will need to work from 8 to 8 M-F and probably will need to come in Saturday and maybe Sunday.
ABC
Phoenix,#10UPDATE EX-employee responds
Sun, January 10, 2010
In regards to the apprasail: Quicken does use a non biased appraisal as does all lenders these days due to the HVCC laws. Also, the majority of things you mentioned your home has makes no difference whatsoever to an appraised value. Cabinets in the garage $0, wired stereo $0, water filtration $0, utility sink $0, energy standards $0 (at least you didn't say you recently painted or have new carpet). Square footage should be determined by the tax office, so these should be the same.
In regards to the employees: While there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,100 "mortgage bankers" (Quicken is more of a broker or correspondent than bank, so I am not sure why they are called bankers. They will claim otherwise, but if I am wrong why would the "bankers" need to take the broker licensing exams?), only maybe 200 of them have any sort of real knowledge. So you have about a 80% chance of speaking to someone that doesn't know anything about a home other than their parents may have owned one. As long as they can get you to give them your credit card information for the deposit they will have a position at Quicken Loans. Most of the training that goes on at Quicken has nothing to do with actual mortgages. The training is based on how to respond to someone that says they wants to talk to their spouse, the rate is higher than what someone else is offering, the costs are too high, or any other objections you might have. The reason your "banker" did this to you is because he was told by his "leader" that if he didn't keep his averages up he will need to work from 8 to 8 M-F and probably will need to come in Saturday and maybe Sunday.
Douglas Salewsky
Camby,#11Author of original report
Sun, January 10, 2010
MovingForward
Wellington,#12General Comment
Sat, January 02, 2010
Just a couple of comments to the OP regarding market value and refinancing:
1) The lender does not set the value of your home. In fact, as of May 2009 the lender does not even hire the appraiser! Look of Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) that became effective May 1 2009. The lender has to go through an appraisal management company (AMC) to order the appraisal. It DOES create valuation issues but that is not as a result of the lender. It creates issues because the AMC's have a tendancy to use inexperienced appraisers that are from out of the area. FHA appraisals are good for 4 months only (as of Oct 2009). Prior to Oct the appraisals were good for 6 months. HOWEVER, in a downward trending market (many areas of the country are experiencing loss of market value) the lender is going to want an accurate valuation as of the date of refinance.
2) FHA is a full documentation loan. You can not get financing without having filed the previous years taxes. Your extension would have been good until Oct, but after that you would have to show the filed tax return. This is SOP. Most of the loans today are full doc loans. The only way the extension would have worked is if you had been able to close prior to the expiration of the IRS extension in Oct.
It does sound like your loan officers could have been more knowledgeable or more communicative. Remember the lender did not make any money on this transaction either because they get paid when the loan funds. I am not defending this lender but what you describe as issues in your complaint were not as a result of this particular lender, but a result of the tightening underwriting requirements throughout the industry right now.
exqlbanker
USA#13UPDATE EX-employee responds
Thu, December 31, 2009
I worked for QL for 2 years. I left because my other business was growing and needed more attention. These people are absolutely wonderful. Let me address two major misunderstandings that are common amongst this thread.
1. The deposit: The $300-$500 deposit is collected up front to "seal the deal." At this point, the customer has agreed to either order an appraisal, lock in an interest rate, or agree to the terms of the loan that's being quoted. The customer is well informed, as we were trained, to make sure he or she advised that the deposit is refunded at the time of closing. Think about it, an appraisal costs $300. When a deposit is taken, the customer DOES NOT pay the appraiser (as other lenders require). Those funds are applied toward the appraisal and any processing fees at the time of closing. If circumstances such as a low appraisal, buyers remorse, or any other unknown factors surface, and the customer backs out, QL has covered themselves with that deposit.
2. There is a pending lawsuit against QL. However, a judgment has not been decided upon and they have not been proven guilty of not paying over time. Many companies have pending lawsuits for many reasons because the law allows anyone to sue anyone at any time for any reason. When I took the job, I was informed of the hours and responsibilities before I took the position. NO QL Banker is promised an hourly wage, neither is the salary based on a 40 hour work week. Having a company with 50 employees, I now can sort-of comprehend how disgruntled former employees will twist the truth and join a class action law suit. By the way, I made over $150,000 in that two year period with commission and salary and I thank them every day for the many trainings and skills they equipped us with, many of which I implemented in my business. Honestly, they treat their employees like gold, and thats why they were voted the best place to work several years in a row. In the worst economy, Detroit, QL was pumping out so many jobs and taking great care of their staff.
Please take these complaints with a grain of salt. The mortgage business is a very thankless world. They provide the means to purchase or refinance the home of your dreams or your shack, depending on how you look at it and yet we punish them with complaints. In 2006, QL closed over $2 Billion worth of loans and saved people millions of dollars in the process. Since they started over 20 years ago, they've closed hundreds of thousands of loans and there are 200+ silly complaints on here. It's not even worth their time to put someone on here answering questions and complaints, yet they do to maintain a strong reputation. Folks, do not believe everything you read. Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't.
Before you write complaint, I advise you to speak to RVP and explain your situation. More than likely there is a satisfying solution to your issue. How do I know? Now a customer of mine, the Vice President of QL personally contacted one of my upset customers (when I worked there of course) and came up with a solution for him. Even though the customer didn't close, we we're still able to refund his deposit and we ate all the fees just to make him happy. As a former employee, I urge anyone who has had a good experience either working there or a customer to say something positive. Please no criticizing, condemning or complaining, just pure compliments.
Thanks for reading my thoughts on QL. Hope it helped you.
Kelly at QuickenLoans
Livonia,#14UPDATE Employee
Wed, December 30, 2009
Hi, thanks for posting. I'm sorry about your experience and I'd really like to look into it with you. Can you contact me directly? [email protected]
Couple things:
I'm not sure why you were told an appraisal from May could be used. FHA appraisals are only good for 4 months. I understand you heard in the news that home prices have gone up, but that is a very generalized statement, probably intended for the country as a whole. Home values vary by city, even down to your street. That's why appraisals are only good for a short amount of time - as new comparable homes in your area are sold, your home value is adjusted accordingly. It's completely possible that there have been a few foreclosures in your area over the last year and that has brought your home value down.
Thats being said, I'd like to note that we have absolutely no control over what your house appraises for. That's why we hire 3rd party, unbiased appraisers. Lending on a home is a risk and just like you, we have to make sure that risk is justified. The appraisal does that.
Also, if your home value came in too low, we would deny your loan based on that. In a denial situation, we would refund any money not spent on your behalf. So, if you gave us $500 as a deposit and we spent $300 on your appraisal, you would get $200 back. We don't keep anything if a loan is denied. We have no reason to undervalue homes - we gain nothing by working with a client we cannot help. For more information on our deposit, please visit our site: https://www.quickenloans.com/about/quicken-loans-deposit
Again, please contact me so I can look into your specific loan further. I'm happy to help.
Thanks,
Kelly
Quicken Loans