Complaint Review: GLENDALE SPORTING CLUB - GLENDALE California

Well where should I start? Mr. McAdams I understand ur frustration. Why couldnt the Father of the 16(25 according to you) year old come up and ask you why you were following her around the gym and stalking her? I agree the way the Father handled the situation wasnt right but at the same time. You magnified this situation, farther than it had to go. By law yes, technically speaking he should have gone to jail. But honestly, HE PUT HIS FINGER ON YOU. Time is too precious to have it wasted on somone like him. But I guess some people crave attention more than others. THIS ONE IS FOR EVERYONE WHO HATES ON ARMENIANS: Im Armenian and very proud. Im 22 yrs old from LA. Im christian and brought up in a very good family. What I want people to understand from what Im about to write is that REGARDLESS OF ETHNICITY, there are good and bad people in every race. Some less, some more. Belive me when I telll you, there are times when I want to kill some Armenians. But not because theyre Armenian, but because of the way they act. Everyone sees loud, obnoxious, speakers bumping, cursing, rude guys right? Let me telll you somthing, all that is true. But what people dont see is the hardworking, god loving, generous people that are there. My parents came here with NOTHING in 87. They came with the shirts on their backs and a couple hundred dollars. Today we have a big house, 6 cars, a successfull business and life is good(and not one illegal job done.....how bout that??). I myself make very very good money in the insurance industry and have my own recycling center.And I still have plans to make even more money. Whats my point right? Well obviously this doesnt apply to all the armenians out there who do illegal things to make the all mighty dollar. But it does apply to all armenians who do make alot of money through an honest living. How long have hispanics and blacks been here? Hundreds of years correct? And yet theyre stuck in the same place they were a hundred years ago and a hundred years before that. Armenians have been coming here predominantly for about 25 years. And from a business point of view are running circles around other ethnicities, making them dizzy. Again im not a racist person at all, I judge people on their actoins not on the color of their skin. If you were to take your time and really think about it? HERE IS A FUNNY STORY.....WHICH WILL SHOW WHATS WORSE I used to work at the burbank mall. There was this one white guy, a friend of mines. He had gotten into a arguement with an armenian and some wordsd were exchanged. He was heated and was talking out of his a*s, about how Armenian people are this and that. Some of the things he was saying was how Armenians are so bullshit, how they stink, how they live in apartments just so they can drive a expensive mercedes and how the most of the time the mercedes's are salvages. Blah blah blah. You know I wish People would grow a brain, if they could find it. I went up to him and said do you live in a Apt? Yes he said and I said what king of car do you drive? He realized what I was getting at. What business is it of yours what someone else drives or where he lives? If your a good enough man then go buy one yourself, and get out of that hoopty. I asked him whats the WORST quality you can think of about Armenians. The worst he could think of was that we are mean, stinky, loud animals. Hmm ok, ill accept that. And yet when a 14 year old hispanic girl becomes pregnant because shes a good catholic and is supposed to be a virgin till marriage and happens to disagree with the idea of abortion. A baby having a baby. I guess it happens so much, people have gotten used to it already. Its become a cliche of sorts. If you ask me bringinng in a Innocent child into this world at that age and messing up your life in the process is one of the worst things you could do. Armenians understand what it is to have a child and to have a real family. Hispanic and black people are having kids at a alarming rate and on top of all that hold the highest poverty rates in the Country. Where do you think our tax money goes to? Welfare where else, just so little juan and juanita can be taken care of. Hispanic and black gangs are killing each other EVERY OTHER DAY, and taking inncocent bystanders with them. LIFE HAS ONE MAIN PURPOSE, not for everyone but generally speaking. Please, read this carefully because it may save your life. Its so simple but for some reason people dont get it. If you make good money then your life will be easier and more enjoyable. You will have a nice car, nice house, nice clothes, vacations, good relations with other people etc.(hmm dont armenians have alot of that....honest or not). People love to hate on people that have things. If armenians were not loud and stuff but still had money, would you hate on them in the back of your mind? whats the point of all this? Why dont you really look at the real negatives in every race and figure out which ones worse. Armenians are not liked because they are loud and annoying but also because they are soooo successfull in this world. They see opportunities in this world and they take it. Legal or not, we are a group of people that have come back from annihalation by the turks. And shown what we can do. People hate on us because we help each other out and always have each other backs no matter what. There iis so much stuff I can say, I could really go on for hours. But Ill say one more thing. As far as looking after each other and helping out. I have not witnessed no other race in this world so far, look after each other like we do. There is nothing wrong with takinng the bus, but at the same time I will never allow my sister to be on one and that goes for any other friend. Why because i can take her whereever she needs to go whenever. I see little hispanic children on buses by themselves and I want to choke the parents. I see them on the street at night walking alone, or parents walk with their childred behind them. Anyway, im done I hope I got through to somone. MAKE MOST OF YOUR LIFE AND HELP EACH OTHER OUT. YOULL SEE HOW MUCH EASIER LIFE GETS. DONT JUDGE PEOPLE BY A GROUP, ONLY AS INDIVIDUALS. STOP HATING ON ARMOS JUST CAUSE WE FIGURED OUT HOW TO USE THE SYSTEM TO OUR ADVANTAGE AND LEFT EVERYBODY ELSE CLUELESS. LIVE AND LEARN GUYS

Guys,...no matter what the contract ... It does not absolve the club from liability relating to criminal activity including assult and battery. PERIOD... No where in the USA can a person whether legit or not...cannot pursue a assult & battery on another...even if justified...

I am half Armenian and I use to work at the 24 hour fitness club in Glendale for 3 years straight while I was attending Cal State LA which I got a BS in Psychology from. Dean McAdams should pull out his original club membership agreement (which he did sign) that explains in plain english an entire paragraph in which you RELEASE ALL LIABILITY and hold 24 hour fitness harmless regarding any incident at any of its clubs with any of its members! In other words YOU HAVE NO CASE BECAUSE YOU SIGNED THIS LEGAL CONTRACT. If you go around assuming that XXX company is required or should provide you with a safe enviorment...you must be living in a different planet or are simply narrowminded. DO NOT EXPECT OTHERS TO LOOK OUT FOR YOUR SAFETY AS THAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND NO ONE ELSES. I do have to agree with most people on here that Armenians are VERY, VERY, VERY,VERY,VERY rude people with little values/morals and are ANYTHING BUT law-bidding citizens. Armenians come from a country that has no order therefore when they arrive here in the US they bring this negative image with them which in turn makes them not care about what the law says...they dont care about laws or anybody else but themselves.

Logic is logic... it's the price you pay for the life you choose!!! I thought this was a Health Spa Issue and not a HATE on Armenia's... but it clearly states that McAdams wanted to get some cheap advertising with being a LAIR... ooopppss I meant to say a Lawyer. or whatever position he hold is the legal department... Life is too short to b***h and complain... move on. Find a place where you're welcome... stop hitting on young girls whatever the race may be... find someone who's father is too old and you could defend yourself against. For GODS sakes... he touched me with his finger... come on now. You wouldn't b***h and complain if the Girl touched you with her finger... Before I started writing I told myself I will not be sucked into this racial battle, because if any of you racist's talking trash online where no one knows who you are and what you look like stepped foot in Glendale and went up to one of those Armenians you're so hating on and showed your HATRED... then you will get a lesson in Living ;) But ohh well... It is America where the dog can bark on the other side of the fence and you can't do anything to shut the dog up... if you do, it's Battery. However, your business is your business and I have no interest in it... all you racist perverts who just write crap... That is what makes America so great... it allows SHMUCKS like you to live here, yet gives you the right to hate and talk trash (freedom of speech) to Any Race or religion... DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO FRESNO? or maybe if you've been to VEGAS... Let me remind you that 50% Vegas Strip is owned by a Armenian. FOR the record... I'm not ARMENIAN... Just married to a Wonderful Armenian who can cook, clean, and take care of my kids and family... unlike Mr. Happily Married Guy who is soo hoottt that he get's fallowed into the Sauna. Go back home to your wife buddy... Okay... this is one of the most ridicules posts I've ever written. Obviously McAdams is a SHMUCK who is a racist and a hatter... and has started a post for SHMUCKS. Now what if the Father of the girl with a thick ARMENIAN accent was approaching your wife in a BAR... would you have the cohunes to step up to him and tell him that's your wife or would you call the law enforcement and the bar manager.... what a shmuck! Get a Life Dush Bag and stop hating America is based on crime and illegal activities so deal with it. Bush killing all those innocent Iraq's is not crime, but a Armenian touching you with his finger is. FORGET ABOUT IT!

I used to work for 24 hour fitness and I just found myself the beneficiary of a class action lawsuit. So, there is no doubt to me that 24 Hour Fitness has some restructuring to do. Also, it is alarming to see how no matter what the matter is American's overt or repressed racism will undoubtedly rear its ugly head. This started out as a founded complaint and before long the complaintant dropped some of his hidden racist issues onto us. All this did was open the door for others to chime in with equally baffling and unrelated blather about race and its relevance to this case. Good job. Ironically enough, to the African-American gentleman who thinks that by being black that gives him some seperate and deserved green light to speak on this matter with a certain level of insight...........equally shameful. Americans, keep proving why we are the most racist and hypocritical nation on the globe.

Hmmmm.....what was the business that was originally mentioned here? I can hardly remember with all of the useless posts here. Rip-off Report.com says they will only tolerate useful and to-the-point comments. I just don't understand how they let all of this baloney make it onto the rebuttal portion of this report. Sure, these are valid subjects. But not on here. This is about BUSINESS rip-offs! Not about racial slurs and stereotyping. That is a battle to be fought somewhere else. Did anyone here really offer a viable solution to any of the original problem's details? Don't think so.

24 Hour Fitness is non of the above. Those who believe violating the law of the land is justified under certain circumstances, do not believe in law. The central incident associated with the report being responded to is unfortunate and appaling. The gentleman who threaten and assaulted the member, Armenian or not, should have been banned from the all 24 Hour fitness centers, and the offended member should have been protected. The law should be impartial and colorless. With emphasis on "Should be" 24 Hour Fitness goal, like countless other organizations, is the bottom lime. 24 Hour excells in one other commercial aspect, and that is bottom feeding. They want your money, and do not want to give you anything that costs them, such as service, which includes customer service, enough working equipment, staff to assist you, a hygenically clean environment, etc. And, when it comes time to deal with a real problem, they have no clue. It is more profitable no to care and hide behind any "skirt" they can find. What gives them the ability to be like this and flourish are: CONTRACT, ARBITRATION & LARGE LEGAL DEPARTMENT No disrespect to your intelligence, but "Buyer be aware!" is the phrase that is helpful in all situation. Know what you are getting into. Do your homework by getting to know the company through this and other Web services, don't let the salesman pressure you, definitely do not rely solely on his/her words, read the contract, especially the fine prints, all before you join. The organizations in the fitness industry are more or less alike, especially when there is a problem. The only difference is, 24 Hour Fitness is at the top of the heap. My sympathy goes to all that have been shafted by the ownership society. P.S. A note to those who have rebuttaled: Neither the problem nor the solution is the race, it is the person, st...d.

Here are some MORE Famous Armenians Mark Garagos - Attorney who defended Scott Peterson Benny Hinn - Crooked Faith Healer Preacher who rips off MILLIONS of poor saps. The largest (8 BILLION DOLLARS)Medical insurance fraud in history was done by a gang of Armenians. Go to LAPDONLINE.ORG and look at ALL the Armenians on the Most Wanted List. Ask ANY Glendale - non-armo - and he will tell you what thirs world cave dwellers these armenian animals REALLY ARE! You can all thank Ronald Reagan for giving these bastards REFUGEE STATUS in 1985 to flood our country and ruin it!

It would appear this went from a simple assault and battery or at the very least a gross miscommunication, to hate in Glendale. Some of the comments made "it (Glendale) is ours move out" etc are in the least threats within themselves, almost to the point of inciting hatred and violence. Let's take the incident on face value - in fact I would love a response from the Perky girl and her father. According to the information disclosed an assault and battery was commited and IS punishable according to the definition of assault and battery. This is regardless of injury, but of intent and the ability to carry out the threat. As we all know violence is such an easy method and any bloody fool can harm others - and after reading the responses - I can understand why he felt treatened and his life was a risk. I am adding the legal definitions for assult and battery, so there can be no doubt that the law was broken and as such is subject to investigation and prosecution. assault A physical act of threatening another with force or threat of force. The perpetrator usually must be capable of carrying through with the attack. It is important to note that the intended victim does not need to know of the peril. Aggravated assault is usually considered an attack connected with the commission of another crime. assault and battery The joint act of threat (assault) and actual unlawful touching intending to harm (battery). Both acts are criminal. Hopefully, things will change and improve as we learn to grow together - oh wait that was a T.V. show not real life. Fact is, as I stated before it's easy to resort to violence, blaming, pointing fingers at race, religion, etc. So stop shifting the blame, a crime was committed and should be investigated by the police, DA, etc. As for the demands that we leave Glendale as this now belongs to the Armenians is crap no-one owns anything it's just stuff we use for a while and then move on....unfortunately, some cannot move forward, we are in the USA so behave and leave all your other crap where it belongs. I am also a member of 24hr fittness in Gledale and I have observed similar incidents of intimidation especially in when the other group is larger in numbers. None so brave as those in a crowd.....

First thing is first. I am an Armenian. Second thing, many of the things you guys say Smelly, hairy, dishonest, rude, ignorent, and violent are true. But can you really tell me the difference between these people and any other people coming from eastern europe? I was born in Lebanon and immigrated here in 1978 when I was 7. I do not smell. I earned my undergrad at UC Santa Barbara and an MBA at USC. I earn a good living 100K+ and do it honestly. I support my family. All of my extended family who I hold dear (four aunts and two uncles) all of whom have two kids each, work hard, own homes, do not drive any car more expensive than a Toyota Camry and have educated children) Every armenian I associate with has graduated college in the US, is not on welfare, does not smell, is not involved in criminal activity. You guys have to understand the difference between the first generation of people who come here and the next. I'm sure one day Armenian ignorents such as yourselves (your not Armenian, just ignorent) will be complaining about the next generation of people who come here. By the way, one of the things I learned during my general education at UC Santa Barbara was immigration paterns of people who came here. Did you? I know its hard to deal with the old ladies at Costco. I know its hard to deal with the rudeness. But you know what, you just have to. I'm sorry you have the deal with change but without change you would just wither. By the way, the reason that America is what it is isn't because of you lazy non-ambitious "Americans". It is because of the "hungry" motivated ambitious people who come here and start a business and move our economy forward. Someone asked what has your culture done for us: How about this, the following people are at least half Armenian go figure it out...ignorent. Kirk Krikorian (Billionarie, owner of GM, almost bought Chrysler. Cher (last name is Sarkissian). Gwyn Stephani Andre Agasi William Saroyan (you might not know who he is but if you graduated high school, you probably would). I could go on but why you can find websites on it. Just type in famous Armenians. Last thing is last. Bitching doesn't change a thing. Do what you need to do to make yourselves happy but don't infringe on someone elses rights to do so. Flirt with whom you wish, but realize that flirting might have cost you something. I'm sure if Mr. McAdams was flirting with Joe White Guys wife in a bar, he might get a threat from Joe White Guy. Then I'm sure Joe White Guy would blame the bar. Best of luck to everyone, may you find happiness in whatever you do.

Attorney General Announces Health Club Sweep; Actions Taken Against Five Oregon Fitness Clubs FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE November 13, 2000 Attorney General Hardy Myers today announced a health club sweep that found four Oregon fitness clubs failing to include a number of mandatory cancellation and refund provisions in their membership contracts. "Tens of thousands of Oregonians have joined health clubs without being informed of their rights under the law," Myers said. "Consumers must be told of their obligations and refund rights under any health spa contract before agreeing to thousands of dollars in payments." Department of Justice investigators first looked at the health spa industry last year after receiving complaints against some of the 24 Hour Fitness clubs that refused to give prospective members copies of membership contracts as required by Oregon law. "Consumers have the right to request and take home a copy of any health club's membership contract in order to review the terms carefully before deciding whether to join the club," Myers said. Investigators found that 24 Hour Fitness was not complying with the Oregon health spa laws although it had promised compliance to the Courts in two separate settlement agreements filed in Marion County Court in December 1998 and in September 1999. Attorney General Myers filed a contempt lawsuit against 24 Hour Fitness in February 2000. The Courts approved a judgment in August 2000 finding 24 Hour Fitness in contempt of court. Contract problems with 24 Hour Fitness triggered investigations of the other four fitness facilities with investigators finding non-compliance in their written contract disclosures. Oregon's Health Spa law requires the following provisions to be included in health club membership contracts: Consumers may cancel their health spa contracts for any reason and receive full refunds if they write the business by midnight of the third business day after signing the contract. At anytime during the contract term, a consumer may cancel: 1) If the buyer dies or becomes physically unable to use a substantial portion of those health spa services used by the buyer from the date of the contract until the time of disability; 2) If the health spa goes out of business; 3) If the health spa moves its facility closest to the residence of the buyer on the date of the contract to a location more than five additional miles from that residence; 4) If a facility, construction or improvement is not completed by the date represented in the contract; 5) If the health spa materially changes the health spa services promised as part of the initial contract; When consumers cancel for any of the five reasons listed in the contract, the health club must provide a refund based on the calculation of dividing the contract price by the number of weeks in the contract term and multiplying the result by the number of weeks remaining in the contract term. Consumers are reminded that the Oregon Health Spa law applies to tanning salons and any business whose intended purpose is to assist consumers with physical exercise, weight control or figure development. Additional consumer information is available by calling the Attorney General's consumer hotline at (503) 378-4320 (Salem area only), (503) 229-5576 (Portland area only) or toll-free at 1-877-877-9392 or online at www.doj.state.or.us.

FULL DISCLOSURE: White male. Middle aged. Of German and Swedish descent. Lived in foreign countries (Greece, Turkey and Germany where we were the "ugly Americans) and in Florida (during the Cuban immigration of 1980) and So. CAL. Ron, I too was in Turkey... outside of Adana, half the way to Karatas. My roommate while in the USAF there was Armenian and the only way to know was because his name ended in "ian" and he told me. Other than that... he was completely "American." He served in the USAF for our country and he even served in Turkey though he could have declined the assignment... but he didn't want it on his record that he turned down an assignment. What is not to respect about that? Ron... under what circumstances did your ancestors come to this country? Which country did they come from? Why don't you hold them to the same standards and the same level of disgust for leaving their native land and comming here? I think I already know the answer to that. "Us versus Them." Each and every bigot and racist has his rationalizations all laid out as to why they are different than the others. Take a quick look at the history of relations of this country and the immigrants and you can take all the above mentioned statements and complaints and change the nationality... there is nothing new here. It has all been said before about the Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, Greeks, Irish, Jew,s Vietnamese, Hmong... it goes on and on and on. Yes, to all those proudly proclaiming the actions of Turkey, they murdered almost a million Armenians! For the sadistcally and irrationaly hateful people maybe you can feel better by laughing at the pictures of the stacked skulls. That is what we call "genocide" now days. Sadly, there are some that are so hateful that they applaud this. . To the woman who's sister was cut in the face, she has my sympathy... if she was cut in the face by a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) woman would you then hate all WASP's? I would hope so to make things as logical as it seems to you. To the "God fearing people" of the community... are you aware that the Christian Armenians were being slaughtered by the Mouslem Turks? However, they are "dark skinned" Christians so that doesn't count. Right? If these thoughts are your ideas of what Christ taught... then I am saddened beyond belief. I am also extremely grateful that we do have a separation between church and state... because your faith scares me! To the blonde haired blue eyed starlet... get over yourself... To bad you weren't raised in the south about 50 years ago... then all those dark skinned guys looking at you would have been strung up by the neck to protect your lilly white virtue. You must live in the today where we don't string up people for looking at white women. To the others... America is a nation of laws. If a person (regardless of nationality) violates the law then the should pay the consequences. That means if a person physically and verbally intimidates and makes threats (a finger across the throat is pretty clear) ... they they have broken the law. Color, race or what have you shouldn't enter into the picture. To fraud chick... encouraging a person to "be a man" and deal with assault and battery is two wrongs not making a right. There are laws and law enforcement that is paid to deal with this. Otherwise, it becomes simply "might makes right" and anyone that is larger or more powerful than you has the right to abuse you. Is that what you really want? I know that I will get a lot of responses about how I am wrong and that I just don't understand that these people are really really bad. That you all can justify your hatered so easly scares me. I am interested in hearing what an idiot I am... how I don't understand how these people are pulling America down into a cesspool, how I don't have to live with these people as neighbors...

Come on everybody, look at these hot armenian chicks. I want to suck their sweet n*%%les. I am a white guy and I love Armeninan girls. I want to suck their toes and tickle their butts. They're soooooooo Hooooooooooot...

i often attend the glendale sporting club and have seen that kind of once before.

i often attend the glendale sporting club and have seen that kind of once before.

i often attend the glendale sporting club and have seen that kind of once before.

i often attend the glendale sporting club and have seen that kind of once before.

The person who wrote this complaint obviously had an emotional encounter. It is also clearly apparent that he's a social retard who is unable to separate the encounter from the business entity at the same location. Here's a question Dean... How does your encounter with the Prom Queen & her crazy father relate to the endangerment of all who may want to join 24 Hour Fitness? Your incident is unfortunate, but the source of the problem is a father who was either misinformed or misunderstood his daughter, or he's just plain crazy. I bet you could have been at Food for Less and have the same encounter. Maybe that 24 Hour Fitness club didn't handle the reporting of the incident as best as they could have, but that's no reason to claim that the business is either at fault for the occurrence or that people are in danger if they join any of its clubs. Grow up Dean.

GYM's nowadays cost alot and charge a lot for thier fees especially if you're someone who's used to playing sports in high school and college and they don't charge you for gym, physical trainers, etc. So now you've grown and you need to pay for a gym membership. I've been to the GYM in question to scope out the place and see if I should join. I didn't join because the sales people want to much money (like most all gyms, you think that gym's bad try, the Bodies in motion in pasadena- bunch of muscle intimitading men trying to sign you up)and because of the layout. The pool area and sauna is downstairs. You need to take an elevator in your swimwear to get there because the changing rooms are on a different floor. The place is just way too big to monitor all areas. I didn't feel safe visiting the pool area because it's too remote from everything else. They should install video cameras there because they don't always have someone who works there down there. I'm female and sensed the unsafe layout in this area of the GYM and why should I pay when I won't feel comfortable/safe using ALL areas of the GYM. I found this article because I was considering joining the GYM again. This time I have a partner. After reading all this, I had to respond. This article turned into a hate speech thing because the original person who complained was labeling the people involved with adjectives under the blanket of a particular group of people, Armenains. According to the book Philosophical Problems with the Law, when a person tries to assert thier superiority by claiming that they are caucasian and then tries to shut up a minority, all this does is, "place all the credibility with the dominant group, strengthening the dominant story, and works to disempower minority groups by crippling the effectiveness of thier speech in rebuttal" (Delgado 237). Instead of stating straight facts re: party A and Party B, he's emotionally involed. I mean look at the title. He is using hate speech. Although the first ammendment awards freedom of speech, the 14th ammendment is about equality. Now there deffinately is different philosophical views on which way to go. One thing is certain, hate speech does not promote debate, it deeply injures dignity and does not promote other types of speech but hinders it. I believe many untruths have been printed in these rebuttals re: Armenians. Going into it is a waste of time. I must say that I am Armenian just because the blonde before me speaking of her dating life and acting career before me thought that there couldn't be an intelligent repsonse after her drama of a rebuttal. I usually don't state my ethnicity because it shouldn't be an issue but her you go. We are all humans trying to live in the same world, country, city. We have laws, that might I add, were and are made by what they say, the middle-class white male. People aren't all perfect nor are all people or laws moral. A lot of the hate speech regarding Armenians was too strong in the sense that it was the mentality that soldiers have in war, when they try to dehumanize and take away the dignity of thier enemy so they won't feel anything when they kill them. It's wrong because we should try to promote more of a deeper connection to other humans which is positive (to put in simple terms). Why doesn't everyone look inside themselves first before they start to point a finger?

So much Hate! While reading the responses to the situation in Glendalian, it brought memories from my time in Turkey. My,My,how hate can grow. A simple solution, and take this to Heart. When a people run away from their Homeland because they dont have the balls to fight for their beliefs and perhaps die defending their culture they should be on their knees 12 hours a day giving thanks when they come sniveling and scraping into the USA! Where is the pride in being armenian? Your a bunch of cowards who fled your country instead of fighting for freedoms you so greedily suck up when you find out how easy it is to teat suck off your host country. Macho? I think not. I've seen Macho and I know Macho. You poor slobs are full of sheep dung. If you did what you do here, back in your USA subsided stink hole of a country, YOU WOULD BE TORTURED AND SHOT! Yes your Females can be d**n good looking, til they hit 38-40, then they start looking like your old uncles, but the women,like the men are schemers and dreamers. Men and Women from all over the World have immigrated became citizens, fought and died to defend what makes America the SINGLE MOST WONDERFUL PLACE IN THE WORLD TO LIVE i.e. The Line coming in is far longer than the line going out. What have you done aside from being a burden to this Society? Yet your kind is hell bent on a false impression that you are a great race. C'mon wake up and smell the coffee! Since fleeing and running away from the place where you were born, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY? ASIDE FROM FLAUNTING YOUR PERSIAN "greatness". Lastly I offer this, Drop the false pretense and the attitude, take a shower, clean your pits, get an honest job and CONTRIBUTE. From one who knows your kind, Peace and Love Baby, Peace and Love. Till the Bullshit Starts. I welcome any INTELLIGENT rebuttals, But sadly, I doubt there are any out there.

Your life is not being threatened in any way in Glendale. What are you still doing in there? You should have moved out years ago. Stop paying $1,400 for a 2 bedroom. Didn't you smell the odors coming.;) Do you like the Armenians that "push and shove in supermarkets",the "odors", loud music, or the "hairy apes" When you get to many people of one race in one place this is what will happen. There are places in LA that you can get shot for being white or anyone having different color than theirs. You chose to live in Glendale, deal with it. Get to know the smelly people. ;) I am Armenian, born in Armenia and proud of it. I moved out of Glendale after I graduated GHS. I go often and have a great time but wouldn't live there. To many Armenians in one place is like Wild Wild West. Trouble, trouble, trouble. But it's cool thats what makes us different, makes us Armenian. Something we are very aware of and don't like it very much. My advice to you. Move out!!! I am sure you're much welcome somewhere else. Right? p.s. about those Turks, while you mentioned it. We got killed because of our religion and race. Tell me two reasons why whites killed whites during the civil war?

Your life is not being threatened in any way in Glendale. What are you still doing in there? You should have moved out years ago. Stop paying $1,400 for a 2 bedroom. Didn't you smell the odors coming.;) Do you like the Armenians that "push and shove in supermarkets",the "odors", loud music, or the "hairy apes" When you get to many people of one race in one place this is what will happen. There are places in LA that you can get shot for being white or anyone having different color than theirs. You chose to live in Glendale, deal with it. Get to know the smelly people. ;) I am Armenian, born in Armenia and proud of it. I moved out of Glendale after I graduated GHS. I go often and have a great time but wouldn't live there. To many Armenians in one place is like Wild Wild West. Trouble, trouble, trouble. But it's cool thats what makes us different, makes us Armenian. Something we are very aware of and don't like it very much. My advice to you. Move out!!! I am sure you're much welcome somewhere else. Right? p.s. about those Turks, while you mentioned it. We got killed because of our religion and race. Tell me two reasons why whites killed whites during the civil war?

To Hell With You Armenians I hate you Armenians. The other posters on this board are right. You evil welfare cheats are the destruction of this nation. As a white woman in her mid-twenties, working in the acting field, I am constantly harrassed by you camel jockeys who think you even have a slight chance with me. Get real! Just because I'm blond with acting ambitions, your kind think I should go out with you to further my movie career. What a nerve to think that some movie and television executives think they'll get into my pants just because I recognize them as certain top brass in movie companies. What you people don't realize is, I recognize you for what you are-ignorant, dishonest and filthy. What chance do you really think you'd have with me, I ask you again? What sickens me is the thought of any white girl lowering herself to even accept a date with one of you smelly Armenians. Who the hell do you think you are? It was an Armenian who ran over and killed my kid brother 10 years ago in Florida. It was and Armenian who stole my mothers credit card and ran up the bills so high, she now has totally ruined credit. It was an Armenian w***e who cut my sisters face with a scewdriver in the school yard last winter. Why do you think me and everybody else around me hates you people? Why do you think I agree with all these posters about the Armenians being evil? Why do you think everybody agrees with these posts? Why the hell do you think nobody at this web site has taken down any of the posts yet? I'll tell you why: it's because you know we all hate you. You know darn well we know what you're about. How can any decent girl in her right mind go out with an animal so hairy and doesn't wear deodorant? get a life. Go back to Armenia!

Hey you - That was my mother and aunt you were talking about! What are you mad about? You can't "steal" "free food samples" OK? So what they left a cart full of food at the checkout line, thats why they have employees, to put it all back. We are creating jobs for people by doing that. Since when is it a crime to speak Armeinan? I checked the laws and as far as I can tell, it is still legal here. We have our RIGHTS and you arent going to take them away from us. You give us welfare and sections 8 and food stamps and WIC and Medi-Cal - Screw you! It is free and we have as much right to it as you do, No - MORE RIGHT than you! We suffered under the Ottoman Empire and the Soviet Union. You didnt suffer at all - LAZY Americans! By the way - We are PROUD of our Smell - We smell GOOD - We dont have to hide our smell with soap and deoderant! Whay are you ashamed of? huh? I happen to find large eyebrows very sexy - You know what they say - "Giant Eyebrows, Giant p***s" - So there! You dont like it? Dont shop at Costco!

Ever since these Armenians first arrived in this once quiet conservative God-fearing city of Glendale, we've had nothing but trouble with these welfare-cheating third world parasites. I'm fed up with these "Armo's" racing up and down our streets with their fast cars playing their Arab music at disproportionate levels. This is not South Central Los Angeles. This is Glendale and these Armenains think they own this place. I beg you, I implore you never to take your car to an Armenian auto mechanic for any type of tune up or repairs. They will overcharge you and rip you off. It's in their genes to steal. They have no ethics or morals. I've lived here in Glendale for more than forty years and have watched this city slowly go downhil since these Armenians started arriving here. What Glendale needs is a civil war to help rid the city of these third world smelly mutants. And speaking of smelly, how come these "Armo's" never seem to wear any body deodorant? What's with them and their behavior of never bathing? How do they expect to fit into our clean environment if they don't ever take a shower? Cordially,

When either arraigned on criminal charges, or just caught red-handed with their hairy arms in the cookie jar, Armenians will be the first to tell you stealing and dishonesty is a way of life. What a crock! They justify their culture of theft by and dishonesty by defending Armenians who are here for the sole purpose of stealing from the government and everyone else around them. I was in Costco's last week, and witnessed two middle-aged one-eye browed Armenian women who went from free food sample stand to food sample stand, filling up their fat bellies while at the same time pretending to shop. Then, when they thought they had enough to eat, they walked to the check out line and left a half-filled shopping cart of items and walked out. I follwed tem outside and watched them both wait at the bus stop. I overheard these two wenches speaking Armenian. Their only intention was to go to Costco's and get free food. God, how I hate these Armenians for ruining this great country. I always make sure none of my kids associate with Armenian kids at school. I don't want any of my four kids to come home with bad habits that they learned from these filthy Armenians. Now I know why I love the Turkish people so much. Regards,

I am Armenian and PROUD. You White people are just JEALOUS of us since we can have any woman we want. Armenia was invaded by the Soviet Union so we had to leave our land and we have taken Glendale like the SOviets took our land and you White people took the Indians land. Screw all of you! This is OUR LAND NOW! Even the City of Los Angeles has given us Hollywood. Look at all the signs welcoming you to "LITTLE ARMENIA" as you enter Hollywood-- And those signs were put up by the City Of Los Angeles with City Money! Your Money! Ha Ha Ha! You dont like the laws? Change them! HA HA HA - GOD HAS BLESSED ARMENIANS - AND HE BLESSED US WITH GLENDALE! It is our turn now! If you arent Armenian - GET OUT OF GLENDALE! Leave - It is OURS Now! Ha Ha Ha - What you gonna do - PUSSYS? Nothing! Cause you know that Armenians are great warriors and this is our latest conquest! You lose - We Win - Get Over It!

No wonder the Turks were pissed off enough at these smelly Armenans to wanted to wage war against these third world parasites. The one down side about the great Ottoman Empire, is that they didn't completely wipe out all these filthy, smelly, hairy, one-eye browed Armo's who abuse our generous welfare system with such arrogance.

And it's because the Turks didn't do the job right at a time of war, now we're stuck with all these so-called "refugees" who think they have everything owed to them.

Christ, more than half of them who have invaded this great land aren't even supposed to be here in the first place. They come here illegally and display rudeness and ignorance.

I wish we had another Turkish uprising, only this time, let's have it here in Southern California.

Thank you.

I've read all these posts with great interest and can honestly say with an absolute impartial attitude, it's these filthy Armenians who happen to be the real immigration problem in Glendale, Hollywood and the rest of Southern California. Nobody else.

I have never in my life, known one race of people where it's considered the norm to be dishonest and to rip off the consumer without any conscience whatsoever.

You Armenians are evil. You are the only true parasites amongst many immigrant peoples who come here from other lands to work hard and seek their fortunes. You are the only ones who come to this great land to steal. And you do it very well. Your sole intention when getting off the plane (illegally) is to go sign up at the nearest welfare office.

You don't care about anyone but yourself. You have no culture. You have no upbringing, or manners. You push and shove us in supermarkets as a means to display your arrogance.

Back in the day, Glendale used to be a nice conservative quiet city until you third-world mutants moved in. I hate you filthy, smelly Armenians. Why don't you belive in deodorant? Why do you all smell so much? I cannot stand to even get close to these parasites.

I know someone who's an investigator in the LA County Welfare Fraud Investigation Unit and the horror stories he tells me about you Armenians who are so arrogant and rude when DEMANDINg your welfare, not asking, but demanding your free money from the state.

You Armenians think you're welcome here. Well, you're not. You Armenians think you contribute to the culture of our society. Well, you don't. If anything, you are looked upon with suspicion and curiosity.

Go back to where you came from. You are not welcome here.

What a CROCK - Just ask any insurance fraud investigator. Armenians are worse than Gypsies!

The biggest Medical fraud (8 BILLION DOLLARS) was perpatrated by a group of ARMENIANS - In fact, Mark Geragos (ARMENIAN - He took the 'ian' off his last name for business reasons) tried to claim in court that the defendants were singled out due to the fact they are ARMENIAN! - DENIED! Look at ARSON - The guy who got CAUGHT setting the wild fires in Los Angeles County was ARMENIAN from Glendale - HE was quoted by the the arresting officers as saying, "I did it for my people" - When he bailed out of jail ($150,000 bond - where did he get THAT money? He is SUPPOSEDLY unemployed) he was all beat up and accused the Sheriff Dept of beating him up in jail. He went to Channel 2 and he admitted ON TV that he said that! CHILD MOLESTING - There was this man caught ON TAPE in McDonalds - MOLESTING little BOYS - They charged him with 10 counts! OF course the news also reported he was UNEMPLOYED and a recent IMMIGRANT from ARMENIA! Do you see the stream here? VIOLENT CRIME, UNEMPLOYED, RECENT ARMENIAN IMMIGRANT! MURDER - A 14 year old boy was beaten to DEATH - so badly beaten that the coroner had to use dental records to ID him. The MURDERER? An ARMENIAN! Also - another MURDER at Hoover High School by a GANG OF ARMENIANS! All under 17 years old - The reason? They Armenians claim it was because the poor Mexican victim was talking to an ARMENIAN GIRL! Look at the NEWS - They are VICIOUS! Glendale has LOW crime for a city its size, take out the ARMENIAN problem and the crime rate would be ZERO! They are ALL on Welfare, Section 8, Food Stamps, SSI, and yet they all drive BMWs and SUVs (Black of course - so they can look 'tough') and work in the Jewelry District for CASH UNDER THE TABLE - Yet MORE FRAUD!

Send all those Cavemen BACK to ARMENIA -
IF ARMENIA IS SO GREAT? THEN WHY THE HELL DONT THEY GO BACK? -

I know now why the TURKS were so pissed off at them!

I made the mistake of moving to Glendale; after 3 months I moved the hell OUT! The ONLY people here who defend the Armenians DONT live in Glendale! Glendale used to be a nice clean city. Not anymore! Reagan let those Cave Dwellers come over here in the 80's and the whole city has gone to HELL! I have been threatened by Armenians yelling "Armenian Power" at traffic lights, in restaurants and in other public places. Anyone look at the CRIME in Glendale, and Im talking about VICIOUS crimes, murder, CHILD MOLESTING, arson and rape. 99% ARMENIANS! And let's not just talk about their animalistic caveman mentality, let's talk about their LACK of common personal hygene. Jesus - My son got a whiff of one's body odor in Costco on Los Feliz Blvd and I almost had to call 911 so the Fire Dept could give him oxygen. Holy Christ - But then again - they cant buy soap and deodorant or toilet paper with FOOD STAMPS so they dont bother! And since these ANIMALS come here as "Refugees" - We cant deport them! Just like the Cubans in Florida!

When I moved out of Glendalia, I was at the cable TV company and they were filling out a form as to why I was cancelling service. When I mentionsed I was moving out of Glendalia due to the Armenians, the 2 woman laughed outloud and said that is the most common reason people LEAVE Glendale! That is a QUOTE - Also just try to goto a park in Glendale! Forget it!

Dont believe me? - ASK ANYONE WHO LIVES IN OR USED TO LIVE IN GLENDALE!

GOD BLESS THE TURKS!

Partly in response to Kazanova - Glendale, California believe it or not I am a complete authority on the nature of Armenians.

This whole incident is based on Armenian men's aggressive insecure belief that their daughters are virgins and innocent.

What are my credentials to make comment?

I am an immigrant from Europe and have been dating an Armenian from Iran born in America for over 9 years.

I have been around these people with in these people, ate with them, had fights with them because they did want my Armenian girlfriend to date me (I'm still here!), been to weddings with them you name it I have done it with them.

Being from the outside and coming in puts me in a different perspective, where I was brought up in a strict military school where you were taught manners and respect for both women and men, I literately stepped into a noticeable world of abuse, violence and angry people.

Even after 9 years I find that Armenians from Armenia are the most ignorant demographic I have ever experienced in this world and I have been just about everywhere, they are so bad that I do everything I can to avoid them and their show off functions, I still cannot get used to their ways.

And yes I have had difficulties with my girlfriends nature and her families fake shows, but due to the fact she was born here and cannot stand the way Armenians act makes it easier for me.

Armenians are very angry people the original gentlemen that had the problem in the gym has done nothing wrong (married or not) that would not be normal in any other area, if that was lets say in Santa Monica and the girls was American or anything but Armenian nothing would have ever happened, other than some simple LEGAL flirting.

NO ONE deserves the crap scene that was dealt to him.

Armenians are very insecure people and generally do not think first, its all about their ego, go to the beach you will see them down there, they will be the only ones wearing jeans socks, shoes and shirts on the beach, why because it is not macho to catch a tan.

Armenian men screw everything in site when they can but expect their future Armenian only wife to be a virgin. The Armenian women know the men screw around but the men will call them a prostitute if the women screw just one man in their life before marriage, which off course the men spread around the community.

The man that attacked the gentleman at the gym was another insecure Armenian who thinks he was saving his what he believes to be virgin daughter for marriage, parents are violently strict on this, even more so the fact the gentleman was not Armenian.

What makes me most laugh about Armenian men's rules is the fact that most Armenian girls before marriage are NOT virgins, as I am not Armenian I have been privy to a lot of facts that Armenian men are not told, practically all Armenian girls play around before marriage, they find men outside of their culture and area and ALWAYS pretend they are virgins to Armenian men because their culture requires them to marry an Armenian and marry as a virgin. Most of these Armenian girls actually make fun of the guys with the usual sentence, ?who do they think they are, they screw women all over the place and expect us to be virgins for them? ?No Way? ?we just tell them we are virgins when it comes to marriage?

I know first hand of at least 8 weddings I have been to that the guy believed his wife was a virgin and there was no way in hell she was.

So my suggestion to the Armenian thugs and abusers if you want to carry on like this with your aggressive behavior take it back to Armenia where it belongs! to live in America is a privilege sort by many, do not abuse this great opportunity by bringing your disgusting behavior here with you, like they say when in Rome do as the Romans do.

This is America you are in now, show some respect and act human not like an APE!

I don't think anything about it is a racial issue. I think anyone who threatens anyone as in individual should be evaluated as an individual. Bringing race into the issue is a shot below the belt, and why does every black man go on and on and on and on and always bring racism against negroes into every discussion...

Black people in America have had 200 years to get educations, jobs and houses, clothing, cars and all that...some do, some don't and even though discrimination is alive and well, you should try going through life as a woman...

even black men are discriminating, patronizing and condescending to black women (as are white men to white women).

As a woman who has encountered excessive obstacles to moving forward throughout my lifetime from men, I could beat this horse to death too (as this Armenian issue has been beaten to death) but the reality is, this (Armenian) individual represents an American MAN (not a stereotype of a race) who functions on a base level, rational or not.

He is not an evolved person (not a race), but then again, I meet very sophisticated caucasians who wouldn't think of threatening a person outright, they just lie, steal and cheat people out of pensions, profit sharing with dishonesty...

We are just more sophistcated at getting what we want, but underneath the veneer, people are all the same, cultural diversity or not. I do agree that if someone comes here because their own country is intolerable and proceeds to assimilate into our system and then aggressively introduce the same degenerative thinking and philosophies that made their own culture unbearable, they should be expelled as traitors. That's about it.

I don't think anyone should have to accept or tolerate being threatened, by any other individual. It would not be tolerated from a white member, why should it be tolerated from any other member?

"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal except Negroes." When the Know Nothings get control, it will read, "All men are created equal except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty--to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, without the base alloy of hypocrisy." These were the brilliant words of Abraham Lincoln over 150 years ago.
By the way - "Know Nothings," nefarious "nativists" were under the cover of Americanism and preached anti-Irish and anti-German racism.

Yes racism still exists today as was evident with comments posted by many web sites. Their intolerance, insensitivity, ignorance of the facts, personal insecurities, and exaggerated fears springing from simplistic generalizations, provoke reactions and promote racism.

I'm here to defend Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Armenians, and all foreigners and immigrants. I'm here to assert that an American racist is an oxymoron. I'm here to distinguish fact from myth. I'm here to help guide some of you to open your hearts and let God's spirit permeate your souls to better tolerate and love one another.

Let's first start off by defining some words that are seldom used inaccurately.

American A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America. Also, (a person) of or from the continents of South or North America, esp. the US. An American is one who values the ideals that this country was based on and is display patriotism Minority A minority (or minority group) is also any small group in society that is different from the rest with reference to their race, religion or political beliefs.

Foreign - Belonging to another nation or country; alien; not of the country in which one resides; extraneous Immigrant - A person that removes into a country for the purpose of permanent residence.
Caucasian - the group of humans "loosely called the white race," (Mr. McAdams contrary to your statements since Armenia is in Transcaucasia, Armenians of course are quite Caucasian. You (presumably white) confused soul need to learn to use the word "white" accurately .

Report participants:
The only authors that stuck to the issue at hand without adding racist comments were Fraudchick, Baddaynumber365, and Juker. Bravo! I must confess most of you have great writing skills and are very articulate in expressing your thoughts but you are missing one big thing and that is the ability to wakeup, question, and think. Your hearts are blocked with such hatred and racism that you do not have much tolerance for minorities. I guess the only people that can escape your scrutiny are whites like you who have been here for a number of generations and resemble your definition of American i.e. No accent, dresses like you, and eats apple pie and hot dogs.

The word American racist is a oxymoron:
As I've said before America is melting pot and this is what makes us great. 200 years ago we had the Spaniards, English, French, Dutch, Mexicans, and the American Indians. Are we much different now with Mexicans, blacks, Chinese, Arabs, Jews and the Armenians. I do not think so. Back them we immigrated for freedom and opportunity just like the immigrants do today. Just like every state in the Union is an invaluable piece of this great nation so is every individual, race, culture, and nationality. Our drive, pursuit of liberty, and our diversity has allowed us to reach heights that no single nationality or race has been able to do. Look where we've gotten in a little over 200 years!

Stop focusing on the stats and open your hearts:
Okay the stats do show that blacks and Hispanics have a higher rate of arrests that whites but stats are very shortsighted. This is not an ethnic issue but an economic issue. One's color, race, nationality does not predispose them to crime. Also I noticed that a lot of you decided to bundle all minorities as one when it came to crime stats. Talk about a generalization!

We got to stop being paranoid from people that are different from us. Reach out, smile, show respect, and be friendly. You will be surprised what you get back. Stop being so arrogant that your culture is above everyone else's. Take a chance a break the ice. I've tested this theory over and over again with great success. I've bonded with blacks, Hispanics, all nationalities, and races. I'm not a sage but I just have not allowed racist thought to tarnish my heart. We are all one. The spirit of God is what is real and common amongst us. These people of the different color and ethnicity have suffered enough discrimination and prejudice. Be one of the few that will respect and value them and not prejudge them. You cannot even fathom what you'll get back in return.

You profess that whites have a higher intelligence than minorities. Which minorities do you mean exactly since a lot of minorities are also considered white/Caucasian? Finally Armenians might categorically be considered a minority in Glendale but not in Los Angeles? So what do you mean exactly? Do you see how making these grandiose statements could be a problem? Furthermore what is an IQ test anyway? How important is this really? How can you discount the works of geniuses such as Luis Armstrong and Charles, R. Drew. If you'd like to get a little flavor of great African-American contributions.

You also concluded that because of their lower IQs they end up living in huts with no food committing crimes. As I stated earlier all this is due to their economic status and not their color, race, or nationality. As far as affirmative action I, like many of you, am undecided. I can see the validity of both sides.

[email protected] - I do not agree with your comment that Armenians from Armenia are ignorant and further down on the food chain.
I resent this because some of my closest friends are Armenian from Armenia. Okay. I might agree with some of your observations though. that some of the Armenians seem to congregate and use the gym as a social setting. Some might even seem to act extremely macho. How is it any different that the other gyms that I've been to. In one gym it might be a group of Americans, In another Hispanics and yet another blacks. The slackers and the machismos are found everywhere. In this case you observed them as being Armenians. As far as machismo attitudes it's all around us. Just go to any sports bar and see. This is not an Armenian thing. It's a male thing. My suggestion is do not be intimated by the large numbers- get in there, meet them you'll quickly notice that they won't bite and you'll be able to make a half a dozen friends at once. As a person who's worked out for 20 years and worked out at gyms throughout the US, I can say I have yet to have a confrontation. Yes I also feel frustrated by people that want to use the gym to socialize so I stay away from the cheaper health clubs. The more professional and expensive the club the less socializers and machismos you get.

[email protected] - You crack me up!
You say that Armenian men mistreat and beat their women. I do not know where you get this nonsense. Armenians are dedicated to their faith and families. I know hundreds of Armenian families and this is not how the men behave. Your data is inaccurate and skewed. That's the best I can put it. You are right though that anyone that beats a woman is a coward!


Is the club at fault?
First I'll tell you my thoughts at the first when I read Mr. McAdam's complaint. Then I'll tell you what I found out when I went to the club and made some inquiries about the incident.

Whoever said to threaten someone's life and to run one's finger across their neck was grounds for membership revocation was right onI agree with this 100%. That's assuming the club had undeniable proof. What if the aggressor denied this accusation and had a different story? What would you do if you were Club management? Exactly, you would investigate the issue the best you can and if you were not sure who's fault it is you would drop it. Another option would be to revoke the membership of both parties. So the club did not absolutely nothing wrong with their decision.


I asked the manager about this incident and I was not the least bit surprised to hear a different story that what Mr. McAdams has led us to believe. Here is the scoop: The girl was not 25 she was 16! Second of all pervert Mr. McAdams was following this girl around from station to station not the other way around as he had indicated. She went to ride the cycle and he went on the cycle right behind her. She went to the sauna and he followed her. Yes the girl's father was irate and was screaming but never touched him or threatened his life. A number of members and workers reported this exact version of the story to the club management. Who would you believe?

Are Armenians a real danger to society as some of the above racists have implied?

This is furthest from the truth! Armenians are God fearing, family oriented, hard working people full of integrity. After reading what these racist above wrote, you would think Glendale is a very unsafe city full of dangerous troublemaking Armenians. This is so far from the truth. In fact, Glendale has one of the lowest crime rates in California and the nation as a whole and is considered one of the safest cities with a population over 150,000 in California. All this with a very large population of Armenians (over 25%). In fact, about half of Glendale's population is foreign born. So if I wanted to generalize I can say the "More foreign born the Less the Crime!" I can also say "the more Armenians the less the crime!" How do you like that!

As you can see a lot of this perceived dangers are in your heads. Wakeup and stop living a life of illusions. Open your hearts to other people and cultures.

Let's pray for peace in the Middleast. Let's pray for the children of Palestine, the children of Isreal, our children, and the children of the world.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Henry

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
Dear Mr. Abba

I think Fraud Chick is right about the spa incidant. The old dude dindt really hit anyone so he shouldnt get in trouble As a college educated black man who has done lots of resaerch I have more right to express my opnion about the race and crime stuff more than anyone.

Fraud Chick....even tho it deeply dissapoints me mr abbapees statisticals about crime are pretty acurate he may even have underestimated by putting 80% the actual numbers about minority jail pops is closer to 90% from my research I PARTIALY agree with the school exceptance stuff The standards for black admission is a little lower but not enough to make a stink
about. plus as a black man I donot like afirmitive action bc us black ppl will never know if we really got a job bc we earned it plus its unfair bc "some" white ppl will lose jobs they should gotten anyaway my point is fraud chich is right about the club incidant and abbapee is pretty right with the race statsisticals.

thanks and sorry for any mispelled words
not a good typer

henry (hank)

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Henry

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
Dear Mr. Abba

I think Fraud Chick is right about the spa incidant. The old dude dindt really hit anyone so he shouldnt get in trouble As a college educated black man who has done lots of resaerch I have more right to express my opnion about the race and crime stuff more than anyone.

Fraud Chick....even tho it deeply dissapoints me mr abbapees statisticals about crime are pretty acurate he may even have underestimated by putting 80% the actual numbers about minority jail pops is closer to 90% from my research I PARTIALY agree with the school exceptance stuff The standards for black admission is a little lower but not enough to make a stink
about. plus as a black man I donot like afirmitive action bc us black ppl will never know if we really got a job bc we earned it plus its unfair bc "some" white ppl will lose jobs they should gotten anyaway my point is fraud chich is right about the club incidant and abbapee is pretty right with the race statsisticals.

thanks and sorry for any mispelled words
not a good typer

henry (hank)

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Henry

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
Dear Mr. Abba

I think Fraud Chick is right about the spa incidant. The old dude dindt really hit anyone so he shouldnt get in trouble As a college educated black man who has done lots of resaerch I have more right to express my opnion about the race and crime stuff more than anyone.

Fraud Chick....even tho it deeply dissapoints me mr abbapees statisticals about crime are pretty acurate he may even have underestimated by putting 80% the actual numbers about minority jail pops is closer to 90% from my research I PARTIALY agree with the school exceptance stuff The standards for black admission is a little lower but not enough to make a stink
about. plus as a black man I donot like afirmitive action bc us black ppl will never know if we really got a job bc we earned it plus its unfair bc "some" white ppl will lose jobs they should gotten anyaway my point is fraud chich is right about the club incidant and abbapee is pretty right with the race statsisticals.

thanks and sorry for any mispelled words
not a good typer

henry (hank)

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Steve

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
This entire thread seems to call attention to more of a geographical issue than a corporate issue. The fact is that the City of Glendale is turning into a polarized community of Persian-born Armenians vs. everybody else.

To deny the existence of stereotypes is to deny the power of culture in one's upbringing. And generally, one can judge a culture by the way they treat the women. The high degree of spousal abuse incidents reported by the Persian-Armenian community speaks for itself. Anyone who hits a woman is a coward, and apparently a lot of Armenian men hit women.

While I have found Armenians to be very nice and very personable ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, collectively I observe a reality of incredibly rude women (probably bitter over the way they're treated) and men whose life's ambition is that one day, someone, somewhere, will think they're tough.

Now here's the problem -- Dean found himself in the middle of a
generational conflict. Armenian girls are Eastern European
(translation -- a lot of them are drop dead gorgeous) and we're attracted to them. And we look different from the men they're used to, and they know that, culturally, the majority of American men are raised to be respectful of women and would probably treat them much better, and they're attracted to us.

But in that culture, the one absolute NEVER DO sin is to date someone outside of the culture. The parents go ballistic at the very thought of it. I have no doubt that "Perky" (or should we call her "Perkyan") was flirting with Dean, and, married or not, he probably stole a glance at her butt. It doesn't matter where you get your appetitite as long as you eat at home. I don't know much about Dean physically, but I don't understand
why he didn't just flick Daddyan out of the way. And, what is
particularly appalling about this situation is that this coward probably went home and smacked the daughter around as well.

It is unfortunate that this particular club is in a cultural war zone. I understand that they're not paying club employees to be policemen, but rules are rules and must be enforced. The contract stipulates that this father's membership is subject to revocation and it should be revoked.

Finally, whether or not anyone laid hands on anyone else is not important. Actually striking or pushing the other person is battery -- the verbal threat is assault and against the law. Furthermore, continued threats fall under the category of terrorist threats, subjecting the individual uttering the threats to arrest.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Ben Juker

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
Sorry, Fraud Chick, like abbapee, i think you missed it a bit. First, you said there was no violence. The father said "I'm going to kill you", this is called 'uttering a death threat' and most jurisdiction recognise this as a punishable violent offence. Second, although there is no evidence he was flirting you imply that he was somehow at fault. This assumption is
unfortunate. You weren't there, and you have no evidence to support this allegation. Third, even if this guy was flirting with the girl, the actions of the father were way out of line. A reasonable response would be "stay away from my daughter", not "I'm going to kill you!". Finally, as I've said elsewhere, the mangament of the club is responsible for the activities of it's members while they are at the club. This has been
reinforced in law over and over. Management is responsible to maintain a safe atmosphere for their patrons, period. Failure to do this exposes the club to severe liability issues. Common sense dictates that they manage effectively simply because legitimate paying customers will go elsewhere if they don't.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Camy (Rose)

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
This is becoming quite a heated debate, so I might as well jump in the water while its warm.

1. In this country, the United States of America, the law dictates that every citizen has the right to live free from threat and harassment. That means that they have the right to travel from one place to the other without being threatened, battered, and most certainly, without being assaulted.

2. The Armenian father committed assault AND battery because he made a threat and he came into contact with the victim's body while doing so. The law is very specific about "fighting words and actions". Had the Armenian father said to the victim, "I am going to kill you", but he walked away, it would not have been assault because there was no following action to indicate that he meant to kill him. However, the Armenian father committed assault by making the threat and then battery by touching
the victim. According to the laws of this country, that makes him 100% guilty and deserving of the punishment that fits the crime. Not only that, but it also leaves him open to further scrutiny, should ill-fate meet the victim.

3. Mr. Armenian, regardless of his race, should have been punished for his crimes. If it just happens that minorities are punished for more crimes than the whites, there is a reason for it. Could it be that the FBI tells the truth, that more crimes are committed by the minority population. It's not fear that keeps me from delving into this topic deeply, but more a respect for my own time and a desire to not turn this into a race-war.

4. The lack of control by the club owner shows that he has little control for his club members. He is more interested in catering to the needs and desires of one particular population of people. I don't think there is a more simple way to put that one.

5. The victim was NOT wrong to go to the police. I agree that violence is a sign of mental weakness. Although the justice system is greatly marred in this country, the law says that the victim could have very easily become the criminal had he chosen to fight back. Even if the law didn't exist, it takes more mental strength to resolve things with words, than it does with violence. We are not cavemen here and we shouldn't act like we are. The Armenian father obviously knew enough about the English
language to make a threat. How come he couldn't resolve the problem using those language skills?

I am disgusted at the way the justice system and the public at large turn the victim into the criminal. Anymore, if a victim is raped, they say she caused it. Why should we be questioning the victim?? Yes, they may have done something to aggrevate the situation, but they certainly can't force a crime to happen!

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: trashlink

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
Great Club!!

IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!

What this complainer dealt with are what are called Armenians from Armenian normally further down the food chain in the Armenian culture and extremely ignorant.

Armenians from Iran or Persian you would never hear this crap and
leandathol mentality. ITS ALL SHOW to prove they are not gay in anyway and to be on a permanent quest to prove their man hood.

Glendale 24hr is not a fitness club its a club for Armenians from Armenia the idea with the club is that they congregate around the only weights in the gym expressing their manliness and exposing there stringy arms through a rolled up tee shirt while hogging the only weights in the gym off course none of them are using the weights.

If you ask if any one is using the weights you get a look of disgust and uncertainty from these mighty warriors.

It use to piss me off no end that people would be scared to use the weights at this gym because a bunch of deep voiced Armenians would congregate around the weights, and you guys call this a gym BULLSHIT!

And before I receive your manly added deep voice Armenian reply no one would dare back mouth me in the gym so don't bother now you are all show and only know how to fight in a group.

The gym is responsible for the safety of its members who are paying to frequent the establishment your best bet is to contact the corporate office who's goal is to make money and not to provide a club for idiots to frighten of its paying members.

They filed the following to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: The Fraud Chick

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I'm not offended at all, I welcome different opinions and yours seem well thought out.

Here's the central issue, there was NO violence. There was no blows, only (according to McAddams) an implied gesture. Touching another person can constitute battery, but we all have to pick our battles. He touched him with his finger-he did not punch him. Sticks and stones and all the rest. Also, surely you don't expect the little "perky" girl to take on a man.

When I advised McAddams to handle his own problems I meant that he should leave the health club out of it. McAddams and the girl's father got themselves into the fix. The health club is in the business of providing exercise equipment and space to work out, not disputes between too hot heads. I think it is petty that McAddams should slam the club for not taking his side. He wanted the club to punish the other man, how could
they do that unless they witnessed it? It would invite a lawsuit from the other man.

McAddams was simply embarrassed.

As for race and crime-I will not address that. To each his own. Let it suffice to say that I don't agree with your views on that. I don't need to go to the FBI web page, I review the UCR each year-I don't see any of the trends you mentioned.

Thanks for the two cents.

The more the merrier!

The Fraud Chick

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: abbapee

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:

Fraud chick, I have read a lot of your rebuttals, and I usually agree. Unfortunately however, even though I always respect your opinion, I believe that you are wrong in this matter. I am also pretty sure that my thoughts will be somewhat offensive to you.

No matter what Mr. McAddams may or may not have done, perky's father had no right to lay his hands on Mr. McAdams. The father committed assault the second he touched Mr. McAddams, and therefore, should be prosecuted, and banned from the club. You said Mr. McAdams needed to fight his own battle, but if that is the case, the same should be true for Perky. There can not be a double standard. Perky ran to daddy, and daddy subsequently
committed a crime. How is that handling your own problems?? If Mcaddams did something so awful, why didn't Perky and her father call law enforcement? McAddams did the right thing avoiding a physical conflict by calling in the police & the management team to sort it out.

Physical confrontation is a sign of low class, and low intelligence. Also, it is impossible to say whether Perky was the one who started something or whether Mcaddams did. So, it is totally possible that McAddam's statement is a completely accurate account of what really happened that day.

On "occasion", women have been known to make unwanted passes for the purpose of monetary gain, and that may the reason for Perky's interest in McAddams. We will probably never know exactly what happened, but resulting to violence was certainly not the solution. Again, the father should be charged with assault, and banned from the club, if he did in fact touch McAdams in any way.

Kazanova, as far as Mr. McAddams references to the fearing of minorities go, he has a very good point. Even though I agree that there are good and bad people from every race and religion, the majority of the trouble in the U.S. is caused my minorities. I disagree with the statement "the U.S. is a melting pot, and that is what makes us strong".

The U.S is a melting pot, but I believe that is our downfall, and it will ultimately lead to the demise of our country. I am not sure what the solution is but I do know that the whole melting pot idea is failing miserably. Most minorities have shown over the past decades that they are a drain on our economy and our legal system. Minorities make up only a small percentage of the U.S. population, however they make up over 80% of the U.S. prison population, and over 80% of welfare recipients in the U.S. are minorities as well.

This is unfortunate, but true nonetheless. Please refer to the FBI website to verify these stats. I would also like to add that the Perky girl may not have even been a U.S. citizen. It is really sad when people come to this country only to work and send money home, all the while making derogatory statements about us and causing trouble while they are here. Immigrants today are different from those of the past.

Today's immigrants/illegal aliens do not come to the U.S. and cherish the opportunity as they used to. They come here to use us all too often, however, I will agree that this is NOT always true. I think it is clear that all of the races are very different, and the Sept 11th attacks, along with all of the other terrorist acts as well as the current crime stats
prove that.

When terrorism occurs, Arabs or people of the Islamic faith always seem to be the ones behind this type of hateful and destructive activity. There are major differences between cultures, and some cultures are superior to others, we just have to learn to accept, and acknowledge that.

If Arabs and Africans were equal to whites, at least as far as
intelligence goes, how come so many people from those worldwide minority groups are hungry & living in huts, while most whites live in decent homes, and eat well? Also, why is the average white IQ significantly higher than the average minority IQ? It is because we are different, and have different levels of intelligence overall, with very few exceptions.

I believe the lower level of minority intelligence is the reason for the higher levels of minority crime, and many studies have shown that. I am not a hateful person, and I always give everyone a chance, but it just seems that every time something bad happens, at least in my area, it is caused by a minority. Past generations of white people did some very bad things to minorities, but that is in the past and the problem has been
rectified as best as possible.

Now, it seems the minority population has much more leeway, and many more rights than whites do, an this is very unfair. Blacks, and other minorities can make bad statements or jokes
about whites on TV and all is fine, but if a white does the same they are labeled a racist. Also, minorities have special college funds set of for them to go to college for free or at least for cheap. Meanwhile, I will up to about 150,000 in debt by the time I am done.

Finally, we are in the U.S. and Mcaddams is a citizen. That gives him the right to state his opinion no matter what. No person has the right to hit, punish, or strip another person of their life/liberty without out due process. Mr. McAdams was wronged, and the father should be charged with a crime, assuming he actually hit McAdams. Also, if McAdam's story is accurate, and the health club does not take immediate action against the
father, they should be sued as they are in breach of contract.

I am not a racist in anyway, I just recognize our differences. If anyone in this matter is a racist, I think it is the Armenian father.

This is just my opinion, and even if you do not agree, I hope you at least respect my right to express it.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Kazanova

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
[email protected] said it all. I do not think anyone could of expressed it better. Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth! As far a Mr. McAdams, I think he is a bit dillusionary and paranoid about the threat diferent ethnicities might pose to him and the public at large. He is obviously a racist and the same scrutinity he has towards Armenians he probably has against
Hispanics, Blacks, Asians, etc. This lawyer wanna-be hasn't realized that this great country we live in is a melting pot and what a true blessing this is.

Our diversity makes us great. I'm sure there are lots of degenerates in all nationalities, ethnicities, and colors. Let's stop focusing on the degenrates and Let's reach out to one another and appreciate each other for our differences. let's not do what so many like Mr. McAdams do which is to cross out a whole race, etnicity, nationality
because of a few bad experiences or what we see on TV. That's racism!

The blacks I know are loving, passionate, kind people, who are full of life The Asians I know are wonderful, gentle, hard working people people. The Hispanics I know are generous, family oriented,God loving, affectionate people The Armenians I know are hospitable, repectable, sweet people full of integrity
The Arabs I know are warm, sensitive,giving people.
Shall I go on?

Let's focus on the positives and when you see someone that's of different ethnicity, race, or nationality do not let your fearful hateful thoughts take over. Think of them as just another human being. Reach out and talk to them, smile at them, show them that you respect and appreciate them, and you will be surprised by what you get back. Live life don't live in
your illusions. Wakeup!

This email is a rebuttal to RipOff #6286.
It was sent by Fraud Chick at [email protected].

DO NOT JOIN 24 HOUR FITNESS OR 24 HOUR FITNESS SPORT CLUBS OR YOU COULD GET KILLED! (#6286)

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Fraud Chick

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I almost breezed past this complaint but it actually made me laugh out loud. I haven't guffawed like that in years....thanks.

What happened between you (Dean) and the "perky" Armenian girl will only be known by you and her...end of discussion. I noticed how you were sure to mention your terrific marriage and super duper dinner engagement you had...who cares? Gary Condit has a terrific marriage too.

The point is is that you engaged the perky one in some sort of encounter. Innocuous to you? Maybe. You were flirting...why else would you say aloud "Where is the girl in the orange swimsuit who is trailing me?" THAT...is flirting. You wanted her to follow you and she did. Innocuous to her? Obviously not. Whatever she told her father it infuriated him.

Something must have happened for you to have "something" to apologize to him about. Innocuous or not. You'd think people would have learned something after watching Fatal Attraction.

I laughed out loud because I envisioned you "whining" to the manager. Man enough to flirt with a 25 year old, but when dad comes along and embarrasses you in front of people you slink over to management and try to get him into big..Big...BIG trouble.

What do you want the health club to do, settle your fights for you? Should they expell him? What about you? You offended the perky one...shouldn't they revoke your membership? Their hands are tied.

You keep saying you work at a nearby law firm. That's slippery.
Obviously you want people to think you're a lawyer..are you? Or are you a paralegal, a secretary, a private investigator or cleaning man.

My advice:

Leave the perky ones alone unless you are able to take the heat from fathers, brothers, boyfriends or husbands without running to mommy to wipe your nose and brush away your tears.

Get on with your life. Suck it up and chalk it up as a learning
experience.

Good Luck

PS Thanks again for the laugh.