Jim
Ellisville,#2Consumer Comment
Tue, September 24, 2013
I read with interest one of the very long complaints from a former Sanford Brown College student. She had many complaints, some of which I am sure were legitimate. I taught a few courses at this school some years ago and I can see both sides to this problem. The former student was upset because she felt that the school lied to her, didn't help her get a good job, etc, etc.
Here is my view: First: Many if not most of the students I had, were not employable due to a number of issues, including: They were close to illiterate, had big problems with the basics such as grammar, and writing legibly, being able to pronounce medical terms correctly, and being alert and focused. I also had rampant cheating on quizes, and even had students sleeping during class.
On the other side, I found the administrators of the school inadequate and inexperienced in school administration. I was not aware of many poorly trained instructors as this complainant stated...many were degreed people in the fields they taught, many were in fact, college instructors, some were doctors of various types.
I think the big problems at this college were the students. Of all the students I taught, I would not have hired more than maybe 5 % of them, because they would not have been able to do the job or represent my office in a professional way.
Note that this person who is complaining doesn't know where to separate paragraphs and uses punctuation very poorly.
My last comment about the college: Too expensive, too few jobs, hard to transfer credits to real colleges !
Bulldog67
CVdfewrsfs,#3Consumer Comment
Thu, September 19, 2013
Dear Mother of Two, I read your laments over the mistreatment and poor quality of education you received at Sanford Brown. Knowing that your possibilities for getting a good paying job are almost non-existent why did yu end up getting pregnant? There are quite a few ways to prevent that from happening. You sound as if you have at least, if not above, average intelllgence. Moving on. Not to throw another obstacle your way, but forewarned is forearmed, beware of loan facilities throughout the educational arenas. Unknown to most people, an educational loan never disappears. It stays with you until it is paid off. Notice how accomodating they are about you paying it? It is to their advantage for you to take time. All the while your taking time to pay it, it is increasing due to interest! Something to think about.
Sanford Brown is a joke waste of ti
Coulterville,#4Consumer Comment
Thu, August 18, 2011
Thank you so much for the information given. Since I have been laughed at and told "we don't hire from Sanford Brown" because we feel that the students are not well trained. Is there anyway since I know everyone is having financial problems that my loan can be forgave? since I just have a piece of paper stating that I did what was required of me to finish this class. I wrote before it is so difficult without this huge debt hanging over my head, and I have to take the medication in order to survive, and without health insurance it is so expensive to add a $300 + loan payment on top of that, I can't do it. That place promised me either a job after my externship or they would place me somewhere to work and nothing has happened. Is there any other advice you could give me please!!
Jeanski
Buffalo,#5Consumer Comment
Wed, August 17, 2011
The very first thing you should do is contact your lender probably Sallie Mae. Go to the Department of Education website and follow the links for student loans. There will be a section on repaying your student loans and what your options are. If your financial situation is that dire theyll approve a forbearance and give you time to get on your feet before paying them back. The paperwork is simple. Youll also want to make sure you have copies of everything you signed (on paper or electronically) to ensure that Sanford Brown didnt approve loans for you without your knowledge. If they forged your name on anything youll have a strong position to take legal action against them. Youll specifically want to look for the Master Promissory Note you would have had to sign promising to pay the loans back.
The second thing you should do, along with anyone else reading this, is to utilize those social networks everyone is tuned in to Facebook, twitter, etc., and get the word out. Once potential students are informed about the unscrupulous tactics used by these schools, the schools should see a nice drop in enrollment. Since all they care about is money, this will get them where it hurts.
Third, send letters to the Department of Education, Sallie Mae, the accrediting bodies, newspapers, TV stations, and your state representatives and Attorney General, giving them the details of how these schools are ripping students off. With enough complaints they can take some action. They wont respond to just an individual students complaint, but a huge stack of them should get their attention. Thats where those social networking sites come in handy.
Last, search for other lawsuits about Sanford Brown and see if you can join in on a class action suit somewhere. Contact the attorneys and tell your story.
I wish you and OP good luck in getting this resolved in your favor. If you need more help just respond to this post.
Sanford Brown is a joke waste of ti
Coulterville,#6Consumer Comment
Tue, August 16, 2011
I have been scammed big time by this "school." Please help me too. I graduated in Oct 2010 and have sent out about 300+ resumes but no one trusts the students that went to this school are educated enough to give them a job, if my parents weren't here I'd be homeless. Please help me too this is not fair what this school is doing and I have close to $28,000.00 in debt and don't know who to contact to help me and can't pay for this when almost $300.00 a month is due. I'm on medication and without health insurance it is really expensive if my parents wouldn't help me out I don't know what I would do. I really need someone to send me some information on help with this situation. Please!!
Jeanski
Hamburg,#7Consumer Suggestion
Fri, March 19, 2010
I'm glad my advice helped, even if just a little. One thing you wrote in the response concerns me:
"One former student even said that they took his GI bill money, pocketed it, and took out student loans in his name for the full amount/cost of his chosen degree program and he was stuck with owing all this money...and other students reported they were doing the same with their financial aid/pell grant money, and that they didn't discover what they had done to them until after they graduated and collection agencies were calling them right away as soon as they graduated from the college."
In case you don't understand the process (or to benefit other readers) here's how financial aid works: student fills out the FAFSA and any institutional forms required. The school receives the FAFSA and uses it to determine the student's EFC (Expected Family Contribution). If a student sends the FAFSA to ten different schools, the EFC could be ten different amounts because it's based on tution and fees, cost of living for that area, etc. The EFC determines how much Pell Grant (or state grants) the student is entitled to. Anything awarded in excess of tuition is sent to the sent, but otherwise it's usually directly credited to the student's account. Then institutional funds are applied. I don't think any of the for-profit schools offer these, but I could be wrong. For traditional schools, this would include academic and athletic scholarships, fellowships, etc., that are specific to that school. THEN comes the loans. The school cannot legally take out student loans in anyone's name. In order for a student to get a loan, the student must sign a MPN (Master Promissory Note) that describes their responsibility and acceptance of the loan funds. Typically, the loan money is sent directly to the school every semester. The student should be able to request a refund of any excess loan money in his account, but most carry it over to the next semester. At some point in this process the school should send something called an Award Letter that tells the student what the EFC was, what grants and institutional funds were awarded, and what loans were approved. The student typically says, "OK, I'll take the grants and scholarship, and only $xxx of the loan". Or, if the student needs the loan funds for something else, they can request the full loan amount they're entitled to. Either way, they have to sign the Award Letter and acknowledge they understand what they're getting. Since the FAFSA is good for the entire academic school year, the award letter may describe the funds awarded for each semester. I think this is where a lot of students are running into problems. I suspect that Kaplan and other schools send out award letters that cover the entire year. The student signs for it, but then either doesn't finish the semester, or doesn't enroll for the second semester. Or, maybe they didn't enroll, but the advisor did it for them and the student wasn't aware of it. Then, the student is still responsible for the loans. But they may be able to make a case against the advisor/school if they didn't authorize the registration.
Insofar as VA is concerned, there are two chapters (types) of GI Bill that are sent directly to the school - Vocational Rehabilitation, and Post-9/11. This process is clearly described to the student so there shouldn't be any surprises about where the money went. Otherwise, the funds are sent directly to the student. So your friend may be able to make a case to the VA if his funds were misused under one of the other Chapters.
Hope this helps you, or other students, who are trying to make their way through a complicated process!
Mother of Two-2009
Carbondale,#8Author of original report
Thu, March 18, 2010
Thank you so much for such a positive response!!! you're comment was the most honest, respectful response I have seen in a while on here, not to mention quite helpful and informative. Yeah, I originally wrote this in response to another woman's report on this site about her experience about the Sanford Brown college she went to in White Plains, New York, but I couldn't get the site to submit my comment response to her article and for some reason the site was having technical difficulties at the time, so I just submitted my own article instead since it took me so long to write the d**n thing...i know...it was quite long.
But I actually did some very extended research after I posted this article on this corporation and these schools, and ALL over the web there is so much bad press about them, and almost every other student made the same complaints. I also discovered they have many different federal investigations going against them from agencies for so many different types of fraud/scams they have been committing against so many students. One person who did an actual investigation against them and served them papers stating they had a federal investigation launched against them, said that she discovered that they were taking their students names, social security numbers and personal information and selling it to other company scams just like them without the student's permission or without their knowledge. She also found that they change names of their schools everytime they get in trouble with lawsuits and because of all this stuff they do to students, and everytime they begin to get a bad reputation/name, they change the name of the schools and get rid of the old name that has the bad rep. There are complaints from other students from other schools across the country who had teachers who acted and treated them in the same ways the ones I spoke of were treating me and my classmates...totally unprofessional acting and undereducated/underqualified. There are even teachers writing comments in response to former students complaints just totally degrading them and bashing them online on different websites all over the internet!!! It totally shows you just how ignorant and unprofessional these teachers really are, and they are SO stupid for putting it up on the web for everyone to see...it proves that what students are saying about them is true!!!! And there are several former students that complained financial aid was doing fraudulent things to them as well. One former student even said that they took his GI bill money, pocketed it, and took out student loans in his name for the full amount/cost of his chosen degree program and he was stuck with owing all this money...and other students reported they were doing the same with their financial aid/pell grant money, and that they didn't discover what they had done to them until after they graduated and collection agencies were calling them right away as soon as they graduated from the college. So now it leaves me wondering if I was a victim of this myself without even knowing it, and I realized that i have a lot of phone calls and investigating to do in order to get to the bottom of my own situation with them. I could go on and on forever about what I read because there is so much more that I discovered about them that I didn't know before, and couldn't believe there was so much stuff that was going on, more than you could even fathom. If you google them and do the research, you will see for yourself just exactly what I am talking about...but there is just way too much to even try to begin to put it all down in this little comment response!!!!
I just do not understand how they have been getting away with it for so long and not been permanently shut down by now. Because supposedly what they do is supposed to be against the law and is considered fraud. I read so many reports from people that were former students that were in past lawsuits against them that sued for the same reasons or for reasons that were similar to what I had happen to me, and they were settled out of court and won by the students. There are several suits currently pending against Sanford Brown and/or CEC owned schools right now across this country. I am sure once I get enough information collected and thoroughly research on what I need to do for ME personally to build a case for myself, it won't be hard to find a lawyer and get something started for myself. I already found names and numbers of lawyers currently taking former students in as clients for class action suits they are planning to open up against these companies, which I found by doing long and extensive research on the internet after I posted this article. So yes, there are lawsuits going on, and I found out it is possible to fight to get justice for what they did to me and possibly my money back. It's going to take a lot of time and work, but it's worth it in my eyes to try. And I say "try" because I believe that just because other students filed lawsuits and won, doesn't mean it is guaranteed that the same thing will happen to me, so if there are former students out there reading this, please remember just that when you do decide to try and take legal action against them...that it is not guaranteed 100% you will win just because someone else did. But for me it will be worth a try and worth my time to see what can be done for me personally. I hope something can be done because I don't feel I should have to pay over $30,000.00 for a degree that is worthless.
But you are right, if I am stuck with the loan and there's nothing I can do, then I have to live with it. And I wish I would of done more thorough research before jumping right into things and going to that school. But you live and you learn, right???
There is also a report that was done by "60 minutes" on CEC corporation and all of the scamming and it aired on t.v. The report that was done in St. Louis in 2008 was done by News Channel 5, KSDK, St. Louis, MO. You can google it, of course.
But you are so right about doing extensive research before you go to a school, and community college is always the best choice for a trade degree/certificate if that's what you are looking to go to school for, and I know that now. It is best to avoid trade schools period, unless you know for a fact they are regionally accredited, just like you said. Thank you so much for your input, it was very helpful, and very positive, and I really appreciate you taking the time out to read my article and respond with such helpful information!!!! Thanks again!!!!
Jeanski
Hamburg,#9Consumer Suggestion
Wed, March 17, 2010
Your story is one that I read about often on ROR. I have been in higher education all my adult life and it never fails to amaze me that students are so easily misled (and blatantly lied to) by admissions personnel. Unfortunately, this is another case of not asking the right questions because "you don't know what you don't know". This is not to say I blame you for the mess you're in - obviously you're a victim of unscrupulous recruiting. So one possible solution you might try is to file a formal complaint with the accrediting agency for SB. I couldn't find their listing for the St. Louis Campus, but their national accreditation is through ACCSC (Accrediting Commission for Career Colleges and Schools). Their website is www.accsc.org. On the left side of the home page you'll find a link to the accreditation guidelines. You'll need to reference that in order to make your complaint as specific to the guidelines as possible. There is also a complaint form that they provide. I seriously doubt a lawsuit will be a solution because you can't prove they broke the law - only that they acted in an unscrupulous manner. You might be able to make a case for fraud, but I doubt it.
Another recommendation I would make is to take as many CLEP exams as possible to test out of your general ed classes. These are usually available at the local community college. They cost about $50.00 but give you a lot of credit for courses you've already taken. And they're accepted by every college.
For other potential college students reading this - take heed and do your research. Make sure that your school is REGIONALLY accredited. Insofar as transferring credit from one school to the next, NO school can make the promise that their credits will transfer unless they have an articulation agreement with the receiving school. This is common between state community colleges and their university counterparts. If you don't get it in writing, don't believe it. That goes for the receiving school as well. If you talk to an admissions advisor, get it in writing which credits will transfer. That gives you more ammunition later if something goes wrong.
As for the student loans, you can contact the Department of Education and the owner of your loans and request a deferment or forebearance if you're unable to make your payments. It's easy to do and won't ding your credit. But you're stuck with them.
Students - PLEASE check with your local community college before signing on with one of the online for-profit schools. Most community colleges have online programs and/or special programs for the nontraditional (i.e., working) adult. They are generally far cheaper than the for-profit schools, their credits are more likely to transfer, and you'll get a better education. Generally speaking faculty in the community college system must have a Master's degree in the subject area. Faculty in a program accredited by ACCSC only need "experience". That's why their credits won't transfer. The receiving school needs some assurance that your education was provided in a manner consistent with what the community college would offer.
I hope this helped a little. Good luck!